Brexit

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jjuares

iyraste1313 wrote:

I am sure the bankers will be well looked after...

...this smacks of total complaceny and faith in a collapsing system....what with the USA Treasury nearing 20 trillion in debt?

With the global speculative community more than doubling its debt since 2008, and with a recession world wide with trillions of corporate junk bonds? 
No! such compacency is totally unwarranted....I´ve been watching the collapsing banking system for some time now...this latest is just the latest shock to a desperately panicky situation....banking leveraging is out of control...meaning serious cost saving and deflationary actions in the works...

Have people not been following the increasing bankster layoffs?

The banks are in big trouble....bail ins are in the cards...the final catalyst to mass bank runs

No! This time the system will run its natural course...chaos awaits us! 

Better be prepared! Politically of course!


Well, what I am saying of course is that the government will look after the interests of the bankers before anyone else. The rest of us? We are on our own.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

sherpa-finn wrote:

Josh wrote: Corbyn isn't destroying the Labour Party, the PLP is.  And if you really want to destroy the Labour party, succeede in overthrowing Corbyn, and you'll see his supporters go to the Greens or form a new party.

Meh. Any leader that loses the confidence of 75% of his caucus is toast, and deservedly so. If not today, then soon enough in the future.

That's why I said above that politics, at least in the Parliamentary tradition, is very much about the art of the possible, the art of compromise, negotiaton and leadership. Clearly, none of these are Corbyn's strengths. Its not surprising that he never got into Cabinet or even the Shadow Cabinet, when more politically adept lefties did (viz. Tony Benn, Michael Foot, etc).

Corbyn is clearly a man of strong and progressive principles. But he is not a lone wolf independent like Bernie Sanders has been over the past 40 years. No, Corbyn has been a member of the Labour Party which is (as most major parties are these days) a big tent gathering of often diverse interests and perspectives. The role of the leader is to hold it all together while steering the ship forward. Corbyn has shown his inability to do either. 

He should now graciously acknowledge his shortcomings as leader and step down. Alternatively, Corbyn can stand and fight "on principle". Though the principle at this sad juncture is starting to look a lot more like vanity than vision. 

I agree with Josh. These MPs have all been against Corbyn from the start, and have been looking for any excuse to get rid of him since he won the leadership by attracting thousands of new members to the party. Corbyn should ensure that each of these neo-liberal patsies faces a fight for his or her riding nomination against someone more progressive and less careerist.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

pondering and iyraste

..in all my days as an activist i have never seen anything like where we are at today..globally. we are making it up as we go along. we are in the moment. like what is going on in france..check out the nuit debout thread. then there’s spain and the action there is with the municipalities. like madrid and barcelona. podemos is playing a part at that level but it’s all about alliances and opening up space for community involvement. it in these places where the decisions are being made on what our future will look like. and in the here and now not some time down the road when the right conditions are met. we have our own processes here in canada and here’s a link to scotland and those alliances

 After Brexit: RISE ready to support new drive for independence

eta:

..just wanted to add that catalonia, spain has a wicked agenda. i'll try and dig up the link i posted a while back.

..sorry can't find the post and i don't do well searching babble. not user friendly.

NorthReport

Why Brexit Is Tearing British Politics Apart

An extremely detailed guide to the U.K.’s total breakdown.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2016/06/labou...

NorthReport

What a farce!

The Brits are quickly becoming the laughing stocks of the planet.

Cameron tells EU leaders they must offer UK more control over immigration

PM warned Brussels summit that free movement was at heart of Britain’s decision to reject European Union

Senior EU diplomats are also perplexed about how the prime minister managed to turn what they saw as a very generous deal – negotiated in February – into a catastrophic defeat that has plunged Britain into crisis. EU insiders thought the UK had got an exceptional offer, and were left bitter and disappointed when Cameron didn’t use it in the referendum campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/28/cameron-eu-leaders-uk-cont...

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Stand With Jeremy Corbyn

British politics is in a state of chaos after Thursday’s Brexit vote. Prime Minister David Cameron has resigned, the economy is sliding towards recession, and it is fast becoming clear that there is no plan for exiting the European Union.

quote:

4. A coup will split the party.

You wouldn’t believe it from reading the mainstream press but Jeremy Corbyn is still a hugely popular figure in the Labour Party.

Not, of course, in the Parliamentary Labour Party, where Corbyn barely found enough MPs to nominate him for a leadership election he won by a 40-point margin in September.

But among the party’s members, who ultimately elect the leader, his support is strong.

A poll last month placed him top of the pile in a putative leadership election by a huge margin with 43 percent support. Andy Burnham, who is backing Corbyn and says he won’t run, is closest to him on 10 percent and the only other in double digits.

The plotters make for a pathetic lot: Hilary Benn can’t even muster 5 percent, Margaret Hodge receives close to 0 percent.

This is not isolated data, either. During the referendum campaign the Fabian Society, who could not be described as fans of Corbyn, released a poll showing him to be by far the most popular politician in the party.

Corbyn enjoys an approval rating of +17 percent. The leader of the Labour’s Remain campaign, MP Alan Johnson, another plotter against the party leader, is at -10 percent.

NorthReport

And soon the question will be: Who cares?

Brexit: Who governs Britain? This is the UK's new 10-party system

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-who-governs-britain...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Brexit: Who governs Britain? This is the UK's new 10-party system

Somewhat ironic.  By leaving the EU, their Parliament becomes twice as European.

"After forging a coalition with UKIP leavers and uncommitted Greens, our informal alliance with unaffiliated leavers and two MPs from Wales puts our party in an excellent position to form an interim government..."

NorthReport

And the sun slowly, and maybe not quite so slowly, sinks on the British Empire. And the sooner Canada disaffiliates themselves from that xenophobic mess of a society the better.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

So we're pretty confident that fewer than 52% of Canadians exhibit any xenophobia?

Phew.

Fuck those jackbooted skinhead Nazi fuckers.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

So we're pretty confident that fewer than 52% of Canadians exhibit any xenophobia?

Phew.

Fuck those jackbooted skinhead Nazi fuckers.

Well, there does seem to be some empirical evidence that Canadians are less xenophobic than others. Excerpt:

Zack Beauchamp wrote:
"The only real outlier [to the nativist trend] is Canada," Cas Mudde, a professor at the University of Georgia who studies nativism and far-right politics in Europe, tells me. He continues:

[Trudeau] has handled, so far, the Syrian refugee crisis incredibly well, having taken in 25,000 Syrian refugees against the majority will. Initially, he wasn't supported by the majority — but when they finally arrived, a majority of Canadians did support it. That's one of the few encouraging lessons that we have seen over the last several years: that if you have a positive campaign, which is supported by a large portion of the media, that you can actually swing public opinion in a positive direction.

Why? It's because Canada is genuinely different from other Western countries in terms of its attitude toward immigrants. It's far more welcoming than basically everywhere else.

"Compared to the citizens of other developed immigrant-receiving countries, Canadians are by far the most open to and optimistic about immigration," Irene Bloemraad, a sociologist at UC Berkeley and its chair of Canadian studies, wrote in a 2012 study published by the Migration Policy Institute.

"In one comparative poll, only 27 percent of those surveyed in Canada agreed that immigration represented more of a problem than an opportunity. In the country that came closest to Canadian opinion, France, the perception of immigration as a problem was significantly higher, at 42 percent."

Why? According to Bloemraad, the Canadian government has spent decades attempting to foster tolerance and acceptance as core national values, through policies aimed at integrating immigrants and minority groups without stripping them of their group identity.

quizzical

NorthReport wrote:
And the sun slowly, and maybe not quite so slowly, sinks on the British Empire. And the sooner Canada disaffiliates themselves from that xenophobic mess of a society the better.

 the sun set on the British empire long ago. dramatic much?

and what affliate ourselves with the xenophobic mess to the south of us, you know our largest trading partner?

or how about more affliation with the Saudis while we're there?

or how about more with Communist China or fascist and xenophobic Japan?

 

 

iyraste1313

Corbyn enjoys an approval rating of +17 percent...

one can only hope that the purification of Labour will radicalize the Party, recognizing the power of the antiglobalization BREXIT vote, which people feel with the loss of their jobs, closing of factories, asset hyperinflation depriving them of housing and soon the escalating hyperinflation of food prices....this is the root problem, which a left program must address with a transitionl program to national (regional?) self reliance and deprivatization of the financial sector!

How such movements may develop there or here is of course an intriguing question, and I suggest historically may usually come from a splintering and radicalization process, but perhaps also from a total disintegration and discreditation of those same existing political organizations..

so given the greens and NDP here....splintering and radicalization or discrediting, forcing the minority concerned activists to look elsewhere.

This is a vital question! Where will the genuine antiglobalization movement come from? 

NorthReport

Think I will take a pass on being allied with anything this individual wants.

Nigel Farage says Donald Trump would be 'better for Britain' than Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/nigel-farage-says-donald-trum...

NDPP

The Neoliberal Prison: Brexit Hysteria and the Liberal Mind  -  by Jonathan Cook

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/28/the-neoliberal-prison-brexit-hyst...

"...Liberal pundits sensitively agonise over, but increasingly end up backing, policies designed to benefit the banks and arms manufacturers, and ones that wreak havoc domestically and abroad. They are the 'useful idiots' of modern western societies.

Guardian columnist Zoe Williams, I think, isolates this liberal pathology in all its sordid glory..."

 

The  End of the Atlantic Project: Slamming the Brakes on the Neoliberal Order  -   by Omar Kassem

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/28/the-end-of-the-atlantic-project-s...

"Britain isn't leaving the EU any time soon as confusion grips parliament. Obama is bound to be on the phone for this and other reasons. Britain is formally the US fifth column in Europe..."

NDPP

EU Leaders Call For Rapid British Exit and European Military Buildup

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/06/28/euro-j28.html

"...Stunned by Brexit, the EU is trying to integrate its remaining 27 member states on the basis of a further shift to the right, including increased austerity  and a militarist foreign policy. This sets the stage not only for an escalation of attacks on the working class, but also for explosive international conflicts, including with Washington..."

quizzical

NDPP wrote:

The Neoliberal Prison: Brexit Hysteria and the Liberal Mind  -  by Jonathan Cook

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/28/the-neoliberal-prison-brexit-hyst...

"...Liberal pundits sensitively agonise over, but increasingly end up backing, policies designed to benefit the banks and arms manufacturers, and ones that wreak havoc domestically and abroad. They are the 'useful idiots' of modern western societies.

Guardian columnist Zoe Williams, I think, isolates this liberal pathology in all its sordid glory..."

not even useful

sherpa-finn

I haven't agreed with Gordon Brown on much, but I think he nailed it yesterday on Jeremy Corbyn and the current situation in the Labour Party. (With obvious parallels to the NDP / LEAP process, IMHO.): 

"The real issue comes down to whether we decide we are a party of power [or] a party of protest. And that means a party of power with principles that we wish to implement in practice.

"Either the Labour Party will become an anti-globalisation protest party, or it's going to become a party that is able to tell people how we can best manage."

He added: "I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is going to stay. I think he is going to go, but I think the issue is how the Labour Party becomes electable. That is the only task for a political party: whether it can rise to the challenge of the times and deal with the real problems we face."

josh

Some MPs speculated that after the EU referendum, enthusiasm amongst the party grassroots had similarly soured.There's some evidence that this hope is wishful thinking. Newsnight has spoken to more than 50 Constituency Labour Party chairs and secretaries who endorsed Corbyn last year. Of those, 45 continue to offer their support and believe that their constituencies will again nominate the leader in the now inevitable leadership contest.

 

Many we spoke to were nothing short of incensed at the antics of the party's MPs.

Patrick Smith, chair of Hull North said: "If they don't listen to the membership then they should just leave."

The chairman of Hartlepool CLP echoed that, saying: "The MPs seem more interested in the interests of the PLP rather than the membership."

Another went further still: "It's an absolute outrage. You'd think these characters were sleeper agents for the Tories. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were working for Lynton Crosby." 

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-36570120 

cco

Gordon Brown wrote:

"I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is going to stay. I think he is going to go, but I think the issue is how the Labour Party becomes electable. That is the only task for a political party: whether it can rise to the challenge of the times and deal with the real problems we face."

Interesting words from a man who showed himself to be quite unelectable indeed. But hey, why not keep pushing the line that the population is fundamentally Thatcherite and any attempts to move left of that are doomed? It's not like politicians have the ability to influence public opinion, or anything. They're just passengers on this train towards austerity, you see. The public demands it!

Meanwhile, David Cameron is also urging Corbyn to resign. Food for thought, that.

NDPP

CETA On Track For Ratification Before UK Leaves EU, Minister Says (and vid)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ceta-europe-trade-deal-1.3654857

"In the aftermath of last week's Brexit vote, the European Union is even more determined to sign a free trade agreement with Canada, international Trade Minister Chrystia Freeland says, and there is not the slightest 'whisper' of doubt over the massive deal."

The opposite is more likely the case. In fact all of the big trade deals such as TTIP etc are looking very shaky as a result of this critical political event.

 

Washington Fears Brexit Will Unravel Its Anti-Russia Policy  -  by Finian Cunningham

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/348600-washington-fears-brexit-unravel/

"Britain's stunning referendum vote to leave the European Union has thrown a cat among the pigeons, not least in Washington, where it is feared that the 'Brexit' could scupper its anti-Russia policy.

In particular the loss of British influence inside the EU will impact on Washington's carefully constructed policy of trying to isolate Russia. As the New York Times headlined: 'With Brexit, Washington's direct line to the continent suddenly frays'...

 

iyraste1313

"Either the Labour Party will become an anti-globalisation protest party, or it's going to become a party that is able to tell people how we can best manage."...

...this epitomizes all that is totally corrupt with our western version of (corrupt!!) democracy...

people now have to face reality....globalization is a total fraud...everything claimed for it was a lie! In the service of the elites of the elites....

Globalization as a political force is dead! What is now essential is to piece together a self reliant autonomous economic alternative, with finances under the sewrvice of the economy and the working people, not the oligarchs.....

political movements like Labour and the NDP and Syriza which act in contardiction of their supposed rhetoric must be allowed to die...as finanlly, finally! people are beginning to realize the fraud of such empty rhetoric!

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Washington Fears Brexit Will Unravel Its Anti-Russia Policy  -  by Finian Cunningham

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/348600-washington-fears-brexit-unravel/

Britain would thus bring a strong NATO perspective to the emerging EU. The US-led military alliance’s unofficial objective from its postwar inception in 1949 was, according to British Lord Ismay, the first secretary-general, to “keep the Americans in, the Germans down and the Russians out”. And Britain’s presence within the EU – as the second biggest economy after Germany – ensured that this anti-Russian ideology always remained a potent force, even 25 years after the Cold War supposedly ended.

But Britain didn't join the EC until the 1970s.

 

sherpa-finn

iyraste1313 wrote:

"People now have to face reality....globalization is a total fraud...everything claimed for it was a lie! In the service of the elites of the elites....

Globalization as a political force is dead! What is now essential is to piece together a self reliant autonomous economic alternative, with finances under the sewrvice of the economy and the working people, not the oligarchs.....

political movements like Labour and the NDP and Syriza which act in contardiction of their supposed rhetoric must be allowed to die...as finanlly, finally! people are beginning to realize the fraud of such empty rhetoric!

Woah. Major flashback to a Trotskyist past. Happy days.

 

There go my people, I must find out where they are going so I can lead them.  - Alexandre Auguste Ledru-Rollin

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..good news about the ttip

The global order is dying. But it’s an illusion to think Britain can survive without the EU

quote:

The impact has been immediate. Almost unnoticed amid the post-Brexit hysteria, French president François Hollande announced his intention to veto TTIP, the free-trade treaty between the EU and the US. For clarity, that means it is dead.

 

sherpa-finn

Amidst the noise at the Corbyn rally was the sound of a political movement throwing itself into the abyss....

I asked: how do you expect to win an election without floating voters? The working classes will rise, she said; and the ever mysterious youth. I ask the same question today. The first two people say: it doesn’t matter if Labour win an election, it is more important that Corbyn survives than the movement. The third said there is no difference between a right-wing Labour government and a Tory government; they are the same, except Labour is more treacherous and so, presumably, less welcome. What matters is the purity of the attempt.

This makes me so angry a head-ache rises. Part of me wants them to be right, and to believe that they can – these two or three thousand people – form a socialist utopia in Britain with Corbyn as their leader. They really do believe that, because they are dreamers. I think it is insane because Britain is not, as Marx learnt and the Corbynistas forgot, a socialist country and it never will be; hence the head-ache.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/amidst-noise-corbyn-rally-sound-pol...

 

lagatta

NorthReport, at least for English-speaking Canada, that would mean closer ties to the oh-so progressive US.

lagatta

NorthReport, at least for English-speaking Canada, that would mean closer ties to the oh-so progressive US.

NorthReport

The worst thing to happen here is for Corbyn to cave in to the Blairites Seriously what are the policy differences between Blair and Cameron?
But the left are experts in self-destruction as opposed to the right who realize the importance of winning, because if you don't win you don't change much, but if you do win you can at least change a few things
The big mistake the left makes is they don't realize that politics is first and foremost about who gets the next government contract

NorthReport

El-Gingihy has a good article in the Independent today

sherpa-finn

El-Gingihy has a good article in the Independent today

Which can be found here....  

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-labour-leadersh...

The major flaw in El-Gingihy's argument being (IMHO) equating Corbyn's political analysis and positions (which may well be "correct" on some abstract scale of progressive politics) with his leadership abilities - which are clearly close to non-existent.

The simple fact is the "correctness" of one's policy positions means nothing to anyone but debating clubs (and Babblers!) unless you can advance those positions through political processes. And Corbyn has proven himself to be wholly incapable of Job #1 for a Parliamentary Leader - holding his own parliamentary caucus together.  As such he is soooo dead in the water as a credible party leader and prospective Prime Minister.

But fight on, he might ....   after 30 years on the back benches he will make the most of his moment in the sun.  

 

Orange Crushed

I'd say Corbyn should fight on to see what the members have to say.  As it looks to me like half his caucus members had it in for him from the moment he was elected and may therefore have some small role in the civil war now going in the party.   Then they'll no doubt win Britain back to the safe centre again, now that elected governments having some control over their own economies has apparently been defined as hopelessly Trotsky-ist.  What with global trade, immigration, computers and all that other new stuff.

 

Orange Crushed

The amount of mud-slinging, name calling and hype used by the 'remainers' really makes me wonder if they do have any substance behind them besides a sense of entitlement.  Particularly when they try to call down Corbyn for not winning the election for them in Middle England.  What, seventy percent Labour-for isn't high enough, he should have appealed the little Englanders and football yobs as well?  So Donald Trump and other rightwingers now use some of the same anti-globalization rhetoric as the left.  I believe it was the left that first argued the dangers of letting transnationals write the rules, at one time with the help of social democrats, but guys like Pat Buchanan stole some of them and repackaged them under the banner of ethnic nationalism and mindless patriotism.  I don't recall anyoine arguing on the left that the nation state was a perfect instrument, only that it could regulate the flow of capital more fairly and democratically.   But now apparently to question it now is tantamount to hating foreigners and immigrants.  And any attempt to use any anti-elitist ground swell towards more positive ends must necessarily imply getting into bed with them.  As if all the protesters in France, Greece and elsewhere are really just the same coin as the LePens and Farage's of the world.  As if the EU didn't have plenty of LePens already.  As if the elites are so concerned about the plight of the low wage labourers they prefer to emply.  As if racism doesn't exist in any existing block of voters and any class, muted or no.  As if voting on the same side of a single issue referendum is the same as agreeing or working with the bigots on ANYTHING else, before, during and after.   Hey, we vote with them all the time.  We might even buy stuff from them.  And we wonder why the centre-left is fracturing and the leftwing may not be so enthusiastic either about the the strategy or tactics of the Clintons and Blairs we keep getting inflicted with.  History, legal legitimacy and the real authority to legislate and alter social structures apparently don't matter as much as rhetoric and manouevering WITHIN them.  TINA, I know.  Not anymore.

 

Orange Crushed

epaulo13 wrote:

..good news about the ttip

The global order is dying. But it’s an illusion to think Britain can survive without the EU

quote:

The impact has been immediate. Almost unnoticed amid the post-Brexit hysteria, French president François Hollande announced his intention to veto TTIP, the free-trade treaty between the EU and the US. For clarity, that means it is dead.

 

 

Yes, I read that, that might be a more acceptable possibility still, politically and otherwise.  Although I think he's being a bit naive himsself thinking that the corporations concerns about stagnating growth may override their personal interest in keeping wages and taxes low.  To them that's the KEY to growth.  Their own.  

If most government can't think past five years most companies can't see beyond five days.

wage zombie

sherpa-finn wrote:

The major flaw in El-Gingihy's argument being (IMHO) equating Corbyn's political analysis and positions (which may well be "correct" on some abstract scale of progressive politics) with his leadership abilities - which are clearly close to non-existent.

The simple fact is the "correctness" of one's policy positions means nothing to anyone but debating clubs (and Babblers!) unless you can advance those positions through political processes. And Corbyn has proven himself to be wholly incapable of Job #1 for a Parliamentary Leader - holding his own parliamentary caucus together.  As such he is soooo dead in the water as a credible party leader and prospective Prime Minister.

But fight on, he might ....   after 30 years on the back benches he will make the most of his moment in the sun.  

Labour’s No Confidence Vote is a Perfect Example of How Not to Do A Coup

Quote:

But their problems go deeper than that. Thus far, the critique of Corbyn is strikingly vapid. It is a meaningless and self-cancelling complaint to say that Corbyn can't unite the parliamentary party around him. All these MPs have to do is accept the mandate of the party membership, work with the elected leadership, and the complaint disappears. But that complaint is the entire substance of most of the resignation letters.  

If Corbyn is such an incompetent leader then the dissenting Labour MPs must be worse than useless.

Aristotleded24

Can someone please explain to me what Corbyn could have done differently that might have caused Brittan to vote for Remain?

Orange Crushed

And if there's any doubt where the Guardian-Observer-Independent loyalties really are.  Check out this bit of puffery, courtesy of NorthReport:

Theresa May – what lies beyond the public image?S

he's widely tipped as the next leader of the Tory party, yet little is known about the home secretary. Here, friends and colleagues tell the truth about the inscrutable MP

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/27/theresa-may-profile-beyo...

 

If only Corbyn could get such good press.  May apparently had a rather unsavoury record of deporting Muslims using questionable methods.  But she did vote against Brexit.  

Enough from me.   

Orange Crushed

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Can someone please explain to me what Corbyn could have done differently that might have caused Brittan to vote for Remain?

 

I couldn't. 

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

'yob' is a classist insult. Try to learn the context of English words before using them.

josh

Looks like Eagle will challenge Corbyn. And possibly Owen Smith. Gove apparently has stabbed Johnson in the back and decided to run. Along with May and a couple of others.

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

josh

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Can someone please explain to me what Corbyn could have done differently that might have caused Brittan to vote for Remain?

Nothing. But if he had kissed Tony Blair's ass in the middle of Piccadilly Circus, he would not be facing a challenge.

josh

Johnson won't run after the Gove stab in the back.

sherpa-finn

 If only Corbyn could get such good press...

Actually, Corbyn has gotten tons of good press. And he is widely characterised as honest, committed, consistent, moral, progressive, full of integrity, etc., etc. 

The one thing no one has accused him of is being able to lead a big tent political party. And for better or for worse, that was the job he applied for and won.

But when the people who work directly for you vote over 75% in favour of a motion of non-confidence, you are done.  Think of it as a kind of worker's revolt against an incompetent boss, if it helps. Sure, the shareholders put him there (and may yet re-confirm him there) but on the parliamentary shop floor, the overwhelming majority consider him incompetent.

It just so happens that this time the incompetent boss is really progressive on questions of Palestine, globalisation, etc. Still an incompetent boss.  

NorthReport

Before the vote most thought the remain side would win and so a lot of the leave vote was a protest vote with these leave voters never thinking the leave side would win Had they known the results might have been different but thems the breaks

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

sherpa-finn wrote:

 If only Corbyn could get such good press...

Actually, Corbyn has gotten tons of good press. And he is widely characterised as honest, committed, consistent, moral, progressive, full of integrity, etc., etc. 

The one thing no one has accused him of is being able to lead a big tent political party. And for better or for worse, that was the job he applied for and won.

But when the people who work directly for you vote over 75% in favour of a motion of non-confidence, you are done.  Think of it as a kind of worker's revolt against an incompetent boss, if it helps. Sure, the shareholders put him there (and may yet re-confirm him there) but on the parliamentary shop floor, the overwhelming majority consider him incompetent.

It just so happens that this time the incompetent boss is really progressive on questions of Palestine, globalisation, etc. Still an incompetent boss.  

The concept of these prima-donna, self-interested, careerist, and largely incompetent MPs as "workers" is just ludicrous. As has already been pointed out several times, most of them have never accepted the membership's choice of Corbyn, and have plotted to unseat him since before he was even elected. His failure to convert them is not incompetence on his part, it is bad faith on their part.

NorthReport

The Brits will probably have an election soon and these Labour MPs are destroying any possible chance of Labour winning. 

swallow swallow's picture

sherpa-finn wrote:

 If only Corbyn could get such good press...

Actually, Corbyn has gotten tons of good press. And he is widely characterised as honest, committed, consistent, moral, progressive, full of integrity, etc., etc. 

The one thing no one has accused him of is being able to lead a big tent political party. And for better or for worse, that was the job he applied for and won.

But when the people who work directly for you vote over 75% in favour of a motion of non-confidence, you are done.  Think of it as a kind of worker's revolt against an incompetent boss, if it helps. Sure, the shareholders put him there (and may yet re-confirm him there) but on the parliamentary shop floor, the overwhelming majority consider him incompetent.

It just so happens that this time the incompetent boss is really progressive on questions of Palestine, globalisation, etc. Still an incompetent boss.  

I have to differ with this. The Labour movement was not founded as a 'big tent' that would mean all things to all people. It was founded as a movement of principle and social change, and it's had a lot of success over the years in changing Britain from the Tory-Liberal imperial island of old, into a very different place. 

And so, inevitably, it became a party of power, striving for the 'big tent.' That may be right, it may be wrong, as a strategy. All social-democratic parties have had to grapple with that question precisely. 

Corbyn proposed to make the Labour party back into a movement, controlled by its members and not by its members of parliament. He proposed to reject the Blairite 'big tent.' You can agree or disagree, but he didn't apply to lead a big tent party, he applied to change the very nature of that party. (Think Svend Robinson and the New Politics Initiative - a leadership campaign based on changing the NDP into a vehicle for social movements, not a big tent.) The membership by a large margin accepted his proposal. It's rich to now turn around and fault him for doing what he promised to do. It's rich to take a leader who has returned the party's electoral fortune and delivered the bulk of its vote to remain, and demand he step down. It's rich to criticize his critical support for the EU as 'weak campaigning' when it was so much more effective than the train wreck David Cameron delivered. 

It's especially rich since it's so obvious that the parliamentary Labour party never wanted him in the first place, to claim that their rejection of his leadership in any way undermines his project. In fact, it may even reinforce the importance of what Corbyn, Momentum, etc. are trying to do - make the party into a movement. I suspect these people, who never backed Corbyn, have simply seen the moment to turn on him and prevent him leading newer Labour into an election that it might well win. 

 

NDPP

Chunky Mark, the Artist Taxi Driver: 'Jeremy Corbyn Leadership Election is ON...'

https://youtu.be/Al0INaMcJPs

lagatta

Here is a disturbing article about post-Brexit celebratory racism:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/frenzy-hatred-brexit-rac...

Some of the Blairite commenters at the Guardian are claiming that a large percentage of Corbyn supporters are SWP members, wilfully "forgetting" the implosion of that group a couple of years ago over a rape cover-up and many revalations of deeply undemocratic internal functioning...

NorthReport

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