Libya 14

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Libya 14
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Why Regime Change in Libya?  by Ismael Hossein-Zadeh

http://www.counterpunch.org/zadeh06172011.html

"...There is undeniable evidence that contrary to the spontaneous, unarmed and peaceful protest demonstrations in Egypt, Tunisia and Bahrain, the rebellion in Libya has been nurtured, armed and orchestrated largely from abroad, in collaboration with expat opposition groups and their local allies at home.

Indeed, evidence shows that plans of 'regime change' in Libya were drawn long before the insurgency actually started in Benghazi; it has all the hallmarks of a well-orchestrated civil war.

So the answer to the question 'why the imperialist powers want to do away with Gaddafi has to go beyond oil or the laughable 'humanitarian concerns'.' Perhaps the question can be answered best in the light of the following question: why do these imperialist powers also want to overthrow Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, Fidel Castro (and/or his successors) of Cuba, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, Rafael Correa Delgado of Ecuador, Kim Jong-il of North Korea, Bashar al-assad of Syria and Evo Morales of Bolivia...?

Gaddafi is guilty of insubordination to the proverbial godfather of the world, US imperialism and its allies." [ including Canada and all the good doggies in Parliament who voted FOR. Only Elizabeth May stood against. ]

NDPP

NATO Incorporates Libyan Experience For Global War Template  - by Rick Rozoff STOPNATO

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25314

"...The world's only military bloc is aleady integrating lessons learned from the conflict into its international model of military intervention based on earlier wars in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq...'NATO is more needed and wanted than ever, from Afghanistan to Kosovo, from the coast of Somalia to Libya. We are busier than ever before.' - NATO Sec Gen Anders Fogh Rasmusen

 

NDPP

'NATO Operations in Libya are Collective Punishment' : Cynthia McKinney (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/nato-libya-mckinney-us/

"Cynthia McKinney believes the bombardments of Libyan cities and other measures taken by NATO, causing civilian casualties, represents the idea of 'collective punishment'.

'NATO is preventing shipments of fuel, food and mediciine to come in - There have been efforts to get medicines into the country that have been denied by NATO, it is impossible to go on any street and miss the large queues - sometimes three or four deep - that go on and on as they queue up to get gasoline from the service station.'

McKinney also told RT how universities and other civilian facilities are being bombed by NATO troops..."

Canadian led and NDP approved

Polunatic2

Nato suggests 'weapons systems failure' in Tripoli raid

 

Quote:
"Nato deeply regrets any civilian loss of life during [the Libya] operation, and we would be very sorry indeed if a review of this incident concludes that it was a Nato weapon," said Wing Cdr Bracken.
Note how he doesn't deny that the house was bombed but questions whether it was a NATO bomb - i.e. that Libyans may have bombed the house themselves.
Quote:
The incident came shortly after Nato "regretted any possible loss of life" from an accidental air strike on a rebel column near the oil refinery town of Brega on Thursday.
Another "oops" moment? 

 

Fidel

10 bipartisani members of Congress are suing Obama for violating War Powers Act grtv

War Powers Act written in 1973, 

Kucinich asks Reaganaut defending Obama:

             If there were 2000 bombing sorties flown over America by a foreign nation, would it be an act of war?

Obama's unhealthy addiction to warfiteering  Tariq Ali for grtv


Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

In case this hasn't already been posted... from Rabble.ca:

The NDP and Libya: What would Tommy Douglas think?

 

excerpt:

I'm thinking Tommy Douglas would be mightily embarrassed. But then, he really was a socialist and a crusader for social justice. Jack Layton and the current NDP can't claim to be either.

NDPP

Baird Will Meet With Rebels in Libya

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Baird+will+meet+rebels+Libya/4967920/s...

"...Baird told the House of Commons that Canada would recognize the NTL as the 'legitimate representatives of the Libyan people going forward."

Fidel

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110618/ts_nm/us_libya]al-Qaeda rebels in Libya blame West for lack of cash[/url] Someone is shirking their obligations to Qaeda or even pocketing the gladio change

NDPP

Baird To Meet Libyan Rebel Leaders, Promises Speedy Lifting of Sanctions

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/minister-to-visit-anti-gadh...

"Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird says he will travel to Benghazi to meet Libya's rebel leaders and is considering ways to speed the release of frozen [$2.3 Billion! in stolen] Libyan funds in a transition to a post Gadhafi Libya. 'There's a significant amount of funds which have been frozen. We want to expeditiously be able to unfreeze those assets when we can,' Mr Baird said...'

NDPP

Following in Churchill's Footsteps  - by William Bowles

http://williambowles.info/2011/06/16/william-hague-following-in-churchil...

"Now let me get this straight: In order to save civilian lives (the infamous 'Right to Protect'), the Empire, through its Rottweiler NATO [commanded in Libya by Canadian Charles 'The Butcher-Bomber' Bouchard], not only deindustrializes Libya but it also causes a mass exodus of refugees hundreds of whom drowned and many thousands were left stranded, attacked and abused.

The Pirates attempted to assassinate Gaddafi but succeeded in killing women and children instead. The Pirates bomb educational infrastructure, communications, power, agriculture and terrorize the population from the air and sea with the combined miltary might of the most powerful countries on the planet.

So this is what humanitarian intervention looks like?"

 

Bouchard Proud Of Canada's Role (and vid)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/video/video-bouchard-proud-of-canada...

Libya Mission Commander, Lt. Gen. Charles 'The Butcher' Bouchard is proud to be killing for Canada in Libya. But things aren't going too well and rumour has it the PTB have decided Charlie will have to walk the plank soon. Here he is folks, your very own real live Canadian warcriminal.

 

Libyan Officials: 'NATO Murdered Civilians in Tripoli' (and vid)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/858...

"Reporters were later shown bodies, two of them toddlers, with officials claiming they died in a 'barbaric' Nato air raid in the early hours of Sunday morning. Libyan gov't spokesman Moussa Ibrahim accused the Western alliance of 'deliberately targeting civilians' insisting there were no military targets anywhere near the residential neighborhood."

NDPP

Seven Civilians Killed By NATO Airstrike in Tripoli (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/seven-civilians-killed-nato/

"...They were attacked by rockets from the sky. People were killed, children,' he told RT. 'With my ownhands, with my own eyes I saw and helped to take out little girls who were killed and little boys, the father and mother. Two whole families perished under the attack. You cannot justify this attack with anything. This is not the protection of civilians,' Moussa Ibrahim added.

CANADIAN AIR FORCE LIEUTENANT CHARLES BOUCHARD, COMMANDER OF THE LIBYA CAMPAIGN, said the incident was caused by weapons failure and that the alliance regrets the deaths. 'NATO takes great care in conducting strikes against a regime determined to use violence against its own citizens,' he said. Earlier, the alliance confirmed it had mistakenly attacked rebel forces, but the number killed in that friendly-fire attack has not been established.

After having spoken to representatives from both sides, [Russian peace mediator Michael] Margetov said everyone is ready for negotiations, but NATO should first stop the airstrikes.."

Tripoli Bombings Hit Britons' In The Wallet

http://rt.com/news/libya-war-cost-britain/

"As civilian deaths in Libya grow, anger mounts among the Western taxpayers footing the bill for the military intervention. The commitment to continue in Libya for however long suggests a blank check at a time when there is little in the kitty. The deployment of Apache helicopters does not appear to have given NATO the technical advantage it hoped for..."

Apologist For War Crimes   by Xymphora

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2011/06/apologist-for-war-crimes.html

"...The British Defence Secretary has left no question that the mass bombing of civilian neighbourhoods in Tripoli is indeed intended to assassinate Gaddafi. The intent from the beginning was to lead to a Yinon-style break up of Libya into two parts..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Angus Reid is running a poll: Should Canada be deploying forces to Libya?

http://rm2.angusreidforum.com/LP/820f82b16aa44d398812f49c919dc577/a.aspx...$0a7ab5112b4d44508df874ecdb9c0218

notaradical

Shikha Dalmia has posted a new blog on The Real News Network claiming that "Humanitarian concerns are driving America's involvement in Libya".

Shikha Dalmia wrote:
Humanitarian considerations might not solely inform this administration's Mideast policy, but they are an important part of the mix. Had Libya been of more economic, strategic or security importance like Syria, Bahrain, and Egypt, we might not have indulged them. But it is not, so there is little reason not to. In other words, "humanitarian outcomes" are not the "byproduct" of our intervention in Libya, they are the core reason we are there even if this hurts our oil prospects.

The antiwar camp likes the greed rationale because it wants to blame America's seemingly endless quest for war on the inherent logic of its system. But the truth is that the Bush administration had its own reasons for engaging in optional wars and the Obama administration has its own. To pin every war on the greed of corporate capitalism has the virtue of parsimony, but it is false. Greed is arguably more a force for timidity than belligerence in the world.

It might be disconcerting that the road to global hell is being paved not by our greed but our good intentions. But building a solid case against war will require us to admit just that. We don't serve the cause of peace in Libya or elsewhere by making this all about oil all the time.

This is disconcerting to say the least because it was posted on The Real News Network, which is usually a very progressive broadcast journalism website (run by former CBC Counterspin producer Paul Jay). I've seen Ms. Dalmia interviewed on several TRNN videos before, most notably regarding the US "Obamacare" bill, in which she debated with a leader in the nursing community over the benefits of a market-model of healthcare. She continuously dodged the nurse's question of whether health care is a human right or a commodity.

This blog just flies in the face of common logic. Gaddafi had been intending for quite some time to nationalize oil in Libya, and now the rebel leadership is forging deals for the export of Libyan crude. What is humanitarian about deeper bombing raids (after the 60 day time frame) into Tripoli that don't serve to protect the rebel fighters and have instead already caused collateral damage?

I'm an ardent supporter of TRNN but this person needs to be booted off their columns. If anyone else follows TRNN, I encourage you to send Paul Jay a letter asking for their disassociation of this neocon puppet. Thousands of faithful progressives visit the site on a daily basis for a regular dose of truth and this column will only serve to tarnish the considerable reputation TRNN has built over the past few years.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

Gaddafi's first problem is that Libya is a big strategically placed country with weak defences, a small population, sitting on top of huge and much covetted oil and gas reserves. Since he overthrew King Idris in 1969, as a dashing young nationalist and socialist army officer, he has upset a lot of people and countries including calling the Gulf Arab monarchs "a lot of fat corrupt women" but he has survived determined attempts by the West to unseat him and, on one occasion at least, in 1986, to kill him. He has not hesitated to repay the compliments in kind. In addition he seems to have been deliberately smeared for certain acts of terrorism for which he was not responsible. Ironically, his isolation is increased by his hostility to Islamic fundamentalists.

In addition he has used his oil wealth to fund the African Union to the detriment of Sarkozy's NATO/neocon inspired Mediterranean Union and encouraged it to be as independent as possible of the West. Much of the huge sums of Libyan money seized by the Western nations during this war was intended to fund initiatives in Africa. He has also funded an independent African satellite telephone system with a view to reducing the cost of telephone calls in Africa from the highest in the world. This has allegedly cost European companies 500 million euros a year in revenues. He has considered further nationalising of the oil industry and renegotiating contracts. Perhaps worst of all he has proposed a new all Africa currency backed by gold and threatened to demand payment for oil in it rather than the dollar. This would have seriously embarrassed the already rickety United States dollar regime, but also the currency in former French West Africa, the CFA franc, originally linked to the French franc.

Sarkozy's war

The French president started the Libyan war -- what drove him to risk the effort?

notaradical

I only wonder why Gaddafi didn't call out the West for its true intentions while he had his soapbox. He still kind of does. Instead, he goes after the largely defunct Al-Qaeda? Can anyone shed some light on why he might have done this?

Caissa

The International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants Monday for Moammar Gadhafi, his son Seif, and his intelligence chief for crimes against humanity in the Libyan leader's four-month battle to cling to power.

Judges announced that the three men are wanted for orchestrating the killing, injuring, arrest and imprisonment of hundreds of civilians during the first 12 days of an uprising to topple Gadhafi from power, and for trying to cover up the alleged crimes.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/06/27/libya-gadhafi-court.html

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Obama is still free. Where is the justice in going after a bit player when the head don is untouchable.  He has ordered death and destruction to rain down on Pakistanis, Yemenis, Libyans and Afghans.  The monthly NATO civilian murder count around the world is far greater than Gaddafi's has been since he fell out of favour as one of NATO's preferred arms customers.  

Caissa

Has ther ever been any doubt as to the true nature of the International Criminal Court?

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Caissa wrote:

Has ther ever been any doubt as to the true nature of the International Criminal Court?

You mean the ICC that is supported by every party in the Canadian parliament? Do you mean the same ICC that the NDP praises regularly?

I guess there does seem to be a consensus on the ICC and the D2P in our political class no matter what side of the spectrum the parties are on.  

Rikardo

The ICC is largely a project of zealous human-rights-ists, lawyers, World Federalists and other intellectuals from NATO countries. It has cost over one billion so far, for around 500 well-paid activists, roaming Africa for victims. India, China, Russia and the USA are not in it. What legitimacy has the ICC aside from its name ? Could it ever indict Bush or Blair ? Would we accept a Canadian Supreme Court with only PEI and Alberta and BC without Ontario and Quebec. The indictment of Gadhafi shows that it is Victors' Justice

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

It is all credit to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch that they have taken a sceptical attitude to atrocities until proven. Contrast this responsible attitude with that of Hillary Clinton or the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, who blithely suggested that Gaddafi was using rape as a weapon of war to punish the rebels. Equally irresponsible would be a decision by the ICC to prosecute Gaddafi and his lieutenants, thus making it far less likely that Gaddafi can be eased out of power without a fight to the finish. This systematic demonisation of Gaddafi – a brutal despot he may be, but not a monster on the scale of Saddam Hussein – also makes it difficult to negotiate a ceasefire with him, though he is the only man who can deliver one.

 

Patrick Cockburn: Don't believe everything you see and read about Gaddafi

Frmrsldr

Quote:

This systematic demonisation of Gaddafi – a brutal despot he may be, but not a monster on the scale of Saddam Hussein...

That's a slippery slope argument as it establishes a scale of "monsterness" and "brutal despotism."

In morally relative terms of who's more "monsterly" and more "brutally despotic" to whom.

Moammar Gadhaffi or Saddam Hussein?

Moammar Gadhaffi or Robert Mugabe?

Robert Mugabe or Saddam Hussein?

Augusto Pinochet or Saddam Hussein?

Saddam Hussein or Mao Tze Tung?

Mao Tze Tung or Pol Pot?

Pol Pot or Mao Tze Tung or Josef Stalin?

Josef Stalin or Pol Pot or Adolf Hitler?

al-Qa'bong

Any of the above and Barry Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan.

 

Frmrsldr

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Any of the above and Barry Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan.

So now the moral criteria are absolute,

All it takes is (at least) one act of "monsterliness" or brutality from a national leader to become a member of the club?Wink

Caissa

A group of Libyan students at the University of New Brunswick will be able to attend courses for another year after funding finally came through from their home country.

The funding had been caught up in international trade sanctions and internal unrest in Libya, but the Libyan government released the money last week.

The scholarships pay for tuition, medical benefits and accommodation for 500 students across Canada, including a dozen at UNB. Along with Libyan students around the world, they were stranded in a foreign country with little money.

Many universities, including UNB, covered the students' costs in June.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2011/06/27/nb-libyan-s...

Frmrsldr

The Straits Times (Singapore) wrote:

Mr. Mohamed Zekri Mahjubi [Libya's prosecutor general] told foreign journalists in Tripoli he was seeking to prosecute Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen in Libyan courts for 'war crimes'.

'As Nato secretary general, Rusmussen is responsible for the actions of his organisation which has attacked an unarmed people, killing 1,108 civilians and wounding 4,537 others in bombardment of Tripoli and other cities and villages.'

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_690475.html

Good for Mr. Mahjubi!

It's about time someone went after that creep Anders Fogh Rasmussen for war crimes/crimes against humanity.

Brace yourselves, folks!

Looks like the war on Libya is going to go beyond the predicted September deadline:

(As if you didn't already know or suspect this.)

Jason Ditz wrote:

In broad comments regarding the ever-stalemated Libyan War, British Defense Secretary Liam Fox conceded that his government has no clue how much longer the war will last, and that military commanders are preparing for several more months.

British forces had originally presented the plan as a 90 day conflict, but some four months in there is no sign of any change on the ground. Fox had previously suggested the war might last through Christmas, but now there is a suggestion it may go even longer.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/07/13/british-dm-libya-war-could-last-months/

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Frmrsldr wrote:

The Straits Times (Singapore) wrote:

Mr. Mohamed Zekri Mahjubi [Libya's prosecutor general] told foreign journalists in Tripoli he was seeking to prosecute Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen in Libyan courts for 'war crimes'.
'As Nato secretary general, Rusmussen is responsible for the actions of his organisation which has attacked an unarmed people, killing 1,108 civilians and wounding 4,537 others in bombardment of Tripoli and other cities and villages.'
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_690475.html

 
Maybe Col. Kaddafi and his sons can come to the trial and testify... LOL
   

As for the rest: the only way NATO's involvement and Kaddafi's removal would have took 90 days was if they had the balls to really pick sides, declare war and go all out... their half assed attempt at being half assed is making a bad situation worse.

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Maybe Col. Kaddafi and his sons can come to the trial and testify... LOL

Yeah, that is a joke as Col. Gadhafi and his sons have committed no war crimes.

This sick joke of an illegal war/war crime committed by the U.S. and NATO is based on the premise of an unsubstantiated/unfulfilled threat by Gadhafi to "kill all those who took up arms against the government." This is a quote from Gadhafi whom the U.S., NATO and E.U. consider a "madman." How do you treat what comes out of the mouth of a so-called "madman"?

Do you discount all of it? Treat it all seriously, even though you (the U.S., NATO and E.U.) profess he's "mad"? Or do you cherry pick (to your own advantage?)

Looks to me like this is a case of (self-promoting) cherry picking.

Let's also not forget in the U.S. and NATO's illegal War of Aggression and regime change, the last time they bombed Moammar Gadhafi's home they murdered Moammar's youngest son who studied art at a London (U.K.) university and was not involved in Libyan politics and a number of Moammar's grandchildren who were minors.

Were these people criminals worthy of being murdered by the U.S. and NATO?

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

As for the rest: the only way NATO's involvement and Kaddafi's removal would have took 90 days was if they had the balls to really pick sides, declare war and go all out... their half assed attempt at being half assed is making a bad situation worse.

As you can tell from my comment above, the U.S. and NATO have no legal and moral right to be waging an illegal War of Aggression and regime change in Libya so rather than being a mouthpiece for the War Party and advocate escalating the war against Libya,

America, Canada and NATO countries would be financially and morally better off if they ended the war on Libya and stopped militarily meddling in other countries now and minded their own business.

What goes on in Libya is no one's business but the Libyans.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

From an article in Socialist Worker (US):

Quote:
In the early days of the rebellion, Qaddafi used the ideological framework of the "war on terror" to discredit those who were rising up against his rule, claiming absurdly that al-Qaeda had slipped hallucinogenic drugs into young Libyans' coffee, thereby disorienting them enough to revolt.

In reality, the rebellion in Libya was inspired by the mass democratic revolutions in its two neighbors along the Mediterranean coast, Tunisia and Egypt. In Libya, people fed up with the lack of democracy and profound inequality took to the streets to show their opposition to the status quo - first in the eastern part of the country near the Egyptian border, then spreading toward the capital of Tripoli, before Qaddafi rallied the regime's forces for a counter-offensive.

The reason the uprising in Libya shared so many features of the uprisings in Tunisia, Egypt and elsewhere is because they were all driven by the same underlying conditions of poverty, oppression and political repression.

But to ANSWER, the Libyan rebels were all CIA stooges, motivated not by a desire for freedom and democracy, but to do the bidding of the U.S. and other Western governments.

Of course, there are anti-Qaddafi figures and organizations in Libya with longstanding connections to the U.S., and a number of them are now represented on the Transitional National Council, which has claimed to speak for the whole opposition in Libya. But there are at least as many stories and examples from early on in the rebellion to show the opposite--for example, when rebels promptly evicted British MI6 agents they discovered inside Libya.

One of the primary aims of the Western intervention has been to shift the balance within the opposition to those who can be relied on to protect U.S. and European interests. U.S. officials have actively promoted not only those who were on the CIA payroll for years, but military officials who until just months ago were part of Qaddafi's regime.

The West wants a regime to replace Qaddafi that will be amenable to striking deals with Washington--as well as a reliably pro-U.S. government as a beachhead in the midst of the upheavals in the Arab world. Diplomatic and political attempts to shape the anti-Qaddafi opposition are every bit as important to this goal as the NATO bombing campaign. Opponents of the U.S. war machine must oppose every aspect of Western intervention.

But to claim that the rebellion against Qaddafi was driven by Western influence in the first place is to turn the real history of the uprising upside down. [my emphasis]

[url=http://socialistworker.org/2011/07/12/disservice-to-the-antiwar-fight]A Disservice to the Anti-war Movement[/url]

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

As for the rest: the only way NATO's involvement and Kaddafi's removal would have took 90 days was if they had the balls to really pick sides, declare war and go all out... their half assed attempt at being half assed is making a bad situation worse.



That worked exceptionally well in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here is George announcing the end of the Iraq conflict on May 2, 2003 LESS THAN 90 DAYS after the start of Shock and Awe. I like your rmilitary anaysis better than your jingoism.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

@FS: I was more doing the pot calling the kettle black analogy.

 @NS: NATO could remove Kaddafi in 90 days or less just like the US removed Saddam and the Taliban from power; that is not to say, as we've all seen, the conflict would be over by any means.  

I wasn't implying that any such action was justified, it isn't, I'm just saying they could do it if they really wanted to if they were willing to pay the price for it.

Your analysis of that picture by the way is incorrect: Not to defend Bush, I really don't like to, but the sign was congratulating that aircraft carrier crew on completing their 10 month mission in the middle east, thus the mission completed sign, and if you can stomach reading the real speech he announces the end of the major military operation in Iraq, Operation Iraqi Freedom, which is technically a true statement, not the end of fighting in Iraq. I prefer to bash him for the whole fucking Iraq escapade and view this as nit picking... incorrect nit picking at that.

@M Specter: Great article; It's good to see at least one socialist workers web site got it right. NDPP has posted links from WSW and they seemed to be in the ANSWER camp; the Libyan rebels are CIA goons. If ANSWER is the "head of the anti-war movement in the USA" you can see why they really aren't that popular; it's not that most Americans are pro war; it's just that we can see they're as dumb as the far right idiots.

 

 

Unionist

M. Spector's linked article wrote:
One of the primary aims of the Western intervention has been to shift the balance within the opposition to those who can be relied on to protect U.S. and European interests.

 

Sad to say: Mission accomplished.

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/libya-and-the-united-front.htm... to see the PSL try to distance itself[/url] from the comments of McKinney and others in support of Qaddafi.

PSL is the leading political force behind ANSWER.

I agree with their "points of unity" and with this:  "These points of unity do not require a particular position on Muammar Gaddafi. On the ‘Eyewitness Libya’ tour, some speakers expressed admiration for Gaddafi’s support of the African Union, or the development of the Libyan welfare state. We do not have to have an identical view of Gaddafi to whole-heartedly organize alongside one another."

But I think they are taking a mechanical view of the Libyan opposition by ruling out support for the insurgents simply because (thanks to western intervention) the conservative opposition elements seem to predominate.  "Advocating for the rebels now is advocating for NATO" is wrong in my opinion.

Perhaps they think that leftists should not have advocated in support of the 1905 revolution in Russia, since it was led by bourgeois reformists? That revolution set in motion a process that culminated in the overthrow of bourgeois rule twelve years later.

Should we not support the revolution in Egypt because the bourgeois military has the upper hand at the moment? The revolution continues, and ultimately the current rulers of Egypt will go the way of Mubarak.

 

ETA: Unfortunately, the "points of unity" are obviously cast aside in a [url=http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/new-answer-libya-video.html... being promoted by ANSWER[/url]. The message is clearly one of support for Qaddafi's counter-revolution and the defeat of the rebel forces (which are mechanistically equated with NATO). Good luck building an antiwar coalition with baggage like that!

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

In the Globe and Mail Doug Saunders, evidently more perceptive than the Party for Socialism and Liberation, wrote:

Officially, Libya's rebels are based here in Benghazi, under the umbrella of the National Transitional Council, which is now recognized by Canada and more than 30 other countries as "the legitimate governing authority in Libya." Given that it was created on the fly by a group of university-educated Libyans, lawyers, activists and Gadhafi regime defectors, it is surprisingly professionally run and accountable.

But the problem is that it is only barely in control of the war; it clearly does not represent the full expanse of Libyan opposition; and it is very unlikely to remain a major political body after the war.

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/nato-forces-str...

 

Frmrsldr

M. Spector wrote:

[url=http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/libya-and-the-united-front.htm... to see the PSL try to distance itself[/url] from the comments of McKinney and others in support of Qaddafi.

PSL is the leading political force behind ANSWER.

I agree with their "points of unity" and with this:  "These points of unity do not require a particular position on Muammar Gaddafi. On the ‘Eyewitness Libya’ tour, some speakers expressed admiration for Gaddafi’s support of the African Union, or the development of the Libyan welfare state. We do not have to have an identical view of Gaddafi to whole-heartedly organize alongside one another."

But I think they are taking a mechanical view of the Libyan opposition by ruling out support for the insurgents simply because (thanks to western intervention) the conservative opposition elements seem to predominate.  "Advocating for the rebels now is advocating for NATO" is wrong in my opinion.

Perhaps they think that leftists should not have advocated in support of the 1905 revolution in Russia, since it was led by bourgeois reformists? That revolution set in motion a process that culminated in the overthrow of bourgeois rule twelve years later.

Should we not support the revolution in Egypt because the bourgeois military has the upper hand at the moment? The revolution continues, and ultimately the current rulers of Egypt will go the way of Mubarak.

ETA: Unfortunately, the "points of unity" are obviously cast aside in a [url=http://www.answercoalition.org/national/news/new-answer-libya-video.html... being promoted by ANSWER[/url]. The message is clearly one of support for Qaddafi's counter-revolution and the defeat of the rebel forces (which are mechanistically equated with NATO). Good luck building an antiwar coalition with baggage like that!

So far the arguments of both the political right and left are based on an assumed right or license to interfere either militarily or otherwise in the affairs of other countries.

No such right exists.

We have no right to attack and/or wage a War of Aggression against another country.

We have no right to attempt regime change in another country.

We have no right to choose (for ourselves) a side in a conflict, revolution or civil war (and interfere militarily or otherwise) in another country.

WE have no right to tell (unasked) people what to do and how to run things in THEIR country.

Whether WE consider Mr. Gadhafi a 'good guy' or not should have no bearing on how Libyans see him and what they decide to do with their future.

What goes on in Libya is no one's business but the Libyans.

No one has the right to start pushing them around, interfering in the affairs of their country and telling them what to do.

By whatever name we give it, that's imperialism.

 

NDPP

Britain Recognized NTC in Libya (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/191178.html

Interview with Richard Becker of A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

NATO’s War for the Abaya

For European bankers, it’s a war for Libya’s Gold. For oil corporations, it’s a war for Cheap Crude (now threatening to destroy Libya’s oil infrastructure, just like Iraq). But for Libya’s women, it’s a fierce, knock down battle over the Abaya — an Islamic style of dress that critics say deprives women of self-expression and identity.

Hillary Clinton and President Sarkozy might loath to admit it, but the desire to turn back the clock on women rights in Libya constitutes one of the chief goals for NATO Rebels on the Transitional Council....

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/07/35312/#more-35312

NDPP

Younes Death Halts Momentum For Libya Rebels

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/07/2011728215485843.html

"The death of rebel military commander Abdel Fatah Younes has brought a screeching halt to efforts to organise the makeshift opposition army and risks throwing Benghazi, perhaps the wider effort to oust Gaddafi, into disarray..."

Imperialist Powers Seek Exit From Libyan War

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jul2011/pers-j28.shtml

"The war has never been about protecting civilians. From the time the United Nations legitimised the war with Resolution 1973, the US, Britain and France, operating under the umbrella of the NATO alliance, made no secret that their real agenda was regime change.

Sheer criminality has characterised the efforts of the major powers to achieve this end.

Hundreds if not thousands of Libyan soldiers have been slaughtered by air attacks aimed at decimating Gaddfi's army. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been supplied and special forces, mercenaries and intelligence operations from NATO countries flown in [JTF2] to assist the rebels...

Evidence is mounting that NATO has stepped up deliberate attacks on civilian targets in order to terrorise the population into turning against the regime. The criminal war against Libya has now entered a sordid stage. And end is being sought to a five month operation that has become a debacle and embarrassment for the US and its allies...

The US-NATO war on Libya is a damning exposure of the various pseudo-left and liberal tendancies and individuals who endorsed the intervention with claims it was justified on 'humanitarian' grounds. They have legitimised the deaths of thousands and the devastation of an oppressed land..."

Food Stores Hit [Canadian NATO General Charles 'The Butcher' Bouchard Responsible]

http://www.fides.org/aree/news/newsdet.php?idnews=29561Ian=eng

"They are hitting civilian targets such as food stores. A few days ago NATO warplanes hit a food store just outside Tripoli, which contained oil, pasta, tomato sauce. A river of oil came out of the warehouse which was destroyed. I know they have also hit a social center. By what right does one hit a food center?' Asks the Bishop"...

'Things bad begun make strange themselves by ill' Macbeth  How it was done...

Wikileaks Documents Shed Light on US-Backed Intervention in Libya

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jul2011/wiki-j27.shtml

"US diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks expose some of the real reasons and diplomatic tensions behind NATO's ongoing bombardment of Libya. Far from initiating a 'humanitarian' intervention to protect civilians against Muammar Gaddafi's government, Washington backed the NATO intervention for one reason only - the installation of a regime that better serves the strategic interests of the US, as well as the operations of the giant oil and gas companies..." [also posted in the Canada and Libya thread]

Departures From Protocol At the UN - Sketching Out the New Libya

http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2011/07/departures-from-protocol-at-u...

"The unfolding of the new Libya, and its old colors of monarchy has been painted as the natural triumph of the people's will against a tyrant's rule.

The first and major steps towards enforcing any new Libya - the help of powerful outsiders - looks more like a well planned soft coup than a mass uprising. It originated with Libyans, but only a select few visionary ones operating within Libya, in Paris and especially in New York...

These pioneers worked largely though the United Nations, but in an unusual personal, not national capacity...

This fascinating but ignored line of thought is the cornerstone of an impressive recent article I read and will cite throughout this one: 'The Role of the UN Security Council in Unleashing an Illegal War Against Libya, by Ronda Hauben.."

 

 

NDPP

UK/US Recognised 'Government' Murders Own General  - by Craig Murray

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/07/ukus-recognised-governmen...

"General Abdel Fatah Younis was pleased under arrest by the TNC on allegations of double dealing, and was being brought back to Benghazi under escort, when he and his senior officers were killed - by Gaddafi loyalists claimed the TNC, without any explanation as to how they managed to kill the prisoners without any conflict with their escorts...."

NDPP

Abdul Fatah Younis Killing; War Death or Assassination?  - by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/abdul-fatah-younis-killing-war-death-or-a...

"...The TNC military is in disarray..."

E.P.Houle

http://arabnews.com/economy/article480491.ece

document leak of US corp out sourcing war to Nato

NDPP

Libya: What [Canada's and] America's Media Won't Report  - by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/libya-what-americas-media-wont-report

"'[Canada's and] America's media staunchly back all US imperial wars, regurgitating official lies as truths. Moreover, they never explain their illegality or daily crimes of war and against humanity, against civilians, as well as non-military related infrastructure and other sites...

Nonetheless, America's  [Canadian war-criminal] led Libya war may have backfired..."

 

'A few months ago, no one could have predicted that the Canadian Forces would be flying over the skies of Libya to protect civilians..'  Julian Fantino

"Associate Defence Minister Julian Fantino is travelling around his native land this week talking defence with Italy's secretary of state and Canadian General Charles ['The Butcher'] Bouchard, who is leading NATO's mssion in Libya from Tripani, Italy..."

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/01/f-35s-and-defence-on-fantinos-agend...

 

NDPP

Power Struggle Among Libya Rebels At Root Of Commander's Death

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/power-struggle-...

 

Libya Children Against NATO's 'Humanitarian War'

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25857

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

REPORT FROM LIBYA: IMPACT OF U.S. WAR IN AFRICA

TUESDAY August 9
7:00pm
Vancouver Heritage Hall
3102 Main St. (at 15th Ave.)

A special public event and discussion with Cynthia McKinney, former US Congresswoman for 6 times and Green Party Presidential candidate in 2008. Currently Cynthia is on a 17 city tour across the US, which includes a lone stop in Canada, in Vancouver, to talk about her recent fact finding mission to Libya on the impacts of the US/Canada/NATO War in Libya and Africa. The 17 city tour is organized by the International Action Center ~ IAC ( www.iacenter.org ), with collaboration of Mobilization Against War & Occupation (MAWO) in Vancouver.

For endorsement and sponsorship please email: [email protected]

Join the Facebook event:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=216716838379542&ref=mf

To see the poster:
http://www.mawovancouver.org/materials/posters/110809cynthiamckinneyforum.pdf

 

knownothing knownothing's picture
NDPP

NATO Too Stupid to Face Reality

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/01-08-2011/118630-NATO_too_s...

"For all practical purposes, this National Transitional Council collection of terrorists - paid CIA mercenaries, al Qaeda operatives, islamic extremists, monarchists and traitors - they are through, finished. Their terrorist stooges are done for, kaput, defeated as NATO is defeated.."

And will the Canadian people, once more give their own 'terrorist stooges' such as both the government and opposition, as well as the Canadian general leading this war crime, Lt. Gen Charles 'The Butcher' Bouchard, a free pass on yet another warcrime against yet another Muslim country in order to steal its resources? Alas, it certainly looks that way.

NDPP

Benghazi, The Color Insurrection In Disarray   -  by Thierry Meyssan

http://www.voltairenet.org/Benghazi-the-color-insurrection-in

"As Ramadan kicks off, NATO's military operation in Libya is sinking into total confusion, observes Alexis Crow...Muammar Gaddafi has already defeated NATO air power politically; now he thinks he can also win politically on the ground against the 'rebels'.."

Chavez Wishes Gaddafi Victory

http://www.voltairenet.org/Chavez-wishes-Gaddafi-victory

"I give you a strong hug Muammar, with endless sentiment of brotherly affection. Long live the Libyan people! Long live to you my brother-in-arms. Libya will live and will win.' Chavez read out the his letter to Gaddafi on air on VTV..

 

NDPP

Charges Mount of NATO War Crimes in Libya  - by Patrick Martin

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/liby-a06.shtml

"...The war was launched by the US, France, and Britain on the pretext of defending civilians from the from the regime of Muammar Gaddafi, but NATO warplanes have routinely bombed civilians both in Gaddafi held territory and even in the areas held by NATO backed 'rebels'..."

NDPP

Libya Report Back - Cynthia Mckinney (vid)

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/libya-report-back-nycs-riversid...

Eywitness Libya Tour

NDPP

Canadian Commander of Libyan Campaign Insists He's Not Fighting A 'Stalemate'

http://www2.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=5212894

[Charles 'The Butcher] Bouchard said he's confident NATO will meet its objectives,which include ending violence against civilians..."

And to Prove it:

Fresh NATO Raids Kill 85 Civilians in Libya

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/193106.html

"At least 85 civilians have been killed in the latest NATO airstrikes in Libya near the western city of Zlitan, a Libyan official says. Thirty three children, 32 women and 20 men from 12 families were killed in the 'massacre' Ibrahim added."

This is the second incident in and around Zlitan. Last week NATO attacked a hospital in Zlitan killing seven people.

Canada: See What Your General Charles 'The Butcher' Bouchard has Wrought: (vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Zt18n_Fwo

War Crimes Charges Now!

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