The Ninth Anniversary of 9/11 Thread

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siamdave

Pants-of-dog wrote:

Other people have this interest too, I agree. But that does not change the fact that Mr. Griffin wants you to believe so that you will buy his book.

- mymy - and some people are rather well known for demanding evidence of any statement made by anyone else - do you have any 'evidence' for this, or is it just some kind of wild conspiracy theory?

Fidel

Well we've all been able to read the 9/11 Commission's Cover-up on-line for free for some time. But I don't think it's a fair use of taxpayers money to propagandize the public like that. Their own commissioners have said it's a sham. What do you think about that?

And don't be so grouchy. I was [url=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Qv1Z5ETcWgI/SfUlLAx43zI/AAAAAAAAAT0/zru9zcvGDy... kidding[/url] about the import-export thing.

Fidel

[url=http://rawstory.com/news/2008/PBS_NSA_tracked_911_hijackers_but_0127.htm... NSA could have prevented 9/11 hijackings[/url]

Quote:
 Former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer told PBS, "None of this information that we're speaking about this evening's in the 9/11 Commission report. They simply ignored all of it."

Not only was then-Director Michael Hayden never held accountable for the NSA's alleged failure, but he went on to oversee the Bush administration's vast expansion of domestic surveillance. In 2006, he was appointed as director of the CIA.

Yes they knew all about the hijackers even before 9/11, and so this is why they need to step-up spying on the lives of Americans?

At first it was "blowback", and they knew nothing of the 9/11 and could never have anticipated such an event. Then we learn that the US Military had practiced drills in anticipation of exactly the same events as occurred on 9/11. Now we learn that the shadow gov knew intimate details of the hijackers and all of their plans? Four of the alleged hijackers lived outside the gates of the NSA in Virginia, and they knew nothing about them? It's believable only if you're incredibly naive, like about 60 percent of Americans are really sheeple who are easily led down well trodden paths into the valley of steel bleeting and babbling.

Quote:
As one writer puts it:
"If we know of illegal administration spying on journalists and other non-suspects, and we know of pre-9/11 surveillance, then we for all intents and purposes know that these are not programs designed to fight some foreign terrorists threat."

Indeed, the government and its contractors seem to have spent most of their time spying on antiwar protesters, environmentalists and other non-dangerous people.

Uncle Sam afraid of his own bogeyman? Bollocks!

Fidel

[url=http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18405]9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE[/url]
FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT Pilots For 9/11 Truth, 2009

David Copperfield could not have entered the pilots cabin of AA Flight 77.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8514]Ted Olson's Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials[/url]

David Ray Griffin wrote:
This rejection of Ted Olson’s story by American Airlines, the Pentagon, and especially the FBI is a development of utmost importance. Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington. Also, if Ted Olson’s claim was false, then there are only two possibilities: Either he lied or he was duped by someone using voice-morphing technology to pretend to be his wife.17 In either case, the official story about the calls from Barbara Olson was based on deception. And if that part of the official account of 9/11 was based on deception, should we not suspect that other parts were as well?

Pants-of-dog

Fidel wrote:

[url=http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18405]9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE[/url]
FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT Pilots For 9/11 Truth, 2009

David Copperfield could not have entered the pilots cabin of AA Flight 77.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8514]Ted Olson's Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials[/url]

David Ray Griffin wrote:
This rejection of Ted Olson’s story by American Airlines, the Pentagon, and especially the FBI is a development of utmost importance. Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington. Also, if Ted Olson’s claim was false, then there are only two possibilities: Either he lied or he was duped by someone using voice-morphing technology to pretend to be his wife.17 In either case, the official story about the calls from Barbara Olson was based on deception. And if that part of the official account of 9/11 was based on deception, should we not suspect that other parts were as well?

 

See, you take something like Ted Olson not being sure of how his wife called, and somehow morph that into evidence of a false flag operation.

It's not. Ted Olson simply doesn't know how his wife called him, and is talking about the different possibilities of how she could have called him.

From Mr. Griffin's footnotes:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/foxnews091401.html

Quote:

HUME: You don't know whether it was on a regular cell phone or one of those air phones?

OLSON: No, I don't. I first of all assumed that it must have been on the airplane phone, and that she somehow didn't have access to her credit cards....

Ted Olson is not part of  agrand conspiracy. He is simply a man who watched two planes fly into the WTC, and then received a phone call from his wife, telling him that her plane was hijacked.

Imagine how you would feel.

Such a shock would make it difficult to remember technical details concerning phone call technology.

Fidel

Pants-of-dog wrote:
See, you take something like Ted Olson not being sure of how his wife called, and somehow morph that into evidence of a false flag operation.

It's not. Ted Olson simply doesn't know how his wife called him, and is talking about the different possibilities of how she could have called him.

From Mr. Griffin's footnotes:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/foxnews091401.html

Quote:

HUME: You don't know whether it was on a regular cell phone or one of those air phones?

OLSON: No, I don't. I first of all assumed that it must have been on the airplane phone, and that she somehow didn't have access to her credit cards....

Ted Olson is not part of  agrand conspiracy. He is simply a man who watched two planes fly into the WTC, and then received a phone call from his wife, telling him that her plane was hijacked.

Imagine how you would feel.

Such a shock would make it difficult to remember technical details concerning phone call technology.

It didn't matter whether Barbara Olson had credit cards with her or not.

 THERE WERE NO AIRPHONES ON FLIGHT 77! And cellular phone tech in 2001 was not in place to allow for high altitude phone calls. And so that leaves two possible scenarios:

1) Ted Olson spoke with an imposter claiming to be his wife aboard flight 77, or

2) All of Ted Olson's 9/11 story is a complete fabrication.

That the passengers on Flight 77 were "herded to the back of the plane" by boxcutter and knife-wielding hijackers was not true. A central pillar in the official 9/11 Commission's cover-up story has been falsified by the FBI and Pentagon and CIA since 2006. They have quietly swept former DoJ Solicitor General Ted Olson's 9/11 story under the rug. It didn't happen.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, has again managed to steal the global spotlight, after levelling a series of rhetorical attacks on the US and Israel - the "Zionist entity" in his words - during an address to the UN General Assembly.

Specifically, he told world leaders on Thursday that the "majority of the American people, as well as most nations and politicians around the world agree" that "some segments within the US government orchestrated" the September 11, 2001, attacks in order to "reverse the declining American economy" and to justify US military operations in the Middle East to "save the Zionist regime"

Ahmadinejad and the 9/11 attacks

Pants-of-dog

Fidel wrote:

......

 THERE WERE NO AIRPHONES ON FLIGHT 77! ...

 

This is not true. Even David Ray Griffin admits that he made an error when he claimed that Flight 77 had no air-phones.

Here is David Ray Griffin admitting that error:

http://911blogger.com/node/8408

Quote:

David Ray Griffin
May 7, 2007

In my recently released book, Debunking 9/11 Debunking (1), I claimed that Boeing 757s made for American Airlines did not have seat-back phones or any other onboard telephones.

....

My Error

....

My mistake, like that of Henshall and Rowland before me, was to assume that the AA spokesperson and this website were talking about AA 757s as they had always been, not simply about 757s at the time of the query, in 2004.

But the latter was evidently the meaning. Elias Davidsson, an Icelandic member of the 9/11 truth movement, sent me a story from February 6, 2002, which said: “American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday.” (5) Davidsson also reported a 1998 photograph of the inside of an AA 757 showing that it did have seat-back phones. (6)

So, David Ray Griffin agress with me that airphones exosted on flight 77.

Fidel

David Ray Griffin gave them the benefit of the doubt, but that was 2007.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16924]DRG retracts the retraction[/url] Jan 2010

[url=http://pilotsfor911truth.org/amrarticle.html]Chad W. Kinder, AA Customer Relations correcting the correction:[/url]

Chad Kinder wrote:
That is correct we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack. However, the pilots are able to stay in constant contact with the Air Traffic Control tower.

The FBI still doesn't believe Ted Olson, a well-known supporter of the Bush-Cheney election campaigns.

Without Barbara Olson's fake phone calls, there is no evidence for dark-skinned hijackers wielding boxcutters and "herding" passengers to the back of the plane. No eye witness testimony describing foreigners terrorizing Americans in the sky at knife point. That was for propaganda purposes to rile Americans into supporting indiscriminate bombing and invasion of random countries at the discretion of the neocons.

And without the overall hijackers narrative, the collapsing towers fairy tale doesn't work. Because then how could "al-Qaeda" have rigged three secure buildings with military grade nanothermite,  hydraulic machines, or both, and as the non-truthers like to add about that theory, "without someone noticing?"

Pants-of-dog

Fidel wrote:

David Ray Griffin gave them the benefit of the doubt, but that was 2007.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16924]DRG retracts the retraction[/url] Jan 2010

[url=http://pilotsfor911truth.org/amrarticle.html]Chad W. Kinder, AA Customer Relations correcting the correction:[/url]

Chad Kinder wrote:
That is correct we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack. However, the pilots are able to stay in constant contact with the Air Traffic Control tower.

The FBI still doesn't believe Ted Olson, a well-known supporter of the Bush-Cheney election campaigns.

Without Barbara Olson's fake phone calls, there is no evidence for dark-skinned hijackers wielding boxcutters and "herding" passengers to the back of the plane. No eye witness testimony describing foreigners terrorizing Americans in the sky at knife point. That was for propaganda purposes to rile Americans into supporting indiscriminate bombing and invasion of random countries at the discretion of the neocons.

And without the overall hijackers narrative, the collapsing towers fairy tale doesn't work. Because then how could "al-Qaeda" have rigged three secure buildings with military grade nanothermite,  hydraulic machines, or both, and as the non-truthers like to add about that theory, "without someone noticing?"

 

Chad Kinder"s e-mail discusses the present situation, not the situation in 2001. This can be deduced by his use of the present tense.

He then makes the incorrect assumption that the situation was the same in September of 2001.

In fact, the order to remove those phones did not come until March of 2002:

Quote:

February 6, 2002 4:20 PM PST

 

Airline grounds in-flight phone service

Airlines are throwing away those phones built into the seats, and they're blaming it all on cell phones.

American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday.

.....

Please note that the date of the article is February of 2002.

Link: http://news.cnet.com/Airline-grounds-in-flight-phone-service/2100-1033_3...

Fidel

DRG, 2008 wrote:
[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8514]This rejection of Ted Olson’s story by American Airlines, the Pentagon, and especially the FBI[/url] is a development of utmost importance. Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington. Also, if Ted Olson’s claim was false, then there are only two possibilities: Either he lied or he was duped by someone using voice-morphing technology to pretend to be his wife.17 In either case, the official story about the calls from Barbara Olson was based on deception. And if that part of the official account of 9/11 was based on deception, should we not suspect that other parts were as well?

I'm willing to give Ted Olson the benefit of the doubt. I think someone impersonating his wife may have called his office on 9/11. It's either that or he lied to the FBI. However, none of the authorities believes Ted Olson actually spoke with Barbara Olson who he apparently still believes called him from AA flight 77. And that's understandable considering the emotional roller coaster Olson must have endured that day and every day since 9/11.

Pants-of-dog

You have no evidence that anyone has rejected Olson's story.

Fidel

You'll need [url=https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:7]Adobe Shockwave flash plugin[/url] to play .SWF files

[url=http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution... United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Criminal No. 01-455-A[/url]

US FBI wrote:
AA Flight 77 seat#3E - Barbara Olson   

Phone Calls

"9:18:58   0 seconds"

(202) 514-XXXX

Department of Justice

unconnected call

Pants-of-dog

None of that supports your claim that anyone rejected Olson's story. According to the trial transcripts, it would appear that Olson's story was accepted bu US authorities:

Quote:
At 9:15 a.m. and at 9:26 a.m., Flight 77 passenger

20 Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, and spoke to him for

21 about one minute before the call was cut off. Barbara Olson

22 reported that the flight had been hijacked by hijackers wielding

23 knives and box cutters and that all the passengers were in the

24 back of the plane.

25 At 9:20 a.m. and 9:31 a.m., Barbara Olson again called

331

1 and spoke to her husband, Ted Olson. She reported that the pilot

2 had announced that the flight had been hijacked. Ted Olson asked

3 Barbara her location, and she replied that the plane was flying

4 over houses. Ted Olson told his wife of the two previous

5 hijackings and crashes.

http://cryptome.org/usa-v-zm-030706-02.htm

Fidel

Those are transcripts from the jury trial. What I pointed you to is the prosecution's(US Gov) trial exhibit P200054, as in what the FBI says they have enough evidence to support. They have no evidence from phone records or American Airlines that Olson's phone calls were, in telecom engineering language, nailed up end-to-end phone calls, Zero seconds.

Not only is there no proof that Barbara Olson made two phone calls to her husband, there isn't any proof that she made even one phone call to Ted Olson from flight 77.

Zero seconds. And that's because there was no cell phone call. There were no airfones on flight 77.

There are audio files of phone calls made from the other planes on 9/11. Notice, though, that the FBI does not have any audio recordings for any of Barbara Olson, Renee May, or the unknown caller alleged to have made phone calls from AA Flight 77. And that's because the FBI does not have any evidence whatsoever that those alleged calls were actual phone calls made over voice bearer channels by way of either airfone or cellular.

And what's said in a jury trial is sometimes not supported by actual evidence.  Sometimes people don't tell the truth for any number of reasons which no one really knows for certain.

In fact, there were no phone calls from Barbara Olson to Ted Olson originating from flight 77.

Fidel

siamdave wrote:

Pants-of-dog wrote:

Other people have this interest too, I agree. But that does not change the fact that Mr. Griffin wants you to believe so that you will buy his book.

- mymy - and some people are rather well known for demanding evidence of any statement made by anyone else - do you have any 'evidence' for this, or is it just some kind of wild conspiracy theory?

Some people believe the matrix is real. They have personal interests in "the system" constructed all around us. These kinds of people will defend the system at every turn and often without thinking. However, unlike the sci-fi movie The Matrix, most all of the physical reality around us is real. But in our real world "matrix", information represents enormous power to control the masses.

 What some of us find intriguing about babble is that it doesn't conform to matrix standards. In "here", babblers are forced to think for themselves. babble, like the sci-fi movie plot, is a training exercise for people who want to free their minds from the real world prison matrix.

Some babblers have suggested that they were re-born after frequenting rabble/babble a few times. I think the analogy is a good one. We are not so innocent after being exposed to the truth about "the matrix." We know each other by our re-birth names, "Fidel", Lard Tunderin' Jeezus, jas, siamdave, and so on. Although I think some of us have known the truth since before babble re-birth. In a sense we are all no longer who we once were. We are all "Neo."

 

The Matrix wrote:
Trinity: "Follow the white rabbit... Knock, knock, Neo."

jrootham

A phone call of 0 seconds means there existed a telephone.  Of some nature.  Your evidence destroys your argument.

 

Fidel

jrootham wrote:

A phone call of 0 seconds means there existed a telephone.  Of some nature.  Your evidence destroys your argument.

In the real world matrix, jrootham, voice calls are timed for billing purposes. How many free phone calls have the telcos ever allowed you to make?

The FBI's records show that Ted Olson's alleged conversation with his wife aboard flight 77 were fictitious ones. There is no actual evidence for his claim. If anyone has hard evidence supporting Ted Olson's testimony, then they are obligated by law to contact the proper authorities and produce that evidence.

siamdave

Fidel wrote:

siamdave wrote:

Pants-of-dog wrote:

Other people have this interest too, I agree. But that does not change the fact that Mr. Griffin wants you to believe so that you will buy his book.

- mymy - and some people are rather well known for demanding evidence of any statement made by anyone else - do you have any 'evidence' for this, or is it just some kind of wild conspiracy theory?

Some people believe the matrix is real. They have personal interests in "the system" constructed all around us. These kinds of people will defend the system at every turn and often without thinking. However, unlike the sci-fi movie The Matrix, most all of the physical reality around us is real. But in our real world "matrix", information represents enormous power to control the masses.

 What some of us find intriguing about babble is that it doesn't conform to matrix standards. In "here", babblers are forced to think for themselves. babble, like the sci-fi movie plot, is a training exercise for people who want to free their minds from the real world prison matrix.

Some babblers have suggested that they were re-born after frequenting rabble/babble a few times. I think the analogy is a good one. We are not so innocent after being exposed to the truth about "the matrix." We know each other by our re-birth names, "Fidel", Lard Tunderin' Jeezus, jas, siamdave, and so on. Although I think some of us have known the truth since before babble re-birth. In a sense we are all no longer who we once were. We are all "Neo."

 

The Matrix wrote:
Trinity: "Follow the white rabbit... Knock, knock, Neo."

- I wrote a small book about this a few years ago - They're Building a Box - and You're In It  http://www.rudemacedon.ca/dlp/box/box-intro.html - the 'real' matrix as it is being constructed in Canada - still applies, although I have come to understand yet more about just how deep it all is -

NDPP

Obama and West Reject Ahmadinejad's Call for Scientific 9-11 Investigation  by Dr. Gideon Polya

http://www.countercurrents.org/polya260910.htm

"The 911 atrocity killed 3,000 people but the subsequent US-led [includes Canadian killers and collaborationist population] war on terror has KILLED 8 MILLION PEOPLE...

Top scientists and intelligence experts dispute the 'officlal US version' of what happened on 9-11 and variously assert that people within the US Government did 9-11 (possibly with Israeli assistance).

President Ahmadinejad's 9-11 speech at the UN merely advances 3 logical, testable scientific hypotheses about 911 but has immediately elicited hysterical, egregiously dishonest, anti-science and anti-truth responses from Western leaders and Mainstream media.."

 

Fidel

I think that a lot of people believe that it is just more Republican government bashing on the surface of it. What they don't seem to understand is that both wings of the same party of  pro Wall Street, warmongering plutocrats are deeply involved in the events surrounding 9/11 that date back 30 years to 1978-79 in Central Asia.

However, what those many Republican Party cheerleaders and smaller percentage of Democrat party supporters, and US empire loyalist counterparts here in the North refuse to believe is that the anti-human foreign policies might be in effect at home. Surely Murder Incorporated has slaughtered innocent nonwhite people around the world. But they could never fathom white people being sacrificed at home for the sake of pro-war propaganda. For those people the racist foreign policies are in force to protect white North Americans. In their minds they are benefactors of racist imperialist foreign policies. They associate themselves with the elite in our two countries, who, in reality, wouldn't spit on their own cheerleaders if they were on fire.  That ordinary white people might be thought of as expendable as far as North American elite are concerned is simply inconceivable for tens of millions of North Americans who maintain faith in the very racist, anti-human foreign policies of their own governments. It's all black and white with no grey areas in between as far as very many are concerned. They are led and bred to think about things the way they do. Any and all attempts to reason with those kind of people will always be fruitless. We can't 'unbend' their minds.

sanizadeh

Yep, especially Ahmadinejad's claim that the majority in US agree with his hypothesis must be based on solid poll results right out of his intelligence ministry!

The 9/11 truthers do themsleves a lot of disservice by publicizing Ahmadinejad in their support. This is the man who is known for the wildest possible claims, from his "anyne in Iran is free to criticize president" statement,to "there is no Gay issue in Iran", to "the world leaders (at UN) were sitting there listening to me without blinking for half an hour" just among a few quotes.

Fidel

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks_opinion_polls]Fewer than half of Americans[/url] believe "al-Qaeda" responsible for 9/11.

Pants-of-dog

Fidel wrote:

Those are transcripts from the jury trial. What I pointed you to is the prosecution's(US Gov) trial exhibit P200054, as in what the FBI says they have enough evidence to support. They have no evidence from phone records or American Airlines that Olson's phone calls were, in telecom engineering language, nailed up end-to-end phone calls, Zero seconds.

Not only is there no proof that Barbara Olson made two phone calls to her husband, there isn't any proof that she made even one phone call to Ted Olson from flight 77.

Zero seconds. And that's because there was no cell phone call. There were no airfones on flight 77.

There are audio files of phone calls made from the other planes on 9/11. Notice, though, that the FBI does not have any audio recordings for any of Barbara Olson, Renee May, or the unknown caller alleged to have made phone calls from AA Flight 77. And that's because the FBI does not have any evidence whatsoever that those alleged calls were actual phone calls made over voice bearer channels by way of either airfone or cellular.

And what's said in a jury trial is sometimes not supported by actual evidence.  Sometimes people don't tell the truth for any number of reasons which no one really knows for certain.

In fact, there were no phone calls from Barbara Olson to Ted Olson originating from flight 77.

No, you misread the applet:

This is what the DoJ and FBI have to say about the matter:

Quote:

57. The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of four “connected calls to unknown numbers” represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office (all family members of the Flight 77 passengers and crew were canvassed to see if they had received any phone calls from the hijacked flight, and only Renee May’s parents and Ted Olson indicated that they had received such calls). The four calls were at 9:15:34 for 1 minute, 42 seconds; 9:20:15 for 4 minutes, 34 seconds; 9:25:48 for 2 minutes, 34 seconds; and 9:30:56 for 4 minutes, 20 seconds. FBI report,“American Airlines Airphone Usage,” Sept. 20, 2001; FBI report of investigation, interview of Theodore Olson, Sept. 11, 2001; FBI report of investigation, interview of Helen Voss, Sept. 14, 2001;AAL response to the Commission’s supplemental document request, Jan. 20, 2004.
Footnote 57 to Chapter 1, 9/11 Commission Report

So, we can plainly see that the FBI and the DoJ do not contradict or deny Olson's story.

Fidel

Pants-of-dog wrote:

No, you misread the applet:

This is what the DoJ and FBI have to say about the matter:

Quote:
57. The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of four “connected calls to unknown numbers” represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office [...]

...FBI report,“American Airlines Airphone Usage,” Sept. 20, 2001; FBI report of investigation, interview of Theodore Olson, Sept. 11, 2001; FBI report of investigation, interview of Helen Voss, Sept. 14, 2001;AAL response to the Commission’s supplemental document request, Jan. 20, 2004.
Footnote 57 to Chapter 1, 9/11 Commission Report

What applet are you referring to? Because what you've quoted is what the bogus and discredited 9/11 Commission report of 2004. says. The 9/11 Commission was for public show and nothing more. There were no legal ramifications or anyone held accountable. There was no transparency to the public. Bogus according to two of the commissioners/whistleblowers themselves.

US FBI wrote:
AA Flight 77 seat#3E - Barbara Olson   

Phone Calls

"9:18:58   0 seconds"

(202) 514-XXXX

Department of Justice

unconnected call

And that is the FBI's most recent statement concerning the alleged Olson phone call(s) by airfone. "0 seconds" and "unconnected"

And so to summarize what David Ray Griffin says,  as well as authors Rowland Morgan and Ian Henshall, there is not only no evidence for airfones on AA Boeing 757 flight 77 on 9/11, there have been two AA spokespersons state that quote-unquote, that there were no airfones on flight 77 at all. There were airfones on AA's Boeing 777s and 767s in 2001, but none on AA's Boeing 757 passenger jets. Is this why the FBI backtracked on their flight 77 airfones claim by 2006? "0 seconds unconnected"?

jrootham

Fidel, just  because the 9/11 commission was a whitewash does not imply that all the evidence presented to it was false.

The existence of an unconnected call implies the existence of a telephone.  You can't try to make a telephone call without a telephone.

 

Fidel

jrootham wrote:

Fidel, just  because the 9/11 commission was a whitewash does not imply that all the evidence presented to it was false.

The existence of an unconnected call implies the existence of a telephone.  You can't try to make a telephone call without a telephone.

Perhaps, but the FBI has changed its own story on the phone calls several times since 2001. First there reports of many cell phone calls originating from flight 77. Then by  2004 the FBI and DoJ said that all of the calls from 77 were made by airphones. There have been two AA spokespersons(Chad Kinder and Tim Wagner) since then reveal that there were no airfones on flight 77 period. None for passenger use or crew members. An unnamed source produced a photo of airfones installed on the backseats of AA's Boeing 757s, but that was a photo from 1998. I tend to favor the statements made by Wagner and Kinder that only AAs Boeing 777s and 767s had airfones installed by 2001. Why? Because no one using their real name from AA has since contradicted Wagner or Kinder.

I also think DRG has a good point with the four connected unknown calls morphing into a two-call unkowns scenario. Why was the FBI able to determine that one phone call was attempted from Barbara Olson to Ted Olson's DoJ office and was not connected, and the OTOH, was able to determine that two or even four calls of unknown caller or called party was Ted Olson's office via his secretary answering calls at the time, Lori Keyton? This makes no sense to me.

I was working in Kanata Ontario for several years in the mid 1990s to 2000s. Everyone in Kanata then was doing access to either DMS or Lucent telephone network switches. I can assure you that everything from call source numbers to digits dialed for purposes of billing are required parameters for accessing a telephone network whether it's a head end modem or digital private branch exchange switch. The remote switch then goes into its state machine mode and does things more or less automatically, like timing the nailed up connection down to fractions of second, transmission of pulse metering for billing purposes, call management signals over a separate channel etc until the call is torn down.  That was true then whether phone calls were made in Gorzow Poland through the European V5.2R1 protocol or here in North America using GR303. I don't buy this "unknown" business at all, which is something David Ray Griffin has not mentioned. But he seems to be aware of and focused on the lack of evidence for any of the calls from flight 77 in general. There should be detailed records of any telephone call if they are nailed up calls, which means someone has to be billed for those calls. As they say, there is nothing free in this world as especially true in the telecom world which I know to be true myself. When doing access to the telephone network, your stuff will be rejected by a Nortel or Lucent switch unless your stuff is providing it with the required information in the right sequence before timers expire. The switch just tells you to go home without so much as a thanks for trying or sfa.

Fidel

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=21208]FBI Raids Activists' Homes in Sinister COINTELPRO Replay[/url]

Tom Burghardt wrote:
In a replay of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's infamous [url=COINTELPRO[/url]">http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm][=blue]COINTEL... operations targeting the left during the 1960s and '70s, America's political police launched raids on the homes of antiwar and solidarity activists. 

Heavily-armed SWAT teams smashed down doors and agents armed with search warrants carried out simultaneous raids in Minneapolis and Chicago early morning on September 24.

Rummaging through personal belongings, agents carted off boxes of files, documents, books, letters, photographs, computers and cell phones from Minneapolis antiwar activists Mick Kelly, Jessica Sundin, Meredith Aby, two others, as well as the office of that city's Anti-War Committee. [...]

The conduct by secret state repressors however, goes far beyond overzealousness. In the wake of the provocative 9/11 attacks, materially aided by the FBI's own informant, the al-Qaeda triple agent [url=http://www.lobster-magazine.co.uk/articles/9-11.htm]Ali Mohamed[/url], "terrorism" continues to serve as a pretext--and justification--for a domestic clampdown against organizations engaged in legal political activity guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and is a key feature of Washington's "War on Terror" policies.

Parenthetically, Fox News reported Sunday that the Pentagon "has burned 9,500 copies of Army Reserve Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer's memoir 'Operation Dark Heart,' his book about going undercover in Afghanistan."

"The Defense Intelligence Agency," the right-wing news outlet reports, "attempted to block key portions of the book that claim 'Able Danger' successfully identified hijacker Mohammed Atta as a threat to the United States before the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks."

prisonernumberone prisonernumberone's picture

One very good site incorporating 9/11 truth is

http://noliesradio.org/

lots of audio in the archived shows

cheers

 

 

 

prisonernumberone prisonernumberone's picture

hi   recently videos taken on 911 have been foai'ed out.

here is a starter link

http://www.federaljack.com/?p=17228

the headline refers to melting due to pyroclastic cloud ....... my understanding is that the cloud was slightly below ambient temperature......i.e. most of us can remember people caught in the cloud who weren't burnt in any manner  nor were there any stories of charred bodies.....

anywhhoooo  everybody keep their head up  

bob

 

Fidel

Be careful talking about the physics of it, bob. You'll find yourself vehemently opposed by a kind of armchair debunkery you wouldn't believe. 

They'll tell you there are no whistleblowers, and that the very fascist and illegitimate George II government wasn't capable of telling lies about 9/11, and that the war criminal regime of crazy George II was only lying about a long list of other things over eight years in power not related to the events of 9/11. IOWs, they were prolific liars who suddenly exhibited surprising integrity when it came to transparency and accountability to the public concerning 9/11. They accept the obvious fascism of that government and continuing today, but they draw the line at thoughts of a murderous rightwing regime actually murdering fellow white people and Americans in order to justify Hitlerian military attacks and invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and now marauding over the borders into Pakistan and so on.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The real 9/11.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/11/newsid_319...

 

The real ground zero.

http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/08/07/hiroshima-survivor-remembers-that-h...

 

It seems that the american propaganda machine has triumphed.  Not even lefties can talk without using its "newspeak"

Fidel

Kropotkin, we do appreciate the history lesson. But no one is suggesting that the fascists haven't also perpetrated nuclear terrorism and ongoing nuclear blackmail and threatening other countries with fascist military attack. The thread is about the most recent false flag terrorism in America and perpetrated by modern day swordsmen still living and who are excellent candidates for arraigning on charges of crimes against humanity. Bush senior and Maggie got away with lying to their respective parliaments WRY Iraqgate and other crimes against humanity. This one, though, has betrayed the trust of Americans themselves and anyone else who lost family members to the gladio gang's false flag on 9/11.

The events surrounding 9/11 is a "conspiracy" that dates back 30 years. The corruption and criminality is ongoing. And it didn't stop on 9/11/01. Whistles have been blown.

jrootham

Fidel you are lying about what other people say on this topic.

 

Fidel

I'm lying? I thought it was dubya Inc. who all nudged me out by a nose for prolific lying-liars of the 2000s Oscar award. No? Are you saying they stole that one, too?

jrootham

Did you really write that sentence?

Are you under the impression that there is only one liar in the world?

 

jrootham

I suppose if you twisted my arm, I could be convinced that you really believe that people here said those things.  

But that would demonstrate that you are incapable of reading English for comprehension.

 

Fidel

Actually I've forgotten what your POV is on the subject. I wasn't implying that anyone specifically is a die-hard apologist for the Reaganauts-Bush I-Clinton-Bush II deep state conspiracy to Talibanize and al-CIA'da-ize the stani nations and claiming "blowback" by 9/11.

The reasons for not wanting a legit investigation of 9/11 are obvious. But not so obvious is the real probability that the al-CIA'da black op is ongoing in Central Asia and the Middle East. They are still funding the madrassa system in Pakistan and Afghanistan. They are providing aid and weapons to the Taliban by their own admission. They are still occupying two or three countries militarily based on a lie.

Fidel

[url=http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/10/gordon-duff-its-official-911-com... DUFF: IT’S OFFICIAL, 9/11 COMMISSION “A WHITEWASH”…FOX NEWS[/url] Conspiracy not a "theory" anymore

"Everyone on the Commission was covering for someone."

NDPP

More of the same earlier?

October 7, 1940: The Day That Should Have Lived in Infamy

http://disquietreservations.blogspot.com/2010/10/october-7-1940-day-that...

"On October 7, 1940, exactly 14 months before the infamous attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941, Lieutenant Commander Arthur H McCollum penned a memorandum, recommending that the US government provoke the Japanese into attacking America, and thus allowing America to enter WWII with the American people fully behind the decision.."

prisonernumberone prisonernumberone's picture

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." attributed to Albert Einstiein

anywhoo  here is another link babble might not be aware of

http://www.militaryofficersfor911truth.org/

bob

 

Fidel

[url=WikiLeaks">http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rowley-wikileaks-20... and 9/11: What if?[/url] They might have prevented 9/11 if it wasn't for the most secretive and most well funded military dictatorship in world history

prisonernumberone prisonernumberone's picture

Thanks Fidel for resurrecting the thread.....the article itself is a fantasy based on false premises and anything true that it may contain is correct in the way that at stopped watch is right twice a day....

.although I've chosen prisonernumberone as a nom de plume ..... I also lean towards  l'esprit de l"escalier  (apologies for lack of francais on the old keyboard  ie I'm lazy?)  a propos of which ... to the structural genius Foot in mouth who put forward the analogy of the twin towers to stacked champagne glasses eventually crumbling under their own weight.... the twin towers had thicker steal on the bottom , narrowing as they rose ie the top could actually never crush the bottom no matter what (point finale).  anywhooo

Here is Bob McIlvaine recently talking to a podcaster in Australia.

Visibility 9-11

subscribe in itunes......

part of the gist of the conversation was how it is appropriate to investigate murder.....(I believe it's called being a grown up)

cheers Bob

 

siamdave

Following the above led me here, a place I have not seen before, but which might be of interest to anyone who is starting to become aware that just maybe the official story is BS, considering the lies and general activities of our rulers the last decade and wants to check things out a bit more - Welcome Truth Seeker http://911truth.org/article.php?story=20050204132153814 . Of special interest, considering the efforts of a few of us to explain the problems with the Official Conspiracy Theory here is the page 25 Rules of Disinformation http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050116064744556 - anyone who has read over some of the 'discussions' about 911 here will recognize readily the tactics of those who wish to prevent others from having a useful discussion of the subject.

Fidel

[url=http://www.voltairenet.org/article167733.html]Wikileaks: a Big Dangerous US Government Con Job[/url]

Quote:
A closer look at the details of what have so far been carefully leaked by the most ultra-establishment of international media such as the New York Times reveals a clear agenda. That agenda coincidentally serves to buttress the agenda of US geopolitics around the world from Iran to North Korea. The Wikileaks is a big and dangerous US intelligence Con Job which will likely be used to police the Internet.[...]

The process of policing the Web was well underway before the current leaks scandal. In 2009 Democratic Senator Jay Rockefeller and Republican Olympia Snowe introduced the Cybersecurity Act of 2009 (S.773). It would give the President unlimited power to disconnect private-sector computers from the internet. The bill "would allow the president to ’declare a cyber-security emergency’ relating to ’non-governmental’ computer networks and do what’s necessary to respond to the threat." We can expect that now this controversial piece of legislation will get top priority when a new Republican House and the Senate convene in January.

Assange is looking more and more like a anti-anti-establishmentarian. He swallows 9/11 fairy tales hook, line and stinkers. Regards  Bilderberg gatherings as normal meetings between democratically minded people. I don't like him. I think he's a useful idiot, a willing pawn or both simultaneously. This is the most secretive military dictatorship in world history. Wikileaks is window dressing amounting to little more than gossip and rumor mongering by their own people. It's an NSA-US Military intelligence black ops. Wikileaks is a fishing expedition, and now they have new justification for an expanded cyber gestapo and to beef-up the virtual warfare department.

There is no war on terror. War on terror is a phony excuse for warmongering and rolling back what little democracy existed before 9/11. The war on democracy continues as usual.

Jingles

Are you still going on about that stupid 9/11 nonsense? So the US government was complicit, and fascists are in charge. No freaking kidding. We didn't need superdupermagic thermite to tell us that. If Dick Cheney came out on "The View" and admitted that he personally flew a remote control airplane into the Pentagon, do you know what would happen? The media would be beside themselves reporting on the nasty exchange between Whoopi and the Cheerleader, then they'd move on. Nothing would change. It's just not that important.

I like how, in order to establish Assange as an establishment dupe, they provide evidence not from Assange, but from what establishment media like the NYTs wrote. Pay attention: wikileaks makes no such determinations about Iran. In fact, the cables provide evidence to conclude the opposite of what establishment media conclude for their own purposes. Blaming Wikileaks for the drivel of the NYTs is rather dishonest, wouldn't you say?

Fidel

At least there exists scientific evidence for a nanothermite job on 9/11. What did the FBI, you and Sarah Palin come up with besides nothing?

Jingles wrote:
Blaming Wikileaks for the drivel of the NYTs is rather dishonest, wouldn't you say?

And one of the same papers which published the US Military's contrived newz stories about Saddam having WMD, that Iraq and Afghanistan are linked to 9/11,  "nurse Nayirah", the 9/11 Commission cover-up story etcetera. Blame the establishment for being sucked in by the CIA and US Military dictatorship's lies on a fairly consistent basis.

Jingles

Like I said, I don't care about 9/11 because it's irrelevant. Pure spectacle. It's like debating the deeper meanings of "Avatar" or "Transformers".

Heh heh.."scientific evidence"..heh heh...

Jingles

Quote:
Blame the establishment for being sucked in by the CIA and US Military dictatorship's lies on a fairly consistent basis.

"Sucked in"? Nobody was sucked in.Do you actually believe that the elite's media are as stupid as their readers?

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

Heh heh.."scientific evidence"..heh heh...

 

It's scientifish evidence. That basically means that some retired literature professor from Wisconsin has thought long and hard about it and come to some "obvious" conclusions. If you don't believe them then there's a two hour web video YOU NEED to watch to EDUCATE YOURSELF about THE REAL TRUTH.

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