Coronavirus: what Canadians need to know

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NDPP

"Health workers are toiling in nightmarish conditions - the onslaught of COVID cases, more deaths than many might have seen otherwise in a decade or longer. For some, there's a next level hell: Seeing family members in the ICU. An Eric Boodnar must read.

https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1344367936182607877

Pondering

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Australia continues to prove that lockdowns work:

Quote:

Authorities in Australia’s New South Wales (NSW) have put about a quarter of a million people in Sydney’s northern beach suburbs into a strict lockdown and restricted gatherings across the rest of the city in a bid to contain a growing coronavirus outbreak.

NSW, which incorporates Sydney, recorded 30 new COVID-19 cases on Sunday, taking a cluster that emerged in Sydney’s northern beaches area to 70, with some cases still under investigation.

Until Wednesday, Australia had gone more than two weeks without any local transmission and had lifted most restrictions before Christmas. The outbreak in Australia’s most populous state prompted states and territories to reimpose border restrictions, sending holiday travel plans for thousands into chaos.

Sydney’s northern beach suburbs entered a strict lockdown on Saturday, with residents only permitted to leave their homes for five basic reasons: medical care, exercise, grocery shop, work or for compassionate care reasons.

But I thought the whole point of lockdown was to, if not eliminate the virus, drive it down low enough so that you can set up testing and tracing infrastructure that would find the virus quickly and stop it from spreading out of control. This is I think the third time a region of Australia has had to enter some form of lockdown to contain covid spread? Notice that these restrictions are far greater than anything we have experienced in Canada. If the lockdowns are so effective, why do we have to keep bringing them back?

Resurgences are expected. They are finding it quickly and locking down areas that have identified cases and leaving the rest of the country open. That is success. That is the best case scenario. The virus re-enters areas the same way it gets in in the first place. If it is identified quickly then the area where it was found is locked down so it won't spread through the community and to the rest of the country. Breakouts are going to occur regularly indefinitely. 

NDPP

3,300+ Cases in Ontario Today

https://twitter.com/imgrund/status/1344660840935514113

"As I just said: 'No matter how hard you scream, people don't listen..."

NDPP

Temp Workers, the unsung pandemic heroes who make and deliver our goods, should not be losing sleep - or their lives - over $14 an hour

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2020/12/28/temp-workers-the...

 

Province needs to call in the military again to help Ontario's long-term care homes, says health coalition head

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/12/30/province-needs-to-call-in...

"Measures taken to protect those in Ontario's long term care homes have been a failure and the military should once again be sent into the facilities says the executive director of the Ontario Health Coalition. Natalie Mehra said as the second wave of COVID-19 continues to ravage Ontario, the conditions inside the homes for the elderly are at an all time low..."

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Aristotleded24
earthquakefish

Which I measure to mean, all containment measures that infringe upon people, as being ineffective, and the collective good being harmed?  I can't argue with people who want lockdowns, it gets me too emotional, but it often leads me to the question, this is the life you want?

Covid impossible to contain: David Engelthaler former state epidemiologist for Arizona

earthquakefish

Culture matters, and surely it was before this coronavirus, but words can matter and I can't pretend to know what Leonard meant, and is more a spoken piece about life and risk: https://youtu.be/Ffz_8eXyfxU?t=3839

Yet I feel I see all he taught is being very missed now.

Aristotleded24

The one thing that stands out to me about the discussion with Engenthaler is the possibility that different strains infected different parts of the world, and that maybe it's the different strains, not the government responses, that played a big role in those outcomes.

earthquakefish

Im not measuring the efficacy of the vaccine, itself - but I notice something, the more people question, there is more that say it needs to be mandated.  I won't quickly place a needle into my arm, I don' trust.  The more, people push, even get to the point of trying to make an ethical case why it's okay to make two classes, immunity passports and on, only gives me more reason to question the motivation.  

The hesitancy exists in the draconian language, trying to steer.  I know very well my life, affects another, but do  I want a government ordering me, when they give me little reason to trust?  Do I want to listen to social media, who has lost any interest that is of an equal challenge to this, climate is still one, justice issues about race, gender are still there and exasperated?  Do I _trust_ them, this is safe?

earthquakefish

I have my answer;  I don't.

Aristotleded24

earthquakefish wrote:
Im not measuring the efficacy of the vaccine, itself - but I notice something, the more people question, there is more that say it needs to be mandated.  I won't quickly place a needle into my arm, I don' trust.  The more, people push, even get to the point of trying to make an ethical case why it's okay to make two classes, immunity passports and on, only gives me more reason to question the motivation.  

The hesitancy exists in the draconian language, trying to steer.  I know very well my life, affects another, but do  I want a government ordering me, when they give me little reason to trust?  Do I want to listen to social media, who has lost any interest that is of an equal challenge to this, climate is still one, justice issues about race, gender are still there and exasperated?  Do I _trust_ them, this is safe?

It goes to show how badly the PR around the vaccine has been handled. As British MP Desmond Swayne says, the way to sell the vaccine is to do a big press relase, say "horray the vaccine is here and we will be liberated," and have public officials sign up to take the shot. Instead they have insisted from the start that only a vaccine will allow life "back to normal." Then Dr. Tam said we will stil be doing masking and social distancing even with the vaccine. Okay, then what's the point? Furthermore, as you said, many people have questions about a vaccine that has been produced that quickly. Now there is actual serious talk about things like not being able to find a job, attend school, go to a concert or hockey game, or travel without the vaccine. That adds an element of implicit coercion. The only reason to take a vaccine is because you have decided that it is a benefit to your health. Even the public health argument of taking the vaccine for other people doesn't hold water. We know with at least one of the vaccines that it only prevents symptoms, which tells us nothing about the transmissibility. In other words, my taking the vaccine would have no impact on spreading it to other people. I certainly don't trust Patty Hadju's remarks that the vaccine won't be mandatory, the government would never come out and tell us if that was their plan anyways. Authorities have not done nearly enough to assure us that vaccination certificates won't be necessary as a condition of life.

Ironically enough, many people who agree with you and me on the point of mandatory vaccination and who have questions about the roll-out have said they will take the vaccine themselves once they have a chance. So it's ridiculous to lump anyone who questions what is happening as an anti-vaxxer.

Here is what I think is happening. I've been watching covid numbers in many places for months. In many parts of the world, the trajectory of new cases is downwards. I think many parts of the world are close to the point of herd immunity that would help to control the spread. There are a few other heterodox scientists who think the same way. Suppose that proposition is correct. Do you not think people in charge would also recognize that trend? I think the vaccine release is being timed to coincide with what would have otherwise been the transition from what with influenza would have been from a pandemic to a post-pandemic phase, in order for the vaccines to get credit for ending the pandemic.

Aristotleded24

Aristotleded24 wrote:
The one thing that stands out to me about the discussion with Engenthaler is the possibility that different strains infected different parts of the world, and that maybe it's the different strains, not the government responses, that played a big role in those outcomes.

For example, could it be that the strain that infected Australia in March is different from the strain that ravaged Melbourne from June to August?

JKR

earthquakefish wrote:

I can't argue with people who want lockdowns, it gets me too emotional, but it often leads me to the question, this is the life you want?

Do you actually think people want lockdowns? Nobody I know of likes lockdowns. I and everyone I know hates them but they feel we can't simply ignore Covid.

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:

earthquakefish wrote:

I can't argue with people who want lockdowns, it gets me too emotional, but it often leads me to the question, this is the life you want?

Do you actually think people want lockdowns? Nobody I know of likes lockdowns. I and everyone I know hates them but they feel we can't simply ignore Covid.

This right here is an example of the intransignce that anti-lockdowners like myself find so troubling, and is a false dichotomy. Nobody is arguing that covid shouldn't be dealt with, but we are are saying that maybe there is a better way. But you won't even listen and hear people out, it's just your way or the highway in terms of dealing with the pandemic.

I like this interview between TalkRadio host Dan Wootton and Labour MP Chris Bryant. I think it perfectly sums up the know-it-all attitude of lockdown supporters and how hostile they are to people who question their dogma, their intransigence, and the utter contempt they have for people who don't share their view. Wootton did an absolutely fantastic job here.

It reminds me how in the wake of 9/11, the attitude from the Bush Administration was that anyone who questioned its methods was with the enemy. That kind of thinking is not conducive to sovling any crisis, especially a crisis like covid where new data are constantly being revealed.

Pondering

Aristotleded24 wrote:

This right here is an example of the intransignce that anti-lockdowners like myself find so troubling, and is a false dichotomy. Nobody is arguing that covid shouldn't be dealt with, but we are are saying that maybe there is a better way. But you won't even listen and hear people out, it's just your way or the highway in terms of dealing with the pandemic.

It reminds me how in the wake of 9/11, the attitude from the Bush Administration was that anyone who questioned its methods was with the enemy. That kind of thinking is not conducive to sovling any crisis, especially a crisis like covid where new data are constantly being revealed.

We are listening. You have not provided this "other way" you speak of in the months you have been posting on this issue. 

The logic on this is very very simple. The virus is primarily passed human to human although it can be passed to animals and back to humans. There is no debate on that. There is no need to look farther than your own backyard. How is the hospital doing that you would have to go to if you were sick? Walk over there.  Ask the staff on duty what the workload is like and what they think about the need to reduce human to human contact. 

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
There is no need to look farther than your own backyard. How is the hospital doing that you would have to go to if you were sick? Walk over there.

Never mind that people here have actually done that and captured pictures of empty hospitals, overall Winnipeg hospitals are overwhelmed. That is why I think everyone in the city should do their best to avoid needing the hosptial system for at least the next year, because I fully expect the system to crack under the increasing deaths of despair from drug overdoses and rampant violence in the street that is coming.

JKR

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:

earthquakefish wrote:

I can't argue with people who want lockdowns, it gets me too emotional, but it often leads me to the question, this is the life you want?

Do you actually think people want lockdowns? Nobody I know of likes lockdowns. I and everyone I know hates them but they feel we can't simply ignore Covid.

This right here is an example of the intransignce that anti-lockdowners like myself find so troubling, and is a false dichotomy. Nobody is arguing that covid shouldn't be dealt with, but we are are saying that maybe there is a better way. But you won't even listen and hear people out, it's just your way or the highway in terms of dealing with the pandemic.

I like this interview between TalkRadio host Dan Wootton and Labour MP Chris Bryant. I think it perfectly sums up the know-it-all attitude of lockdown supporters and how hostile they are to people who question their dogma, their intransigence, and the utter contempt they have for people who don't share their view. Wootton did an absolutely fantastic job here.

It reminds me how in the wake of 9/11, the attitude from the Bush Administration was that anyone who questioned its methods was with the enemy. That kind of thinking is not conducive to sovling any crisis, especially a crisis like covid where new data are constantly being revealed.

I agree that new information should guide our response to Covid. Hopefully it continues to be. At the onset of the epidemic masks were considered non-essential but that changed when new information arrived.

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:
I agree that new information should guide our response to Covid. Hopefully it continues to be. At the onset of the epidemic masks were considered non-essential but that changed when new information arrived.

Except that excluding the fact that schools are now more open than before, it isn't. We're still cowering in fear and treating this thing as if it is the new plague rather than using the information that we have learned to deal with this in a more constructive, targeted way.

JKR

I think new information is being used. Hopefully vaccinations will greatly improve things.

NDPP

US Senate adjourns without passing $2,000 stimulus checks...

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/yAkXPgdmtiE

'No $2,000 checks! GOP Senate stops Trump's stimulus demands'

The American duopoly eagle is a bird of prey that flies on two right wings.

NDPP

3000+ new Ontario cases today.

NDPP

UK Coronavirus Variant Spreads Faster than Original Strain: Study

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1839530563947

"A new study from Imperial College London has found that the UK coronavirus variant is much more transmissible than the original strain. 'The variant is 'hugely' more transmissible and is spreading quickly across all age groups. We are seeing a massive increase in cases..."

NDPP

3300+ new Ontario cases today.

NDPP

COVID Canada Update: 1/4/2021

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/

  • Health experts urging quicker vaccine rollout as COVID-19 cases surge, doses sit in freezers
  • Pressure grows on Macron over French vaccine 'fiasco'
  • Boris Johnson orders new national covid lockdown for England
  • Japan posed for state of emergency as COVID-19 cases grow
  • One American dies from COVID-19 every 33 seconds as vaccine rollout hits snags
NDPP

Dr John Campbell, Coronavirus Update: 1/3/2021

https://youtu.be/4kXCz6W9050

"Vaccinations slow, new variant fast...'I must say I'm surprised at Canada, I thought Canada would be better.."

Update: 1/4/2021

https://youtu.be/M3kQoyCCCLmY

Good news on reinfection/immunity - likely to be long-lived.

Aristotleded24

earthquakefish wrote:
Do I want to listen to social media, who has lost any interest that is of an equal challenge to this, climate is still one, justice issues about race, gender are still there and exasperated?  Do I _trust_ them, this is safe?

Speaking of climate,

The average low temperature in Winnipeg for this time of year is about minus 24 degrees. If I think hard enough, I can probably easily count on one hand the number of days this winter that we have experienced temperatures below minus twenty. Furthermore, we are currently in a stretch of weather seeing temperatures above freezing. Normal high for this time of year approximately minus 13 degrees. Temperatures in the negative single digits are considered warm, never mind temperatures above freezing. Pre-pandemic, this would have made headlines in the news. With everything about covid, not so much of a peep. I'm far more scared of the impact of these temperature trends than I am of the coronavirus, because even long after the pandemic ends, these temperature trends will still be a threat that needs to be dealt with.

We saw more people show an interest in gardening this past year because of the pandemic. Is anyone else interested in taking it up? It's a worthwhile endeavour, because you may not only help feed yourself and the community but also remove dangerous carbon from the air.

NDPP

Step Away from the Spin and Look at the Facts: Everything's Not OK

https://twitter.com/DrJacobRad/status/1346334091927564288

"COVID-19 numbers are rising. Borders remain open. There's no national testing system. There are insufficient doses to vaccinate our LTC residents. Businesses are dying. Children's education is being stifled. Everything's not OK."

And Canada's vaccination rate trails behind the US, UK and most of the 'advanced' countries in the Western world.

 

NDPP

UK Scientists Warning Vaccines May Not Protect Against Coronavirus Variant Found in South Africa

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-south-africa-variant-1.5...

"UK scientists expressed concern on Monday that COVID-19 vaccines being rolled out in Britain may not be able to protect against a new variant of the coronavirus that emerged in South Africa and has spread internationally. Both Britain and South Africa have detected new more transmissible variants of the COVID-19 causing virus in recent weeks that have driven a surge in cases. British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Monday he was now very worried about the variant identified in South Africa..."

NDPP

Ontario Reports 3,270 new COVID-19 Cases as Hospitalizations Near 1,200

https://twitter.com/CBCNews/status/1346350834540544004

"Health officials said three new cases of the coronavirus are either linked to travel or a close contact of someone who has travelled."

Yes, let's add to an already grossly incompentent Canadian COVID-19 public health strategy by encourging even more transmission of the virulent and highly transmissible new variants via our continuing uncontrolled air travel to and from international destinations.

NDPP

"The LA County EMS has directed ambulance crews not to transport patients with little chance of survival to hospitals and to conserve the use of oxygen."

https://twitter.com/Pervaizistan/status/1346283751861608449

American public healthcare in wall to wall Democrat-run California. La-la land no longer. Coming soon to a Canadian city/hospital near you?

NDPP

"Are you ready to see hell breaking loose? It's already started but will become undeniable soon. We're about to leave the 3K/day behind and move on to the next level of horror. The climb will be faster than ever. Watch the UK for a preview. And remember this the next time you vote."

https://twitter.com/DGBassani/status/1345960128026210304

[email protected]

Pondering

Thanks for all the info you bring here NDPP.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Pondering wrote:

Thanks for all the info you bring here NDPP.

Yes, it is very useful.

NDPP

You're welcome!

NDPP

Nearly 50 percent of Canadians visited with family, friends outside household over holidays

https://twitter.com/SharkawyMD/status/1346481019151659008

"Ontario flirting with 10% positivity, 200+ outbreaks in LTC. 40+deaths/d already, 5K cases/day in sight. Field hospitals being built. Surgeries canceled. Was it worth it? How long will we add kindling to the fire?"

Aristotleded24
Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:
Nearly 50 percent of Canadians visited with family, friends outside household over holidays

Good for them. I hope these people enjoyed themselves.

NDPP

Unfortunately, given the current rate of infection and transmission, for some it could be 'eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die...'

3519 new Ontario COVID-19 cases today, 89 deaths.

It is also now being reported that 1 in 5 Ontario children under 13 tests positive for COVID.

NDPP

Chomsky & Prashad: Three Major Threats to Life that We Must Address in 2021

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56144.html

"Large parts of the world - outside of China and a few other countries - face a runaway virus, which has not been stopped because of criminal incompetence by governments.

That these governments in wealthy countries cynically set aside the basic scientific protocols released by the World Health Organization and by scientific organizations reveals their malicious practice. Anything less than focused attention to managing the virus by testing, contact tracing and isolation - and if this does not suffice, then imposing a temporary lockdown is foolhardy.

It is equally distressing that these richer countries have pursued a policy of 'vaccine nationalism' by stockpiling vaccine candidates rather than a policy for the creation of a 'people's vaccine'..."

 

NDPP

Canada's Overwhelmed Contact Tracing Efforts Have Been A Gross Failure

https://twitter.com/picardonhealth/status/1347342478483939329

"Remember when Canada used to do effective contact-tracing? Of course you don't, it's been a gross failure..."

Aristotleded24

Meanwhile the Atlantic provinces continue in their successes to stamp out the coronavirus:

Quote:
There are 24 new cases of COVID-19 in New Brunswick, outbreaks at two more long-term care facilities and 836 people in isolation across the province, either because they have respiratory disease or may have been exposed to a positive case, the chief medical officer of health announced Thursday.

"The current situation is the worst we have seen so far during this pandemic," said Dr. Jennifer Russell.

"The fact that we have multiple outbreaks happening around the province and multiple vulnerable settings is unique. We haven't faced this situation before."

I thought the Atlantic provinces were a model to follow, that they got rid of the virus? What happened? Did anyone on the East Coast honestly believe that a respiratory virus would not come back in the winter?

NDPP

More drivel from our resident 'free the covid!'  lobbyist.  While other respiratory viruses tend to be seasonal coronavirus is year-round. Warm environments make little difference as will be obvious to all but the most obtuse observer.

Brazil COVID Deaths Surpass 200,000

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-07/brazil-covid-deaths-p...

"Country registered almost 88,000 new cases on Thursday. Infection has picked up speed."

NDPP

How does Canada's COVID-19 Vaccine Rollout Compare to other Countries?

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/how-does-canada-s-covid-19-vac...

"...Dr Sumon Chakrabarti, an infectious disease physician in Mississauga Ont, says Canada's vaccination efforts - somwhere around 10th in the world in doses given per population after Wednesday - 'absolutely needs to improve'. Chakrabarti and other experts agree there may be lessons from how other countries have approached the vaccination rollout..."

earthquakefish

Aristotleded24 wrote:

With Quebec going into curfew, this will be the reality across Canada very soon

 

I won't contribute into this topic often, I have my own life to live.

There is time for people to see, if 1% vulnerable and are vaccinated, trusting the vaccine works - then these restrictions can be lifted very quickly. Which would bring back Fords argument, creating an iron wall against transmission in long term care, he would never do, while his government celebrates Mike Harris who now owns a massive interest in long term care homes.

I want to know, once this illness carries little risk, still support mandatory vaccination.

earthquakefish

And Quebec's mandate, while social workers decry not having room for homeless people, the Premier has the cognitive dissonance to say,  I believe there is enough shelters. Wouldn't those shelters, spread the severly contagious disease, and unlike many don't have means to seek shelter, isolation, in other avenues?  Which could actually stem infection?

There is too much cognitive dissonance going on in my opinion.. and I can say that with everyone wants to live a life in the way they pursue, or find themselves in.

 

Its shifting the responsobilty upon who they feel have no choice. A common theme in this culture. Imagine yourself, falling ill, nowhere to go during this time, being placed in a space you may infect others.  Brilliant plan. There is many homeless people now avoiding shelters for that reason.

NDPP

Canada's management of the COVID-19 pandemic problem has been nothing but chaos, confusion, mendacity and contradictions. There should be an independent citizens inquiry into its handling and the criminal negligence/incompetence of our politicians, who have been responsible for immeasurable harm to all Canadians but especially those most vulnerable and in most need. A shameful episode in a history already quite full of such atrocities.

earthquakefish

NDPP wrote:
  I agree with that. I do feel at some point we need to open to the idea this is with us and we can't live this way.

Canada's management of the COVID-19 pandemic problem has been nothing but chaos, confusion, mendacity and contradictions. There should be an independent citizens inquiry into its handling and the criminal negligence/incompetence of our politicians, who have been responsible for immeasurable harm to all Canadians but especially those most vulnerable and in most need. A shameful episode in a history already quite full of such atrocities.

NDPP

 If it wasn't for the political slapheads currently mishandling this awful thing, we wouldn't have to. Unfortunately Canadians aren't known for forcing change from their very well-paid politicians and without more stick and less carrots to motivate them to do better, little is likely to change.

 

Yes, Millions of People are Living a Relatively Normal, Coronavirus-Free Life

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/yes-millions-of-people-are-liv...

"CTV News spoke with a dozen people experiencing a far different pandemic life and took a snapshot - by no means an exhaustive look - of what is happening in other parts of the world..."

NDPP

Re: #2196

Group Urges Leniency For Gatineau's Homeless as Curfew Nears

https://twitter.com/CBCNews/status/1347392596193239046

"Anyone in Quebec outside between 8 pm and 5 am face a hefty fine, with very few exceptions. Homelessness is not one of them."

WTF?!!

[email protected]

NDPP

Breaking: Elementary schools in southern Ontario will be closed for an additional 2 weeks - until January 25 as the province [finally] looks to get a handle on the rapid spread of COVID-19

https://twitter.com/SharkawyMD/status/134728740929424

"This is the right decision and fully expect this to be extended into February given current trends, realisitic projections. Very disappointing results on many levels, especially for families with fewer resources, but this was inevitable."

Doug Ford: Delay-deny-dissemble.

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