Libya 18

120 posts / 0 new
Last post
Noah_Scape

  The NATO nations claim they want freedom for the Libyan people. The ultimate test of sincerity for that sentiment would be to see how they would react to the new Libyan government creating their own currency, as Gadaffi had suggested, in "Gold Dinars".

  Such a move would not only test western power's sincerity, but it could possibly bring prosperity to all of Africa.

   The USA benefits with every barrel of oil traded in US dollars. Western nations have been enjoying the economic benefits of global hegemony of the US Dollar, and much of those benefits would be lost if the Gold Dinar were established. Gulf states could ask to be paid in Gold, and the USA could not afford it.

  Q: What would be the effect on Canada if Gulf oil were traded in Gold Dinars, or Euros? If our standard of living were to go down significantly due to the creation of Gold Dinars, would you, would I, still support Libyan freedom?

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

  

So the USA is sort of like a Cabal of nations and corporations then, not an empire. That sounds more like it.

 

  

@Noah_Scape: sure and the USA and everyone else could demand Gold Dinar states pay for food in gold.

 

The sword swings and cuts both ways...

NDPP

Gaddafi is in Libya: Spokesman

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/197807.html

"The spokesman for Libyan fugitive ruler Muammar Gaddafi has said that Gaddafi is still in his homeland, denying information about a convoy of army vehicles that have reportedly crossed into Niger.."

NDPP

Revolt In Libya: A Message to Chavez  -  by Nil Nikandrov

http://www.voltairenet.org/Revolt-In-Libya-a-Message-to

"The foray against the Venezuelan Embassy in Tripoli at the hands of the National Transitional Council was meant to send President Chavez a clear message. He, too, can be overthrown by Western powers. Hence, Caracas is carefully examining the way in which the Libya Arab Jamahiriya was first strangled financially, in an effort to avoid falling prey to a similar maneuver..."

DaveW

since this thread is winding up (down?),

I guess we can just make our conclusions unanimous, along w. Nick Kristof, who at least has the benefit of talking to actual Libyans:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/opinion/kristof-from-libyans-thank-you...

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I think some here would claim he talked with the wrong Liybans.

DaveW
Hoodeet

Bully for him.  So glad he's free and being a poster child for the intervention.

What about the complete silence around the fate of female soldiers and guards from the Ghaddafi elite units?  Where are they?  How safe are they from the fundamentalists and other degenerates who've already looted the weapons and documents?

What about the REAL statistics on the torture and killing of Blacks AND on the scope of the destruction of infrastructure AND on the deaths of non-combatants.

Yes, I know.  You NATO cheerleaders and Amy Goodman (who has gone really weird on Libya) will trot out the collaboration between CIA, MI 6 and the Libyan security people.  Rendition was a handy instrument for both sides.  Period.  Common enemy.  Same with Egypt, Uzbekhistan and other western stooges or allies.  Now those victims are in charge, like Belhajj, who is the military chief --trained in Afghanistan, AlCIAda-linked.  They've "denounced terrorism and their former link to Al-CIAda" and promised to respect human rights. I'm just quoting from the  HRW spokesman, the only source Amy seems to want to listen to right now. 

In the current discourse, via rabble and democracynow, extraordinary rendition eclipses African sovereignty and development and the dignity and independence and social welfare of Libyan people.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

So how many civilian deaths are acceptable in a humanitarian mission.  The low estimates are at least 60,000 people have died in this little intervention. Why are their lives expendable?  Why are Libyans who live in towns where many people support Gaddafi being bombed day and night by NATO.  That is the type of violence the no-fly zone was put in place to prevent.  Did the UN say that only people who live in rebel held towns should be protected and the rest of the civilians can be bombed indiscriminately.

It was always about regime change and never about protecting civilians.  The proof is in the relentless bombing of civilians who are on the wrong side of this civil war.

DaveW

Hoodeet wrote:

Bully for him.  So glad he's free and being a poster child for the intervention.

What about the complete silence around the fate of female soldiers and guards from the Ghaddafi elite units?  Where are they?  How safe are they from the fundamentalists and other degenerates who've already looted the weapons and documents?

What about the REAL statistics on the torture and killing of Blacks AND on the scope of the destruction of infrastructure AND on the deaths of non-combatants.

good questions, let's answer them ....

the thread above is too much of a one-note echo chamber (NATO = bad!) to critically debate them; once rebel Libya enters the UN officially in September, many questions can/will be answered.

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

DaveW wrote:

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

 

I guess the people who had their houses bombed and their family members murdered are in the streets celebrating as well.  Your posts merely seems to say that one side is evil incarnate and deserves to die at the hands of Canadian bombs so who the fuck cares about them.

We killed tens of thousands of Libyans who I am sure never asked for their cities to be bombed and their infrastructure destroyed.  Ask the people of Afghanistan and Iraq if they feel that NATO/US intervention has bettered their lives?   They are still trying to get rid of the corrupt governments installed by NATO/US intervention. Mark my words they will install a religious based constitution to replace the secular government they overthrew.  Sharia law will be coming soon to Libya because that is true democracy according to the west's "allies."  

I will take this humanitarian bullshit seriously when NATO bombs the crap out of Saudi Arabia for the human rights abuses its dictatorship imposes on its people each and every day.  Instead we cheer their invasion of Bahrain to put down a democratic protest.  Every empire and every invading country has always said it was protecting civilians.  

Ready Aye Ready the Kaiser is evil incarnate and we have to protect the women and children from the Hun.  After a century it seems the same propaganda techniques are still effective.  Our enemies are brutes who will rape and pillage and have no regard for human decency so WAR is JUSTIFIED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iFnce-4e74

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Many of the ones who aren't out celebrating are [url=http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/09/201195151213201237.html... into the jails that were so recently emptied of their prisoners.[/url]

Apparently the so-called NTC has been taking lessons from Toronto police by rounding up everyone in sight (especially if they are black) and throwing them in prison. With no judicial system in place, however, it will be years before the many innocent are released.

Hoodeet

DaveW wrote:

Hoodeet wrote:

Bully for him.  So glad he's free and being a poster child for the intervention.

What about the complete silence around the fate of female soldiers and guards from the Ghaddafi elite units?  Where are they?  How safe are they from the fundamentalists and other degenerates who've already looted the weapons and documents?

What about the REAL statistics on the torture and killing of Blacks AND on the scope of the destruction of infrastructure AND on the deaths of non-combatants.

good questions, let's answer them ....

the thread above is too much of a one-note echo chamber (NATO = bad!) to critically debate them; once rebel Libya enters the UN officially in September, many questions can/will be answered.

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

 

Hoodeet (JW)

You say "Let's answer those questions" and then  gaily drop the subject and proceed to do some more cheerleading based on biased news reporting and on your wishful thinking. 

How can those questions I raised be answered, now or when the NTC sends its spanking new delegation-as-democratic-façade-for-a-sharia-state-enforced-by-racist-tribal-goons to the U.N.?    Are C.B.C. or PBS or CNN or BBC or Murdoch going to ask the tough questions? 

Or  are Amy Goodman's middle eastern producers going to be enlightened suddenly, perhaps, and realize there are 100 questions about the other side of this glorious liberation? 

Or are you expecting TVQatar -I mean Al-Jazeera- to ask them?

 

 

 

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

I think some here would claim he talked with the wrong Liybans.

That and let's not forget his bias and the bias of the paper he works for.

Frmrsldr

DaveW wrote:

good questions, let's answer them ....

the thread above is too much of a one-note echo chamber (NATO = bad!) to critically debate them;

O.K. If NATO is "good" then let's find some evidence that supports this claim:

Let's see, NATO was involved in the carpet bombing of Serbia and Kosovo. NATO is involved in the illegal war on Afghanistan bombing, among other things, weddings and child naming ceremonies. NATO is currently involved in the illegal war on Libya carpet bombing cities and civilian populated areas.

So um, I don't see any evidence that supports the claim that NATO is "good."

DaveW wrote:

But at the end of the day, all evidence I have seen suggests the Libyans are delighted at the conclusion of their six-month rebellion.

Yes, that's what you can expect from selective searching.

Frmrsldr

How 'bout these?

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2011-09-02a.asp

http://verdict.justia.com/2011/08/31/when-qaddafi-was-our-friend

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/09/01/dictators/i...

I'm afraid you're behind the times my friend.

What about from (roughly) March 2003 to March 2011 when Gadhafi was the U.S.'s, the U.K.'s, France's and Italy's, etc., buddy and those in the U.S. and U.K. governments who now sing so loudly about Libyan "freedom" who (through the CIA and MI-6) rendered people to Libya to be tortured by their buddy, the Gadhafi government?

Do you not see the hollowness and two-faced hypocrisy in this?

Hoodeet

Caption:  "FREE AT LAST!"

Tragicómix

NDPP

good one!

Moammar Gadhafi Denies Fleeing Libya (and vid)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/09/08/libya-gadhafi-098.html

"In a radio broadcast on television, deposed Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi denies rumours that he fled to neighbouring Niger, calling them 'psychological warfare and lies.'

How Will Harper Know When the Libya Mission is Over?   -  by Campbell Clark

"At the moment, both NATO and Canada are working under a mandate that ends in less than three weeks. The understanding within the alliance, according to officials from key allies, is that the NATO mssion will end when pro-Gaddafi strongholds have surrendered to the interim government of the NTC.

There's hope that will be soon, but should it fail to happen before Operation United Protector's September 27 deadline, NATO and Mr Harper could very well choose to extend it. But there's another possible end that still worries all allies: Gadhafi's opponents will come unglued..."

MegB

Continued here.

Pages

Topic locked