Libya 18

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture
Libya 18

The previous thread - Libya 17 - is over here.

Arundhati Roy wrote:
It now stands. before us on the world's stage in all its brutish, iniquitous nakedness. Empire may well go to war, but it's out in the open now - too ugly to behold its own reflection....

Before September 11th 2001 America had a secret history. Secret especially from its own people. But now America's secrets are history, and its history is public knowledge. It's street talk. Today, we know that every argument that is being used to escalate the war against Iraq is a lie. The most ludicrous of them being the U.S. Government's deep commitment to bring democracy to Iraq. Killing people to save them from dictatorship or ideological corruption is, of course, an old U.S. government sport. Here in Latin America, you know that better than most. Nobody doubts that Saddam Hussein is a ruthless dictator, a murderer (whose worst excesses were supported by the governments of the United States and Great Britain). There's no doubt that Iraqis would be better off without him. But, then, the whole world would be better off without a certain Mr. Bush. In fact, he is far more dangerous than Saddam Hussein. So, should we bomb Bush out of the White House? It's more than clear that Bush is determined to go to war against Iraq, regardless of the facts and regardless of international public opinion.

What can we do? We can hone our memory, we can learn from our history. We can continue to build public opinion until it becomes a deafening roar. ... Our strategy should be not only to confront empire, but to lay siege to it. To deprive it of oxygen. To shame it. To mock it. With our art, our music, our literature, our stubbornness, our joy, our brilliance, our sheer relentlessness - and our ability to tell our own stories. Stories that are different from the ones we're being brainwashed to believe.

The corporate revolution will collapse if we refuse to buy what they are selling - their ideas, their version of history, their wars, their weapons, their notion of inevitability.

Remember this: We be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them. Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.

2003 World Social Forum in Porto Alegre, Brazil

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

WSWS wrote:
from "How the NDP facilitates imperialist war" ...
On several occasions, as we shall also demonstrate, the NDP having supported the CAF's deployment in imperialist wars, subsequently responded to the growth of popular antiwar sentiment by calling for an end to Canadian participation. In so doing, their purpose has been to corral this opposition behind a section of the political establishment and thereby neuter it.

A good read. How the NDP facilitates imperialist war.

 

 

NDPP

'Ma'a as-salaamah Mohammad'...May Allah Protect You'  -  by Franklin Lamb

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Ma-a-as-salaamah-Mohammad-by-Franklin-L...

"Mohammad and I have been secretly sharing my room for more than a week since I accidently discovered him hiding and trembling in the hotel garden's bushes shortly after the rebel entrance into Tripoli..The reason Mohammad was hiding outside the Corinthia Hotel is that he feared for his life as so many, if not most, black Africans and black Libyans (roughly one-third of Libya's population) do these days.

Bands of young rebel 'freedom fighters' are still roaming some of Tripoli's streets, itching it seems, to kill some 'African mercenaries', meaning, it appears, any black man they can find. Although the apparently politically contrived rumours of African mercenaries raping Libyan women, which helped NATO get the UN Security Council to green light its bombing and regime change campaign, have been debunked as false by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and a UN fact-finding group, some of the macho young rebels in Libya still insist the smear campaign is true.."

Fidel

Graham Beverly wrote:
The NDP's positioned dovetailed perfectly with that of the Chretien Liberal government, who viewed the turn to unilateralism on the part of the Bush administration as an undermining of the "multilateral" imperialist institutions, such as the UN and NATO, through which Canada has traditionally sought to pursue its international aims.

He gingerly skirts around the fact that it was Chretien's government who:

1. sent Canadian troops to Afganistan without any need of the NDP's support.

2. The Liberals lied to the NDP and Canada's Parliament when they said they were looking after Omar Khadr's child rights after handing him over to a US Military inquisition at Guantanamo.

And that it was Paul Martin's Librano Government of Canada that backpedaled, stammered, stuttered and lied their way through the NDP's direct questions as to what "new role" Canadian troops would play in Afghanistan after Uncle Sam instructed our corrupt stooges of the day to move Canadian troops from Kabul to Kandahar province. And it was at that point Canadian soldiers started coming home in plastic bags with the effective opposition NDP demanding the troops be withdrawn. 

 And the Liberal Party continues to copy-cat the Harpers on Afghanistan and most every other Warshington-centric foreign policy.

Yes, Graham Beverly, it really is lamentable that the Liberal Party dynasty in Ottawa had to come to end. It goes without saying apparently. The NDP had 21 seats from 1995 to 2000 and were reduced to 13 after 2000. They were hardly needed to prop-up any phony majority Liberal Government of the day. The small number of NDP MPs may have been focused on domestic policies for too long given their relatively small research budgets. But it's not the NDP's fault that the Feds lied to Canadian Parliament several times concerning Afghanistan and about the colonial administrative tasks they were given in secret.

NDPP

John Baird Hints At Libyan Extension

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/08/30/pol-harper-meeting-liby...

"...Pressed again on whether the troops will return to Canada on Sept. 27, Baird reiterated 'the job is not yet done'.

Now that the anti-Gadhafi forces have control of the country, Canada and the other members of the Libya Contact Group are looking to help the NTC set up a democracy.."

NDPP

Press TV London: George Galloway's Real Deal on Libya War  (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/Program/196356.html

Hoodeet

NDPP wrote:

John Baird Hints At Libyan Extension

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/08/30/pol-harper-meeting-liby...

"...Pressed again on whether the troops will return to Canada on Sept. 27, Baird reiterated 'the job is not yet done'.

Now that the anti-Gadhafi forces have control of the country, Canada and the other members of the Libya Contact Group are looking to help the NTC set up a democracy.."

Hoodeet (JW)

This links us directly to the Bouchard war crimes thread.  Baird, Harper et al. are ranking war criminals.

NDPP

Al Qaeda and NATO's Islamic Extremists Taking Over Libya

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28990.htm

"Elements of al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups were known to be key players in the NATO-backed uprising in Libya from the beginning, but now it appears that prominent Jihadists and terrorists are practically leading the revolution with Western support.."

NDPP

Libya's Interim Leaders Reject UN Military Personel

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14726292

"Mr Martin said the UN did expect to be asked to help establish a police force. Mr Martin added that one of the greatest challenges for the UN wold be helping to prepare for democratic elections.."

Watch for Canada to heavily involve themselves in this aspect of configuring the new Western client state..

Hoodeet

Time to free the Khadr brothers? There no longer is any excuse to keep them confined as "dangerous terrorists" now that Canada has signed on to help the jihadists take power in Libya.  Or is Canada (and Europe and the US and the UK) making nice with the jihadists abroad (the way the House of Saud does) to keep them from making mischief over here and to sweeten the deal in Afpak?

You know, give them a whole country in exchange for peace in Afpak...

 

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Hoodeet, I know it's work but unless YOU are Max Forte then you should put the effort into making selective quotes from the article and not just pasting the whole damn thing into a thread. thxbye.

P.S. Number 10 is outstanding and I'm cool with you quoting that in its entirety. Foot in mouth

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

 I quote things here on babble a paragraph at a time, then type a few words about what I think it means, another paragraph or two, and so on. If you're really unwilling to do that, or something like that, then find one favourite quote and give a link to the rest of the article. For me, I like to show that I really have read the whole article, understood it, am willing to venture an opinion on its most important point, and maybe even develop an idea of the author, etc.

Hoodeet

Hoodeet wrote:

from

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/31/the-top-ten-myths-in-the-war-against-libya/

 August 31, 2011

A Victory for the Libyan People?

The Top Ten Myths in the War Against Libya

by MAXIMILIAN C. FORTE

......citing main points from a very long piece:

These top ten myths are some of the most repeated claims, by the insurgents, and/or by NATO, European leaders, the Obama administration, the mainstream media, and even the so-called "International Criminal Court"-the main actors speaking in the war against Libya. In turn, we look at some of the reasons why these claims are better seen as imperial folklore, as the myths that supported the broadest of all myths-that this war is a "humanitarian intervention," one designed to "protect civilians". Again, the importance of these myths lies in their wide reproduction, with little question, and to deadly effect. In addition, they threaten to severely distort the ideals of human rights and their future invocation, as well aiding in the continued militarization of Western culture and society.

1. Genocide.

2. Gaddafi is "bombing his own people".

3. Save Benghazi.

4.  African mercenaries.

5. Viagra-fueled Mass Rape.

6. Demonization of Ghaddafi.

7.  Responsibility to Protect (R2P).

8.  Freedom Fighters-the Angels.

9. A victory for the Libyan people.

10. Defeat for "the Left".

Maximilian Forte is an associate professor in the Department of Sociology and Anthropology at Concordia University in Montreal, Canada. His website can be found at http://openanthropology.org/ as can his previous articles on Libya and other facets of imperialism.

Hoodeet (JW)

Hoodeet
Hoodeet

Point well taken - it ws awfully long. 

I'm replacing it with the hyperlink and headings.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

clap clap

Manic Wombat Manic Wombat's picture

Thank you, Hoodeet. That was a fantastically well written piece.

I will say... anecdotally my "left" friends and the ones who have at their core, altruistic, egalitarian values, have all bought into the CNN propaganda and have been supporting this intervention or are unsure. How difficult is it to be against these military hi jinx ... why is it SO easy for the elites to manipulate public opinion with VERY halfassed propaganda.

Maybe it's just Victoria. Maybe I need to make some new friends. Wink

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Forte's Concordia colleague Frank Chalk has made a career for himself arguing for the imperialist nations to intervene anywhere in the world (other than, of course, the imperialist metropolises and their direct colonies) to protect civilians against perceived atrocities. He was a major cheerleader for the NATO intervention in Libya.

And now [url=http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/street-cred/2011/08/mobilizing-will-inte... has shamefully given this imperialist shill a podium[/url] by posting a podcast puff-piece interview with him. Don't bother listening to it. It's crap.

And remember what they spend it on the next time rabble asks you for money.

Hoodeet

That is chilling.  Newspeak everywhere. 

Fidel

Pro-Al Qaeda brigades control Qaddafi Tripoli strongholds seized by rebels

Quote:
Al Qaeda-linked Libyan Islamic Fighting Group - LIFG, are in control of the former strongholds of Muammar Qaddafi captured by Libyan rebels last Sunday, Aug. 21, DEBKAfile reports from sources in Libya. They are fighting under the command of Abd Al-Hakim Belhadj, an al Qaeda veteran from Afghanistan whom the CIA captured in Malaysia in 2003 and extradited six years later to Libya where Qaddafi held him in prison.
Belhadj is on record as rejecting any political form of coexistence with the Crusaders excepting jihad.

And all the better to continuing waging a phony war on terror. 

al-Qa'eda = al-CIA'duh BFF

Or maybe that should be BBFF - best bosom friends forever.

Frmrsldr

Maximilian C. Forte in "The Top Ten Myths in the War Against Libya wrote:

NATO admitted to deliberately targeting Libya's state television, killing three civilian reporters, in a move condemned by international journalist federations as a direct violation of a 2006 Security Council resolution banning attacks on journalists. A U.S. Apache helicopter-in a repeat of the infamous killings shown in the Collateral Murder video-gunned down civilians in the central square of Zawiya, killing the brother of the information minister among others. Taking a fairly liberal notion of what constitutes "command and control facilities," NATO targeted a civilian residential space resulting in the deaths of some of Gaddafi's family members, including three grandchildren. As if to protect the myth of "protecting civilians" and the unconscionable contradiction of a "war for human rights," the major news media often kept silent about civilian deaths caused by NATO bombardments. R2P has been invisible when it comes to civilians targeted by NATO.

I don't know how journalists (even today) can say we are protecting civilians in Libya with a straight face.

M. Spector wrote:

Forte's Concordia colleague Frank Chalk has made a career for himself arguing for the imperialist nations to intervene anywhere in the world (other than, of course, the imperialist metropolises and their direct colonies) to protect civilians against perceived atrocities. He was a major cheerleader for the NATO intervention in Libya.

And now [url=http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/street-cred/2011/08/mobilizing-will-inte... has shamefully given this imperialist shill a podium[/url] by posting a podcast puff-piece interview with him. Don't bother listening to it. It's crap.

And remember what they spend it on the next time rabble asks you for money.

Yeah, when I saw that I asked myself the same question.

WTF?

 

Frmrsldr

Fidel wrote:

al-Qa'eda = al-CIA'duh BFF

Or maybe that should be BBFF - best bosom friends forever.

Until it's no longer politically expedient to support then anymore.

Like Manuel Noriega, Afghanistan's Taliban government up to the first week in September of 2001, Saddam Hussein and (until as recently as early February) Moammar Gadhafi himself.

Fidel

Yes, well, it appears US taxpayers were funding the Taliban since at least 1992. The Taliban has been funded by the west throughout the 2000s and even now. Of course, the Taliban say that their greatest source of funding has been their Muslim brothers in the UK and so on. The Taliban are a very secretive bunch as well and probably better off pretending that they oppose their like-minded right wing extremist friends in western governments sooner than negotiate an end to this phony war on terror. They know that when US funding and covert support finally does come to an end, so will their power and influence over millions of ordinary Afghans. The CIA and MI6 need the Taliban and the most ruthless of warlords since the 1980s, and it's because their Anglo-American backers know full well Afghan warlords and gun-running, drug trafficking fundies have little real support among the Afghan people and thereby exert some control and influence over these tyrants and religious charlatans. When the money and war dry up, the Taliban will have to revert to being supported by the ISI and Pakistan with the CIA funnelling covert financing to them as before. But through phony war, it's all out in the open while grinding poverty,death and gross human rights violations reign merrily. Democracy prevention is their game.

I think the plan is to keep Afghan dope flowing steadily to the processing labs in Pakistan. Through their Qaeda-friendly pals in Kosovo and Albanian mafia they distribute the dope to points westward in Europe and the States. And these illegal activities would be a lot more difficult without the cover of dirty war and phony baloney war on terror. Malalai Joya quoted an Afghan Government report two years ago that 80% of the drugs shipped out of Afghanistan are flown out by US aviators and sounding a lot like Air America is still in business after all these years. The Rooskies have accused the NATO gang of effecting the dumping of hashish on Russian city streets as a result of the military occupation. Historians have described how British Tea Company imperialists used the opium trade to subjugate a population in China to British rule long time.

According to historian Alfred McCoy and others, their covert dope dealing is worth several hundred billion a year and what not a better way of providing covert financing to crooked banks on Wall Street, London etc. They just don't want to quit the dope dealing and the running guns, oil thefts etc anytime soon. There is no world recession as far as insiders to it all are concerned. 

NDPP

Secret Files: US Officials Aided Gaddafi (and vid)

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/08/201183115125872874...

"I found what appeared to be minutes of a meeting between senior Libyan officials - Abubakr Alzleitiny and Mohammed Ahmed Ismail - and David Welch, former secretary of state under George Bush. Welch was the man who brokered the deal to restore diplomatic relations between the US and Libya in 2008.

Welch now works for Bechtel, a multinational American company with billion dollar deals across the Middle East. The documents record that, on August 2, 2011, David Welch met with Gaddafi's officials at the Four Seasons Hotel in Cairo, just a few blocks from the US embassy. During that meeting Welch advised Gaddafi's team on how to win the propaganda war, suggesting several 'confidence-building measure,' according to the documents. The documents appear to indicate that an influential US political personality was advising Gaddafi on how to beat the US and NATO.

Minutes of this meeting record his advice on how to undermine Libya's rebel movement, with the potential assistance of foreign intelligence agencies,

including Israel..."

Good cop/bad cop America plays both ends against the middle - their dirty double-gaming is nothing new. Remember April Glaspie?

NDPP

Russia Recognizes Libya's National Transitional Council (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/russia-recognize-transitional-council-585/

"Russia has recognized Libya's National Transitional Council as the legitimate governing authority of Libya. Speaking shortly after the announcement, Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, said Russia had not wanted Gaddafi to remain in power, but opposed NATO's methods of removing him..."

 

Muammar Gaddafi Reportedly Denied Refuge in Algeria

http://rt.com/news/line/2011-09-01/#id17377

"Fugitive Libya leader Muammar Gaddafi has been denied political refuge in Algeria, the RIA Novosti news agency reported..."

NDPP

It's an atrocious understatement. The rebels are NATO's ground forces - along with their advisory teams from SAS, JTF2? et al. What appalls me as much as NATO's actions in Libya, is the virtually complete lockdown of mudstream media criticism here and lack of public protest. That's why I keep shoving NATO's Canadian commander, Lt Gen Charles Bouchard's name up every chance I get. Because I think Canucklheads and especially the ahem 'progressive' element, has basically abandoned the field on this. I blame the influence of the NDP in turning the antiwar movement to mush, but whatever the cause - it's beyond belief the acquiesence to this war. People need to go back and actually read the materials posted from the beginning. It is now obvious that the bloody conspiracy to replace the Gaddafi regime was hatched far in advance of last Spring - just like Iraq.

NDPP

British Forces in Libya to Hunt Gaddafi'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196818.html

"Britain's Special Air Service (SAS) officers are in Libya to search for the fugitive ruler Muammar Gaddafi as his son, Seif-al-Islam pledges to continue fighting, a report says.."

 

'Gaddafi's Foreign Minister Arrested'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196794.html

"Libyan revolutionary forces say they have arrested Abdelati-al-Obeidi, the foreign minister who was a key figure in the regime of the country's fugitive ruler Muammar Gaddafi.."

Frmrsldr

This should come as no surprize NDPP my friend,

NATO Still Bombing Libya

Jason Ditz wrote:

The air strikes, centering around the city of Sirte, are coming in spite of the city having seemingly no air defenses, and are targeting the city's defenders, apparently helping the rebels poised to attack a city that is staunchly pro-Gadhafi.

This is the latest in a growing number of incidents where, despite claims of being a "neutral" force in the Libyan Civil War, NATO is clearly backing the rebels' offensives, even if it poses a threat to the civilian population.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/08/31/nato-still-bombing-libya/

Bolding and italics not in original.

A_J

 

NDPP wrote:

Russia Recognizes Libya's National Transitional Council (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/russia-recognize-transitional-council-585/

I guess that means we'll soon see RT making a 180 turn away from its previous staunchly pro-Gaddafi position.

NDPP wrote:

Secret Files: US Officials Aided Gaddafi (and vid)

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/08/201183115125872874...

Interesting article:

AJE wrote:

It appears Welch was not the only prominent American giving help to Gaddafi as NATO and the rebel army were locked in battle with his regime.

On the floor of the intelligence chief's office lay an envelope addressed to Gaddafi's son Saif Al-Islam. Inside, I found what appears to be a summary of a conversation between US congressman Denis Kucinich, who publicly opposed US policy on Libya, and an intermediary for the Libyan leader's son.

It details a request by the congressman for information he needed to lobby US lawmakers to suspend their support for the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) and to put an end to NATO airstrikes. 

According to the document, Kucinich wanted evidence of corruption within the NTC and, like Welch, any possible links within rebel ranks to al-Qaeda.

The document also lists specific information needed to defend Saif Al-Islam, who is currently on the International Criminal Court's most-wanted list.

I've found it fascinating how well tuned the Gaddafi regime has been to the propaganda aspect of this conflict and the effort (and skill) put into trying to manage the message in their favour.  They know exactly the message they need to get out and who can help them - folks like Kucinich, and self-proclaimed "independant journalists" (who actually work for RT, PressTV or Mathaba itself) who are prepared to help disseminate the regime's propaganda.  Granted, it hasn't helped the regime save itself, but it seems to at least have worked in planting the seeds of doubt or distrust in certain quarters.

 

Frmrsldr

A_J wrote:

 

AJE wrote:

It appears Welch was not the only prominent American giving help to Gaddafi as NATO and the rebel army were locked in battle with his regime.

On the floor of the intelligence chief's office lay an envelope addressed to Gaddafi's son Saif Al-Islam. Inside, I found what appears to be a summary of a conversation between US congressman Denis Kucinich, who publicly opposed US policy on Libya, and an intermediary for the Libyan leader's son.

It details a request by the congressman for information he needed to lobby US lawmakers to suspend their support for the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) and to put an end to NATO airstrikes. 

According to the document, Kucinich wanted evidence of corruption within the NTC and, like Welch, any possible links within rebel ranks to al-Qaeda.

The document also lists specific information needed to defend Saif Al-Islam, who is currently on the International Criminal Court's most-wanted list.

I've found it fascinating how well tuned the Gaddafi regime has been to the propaganda aspect of this conflict and the effort (and skill) put into trying to manage the message in their favour.  They know exactly the message they need to get out and who can help them - folks like Kucinich, and self-proclaimed "independant journalists" (who actually work for RT, PressTV or Mathaba itself) who are prepared to help disseminate the regime's propaganda.  Granted, it hasn't helped the regime save itself, but it seems to at least have worked in planting the seeds of doubt or distrust in certain quarters.

Just like Vietnam.

Everyone who either opposed the war

or supported Ho Chi Minh and North Vietnam

was either suspected or branded a communist or suspected or branded a "pinko", a "travelling companion" or communist sympathizer.

What next?

Is every one of them going to be monitored and have their phones tapped by the FBI and CIA and their files kept in Washington, D.C. or Langley, VA?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

A_J wrote:

I guess that means we'll soon see RT making a 180 turn away from its previous staunchly pro-Gaddafi position

Um, yes, just like your friend Barack Obama after 2009.

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2603eyw.jpg[/IMG]

NDPP

The point surely is that yet again, a country has been invaded, occupied and despoiled by foreign powers. Led by a Canadian General - with men, women and children, innocent civilians, mass murdered, and their eminently viable national infrastructure, reduced to a bombed out shithouse and a shambles, the West's proxy pirates, as planned, now deliver the country's natural resources, to further enrich greedy, western corporate cannibals. Libyans are bereft and beggared, and our common enemies grow stronger.

That this has been 'sold' to, and bought by, those who consider themselves 'progressives', aided and abetted by a supposedly social democratic, 'official opposition' party, after first reversing  a longstanding and principled position against Canadian membership in this awful NATO alliance, should rightfully trigger great alarm. Instead legions of supposedly rational minds cheerlead this appalling and atrocious crime. Iraq, Afghanistan and now Libya. Except with Libya, there is barely a whiff of public outrage.

With the ghastly, barefaced success of the imperalist  precedent of Libya, almost totally unprotested here, rest assurred the powers that be have taken notice. That it is a Canadian mass-murdering war criminal leading this latest atrocity, with no critical comment in our media or resistance by the citizenry, tells me that the darkness that has been steadily descending upon us for the last ten years, is thickening.

NDPP

NATO'S Deceitful Libya War of Aggression and Meaning for Africa  -  by Colin Benjamin

http://www.blackstarnews.com/news/135/ARTICLE/7610/2011-08-31.html

"Since last week, Western leaders, NATO - and their friends in the puppet propaganda press, sometimes referred to as 'mainstream' media - have been celebrating the usurpation of Libya into the hands of the armed insurrectionist 'rebels'..."

 

Harper Touts Canada's Role in Libya

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/01/pol-harper-libya-future...

"Harper was at an air force base in Trapani, Italy where he spoke to [the war criminals and] personnel taking part in the NATO-led Libya mission on Thursday.

'In the job of neutralizing Gadhafi, Canada played a part well out of proportion,' he said...Because you held the ring while Libyans fought their own fight with their oppressor, the Libyan people are now free to choose. This is the best of Canada's military tradition.

As we look ahead, we presume no right to tell Libyans how they should govern themselves,'"

POV QUESTION: DO YOU SUPPORT AN EXTENSION OF THE LIBYAN MISSION? Please vote no

contrarianna

Fidel wrote:

Yes, Graham Beverly, it really is lamentable that the Liberal Party dynasty in Ottawa had to come to end....

Your "red herring" is so dead as to paralyze any reader with its odor.

If you are going to propagandize for your Party, you should understand that anyone capable of reading your words would find them absurd:

As if Beverly, the apparent Trotskyist, was in any way defending the execrable Liberal imperial policies which its successor, the NDP, is now at pains to emulate!

The article itself has errors and is doctrinally prickly, but is a good introduction to the what the NDP now represents in foreign policy.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/cndp-a25.shtml

Hoodeet

Not to derail the thread (because I think this  is related to our Excellent Adventure in Libya):   it appears that Canada is about to establish a military base in Senegal.  Any news of this in the anglophone press?  I read it on rebelion.org in Spanish. 

Althought its stated purpose would be the fight against terrorism and support of democratic regimes, I assume its main purpose would in reality be to provide support for mining enterprises.

So typical of Liberals and Conservatives alike: cultivate la Francophonie as a feel-good cultural network when in reality it's a vehicle for the neutralization and penetration of Francophone ex-colonies... 

Do post any information on this latest development, whoever has it.

 

 

Hoodeet

On another equally revolting topic:  CBC coverage. 

  I'd been staying away from CBC news because everyone there seemed to be engaged in a riley gloat-fest, and when I finally tuned back in, this afternoon, Newsworld still had some of the poorest --and nastiest-- reporting.  What is the matter with Sue Ormiston?  She was gloating snidely with pleasure and utter sleaze and practically rubbing herself against items that had been taken out of the Ghaddafi family home.  I used to have some respect for her but I think perhaps orders have come from above for correspondents to abase themselves and pretend they're working for Murdoch because CBC is training to compete with Fox. Or are they all seeing the writing on the wall at CBC and auditioning for Fox?

Merowe

What utter bullshit. Gaddafi's 'propaganda' - ie the regime's side of the story - has been virtually shut out of the msm as it debases itself to perform its sordid function in the  totalitarian western regimes of selling yet another bloody war for someone else's resources to the increasingly stupefied masses. ALL off-message reports - such as the killing of black African 'mercenaries' by rebel forces - are systematically repressed with an efficiency that would make Goebbels wet himself.

As you model Kucinich - a rare voice of sanity in a political landscape increasingly dominated by dangerous lunatics like Bachmann - as Gaddafi's tool you climb into bed with Sarkozy, Harper, Cameron and other bloodthirsty mental cripples.

As for 'planting the seeds of doubt' - for any who still aspire to objectivity, such seeds form the substance of the Libyan debacle, they lay ankle-deep across its bombed and bloody earth and want only to be noticed by those propagandized fools too transfixed by the televisual spectacle to notice the very ground beneath their feet.

(editted to add, above post in reference to A_J above, obviously)

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has released the following information

"Since the beginning of the NATO operation (31 March 2011, 06.00GMT) a total of 21,090 sorties, including 7,920 strike sorties, have been conducted.

For complete report click below

http://www.nato.int/nato_static/assets/pdf/pdf_2011_09/20110901_110901-oup-update.pdf

WilderMore

Gadhafi = Sexist (well, you probably already assumed that, what with his harem and female groupies, but this proves it)

TRIPOLI—Moammar Gadhafi warned from hiding Thursday that tribes loyal to him were well-armed and preparing for battle, hours after rebels hoping for a peaceful surrender extended the deadline for loyalist forces to give up in the longtime Libyan leader’s hometown.

 

Gadhafi’s audio statement, broadcast by Syrian-based Al-Rai TV, came as the rebels said they were closing in on the former dictator.

 

“We won’t surrender again; we are not women, we will keep fighting,” Gadhafi said. His voice was recognizable, and Al-Rai has previously broadcast several statements by Gadhafi and his sons.

 

Rebels have been hunting for the Libyan leader since he was forced into hiding after they swept into Tripoli on Aug. 20 and gained control of most of the capital after days of fierce fighting.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1047817--we-won-t-surrender-ag...

 

 

Fidel

contrarianna wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Yes, Graham Beverly, it really is lamentable that the Liberal Party dynasty in Ottawa had to come to end....

Your "red herring" is so dead as to paralyze any reader with its odor.

If you are going to propagandize for your Party, you should understand that anyone capable of reading your words would find them absurd:

As if Beverly, the apparent Trotskyist, was in any way defending the execrable Liberal imperial policies which its successor, the NDP, is now at pains to emulate!

The article itself has errors and is doctrinally prickly, but is a good introduction to the what the NDP now represents in foreign policy.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/cndp-a25.shtml

 

Yes, well, Graham Beverly saves all his venom for the NDP and makes it sounds as though this party has been rubberstamping Liberal and Tory policies for toadying to the U.S. and NATO all along. And that's not true.

Beverly seems to be aware of the phony war on terror today. But can anyone show us an essay by Beverly dated 1999 that shows he was fully aware that the Clinton administration and British were funding and training and protecting Elvis bin Laden's al-Qa'eda in 1990s Bosnia? And if Beverly was sure of it following his own gut instinct and intuition, then why he not share it with the rest of us then when the timing was  so much more important for the anti-war movement?

Where is Beverly's 20-20 vision in 2001 showing he was aware 9/11 was an inside job from the start and ruse to launch ten years worth of liquid global war based on a lie? Because most western world and Asian countries' politicians were convinced then that 9/11 was perpetrated by a real terrorist organization labelled simply "al-Qa'eda" as per the fascist countries' description of their "freedom fighters" and mercenary leftovers from CIA's anti-communist jihad in 1980s-90s Central Asia. 

Similarly the effective opposition party then did not have the same research budget enjoyed by the governing Liberals. The few NDP MPs then believed like everyone else in the world did then that a handful of radicals and amateur Cessna pilots managed to out-wit a $40 billion dollar a year intelligence agency when they dominated NORAD airspace for two painfully long hours on 9/11/01. Because that's the bs fairy tale that crazy George II's government pawned off on the rest of the world. In fact, very many people still want to believe it!

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

M. Spector wrote:

A_J wrote:

I guess that means we'll soon see RT making a 180 turn away from its previous staunchly pro-Gaddafi position

Um, yes, just like your friend Barack Obama after 2009.

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2603eyw.jpg[/IMG]

Baaah, just becouse people shake hands in world politics don't mean crap. 

  

On a side note: Is it me or does Kaddafi always seem to look stoned all the time?Cool I bet the rebels found a pantry full of Doritos chips in his house.  If I didn't know who he was I'd said he was some kind of rock and roll party animal.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

It's not such a stretch. The late Freddy Mercury was born in Stone Town, Zanzibar.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Contrary to those who glibly and falsely assert that the Libyan uprising was a CIA/Al Qaeda plot from Day One, [url=http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2862816.html]Richard Seymour[/url] maintains that the rebellion sprang from grassroots discontent, but when Qaddafi escalated the conflict to all-out civil war the rebel movement was quickly superseded by a relatively small military force led by those who had the resources required to respond to the Libyan army's attacks. Even then, however, the anti-Qaddafi forces were by no means united in support of NATO intervention.

Quote:
Long before Western politicians and intellectuals extricated themselves from their embrace of the Gaddafi regime, and particularly his adorable sons whom they greatly admired, Libyans were embarking on the process of regime change independently of Washington.

There had been protest developing over matters such as housing, as well as a developing current of human rights dissent. It was not well-developed or institutionalised, as Gaddafi did not even tolerate the most rudimentary forms of civil society opposition that were able to develop under Mubarak's regime.

Only once, in the early 1990s, did Gaddafi consider experimenting with liberalisation - but the instability erupting in neighbouring Algeria instantly warned him off it....

Yet, by February this year, there had been successful revolutions in the hitherto stable states of Egypt and Tunisia. As a result, the rebellion that began on February 17 didn't simply melt away at the first sign of brutality. It spread with a rapidity that evidently rattled the dictatorship.

The regime, evidently calculating that its greatest advantage lay in military supremacy, forced a war on the opposition. Even as it did so, using air power, machine guns and tanks to extirpate the rebellion, splits from within the regime and the armed forces enabled the revolt to spread and capture more of Libyan territory. For the first two weeks, it looked as if Gaddafi was a doomed man.

To give political expression to this revolt, people's committees arose across Libya. But the movement lacked the institutional structures, the centralised organisation, that was needed to defeat a well-organised army. In this situation, the vacuum was necessarily filled by people who were already well-situated and well-resourced – businessmen, military leaders, professionals, and defecting politicians. Thus, the National Transitional Council was formed.

This post continues below...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

 

Quote:
The council was in theory supposed to be a national, representative body. Yet from early on it lacked authority beyond some strongholds such as Benghazi. Delegates that were expected to arrive never did. And there were the beginnings of fratricidal in-fighting. Somewhat more ominously, rumours were being spread by the opposition that Gaddafi was using 'African mercenaries' (Libya is an African country – in this context, 'African' means black). The claims, as Amnesty International's Donatella Rivera pointed out, were unfounded....

In the face of a resurgence on the part of the regime, some elements in the opposition leadership also began to look to an alliance with external powers. Figures such as Ibrahim Dabbashi and General Abdul Fatah Younis, both defectors from the regime, were early supporters of some form of intervention. Initially, such voices were isolated. Other leading figures in the rebellion such as Abdul Hafiz Ghoga outright opposed intervention. Posters appeared on walls in Benghazi pleading for no intervention.

Yet, as the defeats racked up, the logic of seeking external protection became more appealing. Some rebel elements believed that a defeat would result in massacres. The head of the Transitional Council and former minister of justice Mustafa Abdul Jalil asserted that if Gaddafi took Benghazi, "half a million" would die. This was implausible. The scale of recorded deaths at that point was far from a genocidal massacre....

Weeks before a UN resolution endorsing NATO action was passed, intelligence and special forces units belonging to external powers such as Britain were already liaising with rebel units in Libya. And the leadership of the rebel army changed, as General Younis was replaced by a former Gaddafi ally named Khalifa Hifter, who had lived in Virginia for the previous 20 years.

Soon, as NATO bombing began, it was external powers who were dictating the pace of the opposition's assault. They were also dictating how soon and under what conditions the transitional council could gain recognition as the legitimate government of Libya, begin trading oil, and procure weapons. Yet, this still solved a number of problems for the Transitional Council, both protecting them from their spurned ruler and strengthening their hand within the opposition. From being a fractious opposition group lacking national authority and facing defeat, they became an internationally recognised government with material advantages and international force backing them up. Today they are victorious.

However, lurking in this apparent triumph is a defeat of sorts – not for the opposition leadership, but for the original revolutionary upsurge. From being a movement of millions, with untold possibilities, it became a war fought by only a few tens of thousands of soldiers under the command of a relatively conservative elite, many of whom had profited under Gaddafi.

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:

Contrary to those who glibly and falsely assert that the Libyan uprising was a CIA/Al Qaeda plot from Day One, [url=http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2862816.html]Richard Seymour[/url] maintains that the rebellion sprang from grassroots discontent, but when Qaddafi escalated the conflict to all-out civil war the rebel movement was quickly superseded by a relatively small military force led by those who had the resources required to respond to the Libyan army's attacks. Even then, however, the anti-Qaddafi forces were by no means united in support of NATO intervention.

The PNAC cabal wanted to launch a crusade into Afghanistan, Central Asia, Iraq and "Middle East" in Halford Mackinderan-Z-biggy Brzezinskian form for a long time. And they knew from first-hand experience how their Washington consensus for neoliberal economic reforms turned Yugoslavia's economy upside down and created ethnic tensions which were mostly non-existent to dormant since Tito's time.

And today they know full well that Greeks and Icelanders and Spaniards, Brits and Egyptians are not keen on austerity. They can not suggest to any nation of people that they must be made to suffer poverty and reduced standards of living for their own good or the good of the economy under auspices of austerity. It's difficult for people to understand that the what the economic hit men are doing to them is for their own good same as those ethnic groups in the former Yugoslavia where ethnic tensions arose as a result of soaring unemployment and skyrocketing debts owed to the IMF and the bankster oligarchy.

Neoliberalism is economic warfare. It's a deliberate attempt to destroy productive labour economies while countries attempt to live on credit and "foreign investment". Eventually a group of parasitic bankers will come calling and with "North Atlantic" Treaty Org gladios in tow.

Richard Seymour wrote:

Only once, in the early 1990s, did Gaddafi consider experimenting with liberalisation - but the instability erupting in neighbouring Algeria instantly warned him off it....

Well that's not true either. The very neoliberal IMF praised Gadaffi's Libya up and down for its "ambitious reform agenda" as recently as February 9th. And by June the very al-Qa'eda linked LIFG "rebels" were given a clean slate by the Gladio Gang. LIFG was a CIA front outfit in Libya years ago. A lot of them fought for the CIA in 1980s and 90s Afghanistan. The very CIA-MI6 friendly LIFG and their Qaeda friends have been trying to bump off Gadaffi since the mid 90s.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Thanks for the link and artical M. Spector.

You know, come to think about it, my country, the USA, won its independence because of outside foreign intervention in its revolution (technically a civil war between American royalists and rich landowners): France intervened at the request of the "rebels". The French army, which outnumbered the Americans at Yorktown, did allot of the heavy lifting at and around Yorktown; especially when it came to artillery. France's navy drove off the British relief fleet outside the Chesapeake Bay and thus sealed Cornwallis's fate at Yorktown. Could we have won without their help? We'll never know.

That is not to say it justifies what happened in Libya now; I'm just pointing out that small similarity.

 

Frmrsldr
Fidel

Who could resist dollar a barrel oil sitting there in Africa and without so much as a single nuclear weapon of mass destruction defending it?

A: Not blood for oil terrorists.

NDPP

'Friends of Libya'... (and vid)

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/09/20119119919614337.html

with 'friends' like these...

 

Gaddafi's Libya as Demon  - by Diana Johnstone

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/08/31/gaddafis-libya-as-demon/

"...We in the West have neither the right nor the ability to 'fix' those unfamiliar societies such as Libya which we dismiss as 'dictatorships'. As the financial crisis threaten to bring living standards in much of the West behind what they were in Gaddafi's Libya before NATO intervened there, our Western 'democracy' is in danger of being gradually reduced to a mere ideological excuse to attack, ravage and pillage other people's countries."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Frmrsldr wrote:

It's all about the crude, dude!

You mean the crude they are going to sell on the world market at world market prices set by the world market supply and demand to whom ever can afford it?

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Frmrsldr wrote:

It's all about the crude, dude!

You mean the crude they are going to sell on the world market at world market prices set by the world market supply and demand to whom ever can afford it?

Western oil companies were there doing business with Gadaffi in power before they handed the country over to al-Qaeda terrorists.

What you really mean is that western oil monopolists won't have to share the oil profits with so many ordinary Libyans now that their LIFG terrorist friends and Qaeda will be running the country on their behalf. So it's not a real free market. That's just their imperialist-fascist world view distorting your outlook on things in general. But that's okay,  we know what you meant to say.

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