Air Force One Flyover in New York

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ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture
Air Force One Flyover in New York

I got the thread closed message when I tried to post. Hate that. Wink

Continued from here.


ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Cueball wrote:

I am totally sympathetic to the families and friends of those killed in the 9/11 event, as well as those who narrowly avoided death, and any others who experienced the event in a direct way. Where have I said I was not?

In fact I took issue with the construction of the crowd reaction as being somehow associated with some kind of mass traumatic experience of "New Yorkers" as group who jointly suffered through the event to the extent where they are expressing a kind of mass associative PTSD. When really, as for the event itself goes, most were watching from afar, video cameras out, or sitting at home watching it unfold on TV, in exactly the same manner that I did, very much like people gathering around and watching a very large and catastrophic car accident. The person who took this new footage is jogging laterally with his video camera glued to the object in the sky. There is this weird voyeuristic feeling of schadenfreund about this whole thing that leaves me cold, when in fact I know that there must be many persons experiencing very deep reactions to the event specifically because they directly experienced serious trauma and grave loss.

Now there is also the emotional claim being made on behalf of "New Yorkers" as a whole, against the suffering of those individuals who where truly changed by the event, as if their traumatic experience can truly be "shared" vicariously, I think this framing cheapens the seriousness of their trauma and their loss. I am sure that when those people are experiencing their reaction to their traumatic exeperience, they are not reflecting upon that in the context of their status as a "New Yorkers" but as that of wifes, husbands, mothers, fathers, sons daughters and friends.

New York probably doesn't enter into that equation much at all.

Many of these other "New Yorkers" who we are being told now were so traumatized by 9/11, merely set the tripod up on the balcony, switched the camera on, and then reached into the fridge for another beer.

I think I do get what you're saying here and do agree with some of your take on that part but originally when this thread started you that was not the slant. You were the first to post the You-tube video of people running in fear and then made somewhat dismissive comments about the nature of that fear. That actually seemed quite schadenfreundy to me. How did you know that the people in that video or other people weren't the wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, friends, sons and daughters of people that were directly traumatized or people that directly experienced it. I don't think you know any more then I do. The nature of the original post nor some of what came after it was oh look scared people how funny and stupid, they're all being manipulated by whatever.

So what if there were the types setting up the tripod and grabbing a beer? I'd speculate that there were also many people who saw the plane, went 'meh' and wondered what all the people around them were going panicky about as well. That doesn't somehow discount all of the other people who reacted in fear or take away from what they actual experienced in that panic. It wasn't just about numbers or somehow a comment about every single person in New York.

I also do have to comment that with what I think you're saying here in that people whether a part of the actual physical community or beyond can't experience real or 'shared' emotions or trauma in reaction to events unless they were directly affected by it (as in person). Empathy and understanding isn't necessairly regulated by physical location and space, neither does it necessarily take away or cheapen what the actual people involved felt. There is a difference in my mind of course of how that empathy is expressed but simply saying how one can emphazise or considering how events might make other people feel from their perspective isn't taking away from them.

I agree that comments on behalf of all "New Yorkers" are taking it to a different realm but I didn't see that happening here. People were responding more to those that were the ones that did have the reaction. Yes people used the phrase "New Yorkers" but if you read what was said it's clear to me that it was being used more as a generic descripter that's just easier to use instead of 'the people in New York that were scared'. I don't think anyone was actually thinking this applies to all and every single New Yorker.


More than you I think. How about that. I will lay claim to the moral high ground, since that seems to be your tack. In fact, I will make that claim based on the fact that I am willing to examine this tragedy not in the manner of someone who sends out hallmark cards to the friends and families of the bereaved, as a matter of form, but as someone who is actually willing to consider the loss in real terms, context, cause and effect.

And what exactly is more moral about that tact? I'd actually argue that it's not a matter of one or the other. I'd argue that both are inherently moral actions and put together are even better if we're trying to quantify what's a more moral way of reacting to something.


Cueball Cueball's picture

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

As for you question, nothing really is more moral about that tack, just thought the "shaming" thing had gone far enough. So, I thought I would call Ghislane out on it.




Yes there is a certain hilarity or for me at least a general OMG how key stone cops sort of stupid way about that aspect of the story.  That's not however what I was responding to and don't think others were as well. It was the peeing the pants laughter attitude that came across about the actual people reacting in fear.  Oh look scared people who are so dumb, they shouldn't be scared or as scared because {insert whatever reason},   Ha ha ha. Lol.   As much as I try I don't find that aspect funny.  I don't find people acting in fear because of possible past experiences or state manipulation of perception or whatever particularly funny.

When did the 'people who are so dumb' part get added?  Yes, people's reacting in fear to a harmless event is often found as humurous (admittadely this is far more grandeur than jumping out and yelling 'boo' or anything else I've seen on funniest videos).  And you're right...if you see a bunch of people with PTSD reacting in this manner, it would be cruel to laugh.  But thats not who's being laughed at here, unless you're willing to beleive that the majority of Manhattan and into New Jersey have a collective form of PTSD...I'm laughing at the same people who are currently wondering if threat level 5 swine flu is equivlent to run around arms flailing "Amber alert" or a more toned down Freak out at the sight of aircraft "Yellow alert". 

I agree with you that people reacting in fear because of past experiences isn't funny atleast.  But I disagree with the second half...people actively promoting a state of fear reacting like this is hilarious, perhaps not on the individual level but as a group.  The ones that would yell out 'America, Fuck Ya!' while they're killing evil terrorists, yet run in fear everytime the Team America jet buzzed the staue of liberty...yes, I laugh at them.

I'll try to find a link...but apparently the FAA is setting up 2 air zones.  "Zone Amber" is the outside zone and aircraft entering this area will be deemed offensive and likely be forced to apologize.  Aircraft entering zone red should expect mass panic and lawsuits.


I have it on good authority that that alleged "photo op" with the alledged POTUS 747, was actually a CIA plane, painted to look like Obama's ride.

Why over Manhattan? Because it was acting like a giant crop duster, spraying New Yorkers with the swine flu.

No other explanation makes sense.

And Joe Biden was flying.


Jingles: now that was funny!

Seriously though, Obomba has been hilarious. Between this 300,000$ photo op that (justifiably or not) caused panic in NYC and yesterday Biden telling the entire country to stay off Subways and planes.

I see the humour in the complete lack of foresight regarding this incident and the stupidity of the WH, but not in the humour in laughing at people who were scared. If the propaganda campaign is as good as everyone claims, then these people were quite rationally scared, weren't they? Why should we laugh at them?

Cueball Cueball's picture

What complete lack of foresight? All emergency personnel were warned in advance, even of the possibility that their might be some concern from the public.


The public was not informed.  The lack of foresight was not realizing that the public would panic.


...Biden telling the entire country to stay off Subways and planes.


But Subway is supposed to be so fresh.


Anyway, yesterday on my bike on the way home I saw a WestJet flight pass pretty low above me. I didn't blink, and found the soccer-mom minivans beside me more of a concern.



FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic[/url]
Furious Obama Apologizes: "It Will Never Happen Again"


strategia della tensione



Cueball Cueball's picture

Ghislaine wrote:

The public was not informed.  The lack of foresight was not realizing that the public would panic.

I believe they did make a point of telling government agencies that "the public" might panic.


Yes Cueball they did - but they did not inform the public - which is what would have avoided the panic. 

Cueball Cueball's picture

Right, so there was no "lack of foresight," as you put it, in fact this reaction was expected.