Living in the SARS-CoV-2 era (distancing, wash hands, wear mask to protect others, but OK to go outside)

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NorthReport
Living in the SARS-CoV-2 era (distancing, wash hands, wear mask to protect others, but OK to go outside)

What about folks who have booked flights months from now? Will they be able to cancel their flights, hotels etc without financial penalties  to themselves? What is the Canadian government going to do to protect Canadian travellers who could find themselves in this type of predicament?  Can you purchase cancellation insurance a month or two or three months after you book and pay for your airplane ticket?

Coronavirus: turbulent times ahead for air travellers as carriers cancel China flights

  • Lufthansa, British Airways, Air Canada among several big name airlines to halt flights, while others reduce services
  • Travel agents expecting slump in sales amid rising uncertainty over how epidemic will play out

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048288/coronavirus-turbulent-times-ahead-air-travellers-carriers-cancel

 

China coronavirus: Global health emergency declared by World Health Organisation, reversing earlier decision on outbreak

  • Decision comes amid growing criticism of the UN health agency’s move last week not to declare the outbreak a ‘public health emergency of international concern’
  • Disease is spreading steadily overseas as cases rise inside China

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048314/china-coronavirus-world-health-organisation-declares-outbreak

kropotkin1951

That is a good article in SCMP. thanks NR. It seems that in Canada we have little to fear from this newest semi-deadly virus except fear itself.

Declaring the public health emergency of international concern (PHEIC), WHO director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus emphasised multiple times during a press conference in Geneva that the move was not “a vote of no confidence” in China’s ability to control the outbreak.

Our greatest concern is the potential for the virus to spread to countries with weaker health systems and which are ill prepared to deal with it,” Tedros said.

...

But WHO officials also warned that drastic restrictions in travel and trade were not necessary, and said they opposed any move to close borders with China or restrict Chinese travellers’ access. Though they did not mention Russia by name, their remarks came soon after Moscow announced it was closing sections of the Russia-China border and suspending visas for Chinese visitors.

“Some countries have taken questionable measures concerning travellers,” said Didier Houssin, chair of the WHO’s emergency committee. Those measures, he said, “should not constitute an example to follow”.

...

Amid the outbreak, numerous governments are advising against all non-essential travel to China, while countries including the US and Japan have chartered flights to Wuhan to extract citizens living inside the locked-down city of about 11 million people. Several international air carriers have scaled back or suspended flights to the country amid dwindling demand.

Tedros characterised travel restrictions as countries punishing China, which he said deserved only respect for its handling of the outbreak. “Where respect is due, then you don’t punish,” he said. “Meaning if anyone is thinking about taking measures it’s going to be wrong.”

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048314/china-coronaviru...

 

Sean in Ottawa

I have less concern about travellors as I assume an insurance system a you mention can work. I think people should avoid unnecessary travel for environmental reasons. People who have connections in the country they are travelling to can do their personal research.

The people I am more concerned about are the healthcare professionals who are much more likely to be impacted by an outbreak. nurses, doctors, hospital workers. I am not convinced that theya re adequately protected and resourced. This is where I would place my priority now in terms of reactions.

NorthReport

What a pompous jerk trying to scapegoat people, and kicking people when they are down! Commies sound a lot like many of our right-wing Democratic governments. They deserve each other!

China coronavirus death toll surges: All the latest updates

Top Communist Party official in Wuhan expresses 'remorse' because local authorities reacted too slow on the outbreak.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/china-coronavirus-death-toll-surges-latest-updates-200131232932230.html

NorthReport

Confirmed 11,374 cases

259 deaths or 2.28% of people who have been diagnosed with coronavirus have died

And 2.22% have recovered

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

NorthReport

Losing over 600 points on the DJIA, the stock market took quite a shit kicking today, eh!

Oh, my! 

Boo! Friggin! Hoo! 

Just wait till next week, eh!

NorthReport

Coronavirus: How does this outbreak end?

The new coronavirus outbreak may just be beginning. Epidemiologists outline three broad scenarios for how it could end.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/1/31/21115109/coronavirus-outbreak-end-sars-comparison

NorthReport

Humans, eh!

Coronavirus Anger Boils Over in China and Doctors Plead for Supplies

A man was detained after beating up a doctor in Wuhan, and medical staff members are wearing raincoats to protect against infection.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/world/asia/china-coronavirus-epidemic.html

NorthReport

I wish nothing but the best for these health care workers as their current working conditions sound quite tramatic

Fears of coronavirus spreading locally as Hong Kong hospital staff back strike to demand closure of border with mainland China

  • Health chiefs raise worrying possibility that 75-year-old man who became 12th confirmed case on Friday might have been infected in the city
  • Hospital bosses to meet angry workers on Sunday in bid to head off industrial action
  •  

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3048558/fears-coronavirus-spreading-locally-hong-kong

NorthReport

The red blobs on the map in China are growing a mile a minute You have to feel for the Chinese people.

12,024 / 259 

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

NorthReport

 

China pledges more money to help companies weather coronavirus outbreak

  • Central bank says it will cut lending rates, increase liquidity to ensure financial stability as death toll and number of confirmed cases continue to rise
  • Statement comes as report by Hong Kong scientists says there could be more than 75,000 infected people in Wuhan alone

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048554/china-pledges-more-money-help-companies-weather-coronavirus

NorthReport

Paranoia and frustration as China places itself under house arrest

Cities are becoming ghost towns, while at the heart of the outbreak people are being disinfected after taking the bins out

Sat 1 Feb 2020 13.58 GMTFirst published on Sat 1 Feb 2020 12.35 GMT

  •  

A man wearing a protective mask walks along an empty street in Beijing.

 

 Streets of Beijing – ‘Right now the roads, restaurants and malls are all empty of people’. Photograph: Nicolas Asfouri/AFP

Last week, in the last few days of China’s lunar new year holiday, the streets of Beijing were decorated with fairy lights and glowing red lanterns, but eerily empty. Normally busy restaurant and bar strips were dark. Residential compounds, often lax in their security, closed their gates, with guards ordering anyone entering to register and have their temperature taken. Public buses carried only a few passengers. Those restaurants that were open were mostly empty, with only small groups of diners. At Beijing Capital airport, staff, including some health workers in full hazmat suits, outnumbered passengers.

“It’s weird,” said Li, 42, a teacher from Beijing who has remained in the city since the outbreak of the coronavirus. “This isn’t Beijing. Beijing always has a lot of people. Right now the roads, restaurants and malls are all empty.” She spends her days at home cooking and eating, occasionally going to the shop for supplies.

Authorities are implementing “grid-style management” – total coverage – to uncover infections in communities. Over the past week, neighbourhood committees have knocked on doors, asking residents whether anyone in their household has recently visited Wuhan, the provincial capital where the virus is believed to have originated, or surrounding areas in Hubei province. Police have called to check on those in Beijing with Wuhan hukou, or household registrations.

In a city that attracts millions of workers from across the vast country, paranoia about outsiders has increased. Districts outside Beijing have set up checkpoints, and some villages have created their own de facto quarantines, ordering residents not to leave and barring anyone from coming in. Before the end of the national holiday on Sunday, officials have tried to persuade local residents not to treat those returning for work or school with hostility.

Riding the subway in Beijing.

 

Pinterest

 Riding the subway in Beijing. Photograph: Mark Schiefelbein/AP

“As long as they have not been confirmed with the virus and there are no obvious signs of fever or cough, returnees should be allowed to freely enter and leave the community,” Zhao Jigui, deputy director of the Beijing municipal civil affairs bureau, said last Friday, referring to the districts or neighbourhoods where residents live. “Each district is a family and we must support each other,” Zhao added.

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Across China, cities have turned into ghost towns as residents cloister themselves at home to avoid the new coronavirus, which has killed more than 200 people and infected almost 10,000 as it has reached every province, territory and municipality in China, as well as 19 other countries.

As the crisis, now declared a global health emergency, widens and more countries issue travel warnings for China, or cut off transport links, frustration and anxiety, as well as boredom, have grown.

“I haven’t been outside in a week,” said Yang, 39, an entrepreneur based in Shanghai who lives with his wife and newborn child. “I’m on self-imposed house arrest. I just don’t want to bring it back to the house.”

In Hubei province, the heart of the outbreak, where most of the deaths have occurred, residents live an even more isolated life. In a county near Huanggang, the worst-hit city after Wuhan, Li, 31, who works at a bank, has been at home with her parents for a week. The roads are shut.

 

Now, I dare not look at the news. Every day there are people dying

Li, 31, Hubei province

Every day she hears a loudspeaker twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon advising residents not to go out. The neighbourhood committee visits residents every day to check on them. Two families in her neighbourhood – a couple who recently visited Wuhan and another who’ve been to Huanggang, a city a few kilometres east – have signs on their doors advising other residents not to visit.

Whenever a family member takes the rubbish out, one of the few times they leave, they are disinfected as soon as they return. Li is most anxious about the risks health workers are taking and the lack of supplies at hospitals. “I dare not look at the news. Every day people are dying,” she said.

In the face of public anger over what many see as the government’s slow and ham-fisted response to an outbreak first detected on 8 December, Chinese authorities have tried to appear decisive and transparent.

After widespread traffic restrictions that put about 50 million people in Hubei province under lockdown, Chinese leader Xi Jinping described the coronavirus epidemic as a demon. “We cannot let this demon hide,” he said on Tuesday, promising the “timely release of information” domestically and internationally. Following a directive vowing to hold local officials accountable, a health official in Huanggang was fired.

An old man wearing a medical mask walks in the village at sunrise in Jianli county, Hubei province.

 

Pinterest

 Walking in the village at sunrise in Jianli county, Hubei province. Photograph: Liu Tao/EPA

But criticism and mistrust have grown. Chinese internet users say officials are “tossing the pot”, or passing the buck, by blaming other departments or other officials for the crisis. Reports of desperate conditions in Hubei, where many residents have told of not being able to get help or reach hospitals where staff are overworked and undersupplied, have only increased public anger.

China’s Red Cross, in charge of all donations, has come under fire for distributing only an eighth of funds it has received, even as a doctor in Wuhan said that his hospital had run out of protective medical equipment. Photos posted online showed staff making protective gear out of garbage bags and bedsheets. A 17-year-old boy with cerebral palsy reportedly died from hunger in Huanggang last week after his father and brother were quarantined.

A study published on Wednesday compounded the frustrations. The study in The New England Journal of Medicine used data from the first 425 cases in Wuhan and found evidence of human-to-human transmission in mid-December. Until 20 January, Chinese officials had insisted that there was no evidence the disease was transmissible by humans and that the virus was still manageable.

“What is the cost of being lied to? It’s not that we will mistake lies for truth. The real danger is that if we listen to too many lies, we can no longer recognise facts,” read one of the most popular comments in response to the study. “We don’t care who the heroes are. All we want to know is whose fault this is.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/01/across-china-cities-turn-into-ghost-towns-as-coronavirus-infects-more-than-10000

NorthReport

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NorthReport
NorthReport

Coronavirus map tracks the spread of the virus across the world

 

How fast did the virus spread?

  • December 8: First signs of symptoms among stallholders in a Wuhan seafood market
  • January 1: Market closed to contain the outbreak
  • January 10: Gene sequencing confirms the virus is new
  • January 13: First international case reported in Thailand
  • January 16: Case confirmed in Japan
  • January 20: Cases confirmed in South Korea
  • January 21: Cases confirmed in Taiwan and the US
  • January 23: Cases confirmed in Vietnam, Singapore
  • January 24: The virus reaches Europe, with two confirmed cases in France
  • January 25: The first case confirmed in Australia
  • January 29: Four confirmed cases in United Arab Emirates and one in Finland
  • January 30: 20 countries with confirmed cases of the virus

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-31/coronavirus-map-tracks-spread-throughout-world/11912828

NorthReport

 

From Patient Zero to nearly 12,000 cases: The spread of coronavirus

China’s leaders prioritize political stability over all else. That likely allowed the virus to spread in the critical weeks after the first cases appeared in Wuhan.

Border restrictions intensify as number of confirmed cases grows

 

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
Sean in Ottawa

This is for Americans. The story is similar for Canadians. Both with a big "for now" and both speaking about North America. Where the disease is present in numbers it is a greter threat than influenze. Let's not look at this from just a here-and-now American viewpoint shall we?

for now we are lucky enough that the flu remains the greatest threat in the present for us but that is not the global reality and our country has to look ahead and prepare if this may change.

NorthReport
NorthReport

Fury in China as footage appears to show officials taking doctors' face masks

Local and central government officials face growing wave of anger over handling of coronavirus outbreak

 in Beijing

Sun 2 Feb 2020 14.37 GMTLast modified on Sun 2 Feb 2020 20.20 GMT

Woman wears a face mask

 

 Wuhan government has promised to ‘standardise the distribution of protective gear for frontline workers’. Photograph: Ritchie Tongo/EPA

Footage of government officials in Wuhan appearing to take face masks intended for health workers battling the highly infectious coronavirus has fuelled a growing wave of anger over how Chinese authorities have handled the outbreak.

Images of medical staff making protective equipment out of rubbish bags, sleeping in hospitals, and crying in frustration and exhaustion have dominated Chinese social media over the last two weeks, inspiring an outpouring of sympathy and donations of supplies.

A video posted by Beijing News on Sunday appeared to show government workers taking some of those donated supplies. A statement from the Wuhan government said that personnel attending a meeting on emergency supplies on Saturday had “received masks and other related protective supplies” from China’s Red Cross, which is overseeing donations.

“We will further standardise the collection, storage, and distribution of protective gear for frontline workers … Thank you to the media for their attention and supervision,” the statement said, according to images of it posted by Beijing News.

Other photos showed officials wearing specialised N95 respirator masks in a meeting with doctors who wore surgical masks.

A screenshot from Weibo showing officials wearing specialised N95 respirator masks.

 A screenshot from Weibo showing officials wearing specialised N95 respirator masks. Photograph: Weibo

Online commentators were quick to criticise the statement and footage, generating more than 2m views for comments with the hashtag “Wuhan government responds to taking personnel face masks”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/02/shameless-outrage-china-coronavirus-outbreak-mask

NorthReport

Coronavirus: Vietnam backtracks on Hong Kong flight ban, restricts travellers from mainland China

  • Vietnam declares public health emergency and halts all flights to and from mainland China
  • Government will also stop issuing visas for foreign visitors who had been in China in past two weeks

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3048578/coronavirus-vietnam-backtracks-hong-kong-flight-ban

NorthReport

China starts clinical trials for new antiviral drug to treat coronavirus

  • Remdesivir, developed by Gilead Sciences, was last week given to US patient whose condition appeared to improve within a day
  • Tests are being carried out at multiple hospitals in Wuhan, ground zero of the outbreak

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048732/china-starts-clinical-trials-new-antiviral-drug-treat

NorthReport

Latest stats from John Hopkins U

17,491 confirmed cases

362 deaths or 2.07% 

536 no longer ill

NorthReport

Coronavirus: US actions are ‘science based’ and aren’t overreaction, health official says

  • Measures including a travel ban are aimed at ‘slowing the entry of the virus into the United States’, according to health agency
  • CDC says it is still waiting for details from Beijing on sending a team to Wuhan to help with epidemiological work

Bhavan Jaipragas

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3048801/coronavirus-us-actions-are-science-based-and-arent-overreaction-health

Sean in Ottawa

The Chinese response is a giant contradiction.

This is not to say that there is no racism in the public and media -- however: the US travel restrictions on China for this virus are not racist if you consider that the Chinese are using travel restrictions themselves to slow the spread of the disease.

Scientists have modeled travel restrictions and stated that overall they delay infection but do not stop it. This is fair enough but if you consider that vaccines being rushed to development may make a delay become a stop. This is why upthread I defended the Chinese for their travel restriction measures as legitimately helpful buying time. The US resposne is similar.

The US has another reality in that the public and state sector there is much smaller as a part of the economy. For this reason the kinds of options China has may not be as avaiable. China can make giant policies that allow the country to survive lockdowns whereas in the US the country probably cannot prevent bankruptcy and national economic failure if they tried to weather the storm as China is. As well I am not sure how efficient the health systems are. I think they are very different and the US has some advantages but it also has serious disadvantages. These disadvantages include the number of people without health care and the number of people who cannot leave work without penalty to seek health care. US public policy is glacial compared to the speed of Chinese decisions. The US would be aware of the need to slow transmission even if they could not prevent it eventually getting there -- even just to buy time to have a public response.

It is not unreasonable to consider all of China a risk since the state has itself done so with most of the country. Again Chinese policy is contradicting its rhetoric. Major cities like Shanghai are delaying back to work to control the spread of the disease as well as the cities in the outbreak.

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

Latest stats from John Hopkins U

17,491 confirmed cases

362 deaths or 2.07% 

536 no longer ill

This no-longer ill number is very low. It really shows that you cannot compare the death rate with the infection rate as you cannot know the final result of those infected and still sick.

I cannot provide links as I read these earlier on my phone but people can google if they do not believe me: There is much speculation on how virulant this is. Some reports say that it could have a death rate of up to ten percent (Lancet) others speculate that large numbers may have had it and recovered without knowing they had it meaning it could have a very low death rate and that we only hear of the most seriously ill. There are also ranges in terms of presumptions of how infectious it is -- in part for this reason as people may be carrying it and not know or be ill. 

As people reading this probably know, it is the combination of infection and death rate that makes the difference. The Spanish flu had a low death rate and a high infection rate and therefore killed a vast number of people. Some have speculated that this could be the case: a fairly low eventual death rate but higher transmission (particularly becuase it can be asymptomatic) so a high death number.

As well there are conflicting reports from experts on how long a cure may take with some saying that this could take a year and the  outbreak could be over or that something could be rushed through quickly. This explains efforts to slow transmission.

It seems to me that the best evidence being combinations of evidence suggests that we really do not know how infectious it is, what the death rate is, or how long it will take to get a vaccine. This means that we do not know how serious this is and that those who say it is almost over or those who say that this will certainly lead to a serious global pandemic ought to be met with generous doses of skepticism. Both extremes are most newsworthy and liable to attract attention from people who want answers that may not yet be available. It sucks not to know but that is wher ethe world probably is.

To make matters worse the truth and the public interest may not be perfectly aligned. Public policy strategies to contain economic damage and prevent panic -- or to increase prevention and cooperation with efforts to control it -- could lead to presumed justification for large scale deceptions. If you have public agencies in different countries adopt different strategies it is possible that you could see deception from national communications in addition to deception through misinformation just dsigned to get attention. these national agencies may or may not have public health as their chief concern. Econmics and politics are competitors for that.

NorthReport

The number of deaths continues to hover just over 2% 

Latest and rapidly growing confirmed stats are

Confirmed 20,001

Deaths 426 or 2.13%

Recovered 623 or 3.11%

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

The number of deaths continues to hover just over 2% 

Latest and rapidly growing confirmed stats are

Confirmed 20,001

Deaths 426 or 2.13%

Recovered 623 or 3.11%

death rate meaningless when recovered rate is this low as I said above

NorthReport

If the truth be known - better not short the stock market tomorrow, eh! 

New coronavirus may be no more dangerous than the flu, despite worldwide alarm: experts

The apparently high initial mortality rates have shrunk as the number of infections grows, and many of the infected appear to have mild or no symptoms

https://vancouversun.com/health/new-coronavirus-may-be-no-more-dangerous-than-the-flu-despite-worldwide-alarm-experts/wcm/60f48752-e0dc-4960-9112-1431f00d4204

 

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

If the truth be known - better not short the stock market tomorrow, eh! 

New coronavirus may be no more dangerous than the flu, despite worldwide alarm: experts

The apparently high initial mortality rates have shrunk as the number of infections grows, and many of the infected appear to have mild or no symptoms

https://vancouversun.com/health/new-coronavirus-may-be-no-more-dangerous-than-the-flu-despite-worldwide-alarm-experts/wcm/60f48752-e0dc-4960-9112-1431f00d4204

 

Uhuh: "may be"

bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

The number of deaths continues to hover just over 2% 

3.1% in Hubei province. In China outside of Hubei province, 0.2%

Sean in Ottawa

bekayne wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

The number of deaths continues to hover just over 2% 

3.1% in Hubei province. In China outside of Hubei province, 0.2%

Entirely explainable by the fact that outside is more recent so some who may die have not yet. Really there is nothing here that is useful in terms of predictions.

NorthReport

Why doesn't Hong Kong close the border with mainland China?

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:
Why doesn't Hong Kong close the border with mainland China?

I am not aware of their rationale or of the nature of their preparations or precautions. It is possible that they are checking the poeple as they go in -- I do not know.

kropotkin1951

Hong Kong is part of China is the simple answer and so far the whole country is not being quarantined. They have quarantined the part of China where the outbreak has occurred, why would they close an internal border thousands of kilometers away.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Hong Kong is part of China is the simple answer and so far the whole country is not being quarantined. They have quarantined the part of China where the outbreak has occurred, why would they close an internal border thousands of kilometers away.

While true, this does not mean that the authorities in Hong Kong could not close the border if they felt that it would help contain the virus. This is why I said I do not know the rationale since many locations in the country are restricting travel. The approach being taken in China is clearly severe travel restrictions where considered helpful to slow the disease. While outside China other countries have criticized this apporach, most have adopted it with far less of a reason than Hong Kong.

BTW Hong Kong is not as far from Wuhan as that. It is only slightly further than Shanghai. I think less than 1000 km. Wuhan is very central -- smack in the middle of the country. The distances to Yunnan in the West, Shanghai in the East and Hong Kong in the South are all not much different -- even Beijing in the North East is not all that much further.

At issue is not actually the distance, certainly not the political status of the regions, but more likely flow of people and local preparations. I am sure a medical risk was evaluated and determined to not warrant the move.

 

kropotkin1951

You are right I should not have pluralized thousand. It is just over a thousand kilometers away, about the same distance as Vancouver to Calgary or Moncton to Ottawa.

The Hong Kong government has no authority in its relationship to China or the outside world, it is a subordinate level of government to the central state of China. It does not have the power to close the border anymore than BC can close its border to Alberta oil or citizens.  Even if it did have some power under emergency health regulations it is still not going to go against the coordinated efforts of the central government.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

You are right I should not have pluralized thousand. It is just over a thousand kilometers away, about the same distance as Vancouver to Calgary or Moncton to Ottawa.

The Hong Kong government has no authority in its relationship to China or the outside world, it is a subordinate level of government to the central state of China. It does not have the power to close the border anymore than BC can close its border to Alberta oil or citizens.  Even if it did have some power under emergency health regulations it is still not going to go against the coordinated efforts of the central government.

This is not what we have been told. They said they had the authority and decided aghainst it. I suspect that other local levels in China also have the authority to do this. I would imagine considerable cooperation between levels of government and that the central government can over rule but I doubt a local authority that wanted to could not. Why do you think they do not have this authority? I also think that in a health emergency it could be done here.

kropotkin1951

Why do you think a centrally controlled country would allow a national emergency to be handled independently by 33 provincial type governments or 334 prefectures the next tier down in their administrative system? That sounds like a recipe for confusion. Strange how the Western media narrative about almost all other issues is that Xi Jinping controls everything personally. I think that China has a very effective administration with large room for autonomous decisions in the lower levels of government but I also believe anything that affects China as a whole is not dealt with by the lower levels of administration.

I merely stating my believe  about how I think the Chinese a system works on the ground.  I do not live under it so I am just making guesses, others are free to believe what they want.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Why do you think a centrally controlled country would allow a national emergency to be handled independently by 33 provincial type governments or 334 prefectures the next tier down in their administrative system? That sounds like a recipe for confusion. Strange how the Western media narrative about almost all other issues is that Xi Jinping controls everything personally. I think that China has a very effective administration with large room for autonomous decisions in the lower levels of government but I also believe anything that affects China as a whole is not dealt with by the lower levels of administration.

I merely stating my believe  about how I think the Chinese a system works on the ground.  I do not live under it so I am just making guesses, others are free to believe what they want.

You partly answered yourself in saying they have centrally controlled system with some autonomous authority if you just ask why.

The local authorities can act faster and often have access to more up-to-date information and can focus on local needs over a national average. I have spent a lot of time in conversation with visiting people from China and a number were professors who also worked with the government. China has a reputation for central authority but has a lot of autonomy in regions to respond to things based on local needs and speed. (For many years, I had a steady stream of Chinese visiting professors stay in my house while they worked with the University of Ottawa.)

I think a local health authority speaking to a local authority would be able to measure the infomration regarding travel restrictions at a local level very much more efficiently. They would of course be in conversation with national authorities and share a lot of best practices. There is every indication that China is using travel restrictions to slow the virus. I am sure that the local mayors, regional admistrative regions would have a lot of say. I think the Chinese government wants to effectively control the spread of the virus doing as little long term and short term harm to the daily lives and economy. I am sure local government contributes to these decisions. As well, the Communist party in China itself has top down control to be sure but it also has bottom up people on the ground in the regions and infomration is filtered back up. China is much more centralised than it used to be in some respects but I think the idea that it is all run from Beijing is somewhat mythical. Their local authorities are not that much different than ours. This outbreak has the country mobilized. I hardly think that the cities and regions are shut out of all decisions like this. I do not know exactly how the decision was made not to close the border but I would not guess that there was no local input. My guess is that when a decision affect only a local region that this region is very much involved. In the case of Hong Kong they ave a lot of local structures to gather information.

kropotkin1951

"I hardly think that the cities and regions are shut out of all decisions like this."

I don't think they are either. Please I don't have the time to respond to all the things you read into my posts that I do not intend to convey. I am sorry my writing style is not good enough for you so please don't bother answering anything I say and I will try not to directly speak to your posts either.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

"I hardly think that the cities and regions are shut out of all decisions like this."

I don't think they are either. Please I don't have the time to respond to all the things you read into my posts that I do not intend to convey. I am sorry my writing style is not good enough for you so please don't bother answering anything I say and I will try not to directly speak to your posts either.

okay

NorthReport

Hong Kong to quarantine all visitors from China as coronavirus death toll

soarshttps://www.cnn.com/2020/02/05/asia/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl-hnk/index.html

NorthReport

Has Canada stopped all flights to and from China now?

NorthReport

Chinese scholar blames Xi Jinping, Communist Party for not controlling coronavirus outbreak

  • Beijing’s crackdown on civil society, freedom of expression made it impossible for people to raise the alarm about the situation, Tsinghua University professor Xu Zhangrun says in online article
  • Intellectual Xu Zhiyong repeats his call for ‘not very smart’ Xi to step down as leader

     

     

     Sohu Sohu

    Tsinghua University Xu Zhangrun blames Chinese Communist Party leaders for putting politics ahead of the people. Photo: Sohu

    A prominent Chinese scholar has published an article criticising the country’s leadership for failing to control the 

    coronavirus outbreak

     that has infected almost 25,000 people around the world.

    Xu Zhangrun, a law professor at Tsinghua University in Beijing, who has been under close surveillance by the authorities, blamed Communist Party leaders for putting politics ahead of the people in his strongly worded piece, which was published on several overseas Chinese-language websites this week.

    “The political system has collapsed under the tyranny, and a governance system [made up] of bureaucrats, which has taken [the party] more than 30 years to build has floundered,” he said in a reference to how reform-minded leaders sought to rebuild the country and modernise the government after the death of Mao Zedong in 1976 and moved away from one-man rule to collective leadership.

    Xu was suspended from teaching at Tsinghua University in 2018, after the publication of an article in which he criticised the decision by party leaders to lift the two-term limit for presidents, allowing Xi Jinping to remain in office beyond his second term, which ends in 2023.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3049233/chinese-scholar-blames-xi-jinping-communist-party-not

Sean in Ottawa

NorthReport wrote:

Has Canada stopped all flights to and from China now?

Yes

NorthReport

Added May 3 20

Thinking has evolved on this issue.

Apparently face masks and gloves do more harm than good at least on planes Frequent thorough washing of hands is most effective according to an airline affiliated doctor the article is in the scmp

Added May 3 20

Thinking has evolved on this issue.

NorthReport
NorthReport

Apr 13 social distancing, wash your hands and wear a mask
‐--------------------

How to prevent coronavirus: Wash your hands and ditch the mask

 

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-02-05/how-to-prevent-coronavirus-wash-your-hands

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