2020 USA presidential election

668 posts / 0 new
Last post
Aristotleded24

cco wrote:
Douglas Fir Premier wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Why would anyone vote for Biden when he can't string a coherent sentence together and he has been accued of sexually assaulting one of his aides?

The Supreme Court.

I get and respect why people some people might not be able to bring themselves to vote for him.

But - as someone who's well to the left of the Democrats - that's the reason I'd probably hold my nose and vote for him, if I were a U.S. citizen and eligible to vote in a competitive state.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 87, and has faced a string of health problems in recent years. Stephen Breyer is 81. Clarence Thomas is 71, and is rumoured to have health problems of his own. And Samuel Alito - while a mere 70 years young - might look at RBG as a cautionary tale, and opt to retire while a Republican is still in the White House, depending on how things are looking after the 2022 midterms.

If Trump gets another four years in office, there's a very realistic chance that there will be six Trump appointees on the Supreme Court by 2024.

The right-wing Democratic establishment has already started hammering on this line. It's the ultimate Charlie Brown football: The Supreme Court! You must not think of anything but the Supreme Court! Fuck policy, fuck sick people, fuck stopping the slaughter of brown people overseas, fuck the collapsed economy, fuck your future, fuck your kids, fuck your grandkids. Settle for the hope of a Supreme Court justice who, 30 years down the line, might not vote to overturn your fundamental rights. That's what American politics is now.

Joe Biden has already promised to veto Medicare for all. Do you think Supreme Court justices he picks will uphold any state's single-payer system? He opposes abortion. Think his justices will uphold Roe v. Wade? He's an architect of racist mass incarceration policies. But now we're supposed to believe he'll appoint a left-wing Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court, like everything else, was lost as soon as Bernie dropped out.

We know that the Republicans are going to have bad supreme court picks. But is the idea that the Democrats would have substantially better picks based on anything other than fantasy and projection? Did Clinton or Biden ever once themselves raise that issue as to why Trump should be defeated? Remember that when the vacancy that Kavanaugh eventually ended up filling happened under Obama, Obama didn't even really challenge the Republican obstructionism. Do we have any reason to believe that Biden would fight for his nominee in the face of a hostile Republican Senate?

Sean in Ottawa

BTW when I say that people willl not obey a quarantine if left with nothing I mean this for a few reasons:

1) desperation -- they will try to sell property on social media for food. Can you blame them? I eventually may have to consider this myself

2) They will not respect the authorities that would put them in this position.  Can you blame them? Already I considered going to Trudeau's sidewalk and demonstrating letting the arrest me. I would claim no income is an emergency in court.

3) Once you run out of critical supplies eventually someone might suggest you come over. What else are you going to do.

This exclusion of what is billed as public humanitarian aid is not only inhumane it is shitty health policy.

(So far I am staying home -- and I will do so till I run completely dry. I may be able to go on quite a while burning through my life savings - I still have a few months left of the money that I thought I would have in retirement. I refuse to make promises that I will stay home and starve once this is all gone though. At some point I will try to sell things I have rather than stay home like a good Canadian and STFU.)

Aristotleded24

josh wrote:

Michael Moriarity wrote:

josh wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Why would anyone vote for Biden when he can't string a coherent sentence together and he has been accued of sexually assaulting one of his aides?

And when did you stop beating your wife.

Which one of these 2 assertions do you consider lacking in evidence?

YouTube is full of mashups of Biden talking insanely about Corn Pop, mistaking New Hampshire for Vermont and telling voters who question him that they should just vote for Trump. Al Franken was forced to resign from the senate over far less serious sexual allegations. Thousands of Republican ads will display the evidence of both, and they should be starting right about now, since Bernie has dropped out and the Rs no longer have to worry about having a competent opponent for Trump.

Biden may still win, but it will be strictly an anti-Trump vote, which failed for Hillary, and may well fail for him as well.

With all the video of Trump's insanity?  If they want to go that route, they'll be more than matched.  Same with the sexual assault allegation.  With Franken there was a photo.

The difference is that nobody expects the Republians or Trump to champion women's rights, and that is not a primary motivating factor for Republican voters. It doesn't have the power to sway anybody. The Democrats, on the other hand, paint themselves as the defenders of women and their values, but the truth is that's more about using that as a club to hit Republicans over the head with than any actually principled stance. Look how differently the Democratic Establishment reacted to the allegations against Brett Kavanaugh versus those against Joe Biden. There's a rank hypocrisy in the Democratic Party that their supporters will not tolerate.

Besides, how many accusations did Trump face before he won in 2016?  You think more accusations that come out now will sway people?

Douglas Fir Premier

cco wrote:

The right-wing Democratic establishment has already started hammering on this line. It's the ultimate Charlie Brown football: The Supreme Court! You must not think of anything but the Supreme Court! Fuck policy, fuck sick people, fuck stopping the slaughter of brown people overseas, fuck the collapsed economy, fuck your future, fuck your kids, fuck your grandkids. Settle for the hope of a Supreme Court justice who, 30 years down the line, might not vote to overturn your fundamental rights. That's what American politics is now.

Joe Biden has already promised to veto Medicare for all. Do you think Supreme Court justices he picks will uphold any state's single-payer system? He opposes abortion. Think his justices will uphold Roe v. Wade? He's an architect of racist mass incarceration policies. But now we're supposed to believe he'll appoint a left-wing Supreme Court.

I'm well aware of Biden's record and positions on these issues. And nowhere have I ever claimed nor implied that a Biden presidency would result in a left-wing Supreme Court.

But I think it's reasonable to assume that Biden would be selecting his nominees from a different pool of candidates than Trump. And I also think it's resonable to assume that Trump's pool of candidates will generally be to the right of Biden's on the vast majority of issues. Those are merely my assumptions. I could certainly be wrong. My point was not that Biden will deliver a left-wing (or even a liberal) court. I am merely suggesting that his election might be the only thing standing in the way of a 7-2 conservative majority court, packed with six Trump appointees, and presided over by George W. Bush's Chief Justice.

And I actually do think that anyone Biden would nominate is likely to be vetted and committed to upholding Roe v. Wade, for much the same reasons that Canada did not see abortion recriminalized despite having an anti-choice evangelical Christian for prime minister for nearly a decade. Regardless of how he personally feels about abortion, I don't believe that Biden is more invested in doing away with the right to choose than he is at winning and maintaining power for himself and his party. Maybe I'm naïve, but I don't think overturning Roe v. Wade - thereby eliminating one of the few remaining reasons many still bother voting Democrat - is how he wants to be remembered after he's gone.

And as for "fuck sick people, fuck stopping the slaughter of brown people overseas, fuck the collapsed economy, fuck your future, fuck your kids, fuck your grandkids"; if there's a more viable candidate to address these concerns on the ballot on November 3rd, I would encourage everyone to choose that one. And if not, and you're in a competitive state; vote for the least worst option, and then get back to organizing like our lives depend on it.

Douglas Fir Premier

Aristotleded24 wrote:

cco wrote:
Douglas Fir Premier wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Why would anyone vote for Biden when he can't string a coherent sentence together and he has been accued of sexually assaulting one of his aides?

The Supreme Court.

I get and respect why people some people might not be able to bring themselves to vote for him.

But - as someone who's well to the left of the Democrats - that's the reason I'd probably hold my nose and vote for him, if I were a U.S. citizen and eligible to vote in a competitive state.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 87, and has faced a string of health problems in recent years. Stephen Breyer is 81. Clarence Thomas is 71, and is rumoured to have health problems of his own. And Samuel Alito - while a mere 70 years young - might look at RBG as a cautionary tale, and opt to retire while a Republican is still in the White House, depending on how things are looking after the 2022 midterms.

If Trump gets another four years in office, there's a very realistic chance that there will be six Trump appointees on the Supreme Court by 2024.

The right-wing Democratic establishment has already started hammering on this line. It's the ultimate Charlie Brown football: The Supreme Court! You must not think of anything but the Supreme Court! Fuck policy, fuck sick people, fuck stopping the slaughter of brown people overseas, fuck the collapsed economy, fuck your future, fuck your kids, fuck your grandkids. Settle for the hope of a Supreme Court justice who, 30 years down the line, might not vote to overturn your fundamental rights. That's what American politics is now.

Joe Biden has already promised to veto Medicare for all. Do you think Supreme Court justices he picks will uphold any state's single-payer system? He opposes abortion. Think his justices will uphold Roe v. Wade? He's an architect of racist mass incarceration policies. But now we're supposed to believe he'll appoint a left-wing Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court, like everything else, was lost as soon as Bernie dropped out.

We know that the Republicans are going to have bad supreme court picks. But is the idea that the Democrats would have substantially better picks based on anything other than fantasy and projection? Did Clinton or Biden ever once themselves raise that issue as to why Trump should be defeated? Remember that when the vacancy that Kavanaugh eventually ended up filling happened under Obama, Obama didn't even really challenge the Republican obstructionism. Do we have any reason to believe that Biden would fight for his nominee in the face of a hostile Republican Senate?

I'm not sure if you're directing your questions at me or cco.

I look at who Trump has appointed to the court so far. And I look at who Obama, Clinton, and Bushes I and II appointed. Are the Democratic appointees far enough to the left to align with my politics? Not by a long shot. Are they to the left of the Republican appointees? I'd say yes. Does that make them substantially better? Well, unless one believes that Supreme Court rulings don't have real world consequences, even the slightest bit better (the difference between 5-4 and 4-5) is actually quite substantial.

Of course I remember the failure of Obama's final nominee. I don't see any parallel between that debacle and how I expect things would play out if Biden should win. That vacancy was the result of Scalia's unexpected death with an election less than 10 months away. If Biden wins, I expect that Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer would both retire within the first year or two. Let's say the Republicans hold on to a slim majority in the senate, putting Biden in a position where he has to nominate candidates who are sufficiently moderate to garner the needed votes from the other side of the aisle. That would not be ideal, but it wouldn't be another Merrick Garland situation. Those two vacancies would get filled. If Biden wins, I expect Alito would stay put, as would Thomas - if his health allows. If that's how it plays out, the court would remain relatively unchanged in its leanings, but having gotten younger on the moderate side of the bench.

If, on the other hand, Biden loses; how much longer can Ginsburg hang on? Until the 2024 election, when she'll be 91? Will Breyer want to retire before he turns 86? Even if they both somehow have the will and good fortune to stick around, I would expect Thomas to provide Trump with at least one more opportunity to nominate someone to the court. And as I said before, I could see Alito considering his retirement after the 2022 midterms. With a Trump win, the best case scenario is that it remains status quo, and we go into the unknown of the 2024 election with a 5-4 conservative majority, and RBG and Breyer still on the bench.

Or maybe he gets four more vacancies, Republican control of the senate, and we end up with a 7-2 conservative majority for a generation.

Even if we are unlikely to be satisfied with Biden's nominees, I would see value in having him make those picks rather than Trump.

josh

Did Clinton or Biden ever once themselves raise that issue as to why Trump should be defeated?

Clinton raised it countless times.

NDPP

David Swanson: Why You Should Never Vote For Joe Biden

https://davidswanson.org/why-you-should-never-vote-for-joe-biden/

"...I don't think lesser evilists are evil. I don't think they're insane. I don't think they're failing to make an argument. I think they're failing to recognize the side effects of the treatment they're prescribing for our ills. I think that every four years we get two choices that are more evil than the time before. Here's Trump four years the worse than last time, versus Biden who's been repeatedly rejected in the past over his warmongering, corporate prostituting and general lack of anything positive to offer.

And the idea of changing society to get better choices while returning to lesser-evil voting at intervals is immensely impeded by what lesser-evil thinking does to its practioners. They join the team. They self-censor. They slant. They become partisan. And activism and discourse and policy all go down the tubes...The question is not whether to compromise. It's whether to bow face-down in the mud and whether doing so is strategically smart..."

'The more often a stupidity is repeated, the more it takes on the appearance of wisdom.' - Voltaire -

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

David Swanson: Why You Should Never Vote For Joe Biden

https://davidswanson.org/why-you-should-never-vote-for-joe-biden/

"...I don't think lesser evilists are evil. I don't think they're insane. I don't think they're failing to make an argument. I think they're failing to recognize the side effects of the treatment they're prescribing for our ills. I think that every four years we get two choices that are more evil than the time before. Here's Trump four years the worse than last time, versus Biden who's been repeatedly rejected in the past over his warmongering, corporate prostituting and general lack of anything positive to offer.

And the idea of changing society to get better choices while returning to lesser-evil voting at intervals is immensely impeded by what lesser-evil thinking does to its practioners. They join the team. They self-censor. They slant. They become partisan. And activism and discourse and policy all go down the tubes...The question is not whether to compromise. It's whether to bow face-down in the mud and whether doing so is strategically smart..."

'The more often a stupidity is repeated, the more it takes on the appearance of wisdom.' - Voltaire -

This is complete madness.

The logic, or lack therof, behind this does not reflect the dangers to the political system in the US or the extreme misery that will increase on millions of people in the US and outside. Biden may be a mainstream no-good candidate. He is not at significant risk of bringing the US to the point of defacto dictatorship.

The US must be understood to have an extremely weak democracy to the point that we have to use the word generously to include them. Trump is threatening the remaining few checks and balances that exist. Assuming that there can be a cmpetative election this fall (and we are not even sure about that) it is clear there will not be one four years after that.

Trump is also a global menace more serious - even - than his predesseors

Sure both candidates are bad. But Biden does not threaten the 2024 election in the very real way Trump does. The US gets a do-over then if they elect Biden and  are not certain to get one with Trump. If you look at the authoritarian trend since 2016 you should not have any confidence things will get better under Trump for 2024.

The argument against lesser evil works in theory but at the extremes it fails utterly because you need to preserve a base for change. Trump is determined to blow that up. His attacks on the political culture of the US may destroy all hope for the futre of that country well before 2024. Suicide is not a valid cure for heart disease. The US does not have good choices on the table in this election. What it has is a bad choice vs a potentially catastrophic and semi permanent crisis. 

A note on leaders: Biden can be a bad choise but he is a product of his party. This party has been influneced by OAC and Sanders adn is facing an internal conflict. It is not what it was and even if he may not be what he was. He is an establishment candidate which means he is influened by the party considerably including its evolutions as slow as they might be. He may also choose a very progressive candidate for Vice President as his best chance at election. That person may be President befor ethe end of the term and be well positioned to win in 2024.

Trump is a raving madman leading a revolution of barely concealed nazis, libertarians, extreme right wing revolutionairies, sadists, incompetents, and kleptocrats. He has unknown conditions that seem to include a desire to inflict maximum pain on others for his personal enjoyment. It sucks for supporters of Sanders but this is no ordinary election. This is a 5 alarm fire for the vestiges of any chance that anything better can ever happen in the US.

Someone has to tell the Bernie Sanders supporters who are thinking they might stay home or vote other than Biden that not voting for Biden will not bring back Sanders -- it will only risk the chance that the US may not be able to have a candidate like Sanders any time in the next century.

Someone should tell Sanders supporters that allowing the re-election of a man who muses about totalitarian directions regularly, including suppression, end to term limits and the absolute control of the leader is beyond stupid.

Someone should tell Sanders supporters to listen to Sanders. He sacrificed a campaign that was looking at long odds but not certain defeat. He did htis for the reasons above.

Aristotleded24

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
The logic, or lack therof, behind this does not reflect the dangers to the political system in the US or the extreme misery that will increase on millions of people in the US and outside. Biden may be a mainstream no-good candidate. He is not at significant risk of bringing the US to the point of defacto dictatorship.

This is the same ridiculous fearmongering bullshit that the Democratic Party has shoved down our throats for decades. "If a Republican gets elected, life as we know it will end, the sun will burn out, the moon will turn to blood, and the stars will fall out of the sky and scorch everything on impact. We are doomed!" Well, after 4 years of Trump, most of us are still here. People tune that out after a while.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

NDPP wrote:
The US must be understood to have an extremely weak democracy to the point that we have to use the word generously to include them. Trump is threatening the remaining few checks and balances that exist. Assuming that there can be a cmpetative election this fall (and we are not even sure about that) it is clear there will not be one four years after that.

The Democrats have had control of the House for 2 years, have signed off on increases to Trump's military budget that he asked for, and also signed off on his new version of NAFTA. They give the theatre of resisting as a means to emotionally manitpulate their supporters and say, "send us money so we can stop Trump and the Republicans" while going along with him on the major issues.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
But Biden does not threaten the 2024 election in the very real way Trump does. The US gets a do-over then if they elect Biden and  are not certain to get one with Trump. If you look at the authoritarian trend since 2016 you should not have any confidence things will get better under Trump for 2024.

Nothing fundamental is going to change under Biden. He said he would veto Medicare For All. He has no plans for a Green New Deal. He has no plans to dial back foreign military adventures, or even reverse any of the actions that Bush II, Obama, and Trump have taken towards authoritarianism. That will leave people very angry and frustrated, and a second Trump will be able to come in, take advantage of that, and win.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
A note on leaders: Biden can be a bad choise but he is a product of his party. This party has been influneced by OAC and Sanders adn is facing an internal conflict. It is not what it was and even if he may not be what he was. He is an establishment candidate which means he is influened by the party considerably including its evolutions as slow as they might be. He may also choose a very progressive candidate for Vice President as his best chance at election. That person may be President befor ethe end of the term and be well positioned to win in 2024.

Actually when it comes to AOC, it's the other way around. She is knuckling under to the Democratic Establishment. She only endorsed 2 progressive challengers to right-wing Democrats this time around, she has replaced some of her more radical staffers with staffers who are more comfortable working in Congress, and she has earned praise from the likes of Neera Tanden. As Kshama Sawant said, the Democratic Party is where left-wing movements go to die. The Democrats are very good at allowing enough people like AOC and Dennis Kucinich before her to win so that the left thinks they can take over the party, but they maintain the levers of control. The Establishment shows no signs of bending to the left at all. As mentioned, Biden said he would veto Medicare For All if it reached his desk. Nanci Pelosi dismissed the Green New Deal as the "green dream or whatever." Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein was dismissive of a group of school children who asked her to sign onto a Green New Deal because they are terrified of the future that climate change will bring. They are ruthless. Furthermore, there are signs that Klobuchar and Buttigieg were promised positions of power and influence in a Biden Cabinet if they dropped out and endorsed him on Super Tuesday. That is what tipped Biden over the edge. Voting for Biden will only reward that behaviour, and that is craven behaviour that should not be rewarded.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
Someone has to tell the Bernie Sanders supporters who are thinking they might stay home or vote other than Biden that not voting for Biden will not bring back Sanders -- it will only risk the chance that the US may not be able to have a candidate like Sanders any time in the next century.

Yes, Sanders is a once-in-a-lifetime candidate. It's too bad that the DNC along with their media allies and MSNBC did everything they could to tank his campaign. This is all the more reason to mobilize to build a third party that can actually be competitive, instead of falling for the fear-mongering I described in the first part of this thread. Had the Michael Moores of the world, instead of begging the Democrats to move left, had themselves fought to build a third party for the last 20, 25, or 30 years, we might very well be in a situation where neither the Republicans or Democrats had a majority in either the House and the Senate, and that an independent group of progressive legislators had actual clout and would be an effective resistance to the first Trump coronavirus bailout. For all their grandstanding speeches, AOC and Sanders voted for it. The only resistance to Trump's plan came from a few Republicans.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
Someone should tell Sanders supporters that allowing the re-election of a man who muses about totalitarian directions regularly, including suppression, end to term limits and the absolute control of the leader is beyond stupid.

More ridiculous fearmongering. If the Democrats want to win votes, they should go out and earn them. If they are that worried about Sanders voters staying home, or voting third party, or voting for Trump, they should look in the mirror and ask themselves why. Instead, they just blame everyone else but themselves for why they lose. People have a right to make up their own minds about who they want to vote for.

Why are people always using emotional blackmail tactics on Sanders voters to try and scare them into voting for whoever the Democrats prop up? Why does nobody ever say to folks like Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer, or Nancy Pelosi that if they want to win an election, they are the ones who need to change and accomodate the voters?

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
Someone should tell Sanders supporters to listen to Sanders. He sacrificed a campaign that was looking at long odds but not certain defeat. He did htis for the reasons above.

Not me, us was Sanders' campaign slogan. Sander's most loyal partisans were attracted to him because of the public policy agenda that he espoused and the consistency with which he has done so over the years. It isn't a cult of personality, and many Bernie supporters have openly said that they disagree with such a move. Furthermore, when Sanders began shilling for Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election, his popularity went down and he wasn't able to gather the same crowds he had before. This move also appears to validate critiques from some on the left of Sanders who said that the only prupose of his campaign was to channel the progressive energy into the Democratic Party where it could be dispersed and not pose any threat to the Establishmen. Sanders himself also blundered by treating his "friend Joe" with kid gloves, not calling out his weaknesses, and saying that Biden could win an election. The last thing you do in an election campaign, especially when you have an uphill fight like Sanders did, is to give swing voters permission to vote for any other candidate.

Sean in Ottawa

We will disagree -- I think this is a 5-alarm fire and we have been so used to the deterioration that we do not hear it any more. 

Possibly this started with fearmongering but it is not now

josh

Well, after 4 years of Trump, most of us are still here.

True, but tens of thousands aren't due to his health and environmental policies.  Or lack of same.

Aristotleded24

josh wrote:

Well, after 4 years of Trump, most of us are still here.

True, but tens of thousands aren't due to his health and environmental policies.  Or lack of same.

Many more people aren't here because of the Iraq war, which Joe Biden supported. Biden also does not support Medicare For All, which should he become President many people with serious medical conditions will not survive for financial reasons.

NorthReport

 

Democrats are correct of course as Trump squandered very precious time which Americans are presently paying the price for, and Trump needs to be held accountable for it. The virus damage in the States is overwhelming like no other country on the planet it appears. 

How coronavirus has reshaped Democratic plans for 2020

A new reality is dawning for Democrats: The November election will likely hinge on the way American voters see President Donald Trump's response to the coronavirus.

That belief has grown clearer over the last month, as nearly every Democratic organization has focused their time, messaging and paid media on framing the President's response as an abject failure that highlights the chaos around his White House and the unpredictability he has ushered into American politics.

The full extent of Trump's impact on controlling coronavirus, a pandemic that has wholly remade American life, is likely months away from being revealed. But Democrats aren't waiting -- for either voters to reengage with electoral politics or for the full results of Trump's mitigation efforts to become clear -- an acknowledgment that they believe they must define the President as a failure now to have success come November.

"We have to make the arguments about why he hasn't done a good job as president," said Steve Schale, a veteran Florida political operative who runs Unite the Country, a PAC supporting former Vice President Joe Biden, the presumptive Democratic nominee. "Frankly, there's not a clearer moment than now that we're in this mess, not because he created the coronavirus, but for 50, 60, 70 days, he didn't think it was a big deal."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/11/politics/democrats-2020-strategy-coronavirus/index.html

NorthReport

It's perfect storm time for Americans as they have the worst ever President at the worst possible time (COVID-19)

IDEAS

With Each Briefing, Trump Is Making Us Worse People

He is draining the last reserves of decency among us at a time when we need it most.

Daily, Trump’s opponents are enraged by yet another assault on the truth and basic human decency. His followers are delighted by yet more vulgar attacks on the media and the Democrats. And all of us, angry or pleased, become more like Trump, because just like the president, we end up thinking about only Trump, instead of our families, our fellow citizens, our health-care workers, or the future of our country. We are all forced to take sides every day, and those two sides are always “Trump” and “everyone else.”

Read: Why does the president keep pushing a malaria drug?

Perhaps to call this daily abomination “therapy” is unfair, because therapy has a healing goal. As Jennifer Melfi, the psychotherapist for HBO’s fictional mob boss Tony Soprano, realized at the end of the series, when she finally threw him out of her office, counseling someone incapable of reflection or remorse is pointless; it makes the counselor into a worse person for enduring such long exposure to the patient.

Likewise, Trump’s spiritual poverty is making all of us into worse people. We are all living with him in the moment and neglecting the thing that makes us human beings instead of mindless fish swimming in circles. We must recover this in ourselves, and become more decent, more reflective, and more stoic—before Trump sends us into a hole from which we might never emerge.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/each-briefing-trump-making-us-worse-people/609859/

NorthReport
NorthReport

How badly is Fox News misinterpreting the coronavirus science? Hosts are already declaring victory

Here’s how Fox News is badly misinterpreting the coronavirus science

https://www.salon.com/2020/04/10/how-badly-fox-news-is-misinterpreting-the-coronavirus-science-hosts-are-already-declaring-victory_partner/

NorthReport

We’re Now Living the American Carnage Trump Promised Would End at His Inauguration

Trump is not responsible for the virus itself, but he must be held accountable for his horrifying response to it.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/trump-coronavirus-american-carnage.html

NorthReport

Trump Family Loses Huge Court Fight to Force Fraud and Deceptive Practices Lawsuit into Secret Arbitration

https://lawandcrime.com/lawsuit/trump-family-loses-huge-court-fight-to-force-racketeering-enterprise-lawsuit-into-secret-arbitration/?utm_source=mostpopular

NorthReport

N.Y. nurses lauded for coronavirus efforts find their tires slashed

https://globalnews.ca/news/6807424/coronavirus-new-york-nurses-tires-slashed/

NorthReport

Behind Trump’s Strange ‘Invisible Enemy’ Rhetoric

By branding coronavirus as a hidden menace, he deftly absolves himself of responsibility for its spread.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/04/09/trump-coronavirus-invisible-enemy-177894

NorthReport

Par for the course for Trump

Ex-ambassador says Trump campaign fanning hatred with new ad

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2020/04/10/ex-ambassador-says-trump-campaign-fanning-hatred-with-new-ad/#.XpIb3VNKhp8

NorthReport

How the Pandemic Will End

The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world. This is how it’s going to play out.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/

NorthReport

So much for MAGA!

Why does the USA with only 23% of the China's population have 625% of China's confirmed virus cases?

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

Biden's our only hope now to get rid of Trump! Think about it.

What congressional district do you vote in. Like other Canadians I am akin to a Puerto Rican, I don't get to vote for the POTUS only my local vassal state officials.

NorthReport

Governors, health experts push back on Trump’s goal to reopen economy in May

They warn that without better testing for coronavirus immunity, areas that have made progress could suffer a deadly setback.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/12/phil-murphy-reopen-coronavirus-180974

NorthReport

Biden’s Electability Only Works if There Is an Election

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/biden-won-without-votes.html

Aristotleded24

There is another reason to believe that Biden will not win, and that is support among younger voters. They were key to Obama's victories in 2008 and 2012, as they cancelled out the Republican votes who tended to be older. Even in 2016, Clinton won younger voters. Trump and Biden are tied with young voters right now. Given that turnout and the likelihood of voting Republican increases with age, that is a near certain landslide win for Trump in the Electoral College and the popular vote.

Sean in Ottawa

Aristotleded24 wrote:

There is another reason to believe that Biden will not win, and that is support among younger voters. They were key to Obama's victories in 2008 and 2012, as they cancelled out the Republican votes who tended to be older. Even in 2016, Clinton won younger voters. Trump and Biden are tied with young voters right now. Given that turnout and the likelihood of voting Republican increases with age, that is a near certain landslide win for Trump in the Electoral College and the popular vote.

Don't bet on it.

Older voters are more likely to die on infection and may be less likely to want to go out and vote than in the past. 

I think Trump will try to close as many likely Democrat voting locations as possible to make it difficult for Democrats to vote- and other cheating tactics.

I do not think we are in predictable times. Trump could win by cheating or any of the issues raised here or he could lose badly.

NorthReport
contrarianna

Quote:

David Swanson: Why You Should Never Vote For Joe Biden

https://davidswanson.org/why-you-should-never-vote-for-joe-biden/

"...I don't think lesser evilists are evil. I don't think they're insane. I don't think they're failing to make an argument. I think they're failing to recognize the side effects of the treatment they're prescribing for our ills. ....

Allowing Trump another 4 years while expecting a revolution, or even a candidate one can feel good about, is a huge mistake.

Despite corrupt and destructive commonalities between the Democratic and Republican elite (which I frequently talk about) waiting for a candidate with real progressive credentials or who passes an ideological sniff test in the obviously  rigged system  will result in a dead planet long before that desired outcome.

Saying there is no difference between a corrupt Democrat government and a corrupt Repblican government that is big enough to vote to defeat Trump will be paid for by many people and the planet.

The rejection of "lesser evilism" is, as Chomsky implies, is really a rejection of rationality.

Jan 17, 2020
Noam Chomsky Makes the Case for the Lesser of Two Evils

...on the topic of “lesser evilism,” especially as applied to U.S. politics as voters face a presidential election in 2020 which could lead to President Donald Trump’s reelection.

“We’ve been living all these years,” Scheer argues, “with the illusion that there’s this lesser evil that somehow will make it better. […] I’m frightened out of my mind that it’s four more years of Trump; yes. However, do we really think that the Democrats are going to propose a serious alternative?”

“There’s another word for lesser evilism,” Chomsky replies. “It’s called rationality. Lesser evilism is not an illusion, it’s a rational position. But you don’t stop with lesser evilism. You begin with it, to prevent the worst, and then you go on to deal with the fundamental roots of what’s wrong, even with the lesser evils.”....

“So even if there’s core, deep problems with the institutions, there still are choices between alternatives, which matter a lot,” says the MIT professor. “Small differences in a system with enormous power translate into huge effects   [bold mine], Meanwhile, you don’t stop with a lesser evilism; you continue to try to organize and develop the mass popular movements, which will block the worst and change the institutions. All of these things can go on at once. But the simple question of what button do you push on a particular day? That is a decision, and that matters. It’s not the whole story, by any means. It’s a small part of the story, but it matters.”...

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/noam-chomsky-makes-the-case-for-the-le...

Chomsky on Trump’s Disastrous COVID-19 Response, Sanders and What Gives Him Hope
....
    NOAM CHOMSKY:  If Trump is reelected, it’s a indescribable disaster. It means that the policies of the past four years, which have been extremely destructive to the American population, to the world, will be continued and probably accelerated. What this is going to mean for health is bad enough. I just mentioned the Lancet figures. It will get worse. What this means for the environment or the threat of nuclear war, which no one is talking about but is extremely serious, is indescribable.

    Suppose Biden is elected. I would anticipate it would be essentially a continuation of Obama — nothing very great, but at least not totally destructive, and opportunities for an organized public to change what is being done, to impose pressures.

It’s common to say now that the Sanders campaign failed. I think that’s a mistake. I think it was an extraordinary success, completely shifted the arena of debate and discussion. Issues that were unthinkable a couple years ago are now right in the middle of attention.

The worst crime he committed, in the eyes of the establishment, is not the policy he’s proposing; it’s the fact that he was able to inspire popular movements, which had already been developing — Occupy, Black Lives Matter, many others — and turn them into an activist movement, which doesn’t just show up every couple years to push a leader and then go home, but applies constant pressure, constant activism and so on. That could affect a Biden administration. It could also — even if it’s just a holding action, it means there’s time to deal with the major crises....

https://truthout.org/video/chomsky-on-trumps-disastrous-covid-19-respons...

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

Political tide on crisis threatens to turn against Trump

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/492439-the-memo-political-tide-on-crisis-threatens-to-turn-against-trump

The crisis is opening up new avenues to steal the election/Look at the Wisconsin formula. of 180 polling stations in one Democrat city they closed all but three. Republican area polling stations left open. If you are willing to stand the wait are you willing to contract Covid-19 while waiting? This is a variation on a theme of lilmiting voting in areas the Democrats control

This was not about the Democratic Primary. They were holding an election that decided the State Court. Democrats did not vote Republicans did. This is crucial to then use the court to ensure that the state is effectively stolen for Trump. With the Electoral College the way it is they only need to do this in 4-5 States and Trump wins.

No guarantees depending on how this emergency plays out but there are as many reasons to see Trump win s lose.

As well even if he lost it does not mean that he, and his court, would take that as a loss. They may simply declare fraud and refuse to leave. Don't think the US has much of any democracy now. In fact you would be hard pressed to find any evidence of one. 

Sure you may say they have always been undemocratic but this is a deterioration in critical areas of what was already a system that has always been on the verge of collapsing. What is replacing it is rabid denial of facts and racist nationalism. The US may welcome its exit from the list of countries putting up much of an effort to claim to be democratic.

josh
NorthReport

'

NDPP

Biden Joins the 'Back-to-Work' Bandwagon

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/13/bide-a13.html

"In an op-ed column posted on the website of the NYT Sunday, to be published in the newspaper's print edition Monday, presumptive Democratic Party presidential nominee Joe Biden aligns himself with the campaign by big business and the Trump administration to force workers to go back to work, regardless of the dangers from the coronavirus epidemic. The headline of the column tells the story: 'Joe Biden: My Plan to Safely Reopen America'.

The entire Democratic Party from its most conservative senator to the self-proclaimed 'democratic socialist' Sanders voted to back legislation that is a far greater bonanza for the financial overlords than the bailouts that followed the 2008 Wall Street crash. According to one of the more conservative estimates, the first round of COVID-19 will kill 60,000 people in the US, but a second round ignited by a premature reopening of factories, offices and other workplaces, could kill another 140,000 people..."

 

Issues Bernie (generously) never raised about Biden

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1249374132275499009

  • credible sexual assault allegations
  • A pattern of unwanted touching
  • Burisma
  • Lying about civil rights record

Issues which are relevent to Biden's electability argument (his only real appeal):

 

Sean in Ottawa

Meanwhile Trump declared (according to Raw Story) that it is not the State governors' decisions to open the US but his. Note it was the Governors who ordered the social distancing.

So, if Trump wants to overrule the Governors, this might be the step too far. Some facts:

1) States run federal elections

2) Trump influences the success of GOP senators but not nearly as much as the governor of the State they are representing

3) States rights is part of the GOP religion

If Trump decided to overrule governors there would be a few phone calls from Republican governors to their federal senators telling them it is time for  removal and a new Republican candidate. A few calls may go to the President telling him that a dictator move over the Governors will lose him his job.

Of course if Trump did this anyway and the Republicans picked someone else -- then Democrats would take Biden out to the woodshed and he would come back resigning from the campaign for personal reasons and a canddiate designed to defeat the new Republican would be found before convention.

Your guess is as good as mine who the dandidates will be and who would win. I am sure Michelle Obama's phone would be buzzing and she would either be asked to be the candidate or to convince an acceptable one to run.

This is what I mean by a curve ball to hit this campaign. I feel something is going to happen that changes everything. I cannot predict what.

In this case I think moron trump would stand down and not overrule Governors on an over-reached order for opening. But if he did -- I think  he is nearer to a breaking point than he realizes. He is fast becoming a liability for Senators looking for re-election and they do have the power to bury him. My guess is they will try to hold out until just before the convention and if Trump has not fixed his sinking popularity, he might find himself replaced on the ticket -- this comes up faster if he challenges governors over state rights.

NorthReport

The COVID-19 Blame Game Is Going To Get Uglier

And the party that handles the pandemic best will most likely gain.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-covid-19-blame-game-is-going-to-get-uglier/

cco

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

3) States rights is part of the GOP religion

I have to disagree with you on this one. States' rights have always been a rhetorical trick for the GOP, not an article of faith. They support states' rights to do things like maintain segregation, ban gay marriage, and subsidize religion, but are dead-set against states' rights to implement gun control or health care. If Trump overrules governors, they will back him, because he's Trump and some of those governors are Democrats.

Sean in Ottawa

cco wrote:
Sean in Ottawa wrote:

3) States rights is part of the GOP religion

I have to disagree with you on this one. States' rights have always been a rhetorical trick for the GOP, not an article of faith. They support states' rights to do things like maintain segregation, ban gay marriage, and subsidize religion, but are dead-set against states' rights to implement gun control or health care. If Trump overrules governors, they will back him, because he's Trump and some of those governors are Democrats.

States rights is their mantra. I am not going to debate with you the parts of every religion that are hypocritical. I think the GOP is not more hypocritical than religions on their articles of faith. How about Conservative Christians and their approach to poverty? The GOP to protect their interests in the most Conservative states have fought for state's rights for more than a century.

However, today Trump explained how he has this total control and he is in fact correct. The Federal government in the US has competed with states to amass a stockpile that they are guarding miserly. Trump has the ability to control this and other national resources. Trump has explained that he will cut off and let any state suffer, killing millions if they do not agree with him. This is what he meant earlier when he said they HAVE to be nice.

This will allow Trump to say that he will not directly enforce an opening. Instead he will reward with aid the states who are cooperative with him. This preserves the religion of State's rights (yes I know it is hypocritical) while exerting total power. Republican states will get the resources of the nation and Democrat states will be blamed for not being cooperative.

what I was referring too above was the claim that Trump made that more formally asserted Federal control. Today Trump made clar that this was about being nice to him, cooperating with him under threat of blackmail. It totally avoids the issue of States rights and in fact shows loyalty to Republicans. The REpublicans in the US hate the Democrats and are fine with them dying.

The additional resources provided to Republican Sates will allow them to understand the value of being Republican and the Democrat states would not have voted for Trump anyway. So this could work politically. This is the kind of calculation that exists in the man the US elected and chose to keep in office.

The question politically does remain if the battleground states may not find this acceptable. However, a concerted campaign to steal the votes there could work. It is risky as Wisconcin demonstrated this week and could backfire.

Trump is very directly contemplating first degree murder. This is intentional, planned and predictable.

Cody87

NorthReport wrote:

So much for MAGA!

Why does the USA with only 23% of the China's population have 625% of China's confirmed virus cases?

The real question is why do you believe China's numbers? 

NorthReport

30% of the cases on our planet are in the USA.  Absolutely staggering. The USA is a failed state.

No one is suggesting the Chinese's Leadership didn't make serious mistakes, by not being forthright at the beginning . So the figures are off a bit, still the USA statistics are stunningly horrific. The USA covid-19 situation is in a league by itself on our fragile planet, and the Americans will know who to primarily blame come November - their very own President!

NorthReport

All Republicans should be forced to go to Dr Trump, their Clown President, for their prescriptions

All pilots barred from taking drug Trump touts against virus

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/airline-pilots-barred-from-taking-drug-trump-touts-against-virus

 

contrarianna

Sanders endorsement of Biden in video exchange:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9fJscW8Ego

Even without Sanders' (likely, though limited) influence on Biden's platform, those who wouldn't vote for Biden in the the belief that Biden would be as bad for the planet and people requires a huge denial of reality in so many areas.

Hold out for something better? You'll hold head out your head in a paper bag before that opportunity.

NorthReport

Trump Responds to Reports About His Incompetence by Flying Into a Self-Pitying Rage at Press

He even brought his own hastily made propaganda reel.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/trump-coronavirus-briefing-pity-tantrum.html

NorthReport

Hopefully a sign of the times!

Liberal Challenger Defeats Conservative Incumbent in Wisconsin Supreme Court Race

Republicans’ voter suppression efforts appear to have backfired.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/jill-karofsky-wisconsin-supreme-court.html

NorthReport

California governor outlines plan to reopen in conjunction with West Coast states

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/politics/california-economy-coronavirus-newsom/index.html

Cody87

NorthReport wrote:

30% of the cases on our planet are in the USA.  Absolutely staggering. The USA is a failed state.

Well, only if you believe China's numbers...and Iran's...and Russia's...and that Africa has the means to test for it...

Pages