The missing thread on GOP and Tea(party) plans,probabilities and possibilities for 'Merica (and us)

109 posts / 0 new
Last post


Paul is a physician (so is his son), he is not a bought corporatist (yet - as far as I can tell) unlike that yelper from Alaska.  I think he believes in personal freedoms first and wants the Federal government to take a serious step back.  He is accurately describing the fascist\imperialistic outcomes of the Federal state and big corporate powers colluding and I think that is exactly what the big problem in the US.  Just for good mainstream measure, he focusses his critique there where it hurts most: how this wastes money and drives them to bankruptcy.   Not just the MIC, but big oil, big insurance, big pharma teaming up with big government and creating a fascist Orwellian monster.  I don't think he is against individual States using their powers to punish or even break up corporate bad actors.   Am I against companies making money?  No, without the progress that good inventions (and businesses who made and sold them) have created, we all would be living in caves still.  Profit is not a dirty word in my dictionary.  


Prince_or_Orange wrote:

I dwelled on al Qa-Bong's coming to my defense against a dismissive George Victor, who after winds up agreeing with me that Ron Paul may in fact be on to something... That was exactly my point.  I have started reading Paul's  "The Revolution - A Manifesto".  Could that be the (bloodless) revolution we may all be able to believe in...??  I am sure the Stargazer-types are watching the Paul's ascend nervously (and are trying to do everything to make him and his supporters out to be leftwing of rightwing nutcases or may even call in the CIA for another planted bomb or print some leftwing nazi posters to radicalize the debate - all part of the old divide and conquer game).  Their empty power is being exposed and threatened. Left and right keep your heads cool and unite to defeat the corporate fascists!!          

Hello there Prince, I am the "Stargazer type" you so dismissively alluded to in your post (quoted here). Yes I watch the Paul's nervously. Can you guess why? I had no idea I was "radicalizing the debate" by posting up Rand Paul's extremely racist and poor-bashing far right mantra. His call for the complete elimination of the state should have you worried. But I'm guessing you are a Libertarian, who believes only "free enterprise" should be free*. You and the other Rand supporters seem hungry to live in a corporate ruled country (and indeed, that is what you live in currently) however, the neo-libertarians want to take that even further - strip the state completely, eliminate all social safety nets, and all barriers to the "free enterprise". Here is the thing, the only thing more annoying than a tea bagger is a libertarian, somewhat swifter but even hungrier for a return to a dog-eat-dog world, where all the poor and middle class are wearing milk bone underwear. I'm sorry I can't quite swallow the whole Rand Paul koolaid, and frankly I'm surprised you would as well. Can you enlighten me as to how the basics of life are to be paid for in a corporate free for all?


I am sure you think that by supporting Ron Paul's position you are supporting "freedom". can you tell me how free a person is when they have no recourse, or no option for accountability when all regulations and rules surrounding worker's rights are destroyed? How do you see living wages increase under Paul's proposed system? Who will be the watch dogs of the corporations? Themselves? I am always amazed by libertarians. Just how will a decent society function when the people are quite literally slaves to the free market?


But ya know, maybe education, medicare, housing, employment benefits, social security and minimum wages are silly useless things that should be left entirely to multi-nationals, or simply eliminated entirely. 

The love of God has been fused with the love of corporations and the supreme belief in the "invisible hand of the free market" which we know is neither invisible nor free.


I look forward to your reply.


here is Ron Paul's call to abolish the "welfare state" and a nice quote from his doctrine:

Mr. Speaker, no one can deny that welfare programs have undermined America's moral fabric and constitutional system. Therefore, all those concerned with restoring liberty and protecting civil society from the maw of the omnipotent state should support efforts to eliminate the welfare state, or, at the very least, reduce federal control over the provision of social services. Unfortunately, the misnamed Personal Responsibility, Work, and Family Promotion Act (H.R. 4) actually increases the unconstitutional federal welfare state and thus undermines personal responsibility, the work ethic, and the family.


Stargazer, what you are describing IS the status quo.  At the moment 90% of the American people ARE slaves to the corporate fascist state, slowly built during the last 30 years through a bi-partisan effort.   I am not going to be drawn into things Rand Paul may or may not have said or meant.  I do not know him well enough for that.  I know that the mainstream media can do massive snowjobs (and yes, that young people sometimes say stupid thing).  Also, I am keenly aware that the corporate (lamestream) media continues to 'lunatic fringe' people who stand in the way of the fascist machine. 

I first and foremost would like to focus on Paul the elder who has a voting record that cannot be spun this way or that way.  Free enterprise built the country and its wealth.  When entitlements, big corporations and big government collude, that is when the situation starts spinning out of control and EVERY 'little person' loses.  Fix that and we have a faint hope that perhaps the American dream is not as dead as we all fear.   Don't we all want this: that every decent human being has a fair chance in their pursuit of happiness?  And don't get me wrong, I agree, America does a terrrible job at re-victimizing victims of a life that is not fair;  as if a person can help it when they get cancer or get fired because their job is outsourced etc etc etc.  Is it the role of good government to fix the unfairness of life?  Or is it the role of good government to do their best to support the individual who struggles for their freedoms and if it cannot do that, to get out of the way.       

remind remind's picture

Prince_or_Orange wrote:
 Free enterprise built the country and its wealth. 


You have got to be fucking kidding right?


No. I see you are not.


Slavery, corruption and exploitation built the country.


There was no fucking free enterprise.


So are you advocating slavery again? Seems so

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

I hear a lot of talk about freedoms and liberty from this father and son duo.   Great and all but unfortunately their notions of 'freedom and liberty' do not extend to women being free and liberated.   We get  an exception to the general rule.  The state is welcome to  control us.

Then of course there is the issue of climate change which apparently is pretty much a scam. 


Beyond all that I didn't realized that 'stargazer-types'-  had the ability to call in the CIA to get a bomb set.  Is there some sort of hotline number these types can call?


Ummm..the words I have quoted cannot possibly be twisted or taken out of context. Have you bothered to click and read the links? These are Ron Paul's own words. You would be wise to brush up on those whom you advocate for leadership positions.


Free enterprise certainly did NOT build this country, or America. That would have been the slaves, the poor (you do remember those workers sacrificed at the alter of the Industrial Revolution?), the Chinese - the workers built this country - which was founded on the blood of the First People and the slaves brought over to toil and produce for the white man.

I'm sorry, but eliminating the state, denying the violent and racist history of the Americas, does not help your position. You may chose to have an idealistic view of how the country was really founded, but you will find very very few of us have any toleration for the notion that 'free enterprise build this country and its wealth'. No sir, free enterprise broke the backs of the poor and the chained and spit them out with their now blackened lungs, loss of quality of life, and extreme isolation from anything natural. No, America was founded by the men and women who actually tiled the soil, who built the ships, who sacrificed their lives dying in conditions that were extremely unfavourable to them. "Free Enterprise" simply used these bodies. People, real people, built the country. Not bloodsucking corporations.


No worries Eliza Q - us Stargazer types can kill with a single thought. Surprised

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Closing for the longness.


Topic locked