Coronavirus: what Canadians need to know

1923 posts / 0 new
Last post
Douglas Fir Premier

Good compilation of resources from an anarchist collective. Some Ottawa-specific, but most not.

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

Not everything is a mental illness and mental illness does not excuse all bad behavior. Mentally ill people can make good and bad choices just like everyone else. Not all pedophiles act on their urges. Nor is Trump acting alone. He is supported by a huge number of powerful elites within his administration and without. I am not comparing him to Hitler but he too was supported by powerful people. He didn't act alone and regular everyday people carried out his evil plans even against neighbours they had known for years. 

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide. 

I am ignoring your shameful bullshit response trying to avoid what you said when you were called out for it. Instead I quote the original post becuase you are responsible for it and it does not go away no matter how much baloney you try to bury it in -- unless you walk it back.

Bizarre that you could make the comment you did with any personal connection to mental illness (although just about everyone has such a connection). Totally in character for you to double down and pretend that you said something else. 

So in the above post you compared people with mental illness to pedophiles. What. The. Fucking. Fuck.

Then you made the generalization about people with mental illness being responsible for their judgments. Mental illness is the only condition where we MAY consider people legally and morally not responsible. My point was that there are some people caught up in this "Trump Train"  who may be without full capacity. These people are at risk as well as the ones who have no explanation. It really sucks that you and all of us cannot easily distinguish. It is why showing humanity does not involve wishing a potentially deadly and communicable disease on anyone.

The gross collective stupidity of the US -- where Republicans are partying in bars to prove that this is all a hoax, represents a greater threat to Canada (and of course other Americans). The stupidity of these people may cost the lives of some of the poeple here on this board before it is over. Ther eis no such thing as poetic justice in any part of this.

Paladin1

Pondering wrote:

 I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit.

Like Sophie Grégoire Trudeau?

NDPP

"German officials alarmed over what they see as Trump's aggressive 1 bn US$ bid to take over Tubingen-based biopharmaceutical company Curevac to secure possible COVID-19 vaccine 'just for US.' Officials to offer incentives to Curevac and consider blocking sale."

https://twitter.com/thorstenbenner/status/1239088641789628417

 

Germany Tries To Stop US From Luring Away Firm Seeking Coronavirus Vaccine

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/germany-tries-...

"Berlin is trying to stop Washingotn from persuading a German company seeking a coronavirus vaccine to move its research to the United States, prompting German politicians to insist no country should have a monopoly on any future vaccine. German government sources told Reuters on Sunday that the US administration was looking into how it could gain access to a potential vaccine being developed by a German firm CureVac. Earlier, The Welt am Sonntag German newspaper reported that US President Donald Trump had offered funds to lure CureVac to the United States, and the German government was making counter-offers to tempt it to stay..."

Hegemons will be hegemons.

NDPP

Sunday, 15th March: Curves and News

https://youtu.be/QIuzLf9f5WI

Dr John Campbell

"...Is the world blind? Here in Lombardy people are dying, and we are only at the start. Nobody is helping. Nobody is taking precautions..." - a letter from Lombardy

 

Sunday, 15th March, International Aspects

https://youtu.be/GIMXekRVnHo

Dr John Campbell

"Manila, state of calamity...Flatten the curve!"

 

Channel IV UK: Coronavirus: Elderly Could Face 4 Months of Self-Isolation as 14 More People Die in the UK

https://youtu.be/kO4aLB9jwKA

"NHS capacity: the government has admitted that not everyone that seeks a ventilator may get one..."

bekayne

epaulo13 wrote:

If de Blasio won’t #closenycpublicschools to protect students and their families, teachers will #sickout

Despite the temporary closure of a few New York City schools (slated to re-open Monday), it has become clear that it is past time to close the school system entirely.

As education workers, we know firsthand that families rely on the schools for food, child care and even laundry. We demand that the closure of schools be accompanied by efforts to distribute food to families who need it and as medical centers or care centers for children of healthcare workers, as suggested by NYC Council Member Mark Treyger.  

 NYC Council Speaker Corey Johnson has repeatedly called for the closure of schools. Parents and parent advocates from around the city, as well as the CDC, have also called for closure. Department chairs in the city council have also called for closure. When will the mayor listen?

However, it is clear that the socially responsible course of action is to #FlattenTheCurve on the outbreak. Transmission is clearly already happening in the schools, and the sooner it stops the fewer people will die. 

quote:

As education workers concerned about the safety and education of our students we call on DOE to #closenycpublicschools immediately.  We also demand: 

All temporary public shelters should be kept open during the day.

Food should be made available to those who depend on public school meals, as is done in the summer.

Freeze rent and extend the moratorium on evictions (sign a petition here for that demand). 

Pressure Spectrum, Verizon, Optimum, and other providers to open up free internet for public school students to ensure continuity of instruction. Pressure Google to provide free Chromebooks for students who need them. 

Encourage employers to allow all parents/guardians to stay home to care for their children. Provide real estate tax relief to enable small businesses to provide sick days.

Establish an emergency fund to help affected businesses and their workers, regardless of immigration status.

Clinics testing and testing should be free of charge for anyone, with or without medical insurance, and should require no paperwork indicating immigration status so that all community members can seek treatment without fear.  

Streamline emergency unemployment for workers who get laid off due to staying home

Ensure patients and those likely to get COVID-19 have the medical checkups and treatment quickly. Those under quarantine should be taken care of medically and financially

Governor overuled Mayor, schools closed.

NDPP

STAY HOME: COVID-19 Spreading in Community, 100s Could Be Infected, Says Ottawa's Medical Officer of Health

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/stay-home-covid-19-spreading-i...

"...With COVID-19 now announced to be spreading in the community, Ottawa's medical officer of health appealed to city residents Sunday to stay home and to strictly limit social gatherings of any kind...'One case is typically resulting in two cases, and the doubling time is about 4 or 5 days, so we're estimating that right now in Ottawa, there could be from a couple of hundred to even a thousand cases of COVID-19 in the community. Therefore I'm asking that today people strengthen their social distancing measures...I mean that people should stay home unless there's an essential reason to take  trip to the grocery store, to the pharmacy, to look after an ill friend or family member..."

 

"Toronto Public Health does not provide COVID-19 testing. Please call your health care provider before visiting...Current situation...At this time the virus is not circulating locally..."

https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/health-wellness-care/diseases-me...

An example of  dangerously misleading and erroneous information being disseminated by TO Public Health. Of course the virus is circulating locally. They aren't doing the necessary testing spreads to determine that even if it were true. Which it is NOT.

Aristotleded24

I'm prepared to eat crow and admit that I was wrong about how serious this pandemic is. Really hoping for all the best.

Pondering

Paladin1 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

 I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit.

Like Sophie Grégoire Trudeau?

To some extent yes. If I believed in karma this would be it. 

NDPP

I see no reason to hope for the best when the necessary measures to ensure that end have clearly not been taken by our political establishment. Here's another purely PR release designed to convince us we're in good hands when it is now clear we're not and ''nothing's off the table' means they're still dangerously dithering, wasting time and lives.

Shutting the Border andb Mandatory COVID-19 Isolation? Trudeau Says Nothing's 'Off the Table'

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/shutting-the-border-and-mandat...

"Prime Minister Trudeau says the federal government is 'not taking anything off the table' when it comes to additional measures to combat the spread of the CORONA-19 pandemic in Canada, like shutting down the border to international travellers and implementing mandatory self-isolation. Asked what the worst scenario Canada is preparing for, Trudeau said that preparations are underway for 'all scenarios'  from low spread to 'maximal spread' of the virus..."

Why am I not convinced or reassured our representatives are up to speed on this? Their delays and false steps will sharpen the curve not flatten it. Why are billions being readied for business while urgent requirements to provision and attend to the needs of vulnerable Canadians, our elders,  the homeless and northern communities remain unaddressed? Why was parliament broken to allow politicians to flee to safety while leaving so many ordinary Canadians exposed and under threat?  Notice the alacrity however in getting their neoliberal sellout NAFTA done and in the bag. First things first obviously. Thanks for nothing O democratic 'representatives'. Never forgive, never forget.

[email protected]

Pondering

Sean, read my words...

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide. 

Notice how it says I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone

Just because I don't wish it on anyone doesn't mean it wouldn't be poetic justice if it happened. The whole point of poetic justice is that it wasn't wished on someone. They are responsible for their own fate.

Another word I could have used is karma but I don't believe in hocus pocus. 

You have a problem Sean. You are way to heavily invested in proving people wrong, particularly myself. You misunderstood what I was saying. I know this because I am me so I am in an excellent position to know that I do not wish this virus on anyone and never did.  

 

Instead of accepting that you misinterpreted my words you decide to be a pompous ass. What sucks is your personal attacks. They are both shameful and out of line.

As to the mental state of the Trump followers at every level right up to the administration I am sure some are mentally ill as are some followers of Sanders. I have seen no evidence that Trump followers are less mentally capable in general or so much so that their judgement is impaired so they vote in a manner they normally would not have.

Emphasizing how the mentally ill are incapable of judgement so can't be held morally responsible for their actions leads to taking the vote away from the mentally ill. Some extreme cases of mental illness may justify declaring someone mentally incompetent to vote but for the most part mental illness does not impair judgement to that extent. I think if we looked at the demographics we would find a lot of people raised to think as they do. To some extent we are brainwashed by our parents and community. I think we would find lack of education a component although he does have college and university educated followers. Macho men. Guns God and Country. They will continue to support Trump not because they are mentally ill but because Trump is the ultimate huckster and they want what he is selling. They will fall in step with Trump and have some elaborate conspiracy theory on how this was all orchestrated to take Trump down. 

NDPP

Trump Administration Official Admits Coronavirus Could Kill Millions in US

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/03/16/covi-m16.html

"...The United States could well become the next epicenter of the pandemic as the deliberate failure of the Trump administration to conduct an effective response opens up the American population to losses in the millions of lives. The WHO warned Friday that, given the inaction on the part of many countries to contain the pandemic within their borders, 'any country that looks at the experience of other countries with large epidemics and thinks 'that won't happen to us' is making a deadly mistake.' The state of the pandemic, by all credible accounts, is racing ahead towards a disaster for millions..."

 

Coronavirus Could Lead to Collapse of German Healthcare System As Early As May

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/03/16/germ-m16.html

"...On Wednesday, Chancellor Angela Merkel stated bluntly that one had to expect that between 60 and 70 percent of the population would contract coronavirus. Her priority is to avoid the healthcare system being 'overwhelmed.' The number of cases in Germany is doubling every four to five days. If this trend continues at the same pace, Germany could have 9 million cases by May..."

 

lagatta4

A positive note: my neighbour who initiated the first neighbourhood CORVID solidarity network was interviewed on the morning show at Radio-Canada, which will make the membership explode. Will check CBC Mtl as well.

Pondering

Thanks for the positive news Lagatta. I have isolated myself since Tuesday. This is feels somewhat surreal. I have to keep telling myself I am not over-reacting. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture
epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Current Situation

quote:

There have been reports of multiple phishing scams related to COVID-19. Many are asking people for credit card information to provide medication following a positive test results. This is not a call that Manitobans would receive from public health officials. Manitobans are advised to not provide any financial data, hang up on the call and to report to the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre at (toll-free) 1-888-495-8501.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Saskatchewan First Nation has presumptive case of COVID-19

The Peter Ballantyne Cree Nation (PBCN) in northeastern Saskatchewan is dealing with a presumptive case of infectious COVID-19 in one of its eight communities.

The First Nation said the case was discovered in Southend, a community of 900 about 450 kilometres north of Prince Albert.

“Exposed persons have been notified and are being monitored by PBCN Health Services and public health officials from Northern Inter-Tribal Health Authority (NITHA),” the band said in a release Sunday evening.

“PBCN is following the direction of NITHA’s Medical Health Officer and working collaboratively with Indigenous Services Canada, the Saskatchewan Health Authority, its provincial ministries, and Prince Albert Grand Council.”....

contrarianna

From The Intercept:

BIG PHARMA PREPARES TO PROFIT FROM THE CORONAVIRUS
Sharon Lerner
March 13 2020,   ....
“Pharmaceutical companies view Covid-19 as a once-in-a-lifetime business opportunity,” said Gerald Posner, author of “Pharma: Greed, Lies, and the Poisoning of America.”
....
The ability to make money off of pharmaceuticals is already uniquely large in the U.S., which lacks the basic price controls other countries have, giving drug companies more freedom over setting prices for their products than anywhere else in the world. During the current crisis, pharmaceutical makers may have even more leeway than usual because of language industry lobbyists inserted into an $8.3 billion coronavirus spending package, passed last week, to maximize their profits from the pandemic.
....
Initially, some lawmakers had tried to ensure that the federal government would limit how much pharmaceutical companies could reap from vaccines and treatments for the new coronavirus that they developed with the use of public funding. In February, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., and other House members wrote to Trump pleading that he “ensure that any vaccine or treatment developed with U.S. taxpayer dollars be accessible, available and affordable,” a goal they said couldn’t be met “if pharmaceutical corporations are given authority to set prices and determine distribution, putting profit-making interests ahead of health priorities.”
....
Among the drugs that were developed with some public funding and went on to be huge earners for private companies are the HIV drug AZT and the cancer treatment Kymriah, which Novartis now sells for $475,000.

In his book “Pharma,” Posner points to another example of private companies making exorbitant profits from drugs produced with public funding. The antiviral drug sofosbuvir, which is used to treat hepatitis C, stemmed from key research funded by the National Institutes of Health. That drug is now owned by Gilead Sciences, which charges $1,000 per pill — more than many people with hepatitis C can afford; Gilead earned $44 billion from the drug during its first three years on the market....

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/13/big-pharma-drug-pricing-coronavirus-...

 

JKR

Pondering wrote:

Thanks for the positive news Lagatta. I have isolated myself since Tuesday. This is feels somewhat surreal. I have to keep telling myself I am not over-reacting. 

I don't think you're at all overreacting. Me and my significant other have isolated ourselves since Friday. I'm only working from home. We're getting our groceries and meds delivered. I think for now staying at home as much as possible is our best way to deal with this situation.

Aristotleded24
JKR

What I got from these videos:

STAY AT HOME. [as much as possible]

kropotkin1951

In the meantime Trudeau is making it very clear that the border between Canada and the US no longer exists. Seattle is one of the US hot spots and we are allowing tourists to just come across the border. The BC government and health authorities seem to be trying to stay ahead of the wave and they don't like the decision.

Disaster capitalism comes in various forms. The government closed casinos and within hours I received spam from an on-line betting site that said "Shut In ?" here are X number of free coins.

A number of Canadian cases have been linked to people who were recently in the U.S. Washington State is a major COVID-19 hotspot, with 769 confirmed cases and 42 deaths. Reports of dangerously low testing rates and long wait times for results in the U.S. are causing concern among health experts in Canada.

Provincial Health Officer Bonnie Henry revealed today that B.C. has 103 cases and four people have died. All the deaths are linked to an outbreak at the Lynn Valley Care Centre, a seniors residence in North Vancouver.

Henry agreed with the call for a ban on entries from the U.S.

“We don’t want people coming to visit that might be putting people here at risk of COVID-19,” said Henry.

At least four of B.C.’s 30 new cases have been linked to a dental conference in Vancouver March 6 and 7.

BC Bans Large Public Gatherings, Urges No International Travel

Henry also announced a tighter ban on gatherings. The government had banned gatherings of more than 250 people last week, but reduced the limit to 50 people today. She also said casinos would be ordered to close.

And Dix announced the cancellation of all elective surgeries across the province to ensure hospitals have the capacity to deal with an expected increase in the number of patients requiring treatment for COVID-19.

The government will also allow pharmacists to renew prescriptions without requiring a note from a doctor and increase long-term care bed capacity, he said.

Henry said there is still time to slow the spread of the virus.

“It’s not inevitable that we are going to get major surges,” she said, adding that this was a critical time to take action — including a travel ban on U.S. visitors.

https://thetyee.ca/News/2020/03/16/BC-Blasts-Trudeau-Decision-Not-To-Clo...

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
In the meantime Trudeau is making it very clear that the border between Canada and the US no longer exists. Seattle is one of the US hot spots and we are allowing tourists to just come across the border. The BC government and health authorities seem to be trying to stay ahead of the wave and they don't like the decision.

As one of the WHO professionals said, the virus does not respect borders. We should follow the lead of countries like New Zealand and Australia and quarantine anyone who comes into the country, regardless of whether they are citizen of Canada, the US, or any other country.

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Disaster capitalism comes in various forms. The government closed casinos and within hours I received spam from an on-line betting site that said "Shut In ?" here are X number of free coins.

That's really disgusting. BC is a step ahead of Manitoba in this regard. So not only is the government sucking money from poor elderly people via gambling, but it is exposing this high-risk population to disease by remaining open. If most social gatherings are banned but casinos are still open, where do you expect all these isolated, lonely people to gather?

Pondering

The community room in my building is being locked and Projet Changement has canceled all the social groups even those with only a few people. New Look phoned to cancel my eye exam, 

lagatta4

That's too bad. I remember Projet Changement having a very good cafeteria, but don't think that exists any more. So many salubrious activities have been shut down, such as my lovely branch library. It isn't far from either of the two closer to you; it is Marc Favreau (Sol) at Rosemont just east of St-Denis (there is a lift at the Rosemont métro). There are many free cultural activities there, as at Le Plateau and Mordechai-Richler (Mile-End) as well as la Maison de la culture Claude-Léveillé, on Jean-Talon, corner Boyer. Jean-Talon métro also has lifts.

I always thought New Look was extremely expensive but that could be a misconception on my part.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Pondering wrote:
Governments are talking about helping small businesses but they are talking loans and for some that won't be enough to stop them from going under and staff will lose their jobs all along the suppy chain.

Just lost my job today, along with all the non-practitioner staff at the wellness clinic where I was working.  Bookings are way down, their rent is over $8,000/month (downtown Vancouver).

I doubt this is an isolated incident.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

A positive note: my neighbour who initiated the first neighbourhood CORVID solidarity network was interviewed on the morning show at Radio-Canada, which will make the membership explode. Will check CBC Mtl as well.

One of my friends helped start the COVID-19 solidarity network here in Vancouver. The Facebook page for it is being overwhelmed with activity.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

I am so sorry you lost your job, Left Turn. I hope there is something in these newly announced support measures that help you out.

Our office has closed but we will continue to work from home. However, the projects I work on are community based so that means that other than budget and administrative tasks, it will be a fairly lean few weeks if not months , billing wise. As an independent contractor to the firm, I doubt we will be eligible for any compensation. But I am used to the precarious nature of freelance work.

 

NDPP

Democracy Now: March 16, 2020

https://youtu.be/AGwcaChSPiE

Extended Coronavirus edition

 

Galloway: European Economies Risk Being Wiped Out

https://youtu.be/IafdZcIp2Ik

"Former UK MP George Galloway joins Rick Sanchez to discuss the impact of the ongoing COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic in Europe and the measures governments are taking to try to mitigate its spread..."

 

Coronavirus As An Excuse?

https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1239236920011603969

"Mutating viruses have always been with us. A rational economic system would have learned to plan and manage them. Capitalism failed to learn because profit was/is its #1 priority. Capitalism caused today's disaster, not the latest virus."

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

Sean, read my words...

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide. 

Notice how it says I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone

Just because I don't wish it on anyone doesn't mean it wouldn't be poetic justice if it happened. The whole point of poetic justice is that it wasn't wished on someone. They are responsible for their own fate.

Another word I could have used is karma but I don't believe in hocus pocus. 

You have a problem Sean. You are way to heavily invested in proving people wrong, particularly myself. You misunderstood what I was saying. I know this because I am me so I am in an excellent position to know that I do not wish this virus on anyone and never did.  

 

Instead of accepting that you misinterpreted my words you decide to be a pompous ass. What sucks is your personal attacks. They are both shameful and out of line.

As to the mental state of the Trump followers at every level right up to the administration I am sure some are mentally ill as are some followers of Sanders. I have seen no evidence that Trump followers are less mentally capable in general or so much so that their judgement is impaired so they vote in a manner they normally would not have.

Emphasizing how the mentally ill are incapable of judgement so can't be held morally responsible for their actions leads to taking the vote away from the mentally ill. Some extreme cases of mental illness may justify declaring someone mentally incompetent to vote but for the most part mental illness does not impair judgement to that extent. I think if we looked at the demographics we would find a lot of people raised to think as they do. To some extent we are brainwashed by our parents and community. I think we would find lack of education a component although he does have college and university educated followers. Macho men. Guns God and Country. They will continue to support Trump not because they are mentally ill but because Trump is the ultimate huckster and they want what he is selling. They will fall in step with Trump and have some elaborate conspiracy theory on how this was all orchestrated to take Trump down. 

I called you out for saying this:

Not everything is a mental illness and mental illness does not excuse all bad behavior. Mentally ill people can make good and bad choices just like everyone else. Not all pedophiles act on their urges. Nor is Trump acting alone. He is supported by a huge number of powerful elites within his administration and without. I am not comparing him to Hitler but he too was supported by powerful people. He didn't act alone and regular everyday people carried out his evil plans even against neighbours they had known for years. 

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide. 

Saying that you think it is poetic justice and you do not wish it on anyone is like putting a straw in your mouth and trying to such and blow at the same time.

You are slippery, I'll grant that. But then again whenever you have put up comments and been criticized for them you resort to the same type of responses -- never walking anything back. 

Your garbage about the vote is just that. We do not measure capacity for responsibility when it comes to voting. It is such a bogus tangent for you to follow. The legal issue of responsibility has not stopped people from having the vote and my comment is not going to be more effecitve than the supreme court. 

Really why not ever, ever, ever just admit that you said something that was off rather than fighting on like this? What you said was offensive and just take the comment without making ridiculous excuses and attacks to run away from it. You would get more respect that way.

As for your comment about men -- there are fewer in percentage but many women who like trump and some are well educated. There is definitely a cult dynamic here that puts vulnerable people at risk. Tragedy that Trump has followers but there is no poetic justice even though some are certainly despicable.

As we speak there are thousands going out into bars to prove that CVD19 is a hoax. They will be infected and they will infect others more vulnerable than themselves. Those people will incluce all political stripes.

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

Thanks for the positive news Lagatta. I have isolated myself since Tuesday. This is feels somewhat surreal. I have to keep telling myself I am not over-reacting. 

I cannot stand some of your words but I really hope that you are healthy and will be okay.

Sean in Ottawa

Left Turn wrote:

Pondering wrote:
Governments are talking about helping small businesses but they are talking loans and for some that won't be enough to stop them from going under and staff will lose their jobs all along the suppy chain.

Just lost my job today, along with all the non-practitioner staff at the wellness clinic where I was working.  Bookings are way down, their rent is over $8,000/month (downtown Vancouver).

I doubt this is an isolated incident.

It is not at all and there will be more to come. I had been laid off before this started and in my 50s it is hard to get work. Now Ei has ended and it will be impossible. At least I have some savings for a while. The freelance work is all but gone now. I tried some labour jobs but one place I went to was a construction site and I was really worried about the apparent danger enough to not stay and work.

I hope you find work while you have some supports.

NDPP

kropotkin1951 wrote:

In the meantime Trudeau is making it very clear that the border between Canada and the US no longer exists. Seattle is one of the US hot spots and we are allowing tourists to just come across the border. The BC government and health authorities seem to be trying to stay ahead of the wave and they don't like the decision.

BC Bans Large Public Gatherings, Urges No International Travel

https://thetyee.ca/News/2020/03/16/BC-Blasts-Trudeau-Decision-Not-To-Clo...

NDPP wrote:

 At the press conference earlier today, Freeland's explanation of the border issue was sprinkled with words such as 'delicate' and 'possible provocation'.  No surprise surely...

Federal Govt Announces New Border Restrictions (and vid)

https://www.cpac.ca/en/programs/headline-politics/episodes/66171338/

 

'Canada Adopts America First Foreign Policy', US State Dept Boasted in 2017

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1239689427494080512

"In December the Canadian media dubbed Chrystia Freeland, the 'Implementer-in-Chief and minister of everything.' And Canada's (neo) Liberal PM Trudeau is currently in quarantine over coronavirus, which essentially puts this granddaughter of a Nazi in charge."

NDPP

"Generally speaking, Canadian citizens/permanent residents (holders of PR cards) and US citizens are the only people who will be allowed to enter Canada."

https://twitter.com/JPTasker/status/1239678611013210120

 

"We remain concerned that accessing visitors from the United States continues to be allowed,' said BC Health Minister Adrian Dix. 'It's our strong message that visitors from the US not come to British Columbia. Don't come."

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1239627762706636803

 

Perhaps Donald Trump will spare us from our own servile vassal 'leaders' who dare not make the necessary decision to stem the source of the contagion. How outrageous and pathetic.

"US President Trump is asked how close he is to shutting down the northern border. 'We think about it. We think about it..."

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC/status/1239646026249703429

Paladin1

Side note. Is anyone here really hurting for supplies? Food or TP or anything? If so I can work at getting some sent to you at no cost to you.

Sean in Ottawa

Paladin1 wrote:

Side note. Is anyone here really hurting for supplies? Food or TP or anything? If so I can work at getting some sent to you at no cost to you.

Very kind of you. 

NDPP

Global National, March 16, 2020: Canadian Borders Close to Foreign Travelers As Virus Grows

https://youtu.be/c_XyoFTxVrw

"As more countries close their borders to control the spread of COVID-19, Ottawa is clamping down on who's being allowed in to Canada. Ottawa's choice to exempt US citizens is causing controversy..."

NDPP

[Live] Coronavirus Pandemic: Real Time Counter, World Map News

https://youtu.be/qgylp3Td1Bw

NDPP

"Spain: nationalises all hospitals - Italy: suspends rent and mortgage repayments - France: suspends the payment of all energy bills - USA gives trillions to the big banks and calls coronavirus the 'Chinese virus."

https://twitter.com/SocialistBoomer/status/1239721064810364930

We already know which way Canada rolls...

NDPP

US Fed Slashes Rates to Zero and Returns to 'Quantitative Easing'

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/03/16/cred-m16.html

"...In the decade since the global financial crisis, the official mantra has been that lessons have been learned and measures taken to prevent another financial meltdown. But these mechanisms have been blown apart in the space of just a few days..."

NDPP

16, March, Dr John Campbell - Coronavirus Updates: 100 Million Locked Down in Europe

https://youtu.be/WOSwYGhmnwo

"Life is going to change. We have to reorder our priorities."

 

Tuesday, March 17,

https://youtu.be/dr0Cqlf5xK4

Dr John Campbell, Coronavirus Updates:

" I don't think there will be a vaccine in 2020."

 

NDPP

Ontario Government Declares State of Emergency Amid Coronavirus Pandemic

https://globalnews.ca/news/6688074/ontario-doug-ford-coronavirus-covid-1...

"Premier Doug Ford has declared a state of emergency for Ontario due to the novel coronavirus outbreak. 'This morning I have declared a state of emergency in the province of Ontario,' Ford told reporters at Queen's Park on Tuesday. 'We are facing an unprecedented time in our history..."

 

COVID-19 Update in Toronto

https://twitter.com/TOPublicHealth/status/1239576980942659584

"A number of dedicated COVID19 assessment centres have been established in Toronto. Find out if you should visit and where the heaviest location is...

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

We already know which way Canada rolls...

It is a different country. There are different realities that exist due to past decisions.

Canada's economy is entwined with the American economy. Many of the options other countries have are not available and cost benefit is a different calculation for others.

ertainly everyone ehre would push for greater independence but asserting it in a crisis when it is even backed up by law as well as practical contractual arrangements does not make it appear. Just like when we speak about the losses going into Free Trade, getting out does not restore what was lost. Getting out of NAFTA would also have cost and loss now. The longer term value of such a decision as you can argue, does not change the fact that short term loss is still significant. 

This is not a question of decisions that can freely be made now without serious consequences. 

Canada is learning the lesson that in a pandemic it cannot shut the border without potentially devastating consequences. This is not a question of surrendering independence now. It is about facing what was surrender maybe even a generation ago. Restoring that in a crisis is a difficult discussion.

kropotkin1951

Some decisions are not tough they just need to be sophisticated and tailored to the risk. For instance why is this still a thing? This is not a vital link but it is a very weak link in any containment strategy.

We will continue to operate with heightened cleaning protocols, adhering to the best practices outlined by health authorities. We are sanitizing surfaces regularly and are well-equipped with cleaners and sanitizer in both our terminals and on board our ship. 

We have limited all sailings to less than 500 people, have space for social distancing, and have allowed self-isolation in cars on the car deck. We are limiting concession operation

https://www.cohoferry.com/COVID-19-Updates

 

Pondering

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
 Saying that you think it is poetic justice and you do not wish it on anyone is like putting a straw in your mouth and trying to such and blow at the same time.  

In your opinion Sean. Some people are merciful.  I am able to recognize a "poetic justice" outcome without desiring it. I began by saying I DO NOT WISH THIS ON ANYONE to make that clear. Insisting that you know what I really meant is ridiculous. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
  You are slippery, I'll grant that. But then again whenever you have put up comments and been criticized for them you resort to the same type of responses -- never walking anything back.   

You are so sanctimonious. I have no reason to walk anything back. It is bizarre that getting me to do so is something you focus on. You can't even fathom that I actually genuinely disagree with your assessment or that you could be wrong. You certainly have a healthy ego. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
  Your garbage about the vote is just that. We do not measure capacity for responsibility when it comes to voting. It is such a bogus tangent for you to follow. The legal issue of responsibility has not stopped people from having the vote and my comment is not going to be more effecitve than the supreme court.  

It may not prevent mentally ill people from voting but it does contribute to prejudice against them. Sane people are perfectly capable of and just as likely to be politically stupid, immoral or amoral. Also, greedy and selfish. I think claims about the mentally ill or a subset of them should be backed by evidence not just theory or "logic". 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
 Really why not ever, ever, ever just admit that you said something that was off rather than fighting on like this? What you said was offensive and just take the comment without making ridiculous excuses and attacks to run away from it. You would get more respect that way.  

Behaving respectfully towards others on a message board should be a given. 

The thing you are missing here is that I don't give a shit what you think of me. While I appreciate some of your political analysis your demeanor is offensive. I am definitely not seeking your approval of my opinions or behavior. 

Again, this is what I said:

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide.

You might want to note I was not referencing Trump nor his followers when I spoke of "poetic justice" and I stated specifically that I did not wish it on them. 

I don't need/want you to admit you are wrong or to walk anything back. Just back the hell off. I don't care what you think of me and neither does anyone else. 

For me it goes without saying that everyone here wishes everyone else good health and economic security during this time.

Sean in Ottawa

Pondering wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
 Saying that you think it is poetic justice and you do not wish it on anyone is like putting a straw in your mouth and trying to such and blow at the same time.  

In your opinion Sean. Some people are merciful.  I am able to recognize a "poetic justice" outcome without desiring it. I began by saying I DO NOT WISH THIS ON ANYONE to make that clear. Insisting that you know what I really meant is ridiculous. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
  You are slippery, I'll grant that. But then again whenever you have put up comments and been criticized for them you resort to the same type of responses -- never walking anything back.   

You are so sanctimonious. I have no reason to walk anything back. It is bizarre that getting me to do so is something you focus on. You can't even fathom that I actually genuinely disagree with your assessment or that you could be wrong. You certainly have a healthy ego. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
  Your garbage about the vote is just that. We do not measure capacity for responsibility when it comes to voting. It is such a bogus tangent for you to follow. The legal issue of responsibility has not stopped people from having the vote and my comment is not going to be more effecitve than the supreme court.  

It may not prevent mentally ill people from voting but it does contribute to prejudice against them. Sane people are perfectly capable of and just as likely to be politically stupid, immoral or amoral. Also, greedy and selfish. I think claims about the mentally ill or a subset of them should be backed by evidence not just theory or "logic". 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
 Really why not ever, ever, ever just admit that you said something that was off rather than fighting on like this? What you said was offensive and just take the comment without making ridiculous excuses and attacks to run away from it. You would get more respect that way.  

Behaving respectfully towards others on a message board should be a given. 

The thing you are missing here is that I don't give a shit what you think of me. While I appreciate some of your political analysis your demeanor is offensive. I am definitely not seeking your approval of my opinions or behavior. 

Again, this is what I said:

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide.

You might want to note I was not referencing Trump nor his followers when I spoke of "poetic justice" and I stated specifically that I did not wish it on them. 

I don't need/want you to admit you are wrong or to walk anything back. Just back the hell off. I don't care what you think of me and neither does anyone else. 

For me it goes without saying that everyone here wishes everyone else good health and economic security during this time.

yup -- very long post to ignore much of what I said. Really a waste of time.

You compared mentally ill people to pedophiles. I really have no more time to waste on your slithering.

Aristotleded24

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
Pondering wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
 Saying that you think it is poetic justice and you do not wish it on anyone is like putting a straw in your mouth and trying to such and blow at the same time.  

In your opinion Sean. Some people are merciful.  I am able to recognize a "poetic justice" outcome without desiring it. I began by saying I DO NOT WISH THIS ON ANYONE to make that clear. Insisting that you know what I really meant is ridiculous. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
  You are slippery, I'll grant that. But then again whenever you have put up comments and been criticized for them you resort to the same type of responses -- never walking anything back.   

You are so sanctimonious. I have no reason to walk anything back. It is bizarre that getting me to do so is something you focus on. You can't even fathom that I actually genuinely disagree with your assessment or that you could be wrong. You certainly have a healthy ego. 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
  Your garbage about the vote is just that. We do not measure capacity for responsibility when it comes to voting. It is such a bogus tangent for you to follow. The legal issue of responsibility has not stopped people from having the vote and my comment is not going to be more effecitve than the supreme court.  

It may not prevent mentally ill people from voting but it does contribute to prejudice against them. Sane people are perfectly capable of and just as likely to be politically stupid, immoral or amoral. Also, greedy and selfish. I think claims about the mentally ill or a subset of them should be backed by evidence not just theory or "logic". 

Sean in Ottawa wrote:
 Really why not ever, ever, ever just admit that you said something that was off rather than fighting on like this? What you said was offensive and just take the comment without making ridiculous excuses and attacks to run away from it. You would get more respect that way.  

Behaving respectfully towards others on a message board should be a given. 

The thing you are missing here is that I don't give a shit what you think of me. While I appreciate some of your political analysis your demeanor is offensive. I am definitely not seeking your approval of my opinions or behavior. 

Again, this is what I said:

I don't believe in capital punishment nor torture so I wouldn't wish this virus on anyone but it would be poetic justice for some elites to be hit. It is the jet set that delivered this worldwide.

You might want to note I was not referencing Trump nor his followers when I spoke of "poetic justice" and I stated specifically that I did not wish it on them. 

I don't need/want you to admit you are wrong or to walk anything back. Just back the hell off. I don't care what you think of me and neither does anyone else. 

For me it goes without saying that everyone here wishes everyone else good health and economic security during this time.

yup -- very long post to ignore much of what I said. Really a waste of time.

You compared mentally ill people to pedophiles. I really have no more time to waste on your slithering.

We're in the middle of a fucking pandemic that has shut everything down, will continue to do for at least a month, and that is probably going to get worse in all parts of the country after the snowbirds return from the US. Can we please stay focused and keep the petty, personal bullshit off these forums?

contrarianna

Quote:
There are different realities that exist due to past decisions.Canada's economy is entwined with the American economy. Many of the options other countries have are not available and cost benefit is a different calculation for others
There is a difference between shutting the US border between non-essential travel and shutting it to commerce.
Goods shipments between countries is still in place with other countries under Canada's travel ban.

The tourism industry is, or should be, dead for the time being and cross border shopping and social visits should be stopped and this can be done without stopping shipping.

Canada is one of the better countries for for COVID-19 testing, the US is one of the worst so far. BC is on the border of Wash. State one of the US epi-centers for the disease and untested citizens.

The decision to keep the U.S. border open to tourists prompted criticism from British Columbia’s Health Minister Adrian Dix, who told a press conference that they hoped the government would go further.

“We remain concerned that access to visitors from the United States continues to be allowed,” he said. “It is our strong view and our strong message that visitors from the United States not come to British Columbia.”...

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-travel-restrictions-ban-cor...

A useful WaPo article on the series of F**kups by the US and CDC that has left the Canadian border open to untested carriers. It concludes:

....Thomas Frieden, an infectious disease physician who served as CDC director under former president Barack Obama, called on Sunday for an “independent group” to investigate what went wrong with the CDC’s testing process. He said in the past, the CDC moved quickly to produce tests for diseases such as H1N1, or swine flu.

“We were able to get test kits out fast,” Frieden said on CNN. “Something went wrong here. We have to find out why so we can prevent that in the future.”

Frieden said the agency has been muzzled under President Trump and despite the multitude of problems with the rollout of testing, “the CDC is still the greatest public health institution in the world.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/16/cdc-who-coronavirus-t...

 

Sean in Ottawa

contrarianna wrote:

Quote:
There are different realities that exist due to past decisions.Canada's economy is entwined with the American economy. Many of the options other countries have are not available and cost benefit is a different calculation for others
There is a difference between shutting the US border between non-essential travel and shutting it to commerce.
Goods shipments between countries is still in place with other countries under Canada's travel ban.

The tourism industry is, or should be, dead for the time being and cross border shopping and social visits should be stopped and this can be done without stopping shipping.

Canada is one of the better countries for for COVID-19 testing, the US is one of the worst so far. BC is on the border of Wash. State one of the US epi-centers for the disease and untested citizens.

The decision to keep the U.S. border open to tourists prompted criticism from British Columbia’s Health Minister Adrian Dix, who told a press conference that they hoped the government would go further.

“We remain concerned that access to visitors from the United States continues to be allowed,” he said. “It is our strong view and our strong message that visitors from the United States not come to British Columbia.”...

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-travel-restrictions-ban-cor...

A useful WaPo article on the series of F**kups by the US and CDC that has left the Canadian border open to untested carriers. It concludes:

....Thomas Frieden, an infectious disease physician who served as CDC director under former president Barack Obama, called on Sunday for an “independent group” to investigate what went wrong with the CDC’s testing process. He said in the past, the CDC moved quickly to produce tests for diseases such as H1N1, or swine flu.

“We were able to get test kits out fast,” Frieden said on CNN. “Something went wrong here. We have to find out why so we can prevent that in the future.”

Frieden said the agency has been muzzled under President Trump and despite the multitude of problems with the rollout of testing, “the CDC is still the greatest public health institution in the world.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/16/cdc-who-coronavirus-t...

 

I think Canada is anxious to maintain the essential border crossings that you acknowledge exist. It is exempting Americans, I think as a part of managing Trump as well as Covid19. I think difficult decisions are being made under pressure. I agree with your objectives and all you are saying -- but I do not think we are dealing with a rational US government and Canada is struggling to get them to move to what we need and refrain from any US attack on our economy as it is struggling.

I think that the US people are aware that our Tourism industry is more or less shut down. Attractions are closed, restaurants and bars are closed. It is doubtful that there are many people coming that are not the people who would be exempted with a more stringent border crackdown.

I think the goal is for the government to do the most it can to reduce risk - but be mindful of the suffering that Canada will have if the US decides to punish us. The Canadian government with a deficit of 27 billion is announcing tomorow a package of 25 billion. This is when the government has lost billions in revenue. Now this gets added to the national debt and is not ongoing spending but revenge from an insane and cornered US president is something to be avoided unless there is considerable advantage in doing so. 

How many tourists are coming now?

It is likely that the government will have to shut the border completely once it becomes clear in the US how bad things will get to avoid Americans streaming here to get away from home. Putting this off a week when this has not happened yet might reduce the blowback and still protect Canadians. In the meantime Canada is talking to the Americans and they are becoming more realistic as they face the facts as they are evolving in their country.

At this point with community transmission in Canada, it is unlikley that Canada woudl save much in terms of risk by barring the entry to a small number of poeple that would want to come to Canada without a good reason when everything is closed or closing, when they may have trouble getting home, where they might face extreme quarantine measures. I suspect that the government has looked at the people that can move becuase of this more symbolic than practical exemption. the vast majority of people traveling are going home or are essential and would be exempted.

Perhaps I am wrong but this is my impression of the trade-offs. I fully expect the tighening of the border to increase in the coming days.

Aristotleded24

At least 7 new cases in Manitoba today. Yesterday the total case count stood at 8. That's nearly double what we had before.

Pages