Coronavirus: what Canadians need to know

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NDPP

Re: #2047

Here's another:

Communist Subversion: A Plan for Total World-Wide Control

https://youtu.be/xeDPSdWJNO0

'Iconic' and 'communist propaganda': Joe McCarthy rides again...Beam me up, now Scotty.

NDPP

Ontario's Doctor Says If You Refuse to Get the COVID-19 Vaccine You May Face Restrictions

https://www.narcity.com/en-ca/news/toronto/ontarios-covid19-vaccine-rule...

"In a press conference on Thursday, Dr David Williams, Ontario's chief medical officer of health, gave some more insights into immunization. Williams stated that although the vaccine will not be mandatory for residents, refusing to take it could come with consequences.

'What may be mandatory, is proof of immunization or vaccination with the proper product in order to have latitude and freedom in order to move around,' Williams stated..."

kropotkin1951

bekayne wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

 

You  mean how New Zealand was so successful stopping covid that it had to go into a second lockdown, which resulted in lockdown protests?

You keep saying this. What does the existence of  a protest prove? Is the protester always right?

Here is a good article about the protestors in Vancouver. If you take to the barricades be mindful of who is leading the parade and who you are standing shoulder to shoulder with.

At Vancouver's No New Normal protest last Sunday, Nadine expressed her disappointment that other leftists did not join in with her anti-mask rubbish, and then denounced "Satanic, Talmudic" people. Anti-Semitism remains a regular feature at their protests.

https://www.straight.com/news/bc-antilockdown-activist-marco-pietro-deni...

 

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Here is a good article about the protestors in Vancouver. If you take to the barricades be mindful of who is leading the parade and who you are standing shoulder to shoulder with.

At Vancouver's No New Normal protest last Sunday, Nadine expressed her disappointment that other leftists did not join in with her anti-mask rubbish, and then denounced "Satanic, Talmudic" people. Anti-Semitism remains a regular feature at their protests.

https://www.straight.com/news/bc-antilockdown-activist-marco-pietro-deni...

 

There are always unsavoury elements that attach themselves to any protest, and it is common for the media to give voice to those unsavoury elements as a means to discredit the protest rather than discuss the issues. That happens to people on the left all the time. It's a despciable tactic, and it's cheap. To me it shows that the left is just as dangerous and authortarian as the right. Both political groups have their sections of the population to which they pander without actual concern for their well-being, they have their utopian vision that they want to impose on society that is divorced from the on-the-ground reality of every day people, and they will handily discard those segments of the population that don't share their values. The only difference is which groups of society they claim to care about and exactly how that utopian vision should look.

NDPP

Ontario breaks another record. Records more than 1,900 new COVID-19 cases.

NDPP

Queen to be vaccinated within weeks, but no preferential treatment: UK reports

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/queen-to-be-vaccinated-within-...

"Queen Elizabeth II will receive the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine within weeks, reports on Sunday said, as the biggest immunization program in UK history begins next week. The most senior royals will 'let it be known' they have been given the innoculation 'as a powerful counter to the anti-vaccine movement,' the Sunday Times said..."

kropotkin1951

Aristotleded24 wrote:

To me it shows that the left is just as dangerous and authoritarian as the right.

I am not sure what your response was in relation to. A bunch of right wing nut jobs get together and you make a statement about "the left."  Whatever the fuck that is.

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

To me it shows that the left is just as dangerous and authoritarian as the right.

I am not sure what your response was in relation to. A bunch of right wing nut jobs get together and you make a statement about "the left."  Whatever the fuck that is.

That article you posted was a smear piece. It held up the voice of a couple of right-wingers with objectionable views and made it out as if they speak for the entire anti-lockdown movement. There was absolutely nothing in that article about why people were protesting the lockdowns or what was going on there.

kropotkin1951

So here is a full length video of the rally from a sympathizers point of view. I stand by my judgement that the people leading the parade are right wing nut jobs. For those who like to skip to the end of a novel to see what happens go to 2:47:00 where a woman with a bullhorn is educating us all about nano bots in vaccines for the great cull. Right after that the video blogger gets a thrill from talking to his soul sister from Rebel Media.

Who the fuck do you think the media should focus on if not the people speaking from the bully pulpits?

https://www.facebook.com/ryan.kulbaba/videos/10157782854012776

Aristotleded24

If I wanted to, I could just as easily find videos of people who attend left-wing protests who say all kinds of crazy things to thus discredit what that particular protest is about. The fact is there are legitimate reasons to question and be concerned about the impacts the lockdowns are having, unfortunately the media and the left are simply turning a blind eye to it. What's particularly troubling is that it's only these crazies on the right who are asking the quesitons that are glaringly obvious. It's very similar to how the 9/11 Truth conspiracy theories took off for a bit because it was only the 9/11 Truthers asking obvious questions. I'm really fearful that as the problems with lockdowns become more evident, that the crazies on the right will be able to capitalize on this and take off as a movement. I would rather deal with the problems of lockdowns and thus deny the fertile soil from which the crazies can be recruited. It might even have the impact of deradicalizing some of the followers of the crazies.

NDPP

COVID Canada Update; 12/6/2020

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus

  • Quebec COVID-19 cases surpass 150,000 with province reporting 1,691 new cases in 24 hrs.
  • More than 100 residents, 50 staff at Toronto LTC home test positive.
  • COVID-19 restrictions prompt people to find creative ways to avoid cabin fever
NDPP

Dr John Campbell, Coronavirus Update: 12/5/2020

https://youtu.be/GPpoPA0D2fw

Moderna and other vaccines.

 

Pandemic Weekend Update: USA etc

https://youtu.be/sm45WPaZz-g

Biden to ask all Americans to wear masks in all public places for 100 days. Dr Fauci to act as medical advisor.

bekayne

Aristotleded24 wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

To me it shows that the left is just as dangerous and authoritarian as the right.

I am not sure what your response was in relation to. A bunch of right wing nut jobs get together and you make a statement about "the left."  Whatever the fuck that is.

That article you posted was a smear piece. It held up the voice of a couple of right-wingers with objectionable views and made it out as if they speak for the entire anti-lockdown movement. There was absolutely nothing in that article about why people were protesting the lockdowns or what was going on there.

A couple? No, this was an Altamont of right wing loons

 

earthquakefish

Aristotleded24 wrote:

If I wanted to, I could just as easily find videos of people who attend left-wing protests who say all kinds of crazy things to thus discredit what that particular protest is about. The fact is there are legitimate reasons to question and be concerned about the impacts the lockdowns are having, unfortunately the media and the left are simply turning a blind eye to it. What's particularly troubling is that it's only these crazies on the right who are asking the quesitons that are glaringly obvious. It's very similar to how the 9/11 Truth conspiracy theories took off for a bit because it was only the 9/11 Truthers asking obvious questions. I'm really fearful that as the problems with lockdowns become more evident, that the crazies on the right will be able to capitalize on this and take off as a movement. I would rather deal with the problems of lockdowns and thus deny the fertile soil from which the crazies can be recruited. It might even have the impact of deradicalizing some of the followers of the crazies.

I mostly agree with you.  And I don't care if on this board that makes me a spade. The language used by media right now is becoming much more authoratarian and mocks basic respect.  The Toronto Star, posted an op-ed piece about anti-maskers, where they mocked a person in the op-ed piece of those 'traumatic' anti-maskers.  Two days earlier, they had reported of a woman who had been raped, who refused to wear a mask when she went to the hospital in emergency.  The language media is using now in relation is disgusting.  I would never feel using someone with trauma as food for fodder for an op-ed piece to dismiss concerns of people.

From my perspective, media now finally has something again for people to return to their sources of information.  Now, all at once, people are seeking information they trust.  If I were the CEO, editor of a newspaper, driven by profit, I would want this crisis to exist.

Which is different than me saying there is no crisis.  However, many will take inferrance that is what I mean.  I have lost someone in family to Covid, so I am trying be sensitive to how other's feel.

At some point, this discussion now longer feels about the disease or the illness and government/media response, and I do give them a failing grade.  A friend of mine has Cancer, recently diagnosed, it doesn't help he is refusing treatment, which will be fatal - if he died from Covid, possibly from a hospital in he saught treatment, his death will become a covid death - where his underlying conditions would have made him that weak to fight, and to die in months.  Where if he denies treatment, with this current level of fear/anxiety, I would place that as a covid death they would never count.

The cost of the collective response is becoming staggering.  

NDPP

Things are rough all over...

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/8aOLuf-qlko

"America closes down - people get shafted as monopolies take over."

Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:
Queen to be vaccinated within weeks, but no preferential treatment: UK reports

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/queen-to-be-vaccinated-within-...

"Queen Elizabeth II will receive the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine within weeks, reports on Sunday said, as the biggest immunization program in UK history begins next week. The most senior royals will 'let it be known' they have been given the innoculation 'as a powerful counter to the anti-vaccine movement,' the Sunday Times said..."

That's actually the proper public relations move. The idea is you have prominent people, royalty, politicians, and celebreties take the vaccine on camera themselves. What that shows the public is that these powerful people feel the vaccine is safe enough for them to take, and that can go a long way to reassuring a skeptical public.

NDPP

Trudeau government won't say who got billions of dollars in aid

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-spending-government-transparency-...

"This story is part of The Big Spend, a CBC News investigation examining the unprecedented $240 billion the federal government handed out during the first 8 months of the pandemic. An investigation by CBC News reveals that the Trudeau government hasn't been entirely transparent about where COVID-19 aid worth billions of dollars has gone..."

NDPP

"It appears the Vancouver Canucks have fired their longtime national anthem singer in response to reports he will be singing at a rally organized by COVID-19 deniers and anti-mask advocates."

https://twitter.com/hockeynight/status/1335196303639392257

NDPP

COVID Canada Updates: 12/7/2020

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/

  • Canada to get first Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine doses before end of December
  • Sinovac aims for 600m dose capacity for COVID-19 vaccine
  • Ont reports more than 1,900 new cases, breaks another record
  • Rudy Giuliani tests positive, latest in Trump inner circle.
NDPP

Saving Lives, Losing People? (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/shows/worlds-apart-oksana-boyko/508080-covid19-pandem...

"David Livermore (Great Barrington Declaration), professor of medical microbiology at the University of East Anglia. Does the current strategy of slowing the spread of the pandemic necessarily mean fewer lives lost overall?"

Aristotleded24

Hi earthquakefish, thank you so much for your support.

earthquakefish wrote:
The language used by media right now is becoming much more authoratarian and mocks basic respect.  The Toronto Star, posted an op-ed piece about anti-maskers, where they mocked a person in the op-ed piece of those 'traumatic' anti-maskers.  Two days earlier, they had reported of a woman who had been raped, who refused to wear a mask when she went to the hospital in emergency.  The language media is using now in relation is disgusting.  I would never feel using someone with trauma as food for fodder for an op-ed piece to dismiss concerns of people.

I remember even during the dark days of 9/11 and all the fearmongering, there was at least some sense of "this is a rough time but we will get through this." That has never been allowed with covid. No good news has been allowed, and anyone who questions the slant that this is the new plague is evil. Why that kind of negativity? Even right from the start, there was this insistence that nothing could ever be the same and we had to adapt to a "new normal." Do you know how frightening that is to many people?

earthquakefish wrote:
From my perspective, media now finally has something again for people to return to their sources of information.  Now, all at once, people are seeking information they trust.  If I were the CEO, editor of a newspaper, driven by profit, I would want this crisis to exist.

We don't even have the option to ignore the "bad news" because we depend on them to find out when things will get better. But of course the restrictions are gonig to last longer, so we have to tune in again tomorrow to see if they will be lifted. Of course they won't so we have to tune in the next day, and on it goes.

It almost seems as if there is something the media is trying to cover up. Oh right, there is. Just this past week, in Winnipeg I was able to walk around outside without wearing a hat. Anyone remotely familiar with Winnipeg's climate knows how out of the ordinary that is for December. Yet has anybody said anything about that? Speaking of climate change, if somebody isn't sure how they will make it to the end of the month, they aren't going to be to concerned about ideas like the Arctic ice field melting in 5 years, or the even more abstract idea of a 2 degree temperature rise. The covid lockdowns have pushed more people in the industrialized world into that position. I've also mentioned that if the climate denialists are able to capitalize on the covid failures to get people to question the climate science, that will not be good.

earthquakefish wrote:
Which is different than me saying there is no crisis.  However, many will take inferrance that is what I mean.  I have lost someone in family to Covid, so I am trying be sensitive to how other's feel.

My deepest condolences to you, and I get that you are trying to understand all perspectives. I think that assumption of good will is lacking on the other side. Especailly the idea that we need to "listen to front line health care workers." That's true, but I think these front line health care workers are being used to advance propaganda. Nobody listens to advocates of domestic abuse victims, people who work  with drug addicts, or suicide prevention counsellors who are saying, "these measures are hurting people and making our jobs more difficult." What's worse is that I can imagne people may start taking out their frustrations on front-line medical workers, which would be horrible because they have enough to deal with as it is.

earthquakefish wrote:
The cost of the collective response is becoming staggering.

Ezra Levant has been on Twitter calling out these ridiculous measures. As much as I hate that he has a point, in all honesty I have to concede that he has one. This is how political movements take off, if a particular movement is speaking to pressing concerns nobody else is talking about. Look at how Bernie Sanders took off in the United States, after being one of the few politicians to speak out for decades against the increasing concentration of wealth. Right now, it is only prominent right-wingers who are speaking to obvious concerns. Do you want that movement to take off? I don't and that is why I have been trying to say that these measures are counter-productive, and that we need a new approach.

NDPP

Neo-Nazis, extremists capitalizing on COVID-19, declassified CSIS documents say

https://globalnews.ca/news/7501783/neo-nazis-extremists-capitalizing-cor...

"Extremist groups have been promoting disinformation about COVID-19 in an attempt to capitalize on the pandemic, according to declassified Canadian intelligence files obtained by Global News. Neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-government extremists, in particular, have been using COVID-19 conspiracy theories to attract followers, raise money and encourage violence, the documents said...."

Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:
Neo-Nazis, extremists capitalizing on COVID-19, declassified CSIS documents say

https://globalnews.ca/news/7501783/neo-nazis-extremists-capitalizing-cor...

"Extremist groups have been promoting disinformation about COVID-19 in an attempt to capitalize on the pandemic, according to declassified Canadian intelligence files obtained by Global News. Neo-Nazis, white supremacists and anti-government extremists, in particular, have been using COVID-19 conspiracy theories to attract followers, raise money and encourage violence, the documents said...."

That will not end well.

Aristotleded24

earthquakefish wrote:
The cost of the collective response is becoming staggering.

I also think that the left is by and large unaware of how much damage it is doing with its hypocrisy. We've seen that recently with Democratic politicians in the US telling people to avoid family gatherings for Thanksgiving and Christmas, only to be caught themselves at large gatherings without masks. Also the blatant hypocrisy of cheering on the BLM protests while criticizing Trump rallies or other large gatherings is also a problem. You may think Trump and the Republicans are assholes for holding such large rallies, but at least they are not hypocrites about doing so. Flouting rules you expect other people to live by is much more dishonest than flouting rules that you are openly saying are nonsense.

NDPP

COVID Canada Update: 12/8/2020

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/

  • Alberta surpasses 20,000 active cases. Hinshaw 'more concerned than ever'
  • More than 2,000 more cases of COVID-19 recorded in BCV over the weekend
  • Can employers force you to get a COVID-19 vaccine? (No)
NDPP

COVID-19 Pandemic LIVE: World Map/Count

https://youtu.be/NMre6IAAAiU

12/8/2020 (Updating)

NDPP

WATCH: "If you're wondering what life is like in Australia...pretty much back to normal. Thanks to decisive actions, lockdowns, mandatory international quarantine, and stringent contact tracing, the current number of active cases in the whole country (pop - 25 million)?

47".

https://twitter.com/AshleySpencer/status/1335140815371321344

In case it isn't obvious yet how badly Canada screwed this thing up.

Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:

COVID Canada Update: 12/8/2020

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/

  • Alberta surpasses 20,000 active cases. Hinshaw 'more concerned than ever'
  • More than 2,000 more cases of COVID-19 recorded in BCV over the weekend
  • Can employers force you to get a COVID-19 vaccine? (No)

And a huge drop in new cases in Ontario today. Somehow in its desire to pump up the pandemic and make poeple afraid CTV forgot to mention that.

NDPP

Actually they did. You just didn't bother to check. As is frequently obviously the case with your postings. Hardly  a 'huge' drop - 100 cases or so. And given the testing/tracking deficiencies it is a good rule of thumb to multiply these reported cases by 2 or 3 times.

'Ontario Reports single day dip in new COVID-19 cases with fewer than 1700 infections reported.'

kropotkin1951

I took part in this survey in May and received this link to the results. Fascinating look at what 400,000 of our 4.7 million people think about COVID measures and effects. Not a bad interactive tool. I would be really pleased to see them do another one now for comparison.

This dashboard shows results from the BC COVID-19 SPEAK survey in an interactive tool. The survey asked BC residents about their experience, knowledge and actions early in the COVID-19 pandemic. The results look at risk perception as well as any broader impacts of COVID-19. This includes social, economic, physical health, mental wellness and community resiliency.

Almost 400,000 British Columbians participated in the survey from May 12 to May 31, 2020. Results are available across BC and at regional levels. Thank you to everyone who participated in the survey! Above all, thank you for your continued efforts to help protect yourself and all British Columbians during COVID-19.

 

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/covid-19-su...

 

NDPP

"333 new COVID-19 cases in Ontario schools. And without a comprehensive testing and tracing program we don't even know how many more there are. The Minister loves to talk 'data points' but these are children and staff who care for them. Enough is enough."

https://twitter.com/maritstiles/status/1336340770614349824

NDPP

Military reservists preparing for possible deployment in Prairies as COVID-19 rates soar

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton-military-reservists-possible-pra...

"Reservists in Alberta training to deal with dying and dead in continuing [lack of] care facilities. Long-time Edmonton critical care physician Dr Noel Gibney said 'The military recognizes something that the provincial government doesn't - or maybe they recognize it , but they are not ready to actually admit that yet..."

 

Ontario plans for proof-of-vaccination cards as 1,676 new covid-19 cases reported

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-coronavirus-ontario-dece...

"...That will be very important for people to have, for travel purposes and perhaps work purposes...So yes, that will be essential for people to have..."

'Your papers please!'

NDPP

Australian State's 4-point plan to eliminate COVID-19 worked - but Alberta did the opposite

https://buff.ly/39SoR4f

"...The Australian state of Victoria, where the Grattan Institute is based and which has a population of 6.4 million, largely adopted the plan. It worked. As of yesterday, Victoria has gone 37 days without a single new case. No one was in intensive care with COVID-19. Indeed no one was hospitalized with the disease...

Effective today, the state government has eased restrictions, allowing private residences to have up to 30 visitors a day, increasing permissible public gatherings to 100 and easing masking rules. Private offices can bring back half of their employees. Nightclubs will be allowed to reopen. Duckett was one of the authors of a policy proposal published in September that argued the best way for governments to deal with Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is to aim for zero active cases, and take tough measures to get there and stay there..."

It can be done right. Just not here. Why?

NDPP

Cuba and COVID-19: Public Health, Science and Solidarity

https://youtu.be/lGYHwldJ_gY

"A global pandemic in a globalized world. Over one million people have died. What could have been done differently to save lives and livelihoods? In search of collective solutions and best practice, Dr Helen Jaffe and Dr Valia Rodriguez look to Cuba for valuable lessons."

It can be done right. Just not here. Why?

NDPP

Here's the unroll...

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1336617447864975361

"Summary: further evidence children and adults are equally susceptible to SARS CoV-2, and similarly likely to transmit. Schools have been a driver of the second wave in Europe, Canada and elsewhere..."

NDPP

Coronavirus Protocols as Tools of Repression

https://www.blackagendareport.com/coronavirus-protocols-tools-repression

"Whatever the scientific truths about coronavirus, state measures to control it, undoubtedly have great potential for justifying state repression and surveillance. A friend of mine remarked that 'it's beyond the Patriot Act authors' wildest dreams. In next week's BAR, I plan to look into the surveillance and censorship issues that arise as government moves to control both the virus and the public narratives about it.

NDPP

First COVID-19 Vaccines Will Arrive in Canada in Days Says Pfizer Canada President (and radio)

https://twitter.com/TheCurrentCBC/status/1337012230022451202

"Health Canada has approved the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, but challenges remain in getting it to those who need it, and reassuring the hesitant that it's safe. Matt Galloway talks to Pfizer Canada president Cole Pinnow."

NDPP

Ontario reports single day high of 1,983 new COVID-19 cases. There were 35 deaths, 24 in LTC homes. The Ministry of Education also reported 139 new cases that are school related: 111 students and 28 staff. 10 schools are currently closed because of the illness. Toronto teachers have called for a 2 week extension to the holiday break and asymptomatic testing of students. -  CBC -

Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:

Australian State's 4-point plan to eliminate COVID-19 worked - but Alberta did the opposite

https://buff.ly/39SoR4f

"...The Australian state of Victoria, where the Grattan Institute is based and which has a population of 6.4 million, largely adopted the plan. It worked. As of yesterday, Victoria has gone 37 days without a single new case. No one was in intensive care with COVID-19. Indeed no one was hospitalized with the disease...

Effective today, the state government has eased restrictions, allowing private residences to have up to 30 visitors a day, increasing permissible public gatherings to 100 and easing masking rules. Private offices can bring back half of their employees. Nightclubs will be allowed to reopen. Duckett was one of the authors of a policy proposal published in September that argued the best way for governments to deal with Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is to aim for zero active cases, and take tough measures to get there and stay there..."

It can be done right. Just not here. Why?

Australia's plan worked so well that once they beat the first wave in mid-April the disease came back even stronger in what was their winter time.

bekayne

Aristotleded24 wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Australian State's 4-point plan to eliminate COVID-19 worked - but Alberta did the opposite

https://buff.ly/39SoR4f

"...The Australian state of Victoria, where the Grattan Institute is based and which has a population of 6.4 million, largely adopted the plan. It worked. As of yesterday, Victoria has gone 37 days without a single new case. No one was in intensive care with COVID-19. Indeed no one was hospitalized with the disease...

Effective today, the state government has eased restrictions, allowing private residences to have up to 30 visitors a day, increasing permissible public gatherings to 100 and easing masking rules. Private offices can bring back half of their employees. Nightclubs will be allowed to reopen. Duckett was one of the authors of a policy proposal published in September that argued the best way for governments to deal with Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is to aim for zero active cases, and take tough measures to get there and stay there..."

It can be done right. Just not here. Why?

Australia's plan worked so well that once they beat the first wave in mid-April the disease came back even stronger in what was their winter time.

I'd take an Australian second wave over an Alberta second wave any day.

gabriel_sinduda gabriel_sinduda's picture

Now more than ever, please consider this.

Why Canadians should fight tooth and nail against proof-of-immunity cards
Here:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-pandemic-coronavirus-immunity-pa...

"...The introduction of immunity passports would create a formal, state-sanctioned opportunity for law enforcement to stop and question innocent individuals. For members of certain racialized groups, there would be an increased risk of police carding, something that is already a serious problem for Canadian communities of colour and First Nations peoples.

Civilian monitoring would also likely require electronic proof of immune status, using either a smart phone app or digitized health records. A breach or abuse of such a system would put the personal privacy of every Canadian at risk..."

 

 

 

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I agree that there are way too many problems with any such "proof of immunity" requirement. Obviously, it is a fairly severe infringement on privacy rights, as well as being unduly burdensome on disadvantaged groups and individuals. Beyond that, it is very unlikely to be successful. There will be well made counterfeit "Certificates of Vaccination" available on the street within a week of the of the official version being released. There will also have to be lots of exceptions, and fake "Exception Certificates" will therefore be trafficked.

In my opinion, we have to rely on self interest and common sense to convince enough people to accept vaccination. If we don't have enough social solidarity to do that, a bunch of laws and Certificates aren't going to solve the problem.

Pondering

I agree. We already get proof of vaccination card or paper when we get any vaccination so if it is required for a specific type of employment it can be requested but it has to be justified, like someone working with a vulnerable population. 

Aristotleded24

bekayne wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Australian State's 4-point plan to eliminate COVID-19 worked - but Alberta did the opposite

https://buff.ly/39SoR4f

"...The Australian state of Victoria, where the Grattan Institute is based and which has a population of 6.4 million, largely adopted the plan. It worked. As of yesterday, Victoria has gone 37 days without a single new case. No one was in intensive care with COVID-19. Indeed no one was hospitalized with the disease...

Effective today, the state government has eased restrictions, allowing private residences to have up to 30 visitors a day, increasing permissible public gatherings to 100 and easing masking rules. Private offices can bring back half of their employees. Nightclubs will be allowed to reopen. Duckett was one of the authors of a policy proposal published in September that argued the best way for governments to deal with Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, is to aim for zero active cases, and take tough measures to get there and stay there..."

It can be done right. Just not here. Why?

Australia's plan worked so well that once they beat the first wave in mid-April the disease came back even stronger in what was their winter time.

I'd take an Australian second wave over an Alberta second wave any day.

How was Australia's second wave any different than Alberta's when the second wave in Australia was much bigger? Are you okay with locking down to the point where covid skeptics are arrested over Facebook posts or choking anti-maskers?

Besides, if the point of lockdowns is to get rid of covid, if covid comes back doesn't that really show that it doesn't work? We've already had restrictions in the spring, most areas of the country have been under restrictions for weeks, and Western Europe has locked down a second time because of the second wave. How many more lockdowns are we going to have to go through?

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
I agree. We already get proof of vaccination card or paper when we get any vaccination so if it is required for a specific type of employment it can be requested but it has to be justified, like someone working with a vulnerable population.

The issue of health professionals having to be vaccinated for the flu (which is the only situation where I can see the ethical argument for mandatory vaccinations) has already been decided in court in favour of the worker's right to refuse.

NDPP

US CDC Director Robert Redfeld...

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1337227290053369856

"For the next 60 to 90 days, we're going to have more deaths per day than we had in 9/11."

Chilling.

NDPP

Dr John Campbell, Coronavirus Updates: 12/12/2020

Canadian Update

https://youtu.be/lm07s-9Pmec

 

Weekend Update

https://youtu.be/noaTw8a_5gQ

 

NDPP

Stop the Wave of Death - Repudiate the Policies of the Pandemic Profiteers!

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/12/12/pers-d12.html

"...The ruling class is attempting to blame workers for spreading the virus at home. However, the absence of systematic contact tracing is designed to cover up the spread at workplaces that remain open and unsafe...As it is doing nothing to save lives, the ruling class is also taking no action to address the massive social disaster facing tens of millions of people..."

Pondering

Aristotleded24 wrote:
Are you okay with locking down to the point where covid skeptics are arrested over Facebook posts or choking anti-maskers?  

Choking during an arrest is wrong regardless of the reason for arrest. 

The facebook post was organizing an event that is illegal so yes she was subject to arrest. 

Aristotleded24 wrote:
Besides, if the point of lockdowns is to get rid of covid, if covid comes back doesn't that really show that it doesn't work?

The point is not to get rid of Covid. Do you not understand the meaning of flattening the curve? 

lock·down

/ˈläkdoun/

Learn to pronounce

noun

NORTH AMERICAN

  1. the confining of prisoners to their cells, typically after an escape or to regain control during a riot.

    "the lockdown has been in effect since October 1983"

    • a state of isolation or restricted access instituted as a security measure.

      "the university is on lockdown and nobody has been able to leave"

I don't know of any democratic country or area that has had a lockdown. At no point have I been unable to leave my home. Public transportation has been kept open. 

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
The facebook post was organizing an event that is illegal so yes she was subject to arrest.

So when the problems of climate change and income inequality become acute and the government labels people protesting the impacts of both of them as enemies of the state, will you be okay with seeing activists arrested for Facebook posts organizing protests then? That will most likely be illegal.

Pondering wrote:
Do you not understand the meaning of flattening the curve?

Yes. It means the pandemic is drawn out longer than it needs to be, and over the long term it not only exposes more people to the negative aspects of social distancing but also to covid itself.

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