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Libya 20
NDPP

Gaddafi Forces Capture 17 'Mercenaries' Including French and British

http://rt.com/news/line/2011-09-19/#id18511

"Most of them are French, one of them is from an Asian country that has not been identified, two English people and one Qatari.."

 

Gaddafi Diehards Repel Attack on Bastion

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/199616.html

"Libyan revoutionary forces have been forced to retreat from Bani Walid after facing resistance from the loyalists of the country's fugitive dictator, Muammar Gaddafi. Gaddafi's spokesman, Moussa Ibrahim said late Friday that there would be a long war in the two Gaddafi bastions despite NATO airstrikes.

'The battle is far from over. We assure everybody that the Sirte and Bani Walid fronts are strong, despite the heavy, unbelievable and merciless NATO bombardment on hospitals, families and schools..'

 

Massacre of Blacks in Libya by NATO-Backed Rebels Continues as World Watches: UN says 'No Comment' on Ethnic Cleansing..

http://www.blackstarnews.com/news/135/ARTICLE/7623/2011-09-13.html

The Wall Street Journal reports today that Black people have been emptied from the city of Tawergha in Libya, their homes razed and that the words 'Slaves' and 'Negroes' are scribbled on their abandoned buildings in the new ghost town by the NATO-backed rebels.

The chilling account of ethnic cleansing of Black people in Libya, OCCURRING RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES, appears under the headline 'Revenge Feeds Instability in Libya'.

These are the 'liberators' that [Stephen Harper,] President Barack Obama, President Sarkozy and Prime Minister David Cameron helped install in Libya to replace Muammar al-Quathafi. They all rejected an African Union proposal that would have brought a ceasefire and the warring parties to a table to create a constitution and to hold elections.."

 

Was Libya's Death Toll a Dramatic Overstatement?

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/16/was-libyas-death-toll-a-dramatic-over...

"The center of not just various rebel statements but THE ENTIRE NATO WAR EFFORT, the claims that Moammar Gadhafi had massacred tens of thousands of civilians in the course of Libya's civil war has been taken as a matter of fact. But with the war ending, people are starting to count the bodies. And starting to wonder where they all are...Was the whole 'genocide' a lie?"

add it to the ever-increasing pile.

 

Libyan Rebels Dumping Hundreds of Bodies in 'Pro-Gadhafi' Cemetary - by Jason Dix

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/18/libya-rebels-dumping-hundreds-of-bodi...

"The Libyabn rebel movement's primary embarrassment at the moment is that their claims of '50,000 civilians slain by Moammar Gadhafi, looks by early bodycounts to be about 49,000 too many. Bodies are turning up however, but not the ones the rebels were hoping for.

Instead, reports have the rebel forces dumping hundreds of bodies in a 'pro-Gadhafi cemetary with no identification, slain by the rebels for some unexplained reason. Just one cemetary reported some 800 unidentified corpses.."

 

 

 

Frmrsldr

NDPP wrote:

Massacre of Blacks in Libya by NATO-Backed Rebels Continues as World Watches: UN says 'No Comment' on Ethnic Cleansing..

WTF?

UNSCR 1973 was supposed "to protect civilians and civilian areas from attack."

This War of Aggresion is not a "U.N. mission"

but as pointed out in this post (NDPP's) and one I made in the Libya 19 thread,

the U.N. by failing to protest these crimes and to perform its duty by bringing those military and political leaders responsible to justice

is tacitly supporting such behavior.

Frmrsldr

Libyan rebels fail to agree on a new cabinet:

Jason Ditz wrote:

... Replacing the [NTC] cabinet has, so far, been an exercise in futility.

This is because the NTC is split virtually down the middle between supporters of Jibril, mostly defectors from the Gadhafi regime, and Islamists loyal to military commander Abdulhakim Belhaj. With the NTC looking for concensus on the cabinet and both sides hoping to cut the other out as much as possible, a deal will be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/18/libyan-rebels-fail-to-agree-on-new-ca...

NDPP

I would say tactically rather than tacitly...

have you ever read the correspondence between Anthony Eden and Churchill on their perception of the UN's purpose? Fascinating. All I recall now was one pithy comment: 'to enable representatives of the lesser powers to blow off steam'.

Frmrsldr

NDPP wrote:

have you ever read the correspondence between Anthony Eden and Churchill on their perception of the UN's purpose?

Yes,

and also the conversations between Churchill and Roosevelt on their perceptions of the U.N.'s purpose.

Perhaps I become a little too hopeful the U.N. can rise above its initial beginings when I read the U.N. Charter.

NDPP

alas, their evil actions speak louder than their pretty words

NDPP

more on Libya and the tender mercies of the UN:

Planned Peackeeper Occupation of Libya  - by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/planned-peacekeeper-occupation-libya

"...Libya's corpse belongs to NATO. It's now 'Libya Inc.' to be carved up for profit, with paramilitaries deployed for enforcement. Under the UN Charter, the Security Council may act to maintain international peace and security, including by deploying peacekeepers host countries request. In fact, it opposes the interests of the people they're sworn to protect. This week, in fact, hundreds of angry Haitians demanded MINUSTAH forces leave after troops raped a teenage male..

Libya will now experience what other UN occupied countries fear."

Frmrsldr

Here is a continuation of the last post in Libya 19:

http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2011/09/18/how-washington-creates...

In reference to Post # 8 below: France, the U.K. and NATO may not want or need the U.N. to intervene in Libya:

Pepe Escobar in the Asia Times wrote:

With NATO expecting to extend the fun, no wonder the Anglo-French lovers couldn't care less about their host Jalil's promise to throw Libya's secular state to the dustbin (as in sharia becoming the "main source of law"). One more reason for the West to be "vigilant". Expect major catfights ahead. The man to watch is Ali as-Salabi - a hardcore Islamist aligned with Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. He's already launched a war against TNC's Prime Minister Mahmoud Jibril - so far the global media face of the NATO rebels. As-Salabi defines Jibril and his cohorts as "extreme secularists" who are leading Libya to "a new era of tyranny and dictatorship". Al-Qaeda asset Belhaj - who commands thousands of rebels armed to their teeth - happens to be a very close ally of as-Salabi.

There's no evidence the TNC has the strength to disarm the current, already Iraqi-style, militia hell in Tripoli and beyond. If the TNC won't do it, NATO will hapily oblige. In this case, bets are on Libya turning not into Afghanistan 2.0 or Iraq 2.0, but Somalia 2.0. Endgame? Send in the Marines and turn Tripoli into Fallujah. Barack Obama may even win the 2012 United States election on this one.

You betcha; the (tragic) fun and games are just beginning. Let's see how long it will take for King Sarko and Little Dave to reenact their victory lap - and in what kind of Tripoli will they land. Kabul, Baghdad or Mogadishu?

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MI17Ak02.html

(Bolding not in original.)

 

NDPP

Gadhafi Loyalists' Fight Raise Fear of Long Insurgency

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/09/18/libya-fighting.html

"...Their determination has raised the spectre of a prolonged insurgency in the country, similar to what Iraq and Afghanistan have experienced, says Barzai Daraghani, a Financial Times correspondent in Tripoli."

 

Libyans Fail to Agree to New Government

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE7810I820110918

"LIbya's interim leaders failed to agree on a new cabinet on Sunday as the forces that forced Muammar Gaddafi from power remain bogged down in fighting with troops loyal to the former ruler

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

  

If the ground war stays Libyan vs Libyan I doubt it would last very long (an insurgency)... especially once Kaddafi is captured killed or proven to have fled Libya. If NATO sticks its nose into the ground combat in any major way then that is a different story.

NDPP

The Conquest of Thieves  - by Stanley Cullymore

http://politicoacademic.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/the-conquest-of-thieves

"...Marcel Ceccaldi another lawyer pulled no punches when he said that NATO is deliberately waging a campaign of terror, pointing out that 'their bombings targeted the electricity, water and food supplies [of Libya.] After five months of day and night bombings and thousands of deaths, people [understandably] will stop supporting the regime because they just can't take it anymore.

Meanwhile, on the ground in Libya itself, fighters backing the new leadership continue to pound what's left of the old regime's remaining holdouts; civilian casualties are still a very real possibiolity, but countries quick to condemn Colonel Gaddafi's threatened assault on the so called rebels back in March 2011 seem to have gone mysteriously quiet.

NATO still persists in its transparently and utterly mendacious viewpoint that all of its attacks in Libya are specifically targeted ones, but as every reputable journalist, analyst and observer knows and as the weight of evidence against NATO patently shows this is a lie of monumental proportions as the plethora of NATO encouraged reprisal killings and black lynchings testify to.."

Frmrsldr

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

If the ground war stays Libyan vs Libyan I doubt it would last very long (an insurgency)...

I disagree. Here's why:

Jason Ditz wrote:

Many thought the Libyan rebel conquest of the capital city of Tripoli made the civil war ambitions of regime change a fait accompli, and with the UN rushing to give the rebels a seat, you'd figure they had already taken over the country.

But the rebels are just getting into around to trying to take over the sparsely populated southern portion of the nation, and are planning to attack the major city of Sabha within the next two days, having already taken over the airport on the outskirts, as well as a colonial fort, Fort Elena, which at one point was a military base of some import.

At the same time, rebel attempts to mop up the loyalist cities of Bani Walid and Sirte in the north don't seem to be going particularly well, as the regime is claiming several wins in battles around those last cities.

With the rebels already seriously split between defectors and Islamists, the move into the south could be seriously problematic. This is doubly so because the rebels have been openly persecuting black people across the portions of the nation they've already conquered.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/19/libyan-rebels-move-to-conquer-souther...

NDPP

'Your So-Called National Army Has Been Totally Crushed at Dafniya by Gaddafi Troops' (and vid)

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/09/your-so-called-national-army-has-be...

"This phone call is a dispute between a Misrata rebel commander and the NTC's Military spokeman, Colonel Ahmed Bani

'Your so-called National Army has been totally crushed at Dafniya by Gaddafi troops, and they took all the weapons and armoured vehicles. There is no National Army anymore.

Where is your National Army in Sirte? Are you talking about those waiting outside parading for TV and photographs? A commander like you should come to the battleground, not go parading on TV. Stop acting like the Americans and French - like Sarkozy, parading around while the war is still ongoing in the country..."

NDPP

Libya, Maternal Health on Agenda for Harper at UN

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/09/19/pol-harper-un.html

Friends of Libya Meeting Live link

"It's not expected Canada will offer anything specific at Tuesday's meeting with the NTC having had only a few weeks to consider what the country needs..."

NDPP

African Union Recognizes Libyan NTC

http://rt.com/news/line/2011-09-20/#id18661

"The African Union has recognized the National Transitional Council (NTC) as the legitimate authority in Libya..."

DaveW

.. the Africans had every reason to be cautious; the rebels were/are unknowns, plus Ghaddaffi had hugely bankrolled the African Union (along with China) as well as various neighbouring States, and hence turning against him too soon would be poor form -- not to mention disastrous if he had somehow dodged the bullet, so to speak, and returned to power ...

now, that is all history

long live rebel Libya

 

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

African Union Recognizes Libyan NTC

http://rt.com/news/line/2011-09-20/#id18661

"The African Union has recognized the National Transitional Council (NTC) as the legitimate authority in Libya..."

THere's a bit more background to that here:

http://rabble.ca/comment/1280744

NDPP

saw it - Mouseveni is a US stooge, so no surprise there. Speaking of US stooges - not a peep out of our H of C on Libya yet.

Frmrsldr

NDPP wrote:

Speaking of US stooges - not a peep out of our H of C on Libya yet.

Herr Harper has promised that he will bring yet another War Resolution before the House whether to escalate military engagement in Libya for, in his words, "Canadian troops to remain in Libya for as long as they are needed."

Which begs the question of how long that will be as no end date was mentioned.

NDPP

UN Human Rights Team Concerned Over Arrest of Africans in Libya

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/311690

"The allegation of abuse by Libyan rebel fighters which the UN only now appears to have heard of, was in fact reported by the Wall Street Journal three months ago, on June 21. Rebel atrocities outlined by the Black Star News against black Libyans in Misrata included lynchings, beheadings, and ethnic cleansing..'

NDPP

NATO Operation in Libya to Continue - Obama

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110920/166987818.html

"So long as the Libyan people are being threatened, the NATO-led mission to protect them will continue,' Obama said at a high-level UN conference on Libya. 'As these still holding out must understand - the old regime is over, and it is time to lay down your arms and join the new Libya."

Orwell is rolling over...

Fidel

Destroying a Country's Standard of Living: What Libya Had Achieved, What has been Destroyed

"There is no tomorrow" under a NATO sponsored Al Qaeda rebellion.

 

DaveW

 

progress on all fronts for rebel Libya:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/world/africa/qaddafi-assails-libya-government-that-replaced-him.html?ref=africa

The development came as international recognition of the Transitional National Council, the interim government, which began as a rebel movement against Colonel Qaddafi more than six months ago, took a quantum leap at the United Nations.

The council's leader, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, was warmly welcomed by President Obama and other world leaders, most of whom who had supported the anti-Qaddafi forces in the Libyan conflict. The new flag of Libya - an adaptation of the flag from before the Qaddafi era - flew over the United Nations for the first time in decades, and the African Union officially recognized the council as the country's governing authority.

The former rebels still do not control all of Libya, although they reported progress on Tuesday in their effort to rout the Qaddafi loyalists. A military spokesman for the anti-Qaddafi forces, Col. Ahmed Omar Bani, said its fighters controlled as much as 70 percent of Sabha, a desert town in southern Libya and one of three remaining strongholds of armed Qaddafi supporters. Colonel Bani said the former rebel fighters still faced pockets of resistance, including in the neighborhood of al-Manshiya.

That assertion was impossible to immediately confirm. A CNN reporter with the former rebels in Sabha said they had been received "warmly" by residents in the city.

The capture of Sabha would provide the interim government with a symbolic and tactical victory. Colonel Qaddafi, who attended elementary school in Sabha, referred to the city as the "first spark" in the 1969 revolution that elevated him to power. It sits on roads to Algeria and Niger that Qaddafi family members and confidants have used to escape from Libya in recent weeks.

However, rebel leaders remain transfixed by a final, crucial goal, convincing key participants at Canadian left-wing discussion site Babble to back them. A delegation had been sent to northern Ontario to negotiate with a prominent poster "Fidel", but this ended in fiasco when he refused the rebel offerings of gold, frankincense and myrrh plus a business-class return ticket to Tripoli to "see the revolution for himself". Negotiations are reportedly continuing at an undisclosed location near international hub Sault Ste. Marie.

 

 

NDPP

.....NATO has decided to invoke  R2P and will shortly mount a six month campaign of bombing to demolish Sault Ste Marie's  infrastructure. SAS, and JTF2 will assist rebel forces to terrorize the citizenry into compliance, thereby freeing them from his pernicious influence. Powerful international companies are reportedly interested in making deals regarding valuable natural resources. The local MP has declared his intention to defect to the new rebel government and numerous countries, have promised to recognize the newly installed democracy. Rebel spokespersons denied allegations of atrocities. The Canadian parliament, including the usual social democrats have voted in favour of the measures...

NDPP

Obama Welcomes Dawn of Free Libya...  -  by Mark Kennedy

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/world/Obama+welcomes+dawn+free+Libya...

"At the start of the meeting, Obama told the group that history has been made with the removal of the Libyan dictator from power. 'Today, the Libyan people are writing a new chapter in the life of their nation,' Obama said. 'After four decades of darkness, they can walk the streets, free from a tyrant. [ but watch out for Canucklehead Charlie B's NATO bombs and missiles, and if you're a black Libyan, the Benghazi KKK is gunning for you]

They're making their voices heard in new newspapers, on radio and television, in public squares and on personal blogs. They're launching political parties and civil-society groups to shape their own destiny and secure their universal rights. And here at the United Nations, the new flag of a free Libya now flies among the community of nations.

Obama said the victory in Libya is a 'lesson' of what can happen when nations stand together. So long as the Libyan people are being threatened, the NATO led mission to protect them will continue..."

 

Obama's Arc of Instability: Destabilizing the World One Region at a Time  -  by Nick Turse

http://www.zcommunications.org/destabilizing-the-world-one-region-at-a-t...

"It's a story that should take your breath away: the destabilization of what, in the Bush years, used to be called 'the arc of instability.' It involves at least 97 countries, across the bulk of the global south, much of it coinciding with the oil heartlands of the planet. A startling number of these nations are now in turmoil, and in every single one of them -- from Afghanistan and Algeria to Yemen and Zambia -- Washington is militarily involved, overtly or covertly, in outright war or what passes for peace.

The United States is now involved in wars in six arc-of-instability nations: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen..."

 

Ban Ki Moon: A Record of Failure and Betrayal  -  by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/ban-ki-moon-record-failure-and-betrayal

"...he dutifully served Washington, other dominant powers, and corporate predation of Africa's riches and elsewhere. He also called for Gaddafi's ouster, saying he lost all legitimacy. At the same time, he backs cut-throat rebel paramilitaries, and supports lawless airstrikes. They've laid waste to large parts of Libya and still do, killing and injuring tens of thousands. The've also transformed Libya into a charnel house human rights disaster.."

 

 

NDPP

Family Shot by Rebels Because of Gaddafi Surname

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/family-shot-by-rebels-because-of-gaddafi-surnam...

"A woman and her family were shot by Libyan rebel fighters in a deadly attack because their name was Gaddafi, it has been reported.."

Just another day in the 'New Libya'

Frmrsldr

Gadhafi spokesman: NATO strikes in Sirte killed 151 civilians:

John Glaser wrote:

"Between yesterday and this morning, 151 civilians were killed inside their homes as the Grad rockets and other explosives fell upon their heads," Moussa Ibrahim told Reuters. "The city hospital stopped functioning altogether last night. Patients died simply because nothing can be done to help them."

His claims could not be immediately verified because Sirte is besieged on all sides by invading encroaching rebel forces and communication is down from weeks of NATO bombing.

The attacks on Sirte, which contains both militant Gadhafi loyalists as well as civilians, began weeks ago and humanitarian conditions there have been dire, as large numbers of civilians have been displaced due to the fighting, lack of electricity, water, food, and medical care for the residents.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/22/gadhafi-spokesman-nato-strikes-in-sir...

NDPP

Obama Hosts International Debut for Libay's Racist and Thoroughly Non-Revolutionary Regime  -  by Glen Clark (BAR)

http://libya360.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/obam-hosts-international-debut-...

[Canada and] the United States and the corporate media would have you believe that President Obama and the US corporate media are celebrating the triumph of a revolution in Libya.

But there was no revolution.

Revolutionaries, African revolutionaries, do not name their fighting units 'The Brigade for Purging Slaves, Black Skin.'

And they have not yet triumphed.

The armed conflict in Libya has been an imperial project from the very beginning, and the people knew it. Obama is working from an old playbook, deploying 'Islamists to wage war against non-compliant secular regimes and movements in the Muslim world..."

 

Did The African Union Really Recognize the NTC?

http://libya360.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/did-the-african-union-really-re...

"There seems to be considerable ambiguity in the statement..'

 

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

The NDP is trying to have it both ways if the Globe is right.  Do-War talks about the planes coming home but not the navy or special forces.  It is time the NDP started decrying the loss of Libyan lives at the hands of the extremists in the "rebel" group.

Maybe Canada can offer courses to the rebels on parliamentary procedure with a special class on proroguing the House to avoid inconvenient elections.  I hope for their sake they get a real democracy with a FPTP system since that has proven to be the most stable with little chance for more radical elements to have any say whatsoever in public policy

Strange how returning to the role of colonial regime is considered progress in some circles.  Its been 40 years since the colonial flag has flown over Libya. Its nice to see the symbols of the monarchy making a come back.  According to the MSM history 40 years ago a madman overturned the monarch who was beloved by his subjects.  Personally I don't buy any of that shit. 

Quote:

If Canada does extend the mission, it will do so over the protests of the New Democratic Party. While the Official Opposition has supported Canada’s involvement in Libya in two previous votes, foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar has said his party believes the time has come to bring the Canadian contingent of CF-18 fighter jets home.

knownothing knownothing's picture

I am also opposed to the mission, but it is still good that Do-war came out against extending the mission again. The NDP have nothing to lose by taking an opposition stance to this war-mongering. Sure I wish they would go farther but at least they are not agreeing with the Torys like the Libs are.

NDPP

Having already voting 'FOR' the first time round when it really counted - this 'NAY' is barely a pillow-fight between 'regime change' imperialist bedfellows, to soothe the ruffled feathers of the party's 'left flank'. Once again the NDP sucks and blows at the same time. Seems to work for them everytime...

knownothing knownothing's picture

NDPP wrote:

Having already voting 'FOR' the first time round when it really counted - this 'NAY' is barely a pillow-fight between 'regime change' imperialist bedfellows, to soothe the ruffled feathers of the party's 'left flank'. Once again the NDP sucks and blows at the same time. Seems to work for them everytime...

Yeah you are right. But it is still better than agreeing with an extension.

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

knownothing wrote:

Yeah you are right. But it is still better than agreeing with an extension.

I am not sure what the extent of the opposition by the NDP will be. The Globe only quoted him in regard to the planes.  No talk of the navy but then there never is.  None of the brave sailors that served for Canada during the Iraq war are ever acknowledged.   Our navy's role is extremely underreported in our narrative of the last decade in the middle east.  We don't even debate it we just accept that our navy needs to be patrolling in that area of the world enforcing NATO embargoes and blockades.  

knownothing knownothing's picture

I know the level of debate in this country regarding foreign policy is atrocious

contrarianna

knownothing wrote:

I am also opposed to the mission, but it is still good that Do-war came out against extending the mission again. The NDP have nothing to lose by taking an opposition stance to this war-mongering. Sure I wish they would go farther but at least they are not agreeing with the Torys like the Libs are.

Unfortunately, it's much worse than that.

Dewar and the NDP are trying to define themselves as a Harper (and Liberal) Lite party, acceptable to the almost universally Harper-endorsing right-wing media.
Thus, should Harper ever get videoed felating a goat (or some equally improbable media-worthy transgression) the NDP trusts that they would be treated by the media as an acceptable second best.

Dewar has already established a poisoness message in the public mind: that the media-designated "leftist NDP" approves of the "humanitarian intervention" and that it was about "protecting civilians"--with NATO's 8700 strike sorties on a sovereign state slaughtering untold numbers of civilians (likely thousands).

Thus, the NDP has normalized the warmongering neoconsevative talking points and has thereby collapsed the acceptable Canadian foreign policy spectrum to a quibbling hair thickness in the media-formed public mind.

Voting "No" to the intervention now would be done for equally cynical and improbable reasons since they affirm the alleged correctness of their first two 'Yes" votes.        
   .
While claiming "mission accomplished--no need for more bombing to protect civilians" they are re-affirming the original fiction which NATO itself only inconsistently and smirkinglly maintains--as they slaughter for regime change.  
=====

The future "No" vote, in any case, does not seem certain as the NDP tries to navigate between its previous duplicitous position articulated by Dewar formerly as: "protecting civilians, check, mission accomplised":

Quote:
[Sept 21]NDP Interim Leader Nycole Turmel said last week her party doesn't want to extend the mission.

"We think the work has been done," she said. "We are not considering at all a prolongation or adding months or time to the mission in Libya."....


http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2011/09/should-canada-extend-its-mi...

Quote:
[Sept 21]NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said he would like to participate in any of the government's plans for Libya and urged the prime minister to bring the plans back to Parliament for approval.

 "I'll look forward to seeing the text of the motion. I'm assuming this will be presented to Parliament to get approval of Parliament like it has been in the past," he said, adding that he would like to see any motion include help with governance and democratic development.

http://www.globalnews.ca/canada+to+extend+libya+mission+by+three+months+...

Quote:
[Sept 21] NDP defence critic Jack Harris said the situation in Libya doesn't appear as dire as at the start of the summer.

``We see the crisis as being one that has passed,'' Harris said.

Harris wouldn't say how the NDP might vote when Parliament considers a second extension of Canada's involvement in the NATO-led mission to Libya.

http://www.canada.com/fighting+nears+diplomat+warns+Qaida+Libya/5431356/...

Hoodeet

"NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said he would like to participate in any of the government's plans for Libya and urged the prime minister to bring the plans back to Parliament for approval." How far up Herpes's ass is he willing to crawl to have a share of power?

It's creepy he's the foreign affairs critic.

I'm glad I renounced my NDP membership before I had to endure any more of this servility and opportunism.

contrarianna

Hoodeet wrote:

"NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said he would like to participate in any of the government's plans for Libya and urged the prime minister to bring the plans back to Parliament for approval." How far up Herpes's ass is he willing to crawl to have a share of power?

It's creepy he's the foreign affairs critic.

A critic in name only.
Dewar likes Harper's Foreign Policy so much he had his flight all lined up to lobby for a Con seat on the Security Council.
His biggest criticism was that Harper didn't want to use him (on that occassion).

Frmrsldr

Northern Shoveler wrote:

The NDP is trying to have it both ways if the Globe is right.  Do-War talks about the planes coming home but not the navy or special forces.  It is time the NDP started decrying the loss of Libyan lives at the hands of the extremists in the "rebel" group.

... Strange how returning to the role of colonial regime is considered progress in some circles.  Its been 40 years since the colonial flag has flown over Libya. Its nice to see the symbols of the monarchy making a come back.  According to the MSM history 40 years ago a madman overturned the monarch who was beloved by his subjects.  Personally I don't buy any of that shit. 

Interesting:

When the war on Libya began,

Canada had a Navy and an Air Force.

Now Canada has a Royal Navy and Royal Air Force.

Progress indeed.

Frmrsldr

Northern Shoveler wrote:

I am not sure what the extent of the opposition by the NDP will be. The Globe only quoted him in regard to the planes.  No talk of the navy but then there never is.  None of the brave sailors that served for Canada during the Iraq war are ever acknowledged.   Our navy's role is extremely underreported in our narrative of the last decade in the middle east.  We don't even debate it we just accept that our navy needs to be patrolling in that area of the world enforcing NATO embargoes and blockades.  

Now that NATO has claimed that the war is (essentially) over, Canada's, the U.S.A.'s, the E.U.'s and NATO's navies are patrolling the area without a mission as there is no longer any need to enforce the blockade.

Frmrsldr

Revenge and racism cloud Libya's future:

Jason Ditz wrote:

Even those few allowed back in [Misrata] face mistrust and sometimes violence from those who stayed, a reflection of the new Libya where suspicion trumps all else.

And in Libya nothing is more suspicious than skin color. It is well documented that several rebel groups have moved overtly against black people, herding whole cities of them into refugee camps then attacking the camps.

Reports of the Gadhafi forces' use of mercenary fighters from elsewhere in Africa has convinced many in Libya that being black is proof that one was a regime fighter. In reality, of course, many have lived in Libya for generations, and many more were just immigrant workers. This didn't prevent them from being arrested, or killed, by rebel troops.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/23/racism-general-mistrust-cloud-libyas-...

Frmrsldr

Oh now they tell us the "truth" about Libya:

Robert Perry for Consortiumnews.com wrote:

During the six-month uprising against Muammar Gaddafi, major U.S. news outlets repeated again and again that the Libyan dictator was behind the 1988 bombing of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, and they ignored warnings that militant Islamists were at the core of the anti-Gaddafi rebel army.

... Now, after the United States and its NATO allies have engineered the desired "regime change" in Libya - under the pretext of "protecting civilians" - those two points are coming more into focus.

... However, to most Americans relying on the major U.S. news media, little of this was known, as the Washington Post itself acknowledged on Thursday. In an article on the rise of Islamists inside the new power structure in Libya, the Post wrote:

"Although it went largely unnoticed during the uprising that toppled Gaddafi last month, Islamists were at the heart of the fight, many as rebel commanders.

"Now some are clashing with secularists within the rebels' Transitional National Council, prompting worries among some liberals that the Islamists - who still command the bulk of fighters and weapons - could use their strength to assert an even more dominant role."

On Thursday, the New York Times led the front page with a similar article, entitled "Islamists' Growing Sway Raises Questions for Libya." It began:

"In the emerging post-Qaddafi Libya, the most influential politician may well be Ali Sallabi, who has no formal title but commands broad respect as an Islamic scholar and populist orator who was instrumental in leading the mass uprising.

"The most powerful military leader is now Abdel Hakim Belhaj, the former leader of a hard-line group once believed to be aligned with Al Qaeda."

Belhaj was previously the commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which was associated with al-Qaeda in the past, maintained training bases in Afghanistan before the 9/11 attacks, and was listed as a terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department.

Though Belhaj and the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group deny current allegiance to al-Qaeda, Belhaj was captured during George W. Bush's post-9/11 "war on terror" and was harshly interrogated by the CIA at a "black site" prison in Thailand before being handed over to Gaddafi's government which imprisoned and - Belhaj claims - tortured him.

The Times reported that "Belhaj has become so much an insider lately that he is seeking to unseat Mahmoud Jibril, the American-trained economist who is the nominal prime minister of the interim government, after Mr. Jibril obliquely criticized the Islamists.

The Times article ... also cited other recent developments of growing Islamist influence inside the Libyan rebel movement:

"Islamist militias in Libya receive weapons and financing directly from foreign benefactors like Qatar; a Muslim Brotherhood figure, Abel al-Rajazk Abu Hajar, leads the Tripoli Municipal Governing Council, where Islamists are reportedly in the majority; in eastern Libya, there has been no resolution of the assassination in July of the leader of the rebel military, Gen. Abdul Fattah Younes, suspected by some to be the work of Islamists."

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/09/15/on-libya-now-they-tell-us/

Mr. Perry concludes:

"It may be commendable that the Post and Times are finally giving serious attention to this unintended consequence of the NATO-backed "regime change" in Libya, but the fact that these premier American newspapers ignored the Islamist issue as well as doubts about Libya's Lockerbie guilt - while the U.S. government was whipping up public support for another war in the Muslim world - raises questions about whether any lessons were learned from Iraq."

Or, I might add, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Kosovo, Serbia....

 

6079_Smith_W

Now I'm confused. 

If the Islamists are supposedly the bad guys why is it that the only actual criticism is against Jabril because he apparently helped craft the NATO action, the fact that he was once a member of Gadaffi's cabinet? Oh, and that he doesn't consult with the grassroots - something that should come as no surprise considering the governing style he has been familiar with for most of his career.

And should we see Jabril's former work with Gadaffi as a good thing or a bad thing? 

And seeing as everyone in this scenario - including Gadaffi - has worked with the Americans, I have to say I'm not quite as sure as some what is happening there, or what will come of all this.

Though I guess the theory that the Americans have their hands in all the pies and it doesn't really matter which of the factions wins and the only proper solution is to let Gadaffi back in is a handy one. 

Know what - I think if the people actually want him back in there is a good chance that will happen, because I doubt any outside force is going to be able to control what goes on there for too long. And the armaments that the Islamists supposedly have won't last forever.

And they also don't seem to be able to finish the job as it is. Reports are that Gadaffi is bringing in new fighters from Algeria.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/18/libya-ntc-leaders-interim-ca...

DaveW

Hoodeet wrote:

"NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said he would like to participate in any of the government's plans for Libya and urged the prime minister to bring the plans back to Parliament for approval." How far up Herpes's ass is he willing to crawl to have a share of power?

It's creepy he's the foreign affairs critic. ...

Thanks for the tip; I will send Dewar this week a letter assuring him of this NDP voter's support for a sound position.

 

contrarianna

DaveW wrote:

Hoodeet wrote:

"NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar said he would like to participate in any of the government's plans for Libya and urged the prime minister to bring the plans back to Parliament for approval." How far up Herpes's ass is he willing to crawl to have a share of power?

It's creepy he's the foreign affairs critic. ...

Thanks for the tip; I will send Dewar this week a letter assuring him of this NDP voter's support for a sound position.

 

Of course you will.
Aficionados of imperial slaughter are now mainstream for the NDP.

The Liberal Defence of Murder

Hoodeet

And while you're at it, DaveW, why don't you send the same letter to Harper?

But perhaps I didn't understand what you mean about a "sound position".  Do-war's?

Frmrsldr

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Now I'm confused. 

If the Islamists are supposedly the bad guys why is it that the only actual criticism is against Jabril because he apparently helped craft the NATO action, the fact that he was once a member of Gadaffi's cabinet? Oh, and that he doesn't consult with the grassroots - something that should come as no surprise considering the governing style he has been familiar with for most of his career.

And should we see Jabril's former work with Gadaffi as a good thing or a bad thing? 

And seeing as everyone in this scenario - including Gadaffi - has worked with the Americans, I have to say I'm not quite as sure as some what is happening there, or what will come of all this.

An easy way to overcome the confusion is to answer the question:

What right do we have to intervene militarily, wage a War of Aggression and engage in regime change against Libya?

Yes, the responsibilities of imperialist leadership.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Did anyone else notice the short-lived CBC memo to refer to the rebel forces as TNC (Transitional National Council) forces? By 6:00 pm they had reverted back to the term "rebel forces". I found it kind of odd.

Also, what is the latest excuse for extending Canada's mission by another 3 months? Is it to stop TNC forces from inflicting harm on innocent African migrant civilians?

Frmrsldr

laine lowe wrote:

Also, what is the latest excuse for extending Canada's mission by another 3 months? Is it to stop TNC forces from inflicting harm on innocent African migrant civilians?

No, no.

It's for the U.S., E.U. and Canada, etc., to protect civilians from Gadhafi forces by having the U.S./NATO Luftwaffe murder them instead.

Gadhafi is so crazy and evil that it's better we get to his intended victims and kill them before he does. It's more merciful that way.

Besides, we need Libyan oil more than the Libyans do.

We'll manage their oil better than either Gadhafi did or future Libyan(s) (governments) will.

NDPP

Libyan Rebels Abandon Fight Against Loyalists  -  by Jason Dix

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/09/24/libyan-rebels-abandon-fight-against-l...

"The battle in Bani Walid, one of Gadhafi's last remaining strongholds, is drawing to a close as rebel forces call it quits.."

NDPP

Libyan NTC Fighters Pull Back from Sirte (and vid)

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/09/2011925104532777522.html

"Libya's interim government forces have retreated from Muammar Gaddafi's hometown of Sirte, after fighters loyal to the former leader mounted stiff resistance to an attempt to seize the city. A Gaddafi spokesman accused NATO of killing several hundred civilians in strikes on Sirte. Communications have been largely cut off since the fall of Tripoli.."

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