2019 UK election

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josh

nicky wrote:

Survation was also the poll that came closest in the 2017 election. It was the only one to peg the Labour vote accurately.

 

They were.  But those polls were not paid for by a political party.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

To get some idea of how honest the Lib Dems are in their use of polls, take a look at this interview, starting at about 7:40.

Aristotleded24

Michael Moriarity wrote:
To get some idea of how honest the Lib Dems are in their use of polls, take a look at this interview, starting at about 7:40.

Brillaint move. She can use the poll to create whatever impression she wants, and with the fine print she has the cover to say, "but I told the truth." Technically she did, but she left people with a wrong impression.

Ken Burch

And those constituency polls don't track with the polls tracking overall national party support, most of whom have showed LD voting support flatlining or declining slightly.

You aren't actually supporting the LD's, are you nicky?  You can't seriously argue that the second referendum matters so much more than everything else that it justifies backing what even you would have to concede is now a right-wing party.  And since the LD's are now offering nothing more for Remainers than Labour does, why even bother?

You're totally discrediting your claims to be anywhere on the left-of-center part of the spectrum if you're going to continue to attack Labour for not ditching Corbyn and not going back to Blairism.  

Does it not matter to you that the overwhelming majority of paid Labour members and supporters don't want the party to go back to Blairism?  Should their wishes count for nothing?

nicky

Ken, I suspect it is all academic in the shor5 run. corbyn’ abysmal Unpopularity has assured Johnson a majority.

if this happens there will be a civil war in the Labour Party between those will have learned the lessons flowing from a monumental defeat and those who have not.

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

Ken, I suspect it is all academic in the shor5 run. corbyn’ abysmal Unpopularity has assured Johnson a majority.

if this happens there will be a civil war in the Labour Party between those will have learned the lessons flowing from a monumental defeat and those who have not.

It couldn't have produced anything even vaguely progressive-let alone socialist-for Corbyn to have stood down and been replaced by a Tory-sorry "Labour moderate"-and thus reward a totally unjustified four year long hate campaign.  Anyone who replaced Corbyn under those conditions would have been doomed to do badly.  The voters were not going to reward Labour for replacing Corbyn with someone who had no core values.   

Those in the Labour Right are solely responsible for the fact that an avoidable Tory victory could have been prevented.  Had the false accusations of a wave of antisemitism-I've discredited that canard several times now in our exchanges-not been launched, had the Labour Right accepted that the 2017 election settled the leadership issue and got behind Corbyn rather than continuing to try and force him to resign, a Tory defeat would be a certainty.

And there is no way that having a second referendum BEFORE the election we are now having could have produced anything that could justify the damage the Labour Right has done here.

It is your fault, all of you who don't want Labour to be socialist, who don't want it to oppose the austerity policies that EU membership makes compulsory, that Corbyn has been made unpopular.  He did nothing, at any point, to deserve the hate campaign the PLP refused to stop against him.

And the most sickening thing is, you STILL haven't given up on trying to make Corbyn resign, even though you yourself have admitted that a party can't force out a leader and replace that leader with someone else during an election campaign.

Why could you never, ever stop?

And why obsess on Remain-an antisocialist cause-to this absurd extent?  Why is it more important to you than allowing the UK to construct a prosperous socialist future on its own terms?  

Ken Burch

What lessons would you like Labour to learn? 

That the PLP, the last antisocialists still a part of the party, should be able to force out a leader even if the majority of the party doesn't want that leader forced out?

That Labour MUST abandon the non-wealthy majority by permanently renouncing socialism?

That the party should act as though anti-Semitism is the most prevalent form of bigotry in the UK(it's actually the least-prevalent) and that the only way Labour can prove it opposes anti-Semitism is to make public criticism of what the Israeli government does to Palestinians grounds for instant expulsion?

That a fight for one outdated and reactionary trading alliance is more important than the creation of a society where poverty and exploitation don't exist?

What you want, clearly, is an antidemocratic conception of what Labour is supposed to be about:a conception free of core values or internal party democracy; a conception in which Labour MPs are treated as if they are the party and no one else is; a conception in which Labour supports the preservation of the status quo for the rest of eternity.

What other possible interpretation can be made of all you have posted here in the last four years?

There's no way what you have done could possibly be consistent with socialist or even social democratic values or with a belief that the Labour Party should be controlled by those who do the work of electing Labour MPs and Labour governments.  There's no way what you have done could possibly be consistent with any interest in fighting poverty or ending austerity in the UK-only the Labour Left opposes poverty and austerity, "modernizers" are fine with those things, as they proved by abstaining on May's cuts.

When you could have used your time here to give support to those who want poverty and austerity ended in the UK, who want the climate crisis addressed, who want the damage done by years of Tory governance ended.  But you've refused to do that.  All you have done is attacked a good, decent human being, the first leader Labour has had in decades who isn't a cynical hack or a coward-and abetted a campaign designed to convince the electorate of the UK that he is a monster.

I actually proposed an option which might have achieved your objective of having Corbyn stand down-that the PLP guarantee that there be a left-winger on the leadership ballot and guarantee that Labour would fight this election on the socialist policies most of the party wants.  You refused to even address that proposal.  You can't seriously think it would be legitimate for the PLP to be able to block all socialists from the ballot and impose an election platform that repudiated socialism.  You can't seriously think anyone would rally to Labour if it did that, or would accept someone put in through a rigged ballot as in any sense a legitimate leader.

Why didn't you support what I suggested there?  Corbyn's supporters are most of the party.  Most of the party supports the ideas Corbyn fights for.  Do you honestly think that is irrelevant, or that a leader imposed on an all-moderate ballot, or just by a vote of the PLP itself could possibly be legitimate?  Could possibly connect with the voters?
 

NDPP

Why I'm Standing Against David Lammy

https://t.co/d0jLeB9QRA

The EU is a protectionist bloc designed to keep non-white people out. And its institutions are dominated by white men. Yet Remainers say it is Brexit that is the racist enterprise. Nonsense, says Abdul Turay."

nicky

Here’s a quote for you Ken:

We may lose the vote today, and the result may deal this party a grave blow. It may not be possible to prevent it, but there are some of us, I think many of us, who will not accept that this blow need be mortal: who will not believe that such an end is inevitable. There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness.

  • Hugh, Gaitskell, Speech at the Labour Party conference (5 October 1960)

NDPP

And like Tony Benn, and other giants of the Labour Party, an ardent Euro-skeptic not an equivocating neoliberalist collaborator. By contrast...

Antisemitism Scandals 'Absolutely Killing' UK Labour Party, Ex-PM Tony Blair Says

https://t.co/s6M7UaiGm8

"Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair told a top UK Jewish group on Monday there would be a 'complete battle' within the Labour party over the issue of antisemitism ahead of the December general election. Polls show the majority of British Jews consider Corbyn personally antisemitic and are planning to vote against him..."

The Lobby (and vid)

https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/

"AJ Investigations exposes how the Israel lobby penetrates different levels of British democracy..."

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

Here’s a quote for you Ken:

We may lose the vote today, and the result may deal this party a grave blow. It may not be possible to prevent it, but there are some of us, I think many of us, who will not accept that this blow need be mortal: who will not believe that such an end is inevitable. There are some of us who will fight, and fight, and fight again, to save the party we love. We will fight, and fight, and fight again, to bring back sanity and honesty and dignity, so that our party – with its great past – may retain its glory and its greatness.

  • Hugh, Gaitskell, Speech at the Labour Party conference (5 October 1960)

Gaitskell said that while arguing that Labour should support keeping the nuclear deterrent.  What the hell was there to love in that?  It was useless for the UK to have the bomb or to be on anybody's "side" in the Cold War.

What is the Labour Party that YOU love, nicky? 

A party where socialists and labour activists are out in the cold and donations from CEO's call the tune?

A party where no one but a right-wing leader and the right-wing, antidemocratic PLP have a say?

A party which still supports the discredited doctrine of "humanitarian" intervention?

A party which would never undo all the barbaric Tory cuts in social benefits or repeal the barbaric benefits sanctions regime?

A party which goes back to the capitalist-triumphalist "end of history" doctrine?

A party which was fine with the slow death-by-privatization of the NHS?

A party which equates criticism of the Israeli government with hatred of Jews-Corbyn agreed to every part of the IHRA "guidelines and examples" other than those related to opposition to the occupation and the settlements-?

Is that the party you support?

A party which goes back to standing for nothing? 

If not, could you kindly tell me what party you DO support?

Obviously Labour can't lower itself to the Third Way again-not in a time where people all over the globe are rising against greed and austerity.
 

 

 

nicky

Better news for Labour in Gedling, They have only lost a quarter of their votes.

Gedling, constituency voting intention:

 

LAB: 42% (-10)

CON: 37% (-6)

BREX: 13% (+13)

LDEM: 6% (+4)

GRN: 1% (-) 

 

via @Survation, 04 Nov

Chgs. w/ GE2017 result

nicky

Which Labour Party do I support Ken?

One that is electable and therefore able  to help people.

Wnich is exactly what Corbyn’s narrow, bigoted, myopic, humourless, self-delusional, exclusionary, mendacious little cult is not.

 

josh

Thread on the smear campaign that's been run against Corbyn.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertCohen2/status/1192463996462551042

nicky

Another poll for you to explain away Ken.

Latest polling in Scotland:

25 point lead for the SNP

Labour down 15%

Conservative 22%
Labour 10%
Lib Dem 8%
SNP 47%
Brexit Party 5%
Green 8%

YouGov/The Times/Sky 5-6 Nov

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Why Corbynism matters

The inside story of the movement behind the man—and why, whoever wins the electoral battle, the Left is winning the war​

Late in October, just as temperatures dropped and the nights drew in, more than 1,500 people joined an online conference call to discuss how Labour might win the upcoming general election.

Participants introduced themselves and shared their locations: from Crouch End to the Calder Valley, Canterbury to Cornwall. So many people were typing simultaneously that the text was often unreadable; it was a giddy celebration of Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party by its most passionate activists. “Don’t listen to the naysayers and the doom-and-gloomers, don’t listen to the cynical hacks from the Westminster bubble!” Ash Sarkar, a journalist with the left-wing Novara media outlet, implored to wild applause. “This time around, you are Labour’s secret weapon,” insisted Callum Cant, an organiser with the pro-Corbyn Momentum group. He ran through some of the local initiatives that Momentum would pioneer to counteract the Conservative Party’s financial advantages: voter registration drives, phone-banks in living rooms, and WhatsApp threads to prompt like-minded friends and family members to knock on doors in marginal constituencies. “It’s only by stepping up your commitment that we will win,” he said....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i don't care what the polls say this stuff matters..more than brexit..more than remain.

Mothers promised full year of maternity pay in Labour manifesto

Mothers will be given maternity pay for a full year after the birth of their children and all employees will have a right to work flexibly as part of a Labour manifesto pledge to improve life for parents.

She said Labour would stick with its 2017 pledge to increase statutory maternity pay from nine to 12 months, allowing mothers or partners sharing parental leave to spend a full year between them with their newborn babies.

The party has also promised to give workers the right to choose working hours that suit them through a “presumption in favour of flexible work” – putting the onus on employers to explain why if they could not offer that.

Butler said all large employers, under Labour’s proposals, would be forced to introduce a menopause workplace policy to break the stigma associated with it and pledged to do more to tackle sexual harassment in the workplace.

She said she was “sick of how women are treated at work” and argued that “audits are not enough” in an implicit criticism of Theresa May’s moves to measure inequality in the workplace.

Butler said: “Next Thursday, it is equal pay day, the day when women effectively stop getting paid for the rest of the year compared to their male counterparts. It’s a disgrace.

Labour has already pledged to create a workers’ protection agency with powers to fine organisations that fail to report their gender pay, publish action plans to reduce pay gaps or take satisfactory measures to close the pay gap.

Dawn Butler, Labour’s shadow women and equalities secretary, said she wanted to see a “step change in how women are treated at work”, which would be reflected in the party’s manifesto when it is published in a few weeks’ time.....

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Liberal Democrats apologise for distributing misleading flyers

The Liberal Democrats today apologised for distributing misleading campaign literature to hundreds of Londoners.

Leaflets were posted through doors in Putney which wrongly credited trusted polling firm YouGov for data suggesting the party was neck-and-neck with the Tories.

The projections actually came from a company that is not a member of the British Polling Council and uses national polls to forecast local voter intention.

quote:

She apologised for another leaflet which claimed The Guardian had described the party as “winning and on the up”.

The newspaper was actually quoting leader Jo Swinson following the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election in August.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..on labour raising money

 

robbie_dee

nicky wrote:

Another poll for you to explain away Ken.

Latest polling in Scotland:

25 point lead for the SNP

Labour down 15%

Conservative 22%
Labour 10%
Lib Dem 8%
SNP 47%
Brexit Party 5%
Green 8%

YouGov/The Times/Sky 5-6 Nov

I can't speak for Ken but as I understand it better polling for the SNP is largely good news for Corbyn. This will likely cost the Conservatives most if not all of their 13 seats in Scotland and Sturgeon has already sent some pretty loud signals she'd be willing to support a Corbyn minority. Broadly speaking IMO both the SNP and Labour are progressive options for Scottish voters and if I lived there I'd happily vote for either of them depending on the constituency I lived in. More importantly, for Corbyn losing seats to the SNP may be a "loss" on narrow partisan grounds but so long as the seats go to another party that is likely to back his parliamentary agenda he hasn't really lost anything.

bekayne

nicky wrote:

Better news for Labour in Gedling, They have only lost a quarter of their votes.

Gedling, constituency voting intention:

 

LAB: 42% (-10)

CON: 37% (-6)

BREX: 13% (+13)

LDEM: 6% (+4)

GRN: 1% (-) 

 

via @Survation, 04 Nov

Chgs. w/ GE2017 result

Actually less than 20% of their support. But if the Lib Dems are paying for polls in ridings like this, they're going to run out of money pretty soon.

nicky

All that is true Robbie

i bring this anD other polls to Ken’s attention to show, contrary to his position, that Labour is losing tons of votes under Corbyn.

NDPP

'Mothers Promised Full Year of Maternal Pay in Labour Manifesto'

https://twitter.com/tfbrexit/status/1192576569916755975

"But how can you promise any workers' rights outside of the EU?!"

 

"Left-wing politics is slowly going through a process of embourgeoisement. Right-wing politics is being proletarianised."

https://twitter.com/post_liberal/status/1192813055584788480

Babble continues to advance the process.

 

How the Political Class Sold Our Sovereignty

https://t.co/WQuhFYBegU

"National independence is an essential condition for democracy and socialism..."

NDPP

Brexit is Political

https://youtu.be/hIAXPMrOCjE

"The Labour Party ought to allow more internal debate for 'Lexit' says Prof Costas Lapavitsas."

robbie_dee

nicky wrote:

All that is true Robbie

i bring this anD other polls to Ken’s attention to show, contrary to his position, that Labour is losing tons of votes under Corbyn.

I think its quite possible that Corbyn will fall short of the impressive 40% result Labour obtained under his leadership in the 2017 election. But we should not lose sight of the fact that that result was Labour's best result since 2001, an election which delivered Tony Blair a massive majority. A more realistic target for Corbyn is to try to get somewhere between the 30% Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband obtained in 2010 and 2015, respectively, and the 35% Blair won in 2005 when he got his last majority. If Corbyn can do that, and enough of the Conservative vote scatters between the yellow Tory remainer Lib Dems and the hard Brexit Faragists then Labour has a decent chance of forming at least a minority administration at the end of the day. IMO that would really be the best possible outcome, especially if Corbyn can find enough votes from the SNP, Plaid Cymru and/or the Greens to be able to pass legislation without having to rely on the LDs who I don't trust.

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

Which Labour Party do I support Ken?

One that is electable and therefore able  to help people.

Wnich is exactly what Corbyn’s narrow, bigoted, myopic, humourless, self-delusional, exclusionary, mendacious little cult is not.

 

There is no bigotry or exclusion in Corbyn's party.  It's been repeatedly proved there is no significant incidence of antisemitism within Labour, and Corbyn accepted every part of the IHRA guidelines OTHER than those intended to make it impossible for Labour members and supporters to speak out against the injustices the Israeli government inflicts on Palestinians.  If the point of pushing Corbyn to accept the guidelines wasn't to silence opposition to the Occupation, the West Bank settlements and all the rest of the collective punishment, why wasn't it enough for Corbyn to accept the rest of the guidelines?

You're not going to make Labour more electable in future elections by continuing to attack the party during THIS election.  And it may not matter if Labour if Labour wins in a future election on the sort of antisocialist leader you would prefer if Boris gets an unearned majority in THIS election.

Why should it have been taken as the ONLY valid way to prove Labour wasn't antisemitic for Labour to equate all public criticism of the Israeli government WITH antisemitism?  Why should criticism of the actions of a country ever be equated to hatred of an entire global community of religious and cultural and ethical traditions?

What Corbyn did on the antisemitism issue was more than enough-it should never have had to mean instant expulsion for anyone anybody CLAIMED was an antisemite.   With that criteria, it would be grounds for instant expulsion to call for the deselection of Margaret Hodge as the candidate for Barking or to go to a rally for Palestine solidarity.  It would be grounds for instant expulsion to be a Jewish non-Zionist like David Lewis, for God's sakes.

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

All that is true Robbie

i bring this anD other polls to Ken’s attention to show, contrary to his position, that Labour is losing tons of votes under Corbyn.

And it's been pointed out before in this thread that the constituency polls nicky posts are out of sync with the national polls that show LibDem support static or falling and Labour support increasing.

And since nicky knows that it's not possible for Corbyn to stand down as leader, there's no valid reason to continue to try and discredit the man-and it wouldn't make any possible difference in the polls to replace Corbyn with a "moderate"-nobody would think the election even mattered if anybody on the right wing of the party took over as leader, and nobody from the right wing of the party could possibly demonstrate any personal popularity.

Ken Burch

And again-since you yourself have admitted that it's not possible for Corbyn to stand down at this point, why are you still posting things that suggest you HAVEN'T GIVEN UP on that pointless objective?

It serves no greater good to be hoping that Labour will do badly in this election simply to punish Corbyn and the majority of the party who support socialism.  You're not going to get whatever it is you think of as "the party I love" by hoping the party that actually exists loses badly.

bekayne

Ken Burch wrote:

nicky wrote:

All that is true Robbie

i bring this anD other polls to Ken’s attention to show, contrary to his position, that Labour is losing tons of votes under Corbyn.

And it's been pointed out before in this thread that the constituency polls nicky posts are out of sync with the national polls that show LibDem support static or falling and Labour support increasing.

To be fair, it's a comparison with the last election, when the Lib Dems had 7.4%

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..so we see in the 2019 manifesto an initial path to a participatory democracy. this is exciting.

“Power is coming home. Back to the people” – McDonnell’s speech in Liverpool

quote:

So on the scale of change investment needed I can tell you today that Labour’s ‘national transformation fund’ will be bigger than we promised at the 2017 election. For areas that haven’t had their fair share for years.

We’ll deliver £250 bi of investment here and around the country over the next ten years through our ‘green transformation fund’. Upgrading our energy, transport and other networks. To meet our targets and decarbonise as thoroughly and fast as our commitment to a just transition will allow.

But it’s not just the natural world that’s been neglected. So we’ll also commit to an additional £150bn in a new ‘social transformation fund’ spent over the first five years of our Labour government.

The social transformation fund will begin the urgent task of repairing our social fabric that the Tories have torn apart. £150bn to replace, upgrade and expand our schools, hospitals, care homes and council houses. To deal with the human emergency which the Tories have created, alongside the climate emergency.

quote:

But it’s not just about spending more. It’s about how it’s spent. With decision-making devolved down to local communities. So we’ll carve out part of our national transformation fund for a local transformation fund in each of England’s regions with money for the devolved governments as well of course.

And that money will be ringfenced for infrastructure projects decided and developed at a local level, with decisions made transparently and democratically in each region about how their fund is allocated.

And regional offices of government departments overseen by a board of local county and city council leaders, with that board publicly accountable to open meetings of local councillors, trade unions and business representatives.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

But epaulo13, nicky says this election is all about Corbyn's personal (un)popularity. Do you mean to say that nicky might be less than honest in his posts, and leaving out a few important factors? Why on earth would he do that?

Ken Burch

Michael Moriarity wrote:

But epaulo13, nicky says this election is all about Corbyn's personal (un)popularity. Do you mean to say that nicky might be less than honest in his posts, and leaving out a few important factors? Why on earth would he do that?

Oh, I dunno...might it not be "mendacity"?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..with all due respect i see the constant interaction going on with nicky and want no part of it. it goes nowhere and repeats. imo that makes for a dull thread. nicky is free to think what he likes.  

..the left has been looking for something like this for a long fucking time. why isn't there more talking about it? 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

epaulo13 wrote:

..with all due respect i see the constant interaction going on with nicky and want no part of it. it goes nowhere and repeats. imo that makes for a dull thread. nicky is free to think what he likes.  

..the left has been looking for something like this for a long fucking time. why isn't there more talking about it? 

Sorry, I didn't mean to distract from what we all know is the really important stuff that will happen if the U.K. elects a Labour government, but one of my faults is that I can't resist poking fun at people like nicky. I won't use any of your posts this way in the future.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

..with all due respect i see the constant interaction going on with nicky and want no part of it. it goes nowhere and repeats. imo that makes for a dull thread. nicky is free to think what he likes.  

..the left has been looking for something like this for a long fucking time. why isn't there more talking about it? 

Sorry, I didn't mean to distract from what we all know is the really important stuff that will happen if the U.K. elects a Labour government, but one of my faults is that I can't resist poking fun at people like nicky. I won't use any of your posts this way in the future.

..just so you know i wasn't offended by your post. you asked and i didn't want to ignore you..so i answered. 

bekayne

Ken Burch wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

But epaulo13, nicky says this election is all about Corbyn's personal (un)popularity. Do you mean to say that nicky might be less than honest in his posts, and leaving out a few important factors? Why on earth would he do that?

Oh, I dunno...might it not be "mendacity"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eioyl7dIlvw

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Corbyn and Rayner vow to open a Sure Start centre in every community

Labour will open a Sure Start centre in every community with 1,000 new centres across England as part of a radical expansion of childcare provision, Jeremy Corbyn is set to announce on Saturday.

Visiting an early years art project in Leeds with education spokesperson Angela Rayner, the Labour leader is expected to promise £1bn investment to reverse the Tory cuts to Sure Start and provide support to parents in every community across the country.

The announcement comes after new analysis that shows childcare costs have risen twice as fast as wages under the Conservatives. Labour has set out its plan, which is intended to unlock the potential of children in the UK. The plan includes:

  • Rolling out 30 hours of free childcare a week for 2-4 year olds;
  • Opening 1,000 new Sure Start centres;
  • Providing free school meals for all primary school children;
  • Building a million genuinely affordable homes, including the biggest council housing programme in a generation;
  • Investing in schools and fully reversing the Tory cuts;
  • Ending the public sector pay cap and introducing a real Living Wage of £10 to boost the household income;
  • Ending the benefit freeze, two child limit and scrapping universal credit.

quote:

House of Commons analysis shows that Labour’s expansion of 30 hours of free childcare would benefit over 880,000 three- and four-year-olds, and over 500,000 two-year-olds by the end of the next parliament.

Ken Burch
nicky

Perhaps you will this this poll is also mendacious Ken.

SNP voter support in Scotland up to 42% while Labour backing collapses, poll

The SNP has increased its share of the vote in Scotland since the 2017 election by five points, according to a new poll conducted by YouGov.

The poll conducted from October 23 to 25, showing voting intention when compared to the 2017 general election revealed that in Scotland SNP support has risen from 37% to 42% now.

But the survey will make bleak reading for Scottish Labour , as it shows the party support collapsing from 27% to 12%.

It means that Labour is currently running in fourth place behind the Lib Dems whose support has risen from 7% to 13%.

According to YouGov, if this figure remains the same on election day it will be the worst Labour result in Scotland for more than 100 years.

 

 

 

nicky

Evaporation of Labour votes extends from Scotland to London and Wales.

https://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/10102

But this is exclusively the fault of the evil Blairites, right Ken?

josh

The Blairites, the Tory press and the anti-Palestinian smear artists.

nicky

Are you not omitting one factor Josh?

I will give you a hint. It starts with “C”.

nicky

even worse than a choice between Trudeau and Scheer.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/10/boris-johnson-versus-jeremy-corbyn-for-number-10-battle-of-unfittest

The levels of dissimulation are even more elevated on the Labour side where many, quite possibly a majority, of the party’s candidates in winnable seats do not regard Mr Corbyn and his cabal as people who ought to be allowed near the machinery of power. Three years ago, Labour MPs held a confidence vote in which just 40 of them declared him fit to be their leader against 172 who argued for his removal. None of the reasons that the 172 cited then have changed in the time since and some of the objections to the Labour leader have become more compelling. That confidence vote happened before it was fully apparent how toxically antisemitism in the party has spread on his watch. I have a huge collection of quotes from Labour MPs about why their leader would be a calamitous prime minister and a government led by him would have frightening consequences for security and the economy. The very same people are now pinning on their red rosettes and urging a vote to put Mr Corbyn into Number 10 even while believing he is utterly unsuitable for the office.

I guess they will rationalise this behaviour by telling themselves that trying to stop Brexit trumps every other consideration or that the Tories are even more hateful or that Labour can’t win anyway, so what’s the harm? A lot of them deployed that latter excuse during the 2017 campaign. Confronted on the doorstep by the Corbyn-wary or the Corbyn-averse, many of Labour’s candidates told these voters that it was safe to pick Labour because the party couldn’t possibly win and once it had been defeated they’d get rid of him. Labour didn’t win, but they then didn’t get rid of him. This time around, it won’t be possible for Labour candidates to offer honest guarantees that a Labour vote won’t put Mr Corbyn into Number 10, because it possibly might.

For the voter, and there are many of them, who regards both men as terrible candidates for the premiership this election is a struggle of the unfittest. It poses the nation with a hideous choice. Our electoral system doesn’t offer the opportunity to cross a box marked Labour (but not Corbyn) or Conservative (but not Johnson).

The best hope for all who shudder at the thought of either man at Number 10 is another hung parliament. That will at least place some constraints on the havoc that either can inflict.

 

NDPP

Brexit at Risk as Leavers Divide (podcast)

https://bit.ly/2NjkYtC

"Brendan O'Neill, editor of Spiked-online talks to Eamon about the upcoming British general election."

 

The Brexit Club (podcast)

https://twitter.com/Partizan_STK/status/1192516683967148032

"In which we dive into the mess that is Brexit, the EU, the Labour Party and the union movement..."

NDPP

George Galloway, The Mother of All Talkshows, Ep 21 (and vid)

https://youtu.be/IqZKnK-Tpts

"Joining us on the show is Chris Williamson - former MP for Derby North, who will discuss antisemitism in UK's Labour Party..." Listen also to caller Chris Mclade, long-time UK Labour voter and supporter on why he won't be this time @ 2:46:49. 'An authentic voice of England.' To Corbyn and  UK Labour Remain: 'they are many and you are few.'

nicky

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mEcof6z3O6o

Owen Jones takes down Boris Johnson.

Sonething Ken and I can agree on.

josh

To see @evoespueblo who, along with a powerful movement, has brought so much social progress forced from office by the military is appalling. 

I condemn this coup against the Bolivian people and stand with them for democracy, social justice and independence. #ElMundoConEvo

Would a Blair, Brown, Milliband or Watson have said that?  I think not.

josh

Brexit Party (NI) leader Nigel Farage announces his party will not contest the 317 seats won by the Conservative Party (ECR) in the previous general election in an attempt to not split the pro-brexit vote.

nicky

Westminster voting intention in...

Core cities:
LAB: 31% (-23)
CON: 26% (-5)
LDEM: 22% (+15)
GRN: 8% (+6)
BREX: 7% (+7)

via @YouGov
Chgs. w/ GE2017

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

At The World Transformed this year we experimented with a different kind of policymaking. Through ten TWT Policy Labs, we wanted to use the knowledge, experience and ideas of everyone at the festival to outline a society that works for all. Our aims were simple but far-reaching: to create a sense of agency and ownership for people within the political process; to encourage participants to move beyond critiques of the current system towards more tangible policy proposals and solutions, and to inspire new models of grassroots action.​

Manifesto for the Movement

quote:

People feel like they have lost control. Politicians tell them they have their best interests at heart but money, power and wealth remain in the hands of the few. In order to change this, we need radical policy solutions that not only benefit local communities but are designed and implemented by the people themselves.

We need to use everyone’s knowledge, experience and enthusiasm to create policies designed to build a better society. There is an increasing interest in participatory policy making with proposals like citizens’ assemblies and local referenda capturing imaginations across the country. The Labour Party itself has started to test these ideas with the National Policy Forum and the much anticipated Democracy Review. As a movement, we want to push these deliberative ways of policy making to the forefront of our politics and help participants, policy experts and the Labour Party find new processes and new solutions to the big challenges of today.

Our aims are simple but wide reaching:

– We want to create a sense of agency and ownership for participants within the Labour Party and the political process more broadly.

– We want to encourage participants to move beyond critiques of the current system towards more tangible policy proposals and solutions. 

 –We want to inspire the Labour Party to think radically about specific policy areas that need further debate.

– We want to instil confidence and respect - both within the Labour Party and the wider policy profession - for the wisdom of the grass-roots and the potential of the participatory, democratic activity.

– We want to test a new model of grassroots action - in turn demonstrating a new deliberative and participatory type of policy-making - which can be strengthened and developed for the future.

From education to crime policy, we have used the collective power of people to write a manifesto for the movement. The manifesto was created through policy labs that focused on specific policy areas, which explored the current landscape in these areas to see whether the Labour Party should be pushing for more radical alternatives. These processes were deliberative and participatory, and we hope it showed people the kind of policymaking we could and should be doing

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