Boycotting the babble inqusition

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Fidel
Boycotting the babble inqusition

I'll be boycotting babble until this absurd babble inquisition stops censoring discussion of the worst building collapses in history leading to liquid war without end. There were few if any personal attacks in this last thread closed by babble inquisitors. In fact, there are just as many if not more personal attacks and cheap shots launched daily in just about every other thread where everything from dishwashers and coyotes to toe jams are allegedly discussed.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I'm sorry you feel this way, Fidel, but my reasons for closing the 9/11 threads are clearly laid out. Obviously, you are an important member of babble and I value your contributions greatly. Nevertheless, the moratorium stands.

Fidel

You'd better close this thread too then before things get out if hand, and it begins to resemble every other thread where insults are allowed to fly like so many stealth bombers over Baghdad and possibly Iran as a result of a covert Al-CIA'da operation on 9/11/01. It's best to stay on top these things for the sake of today's Can-Am COINTELPRO feds. Spook yez l8r, dudes.

Unionist

Fidel - stay.

Fidel

If I'm going to be insulted and provoked into hurling insults in return, I would at least want to enjoy the freedom of doing it under an  aesthetically pleasing thread title of our own choosing. But this prodding us into specific threads only for insulting and being insulted seems like an Orwellian setup to me. Perhaps we could drive off into the 9/11 rhubarb in one of the hockey or footie threads so as to fool mods into thinking it's another run of the mill argument where sides are taken and people are insulted in the usual ways. What's so special about being insulted and made mock of in a 9/11 thread?

skdadl

Fidel, talk it over with Smokey. Rhubarb! (I love rhubarb.)

Webgear

Fidel

I agree with you.

Fidel

Smokey knows. I've asked him already, and he knows what matters. It's not things or even thread titles and the comments posted under them. It's people who matter.

Somewhere around 3000 Americans, Canadians and other nationals died on 9/11, and that date with infamy is still being used as a racist pretext for waging profitable war against an invisible enemy - the same invisible enemy alleged to have perpetrated several acts of terrorism against 3000 mainly white people on 9/11/01. More than 1200 independent engineers and architects simply want to know more about the exact causes of the collapses of three buildings of which only two were hit by planes piloted by amateur Cessna pilots suddenly turned combat pilot ready in a nick of time. It's their jobs and professional career obligations to know more about collapse initiations. US law and regulations are on the side of today's luminaries and not with those who continue to obfuscate and cover up the truth for the sake of empire and predatory capitalism.

E.Tamaran

Fidel wrote:

What's so special about being insulted and made mock of in a 9/11 thread?

rabble.ca, like any capitalist system, requires growth in order to survive. The suits at rabble.ca have made a conscious decision to make the site more mainstream in order to attract a wider audience, which leads to more visitors, more clicks, more advertising revenue, etc.

So out goes calling cops pigs.

Out goes 9/11 theorists.

Out goes any telling of true personal stories that go against the accepted orthodoxy.

Pretty soon the only threads will be about gardening, cooking, shopping, "lifestyle" topics basically. Welcome to MSN.ca!

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Fidel, sometimes I greatly admire you and other times I think you're a broken record. I am certain the feeling is mutual for at least the latter part. This time, I think you're right. Shutting down threads or prohibiting threads because the moderators are tired of them seems just too cliquish for me. C'mon moderators, your work is thankless and always open for debate, but this is too much.

skdadl

Fidel, you and I put things together in different ways, although I think we communicate fine in human ways.

To me, it has been much more important during this (awful) past decade to work on specific puzzles or outrages that we actually can get somewhere with, one at a time, one bit at a time. I don't claim to be a Sherlock, but I can read some good Sherlocks, and I like to follow them because they have some successes sometimes. Official lawlessness, eg, the conviction of state actors that they are above the law, has been most obvious and sometimes most vulnerable to investigation in the U.S. and here (and elsewhere), and it's surprising how much ordinary citizens can do to expose and challenge that outrage, although it takes modesty and careful, hard, detailed work as much as smarts to do that. I think, for instance, that some left American bloggers I know have managed to embarrass the FBI about their supposed official conclusions about the anthrax attacks -- not that the FBI have reopened the investigation, but they clearly would prefer that people forget about their silly story that doesn't actually add up.

The peeps I know who do that kind of thing almost never talk about 9/11. They know, as we do, that there was a lot missing and also a lot wrong with the official commission, but that's all they know, and that's not good enough for a Sherlock. They don't want the real work, the good work they do to be discredited by anything that looks too speculative ever to prove without direct testimony from the perps, and I think that's what it would take to do what you want to do convincingly. It's just too hard, and some of the reservations (how could you keep so many people so quiet for so long?) are just too huge. All it took to question the anthrax attacks was some people with lab smarts and then a very careful reading of the FBI reports, from which timelines could be built. Not a piece of cake, but doable. 9/11 -- not doable until you get some confessions.

Don't waste your passions, Fidel. Don't wear yourself out. Work humbly and on things that can be done with the tools you have. And keep the faith, eh?

 

 

Fidel

It's not that I think 9/11 is an especially heinous or vicious crime of the state and with lackeys in Ottawa marching to the same tune as usual. I think the difference with 9/11 is that false flag terrorism is involved. And false flag terrorism in general is not so unique either. EU parliament has already condemned operation Gladio and the fascist stay behind armies. But the approach here in North America has been to deny it altogether.

I think 9/11 truth groups aren't a lot different from citizens of the former Soviet Union who wanted state socialism democratizing not handed over to the oligarchs to dismantle and creating state capitalism since 1991 instead. And if certain Americans and Canadians want to pursue it, then all the merrier. But to suggest that anyone should put a stop to discussion of the need for a legit inquiry into 9/11, and to extinguish even the smallest cries in the wind for glasnost in North America in general I think is a bad thing.This is an issue that some people of all political stripes seem to agree on - that there has been bipartisan war parties participating in the creation of an invisible enemy recryuited from the cold war era , and now there is this bipartisan cover up of the events of 9/11. You have everyone from Jesse Ventura and Ron Paul to Ralph Nader and Michael Moore, and as comedians Wayne and Shuster used to say, even the NDP calling for a legit inquiry.

Let the people take this discussion of the official 9/11 narrative to wherever it may lead. You have to let people at least dream of democracy before it can happen. babble is where real people with real concerns are supposed to be able to say what's on their minds and not just what's fed to them by corporate sponsored newz media. Real people of the present and future should always refuse to be intimidated and bullied into thinking officially sanctioned thoughts regarding any subject matter.

The musical group Scorpions wrote:
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
In the wind of change

Walking down the street
Distant memories
Are buried in the past forever

I fallow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change

skdadl

Fidel, I didn't need 9/11 to be provoked into questioning the American empire, or more significantly, the MIIC. There are more defensible positions from which to aim your criticism.

ennir

I agree Fidel.

 

Fidel

skdadl wrote:
It's just too hard, and some of the reservations (how could you keep so many people so quiet for so long?) are just too huge. All it took to question the anthrax attacks was some people with lab smarts and then a very careful reading of the FBI reports, from which timelines could be built. Not a piece of cake, but doable. 9/11 -- not doable until you get some confessions.

I agree that it's hard and probably not doable for a lot of reasons. But there are the 9/11 whistleblowers who've talked about everything from incompetence, which favours the deliberately incompetent trying to conceal their incompetence -  to blowing the whistle on those state dept and CIA officials who knowingly compromised US national security by dealing directly and indirectly with the invisible enemy non-stop from Reagan and Bush I, and Clinton through to Dubya's war criminal regime, and at "arm's length" from the White House, of course. The truth is that they have not covered it up entirely. Sibel Edmonds and other insiders are there and stirring the pot for us. They continue to protect the identities of an entire organizational layer of al-Qa'eda still in the US and flitting across US and Canadian borders with the aid of US and Canadian inteligence agencies.

And I think that if 9/11 conspiracy is what unites people of all political stripes to question the American inquisition, then it's a good thing. We on the left should get behind them. And not pour all our efforts into this one issue, but simply support the 9/11 truth movement in their crusade for truth in general. We should, however, leave the wild speculation and most absurd conspiracy theories to the COINTELPRO agents of chaos, and concentrate on pointing out the many gaping holes in the official conspiracy theory. Apparently the bipartisan war parties believe it will cost them less to ignore these vulnerabilities and missing evidence than if a transparent and legit investigation was to happen. They are hiding something, and many Americans and Canadians know it. Loose lips sink ships as they say, and the ship is taking on more water every day.

Fidel

skdadl wrote:

Fidel, I didn't need 9/11 to be provoked into questioning the American empire, or more significantly, the MIIC. There are more defensible positions from which to aim your criticism.

Oh I don't need it either in order to suspect the MIIC of waging war on democracy. Some people do though. Some Republican-conservative supporters do though, for example. Some Green Party supporters find it absolutely heinous that the national security state would attack their own civilians and infrastructure in order to create a security issue.

We may not see it as the worst thing they've ever done, but very many others can't get their heads around it in nearly the same way they were able to when, for example, the doctor and madman bombed the daylights out in Cambodia and VietNam. Apparently brown people just don't matter the same as upstanding citizens who die in white real estate elephants in NYC on 9/11 and as strange as that may sound. Not everyone's the same in this general regard and have different needs before their opinions can be altered in profound and meaningful ways, like this apparent political epiphany as a result of 9/11.

I think 9/11 is just another leaky hole in the boat that needs repairing for the sake of democracy. And so can someone pass me a saw and a sledge hammer? Because the boat is tilting and yawing a little and could use some more water in the bow section I think. Tongue out

ETA: I just think it's harder to defend Muslims around the world from the war machine when we generally remain silent on who actually perpetrated 9/11. Was it the invisible enemy of who a scant few have even been prosecuted for the crime? Or was it the gladio gang at the the root cause of 9/11? As Stephen King might say, we have to make a stand however small the hill may be. Sometimes we can't or shouldn't try to pick our battles. Sometimes the mole hill has certain potential that might not be apparent at first glance. Incoming!

skdadl

Fidel wrote:

ETA: I just think it's harder to defend Muslims around the world from the war machine when we generally remain silent on who actually perpetrated 9/11.

Why on earth would you think that?

I certainly don't find it hard to believe that people whose countries and cultures have been raped and ravaged by the West would strike out against Western powers in any way they could. I don't find that hard to believe at all, and in fact I think you make it harder to work towards progressive and useful understandings of other countries and cultures by presuming they never have any agency.

al-Qa'bong

First they came for the 9-11 threads...

skdadl

I find it hard to believe I'm writing to one.

Anyway, I have to go now; everyone have a good night, and Fidel, please give Smoke an earscratch from me.

ennir

Perhaps it never will be thoroughly investigated but by keeping the question alive it allows others to make connections.  I think if it is okay with you Fidel I will join your boycott, of course if it is not I will simply start my own. lol

Some are now talking about the gulf as another false flag, some are saying it was sabotage, others point to the overwhelming greed that led to shoddy practices to increase profits and some to the idiocy of drilling where we should not drill at  and I am reminded of the Bush Aide telling the reporter that the world had changed and that while we study and reflect on what they have done, they have already moved on to bigger and better catastrophes.  We need to understand that psychopaths rule the world.

 

MrBinky

Never been reading this site before.

Notice the site is keen on banning 9/11 discussions.

Nuff said.

Is this site pretending to be Canada's "progressive left" ? !!

LOL !!! What a pathetic joke !

Judy ... Judy...Judy...

 

MrBinky

Never been reading this site before.

Notice the site is keen on banning 9/11 discussions.

Nuff said.

Is this site pretending to be Canada's "progressive left" ? !!

LOL !!! What a pathetic joke !

Judy ... Judy...Judy...

 

MrBinky

(In case you missed it first time)

(this seems to be a limited hang-out)

Fidel

skdadl wrote:

Fidel wrote:

ETA: I just think it's harder to defend Muslims around the world from the war machine when we generally remain silent on who actually perpetrated 9/11.

Why on earth would you think that?

I certainly don't find it hard to believe that people whose countries and cultures have been raped and ravaged by the West would strike out against Western powers in any way they could. I don't find that hard to believe at all, and in fact I think you make it harder to work towards progressive and useful understandings of other countries and cultures by presuming they never have any agency.

I don't believe any of the 19 "amateur" hijackers were acting on anyone's behalf in Asia or Middle East. I think some of them were trained in terrorism on US and European soil by US and other western governments during the 1980s and 90s. The CIA and US Military were well acquainted with Ali Mohamed and several of the 9/11 perps from their time as partners in waging anticommunist jihad in Central Asia. Various state dept officials as well as whistleblowers have admitted to US news media since 2001 that the Taliban and even al-Qa'eda are US CIA, US Military and ISI creations since General Zia's time as US-backed military dictator of Pakistan. Indian and Russian officials have accused the west of creating these terrorists and anticommunist mercenaries over the last 25 years or so. And now US Government and other whistleblowers are saying the same things. Osama bin Laden's birth country isn't bombed or invaded. At least not yet anyway. bin Laden isn't even wanted by the FBI for 9/11. All they seem to have are the tortured confessions of a few anticommunist jihadis from the cold war era still being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. I think those people in custody will not receive a fair trial before being executed by the US Military for the crime of being convenient patsies to a US-CIA sword operation in New York City on 9/11.

[url=http://globalresearch.ca/articles/LYN406A.html]The 9/11 Cover-up Commission[/url] by Joyce Lynn

or, When foxes are ordered to guard the hen house 2004

[url=http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050523112738404]The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie[/url] by Dr. David Ray Griffin

Colder war hawks think that not being caught in a lie is the same as telling the truth.

 

Fidel

skdadl wrote:

Fidel wrote:

ETA: I just think it's harder to defend Muslims around the world from the war machine when we generally remain silent on who actually perpetrated 9/11.

Why on earth would you think that?

I certainly don't find it hard to believe that people whose countries and cultures have been raped and ravaged by the West would strike out against Western powers in any way they could. I don't find that hard to believe at all, and in fact I think you make it harder to work towards progressive and useful understandings of other countries and cultures by presuming they never have any agency.

And another thing. Who financed 9/11 terror? The 9/11 Commission want us to believe it was all done on a shoe string budget and executed by 19 amateurs. Meanwhile their Pakistani army intelligence friendly, General Ahmad was fingered for passing $100,000 dollars to Mohamed Atta just days before 9/11. Apparently desperately poor people are more capable than we knew and represent a real threat to their ambitious real estate grabs abroad by virtue of their subsistence existence in those countries.

Poor people tend to scare hell out of corporate America and trans-national energy companies for sure. And apparently they want us to  also learn to be leary of brown people living on $2 dollars a day and less than that. It took an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident]operation Himmler[/url], a series of false flag attacks along the German-Polish border to fully convince Germans of the need for a pre-emptive attack on and invasion of Poland to stem the evil tide even then. Today's false flaggers are just a bunch of unoriginal copy cats.

Jingles

9/11 is a pissant little joke, and utterly irrelevant other than as a distraction or as propagande. Get over it. What's really important is getting to the bottom of the Pearl Harbour attacks. They are the catalyst that launched the US on its post WWII imperial stage. What did FDR know, and when did he know it?

MrBinky

It`s not even complicated.

Free fall collapse speed through undamaged steel structure is impossible.

It`s grade school physics.

Judy...Judy....Judy..

MrBinky

Jingles -Great points all.

Good luck on your grade 7 tests !

MrBinky
oldgoat

[quote=MrBinky]

Jingles -Great points all.

Good luck on your grade 7 tests !

[/quote]

 

Hi MrBinky, welcome to babble.   Please don't insult other babblers.  BTW, what's with the "Judy Judy Judy"?

MrBinky

Judy Rebick apparently runs the site and if they avoid all 9/11 discusions acts as a left gatekeeper.

Inside job ?

 

MrBinky

Fidel - that's an ad hominim attack. Stick to facts. Or you're probably a shill.

MrBinky
oldgoat

[quote=MrBinky]

Judy Rebick apparently runs the site and if they avoid all 9/11 discusions acts as a left gatekeeper.

Inside job ?

 

[/quote]

 

Judy Rebick hasen't had anything to do with rabble for over four years now.  Please stop your paranoid speculation. Also, if you have something to say just say it, never mind doing dumb things like posting a name three times and think you're making some sort of clever point.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Jingles wrote:

9/11 is a pissant little joke, and utterly irrelevant other than as a distraction or as propagande. Get over it. What's really important is getting to the bottom of the Pearl Harbour attacks. They are the catalyst that launched the US on its post WWII imperial stage. What did FDR know, and when did he know it?

Jingles, I will have to disagree. The US launched itself into the era of Imperialism with the Spanish American War delivering to the US beating up an older kid in the school yard, Spain, collecting a number of colonial marbles some as far away as the Phillipines (shedding much blood in the process), and put into motion the series of events including the famed gun boat diplomacy that led to inevitable confrontation with Japan. The end of the Second World War saw the ascendency of the US Empire to the forefront of Western Civilization, leader of the free world as the press release puts it, and the start of a golden era for free market capitalism which formed the ideological and philosophical basis of the empire. But that golden age is over and the empire has been in decline for some 30 years, albeit a very slow decline ... until George W. came along and put the pedal to the metal. But the decline will be even more abrut, still, as the rise and golden era of the US empire was marked by seemingly endless amounts of cheap fossil fuel energy.

MrBinky

On CBC radio they say Judy Rebick - from Rabble dot com.

 

Inside job ?

Fidel

Jingles wrote:

9/11 is a pissant little joke, and utterly irrelevant other than as a distraction or as propagande. Get over it. What's really important is getting to the bottom of the Pearl Harbour attacks. They are the catalyst that launched the US on its post WWII imperial stage. What did FDR know, and when did he know it?

Isn't it time you said something terribly important about "Taliban Jack" in the latest phony war thread? And don't forget to throw in a few swear words for effect.

[url=http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/05/28/afghans-believe-us-is-funding... believe US is funding Taliban[/url] Intellectuals and respected Afghan professionals are convinced the west is prolonging conflict to maintain influence in the region

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20386][color=blue]US Is No Stranger to Double-Dealing:The Role of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and its links to the CIA[/color][/url]

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/26/afghan-war-logs-pakistan-afg... war logs: Recriminations fly over alleged support for Taliban[/url] CIA funds the ISI - ISI funds and controls the Taliban and Al-CIA'duh

MrBinky

Where did Fidel go ?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raJHBpL9K98

 

Any questions rabble ?

oldgoat

I believe they still copy her blog here, and like a lot of people, she writes the occasional piece, but she's no longer the publisher or in any kind of authority. 

 

Believe whatever pleases you, but sorry, no inside job.  The moratorium on these threads are for exactly the reasons Catchfire and I stated.  I know that will never satisfy the more paranoid conspiracy theorists, because hey, it's just not much fun, but as Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  The moratorium exisits because too many people were being too big a pain in the ass.

 

Hey Fidel, for someone who's boycotting the place, I have to point out that your post count doesn't seem to be suffering.

Fidel

Frustrated Mess wrote:
But that golden age is over and the empire has been in decline for some 30 years, albeit a very slow decline ... until George W. came along and put the pedal to the metal. But the decline will be even more abrut, still, as the rise and golden era of the US empire was marked by seemingly endless amounts of cheap fossil fuel energy.

Yes, F.M. And there are US Conservatives who have described this as George Dubya's phony war. They call it a phony war due to the fact that the world's most unsustainable, fossil fuel-dependent economy has no real national energy plan other than to bomb and invade oil-rich countries and wreck the environment in order to feed corporate America's habit. Even some of them think it's madness.

oldgoat

I'm closing this because it's just turning into another dumb 911 thread.  I think if people are going to continue doing this we'll just have to close their accounts.

Topic locked