Demanding an end to Uyghur Oppression

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NorthReport
Demanding an end to Uyghur Oppression
NorthReport
NorthReport
kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/uyghur-oppression-ccp-surveillance-reeduc...

This article is nothing but fake news.

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/concern-98-new-buses-headed-...

The Greater Wellington Regional Council said it would be investigating whether the buses, from Chinese manufacturer CRRC, were made by Uyghur Muslims forced into work.

Since at least 2017, Uyghurs — China’s Muslim minority — have been subjected to a mass surveillance and detention programme in Xinjiang, China's northwest territory.

The first statement is speculation based on reports by a Christian fundamentalist based in the US that have been thoroughly debunked.

The last statement is absolutely true except for the spin. The Uyghurs are not the only Muslim minority in China.

"As of end of 2017, there are 39,019 mosques in China. Majority of the mosques are in Xinjiang which is 24,100. Gansu province has 4,606 mosques. The third is Ningxia Hui autonomous region with 4,203 mosques.

However they live up against the Afghan border and tens of thousand of them have been trained in jihad. The Chinese government has had many foreign delegations through looking at their efforts to de-radicalize the Uyghur population that have been infected by the Saudi terrorist version of the religion. The Islamic countries have been unanimous in their support of the approach being taken.

China will not let the US turn Xinjiang into Syria or Libya. Here is what the game is from the US perspective. I have no doubt that Lawrence Wilkerson - retired United States Army Colonel and former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin Powell understands the power dynamics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBTT827b84

 

NorthReport

Your comment sounds a lot like a comment a recent former US president would make.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/uyghur-oppression-ccp-surveillance-reeduc...

This article is nothing but fake news.

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:
Your comment sounds a lot like a comment a recent former US president would make.
kropotkin1951 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/uyghur-oppression-ccp-surveillance-reeduc...

This article is nothing but fake news.

Sean Roberts is from George Washington University and he does not seem to have actually been to Xinjiang in decades, if ever. That is one grim photo with the barbed wire. Strangely those women are not in a prison but walking around going to one of the oldest and most famous bazaars on the planet.

Here is a little video about a visit there last month from an ex-pat who actually travels in the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW3N7Jj-_T4&list=PLLwyB863VhShCpQ0Z4NHZM...

 

NorthReport

Uyghur genocide

Chinese propaganda campaign

The Chinese government has engaged in a propaganda campaign to defend its actions in Xinjiang.[100][101][102][103] China initially denied the existence of the Xinjiang internment camps and attempted to cover-up their existence.[104] In 2018, after being forced to admit by widespread reporting that the Xinjiang internment camps exist, the Chinese government initiated a propaganda campaign to portray the camps as humane and to deny human rights abuses occur in Xinjiang.[105] In 2020 and 2021 they expanded the propaganda campaign due to international backlash against government policies in Xinjiang[106] and worries that the Chinese government no longer had control of the narrative.[104]

Chinese authorities have also gone on the offensive against critics attacking them on both a professional and personal level.[107] The goal of these attacks seems to be more about silencing further criticism than responding to or refuting specific claims made by critics.[108]

The Chinese government has used social media as a part of its extensive propaganda campaign.[101][109][110][111] China has spent heavily to purchase Facebook advertisements in order to spread propaganda designed to incite doubt on the existence and scope of human rights violations occurring within Xinjiang.[101][111][112] Douyin, the mainland Chinese sister app to ByteDance-owned social media app TikTok, presents users with significant amounts Chinese state propaganda pertaining to the human rights abuses in Xinjiang.[109][113][114] Between July 2019 and early August 2019, CCP-owned tabloid The Global Times paid Twitter to promote tweets that deny that the Chinese government is committing human rights abuses in Xinjiang; Twitter later banned advertising from state-controlled media outlets on 19 August after removing large numbers of pro-Beijing bots from the social network.[115][116]

China has responded to allegations of abuse by women imprisoned in the camp system by mounting explicit attacks on their credibility and character. Instead of directly refuting their accusations Chinese authorities have instead tried to discredit them. Authorities have disclosed what they state is confidential medical information, for instance about one women's fertility and another's STD status, as well as personal information, such as the alleged infidelity of one witness, in order to show that the women where of bad character which in the Authority's view would invalidate their testimonies. They impugned one witness by stating that “Everyone knows about her inferior character. She’s lazy and likes comfort, her private life is chaotic, her neighbours say that she committed adultery while in China.” The released personal information does not in general appear to contradict the testimonies of the witnesses. However, according to the Chinese government “some anti-China forces ignore facts and truth and wantonly fabricate all kinds of Xinjiang-related lies. People of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, including Xinjiang women, live and work in peace and contentment.”[107]

Presentations given by Chinese authorities in an attempt to dispel the allegations of abuse are closed to foreign journalists and feature pre-recorded questions as well as pre-recorded monologues from people in Xinjiang including relatives of witnesses. These efforts to discredit witnesses have been contributed to by both the Xinjiang's publicity department and Ministry of Foreign Affairs.[107]

Chinese government propaganda attacks have targeted international journalists covering human rights abuses in Xinjiang.[117][118][119] After providing coverage critical of Chinese government abuses in Xinjiang, BBC News reporter John Sudworth was subjected to a campaign of propaganda and harassment by Chinese state-affiliated and CCP-affiliated media.[117][120][121] The public attacks resulted in Sudworth and his wife Yvonne Murray, who reports for Raidió Teilifís Éireann, fleeing China for Taiwan for fear of their safety.[120][122]

In April 2021, the Chinese government released propaganda videos titled, "Xinjiang is a Wonderful Land", and produced a musical titled "The Wings of Songs" in order to portray Xinjiang as harmonious and peaceful.[100][123][102] The Wings of Songs portrays an idyllic rural landscape with a cohesive ethnic population notably devoid of repression, surveillance, and Islam.[124]

Counter-terrorism justification

China has used the global "war on terror" of the 2000s to frame "separatist" and ethnic unrest as acts of Islamist terrorism to legitimize its policies in Xinjiang.[125]

In December 2015, the Associated Press reported that China had effectively expelled Ursula Gauthier, a French journalist, "for questioning the official line equating ethnic violence in the western Muslim region with global terrorism."[126] Gauthier, who was the first foreign journalist forced to leave China since 2012, was subject to what the AP described as an "abusive and intimidating campaign" by Chinese state media that accused her of "having hurt the feelings of the Chinese people" and that a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman accused her of emboldening terrorism.[126]

In August 2018, the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination decried the "broad definition of terrorism and vague references to extremism" used by Chinese legislation, noting that there were numerous reports of detention of large numbers of ethnic Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities on the "pretext of countering terrorism".[127]

In 2019, the editorial board of The Wall Street JournalSam Brownback, and Nathan Sales have each said that the Chinese government consistently misuses "counterterrorism" as a pretext for cultural suppression and human rights abuses.[128][129]

In 2021 Shirzat Bawudun, the former head of the Xinjiang department of justice, and Sattar Sawut, the former head of the Xinjiang education department, were sentenced to death on terrorism and extremism charges.[130] Three other educators and two textbook editors were given lesser sentences.[131]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

NorthReport

Canadian couple witnesses to China's 'methodical' repression of Uyghurs

Michel Comte

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-couple-witnesses-to-china-s-metho...

NorthReport

China pressures brands to reject reports of Xinjiang abuses

Emily Wang Fujiyama

 

Published Monday, March 29, 2021 12:11PM EDTH&M

People walk past an H&M clothing store in Hong Kong, Saturday, March 27, 2021. H&M disappeared from the internet in China as the government raised pressure on shoe and clothing brands and announced sanctions Friday, March 26, 2021, against British officials in a spiraling fight over complaints of abuses in the Xinjiang region. (AP Photo/Kin Cheung)

 

BEIJING -- China stepped up pressure Monday on foreign shoe and clothing brands to reject reports of abuses in Xinjiang, telling companies that are targeted by Beijing for boycotts to look more closely and pointing to a statement by one that it found no forced labour.

H&M, Nike, Adidas and other brands are caught in a conflict over Xinjiang after Western governments imposed sanctions on officials accused of abuses. State media called for a boycott of H&M for saying it would no longer use cotton from Xinjiang and are criticizing other brands for expressing concern about reports of forced labour.

“When the stick of sanctions is brandished on Xinjiang, it will also hit your own head,” a spokesman for the Xinjiang regional government, Xu Guixiang, said at a news conference in Beijing.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/china-pressures-brands-to-reject-reports...

NDPP

"...When you parrot State Department lines about how horrible and tyrannical US-targeted governments are, you are helping to circulate the narratives our rulers are spending billions of dollars circulating, and you are doing it for free. You are making the jobs of the imperialists that much easier, because you are [intentionally] operating as a pro bono Pentagon propagandist.

Don't be a Pentagon propagandist, pro bono or otherwise. Don't be an imperial concern troll. Don't let the worst human rights abuser on the face of our planet get away with pretending to support human rights."

https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/worlds-most-tyrannical-regime-cant

kropotkin1951

North Report you missed the worst of it. The Chinese commies are giving their soldiers Viagra so that they can rape more women. The police have been seen throwing babies out of incubators while laughing and drinking. You also missed the dozens of chemical attacks on helpless civilians.

Here is a picture of what a police state looks like when it is enforcing the genocidal theft of an indigenous population's property.

NorthReport

This thread is about Chinese government abuses of minorities.

No one who posts here denies that there has been a serious abuse of minorities in Canada, the US and other democratic societies by people in power, so why would the Chinese Dictators be any different? Of course they are not any different, which begs the question- what's your purpose in your attempts trying to defend the indefensible?

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

I have to say that the first hand accounts from western witnesses have me shaking my head. Most if not all are tied to evangelical movements that have familiarity with China due to their need to spread the word and find converts. And why is 2017 the watershed date for the genocidal treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang? Was everything more or less decent before that date? Did the central government in Beijing change dramatically, calling for the destruction of the Uyghurs?

And yes, there are far more minority groups in China including Muslims in Xian who have been there forever.

NDPP

Perhaps this may help:

"Since the US government initiated its policy of 'great power competition' against China in 2018, it has focused intensively on the resource-rich, strategically located Western autonomous zone of Xinjiang, the site of China's alleged mistreatment of its Uyghur Muslim population..."

Xinjiang Shakedown

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/04/30/xinjiang-forced-labor-china-uyghur/

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
josh

NDPP wrote:

"...When you parrot State Department lines about how horrible and tyrannical US-targeted governments are, you are helping to circulate the narratives our rulers are spending billions of dollars circulating, and you are doing it for free. You are making the jobs of the imperialists that much easier, because you are [intentionally] operating as a pro bono Pentagon propagandist.

Don't be a Pentagon propagandist, pro bono or otherwise. Don't be an imperial concern troll. Don't let the worst human rights abuser on the face of our planet get away with pretending to support human rights."

https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/worlds-most-tyrannical-regime-cant

In order to prevent the pretense of support for human rights we must pretend that it's violation does not exist.

NDPP

Not support for human rights but an attempt to further US geopolitical designs, Yanqui.

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

This thread is about Chinese government abuses of minorities.

No one who posts here denies that there has been a serious abuse of minorities in Canada, the US and other democratic societies by people in power, so why would the Chinese Dictators be any different? Of course they are not any different, which begs the question- what's your purpose in your attempts trying to defend the indefensible?

Your logic is very strange. Because your government is evil ergo it means all governments must be evil.

However you are posting lies about genocide not truths about the ethnic problems that minorities have in China.

The biggest problem though is that even if you accept that all the other secular one party states that we have destroyed in this century because they were authoritarian were indeed evil our actions have killed and displaced millions while none of the evil regimes killed more than thousands.

You don't get to tell other people that they would be better dead than red even if that is the ideology that you were raised with.

So tell me do you think that the change to the one child policy that was made is an abuse of China's minorities? The Chinese government went from a one child policy for Han Chinese and no limitations for ethnic minorities to a single rule for all ethnic groups. All minorities are no longer allowed to have unlimited children but are restricted to the same two children as the Han majority are now allowed. The situation is way more complicated than the US propaganda that you consume likes to portray. Like with Canadian settlers, idiots from the Han majority like to complain on social media about the minority's not only being allowed to have more children but also they have been given institutionalized preferential treatment when applying for the most prestigious universities. So yes the Han majority has bigots who oppose the rights given to minorities so I am sure that they likely have bigots who treat minorites like second class people. However that is not cultural genocide it is normal human society.

 

josh

NDPP wrote:

Not support for human rights but an attempt to further US geopolitical designs, Yanqui.

Flew right over your head, tankie.

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Not support for human rights but an attempt to further US geopolitical designs, Yanqui.

Flew right over your head, tankie.

American fascist.

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

NDPP wrote:

"...When you parrot State Department lines about how horrible and tyrannical US-targeted governments are, you are helping to circulate the narratives our rulers are spending billions of dollars circulating, and you are doing it for free. You are making the jobs of the imperialists that much easier, because you are [intentionally] operating as a pro bono Pentagon propagandist.

Don't be a Pentagon propagandist, pro bono or otherwise. Don't be an imperial concern troll. Don't let the worst human rights abuser on the face of our planet get away with pretending to support human rights."

https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/worlds-most-tyrannical-regime-cant

In order to prevent the pretense of support for human rights we must pretend that it's violation does not exist.

You need to prove that the propaganda you are peddling is more than WMD's, or incubator babies, or Viagra pills for rapists. The people of Iraq and Libya paid dearly for the misinformation campaigns that led to people like you and the NDP in Canada to demand that something be done to save the poor people from their evil governments. So now both are failed states with millions, yes that is millions, of dead and displaced people. WTF, do you think that your amplifying this warmongering has no consequences. Do you think the people of Libya like their country better now. Look at the video I posted and tell me those people will be better off after your regime change installs an Islamic separatist state. Those who do not believe the latest war mongering by your politicians do not need to prove anything. In the meantime there are people who go to Xinjiang and video tape what real life is like. You want me to chose between believing US propaganda and videos coming out of China then give me more than a fundamentalist whack job as your proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7zye-_ogg&t=6s

kropotkin1951

I found this article in the Hong Kong flagship newspaper, the South China Morning Post, to be very well written. The SCMP is not usually very pro-Beijing in its editorial stance which makes this a far more balanced report than most from either the US or the mainland Chinese media. I have tried hard to look at many different reports and this is excellent reporting. Are there problems in Xinjiang, absolutely. There were terrorist attacks and there has been a crackdown to prevent further attacks. The people of China do not need to be saved from their government.

The most alarming attack happened in 2009, when anti-Han Chinese rioting broke out in the Xinjiang capital Urumqi, prompting retaliatory Han attacks on Uygurs, leaving 197 people dead and another 1,721 injured.

The attacks spilled to Beijing in 2013 and a year later to Kunming in southwestern Yunnan province. A series of bomb and knife attacks in Urumqi in the spring of 2014 – on the heels of Xi Jinping’s first visit to the region as president – prompted the leadership to announce a strict crackdown. Police said last month that China’s “battle against terrorism” had been a success, with no terrorist attacks for four consecutive years.

“The situation was very precarious then, as China’s governance of Xinjiang – not to mention stability – became questionable,” said Yin Gang, a Middle East specialist at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. But a major mistake had been a reluctance to be transparent and open about the problem, he said.

“The biggest problem was the lack of transparency, and simplicity and crudeness [in implementing the policies],” said Yin, who has been studying Xinjiang issues for nearly 20 years.

While imposing a news blackout over the incidents and subsequent crackdown had made it easier for Beijing to project an image of stability and unity, experts said the high-handed control and secrecy also bred misunderstanding and gave room for malicious attacks – especially as independent researchers were denied opportunities to understand the real picture on the ground.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3131953/chinas-xinjiang...

 

NorthReport

We have enough problems with lying democratically-elected officials, so why would anyone believe anything coming from dictatorships?

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

We have enough problems with lying democratically-elected officials, so why would anyone believe anything coming from dictatorships?

You are so brain washed you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. The people of China love what their government is doing but don't take my word for it take the word of the Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation at Harvard. This report tries very hard to find that the population is seething and wanting change but they can't because it is not true.

If you believe in democracy why do want our government to overthrow a party that is supported by 90% of its population.

Conclusion: Continued Resilience through Earned Legitimacy

Although China is certainly not immune from severe social and economic challenges, there is little evidence to support the idea that the CCP is losing legitima-cy in the eyes of its people. In fact, our survey shows that, across a wide variety of metrics, by 2016 the Chinese government was more popular than at any point during the previous two decades. On average, Chinese citizens reported that the government’s provision of healthcare, welfare, and other essential public services was far better and more equitable than when the survey began in 2003. Also, in terms of corruption, the drop in satisfaction between 2009 and 2011 was complete-ly erased, and the public appeared generally support-ive of Xi Jinping’s widely-publicized anti-corruption campaign. Even on the issue of the environment, where many citizens expressed dissatisfaction, the majority of respondents expected conditions to improve over the next several years. For each of these issues, China’s poorer, non-coastal residents expressed equal (if not even greater) confidence in the actions of government than more privileged residents. As such, there was no real sign of burgeoning discontent among China’s main demographic groups, casting doubt on the idea that the country was facing a crisis of political legitimacy.

https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf

NorthReport

Everybody is out of step except .....

EU efforts to ratify China investment deal ‘suspended’ after sanctions

Political outreach to promote the massive trade agreement stalls after tit-for-tat sanctions prompted by Beijing’s policy in Xinjiang

The European commission vice-president, Valdis Dombrovskis

The European commission vice-president, Valdis Dombrovskis, says current relations between Brussels and Beijing are not conducive to further work on the trade deal. Photograph: Yves Herman/Reuters

 China affairs correspondent

Tue 4 May 2021 21.14 BST

 

The European Commission has said that efforts to ratify a massive investment deal with China have been in effect suspended after tit-for-tat sanctions were imposed over China’s treatment of its Uyghur population in March.

“We now in a sense have suspended … political outreach activities from the European Commission side,” said the commission’s executive vice-president, Valdis Dombrovskis, on Tuesday. He said that the current state of relations between Brussels and Beijing was “not conducive” for the ratification of the deal, which is known as EU-China comprehensive agreement on investment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/04/eu-suspends-ratification-o...

NorthReport

US efforts to rally allies may not sway China, says Joe Biden’s top Asia official

  • Beijing could double down and ‘some elements of our playbook may require revision’, Kurt Campbell says
  • Multilateralism is still worthwhile and may be needed in the event of ‘an implacable set of circumstances with regard to China’, he adds

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3132284/us-efforts-ral...

NorthReport

If you have nothing to hide.....

What is going on in Xinjiang and who are the Uygur Muslims?

  • China faces international criticism, even accusations of genocide, over its policies in the region, which has a large Muslim population
  • Beijing says it set up ‘re-education’ camps to counter terrorists, but activists say more than a million people have been detained in the facilities

 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3132112/what-going-xinj...

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

If you have nothing to hide.....

What is going on in Xinjiang and who are the Uygur Muslims?

  • China faces international criticism, even accusations of genocide, over its policies in the region, which has a large Muslim population
  • Beijing says it set up ‘re-education’ camps to counter terrorists, but activists say more than a million people have been detained in the facilities

 

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3132112/what-going-xinj...

Says the man who discounts every person who is living in China and who have been in Xinjiang and made videos. Why do you hate the Chinese people so much that you are promoting war with them. Why do you want to see the cities of Xinjiang laid waste like the cities in Syria or Iraq or Libya.

Why are you such a blood thirsty imperialist? Tell me where our intervention has helped the people of a country? Go ahead prove that your bullshit white supremacist view that you know what is right by showing us the glowing example of how the 5Eyes have helped real people in the last two decades. Chile is that the model, how about Brazil or India or Pakistan or Bangladesh or Puerto Rico or Haiti. You have never posted about the plight of the poor people living in those countries. But you do support the oligarchies in Venezuela and want Cuba to become democratic.

Kenney O'Toole is going to be my preferred name for you. We know that you post bad stuff against Trudeau so that proves that you support the Conservatives. You know the same logic that says if I hate Biden I must support Trump.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

So were does Camp Xray (Guantanamo Bay) fall in this moral equation of what constitutes genocide? Factor in the bombings of civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq and Lybia, perhaps we should take the Coalition of the Willing Western Powers to the ICC for genocide and crimes against humanity.

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

If you have nothing to hide.....

What is going on in Xinjiang and who are the Uygur Muslims?

This is an excellent discussion about Xinjiang and what's really going on there. There is no doubt that the Chinese government has been fighting a war against terrorists from the Uyghur community for many years and there is more overt police presence than is the norm in the country. These three ex-pats have been to Xinjiang two of them this month. They seem to have their eyes open. China has stood against the forces that have seen both Syria and Libya destroyed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8qnr8DXZOc

Here is the UN take on the "East Turkestan" separatist group that the US has now delisted as a terrorist group.

EASTERN TURKISTAN ISLAMIC MOVEMENT

In accordance with paragraph 13 of resolution 1822 (2008) and subsequent related resolutions, the ISIL (Da'esh) and Al-Qaida Sanctions Committee makes accessible a narrative summary of reasons for the listing for individuals, groups, undertakings and entities included in the ISIL (Da'esh) and Al-Qaida Sanctions List.

EASTERN TURKISTAN ISLAMIC MOVEMENT

Date on which the narrative summary became available on the Committee's website: 

7 April 2011

Reason for listing: 

The Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement was listed on 11 September 2002 pursuant to paragraphs 1 and 2 of resolution 1390 (2002) as being associated with Al-Qaida, Usama bin Laden or the Taliban for “participating in the financing, planning, facilitating, preparing or perpetrating of acts or activities by, in conjunction with, under the name of, on behalf or in support of” or “otherwise supporting acts or activities of” Al-Qaida (QDe.004).

Additional information: 

The Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) is an organization which has used violence to further its aim of setting up an independent so-called “East Turkistan” within China. Since its establishment, ETIM has maintained close ties with the Taliban, Al-Qaida (QDe.004) and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (QDe.010). It was founded by Hasan Mahsum from Xinjiang, China, who was killed by Pakistani troops in October 2003. ETIM is currently led by Abdul Haq (QDi.268), who was also a member of Al-Qaida’s Shura Council as of 2005.

Since January 2007, ETIM has, again, become active under the sanctuary and with the support of the Taliban and Al-Qaida. Its members have increased to about 200 with the recruitment of some non-Chinese to the organization. Its organizational structure has been strengthened, its scale enlarged, its internal administration has become more sophisticated, and the group has developed its weaponry, equipment and operational capacity.

ETIM is currently active in South Asia, Central Asia and the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region of China.

In recent years, ETIM has set up bases outside China to train terrorists and has dispatched its members to China to plot and execute terrorist acts including bombing buses, cinemas, department stores, markets and hotels. ETIM has also undertaken assassinations and arson attacks and has carried out terrorist attacks against Chinese targets abroad. Among the violent acts committed by ETIM members were the blowing up of the warehouse of the Urumqi Train Station on 23 May 1998, the armed looting of 247,000 RMB Yuan in Urumqi on 4 February 1999, an explosion in Hetian City, Xinjiang, on 25 March 1999 and violent resistance against arrest in Xinhe County, Xinjiang, on 18 June 1999. These incidents resulted in the deaths of 140 people and injuries to 371.

By September 2002, the Chinese police forces had confiscated from ETIM members 98 guns of various types, 4500 antitank grenades, and a large amount of knives, explosive devices and raw materials and equipment for making explosives.

In 2007, ETIM sent its key members into China to establish terrorist training camps and to carry out terrorist training activities. On 5 January 2007, when Chinese authorities made arrests, the group resisted with arms, killing one policeman and injuring another. During this operation, several members of this cell were arrested and a large number of explosives and materials for making explosives were seized.

In 2007, ETIM also started to send its operatives to China to recruit members covertly. In January 2008, Chinese police succeeded in arresting heads and key members of a terrorist cell, discovering several hideouts, and seizing a large number of explosives and materials for making explosives.

At the beginning of March 2008, ETIM sent its operatives to China in an attempt to kidnap foreign reporters, tourists and athletes. This cell covertly collected various materials for making explosives, identified technicians with expertise in making guns and explosives, looked for suicide bombers and attempted to carry out terrorist acts through suicide bombings in Urumqi and other cities inside China. On 26 March 2008, Chinese authorities arrested several cell members and seized a large number of explosives, detonators and other explosive devices.

In early January 2008, Abdul Haq directed ETIM’s military commander to attack cities in China, particularly focusing on the eight cities hosting the 2008 Olympic Games. Under Abdul Haq’s direction, trained terrorists planned to sabotage the Games by conducting terrorist attacks in China shortly before they were due to begin.

After the Beijing Olympics, ETIM continued to send members into China, ostensibly for commercial activities, but in fact to look for opportunities to plan and carry out further terrorist attacks, such as car bombings, suicide bombings and poisoning. The organization trained more than 20 terrorists to execute car bombings in China.

Since 2008, ETIM has published several terrorist videos on military training, targeting the Beijing Olympics and other events in China. In July and August 2009, ETIM published four videos showing its training activities, with Abdul Haq and other ETIM leaders making speeches inciting Uygurs to launch violent acts against China.

There is evidence indicating that ETIM members also took steps to plan attacks against the interests of the United States, including the United States Embassy in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. On 22 May 2002, two suspected ETIM members were deported to China from Kyrgyzstan on the ground that they were planning terrorist attacks. The Kyrgyz government stated that the two men were planning to target embassies in Bishkek, as well as trade centers and public gathering places. One of them, Mamet Yasyn was found to have conducted surveillance of several embassies and market places.

ETIM has a close financial relationship with Al-Qaida. The major sources of funding for ETIM activities came from Usama bin Laden (deceased) and Al-Qaida and from organized crime such as drug trafficking, arms smuggling, kidnapping, extortion and looting. ETIM identifies and recruits criminals and terrorists who have fled China and secretly provides them with terrorist training.

ETIM has received significant support from Al-Qaida and the Taliban, and previously from Usama bin Laden and has sent its members to Al-Qaida and Taliban training camps. Upon completion of training, ETIM members have traveled to Afghanistan, Kashmir, Chechnya of the Russian Federation, and China to conduct terrorist and other violent acts. ETIM is also considering using Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan as transit routes for the illegal transfer of fighters to China.

melovesproles

NorthReport wrote:

Uyghur genocide

Chinese propaganda campaign

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

And NorthReport's wikipedia article is extensively using Adrian Zenz as a source for its claims. Someone whose other published works include why not everyone who believes in the rapture is going to be raptured. Also a Senior Member of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation.

 

In 2016, the Dissident blog of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation made an effort to compile updated ranges of estimates and concluded that the overall range "spans from 42,870,000 to 161,990,000" killed, with 100 million the most commonly cited figure.[12] According to anthropologist Kristen Ghodsee and professor Scott Sehon, the 100 million estimate favored by the organization is dubious, they may be lower, as their source for this is the controversial introduction to the The Black Book of Communism by Stéphane Courtois.[13] Ghodsee and Sehon also write that "quibbling about numbers is unseemly. What matters is that many, many people were killed by communist regimes."[13]

According to Ghodsee and Sehon, the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation is a conservative anti-communist organization which seeks to equate communism with murder, such as by erecting billboards in Times Square which declare "100 years, 100 million killed" and "Communism kills".[13] Ghodsee posits that the foundation, along with counterpart conservative organizations in Eastern Europe, seeks to institutionalize the "Victims of Communism" narrative as a double genocide theory, or the moral equivalence between the Nazi Holocaust (race murder) and those killed by Communist regimes (class murder).[13][14] In her view these are suspect efforts to distract from the global financial crisis and the failures of neoliberalism.[14] In April 2020, the organization announced they would be adding the global victims of the COVID-19 pandemic to their death toll of Communism, blaming the Chinese government for the outbreak and every death caused by it.[15][16]

[snip]

Truman-Reagan Medal of Freedom

The Foundation annually presents its Truman-Reagan Medal of Freedom at an event which honors opponents of communism and has been used to raise funds for the construction of the memorial.[23] Past recipients include Myroslav MarynovychChen GuangchengTom LantosPope John Paul IIVaclav HavelYang JianliFr. Nguyen Van LyYelena BonnerWilliam F. Buckley Jr., Richard Pipes, Guillermo FariñasLane KirklandArmando ValladaresJános HorváthLech WałęsaAnna WalentynowiczNational Endowment for Democracy, and Henry M. Jackson.[23][24][25][26][27]

The role of Zenz in pushing the most extreme version of what is happening with the Uyghurs has been pointed out several times on babble and there has been zero effort by those who agree with the narrative to explain why Zenz should be considered a credible source or at the very least why those making that case keep quoting him.

This is the kind of media literacy they teach in kindergarten now but North Report and Josh don't seem to have gotten the memo.

kropotkin1951

These kid's parents used to live in Xinjiang. Syria has been plagued by them since they were driven out of China and Pakistan. Terrorism is a real thing and it destroys countries.

https://news.siteintelgroup.com/Jihadist-News/tip-division-in-syria-rele...

kropotkin1951

Here is a Youtube video that shows how stupid the propaganda is about Xinjiang. Pictures of Han Chinese picking cotton for what they think is good money are used to show forced labour but not the ones where you can see her smiling face. I hope that this video with the Putin quotes at the end does not lead to Kenney O'Toole's head exploding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k79hE9YmCw

Keith McClary

kropotkin1951 wrote:

These kid's parents used to live in Xinjiang. Syria has been plagued by them since they were driven out of China and Pakistan. Terrorism is a real thing and it destroys countries.

https://news.siteintelgroup.com/Jihadist-News/tip-division-in-syria-rele...

According this they are recruited to go to Syria to learn terrorism.

AP Exclusive: Uighurs fighting in Syria take aim at China

https://apnews.com/article/79d6a427b26f4eeab226571956dd256e

kropotkin1951

That is my understanding as well. The "Free East Turkestan" groups are either in the US or Turkey. Turkey did a lot  of the training of these terrorists and provides logistical and other supports. This article tells the story of the "freedom fighters" I notice that it is from 2017. The Chinese definitely engaged in a major crackdown in the face of hundreds of civilian deaths prior to this and I believe they agreed with the predictions. Combining those attacks with the pictures coming out of Damascus  highlighted to the Chinese the consequences of not acting quickly and decisively.

I am torn because I am sure that some people rights were trampled on in the process, however I don't believe the West's numbers when it comes to people in detention centers since it is clear the reporters have no interest in differentiating between maximum security prisons for criminals, vocational training programs available to all citizens (they have been an integral part of China's poverty alleviation strategy for twenty years) and terrorism related incarceration and retraining. However instead of the bombed out cities in Syria and Libya the citizens living in the cities in Xinjiang have not suffered a terrorist attack in four years. The right to never be detained arbitrarily is clearly pitted against the right to go about ones business without fear of dying in a terrorist attack conducted by a neighbour with a enheightened sense of entitlement.

Many Uighur militants have grown tired of the war and are looking to leave particularly as Assad’s forces gain the upper hand, says Seyit Tumturk, a Uighur activist in Turkey who often speaks to fighters in Syria.

He said it was impossible for Uighurs militants to liberate Xinjiang, currently blanketed with paramilitary forces and riot police. But he said Chinese President Xi Jinping’s ambitious project to develop railway lines, ports, and other infrastructure linking various regions to China makes Beijing vulnerable to militant attacks abroad.

The Islamic State took credit in June for kidnapping and killing two Chinese teachers in Pakistan’s Baluchistan province, which is a cornerstone of Beijing’s so-called Belt and Road infrastructure project. In Kyrgyzstan, state security say a suicide bombing of the Chinese embassy in Bishkek was ordered by Uighur terrorist groups active in Syria and financed by al-Qaida’s Nusra Front.

Chinese officials and Western analysts alike say that the Uighurs’ experience in the Syrian jihadi melting pot will likely exacerbate violence against “soft” targets outside China. China’s foreign ministry called the Turkistan Islamic Party a security threat for the Middle East.

“We hope our brothers, including Syria and Turkey, will work with us, strengthen cooperation and cut off the terrorists’ cross-border movements and safeguard regional stability,” the ministry said in a faxed statement in response to questions from the AP.

The ministry did not address questions about the causes of radicalization but said that China’s government has invested heavily in Xinjiang’s economic development, protected its minorities’ rights and treated them just as every other ethnic group.

“Of course, when there are those who try to create tension in Xinjiang, the Chinese government’s commitment to striking against violent terror and ethnic splittism is unquestioned,” it said.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

That is my understanding as well. The "Free East Turkestan" groups are either in the US or Turkey. Turkey did a lot  of the training of these terrorists and provides logistical and other supports. This article tells the story of the "freedom fighters" I notice that it is from 2017. The Chinese definitely engaged in a major crackdown in the face of hundreds of civilian deaths prior to this and I believe they agreed with the predictions. Combining those attacks with the pictures coming out of Damascus  highlighted to the Chinese the consequences of not acting quickly and decisively.

I am torn because I am sure that some people rights were trampled on in the process, however I don't believe the West's numbers when it comes to people in detention centers since it is clear the reporters have no interest in differentiating between maximum security prisons for criminals, vocational training programs available to all citizens (they have been an integral part of China's poverty alleviation strategy for twenty years) and terrorism related incarceration and retraining. However instead of the bombed out cities in Syria and Libya the citizens living in the cities in Xinjiang have not suffered a terrorist attack in four years. The right to never be detained arbitrarily is clearly pitted against the right to go about ones business without fear of dying in a terrorist attack conducted by a neighbour with a enheightened sense of entitlement.

Many Uighur militants have grown tired of the war and are looking to leave particularly as Assad’s forces gain the upper hand, says Seyit Tumturk, a Uighur activist in Turkey who often speaks to fighters in Syria.

He said it was impossible for Uighurs militants to liberate Xinjiang, currently blanketed with paramilitary forces and riot police. But he said Chinese President Xi Jinping’s ambitious project to develop railway lines, ports, and other infrastructure linking various regions to China makes Beijing vulnerable to militant attacks abroad.

The Islamic State took credit in June for kidnapping and killing two Chinese teachers in Pakistan’s Baluchistan province, which is a cornerstone of Beijing’s so-called Belt and Road infrastructure project. In Kyrgyzstan, state security say a suicide bombing of the Chinese embassy in Bishkek was ordered by Uighur terrorist groups active in Syria and financed by al-Qaida’s Nusra Front.

Chinese officials and Western analysts alike say that the Uighurs’ experience in the Syrian jihadi melting pot will likely exacerbate violence against “soft” targets outside China. China’s foreign ministry called the Turkistan Islamic Party a security threat for the Middle East.

“We hope our brothers, including Syria and Turkey, will work with us, strengthen cooperation and cut off the terrorists’ cross-border movements and safeguard regional stability,” the ministry said in a faxed statement in response to questions from the AP.

The ministry did not address questions about the causes of radicalization but said that China’s government has invested heavily in Xinjiang’s economic development, protected its minorities’ rights and treated them just as every other ethnic group.

“Of course, when there are those who try to create tension in Xinjiang, the Chinese government’s commitment to striking against violent terror and ethnic splittism is unquestioned,” it said.

That 2017 date seems to be a watershed moment. As I mentioned before:

"And why is 2017 the watershed date for the genocidal treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang? Was everything more or less decent before that date? Did the central government in Beijing change dramatically, calling for the destruction of the Uyghurs?"

Aristotleded24

This is why left wing and right wing ideologies are problematic. With the contest between China and the United States for global domination heating up, each side has picked a side in this contest. People on the right will extoll and sing the praises of the American system of government, while demonizing China as evil. People on the left pick the reverse position. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." It's a petty partisan tribal pissing match, as can be seen by the name-calling and insults flown back and forth in this thread. The truth is often more nuanced. When we talk about abuses of power by the Chinese Communist Party, it's impossible to ignore the role that Western corporations (for example, Big Tech) played a role in facilitating such abuses. While Big Tech helped give rise to blogs and online publishing that allowed more diversity of views to be seen in the Western world, at the same time they were also helping China censor the Internet, censorship which is now coming home to roost in the West. The same with the trade deals. The reason companies went overseas to China in the first place was to make profits off of low environmental and labour standards. Sanctions applied to companies doing business with shady governments and shady organizations were also not well-enforced by the United States government. The Wuhan lab at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak controversey was funded by none other than Dr. Fauci. So is China a brutal, authoritarian dictatorship? Absolutely, but they've done so with a great deal of assistance from Western elites. It's also noteworthy that China has connections to the World Economic Forum, which is using the current covid crisis to bring about The Great Reset.

I accept that, being saturated with the American worldview of things, that my perspective on China may be biased, and so I'm always open to learning more or hearing new perspectives. At the same time, that doesn't mean I'm prepared to overlook atrocities commited by the Chinese government simply out of spite for the US. I have a long list of issues with what Western governments have done and continue to do (and after 2020 they certainly have no business lecturing China on human rights violations) but that doesn't mean I'm prepared to accept what China does. It's true that China is not nearly as openly violent and militaristic on the world stage as the US (China learned after the Tianamen Square massacre of 1989 that open brute force is bad PR) but there are many other ways to be dominant and controlling without being explicitly violent or threatening. China understands the use of soft power in achieving its foreign policy goals. The United States, on the other hand, only understands the use of brute military force. The danger is as the balance of global power tips away from the United States, it will respond the only way it knows how, which will be to lash out militariliy. That will cause massive human suffering and loss of life. Should that happen, communism would prevail over democracy within the United States, and most likely the rest of the world as well.

Aristotleded24
NorthReport

If you have nothing to hide.........

China urges U.N. states not to attend Xinjiang event on Uyghur repression next week

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7845246/china-un-event-uyghurs/

NorthReport

‘They are in no hurry’: Beijing plays the long game as Canadians languish in China’s prisons

 

 The detention and secretive trials of the two Michaels in China have made international headlines, but there are more than 100 Canadians being held there. That includes Huseyin Celil, who was imprisoned more than 15 years ago after speaking out on behalf of the Uyghur Muslim minority.​

The “Two Michaels,” Canadians Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor, have garnered international attention. Their arrests in December 2018 were widely seen as retaliation for the arrest of Chinese telecom executive Meng Wanzhou by the RCMP in Vancouver at the behest of the United States.

Michael Kovrig’s wife says she hopes Biden’s ‘powerful’ words will lead to action

But when Kamila Telendibaeva hears the Michaels’ names mentioned repeatedly by political leaders and journalists, she has mixed emotions.

“I feel sorry for the Michaels, I feel really sorry,” she says. “But when I hear the Michaels’ case, I always think: ‘Where’s Huseyin’s case? Why they don’t want to bring it up? Why they don’t want to raise it?’ It hurts. He’s a Canadian.”

Kamila’s husband, Huseyin Celil, is a Canadian from Burlington, Ont., whose imprisonment by Beijing is now entering its 16th year.

Celil is a Uyghur Muslim arrested in 2006 in Uzbekistan, where he was visiting his wife’s family. He was then taken to China. Canadian consular officials were unable to block his extradition and Celil has been locked up in China ever since, his exact whereabouts unknown.

Beijing has not granted him a single consular visit in all of that time. His case has garnered far less attention in recent years and is largely unknown to Canadians.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7840761/china-treatment-canadian-prisoners/

kropotkin1951

We all know the extradition case is bullshit but I am sure China would trade two low level 5Eyes operatives to get back a CFO.

 

NDPP

[quote=NorthReport]

If you have nothing to hide.........

China urges U.N. states not to attend Xinjiang event on Uyghur repression next week

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/7845246/china-un-event-uyghurs/

 

[quote=NDPP]

re your fake news

'Atrocities Against Uyghurs': an Anti-China Farce

https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1390582797052514305

"China had invited some US politicians who claim to care about human rights in Xinjiang to attend Thursday's video press meeting held by the Chinese Embassy in the US but almost no one showed up which exposed the hypocrisy and ulterior motives."

kropotkin1951

Here is an excellent post showing the bright future that North Report and the NDP caucus hope for Xinjiang. It's been a decade of complete chaos but that is nothing compared to the inhumanity that the non-NATO dictator inflicted on his people. Cheap housing, free education and free health care are irrelevant compared to the feeling of living in a Western backed shit hole on the way to a democratic nirvana. The people of Xinjiang will be as grateful as the people of Libya.

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Libyans-Struggling-in-Poverty-10-Yea...

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

If you have nothing to hide.........

You invite in real diplomats not cold war warriors and they look for themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeGipO6-gU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3N04TYE_Ho

NDPP

WATCH: "Funny how the US [and Canadian stooges] pretend to care about Muslims in China while funding [even recruiting!] the Israeli occupation forces terrorizing Muslims inside one of the holiest mosques in the world."

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1390859695720734720

Notice how some 'leftists' only attack 'oppression' designated by imperial msm while carefully avoiding others?

Aristotleded24

NorthReport wrote:
https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/uyghur-oppression-ccp-surveillance-reeduc...

From the opening of the article:

Quote:
We can oppose the saber-rattling and militarism of the US’s China hawks without downplaying the oppression of the Uyghur people.

I agree. Situations are nuanced. Life is complex. Let's learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.

NDPP

Ah the much beloved nervous liberal solution to the quandry of  dodgy American propaganda dangerously exposed.  Split the difference. I begin to see why NR posts Jacobin so much now. The new 'Guardian'?

kropotkin1951

Aristotleded24 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/uyghur-oppression-ccp-surveillance-reeduc...

From the opening of the article:

Quote:

We can oppose the saber-rattling and militarism of the US’s China hawks without downplaying the oppression of the Uyghur people.

I agree. Situations are nuanced. Life is complex. Let's learn to walk and chew gum at the same time.

I think that the first step is researching the issue beyond the regime change media in the West. The French are fighting terrorism from within a segment of their Moslem minority and they are using many of the same measures as the Chinese in Xinjiang.  The Americans are three centuries into a cultural and genocidal system that continues to incarcerate more people per capita than any other regime on the planet. On the prairies where you live around 90% of women in prisons are indigenous and the numbers are even worse for indigenous youth in the prison system.

I guess the problem I have is that objectively it seems the Chinese are less brutal than we are. Strange how the imperial media condemns a policy in China and praises the same policy in France. It seems that the people that might be affected are not as enthused as some. But hey lets not do any analysis lets just be King Solomon and cut the baby in half.

France is home to 5 million Muslims, many of whom live in poorer areas, are marginalized in political circles, and socially separate from other French residents.

Macron said that France would not “give in” by balking at or criticizing the caricatures and pledged to tackle Islamic separatism in the country, sparking demonstrations and triggering boycotts in Muslim-majority countries.

Leaders in countries including Egypt, Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey urged Muslims to boycott French products after condemning Macron’s comments on Islam.

“In the days since the horrific murder of educator Samuel Patty (sic) the French government has expanded its embrace of anti-Muslim bigotry by arresting numerous French Muslims with no apparent connection to the crime and moving to shut down various French Muslim organizations, including the country’s largest anti-Islamophobia group,” Mitchell, with CAIR, said.

https://localnews8.com/news/2020/11/01/muslim-advocacy-group-advises-ame...

The French tried a volunteer approach but they seem to have come to the conclusion that asking jihadists to voluntarily stop being fanatics didn't work so well. They now seem to have adopted the detention part of the Chinese model but without actively doing poverty alleviation in the community which is the other thing the Chinese have been focusing on since 2017.

Benbassa said that the government's deradicalization program was ill-conceived and rushed for political reasons amid a growing jihadist threat. "The government was in panic as a result of the jihadist attacks," she said. "It was the panic that guided its actions. Political time was short, it was necessary to reassure the general public."

French-Iranian Sociologist Farhad Khosrokhavar, an expert in radicalization, told France 24 that the government's only option for dealing with hardcore jihadists is to lock them up:

"Some people can be deradicalized, but not everyone. It's impossible with the hardcore jihadists, those who are totally convinced. These types of profiles are very dangerous and represent about 10% to 15% of those who have been radicalized. Prison might be one of the only ways of dealing with these die-hard believers."

In an interview with L'Obs, Benbassa said the government has also failed to address prevention:

"Young candidates for jihadism must be socialized. We must teach them a profession, professionalize them and offer them an individualized follow-up. This involves the help of the family, imams, local police officers, educators, psychologists and business leaders, who can also intervene....

"I also think that our political leaders should adopt a little sobriety and humility when approaching this complex phenomenon. The task is extremely difficult. 'Deradicalizing' someone does not happen in six months. These people, who have not been given an ideal and who have clung to Islamic State's ideology, are not going to get rid of it just like that. There is no 'Open Sesame.'"

Senator Philippe Bas, the head of the Senate committee that commissioned the report, described the government's deradicalization program this way: "It is a total fiasco. Everything must be rethought, everything must be redesigned from scratch."

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9982/france-deradicalization

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