Imperialist hands off Libya!

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture
Imperialist hands off Libya!
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[U.K.] [url=http://stopwar.org.uk/content/view/2276/27/]Stop the War Coalition statement on Middle East revolutions[/url] Feb. 25, 2011

Quote:
There must be no US or British intervention in Libya: the future of Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen must be determined by the people of those countries alone.

The uprisings sweeping the Middle East deserve the support of all progressive people. They are directed against autocracies which have denied their people basic rights and the possibility of a decent life.

These autocracies have also, for the most part, depended on the self-interested support of the big powers, the USA and Britain first of all. Western governments have prioritised cheap oil, arms sales and support for Israel's oppression of the Palestinians above the rights of the Arab peoples.

The response of the British government to the events of the last month exemplifies this hypocrisy. David Cameron has prioritised arms sales to the region. And the clamour to intervene in Libya has more to do with control of that country's oil resources than with support for Libya's people.

The Conservative-Liberal Coalition has followed Tony Blair's lead in seeing the Middle East entirely through the prism of the interests of BP and British Aerospace. Any British intervention in the region would be directed to furthering those interests, not the freedom or democracy which can only present a challenge to western domination of the region.

Stop the War Coalition is clear that there must be no US or British intervention in Libya or anywhere else in the Middle East under any pretext whatsoever. Such interference over the last century is the root of the region's troubles, and its continuation will solve none of the difficulties there.

The future of Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen and all the other states facing popular uprisings must be determined by the people of those countries alone. Solidarity with those fighting for their democratic and national freedom is our obligation.

We can best discharge it by demanding that the government at long last takes its hands off the Middle East and its people, leaving them to settle accounts with their own rulers.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Fair enough.  Just so long as they aren't calling on the left to defend Qadaffi.  He was NEVER a real part of the left.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
We shouldn't get complacent about the escalating moves toward imperialist intervention. The main imperialist powers have a stake in taking over Libya's airspace -- an act of war -- and getting "peacekeeper" boots on the ground before the Libyan people force Gadhafi out. And they have an interest in Gadhafi continuing his bloody resistance to keep the "humanitarian" pretext alive until they can get there.

The "no-fly" proposal is an opportunity for the US, Canada and their allies to try to get control of the governmental transition and future Libyan policies by taking over the airspace and, if possible, military bases and oilfields, especially the ones that have fallen into the hands of the rebels.

Then these powers will be in a position to present their own demands to the rebels and protesters. For now, of course, they just strut and swell their chests as saviors of the supposedly helpless Libyans.

And of course Gadhafi is to be kidnapped from Libya and taken to the Hague for trial. Not having the rights of a sovereign nation in the eyes of the US and its allies, the Libyan people have no right to try their own criminals. They must accede to the demand that only the permanent members of the holy Security Council have the moral authority to exercise that power.

The "no-fly zone" would be the first step toward disorganizing, demobilizing, and essentially defeating the Libyan uprising, and a big blow as well to the assertion of self-determination that is taking place in North Africa and the Middle East -- no matter whether or how the imperialist powers choose to deal with Gadhafi, a discredited ruler who is no longer of any use to them.

[url=http://www.marxmail.org/msg88351.html]Fred Feldman[/url]

Unionist

Thanks for this, M. Spector. This perspective is more essential now than ever. I haven't heard Harper's statement this evening, but I can imagine it will be the same drooling for imperial advantage as that of the U.S.

It is not for us, Ken, to support or oppose Ghadafi. Our job is to stay the hands of our own imperialists. In Libya, or Egypt, or Afghanistan. The people of those countries are as capable (actually, from the scenes in the media, far more capable) of dealing with their fates as we are.

 

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

"Libya and the United States share permanent interests: cooperation in the fight against terrorism, trade, nuclear proliferation, Africa, human rights and democracy."

— Condoleeza Rice, 2008.

Fidel

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23375]Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya[/url] wrote:

Quote:
Libya has been in the cross-hairs of the Pentagon for years. According to Wesley Clark, the retired general who was the supreme military commander of NATO, Libya was on a Pentagon list of nations to be invaded after Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. The list included Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Lebanon, Syria, and lastly Iran. In Clark’s own words:

So I came back to see him [a high ranking military officer in the Pentagon] a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, “Are we still going to war with Iraq?” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defence’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.”[18]  (General (retired) Wesley Clark, “92 Street Y Exclusive Live Interview,” interview by Amy Goodman, Democracy Now, March 2, 2007.)

Hands off Libya!

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm listening to Iggy respond to Harper's statement on CTV right now, and he's saying the application of military force ("boots on the ground") can often make things worse rather than better. However, like Harper, he wants the matter of enforcing a no-fly zone in Libya to be explored. Harper supports wide-ranging sanctions, I didn't hear Iggy's response to that - but Iggy criticized the Cons for not getting a seat on the Security Council.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
The United States, for its part, is reviewing billions of dollars in military assistance and weapons sales to countries affected by protests and uprisings in the Middle East.

US defence officials have said that the Obama administration hopes to have proposals ready this summer, Reuters reported on 23 February 2011.

Reuters recalled that Marine Corps General James Cartwright, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had cautioned against hasty action to block all arms sales to the region, arguing that the history of US military aid to Egypt had helped avert a more violent army response to protesters in Tahrir Square in Cairo.

[url=http://www.suite101.com/content/soul-searching-over-western-arms-sales-t...

 

Frmrsldr

The E.U. is as culpable as the U.S. when it comes to propping up Gadhafi with arms sales.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,747440,00.html

sanizadeh

 

Support for the Lybian people and their struggle against mad dictator Gadhaffi should not be mixed with any support for a NATO invasion.

The people of Lybia are the only one to detremine their future, and while the outside world should definitely cut relations with the dictator, an invasion of a sovereign nation by foreign forces is totally unacceptable. Especially considering that the people of Lybia seem to be more than capable to finish off the task by themselves.

Frmrsldr

sanizadeh wrote:

Especially considering that the people of Lybia seem to be more than capable to finish off the task by themselves.

That's for sure. When the people first grappled with pro Gadhafi forces, they only had sticks and stones and their bare hands. The weapons they have now were either given to them by their former foes who sided with them (the Libyan Army) or were wrested from mercenaries and elite troops loyal to Gadhafi who either became casualties, were captured or fled(!)

NDPP

The Narcissism Of The iPad Imperialists Who Want To Invade Libya  - by Brendan Oneill

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100077594/the-narcissis...

"In a modern political sphere that has its fair share of narcissism and ignoramuses, no one is quite as narcissistic or as ignorant as the liberal interventionist. This time they're demanding the invasion of Libya..."

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

"...bohemian bombers, these latte-sipping lieutenants, these iPad imperialists..."

 

I love it!

NDPP

Canada Readying Libya Sanctions: Harper

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/02/25/pol-libya-canada-diplom...

"Our government and the Canadian Forces stand ready to assist, of course,' MacKay told the Conference of Defense Associations annual meeting in Ottawa Friday..."

NDPP

Neo Con Hawks Take Flight Over Libya  - by Jim Lobe

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=54629

"In a distinct echo of the tactics they pursued to encourage US intervention in the Balkans and Iraq, a familiar clutch of neo-conservatives appealed Friday for the US and NATO to 'immediately' prepare military action to help bring down the regime of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

The appeal, which came in the form of a letter signed by 40 policy analysts, including more than a dozen former senior officials who served under President George W Bush, was organised and released by the Foreign Policy Initiative (FPI), a 2 year old neo-conservative group that is widely seen as the successor to the more famous - or infamous - Project For The New American Century (PNAC), warning that Libya stood 'on the threshold of a moral and humanitarian catastrophe'.

The letter, which was addressed to President Barack Obama, called for specific immediate steps involving military action..."

Deposed Monarchy in Libya Calls For Imperialist Intervention

http://panafricannews.blogspot.com/2011/02/deposed-monarchy-in-libya-cal...

"Libya's 'Crown Prince' speaks out. Muhammad al-Senussi asks the international community to help remove Gaddafi from power. Libya was a monarchy until Muammar Gaddafi took power in a military coup in 1969..

DaveW

 from www.nytimes.com:

 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/26/world/middleeast/26diplomacy.html?ref=global-home

 

In Geneva, the normally passive United Nations Human Rights Council voted unanimously on Friday to suspend Libya's membership, but not before a junior delegate of the Libyan mission announced that he and his colleagues had resigned after deciding to side with the Libyan people. The gesture drew a standing ovation and a handshake from the United States ambassador, Eileen Donahoe

 

 

NDPP

Woman in Tripoli: 'We Are Afraid. Every House Is Only Armed with Knives. I Have Daughters Here

http://alive.in/libya/2011/02/26/woman-in-tripoli-we-are-afraid-every-ho...

"We are not afraid of death..we die or we'll be free. But please, we think the international people just gather, wait, have meetings. Please if there's anything you can do to help, please do it now."

So far nothing of immediate help to Libyans. The halting of planeloads of African mercenaries to Tripoli, hired by the beleagured regime to kill protesters, is just one obvious and urgent action which could and should be taken.

NDPP

US and Europe Step Up Preparations For Intervention in Libya  - by Patrick O'Connor

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/lead-f26.shtml

"An emergency NATO meeting was held in Brussels yesterday afternoon. A subsequent statement said NATO would 'continue to consult in order to be prepared for any eventuality'. The DEBKAfile website, associated with Israeli military intelligence, claims that 'hundreds of US, British and French military advisers, including intelligence officers, were dropped from warships and missile boats.."

Libya Protesters at Tripoli's Gates

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167217.html

"thousands of opposition protesters seeking the ouster of the Gaddafi regime move toward the capital, Tripoli.."

"War Uber Alles:' The Pentagon Needs Some More Wars  - by Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts294.html

"With Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi's regime falling to a rebelling population, CNN reports that a Pentagon spokesman said that the US is looking at all options from the military side.."

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm watching a movie on Spike TV, and just saw a commercial - "America's Navy - A Global Force For Good".

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

when they're dead they'll be good. Good and d**d.

MegB

I was just watching BBC World, and they did a piece on Libya that centred around a village that defended themselves against Ghadaffi's hired mercenaries, and won.  The Beeb called them "African mercenaries", which could mean anything from Int'l security agencies to African nationals, former rebels from Sierra Leone, Sudan, etc.

Either way, if the story's true, it's an awesome example of ordinary people, defending their homes and families against huge odds, against gov't-hired, highly trained, well-armed psychopaths.

 

NDPP

Ex-Minister Forms Interim Government in Libya

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167237.html

"Libya's former Justice minister has formed an interim government as several cities are currently under the control of pro-democracy demonstrators...Mustafa Mohamed Abdel-Jalil formed the government in the eastern city of Bengazi on Saturday.."

Libya-Canada Diplomatic Relations Halted

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/02/26/libya.html

"C-17 flies Canadian, Australian diplomatic staff out of Tripoli.."

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
[Derrick] O'Keefe said [the Canadian Peace Alliance] will be speaking out against the potential for western military intervention in Libya.

"In the last 24 hours especially, there has started to be talk of a sort of western military intervention, or perhaps NATO intervening in Libya, and the Canadian Peace Alliance just wanted to make clear that we would strongly warn against...any kind of NATO military intervention," he said.

[url=http://www.straight.com/article-376924/vancouver/vancouver-demonstration...

al-Qa'bong

NDPP wrote:

Canada Readying Libya Sanctions: Harper

Yeah, the government led by the same Stevie-boy who was the first on the planet to invoke sanctions against the democratically-elected government of Gaza, and whose absence of sanctions agianst the governments of Bahrain, Jordan, Egypt, and Yemen show that he isn't terribly concerned about democracy at all.

NDPP

And here's another one much the same...pushing that old interventionary imperialist snake oil R2P

The Urgent Need for R2P - by Irwin Cotler

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/urgent+need/4351384/story.html

"Accordingly, Canada as an original architect of the R2P Doctrine, should join the international community in undertaking the following..."

 

NDPP

African Mercenaries In Libya: Fact or Racism?

http://www.afrol.com/articles/37443

"...Another source forcefully denying the existence of sub-Saharan mercenaries in Libya is the Foreign Affairs Ministry of Chad. 'Chadians are not recruited in Chad to serve as mercenaries in Libya,' the Ministry statement said...Meanwhile, reports from Western journalists now present in Al-Bayda and Benghazi indicate that the stories about captured sub-Saharan 'mercenaries' may be exaggerated or even false.."

NDPP

Gaddafi's 'Voluptuous' Nurse Going Home?

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Gaddafis-voluptuous-nurse-going-home-20...

"The woman's daughter, Tatyana told Ukraine's Segodnya daily that her mother has been shocked by the violence raging in Libya and is planning to return to her suburban Kiev residence. 'There is shooting, fighting and everything else they show on television. She spoke in a calm voice, asked us not to worry, and said she will be home soon.' Of the rumoured staff of 4 Ukrainian nurses that cater to the leader's health and well being, XXX emphasized that [Gaddafi] cannot travel without Kolotnytska, as she alone knew his routine.."

If staff this close are now being sent away, it could mean the end is near.

Sean in Ottawa

My opposition to the boots on the ground idea for Libya is not philosophical. I accept the concept that outsiders can help in some situations and that there are good arguments for intervention at times. I am not a fan of a knee-jerk "prime directive" type position.

My opposition is practical. and specific.

--There are no countries with the means that are credible.

--There is no mechanism to ensure that the intervenors would not be invaders who would make off with Libyan oil

--There is no source of information we can trust to inform the outside world about what is happening and there is so much propaganda we could never get at the truth of any of this.

--Outside security forces are not built to accept to provide security for civilians while recognizing the self determination of the country in every other respect

While I can imagine some situations where a UN force could provide help, unfortunately there is no such thing as a real UN force reporting to the UN.

So even with people inside the country asking for help I can't see any trustworthy mechanism to provide it where the situation would not more likely be made worse.

In light of all this-- I can hope that Libya will be able to sort itself out without intervention.

One kind of intervention that the West can provide is once the dust settles taking some direction with respect to Libyan assets-- freezing outgoing leader's assets and turning them over to the authorities of the country does seem like a fair thing that can be done once authority is established. Another would be to ready and offer humanitarian aid (medical supplies etc.) once that could be used if required. At this point I think this is the extent of what can be offered beyond the very useful assurances and commitment not to intervene.

NDPP

'Situation in Libya Alarming' :Panel Discussion (and vid)

http://www.presstv.com/detail/167108.html

"Libya and the Libyans must remember that it is a very rich country. Libya has a lot of oil. It's the third largest exporter of oil worldwide, so one must keep that in mind. And the West --the European Union, the United States, NATO - everyone wants to have a share in Libyan oil. SO they are going to try to benefit from this situation to control the country..."

Interim Libya Government Wins Support (and vid)

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122702915408866.html

"Caretaker administration', led by former justice minister gets the endorsement of the Libyan envoys to the UN and US. Ali Aujali, Libya's ambassador to the United States, has said that he supports the interim government being formed in Benghazi by the country's former minister of justice. Aujali said on Saturday the caretaker administration which announced it would lead the country for 3 months to prepare for elections was 'the government for the whole of Libya..'

has Libya found its Suleiman?

Fidel

I love al jazeera. It's based in Qatar, a country ruled by an absolute monarchy! Yell

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/reyes250211.html]Cuba's ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council on the situation in Libya[/url] (excerpt)
25 February 2011

Quote:
All of us are concerned about the losses of human lives and injuries suffered by the civilian population, inflicted by the conflict that is unfolding in Libya today. No one with integrity can accept the killing of innocent civilians, which we condemn categorically anywhere it happens. In this regard we entirely share the world opinion.

However, we cannot accept the risk that this tragic situation may be exploited opportunistically to satisfy the interventionist appetites, to rob the Libyan people of their sovereignty, and to seize their resources. Already there is talk of a humanitarian military intervention, which we oppose, because, instead of solving the problem, it will complicate it much more and can have other serious implications. From the beginning, Cuba has denounced the plans to occupy Libya and categorically rejects any maneuver to promote such ideas. It is certain that the Libyan people are opposed to any foreign military intervention.

 

NDPP

Fidel wrote:

I love al jazeera. It's based in Qatar, a country ruled by an absolute monarchy! Yell

NDPP

I've been given a free try of it on my cable package and it is so vastly superior that I can scarcely believe how bad CBC is by comparison. More provocative, more interesting news programs and less commercials. I'll be keeping it no question. Ironically, a Somali friend, says AJ English is terribly bland as compared to AJ Arabic which is better still..

NDPP

Libya Opposition Literally Running Protests From Washington

http://empirestrikesblack.com/2011/02/libya-the-rest-of-the-story/

"Again we are told the protests are spontaneous, inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian uprisings. Again we are told it is the youth yearning for freedom and 'democracy'. But when we look behind the curtain, we see yet another old man from Washington pulling the levers, blowing the smoke and flashing the lights.."

Geoff OB

NDPP wrote:

Libya Opposition Literally Running Protests From Washington

http://empirestrikesblack.com/2011/02/libya-the-rest-of-the-story/

"Again we are told the protests are spontaneous, inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian uprisings. Again we are told it is the youth yearning for freedom and 'democracy'. But when we look behind the curtain, we see yet another old man from Washington pulling the levers, blowing the smoke and flashing the lights.."

This quote from the empirestrikesblack website serves its purpose, I suppose, but I'm not sure why it should be accepted uncritically.  I know the old adage, "My enemy's enemy is my friend," gives some folks comfort, but I'm not convinced it's a universal truth to be applied in every situation. 

 

NDPP

I agree - but neither are 'truths' of 'theirs'. Seemed worthy of posting nonetheless..

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Well, yea. We may find out that the US regime is helping both sides (while speaking out of the side of its imperial mouth) in order to stoke the flames of the bloodshed, make money selling arms to all, and appropriate the oil wealth of the Libyan people if they are able. There were plenty of US and British provocateurs in Iraq inciting fratricidal Shi-ite / Sunni conflict after the 2003 invasion and occupation of that country.

mimeguy

 

I would agree with Sean from Ottawa who expresses it well.

So just who is the 'international community' that people keep harping on and whose military are they talking about?  Even if Libya qualifies for R2P intervention who in the 'international community' can invade Libya under U.N. R2P sanction and occupy it long enough for a stable, democratic, human rights enforcing government to take hold?

 

R2P is ONLY a philosophy.  Calling for a philosophy to intervene doesn't make sense.  There has never been an R2P strategy plan put in place by the U.N. or any of the countries that helped develop it.  As long as the Security Council remains dominated by the same countries then R2P is doomed to either complete failure or grotesque manipulation that only serves to deepen conflict rather than prevent it and facilitate real peace and democratic freedom.

Paul Martin and a host of others like him are arguing for a mythical international community to react to atrocity with mythical speed and coordination from a military that doesn't exist. 

Why should anyone participate in this facade and what on earth would it accomplish for the Libyan people or any other oppressed nation? 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

The whole thing is a scripted rush to judgement, enlistment of useful liberal idiots, humanitarian imperialism, and all the rest of the recent tools of Western "civilization".

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

NDPP wrote:

Libya Opposition Literally Running Protests From Washington

http://empirestrikesblack.com/2011/02/libya-the-rest-of-the-story/

"Again we are told the protests are spontaneous, inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian uprisings. Again we are told it is the youth yearning for freedom and 'democracy'. But when we look behind the curtain, we see yet another old man from Washington pulling the levers, blowing the smoke and flashing the lights.."

This ridiculous website you quote from wants us to believe that the CIA is behind the uprisings in the Arab world. It is essentially running interference for Ghadaffi, Mubarak, and the other despots who are the targets of widespread popular revolt.

I'd be more inclidned to believe the CIA was behind the website itself. 

 

al-Qa'bong

...and in related news...

 

Israeli Airstrikes on Gaza Wound Man and Baby

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'm getting AJ English from Bell ExpressVu on a trial basis - but it doesn't have closed captioning, so I usually don't go there much. Frown

NDPP

Who Is Calling For American Intervention in Libya

http://www.maxajl.com/?p=5004

"Of the many reasons for intervention in Kosovo, one of them was to further embed in Western political culture the R2P - the Responsibility to Protectr - to justify future interventions, a bit of ideological spadework that laid the ground for the US aggression into Iraq and Afghanistan.

It takes liberals to initially mouth these murderous bromides and then they can provide ideological cover for the 'conservatives' to undertake nearly identical policies when the latter are in power. Self-interested violent intervention under the cover of helping the natives is not merely the history of [Canada and] the American empire, but the history of every empire..."

In Canada, this 'murderous bromide' R2P, an Axworthy project, was top of the lib-left hit parade. I remember it being flogged incessantly by NDP, Greens and other do-gooder groups. How ironic, or maybe not, that it should be Dallaire, one of the participants in the US regime change operation in Rwanda, pushing R2P now for Libya.

NDPP

 Libya In The Great Game  - On the Road to the New Partition of Africa  -  by Manlio Danucci (Il Manifesto)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23413

"The message is clear: there is the possibility of a US/NATO military intervention in Libya, formally to stop the bloodshed. The real reasons are also clear: if Gadhafi is overthrown, the US would be able to topple the entire framework of economic relations with Libya and open the way to US based multinationals, so far almost entirely excluded from exploitation of energy reserves in Libya.

The United States could thus control the tap for energy sources upon which Europe largely depends and which also supplies China. These are the events in the great game of the division of African resources, for which a growing confrontation, especially between China and the United States is taking place.."

 

Fidel

The NDP also said that there was a duty to protect Palestinians during Israeli military attack on Gaza. They also condemned Israeli attacks on the peace flotilla carrying aid to desperate Palestinians last year.

The fourth political party and effective opposition in Ottawa will not change Ottawa's various colonial administrative policies for toadying to the fascist empire without more seats in Parliament.

 

Frmrsldr

N.Beltov wrote:

Well, yea. We may find out that the US regime is helping both sides (while speaking out of the side of its imperial mouth) in order to stoke the flames of the bloodshed, make money selling arms to all, and appropriate the oil wealth of the Libyan people if they are able. There were plenty of US and British provocateurs in Iraq inciting fratricidal Shi-ite / Sunni conflict after the 2003 invasion and occupation of that country.

Sure, but Saddam Hussein wanted to nationalize Iraq's oilfields. The shift from Iraq War I to Iraq War II witnessed the shift from the U.S.A. buying inexpensive and secure oil from Iraq to occupying Iraq and taking Iraq's oil. Which was foolish because the war and subsequent rise in the global price of oil cost the U.S. economy a lot more than when Saddam was an ally of or "contained" by the U.S.A.

Since 2003, Mr. Gadhafi was complying with every wish of the U.S. government. He opened Libyan oilfields to Western oil companies. He allowed the IMF to do the "requisite" restructuring of the Libyan economy. Over the past decade Mr. Gadhafi bought large amounts of arms and military weapons from the U.S. and E.U.

Although fueled by decades of oppression, when the protests erupted, they were spontaneous and caught both Gadhafi and the U.S. government by surprise.

Reason? Uncle Sam's attention is too absorbed by Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, North Korea, Iran and to a lesser extent, Yemen and Somalia.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Sorry, Fidel. I missed the part where the NDP called for military intervention to overthrow the repressive Israeli regime. You know - like they are joining the chorus of useful idiots on an invasion of Libya by the NATO military axis. Maybe you could provide me with a link?

lol.

Frmrsldr

mimeguy wrote:

 

I would agree with Sean from Ottawa who expresses it well.

So just who is the 'international community' that people keep harping on and whose military are they talking about?  Even if Libya qualifies for R2P intervention who in the 'international community' can invade Libya under U.N. R2P sanction and occupy it long enough for a stable, democratic, human rights enforcing government to take hold?

 

R2P is ONLY a philosophy.  Calling for a philosophy to intervene doesn't make sense.  There has never been an R2P strategy plan put in place by the U.N. or any of the countries that helped develop it.  As long as the Security Council remains dominated by the same countries then R2P is doomed to either complete failure or grotesque manipulation that only serves to deepen conflict rather than prevent it and facilitate real peace and democratic freedom.

Paul Martin and a host of others like him are arguing for a mythical international community to react to atrocity with mythical speed and coordination from a military that doesn't exist. 

Why should anyone participate in this facade and what on earth would it accomplish for the Libyan people or any other oppressed nation? [Bolding added]

Absolutely nothing. How the Libyans decide to govern themselves is no one's business but the Libyans'. We have no damn business (or right) sticking our nose and dirty little fingers into their affairs.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Good summary. Yea, I agree that the Empire is stretched thin, Frmrsldr. But the toppling of an unpopular regime has more to do with the wishes of the domestic citizenry/population and their unwillingness to put up with it any longer than with the ability of the Empire to "hold on".

These elites - sometimes called comprador - who sell out their own populations failed quite remarkably in Latin America before being replaced by more enlightened politicians as in Bolivia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and so on. I just think this other side should be appropriately emphasized.

The events in Egypt were probably an inspiration as well. As goes Egypt, so does the Arab world. So goes a famous saying.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Good try Squire, but Sir Jack and the knights who say "Dipper" take a thumping from the socialst dragons on that one.

Fidel

I don't see where the NDP is demanding either the bombing and invasion of Libya. And I don't think the NDP is siding with anyone in Israel either.

No need to worry, Spector and Beltov, your two-party colonial administrativeship in Ottawa is in no danger of being usurped by the fourth party. At least not yet. Our long-running stoogeaucracy in Ottawa will continue on with the kow-towing, snivelling and grovelling to US power as per usual.

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