Cuban Prison Hunger Striker Orlando Zapata Tamayo Dies

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Fidel

Don't worry, Sven. Because overall, our's are good countries to live and die in. Isn't that right? It's a net plus overall. What more could we ask for really?

Our's is not to question why only trust and obey.

Keep reciting that and it all makes perfect sense.

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

Don't worry, Sven. Because overall, our's are good countries to live and die in. Isn't that right? It's a net plus overall. What more could we ask for really?

Our's is not to question why only trust and obey.

Keep reciting that and it all makes perfect sense.

In other words, your answer is: "No".

Fidel

Sven wrote:
In other words, your answer is: "No".

No. Cuba is a small and politically isolated country in the Caribbean. What country's leaders in the world have never made mistakes? I've already said that it's highly possible Tamayo was abused in prison.

But on the issue of countries known to be prolific workers of wonders and crappers of colossal blunders, at what point do the people begin to wonder if the mistakes are not really mistakes at all but deliberate governmental policies?

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

Sven wrote:
In other words, your answer is: "No".

No. Cuba is a small and politically isolated country in the Caribbean. What country's leaders in the world have never made mistakes? I've already said that it's highly possible Tamayo was abused in prison.

My question was: I'm just curious, Fidel: Are there even just two or three things that the Castro regime does regarding which you have any significant criticisms?

I'm not talking about errors by prison guards...I'm talking about policies and actions of the Castro regime.

So far?  Your answer appears to be: "No".

Doug

There must be something. Perhaps something got painted the wrong colour in Havana.

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

Your questions are not answers. We're looking for answers here for the most part.

My provincial government ordered the first state-sponsored execution of a native person in the 1990's with Dudley George. And the Harrisites have all managed to wangle and weasel their way out of admitting to giving the order to shoot to kill.

We've had deliberate provincial policies for electricity deregulation and agreements for power sales to Northern US states result in the deaths of at least two people in Ontario that I know of.

We've experienced preventable deaths from head injuries in Northern Ontario due to federal level cutbacks, provincial defunding and general all around incompetence in running a health care system in this province by our two old line parties over the years.

We've had thousands of people die of dirty air and even tainted drinking water in Ontario

And yet none of these deliberate and systemic screwups in federal and provincial policies have ever been pinned on our weak and ineffective central governments in Ottawa. Your governments in the US have never chastized or so much as said a bad word about the Chicago School voodoo and rightwing policies for systematic oppression of native people implemented by our stooges in government. Why is that, Sven? Doesn't your government also have a responsibility to promote democracy in the Northern Puerto Rico as well as Cuba 90 miles away from the bankrupt state of Florida? Why all the attention on Cuba and never-ever Bananda?

In other words, your answer is: "No".

Doug wrote:

There must be something. Perhaps something got painted the wrong colour in Havana.

Apparently not.

Fidel

Sven wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Sven wrote:
In other words, your answer is: "No".

No. Cuba is a small and politically isolated country in the Caribbean. What country's leaders in the world have never made mistakes? I've already said that it's highly possible Tamayo was abused in prison.

My question was: I'm just curious, Fidel: Are there even just two or three things that the Castro regime does regarding which you have any significant criticisms?

I'm not talking about errors by prison guards...I'm talking about policies and actions of the Castro regime.

So far?  Your answer appears to be: "No".

Your questions are not answers. We're looking for answers here for the most part.

My provincial government ordered the first state-sponsored execution in one-hundred years of a native person in the 1990's with Dudley George. And the Harrisites have all managed to wangle and weasel their way out of admitting to giving the order to shoot to kill.

We've had deliberate provincial policies for electricity deregulation and agreements for power sales to Northern US states result in the deaths of at least two people in Ontario that I know of.

We've experienced preventable deaths from head injuries in Northern Ontario due to federal level cutbacks, provincial defunding and general all around incompetence in running a health care system in this province by our two old line parties over the years.

We've had thousands of people die of dirty air and even tainted drinking water in Ontario

And yet none of these deliberate and systemic screwups in federal and provincial policies have ever been pinned on our weak and ineffective central governments in Ottawa. Your governments in the US have never chastized or so much as said a bad word about the Chicago School voodoo and rightwing policies for systematic oppression of native people implemented by our stooges in government. Why is that, Sven? Doesn't your government also have a responsibility to promote democracy in the Northern Puerto Rico as well as Cuba 90 miles away from the bankrupt state of Florida? Why all the attention on Cuba and never-ever Bananada?

Fidel

Likewise one-thousand times over.

Quote:
In a study of youthful offenders released from the California Youth Authority in the early 1980s, Pamela Lattimore and her colleagues at the National Institute of Justice discovered that almost 6 percent had died by the early 1990s-most before the age of thirty. (To put the 6 percent figure in perspective, note that it is roughly thirteen times the death rate for black men aged twenty-five to thirty-four in the general population.) Almost half of the deaths were due to homicide; accidents, suicide, drugs, HIV, and "legal intervention"-being killed by the authorities-accounted for most of the rest. The proportions were even higher for black youths living in Los Angeles. "In public health terms," the researchers write, "the morbidity among these young subjects . . . is astonishing." -- excerpted from [url=http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Prison_System/Assess_Prison_Exper_CAPI... and Punishment in America[/url]

And they aren't US dissidents just ordinary American citizens subsisting in inner city ghettos and embroiled in America's racist penal system.

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

Likewise one-thousand times over...

We get it.  You have an unending stream of criticisms of the USA and Canada.  That's cool.

But, I'm just asking you a simple, general question, Fidel: Are there even just two or three substantial things the Castro regime has done over the last 50+ years that you have a significant disagreement with?

Your "sound of silence" on that point can only lead a reasonable person to conclude that your answer is: "No".

Sven Sven's picture

 

Question: Are there even just two or three substantial things the Castro regime has done over the last 50+ years that you have a significant disagreement with?

Answer I: Oh, look over here at what the USA is doing!!

Answer II: Oh, look over here at what our stoogocrats are doing in Bananada!!

Answer III: Oh, look at what the USA is doing to poor Cuba!!

The answers we'll never (apparently) hear are:

Answer A: "No" or

Answer B: "Yes, and here they are: ______________."

And, that leaves us with the unarticulated answer (which Fidel seems incapable of articulating -- or embarrassed to do so) of: "No".

j.m.

*groans* I agree with you, Sven.

Kudos to Fidel for being babble's best politician. He does deflections better than any pro hockey player.

Sven Sven's picture

Seriously, I've never seen a more single-minded, "damn-the-torpedoes" defense of any person, thing, or idea than our Fidel's unwavering defense of everything that Castro (A) has done, (B) is doing, (C) will do, and (D) is considering doing but isn't sure about whether he's going to do it or not.

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel's defense of everything Castro is akin to an ardent Habs fan claiming that the Montreal Canadiens always did, do, and will do everything right in every game and that the only reason they lose games from time to time is because the refs cheat - or the ice was bad - or the players' food was poisoned - or they were playing under the burden of a bad astrological sign - or the stoogocrats in the NHL's NYC office changed a rule unfavorably - or the replay booth in Toronto was filled Canada-hating Americans - or...well, you get the idea.

It would be positively clownish to see a sports fan make such an absolute defense of a sports team.

A_J

Fidel wrote:
US criminal code states that operating on US soil as a paid agent of a foreign government is punishable by ten years in prison.

Interesting to note however that that is not the case in Canada (though I certainly don't have much faith in your ability to properly characterise the law as it exists in the United States). The Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) [those splitters!] has close ties with the Cuban government and co-operates in publishing the English edition of Granma.

Despite working with a foreign government, and helping it distribute its propaganda in Canada, I am not aware of members of the Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) being thrown in jail or killed.

Fidel

Yes, we can't draw anyone's attention to gross violations of prisoner's rights in America, the world's most prolific jailer of its own citizens.

Pointing out that the US Government has attacked Cuba militariliy and fomented US-based terrorism against Cuba and continuing to represent the largest threat to democracy on the Island of Cuba with Guantanamo's gulag for torture and gross human rights abuses is off limits, too.

Because none of those US assaults on democracy and freedom and the very idea of cooperation for humanity's sake made mock of by a vicious empire surrounding Cuba on all sides - has anything remotely to do with why Tamayo is in jail. That Cuba has been laid siege to militarily and economically and by terrorist threats from the mainland is no reason for Cuban leaders to draw inward.

It would be like North Korea turning inward after being threatened with nuclear annihilation dozens of times by a foreign military occupation of the Korean peninisula over the last 50 years and representing the largest threat to peace and democracy in that particular region of the world still.

We might as well bang on the drum all day as discuss the thread topic in a rational way.

Sven Sven's picture

 

Fidel wrote:

Yes, we can't draw anyone's attention to gross violations of prisoner's rights in America, the world's most prolific jailer of its own citizens.

See "Answer I" in Post #110 above.

Fidel wrote:

Pointing out that the US Government has attacked Cuba militariliy and fomented US-based terrorism against Cuba and continuing to represent the largest threat to democracy on the Island of Cuba with Guantanamo's gulag for torture and gross human rights abuses is off limits, too.

See "Answer I" in Post #110 above.

Fidel wrote:

Because none of those US assaults on democracy and freedom and the very idea of cooperation for humanity's sake made mock of by a vicious empire surrounding Cuba on all sides - has anything remotely to do with why Tamayo is in jail.

See "Answer I" in Post #110 above.

Seriously, Fidel, are you embarrassed to answer that question directly?!?

Doug

So if the US disappeared tomorrow everything would be spontaneously wonderful in Cuba? Not that it wouldn't help at all, but I doubt it.

Fidel

Doug wrote:

So if the US disappeared tomorrow everything would be spontaneously wonderful in Cuba? Not that it wouldn't help at all, but I doubt it.

Oh come on! We all know that Poland and Czechoslovakia, Eastern Europe and Russia had nothing to fear in the 1930's while one single European country re-armed for war and threatened other countries with terrorism and war.

US Conservatives and Lib-Dems are waaaaay overreacting to terrorism by building the most overbloated national security bureacracy in world history, while at the same time spending more on weapons and military than all other countries combined.

Democracy is like any other capitalist commodity and should be bought and paid for and protected with exclusive private property rights.

The problem with America forcing its brand of corrupt democracy on other countries is that they don't understand any and all parts of the word "No" when it comes to Cuba. The Cubans have stated time and time again that they don't want US-managed elections in Cuba toward creating another Haiti or another Guatemala or another El Salvador or Honduras or pick any one of those bastions of free trade and gross human rights abuse countries where millions are held prisoners against their will by their own governments and rightwing U.S. policies preventing free flow of labour across Central and North American borders.

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:

The problem with America forcing its brand of corrupt democracy on other countries is that...

See "Answer I" in Post # 110.

Sven Sven's picture

Since our Fidel is too embarrassed to say it himself, let's lend him a helping hand: "I have no substantial criticisms of anything significant which Fidel Castro has ever done."

 

Fidel

Sven wrote:
Since our Fidel is too embarrassed to say it himself, let's lend him a helping hand: "I have no substantial criticisms of anything significant which Fidel Castro has ever done."

There is a lot wrong with Cuba, Sven. Anyone who's ever been there recognizes it almost right away upon landing in the country. You would have a field day pointing out Cuba's deficiencies and lack of things we take for granted in the largest and richest countries endowed with natural resource wealth that is unparalleled in the world. So if your government ever allows American citizens to travel freely to Cuba without fear of fines and government retribution, I think you should go and see for yourself. Because when it comes to Cuba, you are surely one of the most curious babblers.

Lou Arab Lou Arab's picture

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