HOAX or HORROR--You decide!

43 posts / 0 new
Last post
TVParkdale
HOAX or HORROR--You decide!

 

TVParkdale

Here is a video of Scott Loper who claims to have been tortured in Whitby Jail. I might be willing to buy that--but a cover-up by EVERYONE? RCMP, OPP, Durham Regional Police, FEDS, Province, Healthcare system, the credit card companies...the list is endless.

I read his website and I believe it has more holes in it than a pair of old javexed jeans.
[url=http://www.scottloperstory.com/]Scott Loper Website[/url]
[url=http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=66203]Net Daily Articles[/url]

HOWEVER, in the interests of fairness, this man claims to have lived for 11 years in Canada, partially in Durham Region. If this is true, then SOMEONE must have seen him. I figure if I post it up here in [affectionately said] Lefty Land where we don't trust the government, he's more likely to get a fair hearing [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Much as I don't want to send this information viral, it's going that way, anyway.

This video shows his face:
[url=http://www.scottloperstory.com/vid-loper.html]Scott Loper on Video[/url]

So, for anyone who can verify or deny his stories please contact his lawyers and Bob Unruh of World Net Daily.

And keep Rabble posted.

Thanks!

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Maybe I didn't read all that stuff as closely as you, but I didn't see all the "holes" that you claim to see.

I'm a notorious skeptic, but I haven't seen anything so far that sounds impossible, much less like a hoax.

What am I missing?

TVParkdale

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Maybe I didn't read all that stuff as closely as you, but I didn't see all the "holes" that you claim to see.

I'm a notorious skeptic, but I haven't seen anything so far that sounds impossible, much less like a hoax.

What am I missing?[/b]


This conspiracy would have to include practically every person in the country.

[LIST]Where are the court documents for the restraining orders?

Police don't issue restraining orders--the court does. They are issued because there is a threat to another citizen's safety. First there must be evidence and a hearing to put the order in place. Then the perpetrator must *breach* the order. This goes back to court for another hearing. Sometimes there is a third hearing. During EACH phase, a lawyer is present even if it's only duty council so...plus, it's an open court.

Where's the lawyer[s]? Court witnesses?

Where are the court transcripts?

WHAT "mental health facility" did Loper attend?
Is every doctor, nurse and patient etc. who saw this man for 72 hours ALSO on the Durham cop payroll?

Where are the perkinje [how OHIP pays, these records cannot be deleted, even by the original file creator] records that prove he was taken to such a facility? The police have no access to those records. Why did he not have his lawyer send a release for copies of those records? They must, by law, provide them.

Then he claims they dropped him off at a shelter. Which one? Shelter workers usually believe stories of police brutality but not one worker remembers him? Or why he was brought in? Why did he/lawyer not send a release form to have copies of those records?

When Whitby jail closed, what jail did he go to?
Since jails are provincial/federal--where is *their* paperwork? After all, how else did they receive their per diem payments?

Why did this man NOT list his child as missing at "Child Find"?

Where are the marriage/divorce records for wives, 1, 2 & 3?

He claims those records disappeared but what about the tax records? Did Durham police erase those too? How?

Where is the proof that he entered the country legally by marrying Canadian wife #1?

Why are there no transfer papers when he was moved from Whitby to another facility?

At this unnamed facility he can't find one guard, or prisoner will testify that they saw him there?

What would a credit card company have to gain by illegally deleting *their* records on behalf of Durham police?

Where did he work in Canada prior to being imprisoned, if he was here for 11 years? Why has he no record of employment to prove he was here?

He claims they erased his driver's license. What would the Department of Transport have to gain by doing that?

He claims the cops drove him to the border and dropped him off? How did they do that? Get him out of prison and put him in their personal vehicle since squad cars aren't allowed out of jurisdiction?

If so, how come a guy claiming to be an expert police surveiller, can't provide the license plate number of the car that dropped him off?

Why does he not provide ANY names? What is his wife's maiden name? Surely someone in her family would remember her being married to him.

[/LIST]

I uploaded his video in the hopes that SOMEONE in Canada might identify him in context. He claims to have been here 11 years.

If he had just said the cops pounded the crap out of him, or set him up on drug charges--THAT might be believable. I might even buy that they didn't send in the correct paperwork deliberately.

But the rest of it? Tin foil hat time. Which makes his whole X-files story lack credibility.

Given the paperwork nightmare of bureaucracy in Canuck systems--nobody is going to tell me that he, the reporter that's covering it, or a lawyer can't find a single scrap of paper or a single witness after two years of looking.

[ 28 October 2008: Message edited by: TVParkdale ]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Your questions don't seem to relate to anything I have read on either the Scott Loper website or in the World Net Daily. I haven't seen where either he or the government is claiming that those records you speak of have disappeared or don't exist. I haven't seen where there is any indication that the RCMP would have been involved or would have any paperwork on this. I don't see where he claims his driver's licence was "erased".

How would his marriage records, tax records, employment records, etc. prove or disprove his central claim, which was that he discovered police corruption and was jailed and tortured as a result?

I guess I didn't read everything as closely as you, because I'm reluctant to spend a lot of time on it.

TVParkdale

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Your questions don't seem to relate to anything I have read on either the Scott Loper website or in the World Net Daily. I haven't seen where either he or the government is claiming that those records you speak of have disappeared or don't exist. I haven't seen where there is any indication that the RCMP would have been involved or would have any paperwork on this. I don't see where he claims his driver's licence was "erased".

How would his marriage records, tax records, employment records, etc. prove or disprove his central claim, which was that he discovered police corruption and was jailed and tortured as a result?

I guess I didn't read everything as closely as you, because I'm reluctant to spend a lot of time on it.[/b]


He does say that he won't name the Toronto Star reporter who was going to run the story [youtube video 2:30 apx] then, after saying that, calls the reporter "Rob'.

I find that bizarre because the Star has run dozens of articles on police corruption. Suddenly they're afraid, "I have a family"?

At 3:08 [youtube] he states that Canada says there was no record of him being there at all, "No driver's license, no credit cards and [i]no record that I had ever lived there at all[/i]. Understandable if you are holding an American citizen you are going to delete him from government data bases."

My question is: If he was here for 11 years, why isn't he producing a single witness or shred of paper that proves his existence for those 11 years? The entire intertubes suddenly disappear or something? This is an ex cop, or so he claims.

All that's actually available is a Toronto Star mock-up [questionable], an indecipherable form ostensibly from Immigration, and a fuzzy picture of a child. A child, I might add, that he claims is missing although he didn't put the boy up on "Child Find" or other child find sites I looked for.

In my estimation, that's not proof.

Here's this huge controversy, yet in the past 4 years, not one major news outlet would touch it? This is an investigative reporter's wet dream--if there was proof.

5:23 [youtube] "I was taken to a mental facility for a three day evaluation...doctors found nothing wrong"
Which facility and who were the doctors? Nurses? Other patients? Records--which you can demand, quite easily BTW just by signing a release form. He later states "Doctors found nothing wrong, we have the medical proof of that."

Then why wouldn't he put *that* on his website as proof he was detained? The form would state that the police brought him in and the reason. Also, it would provide date and time and what the discharge plan [shelter and which one] was.

Why didn't they just send him back home to his wife after the assessment was done?

He states he went to a men's shelter. Which one? He says he called his wife from there to beg her to call the authorities, stick together and tell the truth. She said, "I can't" and then 4-5 Durham police cars showed up.

Now anyone who has ever worked at a shelter can tell you, it's just not that simple. Plus, when the police arrive there must be an incident report documented with badge numbers usually, as well as date and time. Those records are easily requested as well. Yet there's nothing on the website with that important piece of proof. Shelter workers also see a lot of police brutality victims so they tend to be cautious around protecting the residents' rights

4 or 5 police cars? [apx 8-10 cops] For one guy? For making a non-threatening phone call? Does that sound plausible to you? And how did the patrol cops get in on the scheme with the plain clothes drug detectives? Durham has 800 cops. What are the chances?

Then he claims cops threw him in the jail cell and tortured him. Then he goes onto a big Pro-American rant.

Nothing about being booked. Nothing about the court hearing or where it was held.

Right off his own website:
"He was released and served a restraining order at the same time. The restraining order was instigated by his wife, Carolyn. "

In order to get a restraining order--he has the right to dispute it in court. Nowhere does he say that he did. If he breaches it--he goes through court [even though once it's issued the police can hold him until the court hearing to determine dangerousness] He didn't say that, either.

From his own website:
"Loper was charged and convicted of violating that restraining order and sentenced to 2 years in prison. He was returned to Whitby to serve his sentence."

"While in the Whitby Jail, Loper tried to write a letter to a relative of his wife's hoping to work together to turn the situation around and bring these rogue cops to justice. That letter garnered a second two-year sentence."

Now, he's under an order not to make contact. He claims he was a cop. He can't claim he doesn't know what "no contact" means. He writes her family anyway? Right before he's going to be released?

Where is all the information from the second court case?

"Given the unknowns, the possibility must be assumed that Carolyn may be in hiding - and - due to the fact that a restraining order is still in effect, the possibility must also be assumed that this may be a decision of choice."

She would have to reapply for that order every 2 years and he would be notified. Yet, in the past four years he has not shown up for the court dates, or sent in any affidavits, etc. to prove he isn't dangerous?

While he has a story about eavesdropping illegally on drug dealing cops who dragged him off to torture him and a website you can donate for his 'defense fund'.

Was he in jail? Possibly. For catching the cops in drug deals? Unlikely.

Why drag his wife into it at all? If dirty cops wanted him, they could have just planted the dope, threw him in on a drug rap and been done with it. What court would believe he was innocent? That's been done before.

Why take him to a mental institution? Let the hospital send him to a shelter where he could freely walk right out the front door?

Then have his wife run in and out of court for restraining orders over the next 8 years?

None of it makes any sense.

That's why I'd like to see what Canuckistans that knew him, when/if he was here, have to say about it.

Buddy Logan

Parkdale - I'm afraid you are trying to make a lot of points that are either irrelevant or misunderstood. Hopefully, I can help clear some of that up. There are also many statements you attribute to Scott Loper or the Web site that, simply, were not made. I don't have the time to address each one, and I feel that the facts are on the Web site, so I will try to stick to what is relevant.

I have been working with Scott, his attorney, and the media with this story for well over a year.

First of all (and this should clear up several points), the question of whether Scott Loper was in Canada for 11 years or not, who he was married to before Carolyn, where he worked, etc. etc. etc. is irrelevant. What is relevant is that his drivers license and other evidence of his residency in Canada, on his person when he was arrested, were destroyed and, when the U.S. State Department originally approached the Canadian government, that government tried to deny that he ever lived there. This issue was cleared up early on, when Scott, through the U.S. State Department, produced evidence the Canadians could not refute, that he not only lived there, but was incarcerated in Canada. They then stammered around, finally producing a document, unsigned by Scott Loper, and dated three years after he was arrested, as "proof" that he had waived his Vienna Convention rights. All this information, including the document, can be found on the Web site. These actions on the part of the Canadian government only prove two things; 1) Scott Loper was incarcerated in Canada; 2) The Canadian government is trying to make a false and fraudulent case. On the U.S. side, this is compounded by the fact that the State Department is willing to accept this document as valid, wheras it has no significance whatsoever as valid evidence of anything they are claiming it to be. It's like saying "I know you ate the ice cream because there is a bowl of cerial on the table!"

The State Department, Bureau of Consular Affairs, Children's Issues, as noted by documents on the Web site, is working on the issue of the disappearance of Scott's son Eddy. What is relevant is that the Canadian government knows where Eddy and Carolyn are. They just aren't telling. The reason they give for this is that Carolyn is in a "witness protection program". Investigators have somewhat proven this fact (some even speculating she is no longer alive) in that, at a certain point, her paper trail comes to an abrupt halt. The questions here are witness for whom? Against what? As far as we know, the only relevant reason would be the evidence that Scott Loper compiled against this Durham Regional Police gang, of which Carolyn was aware. If that is so, then either the government was interested in prosecuting these thugs or (more likely) covering the whole thing up by getting her out of the way.

You somehow are, apparently, confused as to who is involved in conspiracy and who is not, and what the motivations of either are or might be. Hopefully, I can clear some of this up as well. The original conspiracy involves a small number of Durham Region Police officers who were desparately trying to keep themselves out of the slammer. No one else was involved in this conspiracy, other than some jail guards at the Whitby Jail who either participated or were aware of what was going on. Would we like to talk to someone who was there who is willing to tell the truth? Of course we would! What is really relevant here is that the Canadian govenment, from one end to the other, has a fear that bad news about the police will cause the Canadian public to lose faith in law enforcement. This fear has morphed into a policy of covering up and whitewashing crimes committed by the police. This is very scary, as it allows gangster-like crime to fester within the very organizations developed to keep such atrocities in check. On the ScootLoperStory.com Web site, abount 3/4 of the way down the first column on the home page, under the title "A Policy of Concealment", you will find a link to a report on a study conducted by the International Society for the Reform of Criminal Law, based in Vancouver, B.C. This organization consists of Crown prosecutors and other attorneys and legal experts. The report is called "Canada's Approach to Battling Police Corruption, and it is a startling report.

As far as the mental ward. The Durham cops had to act fast. Apparently it was the quickest means to get him out of the way (since, once admitted, there is a mandatory 72-hour evaluation) while they ransacked his apartment trying to get hold of the evidence that would prove their criminal activity.  There was no "conspiracy" within the mental hospital. They simply did their mandatory 72-hour evaluation and that was that.  This is clearly brought out on the Web site.

What is relevent in this case are the following facts:

1. Scott Loper has an 11-year-old son who has not seen his father since he was 3-years-old. The Canadian Government knows the location of his son.

2. Scott Loper was arrested for "Breech of Court Order". There was no hearing. There was no paperwork handed to him. He was simply arrested and it was a good six months before he ever saw a court room. After six months of this kind of torture, how well do you think you would do in a courtroom where you are not allowed to speak and a charge of "Breech of Court Order" somehow morphes into "Criminal harrassment" (and, eventually into "Felony Criminal Harrassment") - where you are told to "keep quite or else" by people who have already proven their ability to follow through with hideous deeds, and you are barely aware of what the hell is going on, anyway.

3. Scott's Vienna Convention rights, which state that the foreign government must allow "without delay" the means for a detained national to contact his consulate or embassy, were denied, thus allowing illegal charges to be acted upon and even esculated, and two years of harrassment and torture to occur.  The Canadians, by their actions, have proven these rights were denied.

4. The Canadian government first tried to state that Scott Loper never lived in Canada, let alone, was arrested there. When this was proven to be untrue, they tried to pass off a totally irrelevant document as evidence that Loper had waived his Vienna Convention rights. The Canadians have refused to provide any other information. Why?

5. Investigations into the very people Loper was trying to expose, which began while he was incarcerated, were whitwashed, with minor charges hung on one scapegoat. This has proven to be normal procedure in Canadian police corruption cases.

6. Police corruption in Canada is allowed to grow and fester, creating a dangerous threat to Canadian society.

7. Although several congressmen have attempted to right the issue, the U.S. State Department is more interested in aiding the Canadian government in a coverup than upholding the rights of one of its citizens.

8. Most of the evidence in this case is in the hands of the Canadian government. They are not talking. The U.S. State Department has the power to change this.  We have to rely on public pressure to bring out the facts in this case.

9. We are not asking you to believe what cannot be proven. We are asking U.S. and Canadian citizens to pressure the Canadian government into coming forth with and dealing with the evidence and the facts.

TVParkdale

How is it "not relevant" that not a single witness attested to the allegation that Scott Loper lived in Canada for years?

 

Much as Americans like to think we're stupid, why has no one come forth or sent a a statement that says they knew him in 11 years?

 

As I said--whatever occurred, this is an X-files story.

 

I have no great love for Durham Region, and I have no doubt there are dirty cops everwhere, however, as I said, "massive conspiracy" isn't exactly their strong suit. Planting evidence and battering suspects/witnesses, can be.

 

And again, I reiterate--no shelter or medical files? The police do not have access to deleting those medical records and certainly not the Mickey Mouse Durham police.

 

You keep claiming Loper never went to court. Well obviously, you must think this is a third world country where a court order and imprisonment can be issued without going to court. Not possible. Bullcrap. End of story. The justice system might suck but I worked in diversion court systems as well as women's rights against assaultive men so I can assure you, ALL of those situations require that the subject be present in the courtroom.

 

Maybe Americans are naive enough to buy that. Idon't.

 

An unsigned document "waving Vienna rights" is not evidence of anything other than having a copy of a document available on a public website. I know, I looked it up--and there it was, large as life on the government website. Maybe I should print you a copy?

 

 

 

 

Jacob Two-Two

Sorry, parkdale. He sounds a lot more convincing than you do. He just said there is evidence that bucko was incarcerated in Canada and you're still demanding he turn up some friends? Some people live very lonely lives, man. It doesn't mean he wasn't there. Besides, that could be untrue and he still might have been confined and tortured. Sounds like an investigation should be made and a trial should be held to sort this out, eh? Let's see what they turn up in court and then you can rant and rave. I don't know why you seem so emotionally involved in discrediting this guy.

TVParkdale

One doesn't have "trials" over government misconduct. An investigation perhaps.

I find the story completely discrediting. It makes no sense. In 11 years nobody saw him at the local Mac's milk? What was he, a hermit? You buy that?

Come on--Canadians love an underdog and love to discredit the government yet he is the product of some big conspiracy and is requesting money for his legal fund all over the place by exploiting Americans who know nothing about how Canadian justice systems work.

His story doesn't hold any water. I just proved why in at least 20 points. It's why no credible Canadian journalist is willing to cover this story.

If you want to invest in this emotionally, be my guest. However, it makes no sense given how the justice system works here.If you don't believe me, fine. Research Ontario law and how the justice system works.

As I said, if he simply claimed the cops beat him up or stashed dope on him, I'd probably believe the guy. Except his "wife" just up and "disappeared" which smells to me of something else, entirely. Unlike the US, witness protection is so rare as to be laughable, here.

The police have no access to medical payment files. Period. End of story. Can't be erased. Must be there.

The whole story isn't plausible. The entire country isn't covering up just to save some dirty cops. That's simply ludicrous. Nobody likes Durham that much. RCMP have nailed them quite a number of times.

Not one address given so that the neighbours can be checked? Interesting. Because I lived in Durham and I know how to get the information on who the neighbours, who lived where, when and suchlike. It isn't difficult.  A few neighbours must have seen him, some time. Most people there own there own houses and don't move around much. Funny how nobody bothered with that. Or not one prisoner ever saw him? They'd love to roast the cops. Yet none claim to have seen him and he can't remember a single name? An ex cop?

 

Those are ALL relevant concerns if one is insistent on proving a case. His "proof" consists of an unsigned form available on a public website and a newspaper article.

And the government claiming they have no idea what he's talking about.

 

 

Sineed

Quote:
"I was arrested and locked in a filthy cockroach infested solitary confinement with no light, no heat. I was starved, beaten, tortured with a scalding shower tapped off a radiator pipe while in a locked cage, and put into a steel coffin for weeks at a time…"

I know a little something about Ontario Corrections, and this doesn't happen. 

I call hoax.

Jacob Two-Two

"I find the story completely discrediting. It makes no sense. In 11 years nobody saw him at the local Mac's milk? What was he, a hermit? You buy that?"

That's not even slightly hard to buy. There are people everywhere that nobody ever sees, locked away in small apartments, rarely going outside and speaking to no one. So unremarkable that they go totally unnoticed at their big-box grocery store. No family, no friends, no human contact. You would be surprised how many people live that way.

remind remind's picture

Have not been following this at all,  but the witness protection is not rare here, nor are relocations to get women away from dangerous spouses, and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

 

 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

remind wrote:

Have not been following this at all,  but the witness protection is not rare here, nor are relocations to get women away from dangerous spouses, and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

 

 

ye witnesses will get moved to public housing in random places like London, Ontario it usually in the province unless it a federal case. Couple cities they use a lot are lil cities in the gta, halifax, and sometimes places in Alberta.

remind remind's picture

They get moved to BC too. I have personally worked with 2 families who were part of a relocation program and came from back east, one was from Ontario and the other from New Brunswick. While I know of a couple of others from BC who were sent "somewhere".

Tommy_Paine

 

Then there's Ottawa, where the senate is used as part of the national "witless protection program."

remind remind's picture

LOL tommy!

Buddy Logan

Parkdale -

I am not writing this to clarify things to you, as clarity does not seem to be your interest. There are many arm-chair detectives on the internet who seem to derive some sort of self-importance by proclaiming to debunk everything in the world, and there are always those who thrive on negativity to cheer them on. As in your case, most of the time they have not read (or comprehended) the facts because they are too busy blustering. I have learned that defending against such individuals is a time-consuming and fruitless effort, as their only point is one of argument. So, when you refute their statements, they either keep repeating statements you have already refuted or accuse you of making other statements you have never made, both of which you have done, and it just continues on and on. I have better things to do with my time.

So, for those of you who may be sitting on the fence or confused by our friend here, it seems that I should reiterate what I thought I had previously stated. Please let me attempt to do a better job this time, without (for the sake of clarity) getting into too much detail about matters that are expressed quite in detail on the Web site, ScottLoperStory.com.

First of all, the word "hoax" has been used here. To that, I can only respond "to what end?"  There are usually one of two reasons for someone or some group to perpetrate a hoax. One is to play a joke, the other is to produce some sort of gain for the perpetrator. The actuality that one has not read all the facts, or has misconstrued or misunderstood those facts, does not provide him or her a legitimate reason to claim "hoax". Of course, that person has the right to say whatever they want, but just because someone has the right to say something does not provide the statement any validity. A good investigator deals with facts - not conjecture or wild speculation.  So, reader, please keep these two thoughts at hand; 1) FACTS are FACTS; 2) What would a person have to gain by involving U.S. Congressional representatives, a civil rights attorney, the U.S. State Department and the Canadian Government in such a hoax?

Before getting to the actual FACTS, please allow me to debunk the debunker by stating what we have NOT said and by re-answering (for the SECOND time) some of the questions posed by Parkdale:

No One to Verify Scott Loper Lived in Canada

{sigh} We never said there were no witnesses who would come forth to testify that Scott Loper lived in Canada. Frankly, the fact that Parkdale keeps harping on this point not only raises a question of his/her intelligence, but his/her ability to read comes into question as well. The issue here is well laid out on the Web site (at least, I believe I did a fair job of it) and was, most certainly addressed in my last post on this page.  The point was that the Canadians removed Scott Loper's identification from his personal belongings before releasing him and, at first, (until it was proven otherwise) tried to say he never lived in Canada. The point Parkdale is trying to make is irrelevent first of all because he/she does not have their facts straight and, more importantly, because the issue was resolved long ago. The point (once again) is in the initial denial by the Canadians.

"Massive Conspiracy" 

Obviously, Parkdale did not read my previous reply. It seems that at least one other person did not either, so, once again, I reiterate.  No "massive conspiracy" here. Just two factors; 1) A gang of well-organized crooked cops; 2) A government that has a known history of whitewashing police corruption for fear that the public will lose confidence in law enforcement. This was well brought out in a study by Crown prosecutors and other legal experts, in a report by this group that I cited in my previous response. It is the same reason that the government, be it local, provincial or otherwise, confiscates news media video property whenever the police are involved in a controversy. If you find this statement unbelieveable, do some research. Oh ... and ... read the report. it is on the Web site, ScottLoperStory.com. A downloadable PDF is available - Home page, left column, under the sub-title "A Policy of Concealment".

Medical Records Erased?

We never said ANYTHING about any medical records having been erased. Never even implied such. What would be the purpose in doing so? I don't get it. The point here was that it was a quick means for these crooked cops to get Scott out of the way for 72 hours so that they could ransack his home looking for evidence that could destroy their illegal operations. It is not an uncommon tactic among corrupt police in Canada.

"You keep claiming Loper never went to court" 

Never made any such statement whatsoever. It would probably be advisable, Parkdale, to understand a subject before commenting on it. At least, I find that to be a little more efficient than just rambling on making claims that have absolutely no basis in fact. It was, however, six months between the time of his arrest and his appearance in a court room.  All this is described in detail at ScottLoperStory.com.

Unsigned Document

Parkdale stated "An unsigned document 'waving Vienna rights' is not evidence of anything..."  Exactly our point. However, the Canadian Government is trying to say that it IS.

"... requesting money for his legal fund all over the place ..." 

What place? This is almost laughable. Although a couple of groups have taken up this cause in the past, we asked them to cease. We are not trying to raise money. We are trying to raise awareness. To do anything that would imply anything different would be counter-productive.  When people who were interested in the case discovered that civil rights attorney C. Scott Shields was volunteering his time to help Scott Loper achieve justice, it was suggested that we make a reference on the Web site if people care to donate to Scott's legal defense. There are no big requests for donations on the Web site, or anywhere else.  There is simply a menu selection that says "Legal Defense Fund".  Selecting that menu choice will provide a page with C. Scott Shields contact information, and a line that reads "You can help by sending a contribution of any size..." Mr. Shields may have netted enough from this fund to buy himself a good meal.  He has spent countless hours and personal funds on this case.

Now - to address a couple of other commentators:

Sineed  - Sineed says "I know a little something about Ontario Corrections, and this doesn't happen."  What is it you know, Sineed? "A little something" is not very descriptive. What can you tell me about the Whitby Jail. What can you tell me about the intererelation between the Durham Reginal Police and the jail guards at Whitby. You say this doesn't happen. On what do you base your opinions?  How does your "knowledge" relate to the situation at Whitby Jail?

Tommy Paine - Thanks for the chuckle!

---------------- T H E  F A C T S ----------------

The facts in the case, at this juncture, are fairly simple - mainly because the Canadian Government is hanging on to most of them and they are not letting go. There are many points, but I am talking here about VERIFYABLE FACTS, which are: 

  1. Scott Loper was arrested for "Breech of Court Order". These charges somehow escalated to "Felony Criminal Harrassment".
  2. Scott Loper's ex-wife and 11-year-old son are "missing".  The Canadian government knows where they are. They are not telling.
  3. Four U.S. Congressional representatives have all tried to push the U.S. State Department to put pressure on the Canadians to do what is decent and right. The State Department has proven to have a stronger desire to please the Canadian government than one of its own citizens, forcing one Congressman (Frank Wolf) to make the comment that the State Department is not interested in defending the rights of ANY U.S. citizen who's Vienna Convention rights have been violated by a foreign country.
  4. After first denying that Scott Loper ever even lived in Canada, that government, when proven wrong, then produced an unsigned document from an admisability hearing, dated three years after he was arrested, as a waiver of Scott's Vienna Convention rights.  This document has no meaning whatsoever on that factor and, indeed, simply proves, by their holding it up as evidence, that the Canadians have NO such waiver. Furthermore, if it were a valid document, it would only prove, beyond a doubt, that the Canadians violated Scott Loper's Vienna Convention rights to contact his consulate "without delay."

---------------- O U R  G O A L----------------

There is no justifyable reason for what happened to Scott Loper, and there is no reason he and his son should be deprived of a relationship with one another.  We are not on a crusade to change the Canadian system although, if we can contribute to that in some why by exposing this case, this can only be a positive side effect.

This is an issue on the U.S. side where the government refuses to protect its citizens. It is an issue on the Canadian side for a number of reasons - most importantly, where it regards police corruption and a policy of the government. from one level to another, of either sticking their heads in the sand or, when that doesn't work, working hard to whitewash crime and corruption.

It has become sadly apparent that the only way we are going to get to the facts of the Scott Loper Story is through public outcry. That is our purpose, and that is what we are trying to do.

------------- M E D I A   I N F O R M A T I O N --------------

There are other documents and information in this case that we can not, at this time, put on public display, due to the necessity of protecting the sources of this information.  However, if you are a VERIFYABLE member of the media, and wish to contact me concerning this information, please do not hesitate to do so. My contact information is available on the ScottLoperStory.com Web site, under "Media Contact"

If any one else has any questions or, more importantly, information they would like to address directly to me, please do so

 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

if the can gov keeps police brutality n corruption on the streets from bein shown what makes you think they wont cover up at higher lvl on top of what the post on top

Buddy Logan

Rexdale - Not sure exactly what the heck you said, but I think I got the gist. The answer is nothing makes us think the Canadian government would not try to cover up corruption on any level. They have proven they are more then willing to do so. As one Canadian official relayed to a member of the State Department. "Well, we can't have people losing faith in law enforcement."

I don't care whether you are talking about local or regional police or mounties. Here is the standard procedure (A simple study will prove this out):

  1. Ignore the problem.
  2. When Level 1 fails, due to information leakage to the public or a victim who's story has been told in the press, launch an "internal investigation". While you are doing this, check out the victim and see how credible they are and what you can do to deflate any credibility they might have, in case you have to go to level 4.
  3. Conclude the investigation stating publicly that you have found no problems, that the police force is functioning as it should, and all is well. If you have any individuals on the force who may cause further problems because they are known or reckless, transfer them to another department or assist them with law enforcement employment elsewhere.  It is never advisable to dismiss anyone. This can cause hard feelings, and due to the type of individuals involved in these sort of crimes, could cause you a lot more headaches.
  4. This step may be necessary if any witnesses have substantial credibility (as opposed to being a drug dealer, bar owner, etc.), or the media is doing extensive investigations and has evidence that local officials are lying or otherwise covering up. This step calls for lots of media publicity. You must appear open and extemely dedicated to getting at the core of the problem, "if there is one", all the while stating you believe there is no problem. You announce that you are calling in an "outside agency" to do another investigation.  This also assures that the people being investiogated are well aware of what is going on.  However, you need to be proactive in the media circus.
  5. Announce the conclusion of the internal investigation from an outside agency, and let the public know that no legitimate evidence of police corruption was found. Statements from the "outside" agency will back you up on this.
  6. Level 5 will only fail if there is a preponderance of evidence against particular individuals. This could happen if there are a large number of witnesses, or substantially certified witnesses, neither of which is usually the case, or, if there is evidence, such as video or audio that can place specific indivuals at the scene of a crime. Now, the situation is beginning to be a problem. You must look for a scapegoat. No matter how many individuals are involved, you need to find one person. By any means, avoid any implications that this may be any type of organized activity. Once again, bring in an "outside" agency.
  7. Announce that you have done further investigations and have found suspicious activites on the part of one officer and that, even though you have not found the individual is actually guilty of any wrong-doing, you have asked for his/her resignation. If someone actually has something on this person that is hard to brush off, announce that you have solved the problem by dismissing them. In either case, assist the officer in finding law enforcement employment elsewhere.
  8. Level 8 is a serious matter. This will occur if there is really serious evidence that cannot be easily dismissed. You are going to have to put someone on trial. This should be avoided at all costs, but, if it is inevitable, by now you should have transferred away some of your problem individuals and set up your scapegoat to take the blame. However, you still want to avoid prosecution without a public perception that you are trying to protect a bad guy. Do not cooperate with prosecutors. When information is requested by the court, delay. If the court is asking for records you are not required to keep, and you can easily do so, tell the court you do not have them. Keep in mind that court prosecutors may not be on your side and may not feel the same need to protect the public perception of law enforcement as a shining example of faith, trust and virtue.
  9. If the trial turns out good, the officer will be exonerated or a mistrial will be declared. If it turns out badly, the officer will be convicted. Either way, you will be able to announce that the problem has been solved, and things are now back to "normal".

Canada is the only country in the world where you can sit down at a restaurant and see a welcoming Mountie smiling up at you from the placemat.

 

remind remind's picture

That is because every effort has been made to turn them into an into a supposed harmless cartoon character, obscuring really what they are.

Buddy Logan

Well, exactly. It was a good PR job, and not without its merits. Idealistically, this is what we want - a police force we can look upon to be virtuistic defenders of the principles we believe in as a society.

The problem is, many Canadians and, most particularly, the government and, certainly, law enforcement, want to keep watching the cartoon while Sergeant Preston and Dudly Do-Right are wacking off Bullwinkle's legs behind the repeating background, and convincing their co-workers that they can get away with it because the government will just create another Bullwinkle and go on with the show.

So, Preston and Do-Right are getting quite a group together while officials just keep propping up the show for people's enjoyment.

My respect goes out to all the great people in law enforcement who have gone into that profession out of a strong social consciousness and a desire to be a positive force in society, and I am sorry you are being undermined by such ridiculous and ignorant policies that only continue to allow a bad desease to fester.

TVParkdale

Sineed wrote:

Quote:
"I was arrested and locked in a filthy cockroach infested solitary confinement with no light, no heat. I was starved, beaten, tortured with a scalding shower tapped off a radiator pipe while in a locked cage, and put into a steel coffin for weeks at a time…"

I know a little something about Ontario Corrections, and this doesn't happen. 

I call hoax.

 

Well abuse allegations in the prison system aside, Durham REGIONAL putting someone in Whitby PROVINCIAL jail without requisite paperwork proving a court case, is just the ultimate in stupidity about how government bureaucracies are actually run. So, every guard at Whitby jail who could have been terminated for breaking the law just went along with Durham REGIONAL'S big scam? With THEIR union?

What does Buddy here think--all jail guards and management are that stupid over one prisoner? Uh HELLO?

 

Buddy, the Durham cops beat people up AT THE COP SHOP if they're going to beat them up. Or at the beach, just like in Toronto. They did NOT take them to Whitby jail to beat them up. They have cells available in Oshawa [and possibly nowadays, Pickering/Ajax and Whitby] until a suspect is legally transferred. Durham has lots of hidey holes to pound the crap out of people without witnesses. So this story just gets dumber and dumber.

 

Now, suddenly "we can't put the information out there" because "someone would be at risk"? Oh puleeze. Right. Durham Regional cops are going to go flying down to the USA and beat someone up. It's years later. Who cares?

 

And yes, There it was, when I researched, requests for money for Scott's "legal case" donations welcome right on the front pages of the website, unless it's since been moved.

TVParkdale

remind wrote:

They get moved to BC too. I have personally worked with 2 families who were part of a relocation program and came from back east, one was from Ontario and the other from New Brunswick. While I know of a couple of others from BC who were sent "somewhere".

 

Frankly remind that's what I think about this case. I think she agreed to be moved as part of a domestic assault program. I don't think this is any "big conspiracy". I think it's blatently obvious what went on.

And anyone who knows that absolute incompetence of bureacracy here would know it doesn't take a big conspiracy to feck up paperwork here--one typo and 77 transfers later, it's a bollocks and takes 12 lawyers and 4 activists just to get your SIN number back.

 

Frankly this crap just takes away from the real problems people experience.

TVParkdale

Buddy Logan wrote:

Well, exactly. It was a good PR job, and not without its merits. Idealistically, this is what we want - a police force we can look upon to be virtuistic defenders of the principles we believe in as a society.

The problem is, many Canadians and, most particularly, the government and, certainly, law enforcement, want to keep watching the cartoon while Sergeant Preston and Dudly Do-Right are wacking off Bullwinkle's legs behind the repeating background, and convincing their co-workers that they can get away with it because the government will just create another Bullwinkle and go on with the show.

So, Preston and Do-Right are getting quite a group together while officials just keep propping up the show for people's enjoyment.

 

Look as a teen in Durham and having seen the game first hand, I know how crappy the cops there, are/were sometimes. However Loper's story doesn't make any sense, still.

 

I had buddies beat up by Durham's finest. I watched them crack heads. It was open and blatent as were trips to the cop shop and to the lake. Most impoverished teens knew all about it.

Would I like to see it fixed? Yes.

I also know how many systems work because I've had to deal with them for clients with legitimate beefs.

But I also know an idiotic story like this makes the job of people who are TRYING to do something about it, that much harder by defending this completely implausible fairy tale.

The Bish

Does anyone have any information on this case that comes from a remotely reliable source?  You'll have to excuse me if I don't take WorldNet Daily as the most trustworthy place to find information.

Green Grouch

I've yet to find a remotely reliable source. I don't think there is one. I do see that "Buddy Logan" pops up on another forum, which also features people questioning this story: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68437

This story would have zero legs (as opposed to its current single leg) if it didn't involve us evil Canadians and a general American fear of things called borders/ other countries. Slow work days and healthy doses of paranoia also help. It's not worth the discussion-- there are too many genuine horror stories out there.

remind remind's picture

TVParkdale wrote:
Frankly remind that's what I think about this case. I think she agreed to be moved as part of a domestic assault program. I don't think this is any "big conspiracy". I think it's blatently obvious what went on.

And anyone who knows that absolute incompetence of bureacracy here would know it doesn't take a big conspiracy to feck up paperwork here--one typo and 77 transfers later, it's a bollocks and takes 12 lawyers and 4 activists just to get your SIN number back.

 

Frankly this crap just takes away from the real problems people experience.

Hmm.....do you think this guy is actually trying to,  as the ultimate goal, find his wife? Or is he just on the sting?

Though the whole thing is a bit weird with the Can gov at first saying he was never in Canada. So it seems to me to be a bit more to all this than  a spousal relocation.

 

Noise

Buddy Logan, one question for you...that I think will bring alot of credibility as it appears everyone is asking for it.  The question came up on that Webslueths site, and Parkdale has brought it up here as well...which you've dodged as 'irrelevant' so far

Quote:
But, where is evidence. The witness. The documents. The trial transcripts. The MENTAL HEALTH report. I would really want to read the mental health report.

Where is the transcript from his 72 hour mental health evaluation? It'd shed alot of light on this and shouldn'tbe difficult to obtain. Actually, any of those documents would be helpful, right now all we have is a 2003 unsigned document and a story (website documentation centered around response from American gov't and provides nothing additional)...sadly it's still just a story until then.

 

Even the lack of court documentation in regards to:

Quote:
The torture began, in Loper's estimation, two days later. It would be five months before he was finally brought into court, unclean and unshaven. He was placed behind glass, as is the procedure in Canada, handcuffed and shackled, unable to consult with his court-appointed attorney or address the court in his own defense.

Sitting there in the court room, after five months of solitary confinement and torture, Loper was distraught and confused. Somehow, the original charges of "Breach of Court Order" had escalated to "Criminal Harrassment". "All I can remember is feeling like they were making me out to be some sort of Charles Manson or something", said Loper. "The prosecutor said I was very dangerous.... I was threatening the police. I was a danger to society if I were to be released."

His court-appointed attorney provided a feeble and disorganized defense. "I can remember the Judge commented, "Mr. Loper, in my estimation you are a very dangerous man", said Loper. He was convicted and sentenced to two years and returned to the Whitby Jail.

"I was in a daze", Loper said. After several months of being malnourished and tortured, I was barely coherent of what was going on. I started to sob. I was a mess. I tried to tell the judge 'I just made a phone call', but he threatened me with contempt."

I was laughed at, and drug out of Court by Police.

 All you've got right now is a single doucment and a line about canadians investigating corrupt cops, nothing else...And apparently it's been at this 'nothing else' phase for several years.  Are you having problems obtaining said documentation, or is there some other hesitation in obtaining these documents?  

Even something to back up this statement would be nice:

Quote:
Somehow, the original charges of "Breach of Court Order" had escalated to "Criminal Harrassment".

 Do you even have a document showing that he was infact brought up on "Criminal Harrassment" charges?

 

Jacobtwotwo:

Quote:
That's not even slightly hard to buy. There are people everywhere that nobody ever sees, locked away in small apartments, rarely going outside and speaking to no one. So unremarkable that they go totally unnoticed at their big-box grocery store. No family, no friends, no human contact. You would be surprised how many people live that way

 

Thats just silly Jacob, if you buy that I've got the deed to the broklyn bridge to sell you for $20. He came to canada with wife 1, divorced and married wife 2 and is now in the states with wife 3. Pretty impressive accomplishments for someone who's got no human contact, no?

Buddy Logan

Ginnie - What's your REAL name - something tells me it would be "Nick".

I know Scott well. The LAST thing he is is a woman beater. Glad to know you are sweating enough to be scanning the Internet looking for stories. You can try to bafoon all you want. You better start thinking about where you can hide!

Scott was transfered to one other prison after Whitby and there was no failure to mention that.

Q: "dude where do you get your information?"  A: Provincial records.

Not out to bash Canada - just crooked jerks like you.  Most of my family are born and raised Canadians. As a matter of fact, most of them live in Ontario.

Noise - I apologize for not responding to your legitimate questions right away. Actually, I did, and, when I was almost ready to post, I tried to quote from your text, and lost the whole message. (don't ask :0) Have not had time to respond since, but I will. 

 

ginnie

Buddy Logan wrote:

Ginnie - What's your REAL name - something tells me it would be "Nick".

I know Scott well. The LAST thing he is is a woman beater. Glad to know you are sweating enough to be scanning the Internet looking for stories. You can try to bafoon all you want. You better start thinking about where you can hide!

Scott was transfered to one other prison after Whitby and there was no failure to mention that.

Q: "dude where do you get your information?"  A: Provincial records.

Not out to bash Canada - just crooked jerks like you.  Most of my family are born and raised Canadians. As a matter of fact, most of them live in Ontario.

Noise - I apologize for not responding to your legitimate questions right away. Actually, I did, and, when I was almost ready to post, I tried to quote from your text, and lost the whole message. (don't ask :0) Have not had time to respond since, but I will. 

 

Rexdale_Punjabi Rexdale_Punjabi's picture

fucc the states shitstem cuz wtf is wrong with you holy shit I dont wanna get into this but dam nvm I was gonna say something about going into another view, growing up a dif way, but u know what fucc it... not gonna argue with a slave who loves it

 

dont reply to this gonna cause a thread drift ur misguided beliefs disgust me still str8 up cuz on this case tho the lacc of evidence or cover-up of it looks suspicious

remind remind's picture

ginnie wrote:

I"m sorry if our outdated prison system offends you, trust me, 90 % of us wish so much that we had the same penal system as the states, the three strikes and you're out looks so good to us, instead of take as many lives as you want and you'll only get 25 yrs, does, think about it, but Canada is still on the british penal system. so be it,

It doesn't mean that those of other countries can come in and do what they want,

Actually, these comments of yours are what really offends.

Not only are they inconsistent, they are non-factual, and perhaps racist.

ginnie

removed, not arguing with those who refuse to believe

ginnie

again removed for the same reason as below