Gaza and Israel IV

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thight1

Today 26 roman candles were fired at Israel and landed on an empty lot.

You PC people amaze me.
 How can the world not see the injustice?
 May it be because the zionists control the press?
 May it be because they control ALL western governments?
 A country of 5 million yet every leader of state must bow down to them.
 Waiting to be banned.

Michelle

Wait no longer.

Sephardi

They have lied so much that nothing the Israelis say can be taken at face value any more. As long as they need the so-called rocket attacks to justify their genocide of the Palestinian people they will continue getting rocket attacks.

It's that simple.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

The small dead bodies were laid next to one another on the tiled floor
of the morgue corridor, the blood drained from their cheeks. One had a
bandage still wrapped around his head, another lay with his mouth
half-open in his oversized, bloodstained clothes.

'As I ran I saw three of my children. All dead'

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Warning: shocking photos:

http://guerrillaradio.iobloggo.com/

The blog is written in Italian by Vittorio Arrigoni is an Italian
volunteer with the International Solidarity
Movement since 2003. 

From an English blog entry:

Quote:
...

Myself and my companions are aware of the enormous risk we’re coming
up against, this night more than any other. But we’re more at ease in
the midst of this Gazan hell than relaxing in a metropolitan heaven in
Europe or America, celebrating the New Year and not really
understanding just how much we would be compliant with and contribute
to the cause of the killing of all these innocent civilians.

stay human

http://www.freegaza.org/index.php?module=latest_news&id=ef5cd275a9e12f39... 

 

Sven Sven's picture

Arsalan Iftikhar (of TheMuslimGuy.com) has written a good piece that underscores the fact that a military “solution” is not, in fact, a solution at all: See his comments here

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Cueball Cueball's picture

Being a "native informant" is a well paid job if you can get it.

LeighT

OPERATION INSTIGATION

it's been said earlier in different forms, but it is very disturbing that reports are coming through CBC, not sure if they're true, that an Al-Queda leader is calling for attack of Israeli and Western targets more broadly.

this would not be good, and would lead eventually, as we all know, to increased US military presence in the Middle East, and environs. Of course the goal of this increased military presence would be to ensure corporate control of resources.   

The dillying internationally is intentional.  To really tick people off more broadly, so they react, so they can be REALLY squashed.  AND EVEN MORE RESOURCES STOLEN and more control generated for the few financiers who are now competing to control what is left of the earth's imploding loaf.  Those financiers that is, who are left when it's over.

We must save them from themselves.  (kidding).

No,actually, we have to press even harder in the international community for ACTION not REACTION.  to prevent said scenario from developing further because it will mean untold further massacres, war, and uncontrolled private corporate environmental exploitation.

we need direct action, which includes any and all communications to any and all people who can possibly help in this situation.

thanks for everyone's work on many fronts to date and ongoing.

LeighT

I must add that it bothers me immensely when i hear the heavy-duty overhead military transports here- not near but on the Trenton air-base flight path.

This evening, to try and clear my brain and soul, i walked long and hard, and in the process saw more than a few hefty planes coming in, one which was very unusual, like a big transport but with mega engines and a very bizarre-looking tail.  these flights continually remind me what it must feel like on the ground in attacked countries.  and the busier Trenton gets, the more war we're getting into.

Madwow

Cueball wrote:
Being a "native informant" is a well paid job if you can get it.

His information not to your liking?

Ghislaine

It's Me D wrote:

Quote:
The rocket attacks actually mean sfa, BTW.

They are like car accidents... which are also unexpected (Realigned)... except that less people in Israel die of the rocket attacks.

 

They are not like car accidents. One is an accident, the other is intentional. Big difference, with a moral component. You could perhaps compare them to car accidents as a result of drunk driving, however most drunk drivers that cause death did not mean to. 

Tom Vouloumanos

I cannot understand this obsession with the rockets.

Palestinians are an imprisoned people.  They have lived under the Israeli gun for 40 years.  The West Bank is under military occupation.  Gaza is a militarily entrapped zone.  To speak about a conflict is absurd, this is simply the case of an enslaved, an imprisoned, a dominated, a subjugated people who want to be free of this domination. 

 We must stop changing the subject. 

The rockets, the suicide bombs are the result of Israel's ruthless illegal rule over Palestine. Hamas is launching rockets because Israel has sealed Gaza from the rest of the world, it is under a blockade.  The conditions of these people are worsening: malnourishment, disease, overpopulation, lack of clean water and starvation.  The blockade brings sickness and death.  Hamas retaliates. Israel then bombs.  Palestinians are fighting back. Of course, we deplore terrorism, but that's not the subject, it is a logical consequence of occupation and military rule.  What else would one expect to happen?

 The only issue here is Freedom for Palestine, let these people be free, like any other people.  40 years is enough.

All the other talk by so-called commentators is merely a decoy, a trick to change the subject since the brutal occupation of Palestine cannot be justified neither legally nor morally. 

We must debate two issues:

1-  How do we get the Canadian government to send medicine, blood and other humanitarian aid to the imprisoned Gazans immediately.

2- How to campaign for the Freedom of Palestine as recognized by the world in accordance UN Res, 242 save the US and Israel.

 This has nothing to do with rockets and such nonsense, look at what some of the targets that have been bombed:

 http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/20173

December 27-28/08
-Palestinian Police Headquarters
-Rafah Police Station
-Saraya Security Compound
-Beit Hanoun municipal building
-Rafah governorate offices
-A police jeep in Gaza City
-The Palestinian Ministry of Prisoners' Affairs
-Greenhouses in Alqarrara
-Charity offices throughout Gaza
-A medical storage facility
-A fuel station in Rafah
-A fuel truck in Rafah
-A police station in Gaza City (al-Shujaeyya)
-al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City
-Houses in Gaza City and Jabaliya refugee camp
-Hamas's al-Aqsa TV station in Gaza City
-Hamas's Asda' media office in Khan Yunis
-Tunnels in Rafah
-An apartment in Tal-Alhawa in Gaza City
-A car in Nuseirat refugee camp
-The Islamic University in Gaza (several buildings, including the female students' residence)
-A mosque in Jabaliya
-A fishermen's dock at Gaza shore

December 29/08
-A house in Jabaliya (killing 5 sisters, all children).
-A blacksmith workshop in al-Zeitoun neighbourhood in Gaza City
-A house in Khan Younis
-A house in Abasan town
-The Ministry of the Interior in Gaza

December 30/08
-The Ministries Compound
-The Popular Resistance Committees center in Gaza City
-A house in Beit Lahia
-Another fuel truck in northern Gaza
-The UNRWA school in al-Qarara
-Houses in Rafah
-A house in Jabailya
-A sports club in Tal AL Hawa
-A police station in Beit Hanoun
-Bani Suheila City Council
-Training grounds for the Al Qassam Brigades
-The mosque of Omar Bin Al Khattab Mosque in Al Bureij
-Al Khulafa' Mosque in northern Gaza
-The governor's office in northern Gaza
-The Ministries Compound in Tal Al Hawa in Gaza completely destroying it (including the Ministry of Finance, Interior, Education)
-A military camp that was previously used by Force 17, loyal to President Mahmoud Abbas.
-A dairy in Gaza City
-A workshop in Beit Lahiya
-Another home in northern Gaza (killing two children)
-The Rafah-Egypt border crossing
-The house of a Fatah leader in al-Mighraqa
-A house in Beit Hanoun (killing two children)
-A house in al-Maghazi refugee camp

December 31/08
-Ambulances in Gaza City (killing a doctor, a driver, and a medic)
-The oxygen refilling plant in Gaza City (used by hospitals in Gaza)

Jan 1/09
-Palestinian Legislative Council in Gaza City
-The Ministry of Education in Gaza City
-The Ministry of Justice in Gaza City
-A house in Nuseirat refugee camp
-A workshop in Rafah
-A picnic park in Rafah
-Tunnels in Rafah
-A clinic in Rafah
-A house in al-Maghazi
-Nizar Rayan's home, killing him, his wives, and all of their children (16 people total)

Jan 2-3/09
-An apartment building in al-Qarara
-A house in Jabaliya (killing 2 children)
-A house in al-Boreij refugee camp
-A mosque in Jabaliya
-The American School in Gaza City
-A house in al-Shujaeyya
-A house in Gaza City
-Fishing boats in Gaza City
-A car on the Gaza Valley bridge
-A police station in Gaza
-At least 20 homes in Gaza

This is merely a war crime  in a series of war crimes committed by Israel against Palestine in the last 40 years.  This latest attack is merely for political ends: elections this year and to make up for the defeat in Lebanon.

 The real story is this:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2385

Bubbles

But Tom, what is the most direct aproach to reach your objective?

Seems to me that the first priority should be to get Israel to back off, they are blocking your objective and except by way of Egypt there is no other way to get there.

Tom Vouloumanos

Bubbles, there is aid going to Gaza already from Egypt, Jordan and Greece  http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gqgkDs0dxhAeBkpfNkofGhJCSneQ

Israel cannot stop all the aid coming in, this will be too costly politically.

By sending aid from accross the world and having Israel stop it, we bring to the world's (and I mean here  the West's) attention the reality of Gaza's entrapment.  Israel is already allowing some aid to get through it can't politically stop it.

So the immediate goal of getting help there can be somewhat met with the more long term goal of exposing the crime of the blockade and raising awareness which can hopefully lead to Israel backing off.

 

saga saga's picture

LeighT wrote:

OPERATION INSTIGATION

it's been said earlier in different forms, but it is very disturbing that reports are coming through CBC, not sure if they're true, that an Al-Queda leader is calling for attack of Israeli and Western targets more broadly.

this would not be good, and would lead eventually, as we all know, to increased US military presence in the Middle East, and environs. Of course the goal of this increased military presence would be to ensure corporate control of resources.

If it was us being bombed, we would be desperately hoping for this kind of support.

 

Frankly, I am so sickened by Israel/US that I hope 'AlQuaeda' does what it says ... if such exists outside the CIA, which I doubt.Yell

 

If we are all so afraid of the US retaliatory actions, maybe we need to take a real look at how we are accommodating the abuser:

"Oh NO! Don't come to the aid of the (abused) Palestinians because the (abuser) US will get mad and hurt somebody else!"

 Fucking irony is ... George Bush's last laugh ...

How is Hamas supposed to stop the CIA ops in Gaza from instigating?

Catch 22 ...

saga saga's picture

oops ... double post

Sven Sven's picture

saga wrote:
Frankly, I am so sickened by Israel/US that I hope 'AlQuaeda' does what it says

What would that accomplish? 

_______________________________________

Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Israel Puts Media Clamp on Gaza

It's good to know the New York Times is right on top of things ... I'm sure they stopped the presses for that headline story.

Jingles

[url=http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06444577.htm]"The Holocaust, that is what is happening right now in Gaza,"[/url]

Quote:
"For the reasons mentioned above, the government of Venezuela has
decided to expel the Ambassador of Israel and part of the personnel of
the Embassy of Israel"

Once again, Chavez proves to be the only leader of principal. The NDP better denounce him, quick.

Bubbles

Sven, Your wapons and security stock portfolio might get a bit heavier.Smile

Fidel

Sven wrote:

saga wrote:
Frankly, I am so sickened by Israel/US that I hope 'AlQuaeda' does what it says

What would that accomplish? 

Well we can bet that within two hours of another 9-11 level event, al -Qa'eda and OBL, "former" CIA assets in the war of terror ie. "Islamic Gladio" in Central Asia, would be identified as the perpetrators.

 And about four weeks later, a large scale US military attack against a desperately poor, pre-determined thirdworld nation would take place after lightening fast parliamentary debate and planning by Warshington.

Sephardi

It might help if you read the rest of the sentence sven. 

 

It's true. Al Qaida does not exist. The term refers to a computer data base created when the CIA was using Islamic fundamentalism as a front to fight the Russians in Afghanistan . 

According to Time magazine in Aug 2001, Osama bin Laden (CIA asset Tim Osman) was visited in his hospital bed in Dubai where he was on kidney dialysis. What they didn't say was how he was set up to be a hero to the Arab world a few months before his death. His obituary appeared in a Cairo newspaper early in 2002. The fake videos come from Memri, a particularly vile Zionist propaganda mill. Both Robin Cook and Benazair Bhutto were both assasinated for confirming that bin Laden is dead.

If CNN, CBC, controlled media et al are talking about "the Base" which they are, the atrocities being committed right now are meant to enrage the Arab world and we are being set up for another 911. 

Sephardi

Yes Frustrated Mess Anderson Cooper is going on about it right now. They're letting their slip show to lure us on.

And then they hit us with fake al Qaida.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Sephardi wrote:

It might help if you read the rest of the sentence sven. 

 

It's true. Al Qaida does not exist. The term refers to a computer data base created when the CIA was using Islamic fundamentalism as a front to fight the Russians in Afghanistan . 

According to Time magazine in Aug 2001, Osama bin Laden (CIA asset Tim Osman) was visited in his hospital bed in Dubai where he was on kidney dialysis. What they didn't say was how he was set up to be a hero to the Arab world a few months before his death. His obituary appeared in a Cairo newspaper early in 2002. The fake videos come from Memri, a particularly vile Zionist propaganda mill. Both Robin Cook and Benazair Bhutto were both assasinated for confirming that bin Laden is dead.

If CNN, CBC, controlled media et al are talking about "the Base" which they are, the atrocities being committed right now are meant to enrage the Arab world and we are being set up for another 911. 

 Well that is mostly news to me. I read the bit about Bin Laden being visted in Dubai just before 9/11, way back in the news.

So they killed Bin Laden in Dubai. Set him up as the mastermind of the thing, and the rest is a set up using facilities such as MEMRI to do the media work. Interesting.

About Robin Cook and Benzair Bhutto, when did they confirm that bin Laden was dead, and what about this obituary... any links to original source material on all of that?

And al -Qa'eda (the base) is actually "the (data)base".

Michelle

Yeah, if you make claims like that, you should really back them up with, oh, say, anything at all.

Michelle

Cracking Israeli apartheid, by Stephan Christoff, for rabble.ca.

Quote:

As bombs are falling over Palestine the EU maintains an economic partnership agreement with Israel, Canada maintains a bilateral trade and security accord, agreements signed on conditions that Israel respect human rights legislation and international law. Today human rights in Gaza are literally on fire while such bilateral agreements are maintained.

Israel's bombardment will halt once serious international pressure is asserted. Governments and institutions internationally must be pressured through protest to cut economic and diplomatic ties with Israel. Once faced with the spectre of international isolation Israel will be forced to reconsider the current military campaign in Gaza and ongoing efforts to colonize Palestine.

It is popular protest and grassroots organizing, led by movements for social justice, which has the ability to conduct political winds that will lead to the eventual isolation of Israel, not international institutions or governments.

 

Michelle

No safe place: Gazans flee homes and seek refuge in UN schools

Video

Cueball Cueball's picture

They get slaughtered there, too:

Like this headline: Israelis hit school, Ottawa blames Hamas

Quote:

JERUSALEM–Canada blamed Hamas yesterday for endangering civilians in the Gaza Strip after at least 42 Palestinians – including children – were killed by Israeli tank fire while taking shelter in a UN-operated school.

"Hamas bears a terrible responsibility for this and for the wider deepening humanitarian tragedy," Peter Kent, the new minister of state for foreign affairs, told Reuters in response to the attack.

thorin_bane

I saw the interview with kent while making dinner. Also the school attack got played diffrently depending on if you heard the report at 5 on CBC radio 1 or CBC news at 6. The 6 o clock version cut off the Israeli propoganda media consultant. She mentioned that a morter was fired from the school yard so a tank fired back striking the school(CBC TV) then continued with...they must have booby trapped the school with explosives to make it blow up.(CBC Radio 1) Funny that self censorship on the TV portion. Disgusting that they try to say the school blew up because it was booby trapped. I think they didn't want toplay that cuz it shows just how flimsy the excuses are and who is actually responsible.

Hoodeet

Re. aid to Gaza:

 

1.  Aid may be getting to the UN and other relief centres from Egypt and throught the "humanitarian corridor", but it cannot reach the tens of thousands of people huddled in shelters or bombed out structures, who are forced to walk for blocks through shelling and bombing. 

Cynical Israeli officials may be technically correct in saying there are supplies in warehouses, but what they won't acknowledge is that the attacks have effectively isolated the population from its food and basic supplies.

2.  Hospitals and clinics and medical staff ARE nearing collapse.  Aid is needed.  Go to madre.org, red cross, or other ngo's acting as conduits for this medical aid.  

My question:  How is that aid getting to the medical centres and how are people getting to the clinics?  So many are bleeding to death or going mad without access to support and aid.

 

3.  The "3 hour ceasefire" by Israeli forces is unmitigated propaganda bullshit, as it is quite unlikely that supplies can be satisfactorily distributed within Gaza City, Khan Younis and other towns.

4.  Pressure the govt. Pressure them.  We need accountability.  Shame them in the media, on the streets, in their offices. 
Suspend nit-picking as to whether NDP and Bloc statements meet the highest standard and focus on Herpes and Iggy, whose position has been the most egregious.

Keep pressure up on NDP when Parliament reconvenes, not to spend all their time on the budget and the economy and to include Gaza and other humanitarian crises.  (Congo, yes.  Toxic mining throughout the world, supported by DFAIT.   Perhaps this should be discussed on another thread, but I don't think it's entirely a red herring.)

 

 

 

 

Hoodeet

P.S.  Hear/read democracynow.org  - Jan. 7 interview with UN official re. school shelling.  Refute Israeli and Canadian lapdog propaganda.

Realigned

I believe without a doubt Hamas DID put their people inside heavily populated areas such as schools and mosque 's. From a tactical and stragetic  point of view it would be dumb of them not to.  Don't think their too concerned about ethics at this point.

 

be that as it may Israel should have half the brain to realize whats going on and refuse to be baited and refrain from hitting said targets. The destruction of te targets are worth neither the loss of civilian life nor IMHO stratigic gain (especially considering the resulting continued loss of public support)

I really wonder what the hell is going trough their heads.

 

I wish NATO would say hey you guys are being assholes, we're sending in humanitarian aid for all the civilians your haphazardly killing get out of our way- and have a NATO force escort the people in.

Jingles

Still no clue.

It's Me D

Quote:
I wish NATO would say hey you guys are being assholes, we're sending in
humanitarian aid for all the civilians your haphazardly killing get out
of our way- and have a NATO force escort the people in.

But we know of course that they won't... if NATO sends aid it will be like Georgia, their priority will be to replace Israel's spent ammunition.

Realigned

Jingles wrote:
Still no clue.

 

=)

Slumberjack

Realigned wrote:

I believe without a doubt Hamas DID put their people inside heavily populated areas such as schools and mosque 's.....I really wonder what the hell is going trough their heads.

 

This is getting tiresome, reading crap like this.  There's no wonder as to what's going through your head.

Tom Vouloumanos

Quote:  I really wonder what the hell is going trough their heads.

 

Realigned, they know exactly what they are doing.  Their war has always, always, always been against the civilian Palestinian population.  There is no doubt about that. 

It was the civilian population which was ethnically cleansed and driven to the small Gaza strip. 80% of Gazans are refugees and descendants of refugees.  The Hamas government was democratically elected by Palestinians.  It  is the legitimate representative of the Palestinians of Gaza, that is if their opinions and choices matter.

Hamas is responding to the blockade which will starve Gaza. They throw rockets into Israel as a response to the blockade. Gaza is entrapped. 

 Israel knows full well that by blockading Gaza, an overpopulated area, the economic and social conditions will worsen especially for the young and the elderly.  This is what is happening.  Only two outcomes can come out of this engineered social catastrophy, the Palestinians will either kill each other in a some civil war or they will send suicice bombers or rockets into Israel. In either case, Israel can either watch as Palestinians kill each other in an overpopulated refugee camp, that is Gaza, or attack them under the pretext of retaliation.

The goal is simple: to immediately demoralize the population and press the Palestinians further into submition.  

Why? The reason is simple.  There is no justification for occupying Palestine for 40 years.  There is no peace process, never was. Israel does not want to withdraw from East Jerusalem or the West Bank. As such, it will continue pressing down on the Palestinians until they forget about a Palestinian state on the 22% of their historical land and accept to live on a few discontinuous bantustans under some sort of Israeli-Jordanian authority.  A viable State this is not.  

We are wathcing something phenomenal (and I use this word in its most vile sense), we are watching a nation die before us. Palestine is dying. Israel's war has always been against the civilian population, Palestinians themselves are the problem.  The historical record is clear on this.

Palestinias have but two choices, to be destroyed as a viable society or to fight back and have a chance at being free of subordination.  This is the story here. Nothing else. 

Jingles

Realigned wrote:

I believe without a doubt Hamas DID put their people inside heavily populated areas such as schools and mosque 's. From a tactical and stragetic  point of view it would be dumb of them not to.  Don't think their too concerned about ethics at this point.

Like this guy. Notice he's not wearing shoes, so that it's easier to sneak up on the brave IDF defenders. 

Palestinian

remind remind's picture

Unfuckingbelievable and realigned is still posting here!

___________________________________________________________

"watching the tide roll away"

thorin_bane

Cannon is on making a bafoon of himself on the news again. Still insists EVERYTHING is hamas fault because they are terrorists.

Sephardi

Wow I am really finding this format to be frustrating. Or maybe I am being hacked.

Sorry Michelle, I am still having trouble making links but if anyone wanting sources and more info, links etc on that subject can just Google Osama bin Laden is dead + Benazir Bhutto, Robin Cook & obituary and start reading.

 Good summation Tom Vouloumanos  It would all make so much more sense if it were more generally known that Sderot is built on the Palestinian town of Najd, ethnically cleansed by Zionist terrosim and mass-murder. The legal titleholders to the farmlands that surround it are being massacred in Gaza right now. Both Rahm Emmanuel and Tzipi Livni are second-generation Zionist terrorists. And for verification of that anyone can Google their names + Irgun.

 

saga saga's picture

Realigned wrote:

I believe without a doubt Hamas DID put their people inside heavily populated areas such as schools and mosque 's. From a tactical and stragetic point of view it would be dumb of them not to. Don't think their too concerned about ethics at this point.

 

be that as it may Israel should have half the brain to realize whats going on and refuse to be baited and refrain from hitting said targets. The destruction of te targets are worth neither the loss of civilian life nor IMHO stratigic gain (especially considering the resulting continued loss of public support)

I really wonder what the hell is going trough their heads.

 

I wish NATO would say hey you guys are being assholes, we're sending in humanitarian aid for all the civilians your haphazardly killing get out of our way- and have a NATO force escort the people in.

 

NATO is US a war machine, not a humanitarian organization. Perhaps you meant the (also US controlled) UN?

It's an odd paradox ... According to you and other apologists for the Israelis, Hamas is conducting warfare against its own people, deliberately 'putting' them in harms way, planting children on top of munitions caches to draw fire from Israel, etc.

If that was true, can you explain why the Palestinian people in Gaza continually replenish the Hamas government with new electees, to replace the ones assassinated or 'disappeared' by Israeli and CIA ops? 

 Can you explain why the people of Gaza continue to stand behind Hamas?

If these atrocious fairy tales of Israeli supporters were true, the Palestinian people would not support Hamas, but they do.

It can only be concluded that such propaganda is just that: LIES. to promote the Israeli cause, painting the people of Gaza as pawns.

Even the newly neo-con CBC didn't have the stupidity to publish that atrocious filth!

 

 

 

Refuge Refuge's picture

Realigned wrote:

I believe without a doubt Hamas DID put their people inside heavily populated areas such as schools and mosque 's. From a tactical and stragetic  point of view it would be dumb of them not to.  Don't think their too concerned about ethics at this point.  

In my opinion putting those people/weapons in those building to me is not out of the question what is out of the question for me is for parents to send their children to schools - which we have seen as victims at these places, and people to go to the Mosque when they know that the Hamas and/or the weapons are stored there.  I don't see it being a big secret for these people to look and go something ain't right here, I am not sending my family there.

But for the sake of argument I will go on the premise that that is true.  Do you think that the Isreali government is telling the truth about all of these schools and Mosques.  If they were to even target one school or one Mosque and then lie and say it was because they thought there were Hamas and/or weapons there it makes every strike, valid or not, -completely invalid.

  I don't know everything that is going on, thus me being more of a reader less of a poster on this thread, but one thing that I have seen through coverage since and before December is that the Israeli government attacks religious instituations and schools within Gaza and Palestine so what a coincidence now that is where the Hamas and weapons are.

I don't think it is as simple as it makes sense because it is a strategic place for Hamas to go and weapons to be stored.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Refuge wrote:

I believe without a doubt Hamas DID put their people inside heavily populated areas such as schools and mosque 's. From a tactical and stragetic  point of view it would be dumb of them not to.  Don't think their too concerned about ethics at this point.  

This is entirely based on unsubstantiated claims made by a participant in the "conflict." This is like going to one of the parties in a domestic dispute, and then siding with one of the parties accussations against the other, when there is a police officer standing right there saying he saw the whole thing and saying that you are wrong.

The UN expliicitly stated they had no violations by militants at the UN school that was attacked yesterday.

Further, Israel has yet to forward any proof whatsoever that these institutions are used by Hamas to store weapons. The best they have come up with that I have seen is some footage of a couple of guys launching mortars from a school yard, on a day when apparently no one was attending the school. And that is from 2007.

Please substantiate your allegations with documentary evidence. The repetition of an allegation, does not magically turn it into fact.

Furthermore, these people who were killed yesterday were refugees, who were escaping into the interior of  Gaza City from the fighting happening on the outskirts of the city. They are not allowed out, they must go inward. They had no where else to go. The UN invited these people to come into the school under the UN supervision and protection, and militants were not allowed onto the school grounds by the UN.

The UN has said they had "no violations" by militants at the school that was targetted by Israeli tanks artillery.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Anyone who thinks that Hamas people think that storing weapons at schools or Mosques provides them with special protection is seriously deluded. Why would they think that schools or mosques are protected "neutral" space?

Obviously they are not. Civilians are also quite well aware of this fact.

There are no safe places in Gaza. Period.

Refuge Refuge's picture

Cueball wrote:

Please substantiate your allegations with documentary evidence. The repetition of an allegation, does not magically turn it into fact.

I believe I said in my opinion I believe it is possible ( in other words not out of the question). Nowhere in my post did I say it was a fact.

Further to that I wrote my opinion (again completely unsubstantiated because it is an opinion not a fact) is that the attacks are not true because of the number of civilian casualities involved do not make sense to me.

If you would like documentation of the Isreali government targeting schools and Mosques ( and that is without the claim that anyone is hiding there) I can provide that.

Sven Sven's picture

Fidel wrote:
Sven wrote:

saga wrote:
Frankly, I am so sickened by Israel/US that I hope 'AlQuaeda' does what it says

What would that accomplish? 

Well we can bet that within two hours of another 9-11 level event, al -Qa'eda and OBL, "former" CIA assets in the war of terror ie. "Islamic Gladio" in Central Asia, would be identified as the perpetrators.

 And about four weeks later, a large scale US military attack against a desperately poor, pre-determined thirdworld nation would take place after lightening fast parliamentary debate and planning by Warshington.

Well, that's kinda my point.  Nothing positive would come from an al -Qa'eda attack.  That's why I posed the question to saga.  Why would saga wish for such a thing?

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Eleutherophobics of the World...Unite!!!

Michelle

Wow, I didn't realize Peter Kent was such a dickwad!  I just read that Star article now that was posted by Cueball. 

Quote:
Canada blamed Hamas yesterday for endangering civilians in the Gaza Strip after at least 42 Palestinians – including children – were killed by Israeli tank fire while taking shelter in a UN-operated school.

"Hamas bears a terrible responsibility for this and for the wider deepening humanitarian tragedy," Peter Kent, the new minister of state for foreign affairs, told Reuters in response to the attack.

"The burden of responsibility is on Hamas to stop its terrorist rocketing of Israel."

What planet is this asshole from, anyhow?  Time for a new government, I think!

remind remind's picture

Asshole is too good of a term him frankly!

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"watching the tide roll away"

Refuge Refuge's picture

Double Post 

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