Malaysian plane crash part 2

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Malaysian plane crash part 2

Continued from here.

swallow swallow's picture

[url=]MH370: Malaysia declares flight disappearance an accident[/url]

A real tragedy. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

What are you two on about? This is a continuation thread about the downing of MH-17.

Nice try for a distraction. OMFG.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Yeah from what I read the black boxes indicated to would seem they climbed to steep, stalled out, then fell out of the sky... wind sheer from the thunder storm they were in might have played a role as well.

swallow swallow's picture

Oh, did you want a Ukraine thread? Sorry, I just read the thread title. Both planes had tragic loss of life. Did you think the lives on one palne were worth more discussion than the other? 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

That's quite obtuse. If you had bothered to check the link from our overworked moderator, then you would have seen that it links to the thread on MH-17.

In case anyone missed the excellent documentary on MH-17 by RT, here is a link:

Reflections on MH-17: Published on Jan 16, 2015 The tragedy of MH17 in which 298 people lost their lives, made the conflict in Ukraine real for many other countries. While the international community awaits the outcome of the crash investigation, speculation in the media continues to fuel the blame game. RTD travels far and wide to interview international experts on what has hindered the investigation, what procedures were needed to collect vital evidence and what might have brought down the ill-fated Boeing 777.

Incidentally, RT has now passed 2 Billion views on YouTube. They are the first news network to do so. Amazing.



On the whole WRT Ukraine, fascists and their supporters are running out of talking points.  Nowadays they're mainly given to distraction and jibberish in lieu of the barely plausible ventroloquism they've been spouting for months.

swallow swallow's picture

I suggest retitling the thread to include the word Ukraine, then. Actually, we probably need a Ukraine forum. 


How MH17 Was Shot Down - Analysis By Colonel Cassad

"Colonel Cassad has just published an interesting analysis about how MH17 was shot down...

We cannot let Russia be alone in demanding that the full truth be revealed about this atrocity."

lots of interesting comments here as well

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Down the memory hole, I'm afraid. The Western NATO regimes don't want this investigation to report and, with the Ukrainian junta having a veto on publishing the results of the investigation, the report can be indefinitely postponed.

When Banderistan [the state formerly known as Ukraine] is completely de-Nazified, and the new government itself wants the truth to come out, then we'll see the publication of the uncensored investigation.

That's going to be a very long time. 5 billion $US over 20 years paid for a lot of brainwashing. And in Galicia it was fertile soil to begin with.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

[Lack of Memory] hole is more like it. Now it's back to A to A missles AND cannon fire... again. Wink


But a very convincing argument it makes. Looks like Bec's BuK theory is a gonerLaughing

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Now you're being silly.

Yes let's ignore the basic principles of ballistics for the sake of partisan politics. 


Yeah sure Bec - whatever Uncle Sam's selling you're always the pitchman it seems. From Assad's poison gas to Yanukovych's Maidan snipers to Russian tanks in Donbass. Anyway  I'm suprised you or your little cohort of America's Word police, didn't already drop this steaming pile. But since you haven't, I will - no doubt your expert analysis will approve it all -  have a party, cawWink


I still don't see the issue.  The passengers on the plane are now on Mount Shasta swilling back Dark & Stormy's (collected on their way thru the Bermuda Triangle).  Of course Amelia Earhart and Judge Crater are with them.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

What will happen? Well, consider other similar examples from the past...

Pepe Escobar wrote:
it is in any case the nature of these kind of attacks that makes it impossible to identify the perpetrator. In the past sixty years it happened twenty times that an airliner was shot from the air during a military action, usually by accident, by a ground-to-air-rocket or a fighter jet. In all cases things were settled outside the courtroom. Parties were bribed. Even if there was no doubt about the evidence, like in 2001, when Ukraine downed an airliner with a rocket. The political interests always prevailed over the truth. The MH17 case won’t be an exception to this.

The political interests here are for the pre-determined result: blame the "pro-Russian" resistance. Blame Russian President Putin. To hell with the facts.

There's a new book out.

MH-17: The Cover-Up Deal: That's the title of the explosive book published yesterday in Holland by journalist Joost Niemoller.

Lots of media coverage, right?


Only one of the major Dutch newspapers - De Volkskrant - allowed Niemoller to talk about the book. Here's the translation:

"Three months after the attack, the discontent and frustration regarding MH17 in the Netherlands seems to increase more and more. The anger is aimed at the government, but the government appears to be unable to give satisfying answers about the perpetrator of the crash ...

Book by Dutch Journalist Alleges MH-17 Cover-Up


US Intel Stands Pat on MH17 Shoot Down  -  by Robert Parry

"Almost eight months after MH-17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine - creating a flashpoint in the standoff between nuclear armed Russia and America - the US intelligence community claims it has not updated its assessment since five days after the crash, reports Robert Parry..."


MH17; Why We Still Don't Know What Happened  - a documentary by Peter Vlemmix

"Much is not what it seems around the tragedy of the Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17, which was shot down above the Ukraine on July 17, 2014. This video challenges the immediate reflex of the establishment media and governments, explaining the true story behind the events and the loopholes in the official investigation." - Peter Vlemmix


Dutch Dismiss Reports Alleging MH17 Downed By BUK Missile

Doug Woodard

An interesting discussion here on the missile from post number 1562:



MH-17 Investigation Going Off in 'Wrong Direction' Could Embarrass 'Many Powerful People'

"The US intelligence community is failing to share its own discoveries into the crash, fearing it will lead the investigation in the 'wrong' direction, Robert Parry told RT."

Doug Woodard

A Dutch journalist's investigations:



DOUBLE Dutch!...

MH17 Leaked Dutch Foreign Office Email

Notice how quickly they did the GermanWings crash compared to this one. I think most people will draw the appropriate conclusions...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Malaysian Airlines M17: 30 mm Canon Bullet Discovered in MH17 Wreckage

That's exactly the sort of shell that would have been used in an air-to-air attack (i.e., Ukrainian AF) on MH-17.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Malaysian Airlines M17: 30 mm Canon Bullet Discovered in MH17 Wreckage

That's exactly the sort of shell that would have been used in an air-to-air attack (i.e., Ukrainian AF) on MH-17.

LOL that picture is from a different aircraft shoot down site, probably a Ukrainian SU 25.

If you follow the links to the original Youtube video that picture is taken from the guy shown picking up this "bullet" (in that picture) is then shown standing by a section of wing that has the Ukrainian Air Force rondel on it (1:30 to 1:50).

That's what you get for posting stuff from globalreseach. 


ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Doug Woodard wrote:
By the way, do you associate yourself with the video commentor's claim that the UK media is largely Zionist controlled? Are you trying to tell us that the Ukrainian government is both Zionist and Nazi? There seems to be a certain incompatibility here. Please explain.

I guess I should also ask if you support the Harper regime's plan to make criticism of Israel a crime. That would make your question a kind of provocation, wouldn't it?

In any case, as is well known, Ukrainian oligarch and Zionist Igor Kolomoisky has been supporting private death squads, Right Sector and Svoboda militias, as well as the neo-Nazi Azov Battallion. So I guess that meets your criteria?

Unless, of course, criticizing Israel is a crime.

Doug Woodard

ikosmos, projectiles from 30 mm aircraft cannon are called solid "shot", or "shells" (explosive filled). Shot are normally tungsten or more often depleted uranium for armour penetration; high-density thin rods with pointed noses and detachable surrounds to engage the bore and its rifling and provide a gas seal. Shells explode on contact and based on the photos of World War II battle damage from 20 mm cannon that I have seen (holes of 10 inches/25 cm diameter), would be expected to leave holes of 35-40 cm diameter in a normal aircraft structure. We don't see such holes in photos of the damage to this aircraft.

An attack with cannon by one aircraft on another would use explosive shells or a mixture of projectile types. Exclusively solid shot would be most unlikely to be used in attacking anything but armoured vehicles. In any case an attack by a fighter on a large aircraft would more likely use air to air missiles; probably heat seekers which would impact in or around one or both engines.

The photo seems to show a shell that has had the fuse removed (lacks the usual aerodynamically shaped pointed nose). The shell does not show the rifling marks which one would expect from a fired shell, nor any traces (except the absence of the possibly defective fuse) of a high-velocity impact. The surface or the shell is of an oddly uniform texture which makes me suspect retouching of the photo.

The hand holding the shell appears to have a deformed thumb. The hand around the thumb appears to be deformed. The fingers on the other side of the shell look odd and seem to lack nails. The hand and fingers seem to have a peculiarly uniform texture. It looks to me as if the photo has been crudely retouched.

By the way, do you associate yourself with the video commentor's claim that the UK media is largely Zionist controlled? Are you trying to tell us that the Ukrainian government is both Zionist and Nazi? There seems to be a certain incompatibility here. Please explain.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

The photo is not video from the MH-17 crash site...


.... as Global Research has now acknowledged. (Blaming it all on CNN, FWIW.)


Novaya Gazeta Report on MH17 Shootdown: The Actual Proof

"Ballistics don't lie and here they paint a relatively clear picture...


Fake Evidence Blaming Russia for MH-17?  - by Robert Parry

"[An Australian News Program is] Pointing the finger of blame at Russian President Putin for the Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 shoot-down-mystery-the Russians did it! - but the program appears to have faked a key piece of evidence and there remains many of the same doubts as before,

along with the dog-not-barking question of why the US government has witheld its intelligence data."


MH17 Was Downed By Guided Missile - BUK Manufacturer

"Russia's air defense systems manufacturer Almaz-Antey presented its report on the 2014 flight MH17 disaster at a press conference on Tuesday. Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was downed by a BUK 9M38-M1 guided missile fired from Ukrainian military-controlled territory, engineers from the Russian Almaz-Antey corporation said.

'During the first stage of our investigations, the type of system was established. It was a BUK-M1 system [NATO reporting name SA-11], a 9M38-M1 rocket and a 9M314 warhead,' head engineer Mikhail Malyshev said.

The Russian military uses BUK 9M37 missiles. The missile identified in the damage report was not produced in the Russian Federation since 1999, which is before Almaz-Antey was founded in 2002

As of 2005, Ukraine had 991 BUK9M38-M1 missiles according to the report. The manufacturer's investigation and comparative analysis of shrapnel revealed that missile was fired from an area south of the village of Zaroshenskoye, territory controlled by the Ukrainian military at the time."


BUK Missile Manufacturer on MH17 Shooting - LIVE UPDATES


Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

NDPP wrote:

But a very convincing argument it makes. Looks like Bec's BuK theory is a goner


And there you were insisting it was a its a BUK again. You guys have no shame.


And they want to shoot another plane out of the sky to prove what? Maybe they should let the professionals do their jobs. Someone might get hurt - again.



Russian Investigators Reveal Identity of Key Witness in MH17 Crash (and vid/audio)

@Bec: IF it was surface to air it could only have been a 9M38M1 missile of the Buk M1 system

"In the meantime, Almaz-Antey's experts said they had not 'theoretically' excluded the possibility that the Boeing was hit by another type of weapon, such as an air-to-air missile. They cautioned that final conclusions could only be drawn after all the necessary forensic tests had been conducted by the official investigative commission."

and again the US spy satellites presence in the area was cited and questions again raised as to the unwillingness of Uncle Sam to bring this evidence to the table...

I think most can guess why that might be...

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

NDPP wrote:

@Bec: IF it was surface to air it could only have been a 9M38M1 missile of the Buk M1 system


Based on what, becouse the Russians said so? And what does that prove? ...nothing really.

Nobody here said Russia shot the airliner down; the rebels probably did by accident. At the very least it shows Russia gave the rebels (or they had captured) an older version of the missile. 


All of the circumstantial evidence indicates it was a Ukrainian shoot-down. Furthermore, the antics of Ukraine vis a vis the investigation and veto powers etc, as well as the US refusal to release their satellite info, tells me pretty much everything I need to know already I think...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Malaysia, quite rightly, is sick and tired of the lying BS from the US and its client regimes.*

Eric Zuesse wrote:
Malaysia, frustrated by the refusal of the official international investigation-team to produce any clear evidence yet of whom to blame for the downing of the MH17 Malaysian airliner over the Ukrainian civil-war zone on 17 July 2014, has finally forced the team to request the UN to investigate. They’ve forced the original four nations on the team to accept UN adjudication of any final report.

This will enable a court-proceeding to make the ultimate determination of guilt (upon which judgment penalties and compensation will be assessed), and this court-determination would inevitably allow whatever party is being blamed by the five-member official investigating team, to present its own evidence in the case, so that the court will make the ultimate determination — the official investigating team will not be performing that crucial judgmental function.

Malaysian Pressure Forces The MH17 Investigation to UN Adjudication

Mind you, this all presumes that a report of some kind will be released. The official investigating "team", however, can simply play hot potato with the report and take turns saying , "Nope. I'm against releasing the report," until hell freezes over.

Think of the jackboot Canadian regime with FN land claims. Just so. The different administrations play hot potato with different provincial regimes, back and forth, forever, stalling the settlements for centuries, literally.

So, while this is good news from Malaysia's point of view, it may make no difference to actually getting the real culprits.


* The original 4 members of the investigation team, Belgium, Netherlands, Australia and Ukraine, are all close military allies and political vassals of the US regime, or, in the case of Ukraine, an actual suspect in the downing of MH-17. None of this, of course, in the least bothers the propaganda bullhorns of the western MSM  which continues to "blame Russia", etc., or the resistance endlessly without a shred of evidence to substantiate such bellicose claims.

Supplemental: I re-quote Pepe Escobar from upthread as the quote is still relevant.


Pepe Escobar wrote:

"It is in any case the nature of these kind of attacks that makes it impossible to identify the perpetrator. In the past sixty years it happened twenty times that an airliner was shot from the air during a military action, usually by accident, by a ground-to-air-rocket or a fighter jet. In all cases things were settled outside the courtroom. Parties were bribed. Even if there was no doubt about the evidence, like in 2001, when Ukraine downed an airliner with a rocket. The political interests always prevailed over the truth. The MH17 case won’t be an exception to this."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Down the Rabbit Hole. And silence from the Western Main Stream Media. What a surprise.

Though the Western media has barely reported it, the Dutch led international accident investigation into the MH17 tragedy has drafted its initial report.

We know this because the Russian air transport agency Rosaviatsiya, which has seen the report, claims that it “raises more questions than it gives answers.”

This appears to suggest that the draft report avoids pinning responsibility on any specific party.

Which is to say the report will likely be inconclusive.

The article goes on to note that the Dutch "investigation" failed to carry out some of the fundamental requirements of such an investigation, i.e., like interviewing eyewitnesses (HTFG!) , with an anal retentive focus on technical aspects of the investigation, no mention of US surveillance data (or even if they bothered to ask the Orwellian US regime whether they "had" any data, etc.) and so on.

It looks like some "bait and switch" is going on now, much like the Ukrainian regime with its call for "Peacekeepers" at the same time as it bombs and kills civilians in the disputed area, in the calls for a "tribunal" while the actual report leaves a great deal to be desired.

Down the Rabbit Hole. Because Western imperialism says so.

Gore Vidal (1925-2012): "We live in the United States of Forget. Nobody remembers anything."


'Was There A 2nd Plane?' New Footage Shows MH17 Crash Site Minutes After Boeing Downing (and vid)

"News Corp Australia has obtained a previously unknown video allegedly taken minutes after Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 was downed in Ukraine exactly one year ago. The voices cited by the transcript of the full footage claim a warplane shot down the Boeing."


MH17 A Year Without Truth

"One year after the tragedy of flight MH17, RTD revisits the investigation into the Boeing 777 crash."


'MH-17 Crash Used by US to Break Russia's Relationship With Europe' - Paul Craig Roberts

"The crash of MH-17 has been used to enforce sanctions against Russia and is fundamental to Washington's efforts to break the Russia-Europe relationship, Paul Craig Roberts, former assistant secretary of the US Treasury, tells RT."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The Crosstalk Show is a good summary of things. One year later, what do we know? The whole thing has been stage-managed from the start, with incendiary accusations and claims by Yanqui Propaganda Ministers blaming Russia even before the investigators arrived at the site of the crash, etc.

RT wrote:
Investigations into the downing of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine are still inconclusive or incomplete a year on from the tragedy. However, this has not stopped the West and their media from apportioning blames, without facts and figures to back up their claims. The search for justice for the families of those killed on MH17 continues.

Remembering MH-17

- Russian press conference shortly after the event. using forensic evidence, radar data, etc.
- no such press conference from US side, then or since
- instead, reference to Twitter and social media are supposed to constitute evidence
- this was a theatrical event, stage-managed from the beginning, and therefore opinions are already formed about it... and that was the aim of such stage-management
- the evidence then becomes irrelevant, or down the rabbit-hole
- Ray McGovern is of the opinion that another Edward Snowden will, eventually, spill the beans from the US side, others agree
- so much credibility in invested in a particular narrative that contrary evidence is silenced
- McGovern noted the book, Warriors of Dis-Information, in which it was outlined how the then Soviet AF were fooled into thinking KAL007 was a spy plane, along with the Yanqui narrative of "deliberate shooting down of a civilian airliner", etc., which has since been proven to be a lie. Interesting historical comparison bringing out how the truth eventually emerged.

- mcGovern outlined an interesting principle of information warfare:  "If you lie first, you win."

- "MH-17 was the biggest media story in history ... until it wasn't. " former Canadian diplomat Patrick Armstrong

- Nethelands (Dutch Safety Board), a NATO-member state, is in charge of the investigation and running point for the US narrative. Even the victims' families are being shit upon.

- instead, the Dutch are talking about "a plausible scenario", i.e., a suitable fiction without any evidence to back it up.

- this incident, in large measure, justified the sanctions regime against Russia. And what happens to the sanctions if this turns out to have been the doing of the Ukrainian military?

- a stick used to inflame relations with Russia? How much are the European countries vassals of the US? What evidence will be released in the next while which may put the official narrative in doubt?

- a good summary, not overly detailed, noting the significance of the information war in this terrible tragedy.


Oh, dear. After ikosmos' multiple postings in this thread about how brave little anti-imperialist Malaysia has been standing firm against Western powers in the whole MH-17 investigation, this little tidbit of news. Malaysia has presented a proposal to the UN Security Council for an MH-17 tribunal. But this is being vigorously opposed by Russia. Awkward. 

The basic idea behind the Malaysian plan is to establish an ad hoc court, recognised by the United Nations, to which the prosecutors and detectives involved in a five-nation joint investigation of the MH17 incident would submit their final dossier. The resolution is co-sponsored by Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Ukraine – the countries who, along with Malaysia, are members of the joint investigation team. Several other Western countries, including the United Kingdom, have voiced support for the idea.

Russia has vigorously opposed the proposals, saying that it is outside the UN’s realm of responsibility, and has indicated that it may use its Security Council veto to block such a tribunal...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

That garbage has already been dealt with. I guess that's why you post it anyway, huh?

This is the same slimy Yanqui-inspired strategy that the Ukrainian junta has been using recently; they keep bombing the civilians in the Donbass, sabotaging the Minsk Agreement, while piggishly oinking that there need to be "Peacekeepers" in the area. It's all a crock of shit.

Similarly, by making their Yanqui-dictated report "final" , then they don't have to submit to cross-examination by the legal representatives of the families, those accused in the Western MSM echo chamber, etc., and simply give the NATO member states, the accused Ukrainian junta, and Malaysia, now slapped into obedience, the chance to publish their lies as "a final report".

Pepe Escobar was right. The political BS will hold sway, and, even if the families successfully sue the ass off the brutal Ukrainian fascist regime for their disgusting atrocity, it will all be swept under the rug and the facts will be hidden from the public forever.

Just like they're doing right now, with NATO and allied vassals Netherlands, Belgium, Australia and fascist Ukraine.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

On July 29, 2014, we Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) suggested that the United States Government report publicly what intelligence it actually had relating to the shoot-down lest the incident turn into another paroxysm of blaming Russia without cause. We are still waiting for that report....

In light of the high stakes involved both in terms of our extremely important relationship with Russia as well as in establishing a trustworthy narrative that does credit to the White House, the failure of the Administration to issue a coordinated intelligence assessment summarizing what evidence exists to determine who was responsible is therefore puzzling. If the United States government knows who carried out the attack on the plane it should produce the evidence. If it does not know, it should say so....

At a minimum, the White House and State Department one year ago displayed unseemly haste in deciding to be first out of the starting gate with a narrative implicating Russia, at least indirectly – a narrative that may not be based on fact. That twelve months have passed and there has been no effort made to either correct or amplify the record is unacceptable....

Mr. President, we believe you need to seek out honest intelligence analysts now and hear them out, particularly if they are challenging or even opposing the prevailing groupthink narrative. They might well convince you to take steps to deal more forthrightly with the shoot-down of MH-17 and minimize the risk that relations with Russia might degenerate into a replay of the Cold War with the threat of escalation into thermonuclear conflict. In all candor, we suspect that at least some of your advisers fail to appreciate the enormity of that danger.

The courtesy of a reply is requested.

What follows is a very impressive list of US intelligence experts who signed the note.

Obama Should Release MH-17 Intel


Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Thanks for the link, that's an interesting and informative letter. I recognized the names of several signatories, and they do seem to be a well qualified and informed group. Unfortunately, many of them have already been labelled as troublemakers. Several have even been prosecuted for revealing government crimes (eg. Thomas Drake and John Kiriakou). So, while the authors have great credibilty with me, it is most unlikely that the administration will respond to them in any way, or that the elite media will even take note of their challenge.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:
... while the authors have great credibilty with me, it is most unlikely that the administration will respond to them in any way, or that the elite media will even take note of their challenge.

It's still a useful exercise and journalists may enjoy lobbing hand g*enades to State Department mouthpieces about the memorandum. Furthermore, whatever the US MSM echo chamber says, or does, other MSM is not so uniformly tendentious. Presidents do, sometimes, answer questions despite the skillful efforts of their army of handlers.


Besides the Republicans, out of sheer cussed anti-Obama spite, might publish the intelligence should their candidate be elected to POTUS.

Yeah, they're that far gone IMHO. It's charming, a sage once wrote, to see one odious prejudice overcome by another. heh.


Russia Vetoes MH17 Tribunal Draft at UN Security Council (and vid/audio)

"Russia has vetoed a draft of a UN Security Council resolution calling for an international tribunal on the crash of the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight over eastern Ukraine last July and classifying the plane's downing as a threat to peace and security. 11 UNSC members voted in support of the Malaysian-proposed draft resolution, with Angola, Venezuela, and China abstaining...Russia applied its veto right as a permanent UNSC member.

The Russian envoy also stressed Malaysia and its backers submitted the resolution already knowing that it would be vetoed. 'This in our view indicates the fact that political purposes were more important for them than practical objectives. This of course is regrettable, he said.'


MH17 Crash Tribunal Would 'Extend Dutch-Led Investigation Indefinitely' (and audio)

"Why set up a tribunal or even talk about setting up a tribunal before we know what the results of the international investigation are? It is a case of putting the cart before the horse.  The only purpose presumably would be to make a kind of political point, or rather to make a propaganda point, because that's what it would amount to.

It would be a way of showing that Russia is obstructing the setting up of the enquiry and certain people in the West, in the media, and Western governments would try to spin that  to mean what they want it to mean..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

More on the Russian Federation's rejection (by UNSC veto) of a Tribunal before the "international"* investigation is completed...

Danielle Ryan wrote:
With all the moral posturing on display at the UN Security Council after Russia's veto on the creation of an international tribunal over MH17, it's a good time to remember, that...

a.) there were no tribunals either when the US shot down an Iranian passenger jet (while illegally traversing Iranian territorial waters) OR when Ukraine shot down a Siberia Airlines passenger jet over the Black Sea

and b.) that all the 290 victims's of Iran Air 665 got was "I will never apologize for America"

So, if you're "outraged" over Russia's veto, you'd better start getting outraged over this, too. That, or shut up.


* Western MSM definition of "international = [2 NATO member states, 1 NATO ally, 1 Malaysian rep beaten into submission after being excluded for months and months from an investigation into their own aircraft downing, and 1 likely suspect in Banderistan Ukraine, (with a veto, natch!)]

Oh, and by the way...

Operation Northwoods. Yeah, these things really are planned, and sometimes carried out..

Supplemental: the reason the Russians want this treated as a criminal matter is interesting. And it makes sense.

RT wrote:
Churkin noted that Russia had repeatedly said that it wouldn't support the tribunal “due to the fact the UNSC resolution 2166 [of 2014] didn’t qualify the Boeing tragedy as a threat to international peace and security.”

“It is difficult to explain how the event, which wasn’t considered a threat to international peace and security a year ago, now suddenly becomes one,” he wondered.

Catch that? The 2014 UN Resolution treated the MH-17 tragedy as that but not as a threat to peace, etc. What changed to make it so? And, especially since the "international" investigation isn't complete, why the urgency to do so?

The US wants to own the show, as usual.


The MH-17 Pilot's Corpse: More on the Cover-Up  - by Eric Zuesse (and vid)

"It might be the decisive piece of evidence proving who, what, how and why the MH17 Malaysian airliner over the conflict zone in Ukraine on 17 July 2014 was shot down, but the pilot's corpse has been hidden even from the people who have the most right to see it. This cover-up was revealed when Russian TV sent reporters last month to interview the pilot's family."


The Dutch-Ukrainian MH17 Investigation is an Injustice to All the Relatives of the 298 Victims

"Peter Iskola, Finnish legal expert and judge says the MH-17 investigation is a legal farce."


Sergey Lavrov Gives Interview to News Asia (and video)

"Mr Lavrov, welcome to Conversations With. So what do you have to say to Malaysia's families who lost loved ones on MH17..?"