Kremlingate part 2

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josh

The only fascists I see in this matter are Trump and Putin.

This minority of leftist reactionaries therefore exposes a wider tendency that remains largely unchallenged: the concealing of authoritarian politics under the banner of anti-imperialism. As long as anti-imperialist politics is not coupled with anti-authoritarian politics, there is little moral difference between those on the left and right.

https://www.972mag.com/tankies-left-authoritarians-imperialism/

Mobo2000

The conclusion from article above:

"The solution to this state of affairs is both straightforward and complex. It is straightforward because opposing Russian or Chinese imperialism can be done in the same vein as opposing U.S. imperialism. Yet pressing this argument also requires tankies to decenter “the West” — where they are overwhelmingly located — from their analysis, and in doing so also requires them to decenter themselves.

Only then would these “anti-imperialists” truly oppose that which they claim to oppose: destruction and injustice, regardless of who is committing them. Abandoning such binary camps in favor of truly transnational and anti-authoritarian principles would benefit these activists and their causes."

This is a familiar argument against a strawman.   There is no neutral place from which one can centre themselves within anti-authoritarian politics.  To attempt to do so requires one ignores the existing balance of power among the existing authorities and associated power structures.   Chinese imperialism, French imperialism, Russian imperialism are not similar in scale to US imperialism and this is the crucial point.   The US is the largest most active imperial power on the planet and has been for the last 50 years.    This does not excuse the crimes of others, but it does indicate where the bulk of our attention should lie.   Even moreso when we materially support that imperial power, are in an alliance with it, and our government is actively supporting it's authoritarian projects.

When a larger imperialist power intervenes in an authoritarian undemocratic state, such as US  in Syria, the result is not greater freedom.   Opposition to great power interventions is not support for the existing regime in the target country.   The opposition comes because it's obvious the intervention will not lead to democracy, and was not undertaken to do so.    Discussion or interrogation of the US or Canadian government's actual motives for involvement in an imperial project is crucial to understanding possible successful tactics to oppose it.    It is true that this speculation may expose genuine progressive activists in target countries to be smeared as foreign agents, but that is a regular part of the authoritarian playbook, regardless of who says what online.   And it is also true that sometimes progressive activists in far away countries that we are encouraged to root for and support are not so progressive, or are foreign funded fronts for an imperial project, resting on a genuine grievance or injustice.

Centred in "the West" as we are, within the western media bubble, we have no choice but to consider and investigate these possibilities.   The article above chastises activists as simplistic,  but the proposed solution is so simple it accomplishes nothing.

josh

Trump pardons Flynn, as expected.

Mobo2000

Here's hoping Edward Snowden is next.

NDPP

Trump Pardons Michael Flynn

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1331783414933032960

"I really hope that pardoning Flynn is not the 'final salvo.' The final salvo should include declassifying documents -- including the attribution for the core Russia hacking allegation -- and pardoning Edward Snowden & Julian Assange, foes of the Russiagate fraudsters."

NDPP

Greenwald: After the Deep State Sabotaged His Presidential Bid, Bernie Sanders Mocks Those Who Believe it Exists

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/after-the-deep-state-sabotaged-his

"At what would be the peak of  Bernie Sanders' 2020 presidential campaign, the US intelligence community, using anonymous leaks to The Washington Post, dropped a devastating bomb on the Vermont Senator. 'US officials have told Sen. Bernie Sanders that Russia is attempting to help his presidential campaign as part of an effort to interfere with the Democratic contest,' the paper announced, citing 'people familiar with the matter', whom the paper allowed to speak 'on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.'

At the time of this perfectly timed leak, Sanders was on a major roll. He had effectively tied Pete Buttigieg for first place in the scandal-plagued Iowa caucus, in which an app, developed and sold by Democratic Party operatives made it impossible to reliably count the votes and then won the first primary in New Hampshire (Joe Biden finished 4th and 5th respectively, declared all but dead by the punditocracy and Democratic donors...

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Trump Pardons Michael Flynn

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1331783414933032960

"I really hope that pardoning Flynn is not the 'final salvo.' The final salvo should include declassifying documents -- including the attribution for the core Russia hacking allegation -- and pardoning Edward Snowden & Julian Assange, foes of the Russiagate fraudsters."

And now Flynn is calling on Trump to declare martial law.

NDPP

A Pandemic of 'Russian Hacking'

https://consortiumnews.com/2020/12/19/a-pandemic-of-russian-hacking/

"...On Dec 12, 2016, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) used sensitive intelligence revealed by Edward Snowden, the expertise of former NSA technical directors, and basic principles of physics to show that accusations that Russia hacked those embarrassing DNC emails were fraudulent.

A year later, on Dec 5, 2017, the head of CrowdStrike, the cyber-firm hired by the DNC to do the forensics, testified under oath that there was no technical evidence that the emails had been 'exfiltrated', that is hacked from the DNC.

His testimony was kept hidden by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff until Schiff was forced to release it on May 7, 2020. That testimony is still being kept under wraps by Establishment media. Many Democrats, unfortunately still believe - or profess to believe - the hacking and the Trump campaign - Russia conspiracy story; The former debunked by Henry's testimony and the latter by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Both were legally obligated to tell the truth, while the intelligence agencies were not."

josh

Mueller Report you say?

"The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion," Mueller wrote in the 448-page document, which lays out new details about a Kremlin-backed plot that compromised Democrats' computer networks and targeted state and local election offices.

Investigators found that Russian hackers compromised 29 computers at the DCCC and stole more than 70 gigabytes of files from the group’s shared file server. They also hacked more than 30 Democratic National Committee computers in less than two months and stole approximately 300 gigabytes from a DNC cloud-based service.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/18/mueller-report-russian-election-plot-1365568

josh

President Trump went on pardon tear Tuesday night as his presidency wanes, with the White House announcing grants of clemency for key figures in the 2016 Russia investigation and for congressional allies of Trump who were prosecuted during his administration.

Trump granted a full pardon to his former 2016 campaign adviser George Papadopoulos, who kickstarted the Russian investigation when he told a foreign diplomat about Russia’s efforts to dig up dirt on Hillary Clinton. Papadopoulos pleaded guilty in special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation for making false statements to the FBI.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-pardons-papadopoulos-collins-hunter-stockman

NDPP

"The reason Mueller didn't ask to speak to Assange/WikiLeaks is obvious. The report's contrived legal theories are revealing. WikiLeaks and Julian Assange are owed an apology."

https://twitter.com/khrafnsson/status/1323753052197834758

NDPP

Key Mueller Witness Exposes Key Russiagate Lies

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1344413306237427713

"Rick Gates, a key Mueller witness, was used by Mueller's team (aka collusion content producers) and credulous journalists (aka fan fiction writers) to fuel Russiagate conspiracy theories. Now he's setting the record straight. Transcript of interview with me."

NDPP

RussiaGate - The Most Fraudulent Political Scandal in American History (vid)

https://twitter.com/IMIXWHATILIKE/status/1347226506037059584

Prof Jared Ball/Aaron Mate

NDPP

Bombshell Revelations as Trump declassifies all FBI Documents in Russia Probe.

https://justhenews.com/podcasts/john-solomon-reports/bombshell-revelatio...

"A bombshell revelation in the remaining FBI documents on Russia collusion shows that the entire narrative was created and leaked to the news media to neutralize [Crooked] Hillary Clinton's concerns that her email scandal hadn't gone away."

Sweet. Can't wait!

JKR

josh

NDPP wrote:

Bombshell Revelations as Trump declassifies all FBI Documents in Russia Probe.

https://justhenews.com/podcasts/john-solomon-reports/bombshell-revelatio...

"A bombshell revelation in the remaining FBI documents on Russia collusion shows that the entire narrative was created and leaked to the news media to neutralize [Crooked] Hillary Clinton's concerns that her email scandal hadn't gone away."

Sweet. Can't wait!

John Solomon.  The Sidney Powell of journalism.

NDPP

Yes, we should all have to only use your approved US msm/pro-Democrat sources.

 

Declassified Docs on Russiagate Probe Reveal Problems with Sources, 'Politicisation' from the Start

https://sptnkne.ws/EZqZ

"The US intelligence community spent four years and tens of millions of dollars probing Donald Trump's alleged collusion with Russia during the 2016 election campaign. Crossfire Hurricane, the FBI counterintelligence investigation launched in July 2016 election campaign to investigate candidate (and eventually President) Trump's possible links to the Kremlin was wracked by credibility problems and politicisation from the very start, agent testimony contained in 1,800+ pages of transcripts of closed-door interviews released by Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Lindsey Graham reveals..."

NDPP

Kunstler: Signs and Wonders

https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/signs-and-wonders-2/

"...A crisis of legitimacy means that citizens have lost faith in their institutions. That is, in the armature of agreements and procedures for running society. Do you have any idea how much damage RussiaGate did to the country? The three-year-long-mind-fuck perpetrated by the highest officials of the FBI and the CIA ruined whatever was left of their reputations. Not only are citizens not safe from the powers of life-and-death vested in these agencies, but they know that officials who wield that power recklessly won't be held responsible when acting outside the law. Are we better now than the Russians under Leonid Brezhnev? Is it any wonder that a huge chunk of the population doesn't believe the election was on the level?"

JKR

josh

On Oct. 12, 2020, Fox News agreed to pay millions of dollars to the family of a murdered Democratic National Committee staff member, implicitly acknowledging what saner minds knew long ago: that the network had repeatedly hyped a false claim that the young staff member, Seth Rich, was involved in leaking D.N.C. emails during the 2016 presidential campaign. (Russian intelligence officers, in fact, had hacked and leaked the emails.)

https://twitter.com/cliffordlevy/status/1350989876880142342?s=20

 

NDPP

Drivel endlessly repeated is still drivel. No hack, no Russians. Just someone pissed off with the DNC/Clinton corruption who downloaded it onto a thumbdrive and gave it to Craig Murray who gave it to WikiLeaks. The Podesta password ('password') was also helpful.

NorthReport

Another right-wing conspiracy theory which seem to be quite numerous for a progressive board

It would not come as a surprise to see Trump eventually hosting a show on Fox News

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-stipulated-seth-rich-settlement...

NDPP

Stop calling this a 'progressive board'. You yourself are prima-facie evidence that it is no such thing.

NorthReport

So again why did Fox News have to pay Seth Rich's family if it wasn't another one of your continuous right-wing conspiracy theories?

Only 2 days to go!

josh

NDPP wrote:

Stop calling this a 'progressive board'. You yourself are prima-facie evidence that it is no such thing.

Look in the mirror, pal.

NDPP

As This Cult's Mantra Goes: 'All roads lead to Putin'

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1351337677942120448

"Have you heard of #BlueAnon? Here, two top members speculate that Trump spoke to Putin before the MAGA riot and call for a 9/11-style commission on Trump-Putin ties..."

Trump derangement syndrome continues because it serves the interests of Democrat power/control.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

... and call for a 9/11-style commission on Trump-Putin ties..."

A commission on Trump-Putin ties sound like a good idea to me. That could clear up a lot of serious controversy in the U.S. Why should some people be so afraid of clearing the air?

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Stop calling this a 'progressive board'. You yourself are prima-facie evidence that it is no such thing.

Look in the mirror, pal.

Fuck I hate this level of debate. First of all in Canadian terms the term progressive has never meant left wing. The Progressive party merged with the Conservatives not the socialists. North Report is a Progressive in the old school sense and NDPP is so far to the left it is beyond believe that anyone would call him a right winger. And then we have Josh our resident US censor who wants to limit debate to the parameters he is comfortable with and will insult anyone who wants to go outside the American paradigm he is stuck in.

 

Mobo2000

Yes, agree.

"NDPP is so far to the left it is beyond believe that anyone would call him a right winger."

The ones that do are centrists, who think "too far left is right" and that there is a reasonable path to follow, if only we would trust the informed experts.   

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

josh wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Stop calling this a 'progressive board'. You yourself are prima-facie evidence that it is no such thing.

Look in the mirror, pal.

Fuck I hate this level of debate. First of all in Canadian terms the term progressive has never meant left wing. The Progressive party merged with the Conservatives not the socialists. North Report is a Progressive in the old school sense and NDPP is so far to the left it is beyond believe that anyone would call him a right winger. And then we have Josh our resident US censor who wants to limit debate to the parameters he is comfortable with and will insult anyone who wants to go outside the American paradigm he is stuck in.

 

LOL.  Yes, he's so far left that he's come around right.  With his band of right-wing allies, whether it be in the U.S. or Russia.

https://www.972mag.com/tankies-left-authoritarians-imperialism/

bekayne

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 

Fuck I hate this level of debate. First of all in Canadian terms the term progressive has never meant left wing. The Progressive party merged with the Conservatives not the socialists.

Not quite. They changed their name to get Bracken to become leader.

kropotkin1951

bekayne wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 

Fuck I hate this level of debate. First of all in Canadian terms the term progressive has never meant left wing. The Progressive party merged with the Conservatives not the socialists.

Not quite. They changed their name to get Bracken to become leader.

That is right,

Bracken left the Manitoba Agricultural College to begin a new career in politics in 1922. He was elected to the provincial legislature in that year under the banner of the United Farmers of Manitoba. The UFM was a loose coalition primarily of farmers frustrated with the traditional parties. With candidates in less than two thirds of provincial ridings, a limited campaign, and no leader, the UFM won a majority. Bracken, who admitted before the election he had never voted, emerged as the leader. He served as premier until 1942.  First as leader of the UFM and later as leader of the Progressive Party. In 1942, the Progressives merged with the federal Conservatives to form the Progressive Conservative Party. Bracken left provincial politics to serve as the leader of the federal opposition until 1948.

https://mysteriesofcanada.com/manitoba/john-bracken/

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

LOL.  Yes, he's so far left that he's come around right.  With his band of right-wing allies, whether it be in the U.S. or Russia.

https://www.972mag.com/tankies-left-authoritarians-imperialism/

This is classic US propaganda meant to stifle any debate in the world that does not buy its "pro-democracy and freedom" bullshit. Its a pile of bile and frankly by posting it you show that you are a tool of your propaganda machine. The  people destroying the legislature in Hong Kong while carrying US supplied flags and MAGA hats are the same fascists as the ones who stormed Congress. Those kinds of people all over the world are sponsored by American security agencies of various varieties and are ideologues who want corporate control under US hegemony. You call that progressive I call it imperialism.

josh

972 is opposed to U.S. Mideast policy and supports one state in Israel/Palestine.  But I guess you can call it U.S. propaganda if you want.  

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

972 is opposed to U.S. Mideast policy and supports one state in Israel/Palestine.  But I guess you can call it U.S. propaganda if you want.  

You seem to think that if a site like the Guardian or this 972 site writes some pieces that are good and accurate then everything they write is the same. That is what effective propaganda does to dupes.  I commented on the content of this article not the site it was published on. You dismiss things based on where they are published with absolutely no critical analysis about the content. I read for content and I read items from all perspectives. It keeps me from becoming a sheeple.

NDPP

McGovern: Round up the usual suspects; don't forget Putin

https://original.antiwar.com/mcgovern/2021/01/20/round-up-the-usual-susp...

"Due largely to the captive 'mainstream' media, 'Russia, Russia Russia' has proven to be the gift that keeps on giving for the Democrats. Are there limits to the degree of credence [North] Americans will give to corporate media spinning all the sins attributed to Russian President Putin? It's a matter of convenience.

For the Democrats it has been super-convenient to blame Mrs Clinton's defeat in 2016 on Russia, although key aspects of that case (Russian 'hacking' of the DNC, for example) have been debunked. But don't go away, Russia, not just yet. The MICIMATT still finds you convenient as the kind of 'threat' is can cite to justify spending untold billions on defense, enriching the already rich. Please see 'Why Russia Must Be Demonized'..."

josh

Debunked?  LOL. What bunk.  Let's get Sidney Powell on the case.

NorthReport

If Putin had made a concession to Trump, Trump might have won the election.

kropotkin1951

NorthReport wrote:

If Putin had made a concession to Trump, Trump probably might have won the election.

Wow!! Do you really think that a US election is that easy to rig?

 

NDPP

Hillary Clinton's Russia-Gating Fuels Suppression of the Left

https://youtu.be/nLdz9-fdp8o

The Jimmy Dore Show

NorthReport

Trump seems to think so, but it does seem to appear that they blew it.

The Trump insurrection was America’s Beer Hall Putsch 

A pro-Trump crowd gathers in front of the U.S. Capitol building on Jan.6.

A pro-Trump mob overwhelmed the Capitol Police to invade the U.S. Capitol building on Jan. 6.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-01-16/donald-trump-insurrecti...

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

If Putin had made a concession to Trump, Trump probably might have won the election.

Wow!! Do you really think that a US election is that easy to rig?

 

NDPP

The Plot Against the President (and vid)

https://vimeo.com/472384898

Dem attempts to overturn the election of 2016.

NDPP

McGovern: Will Comey's Words Come Back to Haunt Him?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56342.htm

"Thanks to an FOIA request, we now have documentary evidence showing Comey pressing ahead to validate Steele amid a distinct lack of enthusiasm on the part of other agency heads. Clearly the latter were reluctant to push Steele's salacious storytelling, lest they threw additional doubt on their own threadbare tales of Trump's collusion with Russia..."

josh

Right-wingers ran a pro-Trump spy operation inside the White House to collect compromat on critics and smear the FBI’s Russia investigation, using Erik Prince and James O’Keefe.

https://twitter.com/JaneMayerNYer/status/1393235333505032194?s=20

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

Right-wingers ran a pro-Trump spy operation inside the White House to collect compromat on critics and smear the FBI’s Russia investigation, using Erik Prince and James O’Keefe.

https://twitter.com/JaneMayerNYer/status/1393235333505032194?s=20

You always claim I have no idea what you think on issues. I think that if you post from a US propaganda site like the NY Times without comment then you believe the article uncritically.

I love how the Democrats think that all Trumpites are fools for falling for the Republican medias bias and all Republicans think Democrats are fools for falling for the Democratic medias bias. For once I can honestly say I am in agreement with the vast majority of Americans on an issue. Both sides of the duopoly are fools for falling for their oligarchies media.

josh

I never said that.  I said you had no idea what I thought on a particular issue.  It's clear to anyone who's been following the subject of this thread what I think about this issue.  But that doesn't mean I want to expand NATO or go to war with Russia.  Quite the contrary.  You see, you can walk and chew gum at the same time.  Maybe you should give it a try.

kropotkin1951

You post propaganda from the New York Times. It seems clear that you believe the delusions that your side of the duopoly feeds you.

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