The SARS-CoV-2 Economy (physical distancing & good hygiene)

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iyraste1313

The only reason we have not been in total collapse til now, was the helicopter dropping of cash to the billionaires by the US Fed with the support of the Government.....when the repo market crashed last September, hundreds of billions were dumped daily to keep up this charade of a hedge fund market inflation....the numbers have been obvious for all too long!
You have to wonder why people actually think the system is sustainable? Huh?

I confess I turned on the CBC a day or so ago, what with my solar panels kicking in finally with some sun.....of course the bs Orwellians over there had the mantra down....the markets are suffering a temporary blip due to the corona virus....not to panic, everything will just be honkey dory....thankfully to the CBC, there are actually people who believe this nonsense! Again I say! boycott the bsers!

JKR

NorthReport wrote:

The economy is sound and the stock market reflects it. 

Sometimes people panic and oversell like they have done the last couple of days, but it is rebounding as expected.

I hope you're right but much of the world's economy can not afford to miss financial income for even one month. I don't think it would take that much of a downturn to force many businesses into bankruptcy and increase unemployment and private and public debt. Do you think the economy in China is currently sound or going to be sound for the next year or so? What happens if the situation in China is replicated in other parts of the world? Hopefully we'll dodge the bullet with Covid-19 but at this point that is not a certainty.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

NorthReport wrote:

The bears are having a good day as the stock market is continuing to drop now down over 1,000 pts on the DJIA

One of my friends on Facebook posted the following Donald Trump tweet from Febraury 2015:

Donald J. Trump wrote:
If the Dow Jones ever falls more than 1000 "points" in a Single Day the sitting president should be "loaded" into a very big cannon and Shot into the sun at TREMENDOUS SPEED! No excuses!

Oh the irony!

JKR

A day or so ago Trump said the coronavirus epidemic will be over by April.

NorthReport

That's great news!

Sean in Ottawa

JKR wrote:

A day or so ago Trump said the coronavirus epidemic will be over by April.

Unlikely. If it is weather sensitive it could be gone by the end of May. If not then it is here to stay.

NorthReport
JKR

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

JKR wrote:

A day or so ago Trump said the coronavirus epidemic will be over by April.

Unlikely. If it is weather sensitive it could be gone by the end of May. If not then it is here to stay.

It wouldn't be surprising if Trump is wrong about this considering the thousands of lies he's made since the start of his presidency. Trump probably needs to think the virus will magically disappear because he feels the Coronavirus is a threat to his re-election. With Trump it's always about him.

NorthReport

Actually according to Trump it's the Democrats who have caused the stock market to dip

JKR

According to Trump, Obama was born in Kenya.

NorthReport

The short sellers are making a fortune - there will be a lot of margin calls tonite!

Down 900 points now, dropping 100 points in the last 5 minutes!

 

kropotkin1951

I think I have seen this movie before. The market starts to drop because the whole economic system is corrupt and unsustainable and the rulers of the US start to lose money. Fear not I am sure the billionaires will be quantitatively eased in the near future. Nothing helps the economy more than pumping  billions of dollars  into the coffers of Wall Street

NDPP

Stock markets have largely ceased to accurately depict or reflect actual economic conditions. These indices are now institutionally gamed, rigged and subject to multiple manipulations in the interest of maximizing profits for the largest players.

NorthReport

As expected the DJIA is bouncing back up 730 points so far today, eh!

iyraste1313

Stocks tumbled and Treasuries surged in volatile trading on Tuesday as investors worried that an emergency rate cut by the Federal Reserve would not be enough to stem the economic damage of the coronavirus outbreak.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 785.9 points, a loss of 2.94 percent, erasing much of the gains from Monday’s rally in anticipation of a rate cut. The Nasdaq Composite fell by 2.99 percent. The S&P 500 fell 2.91 percent. The Russell 2000, composed of smaller publicly traded businesses, fell 2.13 percent.......

The function of the markets works totally on the actions of the central banks, to promote the psychology of support....that the banks will do whatever to support the markets......until they are shown to be bluffing, impotent....

when the investment class recognizes their impotence...it's game over...thew system in collapse, not just decline.....and our way of life as we know it in the west......is over...this will be our time to offer the alternatives of bioregionalism, community autonomy and  socialism...

my original forecasts for decline, so many yerars ago, did not contemplate the degree to which the central banks would jeapordize everything to maintain the system's debt bubbles, whether by design or personal self interest...

sustaining the system as they have, will make the 29 depression, the 07/09 financial collapse, and especially the near misses in 2012 and december 2018 look like a picnic in comparison...

too bad so few of the so called progressive movements took heed...now we will have so little resources to work with.....

iyraste1313

With the energy sector under pressure, U.S. high-yield Credit default swap prices surged 73 bps this week. After trading near multi-year lows at 280 bps on February 12th, high-yield CDS closed today at 443 bps – the high since (Powell U-turn) January 4th, 2019. Investment-grade CDS jumped 17 bps this week to a 14-month high 83 bps. The big financial institutions saw their CDS prices surge. Goldman Sachs CDS jumped 20 this week to 91 bps (14-month high). JPMorgan CDS rose seven to 60 bps (14-month high). Financial conditions are tightening dramatically.

The torrential rain has begun, and all those that have been making such easy money selling flood insurance have begun to panic. And I don’t think the prospect for zero rates and massive QE is about to instill calm and confidence. Indeed, the entire notion of open-ended QE and fiscal deficits creates acute market uncertainty. How does this melt-up in Treasury prices impact “carry trade” speculation in corporate Credit? Could dollar prospects (and currency market stability) be murkier in such a policy backdrop? How does such uncertainty play for global leveraged speculation? It is difficult to envisage a scenario where myriad global risks (i.e. coronavirus, financial, economic, policy, geopolitical) don’t incite a momentous de-risking/deleveraging dynamic. The odds of the dreadful global “seizing up” scenario are rising. The Modern-Day Bank Run. .......

......I did at least try to warm people...mostly just to be ridiculed...to provoke some serious discussion, analysis and political solution...now the opportunity to act is closing quickly to paralysis......

NDPP

Circuit Breakers Shut Down Stock Markets As Oil Panic Hits

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/markets-stocks-oil-1.5490697

"North American stock markets were halted shortly after opening on Monday morning as circuit breakers designed to slow down panic selling kicked in within minutes of opening..."

JKR

Maybe the title of this thread should be changed?

NDPP

No, leave it. It's babble perfect.

Sean in Ottawa

In real time. Trump spoke tonight. 

The White House announced Trump would speak at 8:30 and right away the futures market rose and did so for a 1/2 hour.

At 9:00 Trump started speaking. Then overnight markets went into free fall.

If Trump wants to help the stock market he should go on TV and announce a three month golf vacation and that he would leave the country in the hands of someone competent (not Pence).

BTW the US screwed the pooch so badly that even the Canadian dollar went up against them despite the announcement of terrible news for Canada: US mayhem in response to CV; falling oil market; screwed US economy. 

bekayne

Image

Pondering

NDPP wrote:

Stock markets have largely ceased to accurately depict or reflect actual economic conditions. These indices are now institutionally gamed, rigged and subject to multiple manipulations in the interest of maximizing profits for the largest players.

I agree with the above and this will be the test. If anything can destroy the financial system this is it. I don't think it will happen. The wealthy will ensure enough work is happening to maintain their wealth within our current monetary system. Workers will be even more desperate to make a buck opening the door to another Great Depression which will be addressed the same way the first was but with a green twist. 

NorthReport

Meanwhile back in the real world, the Canadian dollar is taking a real shit-kicking, already down 5 cents against the US dollar, and with what is happening to the price of oil, it could get a lot worse.

NorthReport

Chinese data marks ‘sharpest fall in almost 50 years’ as coronavirus wreaks economic havoc

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-chinese-data-marks-sharpest-fall-in-almost-50-years-as-coronavirus/

NorthReport

Realtors: Housing Market Crash Will Last Long After Coronavirus Is Gone

Coronavirus has already crashed the stock market. Now it's creating a perfect storm for another housing market crash like 2007-2008.

https://www.ccn.com/realtors-housing-market-crash-will-last-long-after-coronavirus-is-gone/

NorthReport

Before the government issues 1 cent in bailout money to corporations executives and all management need to take massive, and I mean massive cuts, in their wages and perks, or are the little people going to get screwed again!

Anyway why are poor Canadians supposed to bail out the rich Canadians. If Air Canada can't make a go of it, nationalize them.

World’s top airlines, including Air Canada, call for emergency aid to offset coronavirus impact

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-worlds-top-airlines-including-air-canada-call-for-emergency-aid-to/

JKR

There's talk in the U.S. that the U.S. federal government could immediately send US$1,000 to every adult and US$500 to every child every month until the Covid-19 crisis is over. I think that would be a great idea that we could also do in Canada.

NorthReport

So which major company will be the first to go belly up due to COVID-19?

NorthReport

Uninvestible is the term to describe the current stock market

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Yanis Varoufakis discusses the economic impact of the covid19 pandemic. (18 min.)

NorthReport

The cost of all our imported goods is going to skyrocket as the Canadian dollar is really tanking and appears to be down 10 cents against the US dollar within a very short period of time

NorthReport

What a golden opportunity for Canada to nationalize a lot of industries with our money, but unfortunately that's not going to happen as Trudeau will be bailing out the business community, the one percenters, and the rest of us will be getting nickels and dimes. 

 

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

The cost of all our imported goods is going to skyrocket as the Canadian dollar is really tanking and appears to be down 10 cents against the US dollar within a very short period of time

It looks like anout half of that. It was 75 cents in November. But it is not the end of the world to have it drop now.

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

What a golden opportunity for Canada to nationalize a lot of industries with our money, but unfortunately that's not going to happen as Trudeau will be bailing out the business community, the one percenters, and the rest of us will be getting nickels and dimes. 

 

Apparently they are putting 25 billion to help people -- this does not inlcude corporate bailouts. It seems that the govenment may place a priority on stoping the public from catastrophe. Clearly this is what they need to do. I am not sure there will be the room to spend on buying out industries. However, I have always maintained that the government should never give money to business without getting common shares capitalized at fair proportional value. this allows government to help companies and then take profit once they recover. 

NorthReport

Government set to announce $25B aid package to help Canadians through COVID-19 crisis

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-coronavirus-financial-supports-1.5500045

Douglas Fir Premier

NorthReport wrote:

Government set to announce $25B aid package to help Canadians through COVID-19 crisis

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-coronavirus-financial-supports-1.5500045

I wonder who will and won't be eligible. Administering it through E.I. and the Canada Child Benefits still leaves out a lot of people. Of course, for a government that has a ministry of "middle class prosperity", it won't be surprising if the relief money is meant to trickle down only so far.

Pondering

Time for basic minimum income. 

JKR

They also said that they will use the GST Tax Credit system. Through the GST tax credit system I think they should immediately send out approximately  $2000 for every adult and $1000 for every child. They should send out money every month until this crisis is over. They should also declare a national state of emergency.

kropotkin1951

I find it fascinating that the amount of money people are suggesting that needs to be sent to people is more than the welfare rate in most provinces and in places like BC, that have suffered for decades under neo-liberalism they are more than a person with disabilities, who is already unable to work, receives. Strange that when able bodied Canadians have their income at risk the dialogue changes. In BC we had a NDP and Green government give paltry increases to GAIN after public hearings, to show they cared.

This virus is showing that as a society we do care for each other. I for one am heartened to have reaffirmation that mutual aid is a Canadian trait. It is also showing us that we need to rethink how we support the most vulnerable in our society.

Douglas Fir Premier

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I find it fascinating that the amount of money people are suggesting that needs to be sent to people is more than the welfare rate in most provinces and in places like BC, that have suffered for decades under neo-liberalism they are more than a person with disabilities, who is already unable to work, receives. Strange that when able bodied Canadians have their income at risk the dialogue changes.

Agreed. As I posted in another thread, we need to take note of how much money our governments is tacitly admitting people need to live on in 2020. That should become the new benchmark for social assistance rates across the country.

NorthReport

Cdn dollar down again today now worth 69 cents US.

Aristotleded24

Why are the stock markets still trading amid this pandemic? Trading should be halted indefinitely until this thing gets sorted out.

kropotkin1951

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Why are the stock markets still trading amid this pandemic? Trading should be halted indefinitely until this thing gets sorted out.

How could anyone profit off of it if they did that? Stock prices dropping are only a blip on the oligarchy's portfolio. The little fish in that piranha filled cesspool just have to fend as best they can.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Freezing the trading would kill short trading profits for some.

JKR

I think almost all stock market trading is done over computers now and can be done remotely.

NorthReport

Within the past couple of months the value of one US dollar against the Cdn dollar has gone from 1.33 Cdn to now 1.45 Cdn. 

NorthReport

Gas spotted selling for less than $1 a litre in Vancouver the lowest price in years. The combination of the COVID-19 and crash in oil prices is going to be an economic disaster for Alberta. 

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

Gas spotted selling for less than $1 a litre in Vancouver the lowest price in years. The combination of the COVID-19 and crash in oil prices is going to be an economic disaster for Alberta. 

It is around 70 cents in Ottawa after being 1.00 to 1.10 for some time

kropotkin1951

On the coast the Calgary oil barons have been charging between $1.35 and $1.55 lately but it is now down to $1.10 or so. I guess in the grand scheme of things as we all try to reduce our oil and gas use the Saudi's and Russians with the cleanest and easiest to refine oil deposits stand to be able to supply us during the global transition to other energy sources. The cost of a barrel of oil from tar sands gunk is just too high to be competitive. Let the Invisible Hand deal a fatal blow to this disgusting and unneeded enterprise. If we have tax room to help businesses lets not start with the ... (oops to late)

NorthReport

What Ottawa’s Pandemic Aid Package Means for You

Improved EI, cash for low-income families and vulnerable, help for small business in package.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/03/19/Ottawa-COVID-19-Pandemic-Aid-Package-Business-EI-Low-Income/

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