[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/12/brown-afghanistan.html][color=r... comments by "coalition" leaders[/color][/url]
Gordon Brown on roadside bombs:
"There's a clear line, a chain of terror, that links what's happening in Afghanistan and Pakistan to the streets of Britain," he said.
Gordon Brown says someone is succeeding but carefully avoids saying who:
Asked if he was worried the combat operation in Helmand province could become Britain's Vietnam, Brown said: "The operation … is showing signs of success."
Barack Obama believes the insurgency is led by vampires:
"The mission in Afghanistan is one that the Europeans have as much if not more of a stake in than we do."
Brig-Gen Jonathan Vance thinks more Canadian dead and blown up means we're winning:
Mounting casualties and roadside bomb attacks are more a reflection of increased activity by the international coalition than a sign of a strengthening insurgency, Canada's top soldier in Afghanistan said in a weekend interview with The Canadian Press.
They're dying faster than we are (but no specifics on how many of them there are):
"Yes, there are times when we take killed or wounded in action, but it pales in comparison to the killed and wounded that the insurgency has taken when facing us," said Vance.
And while it may look as if we're losing, opinion polls don't lie:
He said that based on polls and informal feedback, the security situation in Kandahar province, where the Canadians are based, has improved since February 2008.
How 'bout, The Afghan people are further behind than ever after 30 years of western meddling in Central Asia - and war and warfiteering still reign merrily in Afghanistan ?
Since when was the Soviet Union in the west?
The Afghan people will win. Count on it.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8146605.stm][color=green][u]4 U.S. Marines killed[/u][/color][/url]
I knew it! Obama supports the insurgency!!!
Zbigniew and Osama before "blowback" Ya right
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/rabblerabble/1z5p7ki.gif[/IMG]
Guess which one of these old line party hawks is still there embedded in shadow government in the USsA after three decades worth of this same nonsense? It's a phony war.
No they are not winning anything. I think you do wish them well, but the truth is that they are not winning in a war that is rigged. The fix was in long ago against desperately poor people in a country that UN officials say is home to some of the most abused and downtrodden women and children in the world. The truth is that ordinary Afghans are taking a thorough shellacking from all sides in this phony war. There are no such things as basic human rights in yet another US client state in this colder war setup on the other side of the world where NATO has no business being. They have no business being in Afghanistan real or imagined period. USSR's gone, and this shit is still happening.
[url=http://www.rawa.org/rawa/2009/05/07/lets-rise-against-the-war-crimes-of-...'s rise against the war crimes of US and its fundamentalist lackeys![/url]
[url=http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/derrick/2009/07/afghanistan-war-debate-h... War debate heats up in the UK[/url]
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/14/taliban-kandahar-canada.html][c... hit Canadian model village[/color][/url]
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/07/14/afghanistan-helicopter-crash552... chopper crash kills 6[/color][/url]
Ouch!
There's some excellent commentary on the false reasoning that's used to justify the war in Afghanistan, here. When it boils down to it, it makes no sense whatsoever to collectively punish (read: terrorize) a country because of the actions of some people in that country.
It's not immediately clear who owns the helicopter, the US military says, but the ISAF spokesman seems sure enough to say it's a "private helicopter."
It was a "white transport helicopter" carrying only civilians, whose nationalities "aren't immediately known," the story says.
Some mystery, eh?
ETA: An Afghan child was reportedly killed on the ground when the helicopter crashed.
"A spokesman for Nato-led forces in the country said the helicopter had been carrying civilian contract workers."
- [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/14/helicopter-crash-afghanistan...
[url=http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Military+recruits+drawn+jobs+combat+po... recruits drawn to jobs, not combat, poll finds[/url] Ottawa Citizen
Flip burgers for tuition? Or join the army, earn $50 thousand after two or three years, and have post-secondary paid for by the taxpayers? They dont seem to want to rely on private enterprise when they want something doing right. They turn to socialism when it suits them.
Economic conscription. Gotta love it.
Are you trying to imply that the man pictured here with Zbigniew Brzezinski is Osama bin Laden? I guess you must think they all just look the same, because it's not.
Oh Lord, here we go.
Could I prevail on you, pretty please, not to get sucked in to this conspiracy stuff? We've tried to keep these threads relatively clear for news and events about the Afghan struggle against the invaders. Thanks.
Crashing bores of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your threads!
Yes, A_J, youve raised some concern about Osama bin Laden. OBL was an above average anti-communist. And CIA and Britis own a notorious reputation for aiding and abetting international terrorists, and even providing sanctuary for them while theyve been on the lam from international justice. And false flag terrorism, it is said, was a cold war era phenomenon but is no more. Or so they say. Youre your own person and a thinking man, I can tell.
Look, if you want to discuss the blood and gore aspect of this phony war only or just be babble's official body count ticker for the Stan, then why dont you wait for someone with the same interest to reply to your very one dimensional posts? It's easy peasy. But by all means you are under no obligation to smear any of me or Lesley Hughes or anyone you doesnt agree with you about this phony war or the false pretext for it happening. You dont even have to disrupt other people from having a thread discussion. Did anyone ever teach you any manners for Christ's sake?
Afghanistan, a desperately poor country before and after US meddling since 1979, did not attack your precious America or even the fucking Liberal Party of Bananada, okay? So why in hell are the Yanks there now and leading yet another illegal military occupation of a sovereign country? If you dont have the answers or are entirely uninterested as to the why? altogether, then just butt out.
Fidel, how about starting off by deleting that fraudulent "Osama" photo? Don't you think ludicrous crap like that weakens your conspiracy theories rather than strengthening them?
And I'd start a real thread on this phony war, but you continue to regenerate the same idiotic thread title over and over. Why dont you give us a general outline as to how exactly these desperately poor people will go about winning this phony war waged between the US military and their jihadi friends in phony opposition?
And why dont you tell us how wrong Afghan women of RAWA are about what's happening in their own country? Oh wait, their opinions of their own recent history and your rabid anticommunist rhetoric dont seem to mesh for some reason. And let's see now - youve tried to blackball myself and others for daring to discuss what is essentially recent history of the Afghan conflict from 1979 through today. Youre off Malalai Joya for Malalai having given a speech at the NDP convention. And now youve attempted to smear Leslie Hughes for her excellent adventure in, what was it, internet conspiracy theories started by five mainstream news agencies(actually the German BND, Russian intel as well as Mossad) around the world in 2002? You, Pete Kent, the Liberal Party of Bananada, and Zbigniew are on quite a roll yourselves imo, U.
[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html]Who is Osama bin Laden?[/url] This Canadian academic has done his homework on OBL and this ongoing phony war on terrorism. What do anonymous internet babblers have to say about that?
Fidel
What is the German BND?
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesnachrichtendienst]German BND[/url], formerly Gehlen Organization during the cold war era, which was essentially what was left of Himmler's SS and were paid by the democratic west to spy on our WW II allies, the Russians. And during the war they were Hitler's intel agency.
The BND's informants in East Germany were mostly Stasi double agents who were blackmailing Reinhard Gehlen and his SS into providing Stasi with intel about the West during cold war. It's said that this is part of the reason the US and Britis had never really penetrated the Soviet Union and were mostly unaware of the political changes happening in Moscow in the 1970s and 80's. The Brits always crowed about their cold war spy expertise against the Soviets, but they, too, were infiltrated by double-crossing communist sympathizers right there in England.
The Afghan people will destroy the invaders and send them screaming out of their country, as they have always done (go visit some British and Soviet military graveyards). They will also not appreciate visits from their phoney "friends" from abroad who lecture them on what kind of culture and government they should adopt to replace the "primitive" traditions they have established over the millennia.
You mean, my pointing out how the Afghan villagers humiliated the "Red" Army and helped contribute to the collapse of the Soviet Union? Sorry, I didn't realize that was a symptom of rabies. Was I mistaken - did the Soviets actually prevail? Goddamn history never was my favourite subject.
You're right, I've asked for you to be banned from all internet discussion boards. It's my main goal in life. You see, I'm terrified that you'll blow my cover and reveal my involvement in that Twin Tower [s]accident[/s] [s]mishap[/s] [s]attack[/s] oh damn, they're on to me...
Anyone who speaks to an NDP convention is morally bankrupt, a traitor to their people, and suffers from zits. Everyone knows that, and it's my freedom of religion to maintain that view here!
Yes. I hate Lesley Hughes. I fear Lesley Hughes. I abhor Lesley Hughes. Stephen Harper, Stéphane Dion, and Bernie Farber were right. She should be drummed out of the country, never mind just the Liberal Party. My only question, Fidel, is this: After all those threads I opened to defend her - before you even heard of her - [i]how did you see right through my phoney rhetoric???[/i] [b]Where did I slip up!!???[/b]
Would you please keep [b]QUIET[/b]? I'm on my weekly conference call with Zbig and the Doctor and Tricky Dicky and Iggy, and I can [b]barely hear well enough to unscramble the signal!!!!!!![/b]
Oh, by the way, to return to the topic, could you please stop embarrassing yourself further and [b]DELETE[/b] the pretend picture of Osama Bin Ladin? Thanks.
Thank you fidel.
On last night's CBC National they had a young soldier, who took video's of his time there, spewing propaganda about staying. It seems the push is on to change the hearts and mind's of Canadians, before we are supposed to leave.
"Oh why don't we think of the children, who have nothing"
Meanwhile of course nothing was said about, them having less than they had before we started destroying their country, so the drug cartels, oil gas and mining socio-paths could rape them and their country.
You are right about that push remind. Let's just hope that Obama is not able to convince Harper to go back on his word to leave in 2011. For some reason I have a feeling we will bow to the Americans...not sure why, just a hunch.
The difference between the British occupation and the Russian occupation is that during the British occupation, the Afghan people did liberate themselves. During and after the Russian occupation until 1996, the forces that largely freed Afghanistan of the Russians were the CIA, ISI, Iranian and Saudi trained, armed and financed radical Muslim mujahideen - among them the Taliban. After this current war started in 2001 until now, those Afghans who are doing the fighting and killing are largely either the latest incarnation of the mujahideen (Taliban included) or the U.S, U.K., Canadian, etc., backed Northern Alliance warlords, who are as bad or worse. As Malalai Joya puts it, 'the Afghan people are caught between the frying pan and the fire.'
Needless to say, OBL is not in Fidel's photo. But the overall point Fidel is making stands. Correct me if I am wrong, but the man beside Zbigniew is a Pakistani soldier. This photo suggests the CIA supported (as it did, in fact) the Zia regime and its suppression of the Pakistani people and the CIA's, ISI's and Pakistan government's involvement in the Soviet Afghan war.
Harper would go back on his word the minute Canadians poll rising approval.
They are now just busy manufacturing consent as they always do. Plus perhaps utilizing means to divide the progressive community too, so there will be no solidarity against their manufacturing of colonial support.
Thanks FrmrSldr. That recap of Afghan history is important in understanding where they are at today, and that Afghanistan did not attack the United States of America on 9/11/01. And neither did Iraq for that matter, but Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, two war criminals, continue to tell gatherings of rich people these same terrible lies.
Where did you slip up? You insinuated in the other thread that Lesley Hughes was participating in internet conspiracy theorizing when she wrote about a story that was only beginning to make rounds on the internet in 2002. That is a lie as I explained to you several times with no reply from you. In fact, the story was not just making rounds on the internet. The sources were international intelligence agencies and stories broke by no less than five mainstream news agencies in various countries. I'm sorry, U, but recent history and the truth are much bigger than any of you, Pete Kent, the Liberal Party of Bananada, or any other proxy members of the Can-Am House on unAmerican Activities Committee. Way bigger.
Oh well no kidding, Frmrsldr, sorry to be sarcastic, but the entire world knows that, and the U.S. [url=http://www.america.gov/st/webchat-english/2009/May/20090505134735atlahtn... admits[/color][/url] their shameless interference in the Soviet Afghan war.
Fidel's problem is that he thinks the U.S. defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan. He thinks the U.S. and Soviet Union were/are all-powerful, and the lowly peasants couldn't possibly defeat them. That's why he hates the thread title here. That's why he freaks out whenever someone says that the Vietnamese people defeated the U.S. in their war.
It's the same mindset that underlies 9/11 conspiracy theories. How could a handful of non-CIA-equipped amateurs bring a superpower to its knees? It must have been an inside job. Only the U.S. can attack itself.
That's also why he calls this a "phony war" - because there is no insurgency, you see. It's just the U.S. fighting against its own paid hirelings, the Taliban. It's all play-acting, to divert attention from... something or other. The notion that real live ordinary Afghan youth plant bombs and blow the Big Boys to smithereens is anathema to him. It's all phony, you know.
Pardon my skepticism. The Afghan people don't need to be paid off to fight the crusaders. The people of Vietnam didn't need any Chinese or Soviet troops to prevail. The U.S. and its allies can't possibly win. It's only a matter of time.
They need thier arms and supplies.
Beautiful. Hey U, why dont you point us to that other US government web page where they officially deny having anything to do with NATO's false flag terrorism in Europe while youre going. Because we all know the US doesnt do terrorism and especially the Cubans and Latin American targets of the notorious School of the Americas. In fact, theyre enjoying yet another US-sponsored military coup in the original banana republic as we speak.
Just wrap yourself in old Glory, U, and get it over with. Youve outed yourself again.
Except for the US and Chinese backed Khmer Rouge, the Vietnamese also didnt have to contend with US and Saudi and Pak sponsored mercenaries from over 40 different countries rolling in over the borders. Unionist says history is not a strong subject matter for him. But at the same time, he doesnt seem to care either.
Keep dreaming, Webgear, that the U.S. would have won if they weren't fighting with "one arm tied behind their back", as they whined in those days. You and Fidel share quite the scornful view of the capacity of oppressed people to liberate themselves. It's the same mindset which says, "Oh, let's send in some armies to bring them democracy and prosperity."
The Afghan people will win - the only question is, how many wasted lives it will take.
They also needed their contacts in the international drug cartels, both legal and non, in order to sell their opium to fund their arms purchases and pay offs. And that is almost as simplified as unionist's skeletal depiction.
The Afghan war that started in 1979 contributed to the demise of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was not the only country destroyed by this war that we are fighting today. Unquestionably, the legacy of this war is that it will destroy America as well.
The only question is will the Afghans liberate themselves and form their own government like Vietnam, or will either the Taliban, insurgents or some warlord(s) who have/are committing atrocities against the people win and form the next government like Cambodia?
I fear for the Afghan people.
Why is everybody so convinced that the man in the picture isn't OBL?
Good question M Spector, I was wondering about that too.
That's not the only question. The first question is when will the occupying troops leave or be defeated. Then comes your question, which can only be answered by the Afghan people.
But youre forgetting recent history. The truth is that the Yanks won every major confrontation with the VietNamese but lost the PR battle. It is true that the typical scenario was for US army units to go out on search and destroy ie. aggressive combat missions. And then they would find themselves surrounded and bogged down in jungle firefights. Call in the airstrikes, and one US chopper pilot then said they would fly out dead and wounded for weeks on end until they were, themselves, numb with grief over the blood spilled so senselessly. By the end, rabble's own veteran of that war , Jerry West said that US troops' will to continue the fight began to waver. They realized that they were lied to about their mission in VietNam.
And as former General McNamara said about the pretext for LBJ waging all out war on North VietNam being a total lie, ie. the alleged Gulf of Tonkin incident, so is the pretext for invading and occupying Afghanistan a terrible lie for the purpose of warfiteering. And I believe this time around there is a primary purpose to the colder war manouvering in Central Asia to create a permanent US military base there to defend what will ultimately be private property rights for multinational energy companies to construct and maintain gas and oil pipelines. And that is a motive for the mass murder and warfiteering which North American news journalists are still afraid and discouraged from addressing. They are headed off at the pass by American inquisitors and their Canadian counterparts before any of this truth can be revealed to the public at large. And it will be revealed years later as was the warfiteering agenda and illegal and immoral military occupation of VietNam by French colonials, Japanese, and then US military after WW II.
It's a given that generations of Afghans have already and will continue to pay dearly with their lives and future of that country for this latest illegal and immoral colder war manouvering in Central Asia.
Sounds like CF communiqués about all the insurgents they kill after every "campaign" - except the cowardly insurgents won't stand up and fight face to face like men.
Somehow, those insurgents just keep coming and coming and coming... must cost a fortune to hire all those actors... And they will win.
We've read how young Afghans are recruited to the Taliban. A year or so ago there were reports that the Taliban were paying significantly more on monthly rate to Taliban recruits than were the Afghan police and army at that point.
The VietNamese, otoh, were motivated by neither money nor rewards of an afterlife with Allah for giving their lives to suicide bombings. The NVA communicated with one another by a language of the jungle - a broken branch or fern leaves placed a certain way was code for where the Kalashnikovs were stashed. Which was sometimes a shallow camouflage of water by the river's edge and picked out of the mud weeks after being placed there. A broken twig pointed the safe path around deadly booby traps etc. One Canadian volunteer to the war said the heat of the jungle was oppressive. And the relentless attacks on their troops by women and children alone represented a psychological defeat for them. ~"The horror. The horror." - Brando as General Kurtz
Unionist, it maybe hard to believe however the Soviets and Chinese did supply the Vietnamese weapons, munitions and supplies.
They also provide instructors and guidance to the Vietnamese.
Could the Vietnamese win a fight and win against the US and her allies in the timeframe that they did without the help of Soviets and Chinese is doubtful at best.
I would like to know who you include in your term the "Afghan people"
I'd like to know why you are abetting the commission of war crimes.
The Afghan people are the ones killing your crusader army.
In my view and my own actions, I am trying to prevent war crimes.
In your opinion, Webgear, would you say that US soldiers today are the more capable killers than those who were drafted to serve in VietNam? Would today's soldiers be less likely to think twice and hesitate before pulling the trigger and filling someone full of holes than those who still suffer post-trauma disorders from VietNam and even WW II living today?
With that in mind, check out this web page:
http://dahrjamailiraq.com/tomgram-dahr-jamail-a-secret-history-of-dissen...
You're doing one hell of a job webgear.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8763367484184611493
NR
If you are implying that I have committed a crime please provide proof or retract your statement.
But you are/were in a military force which is an ally of the people who committed these atrocities. That is aiding and abetting, and you might as well be cindoning their evil actions. Do you think that documentary is fiction? And the people who see crimes being commiitted and do nothing, are they not just as guilty as the people that commit the crimes. Don't you dare come here and try to defend what is taking place in Afghanistan. The allies are no better than Al Capone's hoods, and I do not support our troops..
In 2001, there were no Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. In 2002, the first contingent of soldiers was sent. How did they get there? Did they send themselves? No, of course not. They were sent by the government. Since 2006, the Harper administration has put before the House not one, but two war resolutions escalating Canada's military engagement in Afghanistan.
The troops are like the workers of the world. They are exploited by the officer class, the arms industry and the state. Like most Canadians, they joined the military and ended up in Afghanistan and support the war because they believe the lies told to them about Afghanistan by the government, the military and the sold out mainstream media.
Evil triumphs when good people fail to act. But it is not easy for soldiers to actively and publicly oppose the war. I know. Until February of this year, I was a Canadian Army Reservist. As a Reservist, I had the luxury to choose (unlike in the Regular Forces) whether I went to Afghanistan or not. To aid my decision, I did some research to inform myself on Afghanistan. When I learned of all the lies that are circulating in our society, I was outraged. I publicly voiced my opposition to the war as a soldier. I was nearly Court Martialed for it. In the end, I was given a 'voluntold' honorable discharge. I was lucky. A Reg. Force soldier might not be. For actively and publicly opposing the war, a soldier faces arrest, a Court Martial and if convicted, time in a military prison and a dishonorable discharge after the sentence is served. A dishonorable discharge stays on one's record permanently and prevents one from getting a job with the federal government, any fed gov agency, federal Crown Corporation, etc.
What can we do to end the war? We can bring the maximum amount of pressure to bear on the government and convince as many of our friends to do the same and ecourage them to encourage their friends and so on, thereby multiplying our number.
We need to decouple or delink the idea that supporting the war and the government, whose policy is war, is identical to supporting the troops. My slogan is:
Support the Troops.
Support Peace.
Bring our Troops home Now!
A slim majority of Canadians oppose the country's participation in the war in Afghanistan, with the strongest opposition coming from Quebec, an EKOS poll suggests.
The poll, commissioned for the CBC and released Thursday, asked: "Do you support or oppose Canadian military participation in Afghanistan?"
Voters' intentions
'If a federal election were held tomorrow, which party would you vote for?'
Source: EKOS
Nationally, 54 per cent said they opposed it, while 34 per cent said they supported it, according to the poll. Twelve per cent were undecided.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/07/15/ekos-afghanistan-mission-suppo...
So, whose crimes are you trying to prevent? NATO's, who's very presence is an international crime, or the people of Afghanistan who defend their country from a war of aggression they did not initiate?
Pages