Gaza and Israel VII

106 posts / 0 new
Last post
Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture
Gaza and Israel VII

Quote:
"The IDF [Israeli Defense Forces] acts only in accordance with what is permitted by international law and does not use white phosphorus," IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi told Israel's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday in response to a query.

But Garlasco says that phosphorus is clearly being used in the Jabaliya refugee camp, one of the most crowded areas in Gaza.

"I can see them; we are very certain, whatever the Israeli Defense Forces may say, that white phosphorus is being used. It was used by Israel in Lebanon in 2006, but not until the population fled. In Gaza, the population can't flee."

... "This is a new generation of very powerful small explosive that detonates with extreme power and dissipates its power within a range of five to 10 meters," he told reporters. "There is a very strong suspicion I think that Gaza is now being used as a test laboratory for new weapons."

Al Jazeera, which has reporters in Gaza, has described hospital cases that appear to conform to the clean tearing of limbs that DIME can cause.

Italian scientists from the New Weapons Research Committee, which examines emerging military technology, said in a statement that "evidence is mounting" of DIME usage, saying the wounds may be "untreatable" due to metals like tungsten that enter the body. DIME is packed with tungsten dust that forms micro-shrapnel upon detonation.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0114/p07s01-wome.html?page=2 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Quote:
The record is fairly clear. You can find it on the Israeli website, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. Israel broke the ceasefire by going into the Gaza and killing six or seven Palestinian militants. At that point-and now I'm quoting the official Israeli website-Hamas retaliated or, in retaliation for the Israeli attack, then launched the missiles.

Now, as to the reason why, the record is fairly clear as well. According to Ha'aretz, Defense Minister Barak began plans for this invasion before the ceasefire even began. In fact, according to yesterday's Ha'aretz, the plans for the invasion began in March. And the main reasons for the invasion, I think, are twofold. Number one; to enhance what Israel calls its deterrence capacity, which in layman's language basically means Israel's capacity to terrorize the region into submission. After their defeat in July 2006 in Lebanon, they felt it important to transmit the message that Israel is still a fighting force, still capable of terrorizing those who dare defy its word.

And the second main reason for the attack is because Hamas was signaling that it wanted a diplomatic settlement of the conflict along the June 1967 border. That is to say, Hamas was signaling they had joined the international consensus, they had joined most of the international community, overwhelmingly the international community, in seeking a diplomatic settlement. And at that point, Israel was faced with what Israelis call a Palestinian peace offensive. And in order to defeat the peace offensive, they sought to dismantle Hamas.

The Facts About Hamas and the War on Gaza - Norman Finkelstein

Slumberjack

Being with the Artillery quite a few years ago, dealing with large calibre white phosphorus ammunition and knowing it's capabilities, it is monstrous savagery to employ this type of weapon in populated civilian areas, or on any human for that matter.  WP from rounds that were fired the previous summer, after lying dormant under the snow all winter, would cause forest fires the next summer, as smouldering material gained oxygen, which would touch off any combustable material within the vicinity, and with the right wind, it would set the surrounding forest ablaze.  As I recall it, summer forest fire fighting within the CFB Gagetown impact areas was a regular activity.

Fidel

Unusually Large U.S. Weapons Shipment to Israel: Are the US and Israel Planning a Broader Middle East War?

Quote:

A very large delivery of  US weaponry to Israel consisting of 3,000 tons of "ammunition" is scheduled to sail to Israel. The size and nature of the shipments are described as "unusual": 

"Shipping 3,000-odd tons of ammunition in one go is a lot," one broker said, on condition of anonymity. 

"This (kind of request) is pretty rare and we haven't seen much of it quoted in the market over the years," he added.

"Shipping brokers in London who have specialized in moving arms for the British and U.S. military in the past said such ship charters to Israel were rare. (Reuters, Jan 10, 2009)

KenS
thorin_bane

Watch the daily show from jan 5...even JS points out the situation. Good on someone anyone talkimg out about this. Sadly it had to be a comedian like usual.

Noops

And now for something completely different...

Most of what we read here on Babble consists of left-leaning Canadian viewpoints.

Here's what an Israeli has to say about the current situation in the Middle East:

> >A letter to the citizens of Gaza from a concerned neighbor
> >
> >
> >
> >Dear neighbor,
> >
> >
> >
> >My name is David and I live in Israel, thirty minutes (or one minute rocket
> >time) from you, in a beautiful house by the woods. I hope someday to have
> >you over for a cup of tea. We have a lovely view from the balcony. On a
> >clear day we can see our jets bombing your neighborhood.
> >
> >
> >
> >I think it's time we had a heart to heart. It's time you knew the truth.
> >After all, what are neighbors for? You might have wondered why both you and
> >your parents were born in a refugee camp. Why is it that even though we
> >live
> >only 30 minutes apart, I live in prosperity and you live in poverty and
> >filth? Why you live in despair and hatred while we live in hope and love.
> >
> >
> >
> >Here is the truth, neighbor:
> >
> >
> >
> >There really was a Holocaust. I realize you've been taught otherwise. I
> >know, that ever since you were a small child you've been told that the
> >Holocaust is something the Jews fabricated to justify taking your land.
> >Well, dear citizen of Gaza, it really happened. Not very long ago. It
> >happened. And guess what? It's NEVER going to happen again. The time in
> >history when Jews were led to slaughter, persecuted, raped and pillaged is
> >over and will never recur. Never. Now we have our own country. Now we have
> >the bombs. We will never forget what was done to our people and you better
> >not either.
> >
> >
> >
> >We don't hate you. We don't hate anyone. Jews are a peaceful people. We do
> >not want your land. We don't want oil. We don't want to rape your women or
> >murder your children. We never tried to force our religion on anyone. Our
> >eternal capital, Jerusalem, is open to all faiths to love and to worship.
> >We
> >treat your Arab brothers who live among us as equals. Our hand has been
> >extended to peace with our neighbors since day one. We have proven this
> >time
> >and time again through numerous negotiations and extensive compromise.
> >
> >
> >
> >We ask only for one thing. Leave us in peace. That's right. We have no
> >other
> >demands. Just leave us in peace. It's as simple as that. If you don't, we
> >will fight back ferociously and mercilessly. We will destroy your homes and
> >your cities. We will make your miserable lives even more miserable. If you
> >don't want this to happen any more, leave us in peace.
> >
> >
> >
> >Our soldiers are not motivated by hate but by determination. We embrace
> >life
> >and will do anything to preserve it. However, we will kill and die to
> >protect our land and our way of life. That's what they should be teaching
> >in
> >your schools instead of useless lies.
> >
> >
> >
> >A terrorist is a terrorist. Sorry to be the one to break the news, but it's
> >about time somebody told you that a terrorist is nothing more than a
> >coward.
> >Not a hero. Not a Shahid. There is nothing heroic in blowing yourself up
> >amongst a crowd of woman and children. Anybody can do it. Anybody can hide
> >inside a school or a mosque and blindly fire rockets into cities, hoping to
> >kill as many babies as possible. There is nothing courageous or admirable
> >in
> >these acts of cruelty. To take pride in an act of terror is pitiful and
> >pathetic. I know you've been raised to believe the contrary, but it is a
> >lie. I have seen how your children are taught to commit suicide. How your
> >suicide bombers are glorified. This is tragically sad. A real hero faces
> >his
> >enemy and doesn't hide in schools and hospitals. A real hero protects his
> >people and will die for them but not among them.
> >
> >
> >
> >Israel exists and it belongs to the Jewish People. I've seen your school
> >books. I know that Israel has been omitted from your maps. Contrary to what
> >you've been told, the State of Israel really does exist. Look outside your
> >window. We are here and we are not going anywhere. Dear Palestinian
> >neighbor, it's time to deal with the facts. We love our beautiful little
> >country. We will protect it with our lives. You are not getting it. This
> >was
> >explained to you in 1948. You got your country and we got ours. Your
> >arrogant and stupid leaders promised you that you will get the whole thing.
> >Thousands of lives have been lost for nothing. It's NEVER going to happen!
> >While you have been foolishly drooling over our land instead of nurturing
> >your own, we have built one of the most beautiful and successful countries
> >on Earth. We have done it not to spite our greedy neighbors, but rather in
> >spite of them. We've planted forests and quenched the desert. We've drained
> >wetlands and culivated fields. We built universities, opera houses,
> >superhighways, hospitals, skyscrapers and stadiums. We have millions of
> >refugees, but no refugee camps.
> >
> >
> >
> >You could do the same. Focus on what you have and not on what you will
> >never
> >have. It takes love, hard work and determination. We can help. We have
> >experts and scientists helping developing nations across the globe. Accept
> >the facts, lay down your weapons and join us in making this great region of
> >the planet even greater.
> >
> >
> >
> >Remember, we're neighbors.
> >
> >
> >
> >David -- Sarigim, Israel - Jan. 9th, 2009

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Shame on you for posting that fascist filth!

thorin_bane

Hope mossad pays well, because it seems that way on here.

Jingles

Did Ignatief or Harper write that?

Merowe

Hello, police?

I've just received another letter from that 'concerned neighbour' I was talking about, and I'm pretty sure he's off his meds again, can you notify the asylum?

ceti ceti's picture

If you note how "David" spells, you realize he is an American emigre. What self-serving delusion. It'd be farcical, if it weren't so murderous and bestial.

Hoodeet

Please correct me if I have my stats wrong.  I am under the assumption that most of the problem settlements seem to be populated by JDL and religious fanatic types from the US and other English-speaking countries., the ones who want to clear every square mile of territory as far as the Jordan River, of non-Jews.  They're the ones who might be most likely to force the "Samson solution".  I would like to be sure of this.  Thanks.

Hoodeet

We need to be reminded of the attitude of the average Israeli, however distasteful the postings may be.

 

 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

David says: "We do not want your land"

Then get off it. Everyone will feel better and there will be no more need for long, lying, racist diatribes.

 

Jacob Two-Two

Ah, the power of denial. It is Palestine who seeks to destroy Israel, not the other way around, despite the fact that it is Israel that has continuously expanded its borders since 1948, forcing Palestinians into a smaller and smaller space. That makes sense.

 

It reminds one of the logic of the abusive spouse. Yes, I'm always hitting you, but it's only because you're trying to destroy me. The fact that I have to hit you so often only proves how hard you're trying to destroy me. But still, I love you. If you'd just stop trying to destroy me, I wouldn't have to keep beating the shit out of you and we could live happily together. 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Right now, CBC is all obsessed with two or three rockets from Lebanon and ignoring the tons of explosives being dropped on civilians in Gaza.

 

Hoodeet

That comedian (Jon Stewart) might just have been exploiting the obvious, or perhaps he has turned over a new leaf.  I don't recall him, over the years, ever defending Palestinians against Israel, or missing an opportunity to insult Fatah - he was shameful in his mockery when Arafat lay dying and then when he died.

Anyone remember what he did when Israel attacked Lebanon in '06?

 

Noops

I have a possible solution. It will be interesting to see how receptive folks here are to it.

Of all the places in the world for the state of Israel to have been situated, you couldn't have picked a worse one in terms of potential conflicts with its neighbours.

How about moving the state of Israel to a patch of land in Canada, equal to Israel's current size?

Israel has a total area of 8,522 sq mi, roughly one third the size of Nova Scotia (21,345 sq mi).
Canada's total area is 3,854,085 sq mi.
You could fit approx. 452 Israels into the area that Canada occupies.

Canada would not miss this 8,522 sq mi. of land, it has 451 more where it came from!

The land would belong to Israel, not Canada, and would be run by the state of Israel as an independent country.

Canada would stand to benefit by this 'new trading partner' as would Israel obviously.

The biggest benefit of all; Israel would be free from terrorist bombings every other week and of course they would have no country to bomb and terrorize in return anymore.

Tom Vouloumanos

Noops, throughout this discussion, I have repeated and will continue to repeat one single idea, because there is only single story here to be told. 

There is no controversy at all. Everyone, every Arab country, every Muslim country, the Palestinian authority under Fatah and under Hamas have accepted and support UN resolution 242 which defacto recognizes two independent countries: Israel and Palestine along the July 1967 border. Every country in the world has accepted this except for Israel backed by the US and the nominal country here and there sometimes.

There is no controversy other than one problem that has nothing to do with Hamas, terrorsim, Islamism, anti-Semitism, the destrruction of Israel or any of that. The only problem is that Israel militarily subjugates a country called Palestine and its 4 million inhabitants, 40 years on now.

The only solution, which the whole world supports is to free Palestine and its people from this military enslavement in accordance with International consensus and law. That's it. End of story.

There are two sides: 1 - those who support freedom for Palestine and its 4 million people in accordance with international law and consensus

2- those who support that Palestine and its 4 million people should remain under Israel military enslavement against international law and consensus.

If you support 2, the enslaved people will have to fight back and those who support 2 have no moral wieght to judge how the enslaved people fight back unless they offer an alternative to the enslaved people.

Discussion of other matters are absurd and serve only to change the subject from this indefensinle reality. You think not?

saga saga's picture

Well said Tom!

 

Noops

>>The biggest benefit of all; Israel would be free from terrorist
bombings every other week and of course they would have no country to
bomb and terrorize in return anymore.

 

Sorry, in the biggests benefits I forgot to mention that the Palestinians would be able to reclaim their original territory, as Isreal would now be situated in North America.

How's that Tom?

 

Jingles

Whenever someone blathers on about "innocent" Israeli citizens, please remember that racist, bloodthirsty drivel by "David", and keep in mind that that is the dominant mindset. Remember that Israelis go to watch the genocide in Gaza from a hilltop as a spectator sport, cheering on every explosion. Remember the pro-Israeli demonstrators who call out for the elimination of every Arab from Palestine.

No Israeli is innocent.

Doug

Noops wrote:
I have a possible solution. It will be interesting to see how receptive folks here are to it.

Of all the places in the world for the state of Israel to have been situated, you couldn't have picked a worse one in terms of potential conflicts with its neighbours.

How about moving the state of Israel to a patch of land in Canada, equal to Israel's current size?

That's almost as silly as one of the original options considered, which was to put it in Uganda. We're past that. Millions of Israelis aren't about to pick up and move somewhere else. Neither, for that matter, are millions of Palestinians. These peoples have to somehow sort out how the land they're in now is going to be shared. That or it's more of the same forever.  

Doug

Jingles wrote:

Whenever someone blathers on about "innocent" Israeli citizens, please remember that racist, bloodthirsty drivel by "David", and keep in mind that that is the dominant mindset. Remember that Israelis go to watch the genocide in Gaza from a hilltop as a spectator sport, cheering on every explosion. Remember the pro-Israeli demonstrators who call out for the elimination of every Arab from Palestine.

No Israeli is innocent.

Some do those things, others don't. Yet others protest. It's silly to lump Israelis all together like that.

Tom Vouloumanos

How's that Tom?

 

Noops what you are suggesting, if in fact you are serious, which I hope you're not, is mass based expulsion and relocation which is a crime, and which tramples on the most basic elementary rights of Israelis to self-determination and to the territorial integrity of Israel.  It is ludicrous, it is immoral, it is inhumane, it is illegal, no sane person supports it, it is of no use whatsoever...other than to change the subject.

There is both legal and political unanimity (save the exceptions previously mentioned) on the borders between two sovereign states: one is Israel, which has the right to its sovereignty, territorial integrity and self-determination and the other is Palestine which has the right to its its sovereignty, territorial integrity and self-determination.

The problem is not the location of Israel or its neighbours who all agree on the international consensus (this includes the Palestinian leadership). The problem is that Israel does not recognize Palestine, Palestinian self-determination and most importantly militarily subjgugates this country and its people.

The solution is to free this country and its people from this subjugation. Not only is this a solution, it is also supported by EVERYONE on the planet (again with the usual 2 and sometimes + exceptions)

All other discussions are either academic or useless, at least on this planet.

 In fact, the only use they have is to remove the focus from the overwelmingly agreed upon solution that only two countries do not seem to accept and as such are outside international law.

That's the story again, at least on this planet.  

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture
Jingles

Israelis celebrate the death of Palestinian children from the Hill of Shame, overlooking [url=Gaza[/url]">http://angryarab.blogspot.com/]Gaza[/url] 

 

Stockholm

and what do you call it when Palestinians gleefully jump for joy and distribute cakes to celebrate when they get news of a homocide bomber killing scores of Israeli civilians?

In war - people on both sides tend to dehumanize the other.

Stockholm

"Whenever someone blathers on about "innocent" Israeli citizens, please
remember that racist, bloodthirsty drivel by "David", and keep in mind
that that is the dominant mindset. Remember that Israelis go to watch
the genocide in Gaza from a hilltop as a spectator sport, cheering on
every explosion. Remember the pro-Israeli demonstrators who call out
for the elimination of every Arab from Palestine.

No Israeli is innocent."

 

THAT is easily just about the most blatantly hateful and racist comment I think I've ever seen anyone post on babble. If anyone wrote the same thing and substituted the word "Arab" for Israeli - they would be instantly banned for life. So goes the double standard.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Stockholm wrote:

In war - people on both sides tend to dehumanize the other.

No. In wars people have more respect because your enemy can seriously challenge you. Total racist dehumanization is precisely the cultural quality that needs to be propogated so that these people can jump up and down at the massacre of more or less defenseless human beings.

Jingles

Quote:
THAT is easily just about the most blatantly hateful and racist comment I think I've ever seen anyone post on babble.

Have you been reading this thread from the beginning? Any opinions on "David"'s paen to his neighbours?

Didn't think so. 

Stockholm

I guess that would explain the Palestinian fiestas that take place whenever there is a massacre of defenceless Israeli civilians.

There are obviously some seriously deviant people on both sides who feel that lives of their opponents are worthless. This is nothing new. I'm sure there were people dancing jigs on the streets of London when they heard that Dresden had been bombed.

Stockholm

"David" is not a babbler. He didn't choose to post here and he doesn't have to follow any rules of conduct. You might as well be quoting a passage from Mein Kampf or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. His views are about as representative of public opinion in Israel as Osama Bin Laden views typify what everyone in Gaza thinks. What that individual who is not part of this online community may have written doesn't give anyone license to express a virulently racist message of hate toward every single solitary individual person who holds an Israeli passport.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Good of you to bring up Dresden Stockholm. You should really read more books about the things you like to talk about, because actually it was Dresden that caused even Winston Churchill to flinch, and opine in his diary that the "terror bombing" of German cities had perhaps gone to far.

I guess that puts you in the a moral spectrum to the right of Winston Churchill, next to say Mussollini, perhaps?

saga saga's picture

">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231950849606&pagename=JPost%...

Israeli groups call for IDF 'war crimes' probe

A forum of Israeli human rights organizations on Wednesday called on the country's political and military leadership to launch a domestic probe into "suspected war crimes" committed during Operation Cast Lead.

Palestinians inspect the...

Palestinians inspect the damage at a building following Israeli military operations, in the Sheikh Radwan neighborhood in Gaza City.
Photo: AP

Slideshow:
Pictures of the week

In
a letter warning of "a clear and present danger to the lives and
well-being of tens of thousands of civilians," nine Israeli
nongovernmental organizations addressed IDF Chief of Staff
Lt.-Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister
Ehud Barak, OC Southern Command Maj.-Gen. Yoav Galant and
Attorney-General Menahem Mazuz, listing five steps that they said
should be taken immediately to mitigate a humanitarian disaster.

The missive blasted what it termed the "wanton use of
lethal force" and warned that "after the end of the hostilities, the
time will come for the investigation of this matter, and accountability
will be demanded of those responsible for the violations."

 

 Well that's encouraging.

Realigned

Stockholm wrote:
"Whenever someone blathers on about "innocent" Israeli citizens, please
remember that racist, bloodthirsty drivel by "David", and keep in mind
that that is the dominant mindset. Remember that Israelis go to watch
the genocide in Gaza from a hilltop as a spectator sport, cheering on
every explosion. Remember the pro-Israeli demonstrators who call out
for the elimination of every Arab from Palestine.

No Israeli is innocent."

 

THAT is easily just about the most blatantly hateful and racist comment I think I've ever seen anyone post on babble. If anyone wrote the same thing and substituted the word "Arab" for Israeli - they would be instantly banned for life. So goes the double standard.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Stockybaba says that kind of thing all the time about Arabs. Without the "No Israeli is innocent part," that diatribe is part of the common discourse that justifies the collective punishment of Arabs by Israel, for the crimes of a few. Jingles is just making what is implied, explicit.

Fidel

Cueball wrote:

Good of you to bring up Dresden Stockholm. You should really read more books about the things you like to talk about, because actually it was Dresden that caused even Winston Churchill to flinch, and opine in his diary that the "terror bombing" of German cities had perhaps gone to far.

I guess that puts you in the a moral spectrum to the right of Winston Churchill, next to say Mussollini, perhaps?

But it was Churchill who ordered the firebombing of Dresden and non-military targets that killed 47000 civilians. This was the kind of talent that drove Stalin to deal dirty with beautiful minds in the democratized west, like his.

It was Churchill who in 1910 talked about "sterilization of mental degenerates" and sending thousands of others to state run labour camps.

Churchill gloried in his role in the 25 international armies and mercenaries laying siege to post-revolutionary Russia.

It was Churchill who in 1926 called for the army to intervene in a British coal miners' strike and mow them down with machine guns a la Francisco Franco. I know, my grandfather was one of the striking miners.

Winston Churchill was a pervert and a fascist old bastard. His thoughts were more in tune with General Franco, his alter ego. A cement wall at dawn is what he deserved, no blindfold or last cigarette.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Fidel wrote:
Cueball wrote:

Good of you to bring up Dresden Stockholm. You should really read more books about the things you like to talk about, because actually it was Dresden that caused even Winston Churchill to flinch, and opine in his diary that the "terror bombing" of German cities had perhaps gone to far.

I guess that puts you in the a moral spectrum to the right of Winston Churchill, next to say Mussollini, perhaps?

But it was Churchill who ordered the firebombing of Dresden and non-military targets that killed 47000 civilians.

Duh. In all probablity, Churchill did not specifically order Dresden to be bombed. It was probably bomber command that selected the targets from an approved list. Not that this matters much.

The point remains that at least between himself and his diary, he opined that they had gone to far.

bush is gone ha...

Latest. A UN HQ hit by white phosphorus.

[quote\]

The UN's relief agency, Unrwa, says part of its HQ in the city is on fire after being shelled by the Israelis.

Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon expressed outrage at the attack, and said Israel had told him it was a grave mistake...

Unrwa spokesman Christopher Gunness said three of the agency's employees were hurt in the attack.

He said the compound was hit by what Unrwa believed to be three
white phosphorus shells, which are incendiary weapons used as a smoke
screen.

About 700 people were still in the compound, he said, and he
was particularly concerned about the proximity of the fire to five
fully loaded fuel tanks.

Asked whether he was sure the attack had been carried out by
Israel, he said he was not aware of Hamas having access to white
phosphorus...

A BBC correspondent in Egypt who saw children with gunshot wounds said
he had been given detailed accounts by Palestinian civilians of how
they and their children had been fired at by Israeli soldiers...

A tower block in Gaza City that houses the offices of the Reuters news
agency and several other organisations is hit by an explosion, injuring
a journalist for the Abu Dhabi television channel...

Israeli tanks seemed to be pushing closer to the heart of Gaza City,
close to the UN headquarters, and that there were reports of 21 people
killed in fighting since the early hours.

Rushdi Abu Alouf, the BBC's Gaza producer, says the building
where he lives in Tel al-Hawa, south-west of Gaza City, has been
surrounded by Israeli tanks.

"People have been screaming from their balconies, calling for help," he says.

He says that from his window he can see fighters from Hamas and
other Palestinian factions firing at Israeli tanks from rooftops and
balconies, and that the Israeli tanks have been firing back.

Tank shells have hit the lower floors two or three times.[\quote]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7829912.stm

from Al Jazeera:

"They are phosphorus fires
so they are extremely difficult to put out because if you put water on
it, it will just generate toxic fumes and do nothing to stop the
burning," John Ging, director of UN relief operations, said.

"This
is going to burn down the entire warehouse ... where thousands and
thousands of tonnes of food, medical supplies and other emergency
assistance is there."...

The hospital in Tal
al-Hawa had about 500 people inside when it came under attack. Many had
taken shelter in the hospital, hoping to escape the fighting.

"The
last hit was on the Red Crescent's operations building and destroyed
the pharmacy. There's a hole in the roof and a fire is still burning,"
Sharon Locke, a hospital volunteer, told Al Jazeera.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200911510353779666....

from Jerusalem post: "Also Thursday afternoon, Defense Minister Ehud
Barak met with Ban, as well as Red Cross President President Jacob
Kellenberger. During the meeting, he told the men that Hamas gunmen are
using Palestinians as human shields, and are firing at IDF troops from
the vicinity of UN facilities.

The defense minister stated that IDF soldiers would continue to return fire, in self-defense." 

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231950861136&pagename=JPost%...

 

Between the lines of "The defense minister stated that IDF soldiers would continue to return fire, in self-defense" I'd say they just told Ban to f..off.

 

Well, compared to the first post the question is laid to rest.

The ways things are moving it may well turn into Dresden.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Holding Out in Gaza: Waiting for the Israelis 

excerpt:

As if to make sure that terror rains down on the Gaza population, Israel has been dropping thousands of leaflets from the sky, conveying various messages. Some of these messages advertise intensified attacks against the area, claiming that weapons and munitions stores will be targeted, while others warn of new methods of fighting to come. But perhaps the most perplexing and frightening of these notes are the ones calling on the residents of the area to leave their houses, urging them to cooperate with the IDF and contact it by e-mail or phone (both provided) to report "terrorist activity."

Such notes are baffling. They assume that the resistance is an organized army with bases, weapons-storage facilities and organized affiliations. Most people are confused as to who these notes refer to. The Hamas we know is a political, religious and social organization. Most of the population at large is uninvolved in that entity's military activities.

The word catastrophe is on everyone's lips. People cannot help but recall the similar scenes from 60 years ago. But in 1948 the Israeli goal was the expulsion of the Palestinian people. This time around, it seems as though their goal is elimination.

So where are the residents of these areas supposed to go for safety? There has already been a massive influx of people from the northern half of the Gaza Strip into Gaza City, while the thousands of families in the southern and eastern areas of Rafah have left their homes to be destroyed by Israeli forces there, moving farther inward. Some people stay with relatives or friends. Almost every one of the 80 apartments in my building complex is already accommodating more than one refugee family, as are most homes in the city, and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency shelters are overflowing with people.

Many families have nowhere to go and end up staying in their homes. These people would leave if they could, but the Gaza Strip is sealed off from all directions and surrounded by the Israeli military forces. So while Israel claims to "warn" them prior to destroying their homes over their heads, in reality they are not giving them any other option. Many people feel that it would be more merciful not to give "warnings." That way, these people would not have to anticipate their imminent deaths.

 

Note:

Safa Joudeh is a young woman in Palestine, whose father is a ob-gyn physician  operating out of the first floor of a fourteen story building there has been  posting her experiences of the war and one has just been published in Time. She has a facebook page and  publishes her
experiences in Gaza nearly every day.

LeighT

*request for assistance-

the listings of January events around Gaza has been cut off at posting #72, without the listings of upcoming events this weekend and ongoing.

it may just be my computer ?

no doubt others are looking as well....

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

UN headquarters in Gaza hit by Israeli 'white phosphorus' shells

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece

Other targets hit were journalists, and, of course, the food warehouse. After shelling a school and killing many, the Israel's lied and produced old video to support their lies. Only when that didn't work they said, "oh, it was all a mistake", which the Western Media quickly accepted not asking, if it was a mistake, why not admit it up front.

So now all attacks against civilians buildings and personell, despite having GPS locations in advance, is "all a mistake". Bullshit.

 

LeighT

it looks like it was my computer. i rebooted and got all the posts. there are two in there that pertain to upcoming actions- a Jan 17 Vancouver event, and a writing action. maybe it would be useful to keep the event/action thread separate from dialogues so actions don't get lost and the thread doesn't take too long to load.

 

Hoodeet

Good discussion and a better sense of the way in which progressive Arabs are addressing this crim.

http://angryarab.blogspot.com

wwSwimming

It's not just Israel beating up on the Palestinians.  It's the entire world.  Thousands of American defense contractors working for years to design & manufacture machinery which is being used now.

 One of the guys in one of the groups I swim with emailed me and acknowledged that he is in Egypt.  His company makes some of the electrical components that are used in Israel's UAV/drones.

 here is an example of the subsystem in which they are used -

camera turret - 

http://www.l-3com.com/seo/products/mx12.htm 

 Northrop Grumman UAV -

 http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=42683

 "Northrop Grumman Enters Teaming Agreement with Sonoma Design for EO/IR ISR and Targeting System"

If you are interested in this, do a web search for the "Heron UAV" used by Israel.  it is very similar to a UAV made by Northrop Grumman.

 So, standing behind the Israeli army, you have this huge armada of engineers, studying how their war-toys perform in "real-time".  Pretending they are working for "the good guys", bemoaning the loss of 13 Israeli's, oblivious to the death of 1000 Palestinians - at their hands.

 There is a force multiplier effect with the use of high-tech weaponry.  The Israeli army is not 1000 times more powerful than the Palestinians, it is 1 million times more powerful.  More than that if you consider Israel's 150 nuclear weapons.

 One of the sickest things I have ever seen, in my lifetime.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

http://LASIK-Flap.com ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Right now, CBC is all obsessed with two or three rockets from Lebanon and ignoring the tons of explosives being dropped on civilians in Gaza.

 

On the other hand, CBC Newsworld every day is bringing updates from within Gaza courtesy of a reporter from Al-Jazeera, I don't remember her name, but she's been explicit about the damage and carnage that Israel is doing to the citizens and infrastructure of Gaza. I think every newscast from CBC Newsworld since this began has included shocking images of the destruction of Gaza.

 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

The parliamentary left and right in Britain, grow some (my advance apologies by anyone who is offended by that turn of phrase):

Quote:
 The strongest criticism in the one hour session, that followed a statement from the Foreign Secretary, came from Sir Gerald Kaufman, a former Labour minister, who is Jewish.

Directing his fury at the Israeli prime minister, foreign minister and defence minister, he said: "Olmert, (Tzipi] Livni and (Ehud] Barak are mass murderers, war criminals and bring shame on the Jewish people whose Star of David they use as a badge in Gaza."

He suggested the British government would have taken a more strident tone if it had been Hamas who had "slaughtered 900 Israelis".

 

http://news.scotsman.com/uk/Crossparty-fury-of-MPs-at.4868105.jp 

 

 

saga saga's picture

Hillary Clinton and "stupid power"

At
her Senate confirmation hearing, Hillary Clinton claimed she wants to
shift American foreign policy toward the use of "smart power,"
something she defines as "principles and pragmatism, not rigid
ideology,"and then -- clearly cleaving to rigid ideology -- said she
won't talk to Hamas. Hamas is of course a major player on the
Palestinian side and one of the few organizations in the Middle East
that legitimately represents Arab people through the democratic
process. To refuse to talk to them is to persist in folly and bodes ill
for peace in the Middle East. In Clinton's own words: "We cannot
negotiate with Hamas until it renounces violence, recognizes Israel and
agrees to abide by past agreements. That is just, for me, an absolute."

 

Oh balls!! Just more of the same scatological emission!

Get Israel and its US weapons (ok some Canadian ones too) out of Gaza and then MAYBE Hamas will talk to you!

saga saga's picture

http://citizensbriefingbook.change.gov/ideas/viewIdea.apexp?id=087800000...

 Send comments to President elect Obama here.

 

I noticed that the item on Gaza has been bumped up to the top position, by people voting it UP.

 

Pages

Topic locked