Condemn the War Criminals

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Rikardo

So has Judge Garzon been suspended ?  I remember his attempt at judging Pinochet as if Pinochet was the unique criminal in the overthrow of Allende.  It seemed to me that it was up to the Chileans to deal with him, not some new Spanish Savanorola. Like its up to the British to judge Tony Blair.

I wonder where this thirst for "universal justice" comes from, other than that it furthers the careers and crusades of a class of zealous judicial activists.  We Westerners, Christians, used to have a Just God, who punished the wicked, if not in this world, then in the next.  We could count on it.  No longer. That really bothers some of us.  At least God had authority whereas this new Rome Treaty Tribunal has little.  Who judges its judges?  Behind our Supreme Court stands the Parliament, constitutionally with the authority of the people.

Now the ICC, at great cost, has had a conference on adding "agression" to their mandate.  Since Nuremburg, agression has been the supreme crime but that didn't prevent the humanitarian bombing of ex-Yugoslavia nor the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. 

 

NDPP

"We are the Accusers not the Accused"

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article1470

"All of the defendants have argued that what they did was not only morally necessary but crucially that it was legal. UK law allows the commission of damage to property, to prevent greater crimes.."

 

 

Rikardo

Will no one comment on my last posting ?  The ICC is the great hope of so many on the Left.  As a former (70s) supporter of the World Federalists I may have encouraged it through my membership fees.

NDPP

The ICC is a fixed-game, Imperialist, Kangaroo court that will only go after African leaders, small fry and official enemies - not  Bush, Obama or Netanyahu. It is a farce and worse than useless as a vehicle for prosecuting war criminals. As stated above; when the criminals themselves control the justice process, there is no justice.

Merowe

Rikardo wrote:

Will no one comment on my last posting ?  The ICC is the great hope of so many on the Left.  As a former (70s) supporter of the World Federalists I may have encouraged it through my membership fees.

What am I to say? I don't know about 'great hope', more like a practical idea scuppered by geopolitics. I am delighted that the Henry Kissingers and Israeli defence ministers of this world have to think twice when considering trips abroad. Its early days yet and there is no objective reason to believe it won't go even more pearshaped, but in principle, by all means turn up the heat on the sociopaths.

Frmrsldr

There's also the ICJ, the International Court of Justice.

The U.N. is also in the process of selecting members for its own inquiry of the Israeli attack on the Gaza Freedom Flotilla.

As of yet, I haven't heard of any further developments, though.

NDPP

US Hijacks ICC Conference

http://www.voltairenet.org/article166182.html

"The ICC conference in Kampala last month reached the historic agreement to include the crime of aggression within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. However, the US successfully maneuvered from the sidelines to subvert the process. By obtaining ICC subordination to the decisions of the Security Council, where the US wields veto power, Washington has not only further eviscerated the Court, it has in effect guaranteed immunity for US nationals.."

British Officials Moving to Ammend Internal Law to Protect Israel's War Criminals

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=25620

"Pro-Israeli senior officials in the British government are embarking on getting the arrest warrant law changed in order to prevent the arrest of Israeli officials during their visits to the UK.."

Rikardo

Merove, in response to me, writes that the ICC is a "practical idea scuppered by geopolitics."  I fail to see the "practical" in an institution costing over $100 million in public funds going to well-paid lawyers and expenses with so few results.  If (geo)politics scupper it, so much the better.  Politics means people, opinions, and power and they're closer to democracy than appointed judges.  Have we forgotten the Inquisition and the Stalin trials ?  I would not want to live in a world where Henry Kissinger or anyone could be tried by some non-democratic Universal Court.  His excesses have been well documented for those interested.  Our national courts exist in a more-or-less democratic framework.  The UN is not the World Government.

Thanks to NoDifferencePar for his updates

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Where does the ICC get it's operational money from?

NDPP

"The ICC is financed by contributions from the state parties. The amount payable is determined by the same method as the United Nations - each state's contribution is based on the country's capacity to pay.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Humm can't get the pie chart in that link to show... seems the USA, China and Russia is lacking in the chart. Gee I wounder why?...Undecided

NDPP

Israel's Friends at Westminster Legislate to Protect Vilest Criminals

http://www.redress.cc/stooges/slittlewood20100724

"Israelis wanted for war crimes can sleep easier thanks to their friends and admirers in the British establishment.."

NDPP

Who Will Take Out the Garbage if Our Courts and Justice System Won't Punish War Crimes?

http://www.redress.cc/global/slittlewood20100807

"Stuart Littlewood considers the impunity with which state sponsored murderers and war criminals operate and argues that if universal jurisdiction is not made to work, then upright, socially responsible citizens may have to dispense justice themselves. 'Assassinations may not remain the private playground of shadowy CIA and Mossad operatives for much longer.."

Perhaps war criminals like Avigdor Lieberman, George Bush or Bill Clinton may not visit Canada with the comfortable ease they have thus far enjoyed. The case of activist Splitting the Sky's attempts to citizen's arrest George Bush in the face of Canada's refusal to implement its own law concerning 'credibly suspected' war criminals, is an item worth considering in this regard.."

NDPP

Universal Jurisdiction to Hold Israel Accountable

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/08/universal-jurisdiction-to-hold-isr...

"The well established universal jurisdiction principle (UJ) holds that certain crimes are too grave to ignore, including genocide, crimes of war and against humanity..It's high time UJ principles enforce accountablitiy using Israel as a test case.."

See also Bruce A Clark: 'Judicial Culpability for War and Genocide in the Age of American Empire'

http://www.bepress.com/gj/vol8/iss3/art6/

"For legal purposes, the American empire was inaugurated in the 1870s with the invasion and occupation of the national territories of the Indians of North America, and continues with the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.."

NDPP
NDPP

Criminalization of Justice at the Hague: Carla Del Ponte Faces Charges of Witness Intimidation

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20938

"Carla Del Ponte, the former chief prosecutor of the International Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in the Hague has recently been confronted with charges of intimidation of witnesses, which has led to the tribunal opening an investigation into the matter..."

NDPP

Uncovering International Judges

http://bosco.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/09/10/uncovering_international...

"Several UK-based legal scholars have just published an important new book, Selecting International Judges, that takes a hard look at how international judges are chosen. They examine the International Criminal Court and the International Court of Justice and the results are devastating...

For the most part they find that judges are selected through a combination of cronyism at the national level and horse-trading at the international level.."

NDPP

The Collapse of Western Morality - by Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts09242010.html

"As the Israeli official said, we are only doing to the Palestinians what the Americans did to the American Indians...."

NDPP

Exclusive Eye Witness Account: Universal Jurisdiction on Trial

http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/articles/middle-east/1613-exclusive-...

"When I was being held in Israel in 2007 and undergoing a 12-hour interrogation session I remember my interrogator saying to me as he shrugged his shoulders 'International Law? What is that?'

I asked him if he believed he was above International Law and he said 'Of course; we are the Law.'

NDPP

The Ad Hoc War Crimes Tribunals - by Christopher Black

http://narodnipokretsrbije.info/?p=2312

"The abandonment of these fundamental principles upon which all international law was constructed, has been trumped by the further step taken by the American government of claiming the right to set up their own military tribunals to condemn as criminals any persons who resist the agenda...The purpose of these tribunals is simply propaganda. They have no other purpose.."

 

NDPP

More Evidence of US War Crimes

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jan2011/pers-j24.shtml

"All these officials deserve to face an international war crimes tribunal.."

Rikardo

 

The powerful countries like Britain and Germany would never support an International Court that could condemn one of its own leaders like Blair.  Meanwhile the ICC provides excellent incomes for hundreds of well-meaning zealots.  I expect it will go the way of the League of Nations.  More and more African countries are ignoring it.  Its part of a Western New World Order, a project of the World Federalists supported by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch.

I've just read "Victors' Justice - From Nuremberg to Baghdad" by Danilo Zolo which had an excellent review in the London Review of Books.  The Allies had already in 1942 proclaimed no immunity/impunity for German and Japanese leaders likely prolonging the war for a least one year, a year of hundreds of thousands of innocents killed.

 

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

"All these officials deserve to face an international war crimes tribunal.."

But they never will (and you know it deep down inside). That could happen only if the USA gave them up to a ICC and that will never happen, ever.

But you can always hope.

 

Frmrsldr

Bush cancels Switzerland visit under threat of protests and efforts to arrest him:

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/142289-bush-cancels-swi...

NDPP

When similar grounds for prosecution of Bush were presented to each and every MP requesting their assistance, by Lawyers Against War, before the last Bush Canada visit, all declined to assist. L.A.W received a further response to their solicitation from Jack Layton's office that "no further correspondence will be entertained."

Frmrsldr

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

When similar grounds for prosecution of Bush were presented to each and every MP requesting their assistance, by Lawyers Against War, before the last Bush Canada visit, all declined to assist. L.A.W received a further response to their solicitation from Jack Layton's office that "no further correspondence will be entertained."

Why can't Canada be like Switzerland?

Enduro Man Enduro Man's picture

Frmrsldr wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

When similar grounds for prosecution of Bush were presented to each and every MP requesting their assistance, by Lawyers Against War, before the last Bush Canada visit, all declined to assist. L.A.W received a further response to their solicitation from Jack Layton's office that "no further correspondence will be entertained."

Why can't Canada be like Switzerland?

Why can't the USA?  Their own laws forbid torture and the ordering of it carried out.

Bush openly admitted to doing so.  In fact he said he would do it again.  There is no reason why Eric Holder's Justice Department cannot arrest, charge and try the son of a bitch and then throw him in jail.

Obama's excuses have long since worn thin.  Of course the American media will now not even entertain the possibility of bringing such a mass murderer to justice.  Disgusting.

Frmrsldr

Enduro Man wrote:

Their [the U.S.A.'s] own laws forbid torture and the ordering of it carried out.

Bush openly admitted to doing so.  In fact he said he would do it again.  There is no reason why Eric Holder's Justice Department cannot arrest, charge and try the son of a bitch and then throw him in jail.

Obama's excuses have long since worn thin.  Of course the American media will now not even entertain the possibility of bringing such a mass murderer to justice.  Disgusting.

There's the problem. Obama is himself a war criminal/human rights abuser when he said his administration wasn't going to persue the wrongs committed and prosecute those who committed them in the Bush administration. To aid and abet criminals is itself as criminal as if one committed the original crime.

Things aren't much different in Canada. Look at how Herr Harper has so far successfully quashed or delayed Torturegate, Sand Trap I and possibly Sand Trap II.

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

"All these officials deserve to face an international war crimes tribunal.."

But they never will (and you know it deep down inside). That could happen only if the USA gave them up to a ICC and that will never happen, ever.

But you can always hope.

It almost doesn't matter now as some truth deniers like to say. But it doesn't matter to Anglo-American-Canadian oligarchy for entirely different reasons. Asian and BRIC countries, the rest of the non English speaking world, realize now that the USA is a very corrupt and very lawless nation. At one time the US was able to convince/coerce countries to bow to US imperialism, like Japan when they begged them to please commit economic suicide by 1987,  in order to help out an ailing American economy. They are asking China and other countries to do something similar today. But there has been a real decline of faith in US economic and foreign policies in just the last ten years. We're into a colder war now and trust between countries is waning. The western world has descended into economic and currency conflicts as well as a state of increasing liquid war. These are dangerous times.

NDPP

George W: No Immunity for Former Presidents Under Law

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23139

"According to the Bush indictment, which was written on behalf of torture victims by CCR and ECCHR, former President Bush bears individual and criminal responsibility for the acts of his subordinates which he ordered, authorized, condoned or otherwise aided and abetted, as well as violations committed by his subordinates which he failed to prevent or punish.

As all states are obliged to prosecute such torturers, Bush has good reason to be very worried."

Enduro Man Enduro Man's picture

Fidel wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

"All these officials deserve to face an international war crimes tribunal.."

But they never will (and you know it deep down inside). That could happen only if the USA gave them up to a ICC and that will never happen, ever.

But you can always hope.

It almost doesn't matter now as some truth deniers like to say. But it doesn't matter to Anglo-American-Canadian oligarchy for entirely different reasons. Asian and BRIC countries, the rest of the non English speaking world, realize now that the USA is a very corrupt and very lawless nation. At one time the US was able to convince/coerce countries to bow to US imperialism, like Japan when they begged them to please commit economic suicide by 1987,  in order to help out an ailing American economy. They are asking China and other countries to do something similar today. But there has been a real decline of faith in US economic and foreign policies in just the last ten years. We're into a colder war now and trust between countries is waning. The western world has descended into economic and currency conflicts as well as a state of increasing liquid war. These are dangerous times.

I find it endlessly hilarious how the US news media and its clueless pundits actually expect the Chinese to "stop manipulating their currency" while completely ignoring the fact that this is exactly what their own Fed has been doing with Quantitative Easing I and II.  Printing massive sums of money in a desperate bid to make American made crap more sellable.  Problem is, no-one's buying.  Even GM has had to set up plants in China in order to sell there.  When are these idiots going to realize that the Chinese and Indians aren't stupid?

It's as if they actually still beleive that the rest of the world owes them something.  The arrogance is appalling.  It's like watching an imperious buffoon of a captain shouting orders from the bridge of a sinking ship.

Frmrsldr

Enduro Man wrote:

Frmrsldr wrote:

 

Why can't Canada be like Switzerland?

Why can't the USA?  Their own laws forbid torture and the ordering of it carried out.

Bush openly admitted to doing so.  In fact he said he would do it again.  There is no reason why Eric Holder's Justice Department cannot arrest, charge and try the son of a bitch and then throw him in jail.

http://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2011/02/09/americas-stay-at-home-ex...

Ray McGovern wrote:

... After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Armed Services Committee concluded in December 2008 that it was President Bush himself who, by the Executive Memorandum of Feb. 7, 2002, "opened the door" to the abuse that ensued.

... Remember, Mr. President, it was Richard Nixon who pronounced the principle of presidential impunity in his famous statement to interviewer David Frost, "When the president does it, that means it's not illegal."

Oh, the pardon? Well, you're right. Nixon did need to be pardoned, but no worries for you on that score. What luck that we were able to get Obama and Eric Holder to agree to ride shotgun for us, if anyone summoned the temerity to bring charges against us for torture.

... You may remember that one of the Bush administration's favorite slogans was that evildoers must be "brought to justice." Now, the world will be watching to see whether the evildoers of the Bush administration meet justice in the months and years to come.

Rikardo

"But you can always hope"

What are you hoping for ? Some universal totalitarian "just" (by whose standards) COURT that will catch and try ALL the "war criminals".  Look at this trial of Charles Taylor (not our philosopher) of Sierre Leone.  Its already cost over $200 million of public funds that didn't go to buy treatment for the millions still suffering from AIDS .

In "Victors' Justice" Danilo Zolo writes that our Western "ethicojuridical universalism tends, like any universalism, to intolerance, aggressiveness and denial of cultural diversity and the complexity of our world." (Think of XIXth century Christianity).

You "hopers" or "believers" are denying the reality that the powerful can never agree to be put on trial.

Enduro Man Enduro Man's picture

UNCAT.

 

The USA and Canada is signatory.

NDPP

Spain Hears You:

http://warisacrime.org/content/spain-hears-you

"The Spanish government's representatives appreciated the support you gave them earlier this month, thanking and encouraging Spain to prosecute US war criminals. 'This is a monumental decision that will enable a Spanish judge to continue a case on the 'authorized and systematic plan of torture and ill treatment' by US officials at Guantanamo.."

NDPP

Protest Held in Surrey Over Planned Visit from George Bush

http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey-area/surreyleader/news/121120274.html

"...The group is critical of Mayor Dianne Watts for inviting the former US president to Surrey's Regional Economic Summit this October. Bush should be arrested for war crimes, the group insists.."

 

Rikardo

Moreno-Ocampo, the Accusateur publique of the self-proclamed International Criminal Court, largely a creation of the NATO countries (but not officially the US) in 2002, has well played his role in Libya.  At over $100 million a year of public money this kangaroo has little to show for its 8 years in Africa where the real criminals exploit and manipulate with impunity.  Its a "feel-good" project promoted by World Federalists and other Western NGOs giving good paying jobs and all expenses paid to a bunch of judicial zealots

NDPP

Spain Proceeding With Bush Torture Case

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/374-bush-administration/947...

"A Spanish judge on Friday, re-launched an investigation into the alleged torture of detainees held at the US detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, one day after British authorities launched a probe into CIA renditions to Libya..."

NDPP
NDPP

War, War Crimes, Power and Justice: Toward a Jurisprudence of Conscience  - by Richard Falk

http://zcommunications.org/war-war-crimes-power-and-justice-toward-a-jur...

"The problems of victors' justice and double standards pervade and subvert the proper application of international law."

 

 

NDPP

Perverts in Power: The Torture Lovers Who Rule Us - by Chris FLoyd

http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2232-perv...

"...So why does it happen? Why are innocent, pregnant women wrapped in tape, why are children abducted, why are innocent people strung up in 'stress positions', why are captives beaten, bombarded with brain-scrambling noise, stripped naked and sexually humiliated, drugged, deprived of sleep, threatened with murder - and sometimes murdered in fact? Why is this being done by official representatives of the governments of the US and the UK?

Why? Because - and let us be absolutely clear about this - because these people want to torture others. They like it, they enjoy it. There is clearly a zest, a psychosexual rush at work, like child abusers, they enjoy their full, unchallengeable physical power over the bodies of their defenseless victims. They get off on it. They are the moral equivalent of pedophiles and in any remotely healthy society, they would be treated as such.

Torture is being carried out because our leaders want it to be, because they like it. There are no reluctant torturers - neither at the highest levels nor among the factotums actually doing the deed. There are no reluctant torturers. This point is important to remember. No one is forced to carry out torture. This is one of the great absolving myths that societies tell themselves when at some point their filthy crimes are belched forth and cannot be denied..."

NDPP

Malaysia Puts Bush, Cheney on 'Trial' for War Crimes (and vid)

http://warisacrime.org/content/malaysia-puts-bush-cheney-trial-war-crimes

NDPP

How Many Liberals Does It Take To Rehabilitate A Major War Criminal?

https://twitter.com/timand2037/status/1182842594977443840

"Thank you Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton and Bono for confirming for us how close western liberal elites are with the worst of western war criminals."

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