Coronavirus: what Canadians need to know

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Sean in Ottawa

epaulo13 wrote:

Media release: Nova Scotians need paid sick days without the requirement of a doctor’s note

Preparing for cases of COVID-19 in Nova Scotia, the Halifax Workers’ Action Centre (Halifax-WAC) is calling for paid sick leave for all employees along with legislation to prohibit employers from requesting doctors’ notes to confirm absences due to illness.

“Workers should not have to choose between staying home and losing a day of pay, or going to work sick,” said Jason Edwards, organizer with the Halifax-WAC. “Everyone benefits when sick workers stay home and get well: employers, coworkers, and taxpayers. Encouraging sick workers to stay home is good public policy.”

Currently, Nova Scotia’s Labour Standards Code does not guarantee any paid sick leave to employees, nor is there any statutory regulation around employers requesting medical documentation.

“Requiring workers to obtain medical notes burdens the unwell employee and the medical system,” said Edwards. “Unless an employer has reason to believe that an employee or their family member is not sick or injured, the employer should not be allowed to require a doctor’s note.”.....

No kidding -- not just for the sick workers only: requiring sick notes means burdening the health system and sharing illness in medical sites as well as at work.

Sean in Ottawa

This news should colour everything.

In the United Stupid of America the President has decided to classify all top level discussions realted to Covid 19. This is remarkably effective in helping insulate the regime from science. Military and security people can attend. Since experts mostly cannot. This has never been invoked for a public health emergency.

Sean in Ottawa

By colour everything -- I mean there should no longer be comparisons between the pathological insanity of Trump and the decline of Biden. 

The US by making these deliberations secret allows three things

1)  the US to hide the truth from the public - this allows political manipulation

2) it significantly excludes science

3) it deprives the world of any shared knowledge that could contrirbute to best practices (what to do and what to avoid) for management of the disease.

This has not been done before for a public health crisis.

A person in a coma would be a better candidate for President of the US when you consider the implications here --  so long as there were some people like those surrounding Trump around them.

In this context -- the Democrats who are moving to Sanders to end the division and fight Trump ought to be undeerstood as something other than just the establishment. Many are considering that the Trump Presidency is a slow-moving emergency. Trump is adding fuel to this perception daily. The US needs a Bernie revolution but it is facing a catastrophic President that only by luck has not done even more damage than he has.

This is the context of the Corona virus emergency we find ourselves in beside a country this far away from anything rational. 

Sean in Ottawa

Links to above issue:

One of the administration officials suggested the security clearances for meetings at HHS were imposed not to protect national security but to keep the information within a tight circle, to prevent leaks.

“It seemed to be a tool for the White House - for the NSC - to keep participation in these meetings low,” the official said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive/exclusive-white-house-told-federal-health-agency-to-classify-coronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM

The parallels are inescapable. Trump’s authoritarian instincts were on full display in his latest White House event on the coronavirus. When he speaks, he seeks not to inform but to manipulate. He obfuscates, deflects and blames those who are revealing unpleasant truths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/04/trumps-coronavirus-response-puts-his-authoritarian-instincts-full-view/

Pence indicated that the Trump campaign had not ruled out future campaign rallies and signaled he and the president would not stop shaking hands in the interim.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486911-pence-says-he-and-trump-will-continue-to-shake-hands-despite

NDPP

WHO Declares Novel Coronavirus Disease A Pandemic (and vid)

https://globalnews.ca/news/6660863/who-coronavirus-pandemic/

"The World Health Organization ha officially declared the outbreak of novel coronavirus disease, COVID-19, a pandemic. WHO director-general Dr Tedron Adhanom Ghebreyesus made the announcement at a press conference Wednesday..."

 

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

WHO Declares Novel Coronavirus Disease A Pandemic (and vid)

https://globalnews.ca/news/6660863/who-coronavirus-pandemic/

"The World Health Organization ha officially declared the outbreak of novel coronavirus disease, COVID-19, a pandemic. WHO director-general Dr Tedron Adhanom Ghebreyesus made the announcement at a press conference Wednesday..."

 

The WHO criticized countries for their inaction.

MegB

iyraste1313 you have twice been warned about posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. When you do that you compromise the integrity of the thread, so I can't promote it elsewhere on the site. You obviously don't care much about veracity of information so I'm removing the problem. You. I'm banning you.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The 'President' is freaking out over this virus. Not because he cares for Americans (his groupies included)

He just cares about himself, his money, (Ivanka), his election coming up amd RATINGS. If you don't believe the last part, check out the Orange Turd's press conference with the CDC.

He's a fucking idiot. Trump (through a press release from Race Bannon....I mean Mike Pence) has said he will continue shaking hands. His sycophant Pence says he'll do like Master.

I very much would like them to continue that. There are chances they will come down with this virus. And seeing how obese and old Trump is, it would be his demise and it will be a wonderful day.

jerrym

In further proof that Trump doesn't give a damn about his own followers, although none was needed, he announced a new rally in Wisconsin on the same day Sanders and Biden discontined theirs in Ohio because of the risk to attendees from the Covid-19 virus. 

President Donald Trump's reelection campaign announced Tuesday that he will hold an event with supporters in Milwaukee the same day Democrats Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Vice President Joe Biden announced they were canceling events in Ohio out of concern for public health amid the coronavirus outbreak

Trump has privately insisted that there be no changes to his schedule, despite warnings from health officials about large gatherings as the virus has spread throughout the United States. He said Tuesday that the public should "stay calm" because the coronavirus will "go away," though officials on the Sanders and Biden campaigns said they were acting on advice from public officials who were worried about convening big crowds during the outbreak. 

Trump will launch the "Catholics for Trump" coalition on March 19 at the Wisconsin Center. It will be a "large campaign event," campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told CNN when asked if it was fair to characterize the coalition rollout as a rally. Initially a person familiar said the campaign would announce a rally Tuesday, not a "campaign event." ...

In an op-ed in The Washington Post, Trump's former homeland security adviser Tom Bossert is one of several officials who have discouraged large gatherings, to help mitigate the spread of the virus. 

"School closures, isolation of the sick, home quarantines of those who have come into contact with the sick, social distancing, telework and large-gathering cancellations must be implemented before the spread of the disease in any community reaches 1 percent," Bossert wrote.

Some people around Trump, including his former acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, have fed his belief that the media is exaggerating reports about the coronavirus in order to damage him politically. 

Rush Limbaugh, a close ally of Trump's, claimed on his radio show that Democrats want Trump to stop holding rallies "not because of public safety, not because of public health" but to hurt the President. 

"If you can't beat Trump and if you want to stop the appearance of excitement about the Trump campaign, then stop the rallies," Limbaugh said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/politics/donald-trump-campaign-rally-coro...

NDPP

MegB wrote:

iyraste1313 you have twice been warned about posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. When you do that you compromise the integrity of the thread, so I can't promote it elsewhere on the sight. You obviously don't care much about veracity of information so I'm removing the problem. You. I'm banning you.

NDPP wrote:

I do not approve of this banning. 'Unsubtantiated conspiracy theories' abound on this site. Why are those such as 'Russiagate' permitted and others unreported in the Guardian or New York Times denounced? This is thought-policing that has been proven wrong in the past eg 'Arab Spring' and should not be repeated. Please reconsider the ban.

JKR

Fox News buried the story about the WTO declaring an epidemic! They also buried the story about the Dow losing over 1400 points today! You have to scroll way down their home page to find a story titled “Dow closes down over 1,400 points in volatile session amid virus pandemic.” Their lead story was about the Trump administration's anti Mexican immigrants policies! It's incredible how much harm Fox News has caused the US!

MegB

NDPP wrote:

MegB wrote:

iyraste1313 you have twice been warned about posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. When you do that you compromise the integrity of the thread, so I can't promote it elsewhere on the sight. You obviously don't care much about veracity of information so I'm removing the problem. You. I'm banning you.

NDPP wrote:

I do not approve of this banning. 'Unsubtantiated conspiracy theories' abound on this site. Why are those such as 'Russiagate' permitted and others unreported in the Guardian or New York Times denounced? This is thought-policing that has been proven wrong in the past eg 'Arab Spring' and should not be repeated. Please reconsider the ban.

We're cracking down on misinformation here. The ban stays.

Sean in Ottawa

JKR wrote:

Fox News buried the story about the WTO declaring an epidemic! They also buried the story about the Dow losing over 1400 points today! You have to scroll way down their home page to find a story titled “Dow closes down over 1,400 points in volatile session amid virus pandemic.” Their lead story was about the Trump administration's anti Mexican immigrants policies! It's incredible how much harm Fox News has caused the US!

How correct you are. The right having already had a media biased to a degree in their favour (the degree being the bias of ownership from wealthy companies), declared that bias not sufficient and labeled the mainstream as left and went to the fringe to create a whole new reality redefining the "centre" far to the right of the centre of the population. Today, Trump and his followers call mainstream conservative media outlets leftist.

The same thing has been happening in Canada. In the 1970s and 80s the Globe was to the right and the Star centre or slightly to the left. No media was as far left as the NDP. This has been redefined as the Globe to the left, the Star the far left, Sun to the centre and new fringe extreme right as the right. Increasingly the right, even in Canada, is being defined as the extreme right of the US and the rest of the right there and here as, at best, centre, if not left.

This ability for people to choose a universe of their own for news allows people to live in these alternate realities.

Today, you see people on the right furious in response to "leftists" being allowed a say in anything -- even when those "leftists" are actually very Conservative but just not as fanatical.

This is very dangerous, as large proportions of the fringe population have no clue where the centre is and do not accept that they are on the fringe. From this standpoint they bully the centre with language like left and socialist to move other Conservatives to the right wing fringe. They move closer to condoning extreme measures to combat the left (that is in fact the rest of the population). This is nothing short of a collapse of any shared reality for a wider population. This was begun a generation ago with the advent of right of centre networks replacing the mainstream and people watching them increasingly forget they were to the right and seeing their vision as centre, Later it has been fueled by social media and increasingly extreme scoail commentary. 

I want to say that this initial tendency is not just on the right. People on the left often do not accept their position on the continuum. They have long described the mainstream centre as right wing when it reflected the positions of the median of political views in Canada. We should not compete with the right by enabling the same behaiour. Instead, we should be as disciplined as possible in defining where we are in terms of the actual median of opinion. This allows us to be more realistic and strategic about messages and be in a better position to call out distortions coming from the right that we cannot hope to compete with on the same terms.

This allows us to distinguish the difference between when more work needs to be done to shift public opinion from when political developments do not match public opinion and more political work is required. We cannot expect politics in a democratic system (even an imperfect one) to do anything more than reflect the median of opinion as democracy requires (at best). To that end we have to know where that median is in order to concentrate efforts appropriately.

In Canada the mainstream left party, the NDP, for example is probalby closer to a global centre but it is not Canada's centre. Even those who locate themselves left of the NDP should not define it as right - even if it is right of themselves. Fact is, that it is okay to be left of centre. We do not have to falsely argue that the centre is not where it really is. That places us at disadvantage. It is still possible to argue that the world is right of where it should be and therefore that the centre of the world is righter than we are without giving up either a hold on reality or a political position. The game the right is playing now is one the left has tried and failed at. The left does not have the persuasive power of the funded communications of the right to compete in fantasies. At best we just might succeed in an argument on behalf of reality if we show discipline to advocate for it.

Sean in Ottawa

MegB wrote:

NDPP wrote:

MegB wrote:

iyraste1313 you have twice been warned about posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. When you do that you compromise the integrity of the thread, so I can't promote it elsewhere on the sight. You obviously don't care much about veracity of information so I'm removing the problem. You. I'm banning you.

NDPP wrote:

I do not approve of this banning. 'Unsubtantiated conspiracy theories' abound on this site. Why are those such as 'Russiagate' permitted and others unreported in the Guardian or New York Times denounced? This is thought-policing that has been proven wrong in the past eg 'Arab Spring' and should not be repeated. Please reconsider the ban.

We're cracking down on misinformation here. The ban stays.

I think that misinformation is increasingly dangerous now - both to the safety of people and to advocacy of points of view.

There has been a trend in many places that responders to conspiracy theories spend their time refuting those theories. Proving a negative is harder than making an unsubstantiated allegation. This puts all the resources of the writers here into responding to conspiracies.

I do not argue that theories should absolutely not be posted. My complaint has been about these being presented as objective proven fact. A person who once in a while says I heard this, I do not know if it is true is not in the same category as one who posts breathless statements of wild conspiracies as objective fact and does so at a rate that cannot be responded to is in another category. The theory presented as a theory can be ignored by those uninterested but it is harder to ignore when the poster screeches his demands that these wild ideas be accepted as fact. 

This site was built for people to come here with alternate progressive opinions and to share news that is somewhat credible. Having this site blown over by alternative facts and conspiracies to the point that this has crowded out alternative opinions about a somewhat agreed reality is repelling people.

I do wonder if it would be possible to have a new section for out-there theories -- call it long-shot reality or somehow identify it as a clearing house for wild theories. This kept away from the main political threads and labeled for those who want to discuss them. Perhaps this could allow some tolerance to explore those ideas without polluting the whole site with speculation about alternative realities. Maybe people who post this stuff could be offered to delete and move the comment there. It will not satisfy those wanting to present fantasy as fact but it would allow people who want to explore something unproven in a place that does not derail the rest of the site requiring others to advocate for reality.

It is possible that such a compromise will satisfy nobody but it might offer some alternatives to banning and outlets for those who want to post this somewhere without attacking the reality of the whole site or diminishing all threads. It can also offer the promise that if a thread started as outlandish and did get proof the moderator could move the thread to the mainstream sections for further discussion. It might make the site better and still not bring the suggestion of censorship.

Still, I have to support the action taken and offer this idea as an alternative. The previous status quo was not sustainable in a site that wanted to attract audience of progressive people.

NDPP

Nonsense. This site has a history of supporting almost every 'unproven' establishment 'conspiracy theory' there is. And will continue to do so I'm sure.

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Nonsense. This site has a history of supporting almost every 'unproven' establishment 'conspiracy theory' there is. And will continue to do so I'm sure.

Try this for a moment: "We disagree."  Calling my position nonsense is an ironic position for you while you are claiming the mantle of tolerance of differences of fact. My position is an opinion and there should be more leeway for differences of opinion than there is for unsupported claims to proven fact. My position - that you called nonsense - only objected to wild conspiracy claims being presented as proven fact -- not them being here at all. 

When it comes to conspiracy theories about the corona virus these have increasingly taken on racist hues as they seek to blame or declare intentional events as actions of groups of people or countries -- without credible supporting evidence. These theories are increasingly being weaponized south of the border in racist terms and the conspiracies put on this site have been used in that context. It is not too much to require people posting wild theories to not scream that they are proven and to not repost varients of them almost daily requiring others to spend time disproving them or leave the statements that they are proven unchallenged.

And no this site does not have to "support" every unproven conspiracy theory at the cost of being able to allow discussions about opinions. This site has shown a willingness to indulge presentation of these theories when they are less frequent and when they are not presented such that they overwhelm threads so nothing else can be discussed or when they are mispresented as a proven or consensus opinon. This site has not indulged conspiracy theories to be used to shout down anyone who does not share a particular agenda.

This site also has a history of trying to prevent racism here. These conspiracy theories that are being objected to are increasingly used to justify racist positions even if those positions are not taken up here. Many requests have been made to have them not labeled as fact and they have been ignored. 

Paladin1

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

You have got to be fucking kidding.

'

Yup I was.

I agree with you. It's a huge deal. People saying "but the common cold" or "but the flu" aren't grasphing how dangerous this can be. Costco in Ottawa the other day was fucked, and that's before they started having confirmed cases.

 

Canadians aren't used to national level (or even provincial level) emergencies that see wide scale panic and hording. People's fears feed off each other. I've gor 4 months and a week worth of comfortable living supplies and I'd like to get that up to 8 or 9.

Sean in Ottawa

Paladin1 wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

You have got to be fucking kidding.

'

Yup I was.

I agree with you. It's a huge deal. People saying "but the common cold" or "but the flu" aren't grasphing how dangerous this can be. Costco in Ottawa the other day was fucked, and that's before they started having confirmed cases.

 

Canadians aren't used to national level (or even provincial level) emergencies that see wide scale panic and hording. People's fears feed off each other. I've gor 4 months and a week worth of comfortable living supplies and I'd like to get that up to 8 or 9.

Ok thanks. And sorry for misinterpreting your comment as serious. It is hard to read sarcasm here given how wild some comments are.

Interestingly it is Costco customers suddenly seeking to stock up. These are the people who already have pantries full of stuff. The most irrational people on this seem to have the most money. Perhaps it is becuase they can affrod to be irrational.

I think one reason for the panic is that governments around the world seem to be doing exactly what they needed to be doing -- a month before. The planning seems so obviously over-studied and out-of-date that it goves little confidence. This week we are stopping air travel from Italy. This only compounds the fear as people say "holy shit you mean they were landing last week -- why?????" This week we should be saying that we need a 14 day quarantine from any country not handling this apporpriately or where it is out of control. Yes, that means the US.

Canada is behainvg perfectly in many respects except far too slowly and as if the experience of others is not being applied. The US is simply insane. Canada has articulated no plan to address the fact that we are beside the country with the worst response to the crisis in the world. Imagine a President who comes in contact with others who may have been infected but does not get a test and continues to shake hands as does his VP who is supposed ot be the lead in the country. .... No point repeating the stupid action sof the US -- the list would be out of date in half an hour. Canada needs a plan to deal with this.

Canada has widespread TP panic but has not instituted drive-through testing (cuts the labour and cleaning cost, speeds the process up and reduces risk. Now we are talking about it. WTF -- other countries are doing it. How much conversation do we need?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

jerrym wrote:

In further proof that Trump doesn't give a damn about his own followers, although none was needed, he announced a new rally in Wisconsin on the same day Sanders and Biden discontined theirs in Ohio because of the risk to attendees from the Covid-19 virus. 

President Donald Trump's reelection campaign announced Tuesday that he will hold an event with supporters in Milwaukee the same day Democrats Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Vice President Joe Biden announced they were canceling events in Ohio out of concern for public health amid the coronavirus outbreak

Trump has privately insisted that there be no changes to his schedule, despite warnings from health officials about large gatherings as the virus has spread throughout the United States. He said Tuesday that the public should "stay calm" because the coronavirus will "go away," though officials on the Sanders and Biden campaigns said they were acting on advice from public officials who were worried about convening big crowds during the outbreak. 

Trump will launch the "Catholics for Trump" coalition on March 19 at the Wisconsin Center. It will be a "large campaign event," campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told CNN when asked if it was fair to characterize the coalition rollout as a rally. Initially a person familiar said the campaign would announce a rally Tuesday, not a "campaign event." ...

In an op-ed in The Washington Post, Trump's former homeland security adviser Tom Bossert is one of several officials who have discouraged large gatherings, to help mitigate the spread of the virus. 

"School closures, isolation of the sick, home quarantines of those who have come into contact with the sick, social distancing, telework and large-gathering cancellations must be implemented before the spread of the disease in any community reaches 1 percent," Bossert wrote.

Some people around Trump, including his former acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, have fed his belief that the media is exaggerating reports about the coronavirus in order to damage him politically. 

Rush Limbaugh, a close ally of Trump's, claimed on his radio show that Democrats want Trump to stop holding rallies "not because of public safety, not because of public health" but to hurt the President. 

"If you can't beat Trump and if you want to stop the appearance of excitement about the Trump campaign, then stop the rallies," Limbaugh said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/politics/donald-trump-campaign-rally-coro...

Limbaugh can't die fast enough.

Let Donnie keep doing his rallies at this time. It's the perfect storm. and like Jonesville they will follow their Master into death. Maybe Americans would finally wake the fuck up to the fact the'Conservative' movement is a billionaire class SCAM!

 

NDPP

Coronavirus - The Hidden Cases - Why We Must Shut Everything Down and Do It Now

https://t.co/FR3G3koryu?amp=1

"The powers that be in our 'western' societies have decided to do nothing significant against the onslaught the novel coronavirus SARS-Cov-2 is now causing. There will not ever be an attempt to do like China and South Korea which have thrown all resources at stopping the spread of the virus while it was still possible. The 'west' now seems to be beyond that point.

The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson floated the idea to 'take it on the chin' - i.e. to do nothing to soften the blow the epidemic will cause. Chancellor Angela Merkel in Germany told her parliamentary group that 60-70% of all Germans will catch the virus. Most of them will fall ill with the Covid-19 disease the virus causes. At a 1% death rate this means that more than 500,000 Germans will die from it. Merkel did not say how she would try to prevent that.  So far, little was done by her administration to stop a further public spreading of the disease.

The Donald Trump administration has done its best to prevent an early detection of the outbreak in Washington State and likely also elsewhere. Communists will shut down a city to prevent a deadly epidemic from going exponential. Our neo-liberal leaders only started to care when the Dow Jones went down. Don't expect them to call for a shut-down as that will cost their donors some money. As mostly elderly people will die they are probably calculating how much money the pension funds will save..."

Sean in Ottawa

alan smithee wrote:

jerrym wrote:

In further proof that Trump doesn't give a damn about his own followers, although none was needed, he announced a new rally in Wisconsin on the same day Sanders and Biden discontined theirs in Ohio because of the risk to attendees from the Covid-19 virus. 

President Donald Trump's reelection campaign announced Tuesday that he will hold an event with supporters in Milwaukee the same day Democrats Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Vice President Joe Biden announced they were canceling events in Ohio out of concern for public health amid the coronavirus outbreak

Trump has privately insisted that there be no changes to his schedule, despite warnings from health officials about large gatherings as the virus has spread throughout the United States. He said Tuesday that the public should "stay calm" because the coronavirus will "go away," though officials on the Sanders and Biden campaigns said they were acting on advice from public officials who were worried about convening big crowds during the outbreak. 

Trump will launch the "Catholics for Trump" coalition on March 19 at the Wisconsin Center. It will be a "large campaign event," campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told CNN when asked if it was fair to characterize the coalition rollout as a rally. Initially a person familiar said the campaign would announce a rally Tuesday, not a "campaign event." ...

In an op-ed in The Washington Post, Trump's former homeland security adviser Tom Bossert is one of several officials who have discouraged large gatherings, to help mitigate the spread of the virus. 

"School closures, isolation of the sick, home quarantines of those who have come into contact with the sick, social distancing, telework and large-gathering cancellations must be implemented before the spread of the disease in any community reaches 1 percent," Bossert wrote.

Some people around Trump, including his former acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, have fed his belief that the media is exaggerating reports about the coronavirus in order to damage him politically. 

Rush Limbaugh, a close ally of Trump's, claimed on his radio show that Democrats want Trump to stop holding rallies "not because of public safety, not because of public health" but to hurt the President. 

"If you can't beat Trump and if you want to stop the appearance of excitement about the Trump campaign, then stop the rallies," Limbaugh said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/politics/donald-trump-campaign-rally-coro...

Limbaugh can't die fast enough.

Let Donnie keep doing his rallies at this time. It's the perfect storm. and like Jonesville they will follow their Master into death. Maybe Americans would finally wake the fuck up to the fact the'Conservative' movement is a billionaire class SCAM!

 

There is no credible way to make sure that only right-wing true believers in Trump get sick. The Canada US border is also fairly pourous. Don't call for the continuation of the rallies as something that will only kill the stupid.

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Coronavirus - The Hidden Cases - Why We Must Shut Everything Down and Do It Now

https://t.co/FR3G3koryu?amp=1

"The powers that be in our 'western' societies have decided to do nothing significant against the onslaught the novel coronavirus SARS-Cov-2 is now causing. There will not ever be an attempt to do like China and South Korea which have thrown all resources at stopping the spread of the virus while it was still possible. The 'west' now seems to be beyond that point.

The British Prime Minister Boris Johnson floated the idea to 'take it on the chin' - i.e. to do nothing to soften the blow the epidemic will cause. Chancellor Angela Merkel in Germany told her parliamentary group that 60-70% of all Germans will catch the virus. Most of them will fall ill with the Covid-19 disease the virus causes. At a 1% death rate this means that more than 500,000 Germans will die from it. Merkel did not say how she would try to prevent that.  So far, little was done by her administration to stop a further public spreading of the disease.

The Donald Trump administration has done its best to prevent an early detection of the outbreak in Washington State and likely also elsewhere. Communists will shut down a city to prevent a deadly epidemic from going exponential. Our neo-liberal leaders only started to care when the Dow Jones went down. Don't expect them to call for a shut-down as that will cost their donors some money. As mostly elderly people will die they are probably calculating how much money the pension funds will save..."

The problem with these ideas to take it on the chin -- is the whole capacity issue. Slowing the number of cases reduces the over-capacity surge.

NDPP

"Coronavirus has a mortality rate of ten times that of the flu, a top US health official tells a Congressional hearing." (and vid)

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1237907409420423168

 

"Due to escalating concerns about the spread of cornavirus and in consultation with the City and County of San Francisco, tomorrow night's game vs the Nets at Chase Center will be played without fans. Fans with tickets to this game will receive a refund..."

https://twitter.com/warriors/status/1237803013177131009

NBA has just canceled its season until further notice. Good thing some people there get it.

Sean in Ottawa

The measure that the US is taking defies all logic.

Trump is blaming Europe for not punishing China fast enough and is now punishing Europe. Friday midnight 30 days no travel from Europe to US. It sounded like he also meant packages but his words were incoherent. The UK (that other country with Covid 19 out of control with a PM who mused about doing nothing but take it on the chin) is exempt.

So:

Covid 19 is an opportunity for Trump to do the things he wanted to do:

tax cuts and help to business

payroll taxes to run out at end of year (after election)

build the wall

attack Europe

suck up to his pal Johnson

etc.

The only logic in this is that they are all measures he wanted to do and to help him win the election

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

jerrym wrote:

In further proof that Trump doesn't give a damn about his own followers, although none was needed, he announced a new rally in Wisconsin on the same day Sanders and Biden discontined theirs in Ohio because of the risk to attendees from the Covid-19 virus. 

President Donald Trump's reelection campaign announced Tuesday that he will hold an event with supporters in Milwaukee the same day Democrats Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Vice President Joe Biden announced they were canceling events in Ohio out of concern for public health amid the coronavirus outbreak

Trump has privately insisted that there be no changes to his schedule, despite warnings from health officials about large gatherings as the virus has spread throughout the United States. He said Tuesday that the public should "stay calm" because the coronavirus will "go away," though officials on the Sanders and Biden campaigns said they were acting on advice from public officials who were worried about convening big crowds during the outbreak. 

Trump will launch the "Catholics for Trump" coalition on March 19 at the Wisconsin Center. It will be a "large campaign event," campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told CNN when asked if it was fair to characterize the coalition rollout as a rally. Initially a person familiar said the campaign would announce a rally Tuesday, not a "campaign event." ...

In an op-ed in The Washington Post, Trump's former homeland security adviser Tom Bossert is one of several officials who have discouraged large gatherings, to help mitigate the spread of the virus. 

"School closures, isolation of the sick, home quarantines of those who have come into contact with the sick, social distancing, telework and large-gathering cancellations must be implemented before the spread of the disease in any community reaches 1 percent," Bossert wrote.

Some people around Trump, including his former acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, have fed his belief that the media is exaggerating reports about the coronavirus in order to damage him politically. 

Rush Limbaugh, a close ally of Trump's, claimed on his radio show that Democrats want Trump to stop holding rallies "not because of public safety, not because of public health" but to hurt the President. 

"If you can't beat Trump and if you want to stop the appearance of excitement about the Trump campaign, then stop the rallies," Limbaugh said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/politics/donald-trump-campaign-rally-coro...

Limbaugh can't die fast enough.

Let Donnie keep doing his rallies at this time. It's the perfect storm. and like Jonesville they will follow their Master into death. Maybe Americans would finally wake the fuck up to the fact the'Conservative' movement is a billionaire class SCAM!

 

There is no credible way to make sure that only right-wing true believers in Trump get sick. The Canada US border is also fairly pourous. Don't call for the continuation of the rallies as something that will only kill the stupid.

Not many or any 'libs' at a Trump rally. But I digress. I watched that Orange maggot on a Special News Report tonight trying to sound caring as he read from a teleprompter, of a text he didn't write, Promising billions to combat COVID 19 by spending on everything he CUT in the first place.

If his groupies believe him when he called it a hoax, these lead paint eating imbeciles will continue to think so and find themselvews in the hospital --- just to blame it all on the leftists, the socialists, the liberals, the Democratic Party, the press 'the deep state' and of course,Obama.

It's time the Right Wing cancer in DC with their leader trump stop blaming Obama. It's been 3 years. If there's any fuck ups, the finger should be pointed at the orange maggot and he himself should take some sort of responsibility for his own Party's failures.

Fat chance.              

Sean in Ottawa

alan smithee wrote:

Not many or any 'libs' at a Trump rally.

They go to the rally. They they spread it around their communities. The spread affects everyone. Including those without access to care.

NorthReport

Thanks MegB

The over abundance of conspiracy theories here have driven a substantial number of posters away

Too bad

MegB wrote:

NDPP wrote:

MegB wrote:

iyraste1313 you have twice been warned about posting unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. When you do that you compromise the integrity of the thread, so I can't promote it elsewhere on the sight. You obviously don't care much about veracity of information so I'm removing the problem. You. I'm banning you.

NDPP wrote:

I do not approve of this banning. 'Unsubtantiated conspiracy theories' abound on this site. Why are those such as 'Russiagate' permitted and others unreported in the Guardian or New York Times denounced? This is thought-policing that has been proven wrong in the past eg 'Arab Spring' and should not be repeated. Please reconsider the ban.

We're cracking down on misinformation here. The ban stays.

NDPP

Coronavirus Pandemic Prompts Unprecedented Measures

https://youtu.be/Ttr9JHC8ZAo

Trump special address to the nation on COVID-19 and analysis

"No nation is more prepared or more resilient than the United States..."

We'll see.

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Coronavirus Pandemic Prompts Unprecedented Measures

https://youtu.be/Ttr9JHC8ZAo

Trump special address to the nation on COVID-19 and analysis

"No nation is more prepared or more resilient than the United States..."

We'll see.

He also said it is not a financial crisis; that it was Europe's fault becuase they did not take action against China quicker; that he was stopping all travel from Europe to the US except some US citizens; that the UK is exempt for whatever reason...

Market went into freefal after he spoke after rising in anticipation.

Nobody has confidence in the US response except the Trump cult.

I think it is more accurate to say "we are seeing"

NDPP
Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Coronavirus Updates:

   https://twitter.com/DrTedros

  https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth

Good links -- thanks

JKR

I sure wish now that Hillary Clinton had won the 2016 election.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Not many or any 'libs' at a Trump rally.

They go to the rally. They they spread it around their communities. The spread affects everyone. Including those without access to care.

Liberals go to Trump rallies? Have you ever seen a Trump rally? It would be like a black man going to a KKK rally. If there are liberals going to these rallies, it's just to document on film how fucking ignorant 43% of the country who believe he's some sort of Messiah. Some think he's Jesus himself..Thats said with a straight face. Unfortunately, this is NOT hyperbole.

that country is divided not just by ideologies but some of the America's most mentally ill, gullible and conspiracy theorists that are way too far gone.

In short, Trumpers are in dire need of Seroquel, They are programmed zombies who reject reality. I doubt that any real liberal (not Joe Scarboroughs) would attend a Trump rally for fun and just to be in the crowd...I don't know.

I have no idea what point you are making. Are you implying that liberals go to his rallies and spread his poison? If so,. I coiuldn't disagree with you more

Bacchus

No hes saying, quite sensibly, that they leave the rally and infect everyone they come in contact with which would be everyone, left centre or right

NDPP

Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now

https://t.co/4aFXuuTVZD?amp=1

Important article on the necessity for immediate #SocialDistancing

 

City of Toronto Activates Emergency Operations Centre

https://twitter.com/globalnewsto/status/1238096594366615554

"The City of Toronto says it has begun the next phase of managing COVID-19, activating it 'Emergency Operations Centre (EOC)' in response to the global coronavirus pandemic."

 

Dr Eileen de Villa: Toronto' Medical Officer of Health

https://twitter.com/epdevilla/status/1237759499122782208

Info, updates and other links

NDPP

BC Centre For Disease Control

http://www.bccdc.ca/about/news-stories/stories/2020/information-on-novel...

Latest case count, links, updates, information for the public, patients and professionals

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

BREAKING: CP) Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his wife are in self-isolation over COVID-19 concerns, which has forced the cancellation of an in-person meeting of Canada's first ministers.

NDPP

Saved by the virus. Never mind Justin. Trusty deputy Chrystia can handle everything I'm sure.

NDPP

Trudeau Self-Isolating As Wife Sophie Awaits Result of COVID-19 Test

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/trudeau-self-isolating-as-wife...

"...The doctor's advice to the Prime Minister is to continue daily activities while self-monitoring, given he is exhibiting no symptoms himself. However, out of an abundance of caution, the Prime Minister is acting to self-isolate and work from home until receiving Sophie's results,' read the statement...NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh also revealed Thursday that he is self-isolating after falling ill..."

 

Washington Did Not Inform Ottawa in Advance of European Travel Ban: Freeland

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/freeland-trump-travel-coronavirus-1.549...

"Canada's deputy prime minister says the Trump administration did not give Canada a heads up that it would restrict passenger travel from 26 European nations to the US amid the global coronavirus pandemic. In an interview with CBC News Network, Chrystia Freeland said the Canadian govenrment found out when Trump went on live television. 'This is absolutely something that we need to discuss with our friends and neighbours, and we will be doing that, said Freeland..."

Sean in Ottawa

alan smithee wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Not many or any 'libs' at a Trump rally.

They go to the rally. They they spread it around their communities. The spread affects everyone. Including those without access to care.

Liberals go to Trump rallies? Have you ever seen a Trump rally? It would be like a black man going to a KKK rally. If there are liberals going to these rallies, it's just to document on film how fucking ignorant 43% of the country who believe he's some sort of Messiah. Some think he's Jesus himself..Thats said with a straight face. Unfortunately, this is NOT hyperbole.

that country is divided not just by ideologies but some of the America's most mentally ill, gullible and conspiracy theorists that are way too far gone.

In short, Trumpers are in dire need of Seroquel, They are programmed zombies who reject reality. I doubt that any real liberal (not Joe Scarboroughs) would attend a Trump rally for fun and just to be in the crowd...I don't know.

I have no idea what point you are making. Are you implying that liberals go to his rallies and spread his poison? If so,. I coiuldn't disagree with you more

Read what Bacchus said.

Sorry I was not clearer but in my defence -- this is something you should have been able to figure out without any comment at all from me. Trumpers do not live in isolation with only other Trumpers. Spreading widely in their "community" will only make an outbreak inevitable. 

Get your head areoung the idea that Trump supporters are stupid but they have money and are still flying all around the country thinking that their leader will protect them. It is ridiculous to suggest that a virus among them is good for others.

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Saved by the virus. Never mind Justin. Trusty deputy Chrystia can handle everything I'm sure.

This is a shocking statement to make. Try to wake up again this morning with a little humanity. Are we no better than the far right in Canada????

Sean in Ottawa

dp Again! grrrr

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Not many or any 'libs' at a Trump rally.

They go to the rally. They they spread it around their communities. The spread affects everyone. Including those without access to care.

Liberals go to Trump rallies? Have you ever seen a Trump rally? It would be like a black man going to a KKK rally. If there are liberals going to these rallies, it's just to document on film how fucking ignorant 43% of the country who believe he's some sort of Messiah. Some think he's Jesus himself..Thats said with a straight face. Unfortunately, this is NOT hyperbole.

that country is divided not just by ideologies but some of the America's most gullible and conspiracy theorists that are way too far gone.

In short, Trumpers are in dire need of Seroquel, They are programmed zombies who reject reality. I doubt that any real liberal (not Joe Scarboroughs) would attend a Trump rally for fun and just to be in the crowd...I don't know.

I have no idea what point you are making. Are you implying that liberals go to his rallies and spread his poison? If so,. I coiuldn't disagree with you more

Read what Bacchus said.

Sorry I was not clearer but in my defence -- this is something you should have been able to figure out without any comment at all from me. Trumpers do not live in isolation with only other Trumpers. Spreading widely in their "community" will only make an outbreak inevitable. 

Get your head areoung the idea that Trump supporters are stupid but they have money and are still flying all around the country thinking that their leader will protect them. It is ridiculous to suggest that a virus among them is good for others.

First of all, I clap to your comment below this.

Secondly,Trumpers are sick fucks. I couldn't give a rat's ass if the whole lot of them die --- including their leader.

Cruel but fair.

Bacchus

As well as everyone they come in contact with? Including you and your family since its inevitable that someone you meet will be a trumperor?

Sean in Ottawa

alan smithee wrote:

 

First of all, I clap to your comment below this.

Secondly,Trumpers are sick fucks. I couldn't give a rat's ass if the whole lot of them die --- including their leader.

Cruel but fair.

I do not understand what you mean you clap to my comment below this. Can you be clearer as we are obviously not understanding each other well at the moment.

I understand the anger. I have always felt that the safest and best end of the Trump administration is death by cheeseburger.

However, I do not call for this publicly very much becuase I think that reduces my own credibility. I definitely draw the line at any communicable disease that could infect others spreading around a community that represents probably as many people as the number who live in Canada.

I have been saying the greatest danger to Canadian public health at this moment is the mismangement and spread of this virus by idiots in the US. 

I also consider that the Trump Train is a cult. It has many of the characteristics of a cult. For this reason, I fear that there are people caucght up for a number of vulnerabilities in this group. They also have people near to them who care about them. I am reminded about this as I even have a friend who is deep in this and we cannot talk politics. It is difficult to describe or even understand how people can fall for what Trump is so obviously to us. Nevertheless it is happening. I cannot bring myself to wish death on all his supporters no matter how angry I am with this cult.

For the leadership I care little becuase I think they well understand what they are. But any opportunity for them to destroy themselves I woudl want limited to them and not part of a dangerous international health emergency.

 

ETA - you said in your post and I read over it too fast that Trumpers include the mentally ill. I agree. I categorically do not call for punishment of the mentally ill and I suspect that you do not as well. Perhaps you can see my point and retract the statement even though we both know and agree on where it is coming from and what you meant by it. I share your fury. I just cannot believe that you have fully thought through the implications of what you said.

Sean in Ottawa

Alan I want to be clear that emotionally I am with you to the extent that I understand that the actions of this administration and the cult that follows them harms millions if not billions of people and stands to kill many. I understand the cancer they represent in the public sphere. I just cannot get behind wishing any spread of such a virus anywhere.

NDPP

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Saved by the virus. Never mind Justin. Trusty deputy Chrystia can handle everything I'm sure.

This is a shocking statement to make. Try to wake up again this morning with a little humanity. Are we no better than the far right in Canada????

NDPP wrote:

I'm in no 'we' that would include you or your silly political calculus Sport. But just what exactly was Mrs T's speaking engagement in the UK? To what audience? And who paid for it and her? Anybody know?

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Saved by the virus. Never mind Justin. Trusty deputy Chrystia can handle everything I'm sure.

This is a shocking statement to make. Try to wake up again this morning with a little humanity. Are we no better than the far right in Canada????

NDPP wrote:

I'm in no 'we' that would include you or your silly political calculus Sport. But just what exactly was Mrs T's speaking engagement in the UK? To what audience? And who paid for it and her? Anybody know?

Ok understand. I would feel for any children whose parents might have the virus and for any person facing it at a human and personal level. This is in my definition of humanity. I am ashamed to have presumed to be associated with a person like you in this way. I will not presume you to be part of a "we" in this regard again. I had hoped that those who claimed to be on the left actually gave enough of a shit about people to not stoop to the level of personal grabage that characterizes right wing politics. Our rhetoric makes us hypocrites when we do this and not just assholes. Let this be a lesson for me. My apologies. For me politics is for humanity - it does not replace it. I thought I knew more about you than I apparantely do after reading your words for years.

Bacchus

Here Here Sean. Well said. If there is no difference between us (and increasingly there isn't) then we all deserve the death and destruction

NDPP

Any excuse for another one of your little pompous, pretentious party-pieces, eh Sean.

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