Massacre in Gaza: Part 2

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remind remind's picture
Massacre in Gaza: Part 2

We will start with cue's link

cueball wrote:
Here you go Nofactum:

Nice footage of some Ghandi's being beaten and gassed. The best part of
it is when the IDF boys shoot a tear gas canister into the front door
of the ambulance, driving out the injured and their attendants.


I will also add I wrote to the NDP about about their wishy wshy response too! Did not want to get into it cause thread was unbearable to load, and is unbearable to load, and I had thought one of the regular participants would actually start a new one, respectfully much sooner.


If anyone thinks the NDP was wishy-washy, have a look at Stephen Ignatieff's filthy statement:

I am greatly concerned by the deepening violence in Israel and the Gaza Strip and the fear and suffering on all sides that this mounting instability has caused.

[b][i]The Liberal Party of Canada unequivocally condemns the rocket attacks launched by Hamas against Israeli civilians and calls for an immediate end to these attacks. We affirm Israel's right to defend itself against such attacks, and also its right to exist in peace and security. [/i][/b]

We regret the loss of life sustained on all sides of the conflict. We call on all parties to end these hostilities, mindful that a durable ceasefire will be necessary to prevent continued civilian casualties and lasting damage to essential civilian infrastructure.

The international community has a responsibility to ensure that the cost of conflict is not borne by the innocent and Canada must stand ready to assist and ensure that basic humanitarian assistance reaches those who need it.

Our thoughts are with those in Israel and the Gaza Strip whose lives are imperiled by the cycle of violence in the region. In the midst of this crisis, we continue to stand for a peaceful resolution. We firmly believe that the basis of this peace will be the mutual recognition by both Israelis and Palestinians of two states, living side by side in peace and security, with a full resolution of the issue of refugees and settlements, as well as secure and internationally recognized borders and boundaries.

I'm not going to link to the source. It's a disgusting site.


And if you're not totally disgusted yet, then trailing the pack, here comes Bloc québécois foreign affairs critic Paul Crête:


Situation dans la bande de Gaza - Le Bloc Québécois demande l'intervention des Casques bleus pour assurer l'acheminement de l'aide humanitaire

Ottawa, lundi 29 décembre 2008 - Le porte-parole du Bloc Québécois en matière d'Affaires étrangères, Paul Crête, demande au premier ministre du Canada, Stephen Harper, de faire preuve de leadership au plan diplomatique pour qu'une force d'interposition onusienne intervienne rapidement dans la bande de Gaza afin de permettre notamment l'acheminement de l'aide humanitaire.

« Le Canada ne peut se contenter de simplement reconnaître le droit d'Israël de se défendre. Il est vrai que les tirs du Hamas sur le territoire israélien qui perdurent depuis trop longtemps sont inacceptables, tout comme le refus du Hamas de reconnaître le droit d'Israël d'exister. Cependant, pour éviter d'être accusé d'avoir choisi ce moment précis, soit juste avant les élections israéliennes et l'entrée en fonction de l'administration Obama à Washington en janvier, pour riposter avec une telle vigueur, le gouvernement israélien doit permettre l'envoi des casques bleus et l'établissement d'un corridor sécuritaire pour que l'aide humanitaire puisse entrer dans la bande de Gaza » a déclaré Paul Crête.

« Les populations israélienne et palestinienne ne doivent pas être prises en otages. Le premier ministre du Canada ne peut rester les bras croisés. Stephen Harper doit multiplier les pressions pour que la force d'interposition sous l'égide de l'ONU voit le jour » a conclu Paul Crête.

The Palestinian people - indeed, the simple norms of humanity and of international law - have no friends in the House of Commons today. The damned place should stay prorogued forever. Shame!


martin dufresne

The Bloc québécois and the three other federal parties could take a cue from the U.K. about how to treat Israeli politicians.



Israeli evades arrest at Heathrow over army war crime allegations
· Retired general tipped off after judge issues warrant
· Ex-commander accused of demolishing Gaza homes

Scotland Yard was thwarted yesterday in its
attempt to seize a former senior Israeli army officer at Heathrow
airport for alleged war crimes in occupied Palestinian lands after a
British judge had issued a warrant for his arrest.

detectives were waiting for retired Major General Doron Almog who was
aboard an El Al flight which arrived from Israel yesterday. It is
believed he was tipped off about his impending arrest while in the air
and stayed on the plane to avoid capture until it flew back to Israel.
Scotland Yard detectives were armed with a warrant naming Mr Almog as a
war crimes suspect for offences that breached the Geneva conventions. (...)



Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Unionist wrote:
If anyone thinks the NDP was wishy-washy, have a look at Stephen Ignatieff's filthy statement:

I am greatly concerned by the deepening violence in Israel and the Gaza Strip and the fear and suffering on all sides that this mounting instability has caused.

[b][i]The Liberal Party of Canada unequivocally condemns the rocket attacks launched by Hamas against Israeli civilians and calls for an immediate end to these attacks. We affirm Israel's right to defend itself against such attacks, and also its right to exist in peace and security. [/i][/b]

We regret the loss of life sustained on all sides of the conflict. We call on all parties to end these hostilities, mindful that a durable ceasefire will be necessary to prevent continued civilian casualties and lasting damage to essential civilian infrastructure.

The international community has a responsibility to ensure that the cost of conflict is not borne by the innocent and Canada must stand ready to assist and ensure that basic humanitarian assistance reaches those who need it.

Our thoughts are with those in Israel and the Gaza Strip whose lives are imperiled by the cycle of violence in the region. In the midst of this crisis, we continue to stand for a peaceful resolution. We firmly believe that the basis of this peace will be the mutual recognition by both Israelis and Palestinians of two states, living side by side in peace and security, with a full resolution of the issue of refugees and settlements, as well as secure and internationally recognized borders and boundaries.

I'm not going to link to the source. It's a disgusting site.


Canadian politicians have a long history of standing with racist aggressors. Maybe it is because we are descendants of racist aggressors. I don't know. There is no political party in Canada that stands unequivocally for human rights. The rights of the Palestinians to basic dignity and even life itself is always secondary to Israeli posturing and lies. 

"Nev er Again!" They say. Every fucking day, in truth.

remind remind's picture

Amazing, I did not think that the NDP's could actually sound better than it first appeared.

"watching the tide roll away"


What a surprise, the NDP's response to crisis, once again at the forefront of ineffectiveness.


We call on the Government of Canada to immediately call for an end to
the aerial bombing of Gaza, the blockade of aid to civilians and the
indiscriminate rocket attacks on Israel. Indeed, the government must
urge both sides to agree to end the current hostilities immediately,
reinstate the ceasefire and return to the peace process.

The NDP is the only party so far that has demanded a halt to the aerial bombing of Gaza and the blockade of Gaza. The Bloc spokesperson called for U.N. peacekeepers to facilitate aid and relief, but didn't call for a halt to the bombing. The Liberals and Conservatives cheered on the Israelis and pledged Canadian support for mass murder.

I don't like the NDP statement, but at least it said something.


Well, being thrown a scrap of putrefied gristle is better than nothing too.  Some seem to be content to gnaw on it anyway.

remind remind's picture

So you think the Bloc, the Liberals, and CPC responses are so much better? Pffft!


"watching the tide roll away"

aka Mycroft

Dr Mustafa Barghouthi, Secretary General of the Palestinian National Initiative and a leading activist based in the West Bank has written an incisive analysis of the current conflict:


Palestine's Guernica and the Myths of Israeli Victimhood

The Israeli campaign of 'death from above' began around 11 am, on Saturday morning, the 27th of December, and stretched straight through the night into this morning. The massacre continues Sunday as I write these words.

The bloodiest single day in Palestine since the War of 1967 is far from over following on Israel's promised that this is 'only the beginning' of their campaign of state terror. At least 290 people have been murdered thus far, but the body count continues to rise at a dramatic pace as more mutilated bodies are pulled from the rubble, previous victims succumb to their wounds and new casualties are created by the minute.

What has and is occurring is nothing short of a war crime, yet the Israeli public relations machine is in full-swing, churning out lies by the minute.

Once and for all it is time to expose the myths that they have created.

1. Israelis have claimed to have ended the occupation of the Gaza Strip in 2005.

While Israel has indeed removed the settlements from the tiny coastal Strip, they have in no way ended the occupation. They remained in control of the borders, the airspace and the waterways of Gaza, and have carried out frequent raids and targeted assassinations since the disengagement.

Furthermore, since 2006 Israel has imposed a comprehensive siege on the Strip. For over two years, Gazans have lived on the edge of starvation and without the most basic necessities of human life, such as cooking or heating oil and basic medications. This siege has already caused a humanitarian catastrophe which has only been exacerbated by the dramatic increase in Israeli military aggression.

2. Israel claims that Hamas violated the cease-fire and pulled out of it unilaterally.

Hamas indeed respected their side of the ceasefire, except on those occasions early on when Israel carried out major offensives in the West Bank. In the last two months, the ceasefire broke down with Israelis killing several Palestinians and resulting in the response of Hamas. In other words, Hamas has not carried out an unprovoked attack throughout the period of the cease-fire.

Israel, however, did not live up to any of its obligations of ending the siege and allowing vital humanitarian aid to resume in Gaza. Rather than the average of 450 trucks per day being allowed across the border, on the best days, only eighty have been allowed in - with the border remaining hermetically sealed 70% of the time. Throughout the supposed 'cease-fire' Gazans have been forced to live like animals, with a total of 262 dying due to the inaccessibility of proper medical care.

Now after hundreds dead and counting, it is Israel who refuses to re-enter talks over a cease-fire. They are not intent on securing peace as they claim; it is more and more clear that they are seeking regime change - whatever the cost.

3. Israel claims to be pursuing peace with 'peaceful Palestinians'.

Before the on-going massacre in the Gaza Strip, and throughout the entirety of the Annapolis Peace Process, Israel has continued and even intensified its occupation of the West Bank. In 2008, settlement expansion increased by a factor of 38, a further 4,950 Palestinians were arrested - mostly from the West Bank, and checkpoints rose from 521 to 699.

Furthermore, since the onset of the peace talks, Israel has killed 546 Palestinians, among them 76 children. These gruesome statistics are set to rise dramatically now, but previous Israeli transgressions should not be forgotten amidst this most recent horror.

Only this morning, Israel shot and killed a young peaceful protester in the West Bank village of Nihlin, and has injured dozens more over the last few hours. It is certain that they will continue to employ deadly force at non-violent demonstrations and we expect a sizable body count in the West Bank as a result. If Israel is in fact pursuing peace with 'good Palestinians', who are they talking about?

4. Israel is acting in self-defense.

It is difficult to claim self defense in a confrontation which they themselves have sparked, but they are doing it anyway. Self-defense is reactionary, while the actions of Israel over the last two days have been clearly premeditated. Not only did the Israeli press widely report the ongoing public relations campaign being undertaken by Israel to prepare Israeli and international public opinion for the attack, but Israel has also reportedly tried to convince the Palestinians that an attack was not coming by briefly opening crossings and reporting future meetings on the topic. They did so to insure that casualties would be maximized and that the citizens of Gaza would be unprepared for their impending slaughter.

It is also misleading to claim self-defense in a conflict with such an overwhelming asymmetry of power. Israel is the largest military force in the region, and the fifth largest in the world. Furthermore, they are the fourth largest exporter of arms and have a military industrial complex rivaling that of the United States. In other words, Israel has always had a comprehensive monopoly over the use of force, and much like its super power ally, Israel uses war as an advertising showcase of its many instruments of death.

5. Israel claims to have struck military targets only.

Even while image after image of dead and mutilated women and children flash across our televisions, Israel brazenly claims that their munitions expertly struck only military installations. We know this to be false as many other civilian sites have been hit by airstrikes including a hospital and mosque.

In the most densely populated area on the planet, tons upon tons of explosives have been dropped. The first estimates of injured are in the thousands. Israel will claim that these are merely 'collateral damage' or accidental deaths. The sheer ridiculousness and inhumanity of such a claim should sicken the world community.

6. Israel claims that it is attacking Hamas and not the Palestinian people.

First and foremost, missiles do not differentiate people by their political affiliation; they simply kill everyone in their path. Israel knows this, and so do Palestinians. What Israel also knows, but is not saying public ally, is how much their recent actions will actually strengthen Hamas - whose message of resistance and revenge is being echoed by the angry and grieving.

The targets of the strike, police and not Hamas militants, give us some clue as to Israel's mistaken intention. They are hoping to create anarchy in the Strip by removing the pillar of law and order.

7. Israel claims that Palestinians are the source of violence.

Let us be clear and unequivocal. The occupation of Palestine since the War of 1967 has been and remains the root of violence between Israelis and Palestinians. Violence can be ended with the occupation and the granting of Palestine's national and human rights. Hamas does not control the West Bank and yet we remain occupied, our rights violated and our children killed.

With these myths understood, let us ponder the real reasons behind these airstrikes; what we find may be even more disgusting than the act itself.

The leaders Israel are holding press conferences, dressed in black, with sleeves rolled up.

'It's time to fight', they say, 'but it won't be easy.'

To prove just how hard it is, Livni, Olmert and Barak did not even wear make-up to the press conference, and Barak has ended his [election] campaign to focus on the Gaza campaign. What heroes...what leaders...

We all know the truth: the suspension of the electioneering is exactly that - electioneering.

Like John McCain's suspension of his presidential campaign to return to Washington to 'deal with' the financial crisis, this act is little more than a publicity stunt.

The candidates have to appear 'tough enough to lead', and there is seemingly no better way of doing that than bathing in Palestinian blood.

'Look at me,' Livni says in her black suit and unkempt hair, 'I am a warrior. I am strong enough to pull the trigger. Don't you feel more confident about voting for me, now that you know I am as ruthless as Bibi Netanyahu?'

I do not know which is more disturbing, her and Barak, or the constituency they are trying to please.

In the end, this will in no way improve the security of the average Israeli; in fact it can be expected to get much worse in the coming days as the massacre could presumably provoke a new generation of suicide bombers.

It will not undermine Hamas either, and it will not result in the three fools, Barak, Livni and Olmert, looking 'tough'. Their misguided political venture will likely blow up in their faces as did the brutally similar 2006 invasion of Lebanon.

In closing, there is another reason - beyond the internal politics of Israel - why this attack has been allowed to occur: the complicity and silence of the international community.

Israel cannot and would not act against the will of its economic allies in Europe or its military allies in the US. Israel may be pulling the trigger ending hundreds, perhaps even thousands of lives this week, but it is the apathy of the world and the inhumane tolerance of Palestinian suffering which allows this to occur.

'The evil only exists because the good remain silent'

From Occupied Palestine. . .

-- Dr. Mustafa Barghouthi

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url='s a link to that useful Barghouthi article[/u][/url]


And speaking of links, remind failed to provide a link in the OP to the [url= thread chunk on this topic[/u][/url], thereby proving once again that chopping up threads into unconnected chunks is [url= substitute for having paginated threads like the entire rest of the world does.[/u][/url]



M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url= Inalienable Right to Resist Occupation[/u][/url] [excerpt]

Kim Petersen wrote:
Israeli Jews are massacring Palestinians again. Zionists are pinning the blame on the elected representative of the Palestinians: Hamas.

Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni demonized the Palestinian movement: "Hamas is a terrorist organization and nobody is immune."

Complicitly, the Whitehouse blamed Hamas, [b]as did Canada's government.[/b] Government officials in the US, Canada, and Europe spoke the same lame phrase, "Israel has a right to defend itself," as if the slaughter being carried out by a world military power against a starving population could be construed as some kind of defense. [b]Israel, the world's most frequently cited violator of international law, a racist state, an occupation state built through violence and slow-motion genocide is being acknowledged as having the right to defend its criminality. This is preposterous; there is no right of an occupation regime to defend its occupation.[/b] Palestine, however, has a right to resist occupation!

Israeli writer Gideon Levy called Israel's actions a war crime, but he also blames Hamas: "In its foolishness, Hamas brought this on itself and on its people, but this does not excuse Israel's overreaction."

Hamas chooses to stand and resist occupation rather than getting down on its knees to Israel. It seems for Levy that resistance is foolish.

[b]Levy implied that Israel had a right to react - just it went too far. Thus, Levy depicted Israel as the reactor and Hamas as the provocateur. This is false. Levy attempts to present Israel as blameless for Hamas's firing of rockets - as if all the violent crimes he reported against Palestinians had never happened before the rockets from Gaza.[/b]

What the critics of Hamas are alleging - without showing evidence - is that Hamas (or any Palestinian, for that matter) is behind the launching of rickety rockets from Gaza. However, even if Hamas is behind the launching of the rockets, so what!? Hamas, is the elected representative of Palestinians. Palestinians have the legal right to self-determination. They have the moral right to resist occupation. However, the right to resist must also be recognized as a legal right. [b]It is absurd to argue that there is no legal right to resist the illegal act of occupation - a prima facie denial of the right to self-determination. History bears this out. Did the early Americans not claim a right to resist British colonialism? Did the Europeans not have a right to launch guerrilla attacks on the Nazi occupation regimes? Why does Levy deny this right to Palestinians?[/b]

[footnotes omitted]


[url= Obama on Israel's Siege of Gaza
"No comment."[/u][/url]

Joshua Frank wrote:
While bombs fall on a suffocating Palestinian population and Israeli forces prepare for a ground invasion, Obama is monitoring the situation from afar after a talk with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other Bush administration officials. This isn’t leadership; it’s a continuation of a policy that has left Palestinians with little recourse, let alone hope for lasting peace.

“The president-elect was in Sderot last July, in southern Israel, a town that’s taken the brunt of the Hamas attacks,” David Axelrod told Chip Reid on Face the Nation. “And he said then that, when bombs are raining down on your citizens, there is an urge to respond and act and try and put an end to that. So, you know, that’s what he said then, and I think that’s what he believes.”

[b]If Axelrod is correct, and Barack Obama does indeed support the bloodshed inflicted upon innocent Palestinians by the Israeli military, there should be no celebrating during Inauguration Day 2009, only mass protest of a Middle East foreign policy that must change in order to begin a legitimate peace process in the region.[/b]




Iranian Jews slam Israel over Gaza


Iranian Jews express their solidarity with the Palestinians and the victims of the tragic incidents of Gaza. Iranian Jews Society has condemned Israeli attacks on Palestinians in Gaza which have so far killed over 281 people in two consecutive days.

The Israelis showed that they do not abide by any civil and human laws, the society said in a statement released on Sunday.

Meaningful silence of the international community towards Israel's atrocities shows that there is an urgent need for a new plan for fighting against oppression and retrieving the rights of the oppressed people, the statement added



I love the disclaimer the Huffington Post put in front of the Barghouti article.  Even a supposed left internet site has to look over their shoulder.


"Activists trying to bring aid to Gaza today claimed their boat had been rammed by Israeli gunboats in a "criminal attack" in international waters.

The Free Gaza Movement said its vessel, the Dignity, was intercepted by several Israeli vessels as it was heading to the Gaza Strip, which has been under Israeli aerial bombardment since Saturday.

One gunboat rammed the Dignity on the port bow side, causing heavy damage, although no one was hurt, the group said.

"[The Dignity] is taking on water and appears to have engine problems," the movement said on its website. "When attacked, the Dignity was clearly in international waters, 90 miles off the coast of Gaza.

. . . .

The group said the attack took place as the Dignity carried three tonnes of medical supplies at the request of doctors in Gaza.

The crew and passengers were hoping to treat some of those injured in four days of the Israeli air strikes, with hospitals in the territory overwhelmed.

. . . .

An Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, Yigal Palmor, told Reuters there had been no shooting, although two ships made "physical contact".


Alternatives Information Center (their spelling) is also a very useful site. It is based in Jerusalem, but has Palestinians as well as anti-Zionist Jews among its participants:


Outrage and Frustration

What else can we do now?  It looks like this is going to continue.  We need stronger voices in Canada and Internationally to condemn the grab of coastal and marine energy resources by Occupying powers who continue to use bombs and ground violence to kill innocents as tools in their political kits.

It is Completely Sick.




Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

I learned via CBC, today, Canada's brave(less) source for all the lies presented as truth, that Israel is commiting mass murder in Gaza because 300 Israeli children are home from school "today". There you have it: Won't anyone think of the little Israeli children while the Zionists butcher the Palestinian children?


CBC's coverage has been apalling at best, though I guess I shouldn't be surprised when it comes to their international coverage. Not that any of the mainstream media has been any better, but the Ceeb has been standing out in the last few days as the worst of the worst.


Demonstration in Montréal:

carré Cabot: corner St. Catherine | Atwater
(metro Atwater)
Montreal, Quebec

This is farther west than demos typically start here - perhaps we are marching on the Israeli consulate in Westmount Square.

And in your town?


yes.  thanks Lagatta.

Occupation is a crime from Kandahar to Palestine.

In lieu of gathering the foxes and deer out here to stage a protest on the TransCanada pipeline in the valley, leaking and poisoning their water, I think I'm going to do up a sign for the Highway of Heroes.

better still, a more fulsome letter for this week's paper.


Yeah, the poor foxes and deer are also victims of rapacious capitalism, as are the Palestinians.

Rosa Luxemburg wrote a wonderful short piece on the extermination of small birds and indigenous peoples; must dig that up somehow. The computer I had it on died.

I think I'll write to the Bloc and personally to Gilles Duceppe and Pierre Paquette, whom I've known for decades. Pierre was at the Alternatives retreat this past summer, listening to many interventions about Palestine and the Middle East in general; one of the guests was a Palestinian from an association helping children traumatised by the ocucpation (and one of the lefty Palestinians I know). Pierre (and Gilles) should really be ashamed, as they know better.

I'll be busy on the organisation of this demo for the coming days - I know it isn't much, but people worldwide really have to take what action we can.

martin dufresne

FM: "Won't anyone think of the little Israeli children while the Zionists butcher the Palestinian children"

Is there no end to the obfuscation? Can't you at least call them the Israelis? I mean, someone could also beat you away from the word "Zionist" saying "Not all Zionists approve of the massacre/are in arms, etc...."

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Not all Israelis are Zionists and Zionism is the ideological construct behind the occupaton, oppression, and violence directed at Palestinians. To me Zionism is supremacist ideology little different than the many white supremacist movements in Europe or North America or from the one that once held power in South Africa.

martin dufresne

Well, at least, we had the clarity to impugn U.S. and South African Whites - and not just their ideological construct - for racism and apartheid.


Nuke the Knesset


No, our movement in solidarity with a non-racial South Africa was always called the Anti-Apartheid Movement, not the "Anti-South-African Whites (Afrikaaners and Anglos) Movement". And we marched against US aggression, imperialism and racism, (I started during Vietnam, as you probably did as well) not against US-Americans.

The IDF is the military force pounding Gaza, but Zionism is the ideological justification behind it, not only in Israel but in many parts of the world, and not only among Jews.

Yes, we do have to be especially careful in this instance to distinguish our solidarity with Palestinians against Israeli Zionist aggression from any taint of anti-semitism, as that is an important and lasting form of hatred in the "Western World". Not to be nice, not to be in any denial, but to build solidarity and win.

martin dufresne

Oh we are being "especially careful" indeed... 

Carefully labeling risk of anti-semitism people's outrage against Israel's politic.

It seems to me we have been down this road before.



Nuke the Knesset


Robert Fisk: Why bombing Ashkelon is
the most tragic irony

The Independent, Tuesday, 30 December

How easy it is to snap off
the history of the Palestinians, to delete the narrative of their tragedy, to
avoid a grotesque irony about Gaza which – in any other conflict – journalists
would be writing about in their first reports: that the original, legal owners
of the Israeli land on which Hamas rockets are detonating live in

That is why Gaza exists: because the Palestinians
who lived in Ashkelon and the fields around it – Askalaan in Arabic – were
dispossessed from their lands in 1948 when Israel was created and ended up on
the beaches of Gaza. They – or their children and grandchildren and
great-grandchildren – are among the one and a half million Palestinian refugees
crammed into the cesspool of Gaza, 80 per cent of whose families once lived in
what is now Israel. This, historically, is the real story: most of the people of
Gaza don't come from Gaza.

But watching the news shows, you'd think that
history began yesterday, that a bunch of bearded anti-Semitic Islamist lunatics
suddenly popped up in the slums of Gaza – a rubbish dump of destitute people of
no origin – and began firing missiles into peace-loving, democratic Israel, only
to meet with the righteous vengeance of the Israeli air force. The fact that the
five sisters killed in Jabalya camp had grandparents who came from the very land
whose more recent owners have now bombed them to death simply does not appear in
the story. (...)

Kaspar Hauser

The Palestinian Refugee Support Network has a program for people who would like to adopt a family in Gaza or the West Bank.  They accept monthly donations of either $60 or $100.  Here's the link:

martin dufresne

Puking matter

CIC Supports Israel's Right of Self-Defence
For Immediate Release
28, 2008
Yesterday, following more than a week of Hamas's unceasing rocket
and mortar fire attacks onto Israel's southern communities, Israel was forced
to respond with limited miltary airstrikes to put and end to the rocket
attacks from Gaza. Israel targetted Hamas's military installations, tried to
avoid civilian casualties and regrets any loss of innocent life.
Ronen, Chair of the Canada-Israel Committee, and currently in Israel, noted
the tremendous restraint that Israeli leaders have shown while they searched
for a peaceful solution to the rocket attacks which have terrorized Israeli
civilians, caused extensive damage and killed an Israeli citizen and left
others wounded.
In response to Israel's military operation, Mr. Ronen
emphasized that "every country has the right and obligation to protect its
citizens. Israel is doing no less than Canada would, could and should do
under similar circumstances."
Mr. Ronen expressed the gratitude of the
Canadian Jewish community for the Hon. Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Foreign
Affair's statement acknowledging Israel's "clear right" to defend itself
against rocket attacks that have "deliberately targeted [Israeli] civilians"
and for saying that "[f]irst and foremost those rocket attacks must
stop." (...)


For shame?

I have been involved in Palestine solidarity for decades. I'm no friend of Israel's politic or whatever. A Palestinian set me straight about who the aggressor was in 1969, I believe, when I was a young teen. (A lot of progressive people had illusions about Israel way back then).

That is pure crap, martin.

Though we have to be espcially careful, yes, about not getting off the track in ideological disagreements when threads like this must build solidarity with the embattled people of Gaza (and everywhere in Palestine). For example, I think my political disagreement with cueball runs far deeper than anything to do with Palestine, but I have no problem whatsoever marching with people in religous movements (whether Palestinian Muslims or anti-Zionist ultraorthodox Jews) against this crime against humanity, little as I like their world outlook. In the real world, organising solidarity.


martin dufresne wrote:

Puking matter

CIC Supports Israel's Right of Self-Defence
For Immediate Release
28, 2008

Martin, what exactly is the purpose of citing this ultra-right pro-Israeli aggressor organization's release? Are you going to treat us to Government of Israel releases next? Are you trying to expose the CIC as being pro-Israeli? Undecided


sometimes greed, inhumanity, injustice, power, are just that.

i'm reacting here to lagatta's framing of the Earth and Indigenous Peoples as topics of anti-capitalist literature.  

and unionists' critique of martin dufresne's posting of various statements.

what is this, primarily about socialist strategic presentation?

calculated politicking.  never ceases to amaze me.





Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture


You are a white, Canadian, male. Are you the enemy of all First Nations? Are you the oppressor of all women? Are you the occupier of Afghanistan? For that matter, are you the oppressor of all non-Western humanity? Or should we differentiate your views, your beliefs, and your values from that of the predominant culture of which you are a part?

Do Arab-Israelis, for example, share equal responsibility as they are Israeli?

At the heart of the oppression is Zionism. 


Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture
Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Well, first, I will say  that some of the bravest and most vocal opponents of Israeli oppression are Israelis.

Next, racism and patriarchy are abstract concepts. They have no substantive characteristics in the sense that there is no council, body, institution, constitution, nor  ideology that represnt them or that can be torn down to eliminate them. Rather racism and misogyny are omniprescent and are represented by all Western and most non-Western councils, bodies, institutions, constitutions, and most ideologies.

So you are and will always be the Enemy of all non-Whites and all women. Of course you excuse yourself with "action" as though there is no anti-Zionist Israeli taking similar and perhaps riskier action in the name of justice and peace for Palestinians.



possible truce? demand for end of aggression and blockade

Maysie Maysie's picture

Some photos from recent protests:


* Photos: Montreal stands with Gaza
by Sabrien Amrov

In response to the current Israeli bombardment on the Gaza Strip, hundreds
gathered in downtown Montreal to protest the Israeli assault which has
until now killed an estimated 300 Palestinians, the majority civilians.
Air strikes continue to pound Gaza for the fourth consecutive day, as high
level Israeli officials have labelled the offensive an “all-out war”,
while from Beirut to Cairo major protests have swept across the Middle
East. Additional protests and actions in solidarity with Gaza will occur
in Montreal within the upcoming days.

* London: Demonstration for Gaza
photo by Fil Kaler.

As protest swept the globe in solidarity with Gaza this past weekend an
estimated 2000 people attended a noisy demonstration outside the Israeli
embassy in London, England on Sunday in response to Israeli air strikes
that left hundreds dead in the Gaza Strip.

* Egypt: Solidarity for Gaza
photos by Per Bjorklund.

Protests erupted on the streets of Cairo, Egypt only hours after the first
air strikes hit in the current Israeli attack on the Gaza Strip. Special
focus has been directed at the Egyptian government’s role in the ongoing
crisis in Gaza, as protesters across the Middle East denounced Egyptian
President Hosni Mubarak collusion with Israeli authorities in maintaining
a complete closure on Gaza throughout the past year. Gaza remains under
siege and completely cut-off from the outside world as Egyptian police and
military maintain a complete closure on the Gaza Strip in coordination with Israeli along the southern Rafah border crossing.


M. Spector M. Spector's picture

martin dufresne wrote:

Nuke the Knesset

What is this, a joke?

martin dufresne wrote:

Robert Fisk: Why bombing Ashkelon is the most tragic irony

The Independent, Tuesday, 30 December 2008

This is an improvement on Fisk's [url= piece[/u][/url] in which he went on about how "Israel deserves security" and Hamas wants Muslim martyrs.




aka Mycroft

I don't have any strong objection to the Bloc's statement. 
They obviously opted for a middle of the road position, but they are
echoing the calls of Palestinians for a humanitarian aid corridor
and  foreign peacekeepers. They are also emphasizing that the
Palestinian people are being held hostage.

They haven't pointed
out that Hamas is legitimate thanks to a transparent, democratic
election, but that's not immediately pertinent. 
Sorry.  I can't lump the Bloc with the other three mealy-mouthed parties.



They didn't call for the bombing to stop.


here's the thing with self-determination; you don't have an occupying force ringing you with navy, and army, and putting you under seige, and preventing you from, you know, doing your own development, maybe getting a bit of gas from your offshore reserves (not having them stolen) to pay for food.  stuff like that.

and when people don't get to do these things for themselves, and watch their kids get bombed, they get mad.  and everyone gets mad.  and some say stupid things (like nuke the knesset) which should not be said.

so the thing is, what else can we do now? it's frustrating to see the 'Middle East Quartet' big boys pretend to dictate peace and harmony to the peoples they're strangulating. and it must be said.  the humanitarian aid corridor will end up being the gas shipment corridor, likely sans any real self-determination.  this being what a big part of what the early planning and consulting was about.  now just watching the game flower to fruition. 

of course we have to keep saying, self-determination, rights, and tell the quartet and friends to work on cleaning up their own shops, developing energy alternatives and conservation, Limits to Growth.  Let the Gazans Out of Prison.  STOP THE MASSACRE.


Cueball Cueball's picture

LeighT wrote:

possible truce? demand for end of aggression and blockade

Truce is what happens between two sides that are actually fighting. This is a slaughter, pure and simple. Imagine a group of hunters slaughtering a herd of caribou, and in the process a few caribou charged their assailants, causing negligible harm. If the hunters stopped shooting the caribou would it be a truce?



cueball, those were simply the copied words from the article

Cueball Cueball's picture

It wasn't a comment directed at you personally, but one emphasizing the point. I am so frustrated and appalled by all this that there is really not more that I can add to this conversation, since the rest is more or less obvious. This is a slaughter. This is not an armed conflict, not a war. None of those words can be applied. Truce is not applicable.

As if the Germans who were laying waste to the Warsaw Ghetto took an afternoon off and called it a "truce".

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

I agree. The Israelis call a massacre a war and the world media jumps all over the word "truce" as though Palestinians really matter in the equation other than as victims.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture



Saturday Jan 3 @ 1 pm
Vancouver Art Gallery (Robson side - (corner Hornby)


Hundreds came out in the rain, sleet and snow on Monday Dec 29th to show our solidarity with the people of Gaza. We're mobilizing again for Saturday Jan 3rd, 1pm at the Vancouver Art Gallery. Please come out rain, snow or shine to demonstrate your outrage and our collective humanity in response to the latest massacre of Palestinians.

*** Article (including 34 photos) from Dec 29th protest:

*** Mainstream news from the Province:

*** Video from Dec 29th protest:

*** Press TV coverage of Dec 29th:

At least 300 Palestinians have been killed and over 1400 injured in the latest Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip, while the threat for further bloodshed still hangs heavily as air strikes continue. This is the single largest massacre in Gaza since Israel illegally occupied Gaza in 1967, many among the dead are civilians and the numbers keeps mounting. The Israeli state shows no sign of halting its assault anytime soon as they have begun to amass tanks and ground assault military vehicles on the border with Gaza. Israeli Defense Minister, Ehud Barak, has stated that, "the operation will last as long as necessary".

Israel’s latest massacre in Gaza occurs with official US and Canadian complicity towards Israel’s illegal siege and ongoing sanctions over the civilian population in Gaza. Over the past two years the Gaza Strip has been undergoing the daily violence of a wide-ranging humanitarian catastrophe triggered by severely reduced access to energy, food, and medicines. In effect, Gaza is the world’s largest open air prison.

Join us in Vancouver as people of conscience to stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people of Gaza and to demand an end to the siege of Gaza and Israeli apartheid.


1) Email the prime minister, foreign affairs minister, and leaders of the opposition. Visit:

2) Respond to biased media coverage. Visit to send sample emails to the BBC, CNN, and Fox News regarding their biased coverage and use those template letters to send to Canadian media outlets.


* Photos from Gaza:

* Live from Palestine diaries

* The Gaza Crisis Talking Points by Phyllis Bennis

* Democracy Now interviews:

* Gaza: the logic of colonial power in The Guardian

* Israeli Slaughter, International Culpability

* Gaza massacres must spur us to action by Ali Abunimah:

* Israel's Wanton Aggression On Gaza

* Current Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza:


* Gaza is the world's largest open-air prison. 1.5 million residents are packed into an area 45 km long x 10 km wide, while Israel controls Gaza's air space and borders. Over 80% of the population are refugees denied their legal Right to Return to the homes and lands from which they were expelled in 1948. Israel also illegally restricts Palestinian freedom of movement into and out of Gaza. For example, in August 2008, Israel denied three Gazan Fulbright Scholars their basic right to education by having their American entry visas revoked.

* Gaza has been under complete siege since June 2007, during which time the 1.5 million people of Gaza have been cut off from sufficient fuel, food, and medicine. Two weeks ago, the UN reported that Gazans were living without power for up to 16 hours each day; half of Gaza's population was receiving water only once a week for a few hours; 80% of the water in Gaza did not meet World Health Organization standards for drinking; the unemployment rate had risen to almost 50%; only 23 of 3,900 industrial enterprises were operational; more than 79% were living below the poverty line; more than 56% were food insecure; and patients with chronic illnesses such as cancer or diabetes could not be adequately treated or cared for. (See:

* Since 2001, fewer than twenty Israelis have been killed by Qassam rockets. In three days, nearly 400 Gazans have been killed by Israeli state violence. This is a ratio of 20 Gazan lives for each Israeli life, with the death toll in Gaza certain to increase. In January 2008, UN Special Rapporteur John Dugard stated, "a distinction must be drawn between acts of mindless terror, such as acts committed by Al Qaeda, and acts committed in the course of a war of national liberation against colonialism, apartheid or military occupation. While such acts cannot be justified, they must be understood as being a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation." Israeli and Palestinian violence can in no way be viewed as symmetrical -- individual Palestinians have chosen to resist their occupiers with largely ineffective home-made rockets, while the Israeli state, which boasts the fourth most powerful military in the world, has responded by collectively punishing the captive population that it illegally occupies. Under the Fourth Geneva Convention, collective punishment is a war crime. As the occupier, the burden is on Israel to end its state violence.

* Israel is an apartheid state. Canada must sever diplomatic ties with Israel and implement sanctions against it until Israel complies with international law. UN General Assembly President Father Miguel D'Escoto Brockmann recently called for a campaign of Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions against Israel, similar to the one that ended apartheid in South Africa.

==> Organized by various Palestine solidarity groups.
For more information email [email protected]

Adala - Arab Justice Committee
Al-Awda - Vancouver
Boycott Israeli Apartheid Campaign
Canadian Arab Federation - National
Canada Palestine Association - Vancouver
Canadians Against War
Canadian Islamic Congress BC
Canadian Muslim Union
Code Pink Women for Peace (local chapter)
Independent Jewish Voices (Canada)
Indigenous Action Movement
Jews for a Just Peace - Vancouver
Muslim Canadian Federation - Vancouver
No One Is Illegal-Vancouver
Palestinian Islamic League - Canada
Salaam -Vancouver
Siraat Collective
Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights - University of British Columbia
StopWar Coalition
Students for a Democratic Society (UBC)
The Organizing Centre for Social and Economic Justice
Vancouver Socialist Forum
Voice of Palestine - Vancouver

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Obama did not acknowledge the protesters when his motorcade drove past
to take him to play basketball at his old school. He stared straight
ahead sipping from a bottle of water.

Barack O'Bush 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

At Beit Agron, the Israeli Government Press Office has not yet issued
my "visiting journalist credentials." I went there in person three days
ago, thinking they would be processed and delivered to me the same day.
As I waited, a steady stream of international reporters applied for and
received theirs. The press office liaison hands a British journalist
his credentials and smiles, "don't forget to report that we were first
attacked by  Qassam rockets; they're hitting us we're not hitting them."
The office wall is adorned with rockets fired by Hamas on the Israeli
town of Sderot. A Korean journalist poses in front of them and does a
"stand-up." The polite but evasive liaison keeps making excuses for the
delay in issuing my press card. He keeps uncovering additional material
that is missing in order to complete my application. He finally tells
me that he won't have an answer for me until the next day... I won't
bore you with the details, but I am Palestinian American.

Click here

martin dufresne

"Or should we differentiate your views, your beliefs, and your values
from that of the predominant culture of which you are a part"

The only way to make such differentiation substantive is by acknowledging that yes, as a White, I am the factual enemy of non-Whites as long as racism isn't abolished; as a Man, I am the factual enemy of women (and often children) as long as Patriarchy isn't abolished, etc., and by taking action to differentiate myself factually, through action.

Any lesser differentiation is idealist obfuscation, protecting those who benefit from the oppression from identification and sanction, as if only ideas could be held responsible and countered...


Nuke the Knesset


Topic locked