Demanding an end to Uyghur Oppression

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melovesproles

josh wrote:

melovesproles wrote:

josh wrote:

As is well known, for some years now highly politicised anti-Chinese propaganda campaigns have targeted the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, often spreading groundless, non-verifiable or outright false information, triggering on these bases a sanctions war and causing serious damage to international relations. There is a dramatic lack of unbiased and alternative documentation on the topic, especially by researchers who have lived and studied in China and Xinjiang.

Yes, I see they came to it from an unbiased perspective.

Are you saying that if the researchers lived and studied in the US, they would be more 'unbiased'? 

No, I'm saying they didn't set out to do an unbiased report.

How does one 'set out to be unbiased'? Meditation? A rejection of the 'self''? A variety of authors with different conflicting perspectives? 

Or are we just talking about biases that are more in line with your own?

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

So only the Hans women were abused. That isn't better. 

The one child policy was a very authoritarian and repressive policy. That was not genocide but population control. The Uyghur's like all 52 ethnic minorities were spared the worst effects of it. India is set to overtake China's population and a large percentage of them are living in extreme poverty. The average Chinese person lives ten years longer than the average Indian. China with its polices has eliminated extreme poverty and is looking at peaking in population before 2025 while India is still on an upwards trajectory. Is it better to have no population control and starving masses or population control with strict measures that bring prosperity and long life to the people who are born?

It doesn't excuse abuse. I'm surprised at you. It has been shown that simply offering women birth control and offering a better future for the children they do have works remarkably well. Women have many children on farms because families need workers to survive. Now their population is aging which will lead to a shortage of workers to support children, the elderly and the infirm. Children are necessary. Will they start forcing or coercing women into having more children? No thanks. As a woman, I'll take Canada or even the US over that. 

If they started castrating men to keep them docile I bet they would become the evil empire very quickly. It makes sense to do as there are an excess of young men given that girls were killed because if you could only have one child it had to be a boy. 

But even in China, the patriarchy reigns. Even here on this board what happens to women, 50% of the population, is a side issue justifiable because it happened at the same time as lifting people out of poverty. 

I definitely would not be in favor of the Canadian government being able to sterilize women against their will. That would certainly reduce poverty among indigenous peoples. 

It is our exported pollution and rampant consumption of disposible goods that has lifted China out of poverty and condemned many North Americans to low-wage service jobs. Mass industrialization on the backs of workers both in China and here. Yay China.

There is no such thing as good oligarchs. China has them too.  China shouldn't be demonized but it shouldn't be worshipped either.

NDPP

An Analysis Report on Population Change in Xinjiang

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1212073.shtml

"Recently, the population issue concerning Xinjiang has attracted much attention. This paper provides an overview of the population change in Xinjiang, analyses reasons for the rapid population growth in southern Xinjiang, and expounds the rationality of the general trend of population change in Xinjiang..."

kropotkin1951

Pondering wrote:

It doesn't excuse abuse. I'm surprised at you. It has been shown that simply offering women birth control and offering a better future for the children they do have works remarkably well.

...

I definitely would not be in favor of the Canadian government being able to sterilize women against their will. That would certainly reduce poverty among indigenous peoples. 

I have never said I supported the one child policy. I was merely pointing out that it is ridiculous to claim genocide against ethnic minorities is the intent of the government when the most repressive population controls were not applied to them. However I also do not support the fundamentalist in most countries like India who restrict their women's right to access birth control because of religious prohibitions. In rural Xinjiang the government has provided access to birth control so those women have a choice now and are not dominated by the local religious zealots.

There is zero evidence of forced sterilization in China. That is what the reports above are showing including the statistical analysis in the post above.

kropotkin1951

Here is an American left program piling on in the debunking of this new cold war propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tCuZu_U9rk

Pondering

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Pondering wrote:

It doesn't excuse abuse. I'm surprised at you. It has been shown that simply offering women birth control and offering a better future for the children they do have works remarkably well.

...

I definitely would not be in favor of the Canadian government being able to sterilize women against their will. That would certainly reduce poverty among indigenous peoples. 

I have never said I supported the one child policy. I was merely pointing out that it is ridiculous to claim genocide against ethnic minorities is the intent of the government when the most repressive population controls were not applied to them. However I also do not support the fundamentalist in most countries like India who restrict their women's right to access birth control because of religious prohibitions. In rural Xinjiang the government has provided access to birth control so those women have a choice now and are not dominated by the local religious zealots.

There is zero evidence of forced sterilization in China. That is what the reports above are showing including the statistical analysis in the post above.

There are certainly missing baby girls. I think rather than taking the approach that Canada shouldn't be throwing stones I prefer the opposite approach. There is good reason to throw stones at China, Canada, the US, the UK, Russia and every other country I can think of. 

China is going to be demonized for economic reasons. I understand countering that but the seeming insistence that China is superior to the western world in every way isn't credible and makes defence of China less credible. 

To some extent I think it isn't going to matter. Trump supporters believe in Trump because they want to. They are afraid that white people will become a minority, which they will. China does have the potential to be the next economic superpower and that is scary. For that reason any excuse will be a good excuse to rein them in. 

kropotkin1951

Pondering wrote:

There are certainly missing baby girls. I think rather than taking the approach that Canada shouldn't be throwing stones I prefer the opposite approach. There is good reason to throw stones at China, Canada, the US, the UK, Russia and every other country I can think of. 

China is going to be demonized for economic reasons. I understand countering that but the seeming insistence that China is superior to the western world in every way isn't credible and makes defence of China less credible.

China is not better than all countries and I don't think I have ever said that. However it is far superior, in my view, to India and Brazil and Bangladesh and Pakistan and clearly since all those countries have been blessed with "democracy" from their former colonial masters it is an interesting comparison of different political systems.

China is an authoritarian state just as is South Korea and Japan and Vietnam and Indonesia and the Philippines and Singapore. Its definitely an Asian thing that if your government says this is a public policy then you are expected to follow it and there are consequences if you don't.

I think we need to stop throwing stones and go back to the UN 's original spirit of non-interference in the affairs of sovereign states. If we stopped that first then maybe we could get to solving the common problems of humanity instead of pointing fingers at other people and demanding they change.

NDPP

"...Beaten for speaking their language, forced into another religion, washed because they were 'dirty'? We had no option, says chief of Covessess First Nation. The government enforced it."

https://twitter.com/LiuXininBeijing/status/1419663643432476674

Foster Care is Modern Day Residential School System

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/foster-care-is-modern-day-residential-s...

Indigenous Women Still Forced, Coerced into Sterilization

https://globalnews.ca/news/792048/indigenous-women-sterilization-senate-...

China's Uyghur 'genocide' remains unproven and doubtful. Canada's genocide is real, the world now knows it and wonders why Canadians didn't/don't stop it. The obvious conclusion is unfortunately, probably correct.

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