Space: What's out there II

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Fidel

In space, no one eats ice cream.

[url=http://news.stv.tv/scotland/tayside/219364-be-prepared-for-close-encount... must prepare for close encounters with aliens, says scientist[/url]

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Extra-terrestrial life forms may not “differ that much from our own”, according to the scientists, while humans may experience “substantial difficulties” in detecting aliens as they may not leave chemical fossils like life forms on Earth.

Might there be ET's who were smart enough long ago not to have designed an economy based on dead plants as an energy source? What if they are tens of thousands of years more technically advanced than us? A million years more advanced? Hundreds of millions of years more evolved than us? Will they have known about our existence for a long time?

trippie

I don't have much of an opinion on aliens or the rest of the cosmos, but....if there are any Aliens coming here to Earth, I would assume they are far more advanced then us. Why or why not make direct contact with us is totally coming from them knowing this, I would surmise.

Fidel

trippie wrote:

I don't have much of an opinion on aliens or the rest of the cosmos, but....if there are any Aliens coming here to Earth, I would assume they are far more advanced then us. Why or why not make direct contact with us is totally coming from them knowing this, I would surmise.

Yep, I wonder if for aliens that coming to earth wouldn't be like a visit to the zoo. I've been to the zoo, and I've wondered if I would be able to help the chimpanzees break out of prison or something. lol Give them an oxy-acetylene blow torch, a map and GPS, some black pygamas, repelling equipment and a pep talk. Would they understand me or eventually figure out how to use the high technology intended to boost their odds a little? Or would the odds be better that chimps evolved into a technically advanced species on some other planet?

In 2005 Paul Hellyer, former Canadian Minister of Dafence wrote:
"The United States military are preparing weapons which could be used against the aliens, and they could get us into an intergalactic war without us ever having any warning...The Bush Administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the goings and comings of the visitors from space, and to shoot at them, if they so decide."

trippie

The USA only needs Will Smith to fly into the Mothership and save the planet. All this money spent on the moon is waste. Or you know, these aliens will die because of the bacteria on earth that they are not immune to.

 

And besides, that aliens would come all the way here to exploit our resouces and us, for their form of Capitalism. Cause Capitalism is the best.

 

So what's out is Space? They're working on it I guess? But I do love looking at all those picture they take, quite amazing really.

 

I love when humans do extrodinary things like lounch rockets and put men on the moon.

Fidel

trippie wrote:
The USA only needs Will Smith to fly into the Mothership and save the planet.

I wonder where they got the wild idea that motherships are like a mile or two in length? Astronauts and cosmonauts would surely see something that size. Crazy.

trippie wrote:
Or you know, these aliens will die because of the bacteria on earth that they are not immune to.

That could be one reason why aliens aren't socializing with the general population, they're avoiding bacterial infections. I think there was a book written about it, Guns, Germans and Steel or something.

trippie wrote:
And besides, that aliens would come all the way here to exploit our resouces and us, for their form of Capitalism. Cause Capitalism is the best.

So that's why Darwin packed his bags and went on long voyages to remote islands. He needed money and so joined an exotic bird smuggling ring? I knew it. That capitalist dog!

Hurtin Albertan

I always like to imagine that some day we will discover we are just in the middle of a big petri dish.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

NASA FINDS EARTH-SIZE PLANET CANDIDATES IN HABITABLE ZONE, SIX PLANET SYSTEM

 

Location of planet Kepler-11

MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- NASA's Kepler mission has discovered its first Earth-size planet candidates and its first candidates in the habitable zone, a region where liquid water could exist on a planet's surface. Five of the potential planets are near Earth-size and orbit in the habitable zone of smaller, cooler stars than our sun.

Candidates require follow-up observations to verify they are actual planets. Kepler also found six confirmed planets orbiting a sun-like star, Kepler-11. This is the largest group of transiting planets orbiting a single star yet discovered outside our solar system.

"In one generation we have gone from extraterrestrial planets being a mainstay of science fiction, to the present, where Kepler has helped turn science fiction into today's reality," said NASA Administrator Charles Bolden. "These discoveries underscore the importance of NASA's science missions, which consistently increase understanding of our place in the cosmos."




photo of Bill Borucki, Kepler PI



Bill Borucki, Kepler PI



The discoveries are part of several hundred new planet candidates identified in new Kepler mission science data, released on Tuesday, Feb. 1. The findings increase the number of planet candidates identified by Kepler to-date to 1,235. Of these, 68 are approximately Earth-size; 288 are super-Earth-size; 662 are Neptune-size; 165 are the size of Jupiter and 19 are larger than Jupiter. Of the 54 new planet candidates found in the habitable zone, five are near Earth-sized. The remaining 49 habitable zone candidates range from super-Earth size -- up to twice the size of Earth -- to larger than Jupiter.

The findings are based on the results of observations conducted May 12 to Sept. 17, 2009, of more than 156,000 stars in Kepler's field of view, which covers approximately 1/400 of the sky.

"The fact that we've found so many planet candidates in such a tiny fraction of the sky suggests there are countless planets orbiting sun-like stars in our galaxy," said William Borucki of NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., the mission's science principal investigator. "We went from zero to 68 Earth-sized planet candidates and zero to 54 candidates in the habitable zone, some of which could have moons with liquid water."

Among the stars with planetary candidates, 170 show evidence of multiple planetary candidates. Kepler-11, located approximately 2,000 light years from Earth, is the most tightly packed planetary system yet discovered. All six of its confirmed planets have orbits smaller than Venus, and five of the six have orbits smaller than Mercury's. The only other star with more than one confirmed transiting planet is Kepler-9, which has three. The Kepler-11 findings will be published in the Feb. 3 issue of the journal Nature.




photo of Jack Lissauer, Kepler Co-Investigator



Jack Lissauer, Kepler Co-Investigator



"Kepler-11 is a remarkable system whose architecture and dynamics provide clues about its formation," said Jack Lissauer, a planetary scientist and Kepler science team member at Ames. "These six planets are mixtures of rock and gases, possibly including water. The rocky material accounts for most of the planets' mass, while the gas takes up most of their volume. By measuring the sizes and masses of the five inner planets, we determined they are among the lowest mass confirmed planets beyond our solar system."

All of the planets orbiting Kepler-11 are larger than Earth, with the largest ones being comparable in size to Uranus and Neptune. The innermost planet, Kepler-11b, is ten times closer to its star than Earth is to the sun. Moving outward, the other planets are Kepler-11c, Kepler-11d, Kepler-11e, Kepler-11f, and the outermost planet, Kepler-11g, which is half as far from its star as Earth is from the sun.

The planets Kepler-11d, Kepler-11e and Kepler-11f have a significant amount of light gas, which indicates that they formed within a few million years of the system's formation.

"The historic milestones Kepler makes with each new discovery will determine the course of every exoplanet mission to follow," said Douglas Hudgins, Kepler program scientist at NASA Headquarters in Washington.

Kepler, a space telescope, looks for planet signatures by measuring tiny decreases in the brightness of stars caused by planets crossing in front of them. This is known as a transit.
Since transits of planets in the habitable zone of sun-like stars occur about once a year and require three transits for verification, it is expected to take three years to locate and verify Earth-size planets orbiting sun-like stars.




photo of Debra Fischer



Debra Fischer



The Kepler science team uses ground-based telescopes and the Spitzer Space Telescope to review observations on planetary candidates and other objects of interest the spacecraft finds. The star field that Kepler observes in the constellations Cygnus and Lyra can only be seen from ground-based observatories in spring through early fall. The data from these other observations help determine which candidates can be validated as planets.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel,

Quote:
In 2005 Paul Hellyer, former Canadian Minister of Dafence wrote:

"The United States military are preparing weapons which could be used against the aliens, and they could get us into an intergalactic war without us ever having any warning...The Bush Administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the goings and comings of the visitors from space, and to shoot at them, if they so decide."

They would be in contravention of the Treaty of 1967 which states,

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This treaty became effective on January 27, 1967. As its name implies, the Outer Space Treaty prohibits placing into orbit around the Earth any objects carrying nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction, the installation of such weapons on celestial bodies, or their stationing in outer space in any other manner. Also forbidden are the establishment of military bases, installations, and fortifications; the testing of any type of weapons; and the conduct .
See:The Outer Space Treaty of 1967

Fidel

From what i've read I was beginning to think the end of man would be caused by plagues or by nano-weaponry, chemical or biological WMD. And that's an increasingly realistic danger. I've read where nuclear weapons are considered passe by modern militarists and would-be megalomaniacs. Not nuclear? Not again, I thought. Way too messy and damages too much real estate in trying to imagine myself one of the most insane people ever to be in charge of things.

And I wish it was true. I, too,  thought that since the end of cold war international leaders have finally come to their senses and began to realize that nuclear weapons should be decommissioned, dismantled, and scrapped for all time. And lots of people believe that this must surely be the case today after such a costly cold war that almost resulted in the end of habitable earth. But it's not true. Star Wars plans to weaponize space during the Reagan era was a reality, and it looks as if space is the final frontier for world domination. The irony of it is that the country with the most to lose in space are the cold war victors. Their economic and forward operating military dependence on satellite communications makes the US the most vulnerable to disruptions by relatively cheap methods of anti-satellite weaponry. I believe we've reached the edge and staring over the abyss. This is the last window of opportunity to end the madness. Mankind is now standing before the dreaded precipice.

Fidel

from [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/humanities-science/space-whats-out-there-ii#...

Bill Borucki wrote:
"The fact that we've found so many planet candidates in such a tiny fraction of the sky suggests there are countless planets orbiting sun-like stars in our galaxy," said William Borucki of NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., the mission's science principal investigator. "We went from zero to 68 Earth-sized planet candidates and zero to 54 candidates in the habitable zone, some of which could have moons with liquid water."

Will we ever look up at the skies again in the same way? Are there intelligent beings out there looking back at us right now? I think this is the beginning of what will be the most important event in history for mankind. And I really don't think we have to worry about them coming to raid what's left of our oil and gas reserves. I think it is ridiculous to assume an intelligent species is still dependent on oil or was ever. Hawking was surely pulling our legs with his warning. If they do come here or contact us, then I think it will be for a much more important purpose than imperialism.

What if there is a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bDIXvpjnRws]monol...(YouTube) on one of the moons orbiting Mars? The moons of Mars are thought to be captured asteroids.

[url=http://www.space.com/8222-obama-aims-send-astronauts-asteroid-mars.html]... Aims to Send Astronauts to an Asteroid, Then to Mars[/url]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/Capture-45.gif[/IMG]

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

(click on image for larger viewing)

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Arp 147 contains a spiral galaxy (right) that collided with an elliptical galaxy (left), triggering a wave of star formation. Credit: X-ray: NASA/CXC/MIT/S.Rappaport et al, Optical: NASA/STScI

See:Triggering a Wave of Star Formation.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

(Click on Image for Larger Viewing)

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This swirling landscape of stars is known as the North American nebula. In visible light, the region resembles North America, but in this new infrared view from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, the continent disappears. Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech
See: New View of Family Life in the North American Nebula

 

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The North America Nebula
Credit & Copyright: Jason Ware

Explanation: Here's a familiar shape in an unfamiliar location! This emission nebula is famous partly because it resembles Earth's continent of North America. To the right of the North America Nebula, cataloged as NGC 7000, is a less luminous Pelican Nebula. The two emission nebula measure about 50 light-years across, are located about 1500 light-years away, and are separated by a dark absorption cloud. The nebulae can be seen with binoculars from a dark location. Look for a small nebular patch north-east of bright star Deneb in the constellation of Cygnus. It is still unknown which star or stars ionize the red-glowing hydrogen gas.

Caissa

After more than eight months locked in a windowless capsule, researchers on a mock trip to Mars ventured from their cramped quarters in heavy space suits Monday, trudging into a sand-covered room to plant flags on a simulated Red Planet.

The all-male crew of three Russians, a Frenchman, an Italian-Colombian and a Chinese entered a network of modules at a Moscow space research centre last June to imitate the 520-day flight and see how they cope with the constricted, isolating conditions of space travel - minus the weightlessness.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2011/02/14/mars-500-mission-russia.html#ixzz1DxvHaVjQ

Fidel

[url=If">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870395660457610989164175780... You Don't Like This Universe…[/url] Brian Greene and David Gelernter discuss alternate realities, like a cosmos with a Jets-Bears Super Bowl

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The physicist and best-selling author Brian Greene makes a striking argument in his new book: that there may be countless universes out there, some with exact replicas of us. We invited the computer scientist David Gelernter to interview Mr. Greene about "The Hidden Reality: Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos."

Okay so we line up all duplicates of you, babbler you, yourself, thee and so on , and ask them, Will the real you please step forward? Which of them will answer, 'Yo! Here I am, you fools!' ?

Fidel

[url=http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/Guy%20Hottel%20Part%201%20of%201/view]Guy Hottel's FBI memo[/url] From the real X-Files

3 crashed saucers approx. 50 feet in diameter, check

9 bodies approx. 3 feet tall, check

And then 24 hrs l8r, the elite USAF 509th bomber group suddenly realized they were looking at weather balloons? The same guys who were entrusted with delivering atomic bombs over Japan a couple of years before?

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I know other astronauts share my feelings.... And we know the government is sitting on hard evidence of UFOs.- former Col. Gordon Cooper, Project Mercury astronaut, January 14, 1997

 

sknguy II

Fidel wrote:

Okay so we line up all duplicates of you, babbler you, yourself, thee and so on , and ask them, Will the real you please step forward? Which of them will answer, 'Yo! Here I am, you fools!' ?

I understand a bit of what Greene and others suggest when they talk about duplicates of our universe. But I don't understand what they are implying when they go so far as to suggest duplicates of our individual selves. I do totally agree that our underrstanding of the size, or boundary, of the universe has always been expanding. And I can understand how the expansion of our knowledge is taking us to theories on multiverses. But, like you, I also have trouble resolving how repreatable, mirror-like, or multiversal human nature can be. Brings new meaning to the phrase "we think as one".

This is an interesting article on dark energy and how it relates to multiverse theories. I think understanding dark-matter, dark-energy or dark-forces could go a long way to resolving Einstein's conundrum.

Fidel

I have no idea, but it's fascinating just the same. A man and wife astronomer team in the US recently compared dark flow of the universe to a partial carton of milk. The contents of the carton seem to be sliding in one direction at a million miles per hour, they said. It's suggested that there is something very large out there beyond the edge of the universe and pulling all of the galaxies in its direction. I think the article you pointed us to, Sknguy,  suggests something similar. Could it be another universe? Or is there a simpler explanation? In any event, it looks like they are stuck with dark energy for a while. Mysterious dark energy apparently makes up some large percentage of the matter in the universe, and they know very little about it. Does DE represent Einstein's cosmological constant? Some physicists think so.

sknguy II

There's a lot more in the palms of our hands than we realize. And the "edge of the universe" could be just a metaphor for something that's likely not far from our reaches. Dark-whatever is likely the link to the multiverse. Einstein couldn't link the relationship between space-time and matter, or general and special relativity, into a theory of everything. What flavour of string theory holds true will likely resolve that. And I think DE is very much a part of the relationship. On an aside, at anoither forum I posted a newbee question about wanting to understand the relationship between matter and space-time. And the best response I got was "Most people spend their lives trying to understand that relationsiip." Embarassed

Fidel

That's a good question. I don't know either other than to repeat what I've read. Space-time, according to Einstein and so on, is like a flowing river. It can have branches and fork into new paths. And space-time can result in whirlpools apparently. I think the whirlpools may be black holes or perhaps wormholes. Einstein said, through his equations, that it may be possible to travel in time through hyperspace by way of wormholes. No one knows if this would ever be possible. It may be possible in the distant future given a certain amount of human evolution and plenty of technological advancement. We haven't been a technically advanced species for very long at all. 

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13081831]UFO sightings have been made public by the FBI[/url] BBC interview with Nick Pope. Nothing astounding about the FBI releases. Something for skeptics and believers alike, and a lot of the reports were nonsense as well.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture



Three dimensional Cartesian coordinate system with the x-axis pointing towards the observer

 

 

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Space is the boundless, three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction.[1] Physical space is often conceived in three linear dimensions, although modern physicists usually consider it, with time, to be part of the boundless four-dimensional continuum known as spacetime. In mathematics one examines 'spaces' with different numbers of dimensions and with different underlying structures. The concept of space is considered to be of fundamental importance to an understanding of the physical universe although disagreement continues between philosophers over whether it is itself an entity, a relationship between entities, or part of a conceptual framework.

The definitions of Space are a necessary part of workng toward what others may be saying. Is Greene talking about symmetry?

Fidel

I think he's talking about curved space(Einstein), curvilinear space, "D branes", "flops", phase diagrams etc. He's talking about compact dimensions far too small to see with the human eye and perhaps dimensions which may be far too large to observe with the human eye. I dunno about all those fancy ideas. But I think he is definitely not describing things in terms of flat world Euclidean geometry. 

I think some of these modern day theoretical physicists believe that study of the very small, the sub-atomic and quantum, is a model of the universe all around us. And I don't really understand what they are talking about. Not a lot.

Spectrum wrote:
The definitions of Space are a necessary part of workng toward what others may be saying. Is Greene talking about symmetry?

I'm not sure. My understanding of symmetry is what existed at the moment before big bang. Everything there is in the universe today was once compressed into an infinitely small and hot tiny bit of something or other called the singularity. 14 billion years ago, nothing existed outside of it, not gravity, time nor light or anything else that they know of. And ever since then everything is increasingly non-symetrical since expansion of the universe began. And now they realize there is a mysterious force causing everything to expand at a greater rate than they can account for given the previously estimated amount of matter in the universe. There is something else out there, and they think it's dark energy and representing Einstein's cosmological constant. I think Einstein made it up for the sake of making his equations balance, but now it's thought to be real.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Illustration of Antimatter/Matter Annihilation. (NASA/CXC/M. Weiss)

 

Antigravity Could Replace Dark Energy as Cause of Universe’s Expansion

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The gravitational behavior of antimatter is still unknown. While we may be confident that antimatter is self-attractive, the interaction between matter and antimatter might be either attractive or repulsive. We investigate this issue on theoretical grounds. Starting from the CPT invariance of physical laws, we transform matter into antimatter in the equations of both electrodynamics and gravitation. In the former case, the result is the well-known change of sign of the electric charge. In the latter, we find that the gravitational interaction between matter and antimatter is a mutual repulsion, i.e. antigravity appears as a prediction of general relativity when CPT is applied. This result supports cosmological models attempting to explain the Universe accelerated expansion in terms of a matter-antimatter repulsive interaction.
See: CPT symmetry and antimatter gravity in general relativity(http://iopscience.iop.org/0295-5075/94/2/20001/)

Spectrum Spectrum's picture
Spectrum Spectrum's picture

If you want to learn more about the history of Earth and other rocky planets in the solar system, craters are a great place to look. Now, thanks to LRO's LROC instrument, we can take a much closer look at Linné Crater on the moon--a pristine crater that's great to use to compare with other craters! See: LRO's Crater Science Investigations

The life cycle of a lunar impact and associated time and special scales. The LCROSS measurement methods are “layered” in response to the rapidly evolving impact environment. See: Impact:Lunar CRater Observation Satellite (LCROSS)

Data from the ultraviolet/visible spectrometer taken shortly after impact showing emission lines (indicated by arrows). These emission lines are diagnostic of compounds in the vapor/debris cloud.
Credit: NASA

LCROSS Impact Data Indicates Water on Moon11.13.09

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Space Shuttle Endeavour

 

By recording the traces cosmic rays make as they pass through, the AMS might uncover a universe that is now invisible. Although Ting is hesitant to make predictions about what the instrument will find, he said the instrument was designed with dark matter and antimatter in mind. Very little is known about dark matter although it makes up an estimated 90 percent of the mass in the universe.

Although Earth-based facilities have been built to create powerful streams of subatomic particles, Ting said their limits are more than 14 million times weaker than the power produced by cosmic rays in space.

"No matter how large an accelerator you build, you're not going to compete with space," Ting told reporters recently. Ting offered the news media a close look at the AMS before it was packed for loading into Endeavour's cargo bay for launch.
See: AMS to Focus on Invisible Universe

sknguy II

Ah... AMS must be why Endevour's trip will be the Canadarm's final shuttle mission. This observatory should bring a whole slew of new questions... cool. Thanks Spectrum.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Hey no problem sknguyII,

ULF6 STS-134 Endeavour May 2011 ELC3 and AMS

Look to where experiment is located on space station

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Space Applications

AMS-02 will provide a plethora of cosmic ray data that will help to advance and perhaps redefine much of what we know about the Low Earth Orbit space radiation environment.Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer - 02 (AMS-02)

If you follow many earth based experiments going on with regard to the idea of cosmic particle collisions this is a project well in hand and in relation to the man-made experiments going on at the LHC, ICECUBE and SNO etc.


Something disturbing though is what is speculated about strangelets with which I thought had been long resolved according to LHC investigations? It seems to have reappeared, is quite shocking really for me considering the responses to the disaster scenarios speculated by court challenges not so long ago.

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Peter Steinberg, when at Quantum diaries, lead us through this.

The creepy part of these kind of discussions is that one doesn't say that RHIC collisions "create" black holes, but that nucleus-nucleus collisions, and even proton-proton collisions, are in some sense black holes, albeit black holes in some sort of "dual" space which makes the theory easier.

The statements made by proponents of the LHC to quell the fear mongering that went on as long as those disaster scenarios played out n in experimental backdrops revealed in the collision process.

 

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Gamma-ray bursts. We tend to think of them as big explosions - but it has been suggested that they might actually be Small Bangs. Credit: NASA.
 

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Most gamma-ray bursts come in two flavors. Firstly, there are long duration bursts which form in dense star-forming regions and are associated with supernovae – which would understandably generate a sustained outburst of energy. The technical definition of a long duration gamma-ray burst is one that is more than two seconds in duration – but bursts lasting over a minute are not unusual.

Short duration gamma-ray bursts more often occur in regions of low star formation and are not associated with supernovae. Their duration is technically less than 2 seconds, but a duration of only a few milliseconds is not unusual. These are assumed to result from collisions between massive compact objects – perhaps neutron stars or black holes – producing a short, sharp outburst of energy. See: Astronomy Without A Telescope – Small Bangs by Steve Nerlich on May 21, 2011 On Universe Today

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

3-day Solar-Geophysical Forecast issued May 27 22:00 UTC
Solar Activity Forecast: Solar activity is expected to be low with a chance for C-class events, and a slight chance for an M-class event, as regions on the disk continue to evolve.


Geophysical Activity Forecast: The geomagnetic field is expected to be predominately unsettled with occasional active periods, including isolated minor storm conditions at high-latitudes for day one (28 May). This is expected due to effects from the recurrent coronal hole high speed stream (CH HSS). In addition there are possible effects from the disappearing filament observed on 25 May. Quiet to unsettled conditions, with isolated active levels, are expected for days two and three (29-30 May) with continued CH HSS effects.  See: Today's Space Weather

***

The plots on this page show the current extent and position of the auroral oval at each pole, extrapolated from measurements taken during the most recent polar pass of the NOAA POES satellite. "Center time" is the calculated time halfway through the satellite's pass over the pole.Auroral Activity Extrapolated from NOAA POES

Fidel
Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Hi Fidel,

An interesting concept that speaks too...

Concept of the Alcubierre drive, showing the opposing regions of expanding and contracting spacetime that propel the central region

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The Alcubierre drive, also known as the Alcubierre metric, is a speculative mathematical model of a spacetime exhibiting features reminiscent of the fictional "warp drive" from Star Trek, which can travel "faster than light", although not in a local sense.

See Also: Hypothetical Methods of Space Craft propulsion

 

Best,

 

Fidel

Canadian scientists 'bottle' antimatter for 16 minutes!

So why do we exist as matter and not antimatter? Why can there be both positive and negative solutions to quadratic equations?

Will understanding antimatter be the dawn of limitless future energy and a better world?

Ward

So 2 lights travelling towards each other disapears "antilight" at twiice the speed of light?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
Will understanding antimatter be the dawn of limitless future energy and a better world?

Back in 2005 I had copied this quote.

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Can we hope to use antimatter as a source of energy? Do you feel antimatter could power vehicles in the future, or would it just be used for major power sources?
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There is no possibility to use antimatter as energy "source". Unlike solar energy, coal or oil, antimatter does not occur in nature: we have to make every particle at the expense of much more energy than it can give back during annihilation. You might imagine antimatter as a possible temporary storage medium for energy, much like you store electricity in rechargeable batteries. The process of charging the battery is reversible with relatively small loss. Still, it takes more energy to charge the battery than what you get back out of it. For antimatter the loss factors are so enormous that it will never be practical. If we could assemble all the antimatter we've ever made at CERN and annihilate it with matter, we would have enough energy to light a single electric light bulb for a few minutes.

Also this as well,

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Into the Antiworld was originally staged at CERN inside the underground cavern that houses the Delphi experiment, in which collisions between electrons and their antiparticles - positrons - are studied. That setting must have been awe-inspiring, particularly as the show closed. The audience would have been whisked from the wonder and novelty of Dirac's theory over 70 years ago to the sophisticated particle physics experiments of today that the discovery inspired. At CERN, the curtain behind the stage ripped apart to reveal the Delphi detector the performance ended - but the gigantic photograph of the Delphi experiment that concluded the show at the Bloomsbury worked surprisingly well.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

The following below was part of a blog post entry I had done some time back when the Angel and Demon's show was featured

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``For me, the most attractive way ... would be to capture the antihydrogen in a neutral particle trap ... The objective would be to then study the properties of a small number of [antihydrogen] atoms confined in the neutral trap for a long time."Gerald Gabrielse, 1986 Erice Lecture (shortly after first trapping of antiprotons) "Penning Traps, Masses and Antiprotons", in Fundamental Symmetries, edited by P. Bloch, P. Paulopoulos and R. Klapisch, p. 59 (Plenum, New York, 1987). See:Goals for ATRAP

Perhaps you may see some familiarities with research material that may insight some correlative recognitions of events as they are portrayed in the science fiction scenario portrayed in the plot? So of course you do your homework first, and then you write about it?

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The techniques for slowing, cooling and storing cold antiprotons make it possible for ATRAP and its competitors to pursue the production of antihydrogen that is cold enough to trap for precise laser spectroscopy. TRAP got extremely close to cold antihydrogen with our simultaneous confinement of 4.2 K antiprotons and positrons reported in 1999. All the initial cold antiproton experiments were carried out at the CERN Laboratory with antiprotons coming from its Low Energy Antiproton Ring (LEAR), a unique facility that then closed. Antihydrogen experiments in 2000 and beyond will be pursued at the new Antiproton Decelerator ring of CERN which was constructed for this purpose. Using the techniques developed by TRAP, antiprotons will be accumulated within traps rather than in storage rings, thereby reducing the operating expenses to CERN.

I finished the book Angel and Demons a couple of days ago. I've had the book for sometime, but just hadn't bothered. I needed a little break from the reporting here so thought to immerse myself in some reading, knowing the movie is out there now.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

More on the subject here as well.

So, every "story line" is about a Journey? IN Angel and Demons, we follow the story of Professor Robert Langdon.

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Use of the film poster in the article complies with Wikipedia non-free content policy and fair use under United States copyright law as described above.

 

The Vatican summons Professor Robert Langdon (Tom Hanks) and Vittoria Vetra (Ayelet Zurer) from CERN to help them solve the Illuminati's threat, save the four preferiti, and find the hidden bomb. Langdon listens to the Illuminati message and deduces that the four cardinals will die at the four altars of the Path of Illumination. See: Angels and Demons

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Fidel wrote:

Will understanding antimatter be the dawn of limitless future energy and a better world?

 

In 2008 I had written this as well....to give you an idea

 


All M.C. Escher works (c) 2001 Cordon Art BV - Baarn - the Netherlands. All rights reserved.
www.mcescher.com

 


The Devil, is in the details of a Mirror World?

While the "true cast" is here? :)

Mirror world or Alice in Wonderland, we have a unique way of adding the incredibility to the credible?

Mike Stirner

The problem with peeps like steve is that they are to confined by the newtonian.aristotalian coplex to be a little imaginative, I tend to take things in this video at face value as far as things in space

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKiJDIYoQgw&feature=feedf

Fidel

Scientists have basically decentralized space, Mike. Anything's possible now, including the possibility that market ideology works in some parallel universe. 

Mike Stirner

Well scientists have been retarding themselves for that last 2000 years is what is actually the case, the greatest of human intellectual endeavers in places like vedic india or pre han iching china or mayan mesoamerica have not exactly been properly updated, what we have had is 2000 years of aristotalian idiocy with roman/egyptian/messapotamian backed historical force.

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Ah Mike it's really not that difficult to think outside of the way you've always thought? With a "little more information" things change, and perspective can change.

I think market ideology "is a algorithm" that was developed to see if it could fly, and of course,  with us as consumers we make it happen?:) Does it ever fail.....we may not yet all recognize the signals.....yet some may, and do.

Strange things can still happen out of the norm in the world that defies our logic and reasoning? Why would one question one's reality based on spirituality, or,  if they talk to plants. Speak to animals, or,  fly in their dreams. if it works for them...... why are there are some scientists who can work outside of that mainstream and feel okay with that....I wish I had examples.  They leave room for the subjectivity of experience with the hopes people can bring something out of it.

I believe it would be a serious mistake not to have some grounding factor,  as an inductive/deductive relationship with the world. Something that we all can test and try. Would you throw out the Justice system?

 

Mike Stirner

Well the problem with the grounding factor is the aristotalianisation of it that we are currently caged in spec, the idiot in that painting pointing his finger downward and subsequently debasing the imagination and the possibilities of transfiguration. I very much agree with Nietzsche's call to defy gravity within as much practicality as possible, this is not to say that conratized aspects of our existence should be ignored untill they are possibly dissolved. Imagine if these intesified technological adendums based on the technics of the printing press and the steam engine+oil had been made to iching or vedic or mayan based discourses as opposed to the boring groudless grounding of aristotalian assumptions backed by the roman ordering machine that it played surrogate to, perhaps we'd be playing with wormholes by now or doing the post earth colony thing. As Jared Diamond descriptively points out, these things come down to happy or tragic accidents, but we have the hindsight to see these tragedies and simply start flying yesterday already, give those inductive/deductive aristotalian usefull fiktions some wings and the scientists something to be gay about.

To answer you're last Q, I would never have brought it in in the first place, terms like justice are perfect examples of overlocalised inside-outside organizational definitions and assumptions that are devoid of emergent spatial twists and turns.

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Look towards center of picture

Quote:

PLato said,"Look to the perfection of the heavens for truth," while Aristotle said "look around you at what is, if you would know the truth"

Michael wrote:
Well the problem with the grounding factor is the aristotalianisation of it that we are currently caged in spec, the idiot in that painting pointing his finger downward and subsequently debasing the imagination and the possibilities of transfiguration.

Ah yes you can see the relationship between Plato and Aristotle in the painting by Raphael? Because it resides in the signatory's room in the Vatican does not give credence to the Catholic church itself but is a recognition by Raphael of what is current as a grounding factor proposed by Aristotle.

Michael wrote:
To answer you're last Q, I would never have brought it in in the first place, terms like justice are perfect examples of overlocalised inside-outside organizational definitions and assumptions that are devoid of emergent spatial twists and turns.

It is a Socratic method of approach, not only in Justice, but of education itself. Would you overhaul both. Do you have some technological means? Sports?

Mike Stirner

Well on plato I tend to think that for the most part you can look at his analysis as simply a metophorical explanation of the world, I prefer how the taoist do it compared to him but I do think adendums to his thought like North whitehead bring more to the table then you're run of the mill reductionists, at the end of the day you cant avoid things like metaphor as a means of explaining the world so lets awknowledge this and bring back some aesthetics and imagination into the process, I tend to think the mind based view of phenomena has been proven the more correct analysis and seems to be backed up in such things as quantum mechanics and over all has provided better analysis and thinkers respectively.

Would I overhaul justice and education, yes at least in their in-out intentional forms, I think that an emergence theory and practice of human relations can better make up for these things, I posted a video displaying the power of emergent education in another thread, I think you can apply that to anything in human relations, organizational theory should be after the fact concerning emergent things on the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU

Fidel

"Well other than the fact that improper replication of the DNA molecule causes disease, we've understood nothing else". 

Apparently they did understand something very important. And they hadn't studied English. Amazing.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:
The idea that truth is timeless and resides outside the universe was the essence of Plato's philosophy, exemplified in the parable of the slave boy that was meant to argue that discovery is merely remembering. Lee Smolin

Bold added for me for emphasis....as well as saying that this philosophy is not "outside of time."

Mike Stirner wrote:
Well on plato I tend to think that for the most part you can look at his analysis as simply a metophorical explanation of the world

Our attempt to justify our beliefs logically by giving reasons results in the "regress of reasons." Since any reason can be further challenged, the regress of reasons threatens to be an infinite regress. However, since this is impossible, there must be reasons for which there do not need to be further reasons: reasons which do not need to be proven. By definition, these are "first principles." The "Problem of First Principles" arises when we ask Why such reasons would not need to be proven. Aristotle's answer was that first principles do not need to be proven because they are self-evident, i.e. they are known to be true simply by understanding them.

Yes no doubt. But as you look through the experiment present by Youtube something very important is realized that as a "data base" and Google's connection to it,  allow an excursion for children that we would want applied to "all thinking beings"  as  a vast resource made available to them, having considered the Grandmothers as part of the cloud of encouragement toward progressing and developing. Teachers can come in many forms?

So yes I see education in this way as well...but imagine if such a data base is taken away......imagine being devoid of the technology?

You want to see the children apply such a tool .....being devoid of the technology as to a method inherent in their own design and makeup which will grant them the same benefits as you would have,  having gone through such an experiment?

What did they learn that was algorithmic pleasing that Arthur C Clarke might embrace as to all teachers? Replace teachers with Grandmother Cloud?

These things are being considered now in the future development of education as I have research it.....but there is something deeper that must be transmitted that can only be done with the interaction of the teachers....while still accessing that data, you still need the teachers there.

Imagine a "gogle search feature" as the very last "self evident question." This is internal and not attached to the keyboard computerized developer algorithmic code,  but is a feature of the human being searching, looking for answers, and becoming their own teachers as well as students. This the independence you want transmitted to children from teachers, as well as too,  adults in my view. The teacher, and student are one.

You of course recognize the grounding factor...all I am saying is this inductive /deductive process is part of the need for individuals to excel, regardless of that technology.

 

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The Pyramid(as an expression of Liberal Arts Encapsulated) is a combination of  the Trivium , and  the Quadrivium

 

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 Painting by Cesare Maccari (1840-1919), Cicero Denounces Catiline.

 the trivium

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Space: What's out there!

One has to assume a foundational perspective from which one can look at the universe?

If You Can't Trust a Sock Monkey Your Soul is Dead

Did Plato' summation reveal attributes of the Near Death Experience? I wonder?

It seems logical to me if you study from that standpoint, then this too would appear as if it is a subject "outside of time."  The assumption is that in order to remember we have to remove "the coat... we put on  in order to strip away how forgetfulness is changed by our immersion into the matter states? If everythng already exists in the universe that ever was, and ever will be, then this too would include, birth and death?

Everything then,  exists in this space? You try to tap into that?

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