N Korea shells S Korean Island

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Fidel

Why did South Korea fire first? Previous S. Korean governments fully accepted NK's claim to the same territory shelled by the South for no apparent reason on November 23rd.

In fact, this is cold war baloney warmed over. The west used to do similar things to the Sovs in attempting to provoke the Soviet military responses.

South Koreans like playing war games apparently. And guess who taught them. Three guesses - first two don't count, and trust your intuition. HINT: The country in question has 30,000 troops stationed on the peninsula and apparently can't find their way home thousands of miles away.

NDPP

Urgent: Stop the US/S Korean Attack - Know the Facts and Take Action:

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22111

"Once again, US Imperialism has chosen a holiday weekend time in the US when workers are preoccupied, Congress is on recess and any opposition or even questions are difficult to raise, to orchestrate a political and military crisis.."

US Exploits Korean Clash to Step Up Pressure on China

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/nov2010/kore-n25.shtml

"The Obama administration has decided to exploit the tensions on the Korean Peninsula, heightened by Tuesday's exchange of artillery shelling between the two Koreas to exert increased pressure on China, Washington's energy rival for hegemony in the Asia Pacific region...'

Fidel

Strategy of tension bullshit all over again. Shit disturbing US Military should get the hell home and stay there.

[url=http://www.ied.info/articles/fabricating-incidents-to-start-wars/the-kor... in Korea Could Not be Permitted[/url] then or now.

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

US Exploits Korean Clash to Step Up Pressure on China

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/nov2010/kore-n25.shtml

"The Obama administration has decided to exploit the tensions on the Korean Peninsula, heightened by Tuesday's exchange of artillery shelling between the two Koreas to exert increased pressure on China, Washington's energy rival for hegemony in the Asia Pacific region...'

Are we sure that they "exploited" these tensions? I mean, I have grave doubts about the idea that South Korea engages in this kind of brinkmanship without at least the tacit support of the USA, and I am sure the USA was apprised of all the details. I am sure no one was surprised by the North Korean retaliation.

Assuming this is true, then it seems to make sense that they wanted to make use of the incident to justify further military exercises that could be used to test Chinese reactions and gain diplomatic leverage.

Cueball Cueball's picture

DP

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Sven wrote:

Sineed wrote:

Um, South Korea did not bomb civilians, or anybody else for that matter.  North Korea actually bombed and killed civilians and destroyed people's homes. 

Now you're just quibbling and manufacturing differences that don't exit!

 

Also, just quibbling here but where are you getting these civilian deaths from.   The accounts I've been reading is it was 2 soldiers and of the 20 injured only 3 were civilians.  I'd say you nailed it with the manufacturing part and having no exit.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AM0YS20101123

 

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2010/11/24/281150/Ma-orders.htm

 

NDPP

It may be that the US thinks now that NATO has Russia in the bag, they can proceed to muscle China more regionally and  also advance with what may be warplans against Iran as well. There are hawks that believe sooner rather than later is the time to go forward with these and other imperial agendas - before their economy completely collapses or China decides to ditch the dollar.

NDPP

Cueball wrote:

Are we sure that they "exploited" these tensions? I mean, I have grave doubts about the idea that South Korea engages in this kind of brinkmanship without at least the tacit support of the USA, and I am sure the USA was apprised of all the details. I am sure no one was surprised by the North Korean retaliation.

Assuming this is true, then it seems to make sense that they wanted to make use of the incident to justify further military exercises that could be used to test Chinese reactions and gain diplomatic leverage.

NDPP

I would have used the word 'orchestrate' rather than 'exploited' and agree with you that clearly this is a provocation directed at China as much as North Korea

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Does anyone really believe these incidents are ever spur of the moment wild west games?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Apparently.

trippie

@ Cueball, Ya I think you about have it right. That poster came out and said it, he was in the military. According to him they were just having, you know, a harmless little excersise in the sea right next to their enemy.

 

Ya, harmeless and all. Just some 70,000 army guys that wanted to know if the guns were working and not rusty. The North had nothing to worry about, cause the drills had nothing to do with them.

NDPP

Latest North/South Korean Exchange - by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/latest-northsouth-korean-exchange

"What next? Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, stressed 'a colossal danger which must be avoided. A cool response is needed.' North Korea has no reason to create conflict. Washington and South Korea may have other ideas.."

Sineed

voice of the damned wrote:

So just a question while all this academic discussion goes on. Has anybody actually lived and worked in the ROK?

I've lived here since 2001. Was there something you wanted to ask?

I have a question - it's a couple of days after your 1st post, and do you still believe nothing is going to come of this?

Cueball Cueball's picture
Papal Bull

I dunno, I like to watch the North Korean situation pretty unceasingly. I have a grim fascination with despotic regimes and the history of Korea in the post-WW2 era plays really, really well into said fascination. I remember speaking to a prof. I had who mentioned that North Korea is a country where you will never know what's going on, where you will have to take either intelligence estimates or internal journalism from the North Korean state. Once in a while journalists will cover big events, but everything is controlled and handled in a way that is unique to pretty much anywhere in the world.

People who say 'the North didn't fire towards the ...' are taking the DPRK's word at face value, same as a lot of people are taking the ROK's statements at face value. Really, it is quite silly, given that most of us are willing to question the far more benign CBC.

So, North Korea's response wasn't some sort of just and fair response - if it were we'd have seen the pictures of North Korean devestation where the ROK had attacked. This was the response of a state that is based entirely on its military. This was a very...masculine response. No recourse to the standard angry rhetoric of North Korea, a terse warning (like the one that gets sent out everyday) regarding a military drill that, historically, would've been openly talked about by both sides through less formal channels. A complicating factor is the election of Lee Myung-Bak whose leadership has been very bellicose and reversed a bit of the good will that had been built up under his predecessors. Not reported in the Western media is a lot of the aggrivating rhetoric of South Korea - I'll find links later. Generally, though, you can just see the diplomatic niceties of the Americans and get a good idea of what the South is about.

The area under question is a sore spot for the North. Remember, Korea is a peninsula and following its demarcation in the post-Korean War world the DPRK's navy is essentially split up into two parts that have no capacity for interoperability. That is a major strategic weakness of the North and one that has been exacerbated by these drills. Holding them on the Eastern seaboard or in the south of the South would have been far less provacative. However, you know, when you have sabres to rattle - it is a party that everyone is more than welcome to join.

The incident won't lead to much though. The North pulls a lot of these sorts of shennanigans and the South likes to show its muscle from time to time as well. This is just prickly brinkmanship between the cynical and unstable North and a smug South.

Papal Bull

I dunno, I like to watch the North Korean situation pretty unceasingly. I have a grim fascination with despotic regimes and the history of Korea in the post-WW2 era plays really, really well into said fascination. I remember speaking to a prof. I had who mentioned that North Korea is a country where you will never know what's going on, where you will have to take either intelligence estimates or internal journalism from the North Korean state. Once in a while journalists will cover big events, but everything is controlled and handled in a way that is unique to pretty much anywhere in the world. Really, it is quite silly, given that most of us are willing to question the far more benign CBC.

So, North Korea's response wasn't some sort of just and fair response - if it were we'd have seen the pictures of North Korean devestation where the ROK had attacked. This was the response of a state that is based entirely on its military. This was a very...masculine response. No recourse to the standard angry rhetoric of North Korea, a terse warning (like the one that gets sent out everyday) regarding a military drill that, historically, would've been openly talked about by both sides through less formal channels. A complicating factor is the election of Lee Myung-Bak whose leadership has been very bellicose and reversed a bit of the good will that had been built up under his predecessors. Not reported in the Western media is a lot of the aggrivating rhetoric of South Korea - I'll find links later. Generally, though, you can just see the diplomatic niceties of the Americans and get a good idea of what the South is about.

The area under question is a sore spot for the North. Remember, Korea is a peninsula and following its demarcation in the post-Korean War world the DPRK's navy is essentially split up into two parts that have no capacity for interoperability. That is a major strategic weakness of the North and one that has been exacerbated by these drills. Holding them on the Eastern seaboard or in the south of the South would have been far less provacative. However, you know, when you have sabres to rattle - it is a party that everyone is more than welcome to join.

The incident won't lead to much though. The North pulls a lot of these sorts of shennanigans and the South likes to show its muscle from time to time as well. This is just prickly brinkmanship between the cynical and unstable North and a smug South.

wdsaddasd

Anybody interested in the thought of those living in Korea I would suggest an excellent ex-pat site called the Marmot's hole. I found this on the site:

 

 

There is a very very small garrison on YP-do. They have very few artillery pieces which are test fired on a regular basis to the West away from NK territory and away from fishing areas. They post notices and make radio broadcasts to enure there are no fishing vessels in the area and that the north Koreans know they will be firing. They also post patrol boats at the edges to further ensure there is no chance of civilians getting injured. They then fire a few rounds per gun to test the systems and then stow them.
http://www.rjkoehler.com/

It seems like some here want to blame the South Koreans for having the audacity to have a military exercise. South Korea has a right to hold military exercises and North Korea does not have the right to stop it. Military exercises have occurred in South Korea since the end of the Korean War. During the 1980s much larger exercises were conducted called "Team Spirit". Of courses North Korea complained but no harm was done to North Korea due to Team Spirit. So, why did North Korea decide to make an attack over something that has occurred year after year for over 50 years?
The live fire exercise at the island was routine and of no significance. Guess what., armies shoot guns. Shooting guns on one's own territory at targets located on one's territory is not being belligerent. The 70,000 troops number pales in size to the size of the North Korean Army.

Evidence is coming out that the attack was premeditated. The rocket artillery used by North Korea is not normally deployed near the islands. Rocket artillery is more suited to attacking large groups of land forces. Using rocket artillery was designed to kill and strike terror not to knock out the supposed threat of hardened military gun emplacements.

Also, North Korea recognizes South Korea's ownership of the islands. But, they make a ridiculous claim over the water that surrounds the islands. That is just absurd.

The bottom line is that North Korea for some reason wants to bully South Korea. South Korea did nothing wrong or nothing new or out of the ordinary. This is just another example of the leadership of North Korea disregard for life. They could have started a war if it was not for South Korean restraint.

 

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
It seems like some here want to blame the South Koreans for having the audacity to have a military exercise.
 

And for being US allies. Dont forget that. 

Quote:
The bottom line is that North Korea for some reason wants to bully South Korea.
 

[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/59v8gk.jpg[/IMG]

Make Daddy proud!

Maysie Maysie's picture

Closing for length.

And a note to Bec. You aren't banned for swearing at me, nor are you banned for being a white guy with unexamined racist beliefs. You're not banned at all. But you're on thin ice.

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