Where are the men?

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remind remind's picture
Where are the men?

 

remind remind's picture

quote:


...Throughout the city, single mothers are raising children on little money, often in public housing where kids are exposed to greater risks, because it's all they can afford. Too often, they live with fear and violence.

... It's brutally clear that single mothers raising children in low-income housing in Toronto live in a far more violent world than denizens of Riverdale, Forest Hill, the Annex, Leaside or other leafy domains in the city and environs.

In this world, Bowen says youths join gangs and "don't think they'll live beyond 25. They expect to die."

As a child in public housing, Fearon regularly witnessed people snorting cocaine in the courtyard and once even saw a person being stabbed to death in a pool of blood at her front door. "It looked like something a child shouldn't be growing up in – like a war zone."


[url=http://www.thestar.com/News/article/247737]http://www.thestar.com/News/a...

Michael Hardner

People seem to be smoking cocaine in public now in downtown Toronto. It's pretty depressing.

Fidel

This is the product of North American capitalism. Canada's non-elected corporate leaders influence our elected stooges who are leading us down the path to Americanization and full spectrum submission to an imperialism far more pervasive than the Soviet system ever achieved. Joie de vivre is lacking for too many in this Northern Puerto Rico.

AfroHealer

Lets not forget the system that penalises parents for staying together. Some peeps on welfare are not allowed to have a partner living with them. or are are financially penalized if they do.

kropotkin1951

So the point of this story is that black men are bad??

It read like racist drivel to me not feminist insight.

quote:

It's brutally clear that single mothers raising children in low-income housing in Toronto live in a far more violent world than denizens of Riverdale, Forest Hill, the Annex, Leaside or other leafy domains in the city and environs.

Not at all like the white dead beat dads eh.

Erik Redburn

quote:


Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
[b]People seem to be smoking cocaine in public now in downtown Toronto. It's pretty depressing.[/b]

I'l say, heard the city hasn't been the same since they shut down all the crack houses. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

JayPotts

quote:


Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]So the point of this story is that black men are bad??

It read like racist drivel to me not feminist insight.

Not at all like the white dead beat dads eh.[/b]


Amen to this post. Took the words right out of my mouth.

N.R.KISSED

that is truly appalling, poverty and violence are due to failures on the part of the black community, be it families, mothers or fathers. This article and the previous one are so steeped in bootstrap psychobabble. It is unfortunate that those who were interviewed internalized assumptions of self blame.

Michelle

I was thinking something similar while reading the article. There are just as many white deadbeat parents out there. The fact that many of the women living in poverty in subsidized housing are black doesn't mean that black men are more likely to be deadbeats - it means that women of colour experience more racism than white women when it comes to housing and employment, and therefore black single mothers have a better chance of living in poverty than white single mothers.

1234567

My deadbeat ex is a rich guy. He made me poor by trying to take my kids away for over 20 years. He never succeeded in getting them taken away, but he did succeed in ensuring that I lived sparsely. I spent over $30,000 in lawyers fees. I have to work on not being bitter every single second of my life otherwise he wins.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

I know at least one deadbeat dad. He's a crackhead so I keep my distance. He works under the radar and lives in a busted-down hotel on Last Chance Avenue. In a miserable effort to avoid supporting his children he's managed to ruin his own life. It's just one thing after another. God knows how long he will live. I manage to bestow some kindness on his miserable life once a year around Christmas-time.

Michelle

Also, I love how the article keeps pushing the whole "three kids by three different fathers" angle.

Well gee. Sometimes divorce or the end of cohabitation happens. To, like, half of marriages and probably more common-law relationships! And sometimes remarriages happen. Or new common-law relationships. And new kids come along!

I'm soon to be divorced (separated for over 6 years) and have one kid. If I were ever have another one, it would be with a different guy! But I guess because I'm a white woman, in my case it'll be called a "blended family" rather than "mother of two kids with two different fathers." Because I don't live in public housing, and I'm white, so it's okay for me to have more than one relationship and sleep with more than one guy during my 30 or so fertile years.

The woman I most leaned on at the time of my separation was a single mother who lived in the same building as me. She is Black and has two kids, 6 years apart in age. She would constantly have well-meaning people from church and school and everywhere else ask her whether her kids had the same father.

I don't know too many white women with more than one child who have been asked that.

Stargazer

It's horrible the way black women are treated because they live in housing and may have more than one kid, but I can assure you, white woman suffer too from the stigma of having more than 1 child and in particular more than 1 child from different fathers. Black women have the added stigma of their colour of course, but this is really a class issue. I was brought up in housing until I was 15 years old. I lived in housing for 2 years as a single parent. The abuse we get treated to is horrible and it comes from all angles - the schools, the parents of the other kids, the society outside our walls.

I can tell you, not many of us, white or black, had the father's child to rely on in any way. Beg, plead for money for food or clothing, or just simply ask that the father spend time with his child. It is an endless source of misery because the women raise these kids, the men screw off, and the women are blamed for how the kids grow up.

It always amazed me how people dump on single female parents as somehow being the scrounge of society (and raising 'criminal' kids) while completely ignoring the fact that maybe, just maybe if the fathers bothered to care, the kids wouldn't be in this position.

Guys get a pass on this all the time. It is time the media and social researchers etc paid attention to the impact of an AWOL father on the kids and stopped blaming the moms who try their hardest.

Slider

Condoms work. No love without the glove. Don the dome. And so forth......

Personally I always use a rubber. Some guys even use 2, cause they say it helps them to last longer.

1234567

quote:


Condoms work. No love without the glove. Don the dome. And so forth......
Personally I always use a rubber. Some guys even use 2, cause they say it helps them to last longer.


WTF?

Michelle

Uh, yeah. Hey Slider, how be you not post in this thread anymore. This is the feminism forum, not the place for interjections like that. That's called trolling. Really not welcome.

Summer

The trouble with the article is that much is left unsaid which leaves the reader to jump to conclusions. Condoms do work and I have to admit that when I hear of a woman who had children in her teens, I immediately think the child was not planned. But just because I don't want kids yet and certainly didn't want them then when I was in my teens doesn't mean that all women feel the same. This is something I have to remind myself of when I read this kind of article. Obviously everyone has her own lens and is going to interpret things differently in some cases.

Something we do know is that overwhelmingly, single parent families = single mother families. We know that single mothers are more likely to have lower incomes. According to the article, black children are more likely to live in single parent (read mother) families in Canada and it follows from there that black children are more likely to grow up in lower income households.

quote:

The 2001 census says almost half of black children 14 and under live with only one parent, compared with about one-fifth of other children. As well, the census shows that 44 per cent of black children live in low-income households, compared to 19 per cent of other children.

I feel like I've been hearing a lot about absent fathers recently and usually it's in the context of black families in Toronto (maybe since I'm in Ottawa). I really don't like making this out to be a black problem, as I fear that other races will feel like they have no need to be concerned. I used to work in a community centre in Vancouver and we had lots of low income single mother families from all races (predominantly white IIRC).

So I'll just state the obvious: being a single parent is tough, regardless of race. Until they receive the support they need (government funded quality daycare is a biggy I think), their kids are [i]statistically[/i] going to be at a disadvantage compared to kids with 2 parents. (please note that I did not say automatically or necessarily - this is not a slag on single moms)

So here's my question to Babblers, what's the solution? And my other question is what are the problems (or is there a problem)? Deadbeat dads? People having children too young? Lack of government programs to help single parents? Lack of sex education/access to birth control? Racism? Classism? Sexism? All of the above? None of the above? I would argue that we have to talk about the problem before we can have any dialogue about what, if anything, should be done.

Edited to fix quote

[ 22 August 2007: Message edited by: Summer ]

Michelle

I don't have the answers to those questions. What I do know is that the fight for reproductive rights has been different in many ways for white women and black women and First Nations women. White women have had to fight to have the right to limit their child-bearing, through birth control and abortion. Historically, First Nations women have had to fight for the right not to be sterilized. Black women have had to fight against stereotyping of them as overly fertile and promiscuous, and against demonizing as "welfare queens" if they have more than one child and ever have to take social assistance.

Obviously there is some overlap here - Black women and First Nations women also obviously use birth control and access abortions, and white women have also dealt with stereotypes about poor single mothers. But I think that before this issue can be addressed by anyone, an understanding of the historical differences between the perception of reproductive rights of white women and women of colour need to happen.

Maysie Maysie's picture

quote:


Different life experiences driven by the dynamics of race and class have created a historic juxtaposition between the meaning of reproductive freedom for many upper- and middle-class white women and its meaning for many women of color. While white women have demanded freedom from compulsory motherhood, women of color have had to fight for the right to bear children and raise them out of poverty. Thus, there has been an inherent opposition by women of color to the views held by many middle and upper class white women that the campaign for legal abortion is the most important goal in the struggle for women's reproductive autonomy.

[url=http://www.americanprogress.org/kf/she%20speaks%20intro.pdf]She Speaks: African American and Latino Young Women on Reproductive Health and Rights. (Warning, this is a pdf file)[/url]

Stargazer

quote:


So here's my question to Babblers, what's the solution? And my other question is what are the problems (or is there a problem)? Deadbeat dads? People having children too young? Lack of government programs to help single parents? Lack of sex education/access to birth control? Racism? Classism? Sexism? All of the above? None of the above? I would argue that we have to talk about the problem before we can have any dialogue about what, if anything, should be done.

It's all of this and more. It's a cycle of poverty. It's lack of hope. It's the disadvantage poor kids get from the beginning - school and the way they are treated, good wholesome food - everything. But I want to point something out here. The assumption (unspoken) that women who have kids young or unplanned deserve this fate. Here's the reality, lots of things happen which we don't plan for, including sex. That does not mean that family should be doomed to poverty for life.

Are dead beat dads the issue? They most certainly are a large part of the problem. Before we go about deconstructing women and their choices I think we need to deconstruct a society which not only allows men to walk away from their kids, but condones it. I think we need to have a dialog about men and culture. A culture which pats men on the back for having more than one child, but which punishes a woman for the same action.

Just think about this for a second - when you see a man alone raising a kid, what do you think? Oh what a good father! How could a mother give up her child? But when we see a woman alone with a baby, none of the same reactions are present. Be honest.

This is a part of what we need to deconstruct.

Michelle

quote:


Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]Just think about this for a second - when you see a man alone raising a kid, what do you think? Oh what a good father! How could a mother give up her child? But when we see a woman alone with a baby, none of the same reactions are present. Be honest. [/b]

This is so true. People always ask me what I did to "lose" my son. I didn't do anything. One of us had to have him for more time than the other, and it happens to be my ex. Of course, I'm still very heavily involved in my son's life, so we're not comparing exactly the same thing. But the attitude is there, that if you're a single father, you're some kind of hero (and the reverse, if you're a single mother without custody, you're a pariah), but if you're a single mother, you're a drain on society and probably immoral to boot.

Stargazer

quote:


probably immoral to boot.

Oh shit Michelle. I had to laugh at this because it is just so true.

Michelle

Strangely enough, though, when I was married, people were just dying for me to pop out another one. "When are you going to give him a brother or sister?" "You're only having one? Won't he be lonely?"

I wonder how many Black women or First Nations women get that kind of constant questioning from white friends and acquaintences. I'm guessing not too many.

Bacchus

Mrs Bacchus gets this all the time. I tend to think more of such women (or men) because they are thinking of whats best for the child, not just what society deems the 'norm'

This does not include parents who walked away from their children or had them yanked from them for abusive reasons of course

kropotkin1951

quote:


Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]

This is so true. People always ask me what I did to "lose" my son. I didn't do anything. One of us had to have him for more time than the other, and it happens to be my ex. Of course, I'm still very heavily involved in my son's life, so we're not comparing exactly the same thing. But the attitude is there, that if you're a single father, you're some kind of hero (and the reverse, if you're a single mother without custody, you're a pariah), but if you're a single mother, you're a drain on society and probably immoral to boot.[/b]


Of course this is what happens. It happened with me and the mother of my children. Everytime I told someone I was a single parent and that the boys lived with me most of the time I was told how great it was and YUP what a saint. As a guy I am either a deadbeat or a saint and frankly I am neither. The iroinic thing for me was the saint comments came mostly from women that is who kept gushing about how wonderfull I was. The men I know mostly didn't comment.

Now I don't mind kudo's for both me and my boys mother because we have a very good relationship that included family dinners with both our new partners. To us the best interests of the children were the only concern and so we developed a relationship and child care arrangemets that was in keeping with that view.

The question for me what do I do to educate the women who make such remarks? On this board of all places it is obvious even attempting that can be a mine field.

Michelle, I know that the kinds of reactions that you experienced were also experienced by my kids mom. Is there anything I can do?

Stargazer

Kroto, you are right. I find myself praising men who take care of their kids all the time, and then I catch myself and really have to question why I am doing that. It shouldn't be a minefield question because it is the truth. Women constantly fawn over men who are single parents. I know I do, and I know other women do. But I think it feeds right in to the question of women as immoral raising criminal kids and men as saints who we should be grateful to because they are doing their duty.

I know that when I fawn over a man taking care of his kids I do it because I see it so rarely. I feel that it is a form of re-enforcement and that maybe other men will do it.

You know the joke about how some men use babies to pick up women? Well it is true. I know men who borrow other people's kids just to pick up women.

So what the hell do we do about this and how do we begin to treat woman with the same respect?

500_Apples

quote:


Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]
You know the joke about how some men use babies to pick up women? Well it is true. I know men who borrow other people's kids just to pick up women.
[/b]

[Off-Topic]
When my sister asked me to watch her puppy black lab (8 months around 60 lbs) last week while she went into the supermarket, I found myself wishing I could get that quantity of attention. , lol.

Stargazer

Oddly enough I was thinking that prior to logging in here again - works with puppies too.

Polly B Polly B's picture

A friend of ours - single no kids - used to "borrow" my two year old for trips to the park. I thought it was just that he was a terrific guy, turns out he had figured out it was an excellent way to meet women.

Michelle

Ha! Yep. Babies and puppies are definitely "chick magnets". When we had our son, my ex was in college. The couple of times he brought the little one to school to run an errand, he was surrounded by cooing young women.

Honestly kropotkin, I have no idea what you could say to women who put you on a pedestal for being a single father. I'd say relax and enjoy it. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] Seriously though, I don't think there's anything you can really say. It wouldn't be very polite to criticize someone who is praising you. And as Stargazer says, it's partially because it's uncommon that women find themselves doing that, even when they are conscious of it and know better.

I think just saying something like, "I'm not doing anything any other single mother or father is doing," in a light tone of voice is good. If she expands on the praise, or it becomes a conversation about male and female single parenting, then great. If not, then you've just said something modest, accepted her praise, and possibly planted a seed in her mind about how it's no more praiseworthy for a man to be a single parent than a woman.

AfroHealer

quote:


Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]
Honestly kropotkin, I have no idea what you could say to women who put you on a pedestal for being a single father. I'd say relax and enjoy it. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

I dont think there is anything wrong with the praise that men get for raising their kids.

I do think there is a lot wrong with the praise women don't get for raising kids.

I think society as a whole should work harder to appreciate the work that women continue to do and stop the pattern of taken this pivotal work for granted when done by women.

I know stereotypically in Afro-canadian and African communities alot of respect it given to the mums.

brothers & sisters are always talking,writing, singing and rapping about their Mums.

A great example is the classic west-African song "sweet mother" .

I also agree that the quest for freedom in the white-middle class feminist thought, has ignored the quest of freedom to choose reproduce & motherhood in other cultures.

from your bother from another mother,

[url=http://www.waado.org/Poems/Nigeria/SweetMother.html]Lyrics to Sweet Mother song[/url]

kropotkin1951

quote:


Originally posted by AfroHealer:
[b]
I do think there is a lot wrong with the praise women don't get for raising kids.

I think society as a whole should work harder to appreciate the work that women continue to do and stop the pattern of taken this pivotal work for granted when done by women.[/b]


Very true.

And Michelle that is what I used to do was say I'm just being a parent. It is also about language. For instance how often do people say the mom is "babysiting" the kids as compared to when dad is looking after the parental duties.

I know on my Acadian maternal side there is a large respect paid to mothers similar to what afro-healer described. I wonder if it has something to do with the history of disadvantage that the Acadians suffered through at least the middle of the last century.

Alexandra Kitty

I think these type of debates usually forget certain things.

We talk about "women," but really a lot of these "women" are teenage girls who may have 2 to 3 kids before they're 18. So they got themselves into trouble at a very early age.

They made not have had guidance and were lonely and thought a baby would keep their boyfriend with them. They lack education and once they have their children, crawling out of the hole they are in becomes that much harder; so they are stuck in those situations for years.

When I used to teach at one college, there were a lot of young girls in this situation, but at least those were the ones going to college.

But finding daycare and keeping up work and school was always a challenge. We don't really have supports for that.

saga saga's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Alexandra Kitty:
[b]
But finding daycare and keeping up work and school was always a challenge. We don't really have supports for that.[/b]

What? Your $100 cheque from the PM doesn't cover it?

[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I remember those days of finding good child care as very worrisome, so I do what I can to help with my grandkids. I came home from the 'fast lane' and scrambled for work a bit for this couple of years, but I am ALWAYS available after school, when needed. It is a gift to be able to spend this part of their young lives near them.

Bless you all, moms and dads. I think every day ... I am so glad to be a grandma now and not have the full agony of those worries. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

-edit to add -

OR sometimes I wait for their electrician to come ... ho hum [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

[ 12 September 2007: Message edited by: saga ]

arborman

I am continually amazed when people express delight that I spend as much time with my kid as I can. What else am I supposed to do? Is the bar so low that any man who doesn't spend his nights getting pissed at the bar and passing out in the flowerbed is some kind of hero?

Anyone raising a child alone is a hero. I'm fortunate not to be in that position, and I can't imagine staying sane if it were to happen.

And the original article is ugly. We see similar stuff about First Nations families all the time.

Incidentally, there are similar numbers of single parent families in the present compared to the 19th century, though at least partially for different reasons.

MegB

Being white, I got off relatively easy, even though we were on an economic par with many of the poorest women and children in the city. When my eldest was still a baby in in-home daycare in a social housing project in Downsview, it was my observation that the social politics of race, class and economics were particularly brutal to people who have been ghettoized by a racist classist society.

Our older girls (mine and my husband's),when they took our youngest on an outing, wanted to wear t-shirts that said "she's my sister" because they got tired of strangers assuming that Miss H was the product of an unplanned teen pregnancy. The mixture of patronizing condescention and faint contempt was truly gag-worthy.

Of course, the age gap between the older girls and the youngest still prompts the question "different fathers?" I always feel like responding, "Yes, I HAVE fucked a lot of different men in my life. How about you?" To my mind, that response is no more outrageous than the question.

1234567

quote:


Of course, the age gap between the older girls and the youngest still prompts the question "different fathers?" I always feel like responding, "Yes, I HAVE fucked a lot of different men in my life. How about you?" To my mind, that response is no more outrageous than the question.

I got that alot too because my kids don't look anything alike. To the point that one time a woman felt that it was her right to discuss with me on the bus, that aboriginal women typically are quite free with their bodies and will sleep with anyone they feel like. I couldn't fucking believe it. My traditional upbringing to be polite to stupid people stopped right there and I lit into her. A few people on the bus gave me the thumbs up but most just shook their heads at me. No wonder I'm so goddamn angry all the time!

Michelle

My ex and I are very different-looking. I'm pale, with light hair and green eyes, while he has a swarthy complexion, dark brown eyes, and black hair. My son, surprisingly enough, inherited my colouring and not his father's, so while I can see hints of my ex in the shape of some of his features, for the most part he looks way more like me than his dad. Although, he's lucky - at least he inherited his dad's ability to tan, and doesn't burn easily the way I do.

When we were married, people often commented on how my son looks nothing like his dad. To the point where we used to joke (before my son was old enough to get it - I'd never say it now) that he looks like me and the mailman.

I was actually surprised when we had him. I always thought dark features were dominant when it comes to passing down genes, but apparently not!

[ 14 September 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

Bacchus

quote:


My traditional upbringing to be polite to stupid people stopped right there and I lit into her. A few people on the bus gave me the thumbs up but most just shook their heads at me. No wonder I'm so goddamn angry all the time!


First of all, fucking good for you!

Second that line I love "my traditional...." [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Though thats one tradition it might be better overall if it were to end. Less stupid people making goddamn stupid racist comments.

remind remind's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]... I always thought dark features were dominant when it comes to passing down genes, but apparently not![/b]

No, they are not always. I am blonde, blue eyes, 5'7" and my partner is over 6' with dark and brown eyes and looks every bit Mic Mac. Our daughter is 5'2", blonde with blue eyes, though she does have his shape of eyes and facial construction.

What this means for her is she gets to hear racist commentary by those who believe she is "white". She has actually been told, by many racists, that she should fully disclose her FN heritage when she first meets people as they have a right to know she is not white.

Of course, this is after she has launched into them for their racist commentary. It seems they feel it is her fault that they made racist remarks.

1234567

quote:


Second that line I love "my traditional...."
Though thats one tradition it might be better overall if it were to end. Less stupid people making goddamn stupid racist comments.

Well, we believe that stupid people are to be pitied, not treated badly, afterall, they can't help that they are lacking in the brains department. Usually we are just kind and then ignore them until they learn to behave properly. But in the big cities, it's kind of hard to do that, so I felt I had good reason to lambaste her. I am sure the grandmothers would have been proud of me.

Sven Sven's picture

quote:


Originally posted by 1234567:
[b]To the point that one time a woman felt that it was her right to discuss with me on the bus, that aboriginal women typically are quite free with their bodies and will sleep with anyone they feel like.[/b]

As an aside, I have to laugh a moment at this. It's as if it's a bad thing to be "quite free with" one's body and to "sleep with anyone" one may feel like!! Or, conversely, that it's somehow virtuous not to do those things.

Tommy_Paine

I'm kind of surprised that a whole angle to this story has been missed. I didn't comment on it back in august, because I thought there'd be better informed babbler's touching on it. But I did do some reading on line to back up what a co worker told me on this subject some time ago.

The issue of lack of father figures in black families, according to some, can be traced back to the days of slavery. In the U.S. slave states and in the Caribbean, more often than not, black men where not allowed to [i]be[/i] fathers, as families were broken up capriciously and maliciously. One study, undertaken not long after the U.S. civil war, noted that this phenomenon was not present in "house slaves" whose families were more often than not left intact in the days of slavery.

I tend to think that there is more than something to this. While some may think that the passage of 150 years is enough to discount the effects of slavery on black families, I would counter that the traditional family in European societies are influenced by values traceable back to the beginning of recorded time. 150 years is but a blink.

Remembering that Africans were extricated from their own traditions, so there was a kind of cultural "lobotomy", and given a new and very dysfunctional "culture" by slave owners, I find it very plausible as speaking to the cause of the problems outlined in the article posted at the start of the thread.

Tommy_Paine

double post, sorry.

[ 15 September 2007: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]

Tommy_Paine

quote:


that aboriginal women typically are quite free with their bodies and will sleep with anyone they feel like.

Of course, London is next to the Muncey/Oneida/Chippewa on the Thames reserve, so there has always been racist attitudes and incidents here, and continue to be. Just before I entered high school in grade nine, the Board stopped busing all the Native kids to my high school, and instead broke them up into various high schools in London.

We were told a lot of things, all if it crap of course, by older kids as to what to expect from the Native students. But, never did I hear it said that Native girls were sluts, or "free with their bodies". Too this day, when I hear stereotypes and other racist stuff from others in London, I never hear references to that sort of thing.

martin dufresne

Where are the men? In most cases they have been chucked out - and for excellent reasons - by mothers more concerned about their children's welfare than about so-called traditional values. If we thought less of poverty as a personal failing and more of it as the result of inexistent child/family support policies, we wouldn't allow governments to thrust and maintain autonomous parents in relative poverty.
Another point of note is the distribution of income in two-parent households. Men often hog most of it (certainly almost all of the disposable income), leaving mothers and children in a form of poverty invisible to the household revenue focus of Statistics Canada (and to tut-tutting malestream journalists).

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

kim2

"Another point of note is the distribution of income in two-parent households. Men often hog most of it (certainly almost all of the disposable income), leaving mothers and children in a form of poverty invisible to the household revenue focus of Statistics Canada (and to tut-tutting malestream journalists)."

This isn't the case in the circles I travel in. Generally, in one income two parent families, the woman takes care of the finances.

Do you have a study to validate this claim?

clersal

quote:


Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Another point of note is the distribution of income in two-parent households. Men often hog most of it (certainly almost all of the disposable income), leaving mothers and children in a form of poverty invisible to the household revenue focus of Statistics Canada (and to tut-tutting malestream journalists).

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: martin dufresne ][/b]


Why do we women let them?

Martha (but not...

quote:


Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Another point of note is the distribution of income in two-parent households. Men often hog most of it (certainly almost all of the disposable income), leaving mothers and children in a form of poverty invisible to the household revenue focus of Statistics Canada (and to tut-tutting malestream journalists).[/b]

Any evidence for this claim?

1234567

quote:


Why do we women let them?

Because, when you are in the middle of a war, it's hard to imagine peace when you are worried about feeding your kids. All you can do is put one foot in front of the other and keep going. Fight to keep a smile on your face with your kids when inside you are wondering where the next meal is going to come from or how you are going to pay for that skiing trip the class has planned that you have to pay for but you can't and it breaks your heart because you will see the disappointment in your kid's eyes and there's nothing you can do about it. No one cares, no one wants to help, there isn't enough legal aid, if you go to court you miss work, you can't afford to miss work or you can't pay your bills. You can't make it on welfare because they only give you enough for the basics. That's why.

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