The Afghan people will win - part 14

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Polunatic2

"Suspended" Afghan MP Malalai Joya calls for the immediate withdrawal of foreign troops and to let the Afghan people settle their problems on their own. She spoke at the NDP Convention more than three years ago. Olivia Chow helped introduce her at an event in Toronto last week.

So I still don't get it. First, I can't find the NDP policy on Afghanistan on their website. Second, whenever Cdn soldiers are killed, the NDP issues a template news release that does not call for removing Canadian troops. Third, why does the NDP call on negotiations with the "Taliban" when in fact, Canada's "partners" in Afghanistan include the warlords and druglords that make up part of the Karzai government?

It seem that the NDP support Joya, just not her position on immediate withdrawal of all foreign troops.

Unionist

Very perceptive. It's sad.

Webgear

The NDP are playing both sides, they do not want to make a stand on either side of the issue. They are lacking morals.

Slumberjack

Polunatic2 wrote:
So I still don't get it. First, I can't find the NDP policy on Afghanistan on their website.

Its at the bottom of a list called "other priorities" contained as the fourth entry under a heading called Canada: Global Leadership in Peace and Justice to wit: (highlights and emphasis are my own)

"Withdraw all Canadian forces from the Afghanistan combat mission, with reasonable advance notice and in consultation with our allies. (notice the gaping omission of withdrawal from Afghanistan entirely...which means withdrawal to a safer zone for political reasons)

Ensure that Canada delivers on the aid and development assistance commitment made through the Afghanistan Compact. wtf???

Ensure that women and human rights groups in Afghanistan can access Canadian development dollars, and that corruption at all levels of government is addressed effectively.  (they might have to start frisking members of the government they will work with for this to happen)

Ensure that the United Nations, not NATO or the US, becomes the lead organization in the provision of security and development assistance in Afghanistan.  (A UN which contracts security out to the US and to NATO, while rogue non-lead USian forces roam the country and the airspace at will with their own agenda of extermination)

Explore and promote opportunities for negotiating peace at the national, regional and international levels, in line with proposals made by the President of Afghanistan and leading security experts." (in line with CIA front men and puppets)

No wonder they want to bury this as deeply as they can on the website, while still having something to point towards should the question be raised of what their actual policy is.  Billions of dollars being spent, hundreds of Canadians dead, maimed and psychologically damaged for life, and a lead role in conjunction with other predator nations in the ravaging of another land and people whose suffering at the hands of western interests continues without end, and this is all they can come up with.  Pathetic and useless are the kindest words to describe this farce.

Unionist

The Afghans stymie the combined military might of the most powerful in the world using home-made explosive contraptions and brilliant networking strategies with the local communities. And you're concerned about their lack of entrepreneurial spirit!? LOL!!!

Unionist

Entrepreneurial spirit. LOL!

Unionist

This reflects the concerted attempt, led by Dawn Black at the time, to distort the simple, principled decision made by almost all the delegates to the 2006 Québec City convention. For a moment, the NDP was the only party which stood for relatively unconditional disengagement of Canada from this criminal adventure (the Bloc has shamefully never supported immediate withdrawal, for reasons best known to Gilles Duceppe, even though the overwhelming majority of Quebeckers do). After a brief period of flirtation with democracy and a principled stand, Jack Layton moved over entirely to Dawn Black's position - and no one of note in the party has challenged that stand since.

 

Webgear

LMAO

remind remind's picture

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, those bad bad bad NDP, the plight of  Afghans is all their fault.

 

They have dupped Malalai Joy!

 

Those bastards......

Unionist

There's nothing wrong with the NDP, remind. The convention, where ordinary folk gather and speak their minds, showed that. It's a couple of people who control policy that are the problem. And no, they haven't duped Joya. She continues to call for Canada to withdraw now, even though they don't.

remind remind's picture

Oh yes, that baddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd Dawn Black, unprincipled person that she is, never done a goddamn thing for women, nor Canadians, her whole mission in life was to destroy Afghans and democracy in Canada...

canuquetoo

Unionist wrote:

The Afghans stymie the combined military might of the most powerful in the world using home-made explosive contraptions and brilliant networking strategies with the local communities. And you're concerned about their lack of entrepreneurial spirit!? LOL!!!

Wrong again, as usual. My point is that Afghan entrepreneurial skills are second to none but they cannot flourish in the face of violence. My concern is that Afghanistan will never be allowed to determine its own destiny by one or another meddler.

I have all confidence in the hardy Afghans and none in the moral superiority of the western Hurst syndrome hairshirts that offer only empty platitudes.

You preen and gloat  about "using home-made explosive contraptions and brilliant networking strategies" without even an empty-headed thought about the "brilliant strategies" of the Iranian and Pakistani intelligence services that supply advanced munitions and logistics to peoples they only consider as dupes to advance their own strategic interests.

Also, the Afghans haven't stymied anything militarily. They have merely benefited from the politically unpalatable option of what Mao consided counter - insurgency, namely killing everything that moves. This solution was used by the Germans in WWII as well as the Russians and Chinese to no effect on the victims' intransigence or will to survive. The concept destroyed infrastructure and killed untold numbers of civilians but the will of the people survived.

I am of the opinion that Afghans can determine their own destiny without help, if left to their own devices but the concept that "the Afghan people will win" if only the western 'invaders' leave, without any analysis of the other players' intentions  is ludicrous.

 

George Victor

remind: "Oh yes, that baddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd Dawn Black, unprincipled person that she is, never done a goddamn thing for women, nor Canadians, her whole mission in life was to destroy Afghans and democracy in Canada..."

 

Laughing

Webgear

"All Canadians can be proud of the men and women of the Canadian Forces that courageously risk their lives every day in Afghanistan and elsewhere."

"I join Canadians from coast to coast to coast in praying for the quick recovery of the two soldiers who were wounded in the explosion. We pray, too, for the safety of all our soldiers as they continue the fight in Afghanistan."

"We should all be proud of the men and women of the Canadian Forces that courageously risk their lives every day in Afghanistan"

"My thoughts and prayers go out to Pte. Lormand's family and his colleagues as they mourn this loss. We will all remember his work in Afghanistan with pride."

"We remember the brave men and women who fought in two world wars, in Korea, in Afghanistan, and in NATO and UN peacekeeping missions across the globe."

 http://www.ndp.ca/

 

Unionist

George Victor wrote:

remind: "Oh yes, that baddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd Dawn Black, unprincipled person that she is, never done a goddamn thing for women, nor Canadians, her whole mission in life was to destroy Afghans and democracy in Canada..."

 

Laughing

I actually have high regard for Dawn Black's consistent work on behalf of women. I'm not entirely sure how that justifies her stance on Afghanistan, nor the kind of exaggerated jocularity reflected by the two above posts.

remind remind's picture

yep, the NDP is wayyyy off base, they should be trashing those soldiers, and their families, who died.....along with all WW, Korean, and Peace Keeping vets, what were they thinking expressing prayers, empathy and condolences....

George Victor

It's your "all or nothing" approach to people,  U. No offense. We take up this point occasionally. 'Bama, most recently. You have to cut folks more slack. And it is NOT that some of us don't feel the pain.  Suggesting that would initiate a VERY painful back and forth.

Fidel

Polunatic2 wrote:
Third, why does the NDP call on negotiations with the "Taliban" when in fact, Canada's "partners" in Afghanistan include the warlords and druglords that make up part of the Karzai government?...It seem that the NDP support Joya, just not her position on immediate withdrawal of all foreign troops.

Well we've had babblers suggesting that the Taliban will win this phony war regardless. And we've been encouraged to compare this war to the VietNam conflict, but only certain parts of that ten thousand day war and namely the final outcome. Other similarities tend to be ignored in order to make weak cases against the NDP or for whatever reasons that aren't clear.

Malalai Joya says that the US-led NATO occupation has pushed Afghans from the frying pan into the fire. Her people hate the medieval Taliban, she says. She says that there have been ongoing talks between the Taliban, Gulbuddin  Hekmatyar, Hekmatyar's people in Karzai's government, the US-CIA, British MI6, and with the Saudis and Pakistani army intelligence mediating these backchannel talks. Ms Joya says, in so many words, that they are unproductive talks and will not result in anything positive for Afghans. I agree with this as well. There are three possible bad outcomes for Afghans at stake here:

1. Phony war continues and NATO stays for several more years, Afghans die(and no end in sight today)

2. NATO wins and Afghanistan becomes a permanent NATO base in the colder war to surround Russia and China(not likely and the warfiteers and US hawks know it)

3. The Taliban win and continue to represent strategic depth for the elite in Pakistan and controlled by Saudis(USA friendlies) and Pakistani ISI(extension of the American CIA) - Not likely and the Taliban know it.

The point is that:

A. North Atlantic Treaty Org has no business carrying on military operations in two countries in Central Asia. Those countries have formed their own military and security alliance with the SCO.

B. Expert observers have said this is an unwinnable war for any of the principals involved. Not without tearing the country apart from stern to stem as was allowed to happen from 1992 to 1996 when CIA-funded warlords fought a Darwinian battle for control of the country while NATO countries turned their backs on the carnage.

What is clearly needed to end Uncle Sam's 30 year-long involvement in Afghanistan are transparent,  UN-mediated peace talks resulting in clear goals and outlining steps for withdrawal of NATO troops there in Afghanistan and contributed from 25 or 30 countries. 

Afghanistan's sovereignty has been violated willy-nilly for over 30 years, and there are more countries involved in this conflict than meets the eye. It requires an international solution and not a NATO solution. 

But suggesting that the anti-war movement sit on our hands and hold our breaths until this total withdrawal happens,  and blaming the NDP for what is a decades-long proxy war involving and affecting countries surrounding Afghanistan,  is folly. The goal for any anti-war movement on the left should be first and foremost to press for the end of organized murder.  

Unionist

George Victor wrote:

It's your "all or nothing" approach to people,  U. No offense.

I take offence. I praise or damn or withhold judgment on people based on the stands and actions they take. That includes Dawn Black, Jack Layton, and you for that matter. There are babblers - right in this thread - who take precisely an "all or nothing" approach to people. You have never had a word of criticism in their direction. Why? Because their views happen to largely coincide with yours.

You want me to cut some slack to the President of the United States? Are you friggin' serious? I cut slack to the powerless and oppressed people of this world. I don't call workers names. I don't look down my nose at "inferior" Afghans who haven't reached our oh-so-superior ways (namely, living off the suffering of people here and around the world). They're the beneficiaries of my slack. Not wealthy, mighty, hypocritical, lying, Commanders-In-Chief of the most dangerous country in the world. I'll change my mind about him the minute he stops killing people. See - I don't ask for all that much.

Unionist

canuquetoo wrote:

... You preen and gloat ...

... without even an empty-headed thought ...

I'll try to ignore this trenchant analysis of yours.

Quote:
I am of the opinion that Afghans can determine their own destiny without help, if left to their own devices but the concept that "the Afghan people will win" if only the western 'invaders' leave, without any analysis of the other players' intentions  is ludicrous.

What is truly ludicrous is that after hundreds of posts under this title - "The Afghan people will win!" - you haven't stopped to ask what it means (and you certainly haven't figured it out on your own).

It does NOT mean "that the Afghan people will win if only the western 'invaders' leave".

It means that the Afghan people will drive the Western invaders screaming and bleeding out of their country in ignominious retreat.

Just to put it in terms that you cannot possibly miss.

Do you get it now? They are fighting the invaders. And they will win. They will chase them out. Count on it. They have always, always won in the past.

Now, once they have driven this sorry lot of invaders (which you unaccountably have called 'invaders') from their homeland, they may well fall prey to other enemies, civil war, nameless brutality, colossal catastrophe...

But they will do it without any more Afghan blood on our hands (and Canadian blood, for that matter).

Our duty is to get the hell out. Nothing less - and (at least for the time being) nothing more.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
They will chase them out. Count on it. They have always, always won in the past

The US has been meddling in Afghanistan for 30 years with no end in sight. And now they have soldiers from 25 or 30 countries with them waging phony war in not one but two countries in Central Asia and with largest US embassy in the world in Iraq  and still somewhere over 100, 000 US troops there as an indication of their imperialist intentions in that country.

So far your record for incorrectly predicting the outcome of this conflict and blaming the NDP for what is an ongoing phony international proxy "war on terror" in Afghanistan is unscathed. We should have a separate thread dedicated to just the body count, and another for serious discussion of the ongoing phony war on terror and what can be done to actively oppose it and even pressuring politicians in this country to use their international diplomatic channels to work toward an exit strategy for not one country but ALL NATO countries resulting in a cessation of phony proxy wars in Afghanistan period. 

George Victor

Just received this from my young friend who spent several years in Afghanistan, blew the whistle opn torturing of detainees, and whose friend, Rory Stewart (The Spaces in Between), led some Brits in Iraq for a bit (Black Watch), but came to see the error of his ways and took of restoring an old area of Kabul and supporting the regrowth of the ancient woodworking trades there.

In response to my saying I'd reviewed what parts of Hillier's memoirs I could stomach, and my question, what Rory Stewart is up to now, I learned:

"Rory Stewart still running his charity, but now teaching at Harvard
too. Haven't read the Hillier book, but several friends say it's not a
reliable. "
You would have to read The Places in Between to appreciate Stewart. I hope you do before you condemn him. He's real "people" U.
The writer will have his book published in the new year. And I'm sure he will not advise continuing with the present course in Afghanistan. And I hope that, like Rory Stewart, he will advise on useful intervention that leaves peole with real work, incomes, hope. You know, the historical union position.

Unionist

The kicking of the Amerikan ass will come as just as huge a shock as the kicking of the Soviet ass must have been.

George Victor

No doubt, U. If the faithful, young unemployed resist all attempts at kick-starting a medieval economy, and the medieval warlords and their medieval means of persuasion ( torture) prevail,  no doubt.

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
The kicking of the Amerikan ass will come as just as huge a shock as the kicking of the Soviet ass must have been.

Except that this time the:  US military, CIA, Saudis, China,  Pakistani extension of the CIA in the ISI, warlords and drug barons are not fighting the Soviets or the Afghan PDPA army. 

And the US and Saudi-funded civil war which broke out in 1992 is not quite happening today. Tens of thousands of proxy fighters from surrounding stani nationa and Iran have not poured in over the borders yet to protect their respective religious minorities living in Afghanistan.

American asses areby far  the most numerous foreign asses in Afghanistan today, but they are not nearly the only foreign asses meddling in that country today. This colder war manouvering in Central Asia could drag on until Armageddon. This proxy war in Central Asia has been happening on and off for 30 years.

I know you're going to spit pea soup and rotate, but the NDP, Tariq Ali and many others are correct in that there needs to be  international cooperation to end this three decades-long conflict in Afghanistan and now spreading into Pakistan, and with weapons and drug smuggling and violence affecting surrounding countries, and some of which are participants in this proxy war in one way or another. There needs to be an international agreement to ensure that Afghanistan's sovereignty is maintained.

And unless that happens, Afghanistan will remain a failed nation state for many more years to come. But this beating of drums for more proxy war is not a real solution.

 

Fidel

Webgear wrote:
Most the current warlords were educated by the Soviets.

Yes, but the Soviets essentially left Afghanistan's theocratic-feudal culture intact, from the Stalinist era through to the revolutionary period. There were women attending universities in kabul and former USSR in the 1960's and 70's. Afghan women wanted the same freedoms that women in surrounding Stani nations had gained for basic rights to education and to participate in society. Afghanistan's civil war was probably the first in history to begin as a women's rights movement. Not even the CIA blamed the Soviets for it happening.

 

George Victor

"All Afghans consider the Hazaras to be no better than slaves (currently about 10% of the population)."

 

See "The Places in Between" for an explanation of this very old situation.

remind remind's picture

what is the explanation george?

 

Not that I find the list particularily interesting as I could have made a similar list on Canada and the USA

Webgear

Here are some interesting tidbits:

The Pashtun clans in southern Afghanistan declared over two dozen jihads between 1940 and 1979, most where focused on the Kabul and the central government.

Kandahar Airfield was built by the Americansin 1950s.

Afghan military pilots were trained by Americans however flew Soviet aircraft in the 60's and 70's.

In 1919 the Soviets armed the Afghan National Army with 5000 rifles.

The British army destroyed in 1842 was mainly women and children.

Most the current warlords were educated by the Soviets.

There are at least one women warlord in currently in Afghanistan.

All Afghans consider the Hazaras to be no better than slaves (currently about 10% of the population).

George Victor

It stood out in the list as something that Rory Stewart commented on.  These people are a throwback to the descendants of Genghis Khan (as i recall) , who created much mayhem  thereabouts ,and their distinctive features reflect their ancestry.

Afghanistan is not a vertical mosaic or multicultural phenom of peace, order and good gov. But it did supply the original "warlord" (Mogul Emperor) whose diary Rory Stewart read as he followed his (1505) path through the mountains in winter - lon his way to his conquest of northwestern India.    

canuquetoo

remind wrote:

yep, the NDP is wayyyy off base, they should be trashing those soldiers, and their families, who died.....along with all WW, Korean, and Peace Keeping vets, what were they thinking expressing prayers, empathy and condolences....

The NDP isn't off base, they simply have to stop trying to be all things to all people and find the spine to generate policies that resonate with core Canadian values without caving in the moment the old white guys who have stolen control of our country start throwing shit.

Lets face it - the NDP is the only hope for Canadians to break the liplock on Uncle's ass.

Webgear

canuquetoo wrote:

Lets face it - the NDP is the only hope for Canadians to break the liplock on Uncle's ass.

 

Someone better tell Mr. Layton this because currently Jack's head is so far up Barack Obama's ass he might as well be the Vice President of the USA.

canuquetoo

Unionist wrote:

canuquetoo wrote:

... You preen and gloat ...

... without even an empty-headed thought ...

I'll try to ignore this trenchant analysis of yours.

Well, you're doing a fine job of ignoring by quoting it for all the folks who don't bother to wade through my blatherings.

I must admit that the tenacity with which you cling to the delusion that the more extreme you are, the more entitlement you engender to the moral high ground earns you some respect but the speed with which you defend your assumption of that acme, even against benign allies, earns you none.

Slumberjack

Webgear wrote:
 Someone better tell Mr. Layton this because currently Jack's head is so far up Barack Obama's ass he might as well be the Vice President of the USA.

It's the bandwagon approach to moral compass reading and direction finding.

remind remind's picture

oh yes webgear, most certainly you are correct, all the other leaders of the political parties, have ostracized Obama and are shunning him globally,  showing the world what a hyprocrite he is....and..

Layton is running around the world after Obama making a fool of himself, but he is in good company anyway

and we all know...

Harper agreed to go to Copenhagen long before Obama did....

Slumberjack

Fidel wrote:
.....there needs to be  international cooperation to end this three decades-long conflict in Afghanistan....

For instance, the sharing of airlift capacity to facilitate a hasty exit would be an initiative we could all unequivocally support.

Frmrsldr

remind wrote:

yep, the NDP is wayyyy off base, they should be trashing those soldiers, and their families, who died.....along with all WW, Korean, and Peace Keeping vets, what were they thinking expressing prayers, empathy and condolences....

I think they should ask, "Why?"

I think they should also emphasize that the Liberals and Conservatives sent/are sending our troops to fight and die in an unjust, illegal and immoral war they knew from the start we couldn't win.

I think they should suggest that this is a useless and wasteful war and that the Liberals and Conservatives bear the responsibility for it.

canuquetoo

Webgear wrote:

canuquetoo wrote:

Lets face it - the NDP is the only hope for Canadians to break the liplock on Uncle's ass.

 

Someone better tell Mr. Layton this because currently Jack's head is so far up Barack Obama's ass he might as well be the Vice President of the USA.

Hence the suggestion that they grow a spine and grind it out with the jowly old white guys. That will earn them respect with the voter. Right now, the NDP minions are just part of the Hill scene attempting to vet their gold-plated pensions before an election. Growing a spine will take intestinal fortitude but the result may well break the hold the old farts in fancy suits have on power in this nation.

The average Canadian may be apathetic, but not stupid.  Give them a reason to be angry with the pork chops in the fancy suits. Look at the bloated faces of the lads in fancy suits enjoying the fruits of others' labours and tell me they have the nation's interests at heart.

 

Webgear

Remind you are correct, there are a lot of others world leaders in the same place as Jack. Obama must have a very sore ass.

Frmrsldr, the NDP is willing to put soldiers in dangerous positions also, for causes we can not likely win.

Fidel

Frmrsldr wrote:

remind wrote:

yep, the NDP is wayyyy off base, they should be trashing those soldiers, and their families, who died.....along with all WW, Korean, and Peace Keeping vets, what were they thinking expressing prayers, empathy and condolences....

I think they should ask, "Why?"

I think they should also emphasize that the Liberals and Conservatives sent/are sending our troops to fight and die in an unjust, illegal and immoral war they knew from the start we couldn't win.

I think they should suggest that this is a useless and wasteful war and that the Liberals and Conservatives bear the responsibility for it.

My goodness, FrmrSldr, haven't our vicious toadies suffered enough with kid Khadr, Arar, reports of election rigging in Kabul ni 2004 and again today, and now a torture scandal ? Why can't the looney leftwing anti-war crowd be satisfied with their streetcorner protests limited to so many people on Tuesdays only and carrying signs suggesting that "War is mean and nasty" or "Out of Afghanistan now!" while the MSM ignores them? Next thing we know the NDP will be telling them how to orchestrate an outbreak of peace from within NATO instead of the feds acting like colonial administrators that they are in Ottawa.

Frmrsldr

Unionist wrote:
The kicking of the Amerikan ass will come as just as huge a shock as the kicking of the Soviet ass must have been.

It won't be like that. There won't be a battle or series of battles where the invaders will be decisively defeated. Afghanistan will be, as it has always been, an unwinable quagmire. The Afghans will outlast the invaders. In the past and in the near future, the foreign occupation of Afghanistan will end when either the American Empire crumbles, when the foreign invaders' governments can no longer financially afford the war and occupation and/or when the people of the foreign occupying countries have lost all patience with the war and are threatening civil rebellion.

Webgear

Fidel, when was the last large anti-war protest in Canada? Even in Edmonton the last one was only a few hundred people. The majority of people are sheep and are not affected Afghanistan. 60% of Canadians do not care about voting in Canada let alone what happens in Afghanistan.

 

 

 

Webgear

Frmrsldr wrote:

It won't be like that. There won't be a battle or series of battles where the invaders will be decisively defeated. Afghanistan will be, as it has always been, an unwinable quagmire. The Afghans will outlast the invaders. In the past and in the near future, the foreign occupation of Afghanistan will end when either the American Empire crumbles, when the foreign invaders' governments can no longer financially afford the war and occupation and/or when the people of the foreign occupying countries have lost all patience with the war and are threatening civil rebellion.

Likely true, however at this rate, we will be there for decades.

Frmrsldr

Webgear wrote:

All Afghans consider the Hazaras to be no better than slaves (currently about 10% of the population).

Given the history of Afghanistan, the Afghan mistrust and loathing of foreigners is an almost genetic trait of its culture. The Hazaras are the descendants of the invading Mongols and often have their Oriental features. They do not look "Afghan" to other Afghans and they are reminded of yet another group of foreign invaders and occupyers.

As to why Afghans have such strong feelings against Mongols or Mongoloid peoples (people with Mongol ethnic traces), read about the Mongol invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

If they are this brutal to fellow Afghans, imagine how they must feel toward us.

remind remind's picture

Frmrsldr wrote:
I think they should also emphasize that the Liberals and Conservatives sent/are sending our troops to fight and die in an unjust, illegal and immoral war they knew from the start we couldn't win.

I think they should suggest that this is a useless and wasteful war and that the Liberals and Conservatives bear the responsibility for it.

 

Nope.... they have never done that, none of that, they have been rah rah war cheerleaders all the way.... they have never stated that we need to get out, and Jack was never labelled Taliban Jack for suggesting such.....nope.... never.....

 

Webgear

Frmrsldr wrote:

If they are this brutal to fellow Afghans, imagine how they must feel toward us.

 

Because the word Afghanistan is an Western term. Afghans identify themselves to according to tribal and clan heritage.

 

To be political correct, we should not use the term Afghan or Afghanistan.

 

Frmrsldr

Webgear wrote:

Likely true, however at this rate, we will be there for decades.

I don't think in the sense that we will have units of conventional forces on the ground. I think if the war continues with Western involvement, it will revert to the U.S.A. Pentagon directed proxy war of 1978 - September 2001.

The Soviet Union left Afghanistan because its economy was being destroyed by the war and the nuclear and conventional arms race with the U.S.A.

The U.S.A.'s economy has been/is being destroyed for the same reasons: Its economy is driven by the arms industries, the U.S.A. is waging wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, probably is covertly involved in Yemen and who knows where else, then there is the bloated Pentagon budget, the NATO and other U.S. military overseas bases, is there anything I have forgotten?

remind remind's picture

funny, has Joya said that?  have heard/read her state "Afghanistan".....upon numerous occasions

Webgear

 

Fidel, even the military is not fighting this war. We are still at peace time strengths for all units, peace time rules still apply.

Frmrsldr

Webgear wrote:

To be political correct, we should not use the term Afghan or Afghanistan.

Absolutely. And to be morally and legally correct, we should not be engaging in regime change and trying to determine the future of these peoples, something prohibited by international laws as expressed by the Nuremberg Principles, the Geneva Conventions and the U.N. Charter.

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