2019 UK election 2

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MegB
2019 UK election 2

Continued from here.

Issues Pages: 
Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Thanks for starting the new thread, MegB.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Newest poll has the Tory lead at only six points, in line with most recent polls showing the race tightening:  

Cons 39%

Labour 33%

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-latest-p...

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

"Centrist" MPs who defected from Labour all on course to lose seats:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-poll-cen...

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The photo that sums up the imbalance of wealth in Britain

Cliff Judson's photo highlighting the imbalance of wealth in the capital went viral

NDPP

Poll Reveals the Tories Have A 13 Point Lead Over Corbyn

https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1201161602109759488

"Labour erupts into civil war and blames pro-Remain MPs for the loss of Brexit-backing voters as yet another poll shows them behind in the polls."

 

"We did warn that spending 2 years trying to crush people's vote would not swiftly be forgotten. Adding a last minute round of gaslighting to the mix is hardly a panacea."

https://twitter.com/labourleave/status/1200164018142535681

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Election 2019: Transatlantic socialism rising

The ‘green new deal’ (GND) can appear an odd frame for climate justice organisers in the UK. After all, the UK never had an original New Deal. This was presumably the thinking behind Labour’s attempt to rebrand it as a ’green industrial revolution’, capturing the historic resonance of an important period of economic and social development for a project of rapid national mobilisation on the interlinked issues of climate change and economic transformation.

The energy among the Labour grassroots, however, has stuck with the notion of a GND, which in Labour’s conference policy includes a 2030 decarbonisation target and a just transition for affected workers. The frame has cachet not because British voters have developed an overnight affection for Franklin D Roosevelt, but because the GND today connotes something different – a movement and policy connection with the most progressive elements of the US left, typified by Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Senator Bernie Sanders.

This connection is not imaginary. Indeed the connections between the US and British socialist movements have become deeper and the fruits of their cooperation increasingly concrete. Sanders now speaks of public ownership of utilities and renewable power generation – a concept foreign to his 2016 campaign – while Labour has committed to deeper and faster decarbonisation than in 2017.

Ownership funds

The Democracy Collaborative has facilitated some of these exchanges, particularly on the issue of worker ownership and control. This includes the proposal to mandate worker-controlled ownership funds in major companies. These would be asset-locked and risk-free for workers. They would pay an annual dividend but otherwise be non-tradeable, giving workers an incentive to use their ownership stake to increase wages and agitate for better conditions and control rather than maximising share values and selling to the highest bidder.

Just as financial deregulation and the ‘right to buy’ council homes gave many British workers a direct stake in the individualised capitalism of the 1980s onwards, ownership funds would be a direct and tangible link between economic democracy and workers’ pockets – and a model for further democratisation later. The strategic dimension is important here. Labour’s economic programme needs to provide immediate and tangible benefits to maintain consent for the deepening of a democratic socialist programme.

NDPP

Sorry no 'deepening of a democratic socialist programme' allowed under existing EU neoliberal rules and regulations, no matter how badly Labour wishes to suck and blow simultaneously on this issue.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Poll Reveals the Tories Have A 13 Point Lead Over Corbyn

https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1201161602109759488

"Labour erupts into civil war and blames pro-Remain MPs for the loss of Brexit-backing voters as yet another poll shows them behind in the polls."

At least half of Labour voters are Remainers. They support Labour's election platform and remaining in the EU, which can be done simultaneously.

The biggest mistake Labour has made during this election has been allowing itself to be represented by a leader with extremely low approval ratings.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

Sorry no 'deepening of a democratic socialist programme' allowed under existing EU neoliberal rules and regulations, no matter how badly Labour wishes to suck and blow simultaneously on this issue.

Someone should tell that to the EU's social democratic countries that are much more socialist than the UK.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Poll Reveals the Tories Have A 13 Point Lead Over Corbyn

https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1201161602109759488

"Labour erupts into civil war and blames pro-Remain MPs for the loss of Brexit-backing voters as yet another poll shows them behind in the polls."

At least half of Labour voters are Remainers. They support Labour's election platform and remaining in the EU, which can be done simultaneously.

The biggest mistake Labour has made during this election has been allowing itself to be represented by a leader with extremely low approval ratings.

1) He's only seen a drop in popularity due to four years or relentless Tory/BBC/Murdoch lies.  The man hasn't actually done anything wrong.

2)As quoted upthread The polls show that Labour's position on the EU issue is more popular than than either "no-deal Brexit" OR "Revoke Article 50".

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Sorry no 'deepening of a democratic socialist programme' allowed under existing EU

..lets be clear, it's not the eu saying it can't be done it's ndpp saying this. the only way to find out in reality is to go for it..just like struggles everywhere. meanwhile it's the same struggle as a brexit struggle would need to be to remain out of the eu clutches. 

..the reality of this election is not the same as the struggle against the eu be it via brexit hard or soft. the struggle of this election is to elect a labour government. to do this labour has to attract votes re remain, leave and otherwise. to not see this one must have to deny reality. so going around blaming leave or remain would be counter productive. 

..and the best chance of labour winning the election lies in it's manifesto. 

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Poll Reveals the Tories Have A 13 Point Lead Over Corbyn

https://twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/1201161602109759488

"Labour erupts into civil war and blames pro-Remain MPs for the loss of Brexit-backing voters as yet another poll shows them behind in the polls."

 

S0 using the numbers from the poll referenced in that tweet, Labour should concentrate on the 10% of their 2017 vote that has moved to the Tories and Brexit, ignore the 10% that has moved to the Lib Dems and Greens, and tell the 75% of their current vote that supports Remain to go stuff themselves.

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

As usual, epaulo says what needs to be said. Thanks.

JKR

Ken Burch wrote:

1) He's only seen a drop in popularity due to four years or relentless Tory/BBC/Murdoch lies.  The man hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I agree that Corbyn has been treated unfairly but politics is usually very unfair especially to left of centre politicians. I think it made no sense for Labour to enter this election with an extremely unpopular leader, even though it was very unfair how Corbyn's unpopularity was created. Labour is now fighting a huge uphill battle because they are coming from far behind and it's actually impressive that they are over 30% in the polls. I think Labour would be in first place or close to first place if they were being led by someone with even just neutral approval ratings.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

JKR wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

1) He's only seen a drop in popularity due to four years or relentless Tory/BBC/Murdoch lies.  The man hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I agree that Corbyn has been treated unfairly but politics is usually very unfair especially to left of centre politicians. I think it made no sense for Labour to enter this election with an extremely unpopular leader, even though it was very unfair how Corbyn's unpopularity was created. Labour is now fighting a huge uphill battle because they are coming from far behind and it's actually impressive that they are over 30% in the polls. I think Labour would be in first place or close to first place if they were being led by someone with even just neutral approval ratings.

As I have pointed out in previous posts, if there were another Labour leader with the same policies as Corbyn, that leader would also have been demonized by the same people who demonized Corbyn, using the same methods. Sooner or later, you just have to defeat them with the leader you have, or they will always win.

 

JKR

Michael Moriarity wrote:

As I have pointed out in previous posts, if there were another Labour leader with the same policies as Corbyn, that leader would also have been demonized by the same people who demonized Corbyn, using the same methods. Sooner or later, you just have to defeat them with the leader you have, or they will always win.

 

It seems to me it is very difficult to win with a leader who has very low approval ratings. I think sticking with leaders with low approval ratings is a strategy that will likely fail in the short term and long term. If a few months ago Labour had chosen another leader with the same policies as Corbyn, that person's approval ratings would most likely currently be much higher than Corbyn's and that new relatively untarnished person might now be in first place in the election opinion polls. I think winning this election should be much more important to Labour members than winning their party's civil war. Stopping Boris from implementing his version of Brexit should be priority number 1. I think if Brexit goes through it will be a watershed moment in UK history and which party is in power will determine if it is a positive or negative event. 

nicky

As usual Ken grasps at any straw to support his Corbynite myopia.

He is only unpopular because the evil Blairites have demonized him.

Labour is only 6% behind , citing the single poll that shows the margin that close and not the rest which average out to an 11% Tory lead.

JKR is exactly right that Corbyn unpopularity severely handicaps Labour. The current government is deservedly unpopular but stands to win almost exclusively because Corbyn is so sweepingly unpopularity.

It was so irresponsible for Corbyn to cling to the leadership and not only doom Labour to another defeat but re-elect a truly awful government. Corbyn will bear the opprobrium of history and the thanks of the Conservatives. What an useful idiot.

Meanwhile, here is a more clinical assessment of what awaits Labour after Corbyn’s defeat on Dec. 12:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/could-corbyn-cling-on-if-labour-lose/

NDPP

Labour Won't Transform Our Economy

https://t.co/xUmH3DCSZ9

"Labour's manifesto is published with the desperate hope that its green spending plans, an end to student tuition fees, providing student maintenance grants and the offer of free broadband for all can be so appealing to voters that it will camouflage the party's rejection of the Brexit vote - the very issue that precipitated this election."

 

WATCH: Corbyn 'Make It Clear'...

http://rabble.ca/comment/5661151#comment-5661151

 

The Idea that Corbyn is 'Neutral' on Brexit is Nonsense

https://twitter.com/tfbrexit/status/1200853687062671360

"Corbyn coming into power will not only mean that  Brexit does not happen in any meaningful way but as a direct result of staying under EU regulations, many of his economic promises will also come to nothing..."

 

"Since Labour is now touting for Leave voters, here is a useful list of those Labour MPs who have taken a pledge to campaign for Remain in any second referendum."

https://twitter.com/JamesHeartfield/status/1200187891072278534

NDPP

Labour's Red Wall is Looking Shaky...

https://twitter.com/PeterRamsay2011/status/1201411061188087808

"The penny finally drops at The Guardian. 'In the absence of Brexit being delivered, why should voters trust politicians to do anything else?"

That's what party fandoms are for. Always cheer never question.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

JKR wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

As I have pointed out in previous posts, if there were another Labour leader with the same policies as Corbyn, that leader would also have been demonized by the same people who demonized Corbyn, using the same methods. Sooner or later, you just have to defeat them with the leader you have, or they will always win.

 

It seems to me it is very difficult to win with a leader who has very low approval ratings. I think sticking with leaders with low approval ratings is a strategy that will likely fail in the short term and long term. If a few months ago Labour had chosen another leader with the same policies as Corbyn, that person's approval ratings would most likely currently be much higher than Corbyn's and that new relatively untarnished person might now be in first place in the election opinion polls. I think winning this election should be much more important to Labour members than winning their party's civil war. Stopping Boris from implementing his version of Brexit should be priority number 1. I think if Brexit goes through it will be a watershed moment in UK history and which party is in power will determine if it is a positive or negative event. 

The problem has been that, due to reactionary and anti-democratic rules Blair imposed on the party during the years when he was crushing every vestige of socialism out of the party, the PLP, ie., the Labour MPs-who, at this stage, are the last sector of the party that still wants Blairism back-control who gets on the leadership ballot.  The fear has always been that, if Corbyn did stand down, they would only allow "moderates"(i.e., reactionaries whose views are nearly identical to the Tories)to have a chance of replacing Corbyn.   Had the MP veto on leadership candidates been removed, Corbyn probably would have stood down a few months after 2017.

It is the anti-Corbynites, who blocked the change and who won't guarantee that a Corbynite would be on the next leadership ballot, who are the cause of the current situation.

It was never reasonable to expect Corbyn to resign without some guarantee that the overwhelming majority of paid Labour members and supporters who support his policies would a)have a candidate supporting their convictions and the principles on the ballot they could vote for, or b)have some guarantee that, once Corbyn was gone, they wouldn't be expelled from the party as a bloc-thus leaving Labour with no one with any strong convictions on anything and no core values at all.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

Labour's Red Wall is Looking Shaky...

https://twitter.com/PeterRamsay2011/status/1201411061188087808

"The penny finally drops at The Guardian. 'In the absence of Brexit being delivered, why should voters trust politicians to do anything else?"

That's what party fandoms are for. Always cheer never question.

There's no way it could help Labour in the polls to take a position on Brexit that 80% of Labour voters oppose and will always oppose.  And that's what you're demanding in insisting that the position HAD to be "no deal Brexit", had to include abandoning the labour rights, human rights and environmental protection aspects of the EU-the only meaningful protections of labour rights, human rights, and environmental safety that apply to the UK at the moment-when it should have been enough to get out ot the economic constraints.

But let's face it...you were always going to end up campaigning for Labour's destruction in the hope that somehow, in some way, this might bring whatever it is in the UK that you see as the party political equivalent of the World Socialist Web Site into eventual power there.

It's sickening that you're willing to see the NHS destroyed-as it will be if the Tories get a majority-just to punish Labour for not doing exactly as you wish-that Labour doing 98% of what you wanted couldn't ever have been enough.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

nicky wrote:

As usual Ken grasps at any straw to support his Corbynite myopia.

He is only unpopular because the evil Blairites have demonized him.

Labour is only 6% behind , citing the single poll that shows the margin that close and not the rest which average out to an 11% Tory lead.

JKR is exactly right that Corbyn unpopularity severely handicaps Labour. The current government is deservedly unpopular but stands to win almost exclusively because Corbyn is so sweepingly unpopularity.

It was so irresponsible for Corbyn to cling to the leadership and not only doom Labour to another defeat but re-elect a truly awful government. Corbyn will bear the opprobrium of history and the thanks of the Conservatives. What an useful idiot.

Meanwhile, here is a more clinical assessment of what awaits Labour after Corbyn’s defeat on Dec. 12:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/could-corbyn-cling-on-if-labour-lose/

It would have made the election meaningless to have done what you really wanted and replaced Corbyn with a reactionary like Tom Watson or Yvonne Cooper.  

And it would have served no purpose for Labour to abandon socialism by going all-out Remain.  Corbyn's second referendum gives the Remainers everything they could ask for.

At this point, it sounds like you're campaigning for the SDP.

And as to the polls, there have been several which put the Tory lead in single digits.  The one I cited wasn't the only one.

And, since you know that Corbyn can't be replaced during the election-no political party can ever change leaders during an election campaign unless the existing leader dies or something-there is no justification for you to continue to attack Corbyn.  There's no chance that doing so will lead to what you say is your preferred outcome-a Labour/LibDem/SNP/Green coalition with someone other than Corbyn as leader.

Why can you not see that saving the NHS matters more than anything else here, and that what you are doing is helping to put the NHS at mortal risk?

The transcript of the meeting Corbyn released which showed that the Tories were committed to selling off the NHS to Trump should have got through to you-it should have led to you see that your unjustified hatred of Corbyn is not worth harming innocent people over.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Tariq Ali on U.K. Elections, Corbyn’s “Radical Social-Democratic Program” & Rise of Extreme Right

quote:

TARIQ ALI: Amy, the first thing you have to understand is that the British Conservative Party has effectively been taken over by the extreme right wing inside that party, and they are waging a very right-wing campaign. On Brexit, their own position has changed from when they were threatening a no-deal Brexit to now accepting a compromise with the European Union. And Boris Johnson has decided to center the election on Brexit because he thinks he can convince people that every other politician in the land, especially Jeremy Corbyn, will never push it through.

The line Corbyn has taken is that whatever deal he achieves with the European Union will be put to the people and they will be given a choice again. Now, this is unpopular with some of his own supporters, but that’s the deal. However, what Corbyn has been arguing is that he refuses to fight the election on Brexit or no Brexit. He says this election has to be fought on real social and economic issues. And this is why he unleashed this radical social democratic program at Birmingham not so long ago, which is the most radical program Labour has had for a very long time, indeed for many, many decades.

quote:

And interestingly enough, amongst the undecided people, Corbyn scored a victory with that television debate, which you just showed an excerpt from. Not one of the great confrontations in British political history, but in any case, he scored well with unattached voters. So he knows that there’s everything to play for. And Corbyn is at his best when he’s campaigning, when he’s talking to ordinary people. He hates mainstream television and how it distorts politics and how it manipulates. And and who can blame him? So he’s at his best when he’s talking to people on the streets or big meetings or answering questions from real people.

And we hope that he will become the largest party in Parliament, if not something more than that. I mean, the campaign is now after a couple of weeks beginning to pick up. And when I last spoke to Julian Assange and I said to him, “Do you see any hope at all, Julian?” he said, “The only hope is a Corbyn government, Tariq.” Because he said, “I can’t depend on the English judiciary.” So on many, many levels—civil liberties, women’s rights, racism—I think this is the campaign that we’re going to see, and whether it enthuses enough people, who knows.

quote:

The interesting thing is that the Liberal Party, the Liberal Democrats, are waging such a right-wing anti-Corbyn campaign that now they’ve said that they’ll join a coalition with the Conservatives, Boris Johnson, if Boris just agrees to another referendum, which is very unlikely. And the Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson, though I’ve nicknamed her Jo Strangelove, attacks Corbyn for not saying in public that if prime minister, he would press the nuclear button, saying he’s a pacifist, he’s this and he’s that, making a nuclear war one of the minor issues in this campaign. So, I mean, I think she will lose votes for saying that and I think she might even lose her own seat in Scotland, which is very hostile to nuclear weapons. But it’s a crazy campaign [inaudible].

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

A World in Revolt Against Neoliberalism & Corruption: Tariq Ali on the Roots of Today’s Uprisings

quote:

TARIQ ALI: Well, I think it’s extremely significant because what it reveals is a new generation completely alienated from the political structures of their societies, in most cases. It’s the case in Chile where Sylvie [sic] Bachelet, the socialist president for two terms, did nothing to transform, reform and get rid of Pinochet’s structures, political, socioeconomic structures in that country. And this is what young people in Chile are saying.

quote:

So the effect it has here—here, young people are saying it’s the Corbyn campaign. If Jeremy Corbyn doesn’t win, I think you will see trouble here. You’ve seen it in France with the gilets jaunes movement, the yellow vests, where the repression was horrendous. We now have got the figures—10,000 arrests, people shot with gas in the eye. The head of the French health service recently blogged, pleading with the government, “Please stop firing in young people’s eyes. We’ve had to remove one completely and many, many people are now suffering.”

So it’s not simply that it’s happening elsewhere. It’s happening in Europe as well. And of course, in your country, you have these huge gatherings. I mean, 26,000 people gathering in Brooklyn to hear Bernie Sanders—that sort of thing doesn’t happen every day in an election campaign. So I think underneath the surface and above it, there is a lot of rumbling.

TARIQ ALI: Yeah. That has been huge, very well-organized, unpredictable. Attempts to delegitimize it have failed because the courts have ruled that the police have no right to ban these demonstrations, which is one of the few legal victories a movement has won in this country in recent years. So that is happening here. And, you know, let’s hope it ties in with the election campaign. I think the figures are that over a million people have registered between the ages of 18 and 34. They’ve kept to the date, they’ve registered. So I hope that that helps. It would be amazing.

Also, Amy, if Corbyn wins and begins to implement the program, it will have a big effect globally. If it can be done in Britain, why can’t it be done in France? Why can’t it be done in the United States? Why can’t it be done in country X or Y or Z? It will show that it is possible to reverse all the damage inflicted by the neoliberal system, its economic policies, its wars, et cetera. Corbyn would be the first prime minister of this country who has been an anti-war activist and president of the Stop the War campaign for some years.

So that is one reason the right is so upset and the establishment has been trying to destabilize him and this absurd, absurd accusation of him being anti-Semitic has been thrown into the ring by right-wing and liberal Zionists, which has unfortunately had an impact. But you know, people are fighting back, including large numbers of Jewish activists from Jewish Voices for Labor. But they’ve hurled every possible charge you can imagine at him. He’s a terrorist. He’s an anti-Semite. He’s a communist. He’s going to be like Stalin. You cannot imagine it outside this country, what they’ve thrown at him. And he’s come back fighting. Well, this is probably his last fight politically to win this election, and let’s hope he succeeds.

nicky

Ken says I support the SDP ??? Do they even exist anymore?

He also says that 80% of Labour members oppose Remain when in fact at least 80% of them favour Remain.

what colour is the sky on the planet where you live Ken?

JKR

I think Ken stated that 80% of Labour voters oppose a hard Brexit or a no-deal Brexit.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

1) I didn't say that 80% of Labour voters oppose Remain.  What I said that the position that NDPP is demanding Labour take-all out support of "no deal Brexit" is opposed by at least 80% of Labour voters-and probably more, since there are very few Leave supporters who actually support "no-deal Brexit".

2) I didn't say you WERE campaigning for the SDP-they collapsed after 1992, though for completely unjustifiable reasons many SDP types were then allowed to essentially take over Labour, and in taking it over stripped it of virtually all meaningful differences with the Tories.  I said it sounded LIKE you were campaigning for the SDP-that is, as if you were committed to a politics in which nothing mattered more than subjecting Labour to massive defeats just because it did something you disagreed with.   BTW, what are your views of the policies Labour is fighting this election on?  Which of the policies do you actually have an issue with?  Clearly, you've not taken your vendetta against Labour's leader to this absurd extreme just because you have some complaint with the man on a subjective level.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

JKR wrote:

I think Ken stated that 80% of Labour voters oppose a hard Brexit or a no-Brexit.

That's correct.  Most people, I suspect, are actually somewhere in the middle-the Labour position on the EU is more popular, overall, than either "no-Deal Brexit" or "all-out Remain"-and would mainly like to get rid of the bad-the economic/spending/taxation constraints-without losing the good-the labour/environmental/human rights guarantees.

Corbyn's position does that.

BTW, no one has any reason to assume, were a second referendum to be held, that it somehow goes without saying that a landslide Remain victory would be a given.  There have been conflicting polls on that.

NDPP

GE2019: Dozens of Labour Candidates Vow To Double-Cross Their Own Voters By Fighting To Stop Brexit

https://t.co/YIBxxOPHbW

"In total, 182 GE candidates have signed a pledge drawn up by the campaign group Remain Labour. It states: Labour is committed to a confirmatory referendum to give you the final say on Brexit. If elected as your Labour MP, I pledge to campaign to Remain in the EU..."

 

Left Brexit Tour, London, March 2019 - The Left Case Against the European Union (and vid)

http://buncranatogether.com/home/2019/3/30/left-brexit-tour-london-march...

"The EU is irreformable and only by breaking with it can you reboot democracy..."

 

"A quick update on how the very normal, cool and progressive presidency of centrist  [EU] saviour Emmanuel Macron is going. 'My goal is to throw out everybody who has no reason to be here..."

https://twitter.com/jamiedmaxwell/status/1200853450927595521

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

NDPP

The Telegraph - BREAKING: CORBYN'S DOSSIER 'POINTS TO RUSSIANS'

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1201627302347624448

"There are very serious questions that need to be answered by Jeremy Corbyn and his team..."

Well it worked like a hot damn for crooked Hillary et al.  I guess they thought they'd  throw it out there and give it a shot...

JKR

NDPP wrote:

GE2019: Dozens of Labour Candidates Vow To Double-Cross Their Own Voters By Fighting To Stop Brexit

...

"In total, 182 GE candidates have signed a pledge drawn up by the campaign group Remain Labour. It states: Labour is committed to a confirmatory referendum to give you the final say on Brexit. If elected as your Labour MP, I pledge to campaign to Remain in the EU..."

Giving people a final say is not a double cross, it's democracy in action. UK'ers should be able to vote on Brexit now that it is much more clear what Brexit would be about. UK'ers that still support Brexit would still be able to vote for it but now they would be doing so with much more information. Brexiters are afraid that the majority of voters would vote against Brexit once they know what the legislation establishing it actually entails. The voters of the UK should be able to vote on the exact Brexit they will have to live with. Anything less than that is fraud. Many of these Brexiters are fraudsters trying to force Brexit down the throats of UK'ers. Boris is a con man.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

The Telegraph - BREAKING: CORBYN'S DOSSIER 'POINTS TO RUSSIANS'

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1201627302347624448

"There are very serious questions that need to be answered by Jeremy Corbyn and his team..."

Well it worked like a hot damn for crooked Hillary et al.  I guess they thought they'd  throw it out there and give it a shot...


The only people who benefit from your doing this are the Tories-there is no way that your tactics are ever going to lead to the creation of a strong further-left alternative to Labour or the NDP.

And quite frankly, I doubt that you care that you're helping the party of the rich.

As to those MPs....80% of Labour voters voted Remain.  That means that Labour, as a party, simply can't take a position of all-out "no-Deal" Brexit without losing those voters.

And since Labour's position is neutrality, there's no double-cross going on there.  Labour NEVER promised to back "no-deal"i.e., far right white supremacist)Brexit".   Never once.

 

josh

NDPP doesn't care that he always seems to be attacking even real left parties like Labour.  Doing that, and echoing right-wing talking points, is in the service of a greater cause.

NDPP

European Union - Business as Usual as the Madness Continues

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=43776

"...The same political dislocations are happening throughout Europe although the antagonism to the neoliberal austerity orthodoxy is more manifesting in chaos than a a defined direction away from the major political parties (Britain is a good example of that). Meanwhile, the orthodoxy continues in the European Commission and in its Autumn 2019 Economic Forecast - they are requiring the majority of Member States to inflict more austerity on their nations even though a recession is looming. That is business as usual as the madness continues...It is a technocracy that is so out of touch with the purpose of government that it is hard to see how any sensible dialogue can occur outside of the straitjacket set out..."

 

Tony Benn on Democracy and the EU

https://whitewednesday.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/tony-benn-on-democracy-a...

"...My dear constituents, in future you will be governed by people whom you do not elect and cannot remove. Secondly, to my favourite friends, the Chartists and Suffragettes, all your struggles to get control of the ballot box were a waste of time. We shall be run by a few white persons as in 1832. Even if one likes the policies of Europe one cannot get rid of them. I am sorry about it. We must ask what will happen when people realize what we have done..." Tony Benn, UK Labour

Never Forgive. Never Forget.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

Never Forgive. Never Forget.

In my opinion, this approach to life is a guarantee of lasting misery. You are welcome to it, but I'll say no thanks.

nicky
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

BeadyManPoet - We are many

After 9 1/2 years or Tory austerity it's time for change, time to protect vital public services, time to put an end to homelessness, time to end the hostile environment that has caused so much suffering to immigrants, refugees and their families, time to redistribute the wealth of one of the largest economies in the world and time to protect our beloved NHS for future generations. Remember WE ARE MANY, THEY ARE FEW.

JKR

Michael Moriarity wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Never Forgive. Never Forget.

In my opinion, this approach to life is a guarantee of lasting misery. You are welcome to it, but I'll say no thanks.

I agree that only misery can come from focussing on one's hatred of others.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Dua Lipa urges followers to support Labour at general election: ‘Your vote counts’

Dua Lipa has encouraged her 36.7 million followers to vote Labour in the forthcoming general election, with a detailed Instagram post breaking down the policies of both Labour and the Conservatives on various issues.

The policy breakdown, which was put together by fashion and art publication The Basement, outlined issues such as mental health, LGBT+ issues, equality/inequality, and climate change and the environment.

The “New Rules” singer pointed out that Labour displayed a greater interest in those topics in their manifesto.

The post also highlighted the pledges made by each party, including those made for “younger people”.....

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Dua Lipa - New Rules 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Be there TODAY: join the march led by NHS nurses and doctors, from 4pm in Trafalgar Square, then marching down the Mall to make our voice heard as Trump arrives at Buckingham Palace!

NDPP

EU: New Leadership, Old Problems

https://twitter.com/LeFTCampaign/status/1201652793335005184

"...EU elections do not even meet minimum democratic standards...central functions of parliament are non-existing, no legislative initiative, no separation of powers, an informal hierarchy with France and Germany at the top."

 

Corbyn Nationalisation Plans for Energy Sector To Collide With EU International Treaties

https://t.co/6g42YALMmq

"The Labour Party's plans to take large parts of the energy industry back under public control is on a collision course with international treaties that guard Europe-owned companies against government takeovers. City lawyers have warned that a web of international treaties would force the cost of Labour's nationalisation pledges far higher than expected. The law firm Clifford Chance has said the energy charter treaty (ECT) would force the party to offer compensation at a 'fair market value', and would rule out the option of paying shareholders for their assets in government-backed bonds..."
 

No problem as these are only campaign lies to secure votes from chumps, like the last manifesto promise to leave the EU, never intended to be honoured or kept.

Corbyn Makes it Clear...

https://rabble.ca/comment/5664366#comment-5664366

JKR

One nice thing about the UK leaving the EU is that people in the UK won't be able to blame all their problems on the EU anymore. Maybe without the EU, the UK will suddenly become a beacon of democracy?!?!? Maybe many in Scotland and Northern Ireland will want to leave Boris's and Nigel's fantasy island?!?! 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

General election: British newspapers’ attacks on Labour have intensified while Tories continue to get positive coverage, study finds

Negative press coverage of Labour’s election campaign has intensified, while coverage of the Tories remains positive overall, new analysis shows.

During the third week of the election campaign, a Loughborough University study found a persistent gulf between media reporting on Jeremy Corbyn’s party and the Conservatives under Boris Johnson.

Labour commands the highest number of column inches of all the parties, the study found, but academics said the greater prominence “should not be assumed to deliver a political advantage to the opposition”.

Researchers analysed the overall negativity and positivity of newspaper coverage of all the main political parties, assigning a positive value of +1 to stories that could benefit each party and -1 to pieces that held damaging implications for the party.

Labour faced overwhelmingly negative coverage in the first week with a -71.17 ranking, dropping to -71.96 in the second week and -75.79 last week.

This compared to a positive +29.98 for the Conservatives in the first week, falling to +17.86 in the second week and +15.87 in the third week.

“The high levels of newspaper negativity towards Labour identified in the first week of the campaign were sustained into week two and increased marginally in week three,” the report said.....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..the boys from brazil came into my thoughts when i looked at this pic.

Leaders of the Nato countries, and its secretary general, join Britain’s Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Charles. Photograph: Yui Mok/AP

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP wrote:

EU: New Leadership, Old Problems

https://twitter.com/LeFTCampaign/status/1201652793335005184

"...EU elections do not even meet minimum democratic standards...central functions of parliament are non-existing, no legislative initiative, no separation of powers, an informal hierarchy with France and Germany at the top."

 

Corbyn Nationalisation Plans for Energy Sector To Collide With EU International Treaties

https://t.co/6g42YALMmq

"The Labour Party's plans to take large parts of the energy industry back under public control is on a collision course with international treaties that guard Europe-owned companies against government takeovers. City lawyers have warned that a web of international treaties would force the cost of Labour's nationalisation pledges far higher than expected. The law firm Clifford Chance has said the energy charter treaty (ECT) would force the party to offer compensation at a 'fair market value', and would rule out the option of paying shareholders for their assets in government-backed bonds..."
 

No problem as these are only campaign lies to secure votes from chumps, like the last manifesto promise to leave the EU, never intended to be honoured or kept.

Corbyn Makes it Clear...

https://rabble.ca/comment/5664366#comment-5664366

There was NEVER a manifesto commitment from Corbyn to Leave, and especially never a manifesto commitment to "no deal Brexit"(especially since "no deal" could only have a right wing outcome).  It isn't possible for a Labour leader to make a manifesto commitment to a position-"no deal" Brexit-which has virtually no support at all among Labour voters.  Everything Corbyn is trying to do could be done under "soft Brexit" and you know perfectly well that if the UK gets of the human rights, labour rights and environmental protection agreements, those protections will never be re-established on a UK-only basis.  There would never be anything close to them that would get through parliament and not simply repealed next time there's a Tory government.  

There simply can't be a total break and it's absurd for you to be vilifying Corbyn for not agreeing to do the impossible and for you to keep accusing the guy of breaking a commitment he never made.

NDPP

Page 24 of Labour's 2017 general election manifesto pledged to 'accept the referendum result'. They didn't. Instead we have all the familiar machinations typical of collaborationist bourgeois political parties including UK Labour to save their EU overlords absolute dominion. Smear and fear campaigns of Leave 'deplorables' as 'racists', procedural trickery in Parliament, 'confirmatory refereundum', 'soft'- Brexit, BRINO/ Remain etc. This is nothing new. Other recalcitrant, resistent and no-voting populations resisting EU neoliberalist domination have also found themselves being made to vote repeatedly until the desired end for Brussels was finally achieved. UK Labour sold out. It's clear and plain and there's no nice way to say it.  But then what do you care as long as your 'team' wins? By any means necessary.

"Britain is leaving the European Union. That is the decision of the Referendum..." - Jeremy Corbyn

https://twitter.com/BBCLookNorth/status/862292802708832260

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