Imperialist hands off Libya!

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Fidel

We've got to be careful with the fourth party in Ottawa. They could upset the balance of stoogery happenin' between Reformatory and Liebrals, or something. We can always tell when there's an election in the air.

Frmrsldr

N.Beltov wrote:

Good summary. Yea, I agree that the Empire is stretched thin, Frmrsldr. But the toppling of an unpopular regime has more to do with the wishes of the domestic citizenry/population and their unwillingness to put up with it any longer than with the ability of the Empire to "hold on".

These elites - sometimes called comprador - who sell out their own populations failed quite remarkably in Latin America before being replaced by more enlightened politicians as in Bolivia, Venezuela, Ecuador, and so on. I just think this other side should be appropriately emphasized.

From what I can tell, the division in Libya is between Mr. Gadhafi (and his family, tribe and some allied tribes) and elite guards units (the compradors) and the human bloodsucking mercenaries (the petit bourgeoisie) loyal to him versus the people and (largely) the Libyan Army (the workers.)

Progressives might find how the people are running the Benghazi government interesting as well as inspiring.

NDPP

It's looking to me like there's some 'big noses and dirty little fingers' already in this game, and so far the main opposiiton go-to guy is a minister from the regime - Libya's Suleiman? I think what we're seeing is the 'Great game' as correctly characterized by Danucci in #43. The Libyan people, like the Tunisians, Egyptians, Yemenis etc. will have to fight for the gains of their revolution against the same vampirical forces that either installed or happily did business with the former regimes

US Ready to Help Libya

http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/496042/us_ready_to_help_libya's_insurgents/

"Two senior US lawmakers urged Washington to recognize any transitional government and supply it with weapons and humanitarian assistance to oust Kadhafi...'We ought to recognize the provisional government as the legitimate government of Libya and we ought to give them the wherewithall to fight on behalf of the people of Libya..' Senator Joe Lieberman told CNN."

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Libya Opposition Literally Running Protests From Washington

http://empirestrikesblack.com/2011/02/libya-the-rest-of-the-story/

"Again we are told the protests are spontaneous, inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian uprisings. Again we are told it is the youth yearning for freedom and 'democracy'. But when we look behind the curtain, we see yet another old man from Washington pulling the levers, blowing the smoke and flashing the lights.."

This ridiculous website you quote from wants us to believe that the CIA is behind the uprisings in the Arab world. It is essentially running interference for Ghadaffi, Mubarak, and the other despots who are the targets of widespread popular revolt.

I'd be more inclidned to believe the CIA was behind the website itself.

Google "National Front for the Salvation of Libya" and CIA. It'll return dozens of CIA hits.

Apparently the veritas gang have their finger prints all over NFSL for a long time. I think it ridiculous not to expect them to be instigating and fomenting civil war in Libya. When have Coups R US not been involved in overthrowing foreign governments and intervening militarily whenever the loaded die happen not to fall where they lie?

Frmrsldr

NDPP wrote:

It's looking to me like there's some 'big noses and dirty little fingers' already in this game, and so far the main opposiiton go-to guy is a minister from the regime - Libya's Suleiman? I think what we're seeing is the 'Great game' as correctly characterized by Danucci in #43. The Libyan people, like the Tunisians, Egyptians, Yemenis etc. will have to fight for the gains of their revolution against the same vampirical forces that either installed or happily did business with the former regimes

US Ready to Help Libya

http://www.alternet.org/rss/breaking_news/496042/us_ready_to_help_libya's_insurgents/

"Two senior US lawmakers urged Washington to recognize any transitional government and supply it with weapons and humanitarian assistance to oust Kadhafi...'We ought to recognize the provisional government as the legitimate government of Libya and we ought to give them the wherewithall to fight on behalf of the people of Libya..' Senator Joe Lieberman told CNN."

At first the American Empire was caught off guard. Now that it has had time to assess the situation and to plan its future moves, providing assistance by arming the people and their Libyan Army allies is a win-win situation.

Consider it a prudent investment that may provide dividends in the future.FrownFrownMoney mouthFrownFrown

Frmrsldr

This puts into words my thoughts:

Jason Ditz wrote:

Gadhafi only really holds the central part of Tripoli at this point, and that is only on the basis of his mercenary forces. It seems the people are preparing for their last push in this last bastion of regime power, and one hopes that by the time the Obama Administration et al have decided to move against Gadhafi he'll already be gone.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/27/libyan-opposition-spurns-calls-for-fo...

On the other hand, the following confirms our worst fears:

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/27/us-measure-ensures-gadhafi-mercs-immu...

howeird beale

The anti-war article is interesting, but, just to play devil's advocate, if one is trying to build a framework for international law, prosecuting people from countries who are not signatories to that law can weaken the development of that body of law and the ICC.

That being said it'd be nice for the US to join but dont hold your breath

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Why not try holding yours?

 

[url=http://www.juancole.com/2011/02/the-world-oil-politics-of-the-libyan-rev... Cole[/url] says:

Quote:
Some 80% Libya's developed petroleum fields are in rebel-held territory, and the Benghazi leadership is making plans to pump the oil and receive the proceeds. If the standoff with Qaddafi goes on very long, the oil politics could prove decisive. With Qaddafi's own foreign funds increasingly frozen, and 3/4s of the country's oil facilities idled (it ordinarily exports 1.7 million barrels a day), his cash on hand to pay mercenaries and bribe clients will rapidly decline, whereas the Benghazi rebels may reap a windfall. Reports about the situation at the oil fields are chaotic and contradictory, but it seems clear that some oil workers are pumping the oil themselves as expatriate companies flee, and it is possible that the Benghazi leadership could export by tanker truck despite the closing of the Italian pipeline.

The oil politics could also provoke NATO or other intervention.

The last thing the U.S. wants is for the rebels to gain and keep control of the oilfields. The number one priority of any invasion, no-fly-zone, or other hostile aggression will be to "secure" the oil for imperialist interests, regardless of what happens to Qaddafi.

Snert Snert's picture
NDPP

Protesters Tighten Siege on Gaddafi

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167492.html

"Thousands of pro-democracy protesters are closing in on the capital Tripoli where Libya's dictator Muammar Gaddafi is holed up.."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

M. Spector wrote:

The last thing the U.S. wants is for the rebels to gain and keep control of the oilfields. The number one priority of any invasion, no-fly-zone, or other hostile aggression will be to "secure" the oil for imperialist interests, regardless of what happens to Qaddafi.

Yeah but shouldn't that be Europe more than the USA worrying about Libyan oil? The USA doesn't get much oil at all from Libya... Let them work out their own problems, we have our own to worry about.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Quote:

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum in December, exporting 2,713 thousand barrels per day to the United States, which is an increase from last month (2,510 thousand barrels per day). The second largest exporter of total petroleum was Mexico with 1,365 thousand barrels per day.

That and isn't this is all based on speculation and potential conspiracy for now? The people of Lybia still have to get rid of Qaddafi.

NDPP

As Libyan Rebels Close In On Gaddafi, US, Europe Ramp Up Intervention  -  by Barry Grey

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/feb2011/liby-f28.shtml

"With dictator Muammar Gaddafi's control over the country ebbing, the United States and its European allies are stepping up their intervention into the Libyan crisis. Their aim is to ensure that any new regime will be equally subservient in their economic and geostrategic  interests.

The NY Times on Saturday quoted Tom Malinkowski, the director of the Washington office of Human Rights Watch as saying, 'Even if people aren't especially talking about a no-fly zone, the fact that NATO met today suggests there is more on people's minds than diplomacy. I sense military contingencies are on the table..'"

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Yeah but shouldn't that be Europe more than the USA worrying about Libyan oil? The USA doesn't get much oil at all from Libya... Let them work out their own problems, we have our own to worry about.

The problems of Europe are not so easily separated from the problems of America as you seem to think.

If Libyan rebels oust Qadafi and start diverting oil from European markets to - oh, I don't know - China or Cuba, do you think that's a matter of indifference to the USA? Especially since the Europeans would then be looking to the big suppliers of US oil to make up their shortfall?

The fact of the matter is that western imperialism speaks with one voice and acts in consensus with Washington/NATO. If you bothered to read the Juan Cole column I linked to, you would understand that the loss of Libyan oil to western imperialists would push world oil prices so high that it would trigger another recession.

This is no time for the US imperialists to get all isolationist.   

al-Qa'bong

The nauseous hypocrisy of the Harper government continues...

Canada condemns Libya-Harper gov't imposes sanctions, protests crackdown by Gadhafi regime

Quote:
Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced Sunday that Canada will impose sanctions to penalize Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's regime for his brutal repression of protesters in that country.

 

Quote:
Now, of course, every Arab has noticed the Western reactions to Qadhdhafi's crimes against Libyans. It is likely that Israeli in the Lebanon war in 2006 or the Gaza assault in 2008 have killed much more than Qadhdhahfi has killed. Yet, Western governments move (along with the subservient UN) to protect the Israeli killers and to cover up their crimes.

Angry Arab

Fidel

That's true. And another thing, the Brits, for example, were said to be more ruthless with Iranian oil than even the Americans in their blood for oil wars of the last 50 years. Apparently the Brits didn't think they had to share any of the profits from Iranian oil with actual Iranians in Iran proper. Blood for oil has been happening for a long time. Greed is a large part of it, and so is the new energy pipeline geopolitics in this new colder war era. Canada sold off our energy pipelines to US corporatocracy decades ago after Canadian taxpayers footed most of the bills for construction.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Fidel wrote:

The NDP also said that there was a duty to protect Palestinians during Israeli military attack on Gaza. They also condemned Israeli attacks on the peace flotilla carrying aid to desperate Palestinians last year.

This is not only completely off topic, but false as well. Jack Layton "condemned" nothing (other than himself to political irrelevance) when he issued [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-leader-jack-layton-on-... statement[/url]:

Quote:
We were shocked and deeply saddened by the unacceptable loss of life and injuries sustained as a result of the raid by Israeli forces against a flotilla of ships bringing aid to Gaza.

I join international leaders in calling for an urgent and independent investigation into this terrible incident that jeopardizes the pursuit of peace in the region.

I call on Prime Minister Harper to immediately lend Canada's voice to the rapidly growing call for this inquiry.

This violence further underlines the urgent need for a negotiated peace and a resolution to the crisis in Gaza, including an end to the blockade. New Democrats urge the Canadian government to work with the international community to find an end to loss of life of innocent civilians in this region. We recognize the right of both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peaceful co-existence in viable, independent states with negotiated, agreed-upon borders.

And in the House of Commons [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g3TjabXFlM]he really blasted the hell out of the Israelis[/url] (NOT).

As for a "duty to protect Palestinians during Israeli military attack on Gaza", you won't find any such position in [url=http://www.ndp.ca/press/statement-by-new-democrat-leader-jack-layton-on-...'s actual statement.[/url]

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
Now, of course, every Arab has noticed the Western reactions to Qadhdhafi's crimes against Libyans. It is likely that Israeli in the Lebanon war in 2006 or the Gaza assault in 2008 have killed much more than Qadhdhahfi has killed. Yet, Western governments move (along with the subservient UN) to protect the Israeli killers and to cover up their crimes.

 

One expects certain violence from enemies that one doesn't expect from one's own government.

 

I'm sure that if Stephen Harper turned the Canadian military on G20 protesters, and killed a few hundred, it would be cold comfort to remember that many more than that died in the Korean conflict. Just to recap:

 

Your enemies: might shoot you.

Your government: shouldn't shoot you.

 

World leaders might want to print that out and tape it to the fridge.

al-Qa'bong

That has to be the most cogent argument for mass murder that I've ever read on babble.

 

Nicely done.

Snert Snert's picture

Say huh?

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

M. Spector wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Yeah but shouldn't that be Europe more than the USA worrying about Libyan oil? The USA doesn't get much oil at all from Libya... Let them work out their own problems, we have our own to worry about.

The problems of Europe are not so easily separated from the problems of America as you seem to think.

 Well this is one US citizen who thinks otherwise... and as hard as it might be for  you to believe (being so ravenous USA hater and all) I'm not alone. We are not going and occupying Libya for anybody... No US forces in Libya. I will take time off from work and go to Washington for that one...

Quote:

If Libyan rebels oust Qadafi and start diverting oil from European markets to - oh, I don't know - China or Cuba, do you think that's a matter of indifference to the USA? Especially since the Europeans would then be looking to the big suppliers of US oil to make up their shortfall?

So exactly what makes you think they'll sell it to China or Cuba instead of who they've always been selling it to? They sell it at market price right? They will probably sell it on the market to the highest bidder once Kaddafi is gone as well. They are smart business people, why should they not sell to Europe? Becouse you don't want them too? HA, I know you want to disrupt the flow of oil to the west and cause anarchy, you seem to thieve on that though, well good for you but just because you want it doesn't mean it's going to happen.  

 

Quote:

 The fact of the matter is that western imperialism speaks with one voice and acts in consensus with Washington/NATO. If you bothered to read the Juan Cole column I linked to, you would understand that the loss of Libyan oil to western imperialists would push world oil prices so high that it would trigger another recession.

This is no time for the US imperialists to get all isolationist.   

I read it, thanks... I'm not saying that couldn't happen but again it's all based on speculation. Kaddafi has to go first then we'll see where Libya goes from there. I'm all for leaving them alone, they'll figure out the best way to make money off their oil. My guess it will be with that HUGE market right across the at sea: Europe. The logistics for the other two is WAY more expensive.

I'm optimistic, you're a pessimist. Time will tell who's right (not that it really matters).

NDPP

Fidel wrote:

That's true. And another thing, the Brits, for example, were said to be more ruthless with Iranian oil than even the Americans in their blood for oil wars of the last 50 years. Apparently the Brits didn't think they had to share any of the profits from Iranian oil with actual Iranians in Iran proper. Blood for oil has been happening for a long time. Greed is a large part of it, and so is the new energy pipeline geopolitics in this new colder war era. Canada sold off our energy pipelines to US corporatocracy decades ago after Canadian taxpayers footed most of the bills for construction.

NDPP

"our energy" was of course, not "ours" at all, but stolen after our own invasion, occupation and genocide of the Indigenous owners - funny how we always forget that bit isn't it..?. as for the various jiggery pokery between rival or neighbouring anglo-american colonizer pirates - sure whatever...

wage zombie

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Well this is one US citizen who thinks otherwise... and as hard as it might be for  you to believe (being so ravenous USA hater and all) I'm not alone. We are not going and occupying Libya for anybody... No US forces in Libya. I will take time off from work and go to Washington for that one...

Maybe you should have done that 8 years ago.

NDPP

'My People Love Me': Christiane Amanpour Interviews Moammar Gadhafi (and vid)

http://abcnews.go.com/International/christiane-amanpour-interviews-libya...

"I'm surprised that we have an alliance with the West to fight al Qaeda, and now that we are fighting terrorists, they have abandoned us. Perhaps they want to occupy Libya?"

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/exclusive-interview-gadhafis-sons-1...

Saif-al-Islam and Saadi Gadhafi Interviews

 

al-Qa'bong

wage zombie wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Well this is one US citizen who thinks otherwise... and as hard as it might be for  you to believe (being so ravenous USA hater and all) I'm not alone. We are not going and occupying Libya for anybody... No US forces in Libya. I will take time off from work and go to Washington for that one...

Maybe you should have done that 8 years ago.

The killing of Iraqis started long before that.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

I'm optimistic, you're a pessimist. Time will tell who's right (not that it really matters).

Wrong again.

You're optimistic that everything will work out fine for U.S. imperialism. I'm optimistic that it won't.

And it does really matter.

Fidel

NDPP wrote:

Fidel wrote:

That's true. And another thing, the Brits, for example, were said to be more ruthless with Iranian oil than even the Americans in their blood for oil wars of the last 50 years. Apparently the Brits didn't think they had to share any of the profits from Iranian oil with actual Iranians in Iran proper. Blood for oil has been happening for a long time. Greed is a large part of it, and so is the new energy pipeline geopolitics in this new colder war era. Canada sold off our energy pipelines to US corporatocracy decades ago after Canadian taxpayers footed most of the bills for construction.

NDPP

"our energy" was of course, not "ours" at all, but stolen after our own invasion, occupation and genocide of the Indigenous owners - funny how we always forget that bit isn't it..?. as for the various jiggery pokery between rival or neighbouring anglo-american colonizer pirates - sure whatever...

And now we can't even hand it back to those "we" stole it from. Why? Because our bought and paid-for stooges are paying corporate America and supranationals to take it off their hands. Their hands, as in not our's for a long time since federal Liberals and Tories sold the environment to Exxon-Imperial and the fossil fuel industry decades ago.

 

NDPP

Canada killed Iraqis too of course:

http://www.canesi.org/Engl/canadianpolicy.html

and they haven't forgotten, even though it sure seems we have:

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=179025415465838&topic=812

get my drift

howeird beale

Dont take it too personally, Bec. He calls someone an imperialist about every twenty posts. He doesnt really have a surfeit of ideas. Sorta goes with the research free links to speculative screeds.

Fidel wrote:

Our bought and paid-for stooges are paying corporate America and supranationals to take it off their hands. Their hands, as in not our's for a long time since federal Liberals and Tories sold the environment to Exxon-Imperial and the fossil fuel industry decades ago.

I tried suggesting if the NDP wants to get Canadians excited about them again, maybe they should put things like nationalization back on the table. Most of the posters here freaked out like I was suggesting public puppy murder.

NDPP

Canadian Firms Can Stay In Libya: Baird - Canadian Companies Must Make Financial Transactions With Libya, Central Bank

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/02/28/pol-baird-libya-sanctio...

"Strict financial sanctions against Libya won't stop Canadian companies from operating in the country, government house leader John Baird says. 'This doesn't eliminate commercial activities..'.'

Baird says the government has been in touch with Canadian engineering company SNC Lavalin, which operates in the country, to explain the changes. 'They can operate there, they can operate commercially. What they can't do is operate financially with either the Libyan government or the Central Bank of Libya,' he said. Calgary based Suncor which is involved in Libya's oilfields said in a statement Monday it was also awaiting further details."

of course the CBC slapheads' idiotic, mistaken subtitling makes a nonsense of the article, which is pretty dodgy as it is..

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

NDPP posted this link in another thread, but it really belongs here:

[url=http://news.antiwar.com/2011/02/27/libyan-opposition-spurns-calls-for-fo... opposition spurns calls for foreign "help"[/url]

Quote:
Hafiz Ghoga, a spokesman for the protesters' new National Libyan Council, insisted that calls for foreign intervention were entirely unwelcome, adding that the protesters have taken most of the nation and "the rest of Libya will be liberated by the people."

Indeed, despite people raising the prospect of international intervention against the Gadhafi regime, the newly formed pro-protester military say that they haven't even deployed in Gadhafi's last city of Tripoli because the protesters there insist they don't need help.

 

Unionist

In a democracy like Canada, the government doesn't (usually) shoot its own people.

It mostly shoots people in other countries.

Because they aren't potential voters.

And we're a democracy.

Oh, I already mentioned that.

 

 

NDPP

maybe they already have some...help

US, France, Britain Set Up Bases in Libya

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167578.html

"Britain, France and the United States have dispatched hundreds of military advisors to Libya to set up military bases in the country's oil-rich east, reports say. Several Libyan diplomats have been quoted by news outlets as saying these forces are setting up bases in the eastern cities of Benghazi and Tobruk - the two oil rich cities that have been liberated by the opposition forces. British and US special forces entered Libyan port cities Benghazi and Tobruk on February 23 and 24. Earlier on Monday, the US military confirmed it has deployed naval and air forces around Libya.."

Libya's Opposition Resumes Oil Exports

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167563.html

"Libya's opposition says that it has resumed oil exports suspended by the revolution in the country, noting that a tanker has been loaded with one million barrels of crude for China.."

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Yeah but shouldn't that be Europe more than the USA worrying about Libyan oil? The USA doesn't get much oil at all from Libya... Let them work out their own problems, we have our own to worry about.

Dude, what do you think the Iraq war was all about?

Fidel

howeird beale wrote:

Dont take it too personally, Bec. He calls someone an imperialist about every twenty posts. He doesnt really have a surfeit of ideas. Sorta goes with the research free links to speculative screeds.

Fidel wrote:

Our bought and paid-for stooges are paying corporate America and supranationals to take it off their hands. Their hands, as in not our's for a long time since federal Liberals and Tories sold the environment to Exxon-Imperial and the fossil fuel industry decades ago.

I tried suggesting if the NDP wants to get Canadians excited about them again, maybe they should put things like nationalization back on the table. Most of the posters here freaked out like I was suggesting public puppy murder.

I like the idea of nationalisation - in Tommy Douglas' time. That was a time when federal governments were only tens of billions in debt and cold war era hewer and drawer economies expanding at steady clips. It's unsustainable today.

I think that there are a number of ways to nationalise that make sense. One of them is energy nationalism similar to the way Norway does it and salting away a nice nest egg for future generations of Norwegians, along with providing significant social spending in the here and now. Our stooges could learn from them.

Another way would be to put the Bank of Canada to better use, as in some use more than not at all as it is since 1991. It's still nationalised and just needs to be used for financing public programs and infrastructure. We don't need to be borrowing billions from private banks at high rates of interest. Either way we would need a means of financing nationalisations of of what was pawned off over the last several decades, hacked up and sold off to the four winds of the stock market at inflated share prices. Nationalising the physical assets could be expensive. I like the idea of nationalising the profits and slapping green taxes on raw materials and energy exports.

 I also like the idea of simply raising overall federal tax revenues to just the OECD average for starters. That would mean an extra $35 billion a year for social programs and infrastructure. And if they were to raise overall federal tax revs to the EU-15 average, well then we'd be looking at financing the creation of a real G8 country and economy. But our current stooges in Ottawa have no vision or leadership for these kinds of big ideas. And we won't even mention Scandinavian levels of spending on social democracy. Our biased news media and political machinery on the political right and further right would make the NDP out to be Bolsheviks PDQ.

There are some on the left who think the biggest achievement for an NDP federal government in their first term would simply be to introduce some democracy to Canadian politics. Perhaps a PR system of voting. I like that. We would ultimately need the support of all leftwing voters in Canada to do the big ideas anyway. I think the NDP would be looking to do whatever they plan to in the most democratic way, and PR fair voting is the way imo.

margot66

Anyone got a file on Rolex Libyans?  As in Rolex Iraquis in London etc. well funded for years before 91.  Stooges with perfect nails, ready to go for the petro ghouls, who Qadaffi held off for so long.

 

margot66

Also, it was interesting that on Sunday afternoon CBC Cross Country Checkup got quite a few calls in a row insisting that the Libyan people do not want foreign intervention, the phones apparently broke down.  The host read a few emails and then the dead air music came on, for ages and ages.  The microphone still worked, emails were still coming in.  Dead air music. 

 

margot66

Charming clip of Clinton with a son in 09.

http://bcove.me/wj9063xs

Frmrsldr

margot66 wrote:

Stooges with perfect nails, ready to go for the petro ghouls, who Qadaffi held off for so long.

Until 2003, that is. By 2003, Mr. Kadhafi rolled over like a lap poodle and accpted belly rubs from the Yanqui and E.U. oil and arms industries.

NDPP

Imperialist Hands Off Libya!

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/mar2011/pers-m01.shtml

"The United States and the European powers are moving towards direct military intervention in Libya. The pace of the shift in American policy is extraordinary. Washington has moved from relative silence to leading the charge for outside intervention. Imperialist military forces on the ground in Libya would be in a position to influence the future course of events in Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco, all now in turmoil, as well as across the Sahara in Sudan, Chad, Niger and Nigeria.

The US-European posture of humanitarian outrage has no credibility. Until 2 weeks ago, these powers were paying court to Gaddafi to obtain lucrative contracts for the exploitation of the oil and gas resources of Libya. They paid no heed then to Gaddafi's police state and the screams emanating from his torture chambers.

Hillary Clinton recently feted one of Gaddafi's sons in Washington and appointed the founding chairman of the US-Libya Business Association to be the State Department's coordinator for international energy affairs. The anti-Libya campaign is in the literal sense of the word an exercise in plunder. The first major action has the direct seizure of $30 billion in Libyan assets. While dubbed a 'freeze' it is in reality the confiscation of resources that belong to the people of Libya..."

and away we go..

Ottawa Prepares to Join Effort To Aid Libyan Opposition

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-prepares-to-join-eff...

"Ottawa is drawing up plans to take part in an international effort to airlift aid to opposition-held areas of Libya, as the world wrestles with the question of how much military muscle it will use to side with protesters against Moammar Gadhafi's regime. Canada, too, stepped up its military preparations, sending a 13 person reconnaissance team to Malta. CTV news reported that it has been told Canadian special forces are also on the ground in Libya.

Western countries, including Canada, now back the idea of entering Libyan territory, effectively ignoring the Gadhafi regime's claims to territorial sovereignty. Now Western nations, moving to impose sanctions under a UN resolution, have taken the rare step of backing forays into Libya's territory to effectively side with the rebels. The question is how far they will take it..."

NDPP

Canada Gets Tough on Libya

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Canada+gets+tough+Libya/4360073/story....

"As Canada began a crackdown on the financial assets of Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi and members of his regime, the government came under fire for not doing the same for Tunisia's ousted leader.

If they can freeze Gadhafi's assets, they can freeze Ben Ali's Duceppe said following question period. 'I don't understand their position."

A number of Canadian companies - many of them in the oil and gas sector - have operations in Libya including Suncor, Shell, Bombardier and Pure Technologies. Another, Montreal-based SNC Lavalin, is constructing a prison in Libya.

The Canadian Forces Operational Liason and Reconnaissance Team will also assess the situation in Libya and work with allies and other agencies, according to the Defence Department..."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

M. Spector wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

I'm optimistic, you're a pessimist. Time will tell who's right (not that it really matters).

Wrong again.

You're optimistic that everything will work out fine for U.S. imperialism. I'm optimistic that it won't.

And it does really matter.

 

Assuming the wrong assumptions as usual I see. Oh well whatever...

And I really don't see how us arguing here on babble is going to achieve anything in Libya.

NDPP

Gadhafi's Friend Turns Foe (and vid)

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/2011228232312771972...

"Libya's former Interior Minister says he stepped down to support the revolution and he now leads a growing rebel army. Abdel Fatlah Younes, the minister and Head of Special Forces in Libya, renounced his post last week. In an exclusive interview with Al Jazeera, Younes explains why he chose to step down and defend the revolution..."

so along with the Justice Minister from the regime, now two potential Libyan Suleimans in the opposition leadership.

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Richard Seymour wrote:
The massacres that Qadhafi's thugs have perpetrated in defence of the regime are very real, and very grisly, and I can't have much respect for the argument from some that Qadhafi's regime was historically progressive and thus worth defending. But these massacres aren't going to stop the regime from falling.

Now, the ideology of 'humanitarian intervention' is among other things a form of racist paternalism. It maintains, through its affirmations and exclusions, that people in the Third World cannot deliver themselves from dictatorship without the assistance of imperialist Euro-American states. Even if they do, the ideology in its present permutation maintains, they won't be able to maintain a decent society by themselves. In fact, there's a palpable fear of the Arab sans-culottes among Euro-American elites - even the express motives for 'humanitarian intervention' are not entirely altruistic. Bernard Lewis, Niall Ferguson, those ambassadors security experts, all seem to worry about what will happen in the 'vacuum' (which, significantly, depicts Libyan people, the revolutionaries who are bravely undertaking this historic struggle, as a mere absence). Are Arabs ready for democracy? Will the 'disorder' allow 'al-Qaeda' to 'reappear'? What will happen to oil prices?

And this seems to be the point. It is precisely because they know that Qadhafi will not survive, and are desperately worried about what sort of independent political forces may follow (it has nothing to do with 'al-Qaeda'), that they are anxious to 'help'.

[url=http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/03/revival-of-imperialist-ideology.h...

NDPP

US Military Positioning to Invade Libya?

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/167662.html

"Interview with Ramzy Baroud, author and editor of the Palestine Chronicle:

'My first thought was 'I hope it's not true', because if it is true then it is devastating. Earlier than Chavez, Fidel Castro had warned that NATO might be planning to invade Libya. Some of us thought this was too far fetched - that it is not going to happen. But it seems the delay in getting rid of Gaddafi might have empowered and emboldened the efforts of those countries that are trying to take control of Libya's oil fields and it's strategic location as well...

If a deadlock is reached then the West might come in as the hero, the champion and liberator, and so-called 'liberate' the Libyan people from their dictator. And that is going to shift things entirely in favour of future western interventions in the Middle East."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

   

No need for NATO or the US ground forces. The opposition won a decisive battle last night outside the city of Zawiya (a bit east of Tripoli). I've been following this in more detail on a different website and they defeated one of Gadaffis best equipped and trained units that are commanded by his son in a 6 hour night battle that involved both sides using tanks, armored personnel carriers and truck mounted anti aircraft artillery.

That means the Libyan army is now fighting Gadaffis elite guards with this being exactly the type of ground battle everyone was afraid the opposition couldn't win. Well they have won and the most important thing is the air force did not support the pro Gadaffi side in the assault. The remainder of the force is reported to be falling back to the capital and that's a very good indication Gadaffi is nearing the end of the road (we can hope). As long as the air force stays grounded there will be no need to help the opposition, they just defeated one of his best units in battle.

 

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

China is also operating in the region and has been hands on in evacuating its citizens from the many Chinese business projects.  Seems like NATO is not alone.  Maybe the new Libyan government that arises will be able to successfully balance between the west and east.  

Quote:

China has so far evacuated 32,000 of its citizens out of Libya in a huge operation that involves chartered and military planes and a naval frigate.

The People's Liberation Army Daily, official newspaper of the nation's military, said this week it was the first time China had used a naval vessel in an overseas rescue mission.

According to state media, most Chinese living in Libya work in the oil, rail and telecom sectors.

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hsTxusFUTa9lxopdxyPJY...

NDPP

Elite Canadian Soldiers Hit Ground in Libyan Crisis

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/elite-canadian-soldiers-hit...

"Canada's Special Forces soldiers are playing an active role in the country's response to the crisis in Libya, the Globe and Mail has learned.."

 

COAT: Canadian Manufacturers of Military or Police Products with 'Export Experience' to Middle East and North Africa

http://coat.ncf.ca/mideast/MilitaryExporters.htm

 

wage zombie

Better book that time off work Bec.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

wage zombie wrote:

Better book that time off work Bec.

No big deal I'm maxed out on leave as it is plus I got about 8 days use or lose leave so I'm over due anyways. I can vist my mom and my dad's grave while I'm up there.

NDPP

US, NATO Bases Prepare Libya Attack?

http://www.presstv.com/detail/167635.html

"The US and NATO bases in Italy are preparing for military action against Libya as forces loyal to Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi mass in the west of the country, analysts say. 'We signed the friendship treaty with a state, but when the counterpart no longer exists -- in this case the Libyan state - the treaty cannot be applied, 'Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini told Sky Italia about a treaty signed between Tripoli and Rome three years ago.

The suspension of the treaty makes it possible for Rome to take part in any peacekeeping operations in crisis-hit Libya. It will also allow Italy to give permission to its allies to use military bases across the country in any military engagement with Libya. Several NATO and US bases are located in Italy, including the US Sixth Fleet, which is based near Naples. Analysts maintain that Italy's resignation from the treaty is a prelude to a military intervention in Libya..."

OIC Against Military Intervention

http://www.presstv.com/detail/167713.html

"The Organization of the Islamic Conference has emphasized that it  was against any military intervention by USA and its Western allies in Libya. Speaking at the UN Human Rights Council, OIC Secretary General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu stressed that the crisis should be settled peacefully."

 

US Urges Support for Libyan Mercenaries

http://www.presstv.com/detail/167663.html

"The United States has demanded the United Nations Security Council remove the provision of charging mercenaries with warcrimes in the killing of Libyan civilians.."

precedents can come back to haunt one  - if only theoretically.

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