Women as an identifiable group under attack: Part 2

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remind remind's picture
Women as an identifiable group under attack: Part 2

continued from here

... am going to link to  20 days/20 ways, as day 13 indicates violence against women in the work place has gone up 40%, in the last 10 years.


And that figure is alarming, hugely alarming as a matter of fact, and has many rammifications.

remind remind's picture

Last night on the CBC news from Vancouver, the coverage of the story, in Calgary, where the husband/father murdered the children, and was trying to murder the wife when the police got there,  had the police noting that domestic violence against both women and children is increasing, and it is the most actioned crime by police across Canada.

remind remind's picture

It was a relatively quiet day in Tegucigalpa. Terror will do that.

Oh, there were people in the streets – protestors filled the square in front of the Congreso, for the 103rd consecutive day. Organizers in the Frente Popular de Resistencia met to determine what they would do about the pending pantomime elections. Leaders of the five main human rights groups in Honduras delivered an official denunciation of the coup elections to the Tribunal Supremo Electoral (TSE). The Movimiento de Mujares Visitacion Padilla, a feminist organization associated with the Resistance, amassed a crowd of many dozens of courageous women to demonstrate outside a police station where one of their leaders had been detained overnight.

Merlin Equiqure, one of the founders of a feminist movement that has been on the front lines of the coup resistance in spite of a powerfully patriarchal social structure, remains under arrest tonight without the possibility of bail - why? Because she was caught with a can of spray paint. The paint was used – as photo evidence has clearly demonstrated – to decorate placards and props for a piece of street theatre the group put together for the international day against violence against women. Her organization, in collaboration with the growing feminist movement in Honduras, has been tirelessly denouncing the fact that women have been particularly victimized under the coup regime – a pamphlet from a related organization wrote, “we are victims of sexual abuse, they beat our breasts, hips, buttocks and vulva; they put batons in our crotch, they threaten us with rape and other types of sexual aggression in a clear demonstration of contempt of this society towards the body and the integrity of women.” Merlin’s group, named after a famous woman who struggled for women’s rights in the 1920s, is made up of over 6000 predominantly young women – some of the women I spoke to this morning were teenagers - demonstrating courage I could never dream of exhibiting myself. In a piece of tragic absurdity that brought me to tears, one of their community leaders is now facing a trumped up prison sentence where she will likely face the very same sexualized violence that she has been so tirelessly fought to expose and denounce.

But women’s bodies are not only being used by the golpistas as objects for desecration and humiliation in prison cells; they are simultaneously being used to woo the smug gringos who have breezed into town to ‘supervise’ the farce elections this weekend. A cocktail party was held this evening at the Mayan Hotel for the representatives of NDI and IRI (elections-observation organizations linked to the Democratic and Republican parties in the US, respectively) and other observers cobbled together from the far-reaches of the Latin American Right (including Armando Calderon Sol, former president of El Salvador.) As they toasted to the great strides that Honduras was making towards a stronger democratic republic, they were entertained by 14- and 15-year old Mayan girls, dancing in sexualized traditional dresses, much to the delight of the overwhelmingly male ‘champions of democracy.’

bolding mine


and where is the denunciation by those human rights groups against what is being done to women?

remind remind's picture

War teaching our Canadian military persons that women and girls are just sex objects.....

A veteran army officer who forced his 12-year-old stepdaughter to sit nude beside him and to watch him masturbate to pornography was sentenced to the equivalent of two-and-a-half years in jail Wednesday.

The man, who can’t be identified to protect the victim, also transmitted an image of a little girl performing oral sex on an Internet dating site, offering the child — whom he claimed was his daughter — for sex.

The man had a stellar reputation with the forces, working his way up to become an officer and serving “numerous” tours of duty in war zones.

remind remind's picture

This thread over here indicates another way, or several, that women and our  allies/supporters, are under attack...

remind remind's picture

If it weren't so hypocritical, it would be hysterical.

On Wednesday, at a Parliament Hill ceremony marking the 20th anniversary of the Dec. 6 massacre at Montreal's L'École Polytechnique, Conservative MP Candice Hoeppner co-starred in Status of Women minister Helena Guergis's show of sympathy.

Bad enough that, last month, Guergis voted for Bill C-391, the legislation that aims to kill the long-gun registry and Hoeppner was the one to introduce it in the House.

No wonder that Status of Women committee members Anita Neville (L-Winnipeg South Centre), Irene Mathyssen (NDP-London- Fanshawe) and the Bloc's warrior queen of women's rights, Nicole Demers (Laval), boycotted the ceremony.

As Neville told me Wednesday, "The Conservatives' record on women has just been abominable.''

Never mind that, since the registry was introduced in the mid-'90s, the number of women killed by their rifle-wielding partners has dropped significantly. But, even with the registry, Statistics Canada reports, one out of three femicide victims is still killed by a rifle-wielding partner.

Tory `girlfriends' hew to party line on femicide

remind remind's picture

A Canadian woman posing as a hairdresser was charged on Thursday with human trafficking, for trying to sell two Chinese women to undercover policemen for 4,000 dollars each.

The woman allegedly offered to sell "two teenaged Asian women" for 5,000 Canadian dollars (4,700 US) each to undercover policemen.

"A negotiation took place, and the two women, aged 25 and 41, both originally from China, were sold to officers for 4,000 dollars each, for a total of 8,000 dollars," Calgary police said.

The arrest follows a three-month investigation into online offers for young Asian prostitutes

remind remind's picture

A man walks past a mural promoting awareness of the crime of ...


remind wrote:

War teaching our Canadian military persons that women and girls are just sex objects.....

A veteran army officer who forced his 12-year-old stepdaughter to sit nude beside him and to watch him masturbate to pornography was sentenced to the equivalent of two-and-a-half years in jail Wednesday.

The man, who can’t be identified to protect the victim, also transmitted an image of a little girl performing oral sex on an Internet dating site, offering the child — whom he claimed was his daughter — for sex.

The man had a stellar reputation with the forces, working his way up to become an officer and serving “numerous” tours of duty in war zones.


You don't think that it is a little bit over the top to blame the military mentality for this, do you?   What happens when this is a teacher or a nurse or a doctor doing the same thing?

If you did not need to  put in this your story as though it is true:  War teaching our Canadian military persons that women and girls are just sex objects.....    I find it an insult to anyone in the military, past present and future ESPECIALLY the women who serve. 

Some of your posts show a huge lack of empathy, and I do not know if that is passively aggressively intentional or just not communicating clearly.

remind remind's picture

Blame the military mentality?


I blamed war....


How about you stop putting words in my mouth to attack me?


oh.... and how about researching whom war impacts the greatest.....and just what it does to all involved




remind remind's picture

Blogger who targets feminists faces charges

The author of an anti-feminist blog was expected in Montreal court Tuesday to face charges of uttering death threats.

Jean-Claude Rochefort, 60, is accused of uttering threats against women from April to December 2009. He has already been charged with possessing an illegal firearm.

Rochefort created a website where authorities say he posted hateful, aggressive and menacing comments about women. Rochefort also referred to Marc Lepine, the gunman who killed 14 women at Montreal's École Polytechnique in 1989, as "Saint Marc."

One image shows the Montreal university with the caption "Where it all started."

Another caption says "where it could happen again, with the right people and the right equipment."


I think there is a disconnect between what you think you are saying and what you post.   You cannot defend that statement by attacking me.   I would suggest take a little more care with how you say things rather than find yourself offending everyone just in order to be "right".


Other than that, I shall leave you to your thread.   Just remind you that treating everyone as though they are your personal enemy will not win you any support;  there is a way to compromise, conciliate and communicate that will have the effects you seek.

remind remind's picture




This rather unfortunate article seems to be confused and missed the point http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/montreal-massacre-death-cult/article1392013/

Rather good counter points to some of what was raised here http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2009/12/08/the-supposed-plight-of-university-men/

remind remind's picture

Thanks PSto, Wente is her usual misogynist self.

remind remind's picture

In 2003 New Zealand introduced the Prostitution Reform Act which decriminalised prostitution.

In February 2004 the New Zealand Prostitution Reform Act Sub-Committee met to discuss the problems that had persisted since the change in legislation. The health and safety of the individuals in street prostitution was still at a low level and had not been improved by the Act’s implementation. Perceived threats to passers by, hazardous litter left in public places and alleged undertaking of sexual activities in public places and adjacent property were still an unresolved issue.

Streetreach, an Auckland based project that helps individuals involved in the sex industry, stated that before decriminalization they would make contact with 30 clients a night, and are now coming into regular contact with 90 clients a night. Streetreach has also noticed that there has been a rise in drug use and an increase in gang involvement in “minding” the sex workers. Debbie Baker, Director of Streetreach, recently disclosed that the women they are in contact with have experienced an increase in physical and sexual violence, such as rape, since 2003.


remind remind's picture

Danish law enforcement authorities have beefed up security for the UN conference and will "do our best to maintain law and order in the red light districts and hunt down the pimps," he warned, adding that procurement was illegal.

Copenhagen Mayor Ritt Bjerregaard had prior to the opening of the climate conference asked the city's hotel owners to "not facilitate contact between their guests and prostitutes."


Seven Copenhagen hotels have meanwhile launched a campaign against prostitution, an initiative led by Hotel Guldsmeden located on Helgolandsgade street in the city's red light district.

"The scene has become much rougher and the prostitutes are getting younger and younger, some are just 16 according to the police," a Hotel Guldsmeden spokeswoman, Kirsten Skovgaard, said.

A banner unfurled on one building in the street reads: "No more Trafficking, Drug-dealing, Abuse, Fear".

Copenhagen's social-democrat mayor


ETA: the further tail of this story was that the woman supposedly speaking up for the Danish 10,000+ prostitutes in outrage, actually was entitled to speak for 79.

remind remind's picture

Wonder how it is nowadays for Canadian women in the military?

Military Abortion Ban: Female Soldiers Not Protected by Constitution They Defend


You hear these legends of coat-hanger abortions,” a 26-year-old former Marine sergeant told me recently, “but there are no coat hangers in Iraq. I looked.” Amy (who prefers not to use her real name) was stationed in Fallujah as a military journalist two years ago when she discovered she was pregnant. As a female Marine, a distinct minority in the branch, Amy was fearful of going to her chain of command to explain her situation...


...From a remove of two years, Amy now sees the sex that resulted in her pregnancy as rape: something that may have qualified her for an on-base (though self-funded) abortion. However, at the time, because the rape wasn’t brutally violent, and because she had seen fellow servicewomen be ostracized for “crying rape” in the past, she imagined nothing but trouble would come of making a complaint.

Instead, using herbal abortifacient supplements ordered online, Amy self-aborted. Unable to find a coat hanger she used her sanitized rifle cleaning rod and a laundry pin to manually dislodge the fetus while lying on a towel on the bathroom floor. It was a procedure she attempted twice, each time hemorrhaging profusely. Amy lost so much blood on the first attempt that her skin blanched and her ears rang. She continued working for five weeks, despite increasing sickness, until she realized she was still pregnant.


Quite the enlightening and sickening read, for women in this day and age to have to go through this shit....


h/t BnR

remind remind's picture

From a now closed thread comes this woman hating link...




In fact, it almost, if not actually, reads as a threat against western women...

remind remind's picture

here is another thread at babble which indicates clearly that women as identifable humans are underattack...both the thread and the news item are great examples.


RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I'm normally not a fan of incarceration but remind makes a great point about women being under attack.  We treat crimes against women less seriously than property crimes.  Shame on me and all of us.


Well if men cannot refrain from being physically violent, from rape and from sexual assault - incarceration is necessary. The rich and well-connected asshat referenced in the thread remind linked to should have gotten a jail term. Perhaps he would think twice next time he feels he has ownership of other girls' and women's bodies.

Now we have a highly-publicized story where men receive the lessen that just saying your sorry is enough (fat chance he is actually sorry as well - I bet his real thoughts are appreciation for his lawyer and judge).

remind remind's picture

Not only that, the young girl is now burdened for the rest of her life with the societal belief, for sure in Saskatchewan, at the very least,  that this "poor crying"  man was publically harmed by her reporting of him....


If he keeps his job, the Saskatchewan Rough Riders deserve to lose every fricking game they play until the end of time, or their bankruptcy which ever comes first.


So I say; Pox on their team if they do keep him around.


People should be calling the Rough Rider headquarters demanding that Tillman not be re-enstated. If the courts can't do the correct thing people can.


here is their web site for the contact Info...



and/or direct contact page



RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

One thing to be encouraged by, the normally rah-rah sports type were outraged wiith phone calls and e-mails to the FAN590 yesterday. 


Discouraged, the same radio station is avoiding the topic.


remind wrote:

Not only that, the young girl is now burdened for the rest of her life with the societal belief, for sure in Saskatchewan, at the very least,  that this "poor crying"  man was publically harmed by her reporting of him....



Good point as well. This type of thing definitely has an effect on the willingness of girls and women to come forward. As if there are not enough barriers and issues in this regard already!


remind remind's picture

That is why the barriers and issues are thrown up, so women and girls won't come forward.


Complicity in marginalizing women and girls coming forward also comes in the form of the media showing a crying sobbing man, followed by a lawyer who states that judges give lighter sentences to public figures, because of the public humiliation they have to go through.


With that course of thinking then they should give lighter sentences to all criminals who appear in a take down on TV, or the most wanted lists, as they too suffer public humiliation.


Frankly  can hardly accept that it occured, it is such an attack upon women....and overt classism...


 encourage all to contact the Riders and demand that he remain out of a job with their organization. It will be another attack against women, if he is allowed to keep his position.



remind remind's picture

More on Tillman and his audacious sense of white male privilege right to sexuallly assault young girls....from when he was first charged.


Early the next morning, under the name "Happy to be green," Tillman posted a number of comments on the fan forum on the CFL's website.

He responded to the many messages from Rider fans, some wishing him the best and others urging him to resign.

"Reading some of these posts are interesting insight into life... and people," he wrote. "I do understand how painful and unpleasant this is for so many of you, and that hurts more than words can ever express. I care deeply about the good name of the Saskatchewan Roughriders. I also value my reputation... and, most importantly, love and care about my wife and children."

CBC News spoke with Tillman on Wednesday afternoon and he confirmed he was using the name "Happy to be green" to post messages on the website.

In his online postings, Tillman did not reveal any details about the allegations he's facing. He took issue with people speculating about his relationship with the complainant.

"Even injecting the word 'consensual' in this dialogue when your have no idea as to the allegation is incredibly unfair," Tillman wrote in the post. "Until the truth comes out over the coming weeks (and it will), I would respectfully ask you without your opinions until THEN!"

On Wednesday afternoon, the comments were removed and replaced with a note from CFL communications:

"Happy to be green,"


His arrogance in not resigning, can only be outpaced if the Rough Riders re-enstate him to his job position...



Wow - Tillman's comments are unbelievable remind. I don't even know what to say, it just has me so angry. I have contacted the Riders as well and hope others do.

remind remind's picture

Also, we see more rammifications occuring with the sexualization of young girls in society, and the ages of abusers getting younger with the latest incident here in BC.

The allowing of sexual assaulters to get off with a mere whinning apology in public, does not send a good message to young boys, say nothing of men.

Should we as a society really be  socially sexualizing young boys into rapists, as well?


Can we look forward to seeing a rash of sexual assaults, particularily in SK, because boys and men have been told quite clearly they can get away with it, by just whinning about how hard done by they are, that they took too many drugs and did not know what they were doing, and that they are sorry?

A nine-year-old girl was sexually assaulted Monday after a teenager convinced her to follow him to a park on Vancouver's west side, police said Wednesday.

The girl was approached about 6:00 p.m. PT by a young man while she sat on a bench near the entrance to the Arbutus Square Mall at Arbutus Street and W. 32nd Avenue, Vancouver police Const. Jana McGuinness said.

He convinced her to follow him to a nearby park where he sexually assaulted and threatened her, McGuinness said.

Anyone with information is asked to contact the Vancouver police.


It is time to stop pretending that all these sexual assault actions against women and girls happen in isolated splendor, and that sexual assault is no different than any other type of assault!



Just so people can see how outrageous letting Tillman of is I think people should look at the various parts of the Criminal Code that he might have been subject too but for his privilege. Only charged with assault apparently although arguably he was in a position of trust over this young person in his home and under his charge.  He didn't need any medical evidence to show he was not criminally responsible he merely had to state it and he was believed.  This is an outrageous outcome.



 (1) Every person commits an offence who is in a position of trust or authority towards a young person, who is a person with whom the young person is in a relationship of dependency or who is in a relationship with a young person that is exploitative of the young person, and who

(a) for a sexual purpose, touches, directly or indirectly, with a part of the body or with an object, any part of the body of the young person; or

(b) for a sexual purpose, invites, counsels or incites a young person to touch, directly or indirectly, with a part of the body or with an object, the body of any person, including the body of the person who so invites, counsels or incites and the body of the young person.

(1.1) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of forty-five days; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of fourteen days.

(1.2) A judge may infer that a person is in a relationship with a young person that is exploitative of the young person from the nature and circumstances of the relationship, including

(a) the age of the young person;

(b) the age difference between the person and the young person;

(c) the evolution of the relationship; and

(d) the degree of control or influence by the person over the young person.

(2) In this section, “young person” means a person 16 years of age or more but under the age of eighteen years.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 153; R.S., 1985, c. 19 (3rd Supp.), s. 1; 2005, c. 32, s. 4; 2008, c. 6, s. 54.

 (1) Every one who commits a sexual assault is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

(2) [Repealed, R.S., 1985, c. 19 (3rd Supp.), s. 10]

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 271; R.S., 1985, c. 19 (3rd Supp.), s. 10; 1994, c. 44, s. 19.

Assessment Orders

 A court having jurisdiction over an accused in respect of an offence may order an assessment of the mental condition of the accused, if it has reasonable grounds to believe that such evidence is necessary to determine

(a) whether the accused is unfit to stand trial;

(b) whether the accused was, at the time of the commission of the alleged offence, suffering from a mental disorder so as to be exempt from criminal responsibility by virtue of subsection 16(1);

(c) whether the balance of the mind of the accused was disturbed at the time of commission of the alleged offence, where the accused is a female person charged with an offence arising out of the death of her newly-born child;

(d) the appropriate disposition to be made, where a verdict of not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder or unfit to stand trial has been rendered in respect of the accused; or

(e) whether an order should be made under section 672.851 for a stay of proceedings, where a verdict of unfit to stand trial has been rendered against the accused.

1991, c. 43, s. 4; 1995, c. 22, s. 10; 2005, c. 22, s. 2.

 (1) The court may make an assessment order at any stage of proceedings against the accused of its own motion, on application of the accused or, subject to subsections (2) and (3), on application of the prosecutor.

Verdict of Not Criminally Responsible on Account of Mental Disorder

 Where the jury, or the judge or provincial court judge where there is no jury, finds that an accused committed the act or made the omission that formed the basis of the offence charged, but was at the time suffering from mental disorder so as to be exempt from criminal responsibility by virtue of subsection 16(1), the jury or the judge shall render a verdict that the accused committed the act or made the omission but is not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder.

1991, c. 43, s. 4.

 Where a verdict of not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder is rendered, the accused shall not be found guilty or convicted of the offence, but

(a) the accused may plead autrefois acquit in respect of any subsequent charge relating to that offence;

(b) any court may take the verdict into account in considering an application for judicial interim release or in considering what dispositions to make or sentence to impose for any other offence; and

(c) the National Parole Board or any provincial parole board may take the verdict into account in considering an application by the accused for parole or pardon in respect of any other offence.

1991, c. 43, s. 4.

 A verdict of not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder is not a previous conviction for the purposes of any offence under any Act of Parliament for which a greater punishment is provided by reason of previous convictions.

1991, c. 43, s. 4.


I am sorry about the formatting above.  When I hit the preview comment button before posting all the Code Sections and headings show up but when I hit post comment they disappeared.


remind remind's picture

Thanks kropotkin, perhaps letters should also be written to the Saskatchewan government,  as this is just unacceptable on so many levels...as your criminal code information clearly indicates.


Oh too funny,and not in a good way, I just went to the SK government site to get contact info and look what I found:


Saskatchewan Attorney General Presses for Passage of Crime Bill

Saskatchewan Justice Minister and Attorney General Don Morgan wrote an open letter to the Federal Government to press for Bill C-15 to be passed by the Senate with no amendments


So the Attorney General  wants mandatory minimums and yet he allows Tillman to get away with not even basic criminal code activities occuring.

all the info to contact the SK attorney general is at the link in the quotes, and indeed perhaps letters to the opposition critic would be good too...which is:

Frank Quennell
Saskatoon Meewasin

Constituency Office:
610 Duchess Street
Phone: 651-3581 Fax: 651-4670
[email protected]



and the complete MLA list is below



If people want to contact the SK Chief Justice here is the info....


The Hon. J. Klebuc · CRT · Chief Justice of Saskatchewan · (306) 787-5382 ·


remind remind's picture

Sexist attacks against women,  come in all places, shapes and sizes it seems these days...


And it seems Dockers, is quite  content to try and sell their products at the expense of women, mainly by telling men the world's ills are all the fault of women.






remind wrote:

Sexist attacks against women,  come in all places, shapes and sizes it seems these days...


And it seems Dockers, is quite  content to try and sell their products at the expense of women, mainly by telling men the world's ills are all the fault of women.





The phone number to contact Dockers from BC is 1 800 362 5377.

I just talked to a nice young woman who I think will pass on the fact that I have bought many pairs of Dockers but I never will again because of this blatantly misogynist ad.  I hope other men on this board will follow suit.


remind remind's picture

And the site that everyone on the left loves to get their yucks from, are not content to be left out of the ugly and extremely harmful sexism against women, and they too deserve to be boycotted.


Wonder where are the commedy pieces about the "sluts" in our society, whom countries are targeting for their tourism dollars?



remind remind's picture

Thanks for the number kropotkin, and for your calling them out on it.


remind remind's picture

Just going to add the thread on Dimanno's attack against women, just to show how many women are co-opted by patriarchy.



RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

This is perhaps a reminder of the archaic laws against women:


[url=http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/01/11/12425931-qmi.html]MP : 'Gold-digger' veteran clause 'unfair'[/url]



OTTAWA - The government should repeal "archaic" restrictions that deny women who marry aging veterans the ability to collect their dead husbands' pensions, says an NDP MP.

The clause, which was initially implemented to prevent "gold-diggers" from preying upon older servicemen, is "unfair" and "discriminatory," charged MP Peter Stoffer.

remind remind's picture

Really unbelievable, the government  wanting to save itself a bundle, saw nothing wrong with ascribing the term gold digger to women....to cover their money grubbing ways.


Thanks RP


Stoffer is correct this law needs to be gone.

Papal Bull



'I don't get anything out of sex with prostitutes except for a bad feeling," says Ben. An apparently average, thirtysomething, middle-class man, Ben had taken an extended lunchbreak from his job in advertising to talk about his experiences of buying sex. Shy and slightly nervous, he told me, "I am hoping that talking about it might help me work out why I do it."

I, too, was hoping to understand his motives better. Ben was one of 700 men interviewed for a major international research project seeking to uncover the reality about men who buy sex. The project spanned six countries, and of the 103 customers we spoke to in London - where I was one of the researchers - most were surprisingly keen to discuss their experiences.


Although some of the men said they thought the women they bought ­enjoyed the sex, many others admitted that they thought the women would be feeling "disgusted", "miserable", "dirty" and "scared". Ahmed said [b]he thought the woman might feel "relief that I'm not going to kill her".[/b]

Only 6% of the men we spoke to had been arrested for soliciting ­prostitutes. "Deterrents would only work if ­enforced," said one. "Any negative would make you reconsider. The law's not enforced now, but if any negative thing happened as a consequence it would deter me." Perhaps the new law will make Albert think twice about paying for sex. He told me, "If I'd get in trouble for doing it, I wouldn't do it. In this country, the police are fine with men visiting prostitutes."


I found this story on the most read of the Guardian website. It is a really disturbing article and the researcher who does it supports tightening laws around johns to decrease the consistent culture of permissivity that surround the enforcement of laws around the users of 'commercial sex' and the use of women as sex objects.


I wasn't 100% sure where to post this. So I chose this thread because Remind and other members have often many of the things shown in this article.


remind wrote:

Really unbelievable, the government  wanting to save itself a bundle, saw nothing wrong with ascribing the term gold digger to women....to cover their money grubbing ways.

Stoffer is correct this law needs to be gone.


I agree that the term is horrible but don't necessarily agree with changing the law. The existing law that designates division of military pensions upon marital dissolution treats the wife at the time the pension was accrued in an appalling way. The military pensioner collects his (I'm using "his" but recognize that occassionally it could be "her", as well) pension beginning at any time from 19 years + 1 day of service onward. So, let's say he starts collecting at age 45 and, after division, he gets $550/month. At the same time, his previous wife will have received a lump sum that she has to invest (it's locked-in and, by law, cannot be used with one exception that's worse) in an RRSP, or other equivalent financial mechanism. The idea being that she will need to invest in some plan that, by age 65, she will receive $550/month. So, he will have drawn income for 20 years meaning that he receives $132,000 more from a marital asset that supposedly has been divided equally.

It's more complicated than that, even, but that's the briefer version. The wife who sacrificed a normal life by moving around, often living on low-ish income, living away from extended family, having their partner be away and possibly in danger, gets screwed by this division and that situation should be rectified before any consideration is given to subsequent spouses.


remind remind's picture

Thanks for that heads up Loretta....perhaps Stoffer should address this too? Have you written him about it?


Papal Bull, you are correct thte article was disturbing so, was the whole pdf report. And thank you for posting this.


Also...so much for claims that decriminalization would help those trafficked...


Discovering the women were ­trafficked, pimped or otherwise coerced would appear not to be so ­effective. Almost half said they ­believed that most women in prostitution are victims of pimps ("the pimp does the ­psychological raping of the woman," explained one). But they still continued to visit them.

remind remind's picture

Going to link the Dockers thread to this one, as there is more going on with the Dockers ad.

remind remind's picture

The evidence is becoming pretty overwhelming these days, what the push for legalized prostitution has  done to the plight of women around the world, report after report, from country after country, indicates just what the actual truth is.

Slavery and exploitation, beyond that of which was present before  so called legalization. That is beyond the increased violence against all women.

And seeing as how men apparently do not care whether women are being trafficked, nor the ages, legalized prostitution is no solution to anything.

Criminals infiltrating legal brothel industry

While prostitutes, brothel operators and prostitution enforcement officers offered widely different estimates of how many illegal brothels there were in the state, they agreed that illegal activity has steadily increased in the past five years.

Brothel operators said there were about 400 illegal brothels offering either full sex or massages, which included a sexual service.


And then of course there is this truth too, that so many have tried to minimalize, and the same holds true in Canada:

One American Indian woman's long fight to escape prostitution

After losing her house and kids in 1996, Denise Ellis resorted to
prostitution to support her crack habit. For 12 years, Ellis worked the
streets, mostly around Bloomington Avenue in Minneapolis' Phillips
neighborhood, without a reliable place to live.

"I didn't have any place to go. I wanted to get high, and I couldn't think
of a quicker way to do it," she said. Throughout her homeless years, Ellis
had stayed with relatives and friends until losing their trust. By early
2009, she was running out of places to stay at night.

As an American Indian, Ellis is more vulnerable to prostitution than most
women, according to a first-of-its-kind report addressing the commercial
sexual exploitation of American Indian women and girls in Minnesota.
 Until the study's recent release, the plight of Ellis and other American
Indian women trapped in prostitution has been largely hidden from public
view in Minnesota.

"Almost all of them have early sexual assault traumas. [Most have] high
levels of molestation, high levels of incest, high levels of rape, domestic
violence," said Suzanne Koepplinger the center's executive director. "Those early traumas, along with other vulnerabilities like poverty and homelessness, coming into chemical
dependency ? they're extremely vulnerable."

The general average age of entry into prostitution occurs between 12 and 14,
Koepplinger said in an interview.

susan davis susan davis's picture

i am refering to the hoisting of the research in the guardian news paper above and i would ask remind, how does the quote you chose debunk decrim as making women safer? education of consumers and clear safe methods for them to report dangerous conditions. by ending the shame and educating consumers we could actually be more effective in combating human trafficking.

susan davis susan davis's picture

re- john's research

The article was presented as a major new piece of research when it is nothing of the kind; a casual glance shows it is not peer reviewed or presented to an acceptable academic independent standard. The Guardian and the editor responsible should be thoroughly embarrassed by its misrepresentation.

One of the co-authors of the report is Melissa Farley, when this "study" was run in Edinburgh n response a paper authored by some 15 academics and sexual health experts was submitted to the Scottish Parliament, strongly rebuking the methods and conclusions of the study. Amongst other things, the report states - "This research violates fundamental principles of human research ethics in that there is no evidence of any benefit to the population studied. Rather the purpose of the research appears to have been to vilify the population of men who were chosen to be interviewed. " In addition they criticize the work as biased, ill informed and unhelpful.

- A Commentary on 'Challenging Men's Demand for Prostitution in Scotland': A Research Report Based on Interviews with 110 Men who Bought Women in Prostitution, (Jan Macleod, Melissa Farley, Lynn Anderson, Jacqueline Golding, 2008)" by Teela Sanders, Jane Scoular, Michael Goodyear, and others, April 29, 2008. "The researchers were defined as people wanting to end violence against women - but presumably this may introduce bias into how the research was run. If you are asking someone to disclose buying sex but you openly disagree with this how can you hear what they say?"

This is not research it is a campaign.

susan davis susan davis's picture



A new study out of Simon Fraser University concludes that people who buy sex are no more prone to violence than anyone else.

Fewer than two per cent of the 1,000 respondents who took part in SFU sociologist Chris Atchison's study reported ever having hit, hurt, raped or robbed the person they bought sex from.

Granted, that's just them saying so. But Atchison noted in a Vancouver Sun story this week about his research that there was little reason for the respondents to lie, given that the survey was anonymous.

That his findings are provocative is an understatement.

"It's an outrageous study and it really works towards normalizing sexual assault," said Aurea Flynn of the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter, which is the go-to organization in B.C. when media are looking for a quote from someone vehemently opposed to prostitution.

"I'm really angry about the emphasis on the compassion for johns that the study provides," added Flynn, "and I'm very concerned about its impact on the continued normalization of prostitution in Canada because I believe prostitution is violence against women."

It's odd, really. Atchison's findings ought to be considered good news in a society that puts so much emphasis on reducing violence. Shouldn't we be happy that most of the thousands of British Columbians who buy sex on a regular basis aren't violent toward sex workers?

Ah, but this is about the sex industry. We don't want to hear anything "nice" about it. We don't want anybody telling us that most of the customers of the sex industry are largely average, non-violent guys -- the kind of men we work with, live with and even love. We don't want to hear that most adult sex workers in Canada might actually be choosing to work in the business.

When it comes to prostitution, we only like it violent, coercive and miserable. I guess we pretty much have to cling to that belief, because otherwise we just might question the ineffective, discriminatory and ultimately harmful laws that govern how the sex industry operates in our country.

We prefer a single story line when it comes to public conversations about the sex trade -- one in which all the people who buy sex are exploitive predators and all the people who sell it are victims needing to be saved (or at the very least prosecuted in the event they refuse "rescue").

But what if we've got that wrong?

remind remind's picture

man kills girlfriend over contraceptives


The plight is world wide, and never ending it seems......


remind remind's picture

'I believed sexism in our culture would wither away. I was entirely wrong'

The author of The New Feminism talks about challenging the resurgence of sexism in her new book, Living Dolls


The "prude" reference was key. In Living Dolls, Walter takes on the ­notion that, for example, stripping and pole dancing are ­empowering, ­liberating choices; instead, she ­suggests, it has become increasingly difficult for young women to opt out of this culture, to take any path other than that which leads inexorably to fake nails, fake tan and, finally, fake breasts. And, if they do, there are ­serious social penalties.

"I was surprised by the attitudes of the girls I interviewed," she says, "who seemed to feel that they would be mocked if they protested within their peer groups. You know, when I was at university [in the 80s] it was OK to be annoyed about ­sexism, to take it quite seriously – if you argued about it, it didn't make you the ­subject of ­mockery. Even if you didn't ­particularly identify yourself as a feminist, you could choose where you wanted to be on a spectrum, and you could still say, 'I really don't want Page 3 in the ­common room,' or, 'I ­really hate the idea of porn' . . . I was surprised when I was ­interviewing young women that they felt ­uncomfortable engaging in that way. Of course, a lot them would say, 'It's fine, we can choose whether to [interact with the sexist culture] or not,' and then you dig a little deeper, and you realise that it is more ­problematic than that."

The focus on popular culture, on the pervasive web of sexist imagery and behaviour, is a big shift away from Walter's first book, The New Feminism, which came out in 1998. Then she ­argued that feminists should ­concentrate on specific political, ­social and financial aims; in Living Dolls she writes that she felt that, at that time, we could put aside the feminist ­arguments that "centred on private lives: how women made love, how they dressed, whom they desired . . . I believed that we only had to put in place the conditions for equality for the remnants of the old-fashioned sexism in our culture to wither away. I am ready to admit that I was entirely wrong."


That looks like an excellent book, remind. I am terrified of raising a daughter in the the present culture. How do you prepare them and arm them with enough self-esteem?  

remind remind's picture

Newly released info from medical news...

In some abusive relationships, men may use strategies to force women to become pregnant, including sabotaging their birth control, researchers reported.

In a cross-sectional study of women treated at five family clinics across northern California, about 20% of women said that their partner tried to coerce them into having a child, Elizabeth Miller, MD, of the University of California Davis, and colleagues reported online in the journal Contraception.

Beyond outright coercion, abusive partners also engaged in birth control sabotage, for example, poking holes in condoms and flushing birth control pills down the toilet.

"It was stunning to have this many women seeking reproductive health services saying, 'this has happened to me,'" Miller said.

To investigate a possible link between domestic violence and forced pregnancy, the researchers conducted a survey of 1,278 women ages 16 to 29 who sought care at the five family planning clinics in northern California.

More than half of the women surveyed -- 53% -- reported physical or sexual partner violence.

Approximately a third of the women who reported partner violence also reported pregnancy coercion or birth control sabotage.


"The findings suggest that pregnancy coercion and birth control sabotage may be an aspect of partner violence that, given its relevance to reproductive health, should be identified by providers in clinical settings