[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/20/afghanistan-soldiers.html][colo... Canadian soldiers killed, eight wounded, in Kandahar roadside attacks[/u][/b][/color][/url]
Master Cpl. Scott Vernelli and Cpl. Tyler Crooks died when an improvised explosive device blew up near their patrol in the Zhari district, about 40 kilometres west of Kandahar. The incident happened about 6:45 a.m. local time, said Brig.-Gen. Jonathan Vance during a news conference in Kandahar.
Trooper Jack Bouthillier and Trooper Corey Joseph Hayes were killed when their vehicle struck a roadside bomb around 8:45 a.m. local time in the Shah Wali Kot district, a region about 20 km northwest of the city that's seeing an increase in Taliban activity.
Then, the genius in charge:
"Please do not think of these incidents as a failure on the part of any person or the mission itself," said [Brig.-Gen. Jonathan] Vance.
No worries. It looks more like a success.
I feel for the other soldiers who know they are there for naught and have to wait for Harper and Iggy's strategists to decide when it will be expedient to call it a day and let them come back home, hopefully in one piece.
What an inhuman waste of lives! And we are not even mentioning the Afghan people killed by Western invaders.
Flashback retro moment:
Zbigniew and [url=http://911review.org/brad.com/archives/Bin-Ladin_Tim-Osman.html][color=r... Osman(OBL)[/color][/url] discuss the string of Jihads that Zbigniew [url=http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm][b]never regrets[/b][/url]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/1z5p7ki.gif[/IMG]
"Your cause is right. God is on your side"
For comic relief, I'd like to repost the [url=http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/03/18/taleban-grab-share-of-reconst... news story[/color][/url] that Frmrsldr posted near the end of the previous thread:
Brigadier General Jonathon Shitferbrains sez:
You mean the resistance succeeded, dumbass.
If getting blowed up by a roadside bomb is the Canadian Forces idea of success, I'd hate to see what they consider failure.
I think that Brigadier should be given the General Sir Douglas Haig Som(m)e Success Medal.
That kinda puts the death toll in Afghanistan into a bit of perspective. After seven years, only 110ish dead. More long-haul truckers died in accidents in Canada during that same period.
I hope our friend Realigned is alright.
Frmrsldr, I've asked this many times. Webgear has tried to address the issue, but I'm dense and I don't get it.
Why are sophisticated armed forces seemingly incapable (no, let me rephrase that - totally helplessly incapable) of doing surveillance on roads where IEDs are planted, and/or detecting IEDs once they've been planted? Just waiting for the right machine to be invented? Or (as I suspect) do they actually have zero support among the locals?
Afghanistan is a large country. Just like in Vietnam, we have too few soldiers. Fighting in Afghanistan is like playing "whack a mole" at the county fair: We go where insurgent activity is the greatest. We fight them. They break away from the engagement. We claim we won the battle. Meanwhile, the insurgents start up their activity wherever we are not, often where we 'defeated' them previously. We go there. We fight them. We 'win'. Then we have to go back to where we were before because they have recaptured that area.
Mind you, when we leave a 'captured' area, we let the ANA and ANP occupy it. Just like in Vietnam, we are not fighting against a professional standing army, but an enitre people or culture, if you like.
If the ANA and ANP are from the area, they are more likely to join family members among the insurgents and more likely to fight against us strange foreigners. Remember, this is Afghanistan - their country we are fighting in, not Canada, our country. We will come and go. The Afghans will remain.
Just like in Vietnam, the Afghan people (as mentioned above) are positively motivated to support the insurgents and also support them because they are afraid as a result of intimidation.
The Afghans nearby are aware when insurgents plant IEDs. Villagers either help the insurgents or try to remain uninvolved but spread the word around their communities that the insurgents have been in the area and to watch out for IEDs.
This is why, when it came to the incident of the three children who were killed by the UXO, I felt it was likely a Canadian mortar rather than an IED, because it was more likely that the Afghans would be suspicious of IEDs, if the Taliban had been there.
Insurgents use as much plastic, wood, etc., when it comes to making IEDs, thus making them hard to detect.
When it comes to the economy, few people point to the elephant sitting next to us in the room. It's war that has destroyed our economies.
<>If we are going to further ruin our economies by buying expensive high tech equipment to aid us in detecting IEDs or insurgent activities at night, then Osama bin Laden (assuming it was him) succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in destroying us.
It's far cheaper to have soldiers fight this war, a war our government knows we cannot win. With 116 soldiers dead and counting, is it worth it? I don't think so. Who does? Harper does.
<>
Thanks, Frmrsldr. That's the first understandable answer I've had to that question.
Former Soldier, it seems that as it was with Viet Nam, the US-led coalition forces are crossing the border into a neighboring country to chase down insurgents. There is even a secret bombing campaign, although not on a scale that Cambodia was with saturating bombing by B52's. The similarities are peculiar to say the least.
Do you think the Pakistani army or ISI, or even the Russians might be supplying weapons to the Taliban and militant groups in those countries?
Do you think the US military and partner countries might actually be not all that interested in beating the Taliban so much as just being there and establishing a base from which to escalate attacks on an alternate target country in coming months?
M Spector posted a link to a google earth air photo in another thread depicting location of a drone air base somewhere in Pakistan. And the location is just a few tens of miles farther from the Iranian border than the other direction, to Afghanistan. Nevertheless, I think that the elites of the world might be considering a major war for resources as but one way to sidestep the current crisis of financial capitalism looming over the western world.
pssssss! Fidel! The global war for resources is on. It has been branded the generational war of, er ... on terror. The enemy is Islamists which is to say every brown person in the global south.
George Galloway, banned from speaking in Canada by those who send Canadians to die in a war that can't won.
Never succumbed? The UNHCR has for years reported that Afghanistan had the single largest refugee crisis in the world. About six million Afghans fled the country by 1990. Millions more fled when US-backed thugs turned weapons on each other as well as Afghans and proceeded to tear the country apart. And with each victory over the people, foreign-backed religious militants celebrated by raping and murdering Afghan women and children.
What does it take to recognize that millions of desperately poor people actually succumbed decades ago to foreign military occupations and foreign elites waging proxy wars in their homeland?
Afghanistan, like Viet Nam and Cambodia, Laos were etc, is the scene of an ongoing crime against humanity for the sake of colder war maneuvering on the other side of the world.
Fidel,
The Pakistani Army and ISI are arming and sympathizing with the Pashtun Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
The Pentagon is using the opium trade (like it did in Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia/Thailand/Burma) and Cocaine in Columbia to fund its wars and black operations.
Afghans are selling opium to make (some or a lot of) money and buy arms. Turkmen, Uzbek, Tajik, Kyrgyz, Kazak and Russian arms merchants sell weapons to Afghans. The weapons are either Russian or Chinese made, so China makes money on this as well. Opium/heroin makes a lot of money. Arms dealing makes more. The further south arms are sold (until it gets to Pakistan), the more money it makes. From Pakistan, international parties buy arms. Anyone is welcome to join this money making merry-go-round.
The largest U.S. base outside the U.S. is "Emerald City", Baghdad, Iraq. The second largest base is Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo. When you read about bases in Afghanistan, you will discover that they are being expanded, increased and strengthened.
This is supposed to offer more "protection" for the troops. Another interpretation is that these are signs that it is intended these bases are meant to last and be used (by the U.S. and NATO, Canada included) for a long time.
Iraq has a lot of oil. Kosovo has a lot of oil. The Caucasus region where Kosovo and Chechnya are located have a lot of oil. Remember the "colored revolutions" in Georgia, the Ukraine and those Central Asian countries mentioned above? These so - called "democratic revolutions" were funded by American multinationals like the (George) Soros Organization and were sponsored by the Pentagon, State Department and White House. The U.S. is putting great pressure on these countries (Georgia and the Ukraine) to join NATO - another tool of the Pentagon. In the case of the Central Asian countries, the U.S. wants (air) bases, with the Afghan war used as an excuse. The Central Asian countries have a lot of oil. Georgia and the Ukraine don't but, they are located in an area near where there is a lot of oil - Azerbaijan (which I didn't mention, for example). These countries either have Russian pipelines or will have pipelines running through them.
The driving force behind this is power: Economic and military/political. The U.S. sees Russia, China and India as its greatest threats. Having influence over and getting Georgia and the Ukraine to join NATO could turn the flow of oil and natural gas away from Russia and Europe and toward the U.S. As for the Central Asian countries, it turns the flow of oil away from Russia, China and India and toward the U.S. Having bases and influence in and on these countries isolates Russia and keeps tabs on and influences China and India.
The U.S. plays countries against each other: China vs India and vice versa and Pakistan vs India and vice versa.
Pakistan is paranoid of India. That is why Pakistan wants to have influence over Afghanistan and squeeze out any influence of India concerning Afghanistan.
The U.S. is fighting a war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Afghanistan borders Iran to the East. Iraq borders Iran to the West. Thus, the U.S. can bring political influence upon Iran. For the U.S. (and Israel) to attack Iran would be financially and militarily, the most stupid and self destructive thing they could do.
Go to http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/03/16/afghanistan-holds-mineral-tre...
to find yet another (real) reason why we are fighting in Afghanistan.
I think youre right.
Afghan officials in drug trade cut deals across enemy lines
And the RAWA article you pointed to: "In the field of minerals, Afghanistan is the richest country in the region"
They might have been better off if the country had few natural resources, like Iraq's curse with oil, and Africa's curse etc. Good post, FrmrSoldier.
Socialism or barbarism. And I think the world has been on one of these paths for far too long. Predatory capitalism could lead us to world war, or perhaps continuing wars to the point where what's left of the most fertile and life sustaining parts of the world become private property. I dont like the Taliban. I liken them to the thousands of Tibetan monks who wanted to live off the charity of peasants. And I think the barefoot people of Afghanistan yearn to be free.
What a condescending comment. I'm sorry their choice of footwear doesn't meet your standards.
They don't "yearn" for anything except to be left alone by foreign missionaries, whether armed with weapons or with ideologies.
"We should have pulled out in February 2009 . ."
-mother of soldier being treated for PTSD after Afghan combat, with second son on his way over.
a voice of reason and sense in the midst of machismo, justifications, confusion, insanity, death, and slaughter, over petrofuel routes through the lands of other peoples.
http://www.northumberlandtoday.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1485097
[and by the way, Frmsldr, Ukraine is widely understood by Ukrainians to be called Ukraine, not 'the' Ukraine. just fyi. as in, we don't call Turtle Island 'the' Turtle Island Republic of the US .
]
Україна, actually. And it's Frmrsldr, not Frmsldr.
Welcome, thanks!
Some CF liar just said on the radio that the "mission" in which 4 Canadians were killed and 8 wounded was a "success". I heard him say:
Someone should advise this brain-dead glorifier of war to google Pyrrhus.
It's always the few that do come to fruition, that detonate as planned, that brings out the lies about mission success and what not.
Sad and pathetic.
For the gross majority, life in Afghanistan is grinding poverty and despair.
I'm sorry the Taliban are thieving money from the locals, especially the aid money and weapons delivered to them surreptitiously by the west and Pakistan's ISI. Afghans know what's been happening there for years.
Taliban fundamentalism is an ideology. However, neither Pakistanis nor Afghans have accepted a purely ideologically driven fundamentalist society as is the case in Iran today post-US interventionism and meddling in that country over the course of a cold war.
So tell us, what do they yearn for in Afghanistan then, mr I refuse to tolerate Catholic school funding and part-time cheerleader for the Saudi and Pakistani ISI-trained and indoctrinated Taliban?
According to Afghan Malalai Joya, she and very many Afghans do not yearn for a return to Taliban rule, as difficult as that might be for you and Zbigniew, and hypermisogynists in the Taliban to imagine.
Zbigniew and Unionist, the unrepentant jihadists. I wonder if Brzezinski's grandchildren even went to Catholic school?
To "thanks",
History seldom allows us the opportunity to get things right twice, but when it comes to Afghanistan; it did.
The first time was 9/11. According to international law, an act of terror is a criminal act, not an act of war. The appropriate response would have been for the intelligence communities to find out who were responsible for 9/11, find out where they are and then attempt to arrest them and bring them to justice. To go to war against Afghanistan was an inappropriate and (just like the 9/11 attacks) criminal act.
<>The second time was after the battle of Tora Bora (late Novermber - early December 2001) when Afghans (the northern war lords, their armies and their allies) liberated Afghanistan in America's 'proxy' war. Former U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair went to Afghanistan and said, "For too long we have ignored Afghanistan. Afghanistan must not become a breeding ground for terrorism." We could have sent humanitarian organizations to Afghansitan and engaged in reconstruction and development and nothing but reconstruction and development. Had we done that, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. Instead, we 'blew it'. instead of sending humanitarian aid, we sent the NATO led ISAF and continued the war in Afghanistan.
"We should have pulled out in February 2009..."
No time was a good time to pull out: We should never have sent soldiers and waged war in Afghanistan in the first place.
"...justifications... over petrofuel routes through the lands of other peoples." This has always been the "real" reason for the Afghan war. Any other reason is just bullshit "spun" by the government, the military and the sold out mainstream media to "sell" the war to people who don't make the effort to find out the truth for themselves.
What is war?
War is killing, injuring and destroying. How does shooting, shelling and dropping bombs on Afghans - how does murdering and maiming Afghans "help" them? The next time Harper, or an Army officer or a war supporter tells you this - ask them that question.
Stephen Harper introduced a war resolution, passed by the House, that escalated Canada's military engagement in Afghanistan. He did this, not once, but TWICE! Originally, we were to disengage from Afghanistan in 2007. That was escalated to 2009 the first time and 2011 the second time.
"My own judgement... quite frankly is we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency." - Stephen Harper in a CNN interview, March 1, 2009.
If you, if we all, wish to spare your second son (and all remaining and future soldiers in the Ghan) from physical or emotional injury or death, then we must put pressure on Harper to introduce a peace resolution to the House immediately to bring our troops home now. He did it for two war resolutions. He can do it for a peace resolution. We can achieve peace now if enough of us put enough pressure on our government.
SUPPORT THE TROOPS/SUPPORT PEACE/BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!
Signs of desperation on the part of the invaders:
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/22/us-policy-afghanistan-taliba.... floats plan to tempt Taliban into peace process[/color][/url]
http://www.antiwar.com.porter/?articleid=14439
Looks like Gen. David Petraeus has made Gen. David McKiernan his 'fall guy' when it comes to Spec. Ops.
It is more and more difficult to distinguish the fewer and fewer differences between Canada and the U.S. each day:
We have Joint Task Force 2. The U.S. has [Combined] JOINT [Special Operations] TASK FORCE - [Afghanistan].
That's interesting. One might wonder [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Afghanistan#Ma... else could western imperialists possibly negotiate with?[/b][/url] They certainly wouldnt want to legitimize any political groups less trustworthy than the Taliban and mullahs, or far right whackos, like long-time CIA-ISI gladio friendly, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. And they certainly wouldnt want to negotiate with heads of any of those banned secular political parties much less negotiate with them.
[url=http://antifascist-calling.blogspot.com/2008/12/unconventional-warfare-i... Warfare in the 21st Century:[/b] U.S. Surrogates, Terrorists and Narcotraffickers[/color][/url] (Anti-Fascist calling blogspot, from 2008)
Is there some kind of limit to the amount of text per post, or something?
So according to Burghardt's antiFascist article of last year , who would represent the economic and political status quo in Afghanistan today? And failing them, what other group of rightwing religious whackos would be next in line? Is it comparable to English imperialists of history and Scottish nobles who controlled unruly clans in the north for the right price?
If the corrupt former mujahideen "freedom fighters", Northern Alliance commanders, and drug trafficking bureaucrats now in Karzai's government are playing the part of political Liberals there, would the Taliban be the equivalent of Afghanistan's Tories? Paleoconservatives? It sounds like the west is trying to setup a two-party plutocracy in mirroring our own rigged political arrangement here in the homeland.
agreed, Frmrsldr "We should never have sent soldiers and waged war in Afghanistan in the first place." and to bring the troops home now.
but for that paper to have printed even that one line, and for that mother to have expressed it, was an act of courage in a community along the Highway of Heroes, not 45 minutes distant from Trenton airbase, who have made it a well-publicized ritual to support the bereaved families by honouring death on the overpasses (rather than true Support of Life), with a Conservative former cop as MP who rants on continually about more money for war machines, and unfortunate community members who cannot find other sources of self-esteem.
i was thankful for that brief gleam of hope in this area which the mother, and the paper, afforded.
but yes, there is still a far way to go.
Yes, but then listen to the father:
It's so "Canadian", isn't it? There's a grain of truth - the Afghan people hate the Canadians, no doubt about that, otherwise no Canadian would be blown up by an IED. Everyone knows where they are except the geniuses of the CF.
And then, a little ingenuous racism and xenophobia and "White Man's Burden" - this ignorant Canadian father looking down his nose at "thousands of years" of Afghan civilization, viewing Afghans as less-than-humans who have never helped themselves.
It's interesting to observe the kind of people who produce cannon fodder as offspring. Our society has created them, and we need desperately to heal ourselves.
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/03/22/ramp-ceremony.html][color=red]B... Jonathan Vance talks some more, impressing everyone with his military brilliance and personal sensitivity[/color][/url]
Speaking about the long-term impact of the latest sweep, which killed 4 Canadians and wounded 8:
And reporting on how the war is going:
Yay!!!
Interesting comments on CTV's QP today - that this is an American war and that the Americans could care less about the Canadian presence there - our presence is very tiny compared to the Americans, and that the Americans probably want everyone else (NATO?) out so they can run the war the way they want to.
And at the end of the program another pundit reminded everyone that Obama wants to talk to 'moderate' Taliban with the aim of perhaps making a peace deal.
The comments were all over the place! And Iggy and Layton weighed in, too, Layton reminding everyone that he's called for talking to the Taliban early on.
[url=http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2008/03/03/malalai-joya-canada-should-ch... should change its policy on Afghanistan[/color][/url] 2008
Malalai Joya is an Afghan MP currently appealing her suspension from the country's parliament. She spoke to rabble.ca editor Derrick O'Keefe.
Besides Jack Layton, the British, and now Yanqui imperialists who propped up a Taliban proxy government in 1996, who else thinks they should be negotiating with and legitimizing the Taliban criminals in '09?
What happened to the previous plan to get the hell out of the stan, man?
Well, at last, Fidel, we somewhat agree.
Canada (or NATO for that matter) has no business negotiating with anyone in Afghanistan. Canada must not pick and choose which warlords will preside next over the "vietnamization" of the Crusade.
Canada must retreat, now, unconditionally. No negotiations.
So it appears that the invaders indicating they are ready to deal with the Taliban, and apparently are doing so now, is likely not an act of desperation at all. The Taliban are old hands by now at dealing with hawks and corporate raiders in the US. Taliban leaders have accepted invitations to Washington before and been given warm receptions there.
I predict that the Taliban will not negotiate and they are not doing so now. Any bets?
Why should the Taliban negotiate with the crusader armies or their corrupt proxies? They're gonna win eventually, so why bother?
The Crudaders have no legitimacy to negotiate. To believe that they do, is to accept the neocolonial narrative upon which the whole Afghan occupation rests.
Rocket Attacks Khandahar Airbase
On the same day that the latest four died, a civilian worker was killed and several others were injured by a rocket attack on the Khandahar air base. Apparently, incoming warning sirens are a frequent occurrence, causing thousands of personnel to routinely scramble for the bunkers. Pity there aren't any journalists kicking around there to paraphrase the questions attributed to Molotov, when he stood in another bunker.
Afghan clerics urge Saudi-led talks with Taliban
Long live king Abdullah!!
"It's so "Canadian", isn't it? There's a grain of truth - the Afghan people hate the Canadians, no doubt about that, otherwise no Canadian would be blown up by an IED. Everyone knows where they are except the geniuses of the CF.
And then, a little ingenuous racism and xenophobia and "White Man's Burden" - this ignorant Canadian father looking down his nose at "thousands of years" of Afghan civilization, viewing Afghans as less-than-humans who have never helped themselves.
It's interesting to observe the kind of people who produce cannon fodder as offspring. Our society has created them, and we need desperately to heal ourselves."
yes the rest of the article was abysmal. that's why the one line stood out, limited as even it was. i won't go into the sea of racism here, it's really depressing.
This talking to the Taliban business is a ruse. With thousands of American troops pouring in for battle, I think it is obvious that they want to find a group of compliant 'awakening' elements to bribe, so that they can pass them off to the western media as Taliban who have seen the light. They could then better sell the indiscriminate bombing and bloodletting in the villages as absolutely necessary to root out the 'few' remaining diehards that will not negotiate, unlike the more sensible camera props that we'll be shown.
Crusaders have been meddling in the Middle East and Central Asia for a long time. Saudi princes, the CIA have been influencing and controlling extremist groups in Afghanistan through Pakistan's army intelligence, the ISI for several decades now. In the process, not one country but two have been "Talibanized" since the 1980s. The Talibanization is incomplete insofar as neither country's citizens have accepted radicalization of their societies. Democratic choice on these types of national decisions are never encouraged, ie. Iran after the people overthrew the very brutal and corrupt US-backed Shah's regime. People everywhere simply want social democracy, but in that region of the world, western intel agencies from Pakistan to Virginia and Washington tend to end up empowering militant Islam as an alternative to democracy of, for, and run by the people themselves. Western imperialist's goals for thirdworld countries throughout the cold war was destabilization first and foremost, and ultimately to prevent democracy from taking root. Theyve dealt with the devil to achieve those goals on dozens of occasions, and we can identify that general pattern in Central Asia and Middle East since the 1950's.
One Soldier's Tale of How War Drove Him Crazy
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/22/us-afghan-plan-to-bypass-kar... The Guardian: [/url]
Wow, am I ever glad we are there fighting for democracy!
I highly doubt that.
I was being sarcastic.
Just wanted to make sure.
Anyone else heard that Canadian forces deployment calls were increasing, and more are to be sent over? I have heard from 4 different military persons and/or their families that this is the case.
I dont know. Maggie and Ronnie insisted that representatives of the government of "democratic" kampuchea maintain their seats at the UN after year zero in that country. The US and Britain even continued supporting Pol Pot in exile up to 1993. The Vietnamese were still ferreting out khmer rouge mercenaries from jungles along the border in relatively recent times. And like the CIA-SAS-ISI trained Islamic gladios, KR mercenaries were trained by US green berets and armed by the CIA, post-Mao China, Britain etc.
Not only can I picture the Taliban sitting down to talks with their former sponsor nation again, I can almost imagine the Taliban attending UN meetings in New York and around the world and UN membership supported by uncle Sam and friends. Anything's possible
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