NATO - the evil alliance and why Canada should leave it.

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture

There's a very good piece by Canadian Patrick Armstrong about NATO as an alcoholic, eternally downing a few more the morning after creating another failed state and killing, injuring, and displacing millions as usual.

Some of the links look good too, e.g., the Pepe Escobar piece.

NATO, Alcoholism and Homer Simpson

Escobar: NATO is the alliance that exists to manage the chaos it breeds.

NDPP

NATO: Worse Than 'Obsolete' 

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/03/31/nato-worse-than-obsolete/

"It's a tripwire that could lead to World War III..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The Russian President connects events in Ukraine with justifications of NATO. His remarks came at the annual Valdai Conference in St. Petersburg.

Quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday that the West supported the coup in Ukraine to justify the existence of NATO. The Ukrainian opposition that is in power today “would have most likely come to power by democratic means, through elections, as well,” he said at a plenary session of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum. “We would have worked with them just like we worked with the authorities before [former Ukrainian President Viktor] Yanukovych,” TASS quoted Putin as saying.No, they had to take it to the coup with victims, to cause bloodshed, civil war, to intimidate the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine's southeast and in Crimea, he said, adding that Moscow “had to take measures to protect certain groups of the population.” The West continued to “spin this spiral, to escalate… to justify the very existence of the North Atlantic Alliance,” the president noted. “They need an external enemy, an external opponent.”

West supported Ukraine coup to justify NATO existence – Putin

link to the Valdai Club

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

German Foreign Minister Steinmeier wrote:
Anyone who thinks symbolic Panzer Parades on the eastern border of the Alliance will bring more security, is wrong.

I'll say.

German FM Splits with NATO

iyraste1313

German FM Splits with NATO...

Thanks for this! While I of course agree with the thread, we must not rely on corporatocracy governments to take the initiative...

Canada of course for one is a total sellout! But its people? Do we not fear being entangled in a global nuclear war, straddling the border of the enemy?

Where will the movement arise to challenge, threaten our governments to come to their senses and listen to the will and needs of its Peoples?

I just had the privilege to be engaged with a growing youth movement in the remote rural areas of Maya America, arising to take on the corporate predators...where is the youth of Canada...do you not fear for your future security??

NDPP

Do We Really Want a War With Russia?  -  by Murray Dobbin

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/24/do-we-really-want-a-war-with-russia/

"Now the US and NATO are suddenly seeking full Canadian membership in the madness..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Review of the recent summit: The Warsaw Summit: NATO’s Blueprint for Aggression (Vladimir Kozin at The Duran)

- "For the first time the final documents however say that the policy of nuclear deterrence of the Alliance will be based, amongst other things, on US nuclear facilities “forward deployed” in Europe – in other words on US strategic and tactical nuclear weapons based in Europe."

- "NATO’s nuclear powers (the UK, US and France) are to strengthen their offensive nuclear doctrine by lowering the threshold for using nuclear weapons."

- expansion of "the range of non-nuclear states who might sign an agreement with the US" (i.e., so that their territory can be used as a staging ground for the placement, and use, of nuclear weapons....) so that ...

"NATO allies are expected to participate in the development of combat missile equipment and intelligence information and early warning systems, to make their territory available for the construction of US missile bases, and to participate in the subsequent deployment of a global “missile shield”.

- "the Alliance still reserves the right to use nuclear weapons at any time" In truth "US has never given up its policy of a first use of nuclear weapons and has not removed its tactical nuclear weapons from Europe. "

- no honest desire to rid the world of nuclear weapons

- "Missile issues were in fact given an inordinate amount of attention at the Warsaw Summit. The final communiqué devotes fully eight paragraphs to them."

- MORE military spending and an INCREASE in military spending: "what is already the world’s largest military alliance accounting for more spending on defence than the rest of the world combined was increasing defence spending by 3% (in absolute terms $8 billion). "

- "The Summit documents refer to Russian “aggression against Ukraine”, but again without indicating the place and time when this aggression is supposed to have taken place.

Quite simply, Russia is a threat because NATO says so. Period.

- NATO cynically calls for a reduction in civilian casualties in Ukraine but ... "nowhere in any of the documents is it anywhere said that these are overwhelmingly the victims of the illegal actions of the armed forces and ultra-right wing militias doing the Kiev regime’s bidding, who have used and are still using heavy weapons against residents of the Donbass ..."

- "The Warsaw Summit heard a great deal about the large-scale exercises of the Russian Armed Forces on Russia’s own territory.  However NATO has openly admitted that in 2015 it conducted a total of 300 military exercises and manoeuvres, half with a pronounced anti-Russian flavour, which were carried out in close proximity to Russia’s borders."

- While claiming not to seek conflict with Russia, NATO "left unchanged its April 2014 decision to suspend all forms of military and civilian cooperation with Russia."

- continued expansion of the barbarous alliance with an "open door" policy, etc.  (Sweden, Finland, Ukraine, Georgia, ...)

In conclusion,

Quote:
The Warsaw Summit showed once again that the aggressive and militaristic North Atlantic Treaty Organisation is the major destabilising factor in the world today, as well as the key player in dissipating a huge part of humanity’s material and intellectual resources on a renewed arms race.

Given the serious problems facing humanity, this is itself a barbaric NATO crime.

Quote:
One thing the Warsaw Summit has once again made clear.  Current and future generations must be freed once and for all from the block system, which emerged after the Second World War.  Until and unless that happens – with coercive military blocks like NATO being once and for all consigned to past – there can be no secure peace in the world.




ikosmos ikosmos's picture

 

NATO Reaffirms its Bogus Russian Narrative

Robert Parry wrote:
In the up-is-down world that NATO and other Western agencies now inhabit, Russia’s military maneuvers within it own borders in reaction to NATO maneuvers along Russia’s borders are “provocative.” So, too, is Russia’s support for the internationally recognized government of Syria, which is under attack from Islamic terrorists and other armed rebels supported by the West’s Mideast allies, including Saudi Arabia, Qatar and NATO member Turkey.

In other words, it is entirely all right for NATO and its members to invade countries at will, including Iraq, Libya and Syria, and subvert others as happened in Ukraine and is still happening in Syria. But it is impermissible for any government outside of NATO to respond or even defend itself. To do so amounts to a provocation against NATO – and such hypocrisy is accepted by the West’s mainstream news media as the way that the world was meant to be.

And those of us who dare point out the lies and double standards must be “Moscow stooges,” just as those of us who dared question the Iraq WMD tales were dismissed as “Saddam apologists” in 2003.

plus ça change, ...

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
In the up-is-down world that NATO and other Western agencies now inhabit, Russia’s military maneuvers within it own borders in reaction to NATO maneuvers along Russia’s borders are “provocative.”

Hilariously though, if a pipsqeak country like Lithuania dares hold a military parade "literally dozens of meters from the border", THAT'S provocation.  That's NATO trying to start WWIII.

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:
Hilariously though, if a pipsqeak country like Lithuania dares hold a military parade "literally dozens of meters from the border", THAT'S provocation.  That's NATO trying to start WWIII.

Even the conservative German Foreign Minister Steinmeier warned about such things - before he was denounced and silenced. Apparently, that's not good enough for foreign policy genuises such as yourself.

the very right wing Daily Telegraph wrote:

The German foreign minister has broken ranks with Nato allies, accusing the alliance of “warmongering” against Russia.

Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke out against recent Nato military exercises in Poland and the Baltics, describing them as “sabre-rattling”.

“The one thing we shouldn’t do now is inflame the situation with loud sabre-rattling and warmongering,” the minister told Bild am Sonntag newspaper.

“Anyone who thinks a symbolic tank parade on the alliance’s eastern border will bring security is wrong,” he said in excerpts released ahead of a longer interview to be published on Sunday....

Mr Steinmeier was speaking after Nato staged its largest war game in eastern Europe since the end of the Cold War earlier this month.

Some 31,000 troops, including 1,000 from the UK, took part in Operation Anaconda, a 10-day exercise simulating a Russian attack on Poland.

The exercise was the first time German tanks crossed Poland from west to east since the Second World War.

German tanks crossing into Poland. What could go wrong?It's just a Panzer parade ...

Panzer Parade. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Roger Annis: Canada joins NATO's war escalation in eastern Europe

R Annis wrote:
Ukraine's "Anti-Terrorist Operation" in the east heavily targets residential neighbourhoods. In addition to houses and apartment buildings, schools, daycare centers and even medical centers have been struck by Ukrainian tank and other artillery shelling. The ongoing reports of the Donetsk International News Agency document the havoc. (Latest report, dated July 11, is here).

Our PM's son got to witness, first hand, practice of such atrocities. Oh joy, Canada, the "peaceable" Kingdom. Except if you're ethnic Russian in Ukraine. Then all bets are off and your schools, daycares, senior centers and, of course, hospitals are legitimate targets of the Canadian-funded bombing...

Quote:
The NATO powers are not used to defiance. They don't like the "bad" example that Russia's defiance sets for people or countries in Europe who may wish to battle EU-dictated austerity and violations of national sovereignty, as, for example, the people in Greece and, more recently, in Britain are trying to do.

Absolutely bang on.

Quote:
As in the U.S. and Europe, mainstream media in Canada does little or nothing to accurately inform the public of the true state of affairs in Ukraine and Crimea and the broader region. Instead, it is increasingly parroting whatever line emanates from NATO country capitals while adding its own unique stamp to the mix.

The subservient MSM media ...

Quote:
Since last year's election in Canada, the language coming out of Ottawa with respect to Russia has shifted ever so slightly. Stéphane Dion has been speaking of the need for "dialogue" with Russia. But nothing with respect to policy has changed.

more of the same from the Lieberals ...

What should Canadian peaceniks do?

Quote:
As Canadians begin to rebuild an antiwar movement out of the ashes of the old, four key demands should come to the fore. One is to end the sanctions, threats and outright attacks by NATO and Ukraine against Russia, Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Two is to demand the government in Kyiv implement the terms of the ceasefire agreement it signed in Minsk in February 2015.

Thirdly and fourthly, it is high time to renew two historic demands of the peace and antiwar movements over the decades which, sadly, have a new urgency:

Abolish nuclear weapons!

Canada out of the NATO alliance!

Now that would be a good start. But that "Opposition" will not come from the stinking traitors in Parliament. It must come from the citizenry, from an empowered left-led Canadian Anti-War Movement ...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

bwa ha ha. My posts are being deleted. again.

note: trying to edit but having no success. I posted a link to Roger Annis's excellent column with my usual incendiary remarks but .. nada so far.

Here is the link - the article is a good read.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Roger Annis: Canada joins NATO's war escalation in eastern Europe

R Annis wrote:
Ukraine's "Anti-Terrorist Operation" in the east heavily targets residential neighbourhoods. In addition to houses and apartment buildings, schools, daycare centers and even medical centers have been struck by Ukrainian tank and other artillery shelling. The ongoing reports of the Donetsk International News Agency document the havoc. (Latest report, dated July 11, is here).

Our PM's son got to witness, first hand, practice of such atrocities. Oh joy, Canada, the "peaceable" Kingdom. Except if you're ethnic Russian in Ukraine. Then all bets are off and your schools, daycares, senior centers and, of course, hospitals are legitimate targets of the Canadian-funded bombing...

Quote:
The NATO powers are not used to defiance. They don't like the "bad" example that Russia's defiance sets for people or countries in Europe who may wish to battle EU-dictated austerity and violations of national sovereignty, as, for example, the people in Greece and, more recently, in Britain are trying to do.

Absolutely bang on.

Quote:
As in the U.S. and Europe, mainstream media in Canada does little or nothing to accurately inform the public of the true state of affairs in Ukraine and Crimea and the broader region. Instead, it is increasingly parroting whatever line emanates from NATO country capitals while adding its own unique stamp to the mix.

The subservient MSM media ...

Quote:
Since last year's election in Canada, the language coming out of Ottawa with respect to Russia has shifted ever so slightly. Stéphane Dion has been speaking of the need for "dialogue" with Russia. But nothing with respect to policy has changed.

more of the same from the Lieberals ...

What should Canadian peaceniks do?

Quote:
As Canadians begin to rebuild an antiwar movement out of the ashes of the old, four key demands should come to the fore. One is to end the sanctions, threats and outright attacks by NATO and Ukraine against Russia, Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Two is to demand the government in Kyiv implement the terms of the ceasefire agreement it signed in Minsk in February 2015.

Thirdly and fourthly, it is high time to renew two historic demands of the peace and antiwar movements over the decades which, sadly, have a new urgency:

Abolish nuclear weapons!

Canada out of the NATO alliance!

Now that would be a good start. But that "Opposition" will not come from Parliament. It must come from the citizenry, from an empowered left-led Canadian Anti-War Movement ...

NorthReport

Canada is joined at the hip with the USA - get used to it!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Some quotes from the Roger Annis article

Roger Annis wrote:
Ukraine's "Anti-Terrorist Operation" in the east heavily targets residential neighbourhoods. In addition to houses and apartment buildings, schools, daycare centers and even medical centers have been struck by Ukrainian tank and other artillery shelling. The ongoing reports of the Donetsk International News Agency document the havoc. (Latest report, dated July 11, is here).

Our PM's son got to witness, first hand, practice of such atrocities. Oh joy, Canada, the "peaceable" Kingdom. Except if you're ethnic Russian in Ukraine. Then all bets are off and your schools, day-cares, senior centers and, of course, hospitals are legitimate targets of the Canadian-funded bombing...

Quote:
The NATO powers are not used to defiance. They don't like the "bad" example that Russia's defiance sets for people or countries in Europe who may wish to battle EU-dictated austerity and violations of national sovereignty, as, for example, the people in Greece and, more recently, in Britain are trying to do.

I think it's useful to show the connection between neo-liberal austerity OT1H, and militarism OTOH. Annis also draws attention to the subservient MSM here in Canada ...

Quote:
As in the U.S. and Europe, mainstream media in Canada does little or nothing to accurately inform the public of the true state of affairs in Ukraine and Crimea and the broader region. Instead, it is increasingly parroting whatever line emanates from NATO country capitals while adding its own unique stamp to the mix.

... hence the necessity of supporting alternative media, like rabble.ca!

Quote:
Since last year's election in Canada, the language coming out of Ottawa with respect to Russia has shifted ever so slightly. Stéphane Dion has been speaking of the need for "dialogue" with Russia. But nothing with respect to policy has changed.

Despite the talk, the "Lieberals" demonstrate much of the same policy as their odious Conservative predecessors ...

Finally, what to do? Annis addresses this very well.

Quote:
As Canadians begin to rebuild an antiwar movement out of the ashes of the old, four key demands should come to the fore. One is to end the sanctions, threats and outright attacks by NATO and Ukraine against Russia, Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Two is to demand the government in Kyiv implement the terms of the ceasefire agreement it signed in Minsk in February 2015.

Thirdly and fourthly, it is high time to renew two historic demands of the peace and antiwar movements over the decades which, sadly, have a new urgency:

Abolish nuclear weapons!

Canada out of the NATO alliance!

This will not come from the Parliamentary cretins.


 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I suppose it is also worth mentioning that the attempted coup d'etat in Turkey exposes the misleading claim that NATO is an alliance of "democracies". Regardless of the success or failure of this particular coup, the truth is that Turkey has a long history of such coups. But it never gets in the way of a "good" predatory military alliance.

The coup is an embarrassment to NATO ... which may partly explain their [mostly] sheepish silence.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture
ikosmos ikosmos's picture

The article could easily go in a number of threads (evidence of pathological Russophobia, Canadian foreign and military policy, etc.) but perhaps this is the best one. The utter worthlessness of Canada's membership in NATO - minus, of course, those sections of the working class BOUGHT OFF with military production jobs - is, perhaps, the most important part of this story.

Climenhaga blog: If there's no Russian threat to the Baltics, why are Canada's soldiers there again?

David Climenhaga wrote:
Back on June 20, General Petr Pavel let it slip publicly what everyone in the know already knew, and that is that the Russians pose no threat to the three Baltic Republics, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

Gen. Pavel should know. After all, in addition to being until last year the Chief of Staff of the Czech Army, he's now chair of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's Military Committee, which makes him theoretically the top soldier in NATO.

No threat? But, why all the military build-up and provocations on the Russian border?

Quote:
If we're only doing this, as some observers have cynically suggested, to justify the purchase of American designed and built weapons under NATO's notorious requirement that member nations spend two per cent of their GDPs on armaments -- a policy that emphasizes only expenditures and neither efficiency nor strategy -- we might want to consider dialling it down. Looking out for the only remaining healthy industrial sector in the U.S. economy doesn't really seem like a very fair reason to risk nuclear annihilation.

All those in favour of nuclear annihilation put up your hand.

Rikardo

Its time for Canadians and Canada to stop pretending that Europe needs Canada to contribute to its defence from its perceived enemies, whoever they may be (Russia?). For Canada to send its military to a country in Europe is dangerous, destabilizing, unnecessary and provocative…What if Russia sent troops to Mexico? In the USA more and more voices, even that of Donald Trump are questioning the enormous expense to North America of “defending” Europe. Do France, Germany and the UK, all with modern militaries, even nuclear weapons, need Canada to defend them? Only Canada and the USA of all the countries in the Americas are part of what should simply be the military arm of the European Union.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

There is plenty of evidence that NATO was never about defending western europe, but rather always about projecting American Imperial power. For example, a recent book by Joshua Rubenstein about Stalin's death and the events which followed concludes that Soviet leaders launched a serious reform movement, including overtures to the Americans, as soon as he died. Excerpt from a Guardian review of this book:

Sheila Fitzpatrick wrote:

His last days make a dramatic story and Rubenstein tells it well – with particular attention to the anti-semitic campaign on which, as author of Stalin’s Secret Pogrom (2001), he is an expert. But it’s what happened next that is really interesting. More than half of this new book is devoted to the year after Stalin’s death, when his old gang – the Politburo members, including Vyacheslav Molotov, Georgy Malenkov and Nikita Khrushchev, who had worked with him for many years – took over, and, to almost everyone’s astonishment, launched immediately into wide-ranging fundamental reforms, including attempts to improve relations with the west.

My own book, On Stalin’s Team: the Years of Living Dangerously in Soviet Politics, published last year, covers some of the same ground as Stalin’s Last Days, though neither of us knew that at the time of our respective writing. But whereas my focus is on domestic political developments, Rubenstein’s is on the foreign and international dimensions. It is a fascinating and at the same time disconcerting story. If you grew up, as I did, with John Foster Dulles as cold war villain and bogeyman of the left, you may subsequently have wondered if he could possibly have been as bad as he was painted. Judging by Rubenstein, who is fair-minded almost to a fault, the answer is yes.

The speed and energy with which the new leaders embarked on reform was breathtaking. Already, at Stalin’s funeral, the new head of government, Malenkov, was talking about détente and the new security boss, Lavrenty Beria, about legality and constitutional protections. Within weeks, the antisemitic campaign was called off and the (mainly Jewish) Kremlin physicians accused in the Doctors’ Plot exonerated and freed. In short order, a million prisoners were released from the Gulag under an amnesty, the powers of the security police curtailed, more consumer goods and public housing promised, cultural controls loosened, and overtures made to the west about improving relations.

iyraste1313

Breaking: German Opposition Leader Calls for Collective Security Union with Russia, Dissolution of NATO By Lewis Sanders IV

  DW.com 17 January 2017

Canada with its vacuous political leadership not to mention bought and paid for imtelligencia...will again be left out in the cold...first on the rout of the neoliberal forces, now with its geopolitical eggs in one basket

kropotkin1951

That is an interesting development. While it is only the Left Party they are the largest opposition party. I like the fact that they are trying to use Trump's views on NATO to push for a German withdrawal from NATO and a new security arrangement that would include Russia. Maybe the election of Trump will have unintended consequences for him and the rest of the ruling elite. The breakup of NATO would be a perverse result for the US and an unexpected benefit for the people of the planet. 

Quote:

German opposition leader Sahra Wagenknecht on Tuesday added her voice to calls to dissolve the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in the wake of US President-elect Donald Trump’s controversial remarks concerning the military alliance

“NATO must be dissolved and replaced by a collective security system including Russia,” Wagenknecht told Germany’s “Funke” media group.

Wagenknecht, who leads the opposition Left Party in parliament, added that comments made by the future US president “mercilessly reveal the mistakes and failures of the [German] federal government.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breaking-german-opposition-leader-calls-for...

 

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

That is an interesting development. While it is only the Left Party they are the largest opposition party. I like the fact that they are trying to use Trump's views on NATO to push for a German withdrawal from NATO and a new security arrangement that would include Russia. Maybe the election of Trump will have unintended consequences for him and the rest of the ruling elite. The breakup of NATO would be a perverse result for the US and an unexpected benefit for the people of the planet. 

Quote:

German opposition leader Sahra Wagenknecht on Tuesday added her voice to calls to dissolve the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in the wake of US President-elect Donald Trump’s controversial remarks concerning the military alliance

“NATO must be dissolved and replaced by a collective security system including Russia,” Wagenknecht told Germany’s “Funke” media group.

Wagenknecht, who leads the opposition Left Party in parliament, added that comments made by the future US president “mercilessly reveal the mistakes and failures of the [German] federal government.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/breaking-german-opposition-leader-calls-for...

 

Way back when there was a faint hope of sanity, over a decade ago here, I advocated that the way to end the cold war was to have a NATO like organization include Russia. By integrating Russia into the common protection shield you can end the cold war.

It still is the essential approach, the only answer. There will be a cold war with Russia until this is done.

In the meantime, I advocated (something that did not happen) for a freeze on adding NATO Members. I do not think former East Block Countries should have been permitted to enter NATO. Instead there should have only been a proposal to merge NATO with all the these countries' security arrangements -- including Russia.

For a time I thought that NATO had a chance to be relevant -- if it had admitted Russia ahead of the other former East Block Countries, NATO might have become relevant rather than remaining a problem.

NDPP

If the West succeeds in their Russian regime change plans, we could indeed see Russia in NATO. Perish the thought.  NATO will never be relevant. The sooner it is put to death, the better we shall all be.

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

If this were given some teeth, it might be what we are looking for?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Security_and_Co-operation...

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I think there was some hope on the Russian side that the OSCE could play such a positive role. The Russian FM staff still probably mouth the words of making the OSCE more useful, but they have definitely soured on that organization as a result of the shamelessly partisan role in the Ukrainian civil war. They were part of the problem of keeping the conflict boiling.

6079_Smith_W

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Way back when there was a faint hope of sanity, over a decade ago here, I advocated that the way to end the cold war was to have a NATO like organization include Russia. By integrating Russia into the common protection shield you can end the cold war.

Perhaps good in theory, but do you honestly think Poland and other border states would agree to be part of such an arrangement? I don't think they have forgotten the last time, which is part of the reason why we are where we are right now. And if Trump is right about anything, he is right about the fact that those states are the ones who want those NATO troops there far more than the U.S. and western European members. Pretending that the only dynamic here is U.S. aggression is willful ignorance.

I can understand that Wagenknecht would want a less confrontational approach with Russia, but to propose something like that at this point flies in the face of reality. I can't believe she would think anyone (well almost anyone) would take it seriously. That line is the whole reason for the international tensions in the first place. How is pretending it does not exist going to de-escalate the situation?

Honestly? I see it as political game playing, because it is clearly a non-starter. None of the countries between Germany and Russia would ever agree to it.

iyraste1313

 I see it as political game playing, because it is clearly a non-starter. None of the countries between Germany and Russia would ever agree to it.

......this is wishful thinking....I suggest you watch a little more closely what is going on.....first Turkey, a sea change in its geopolitical alignment....

and the countries threatening to withdraw from the EU? Hungary, Slovakia come to mind...I´m sure there are some major shifts going on....it would be good to hear other´s suggestions of countries mulling their political futures...

 

NDPP

New US Defence Secretary, A Friend of Canada, Former Top Soldier Says

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/new-u-s-defence-secretary-a-friend-of-can...

"Jim Mattis is a great friend to Canada,' Lawson said in an interview. Gov Gen David Johnston, on Lawson's advice, in 2013 awarded Mattis the meritorious service cross for leadership in the US Armed Forces and NATO in Afghanistan. The commendation notes Mattis provided unprecedented access and championed Canadian participation in critical policy and training events, and strengthened Canada-US relations by demanding unequivocal support and unwavering commitment to Canada.

Canada has other military ties to the new Trump cabinet: Gen Jonathan Vance, Canada's current chief of defence staff, is very close to Lieut Gen Mike Flynn, Lawson noted. Flynn has been named Trump's national security adviser. 'That'll be very useful to our prime minister and defence minister as they go ahead. The greatest challenge will be if Mr Trump and his entire administration loses faith, or has truly lost faith in NATO and starts to back off on their support..."

Why am I not reassurred...?

6079_Smith_W

Let me know when Poland comes around, iyraste.

 

Sean in Ottawa

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Way back when there was a faint hope of sanity, over a decade ago here, I advocated that the way to end the cold war was to have a NATO like organization include Russia. By integrating Russia into the common protection shield you can end the cold war.

Perhaps good in theory, but do you honestly think Poland and other border states would agree to be part of such an arrangement? I don't think they have forgotten the last time, which is part of the reason why we are where we are right now. And if Trump is right about anything, he is right about the fact that those states are the ones who want those NATO troops there far more than the U.S. and western European members. Pretending that the only dynamic here is U.S. aggression is willful ignorance.

I can understand that Wagenknecht would want a less confrontational approach with Russia, but to propose something like that at this point flies in the face of reality. I can't believe she would think anyone (well almost anyone) would take it seriously. That line is the whole reason for the international tensions in the first place. How is pretending it does not exist going to de-escalate the situation?

Honestly? I see it as political game playing, because it is clearly a non-starter. None of the countries between Germany and Russia would ever agree to it.

I think you are missing the point here. I said what ti would take to end the cold war. You say that is unrealistic right now. I agree with that as well.

I disagree that these countries could not have been open to a military pact with Russia -- with the United States in it. In those early days this would have been possible -- they woudl have seen the international benefit of stability and having been joined to the USSR previously would not have had as much of a problem attached to a more global pact that included the US. I think now that opportunity is gone for at least a generation.

I still beleive that so long as the US and Russia remain apart in a standoff you cannot avoid the posturing we see now.

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
And if Trump is right about anything, he is right about the fact that those states are the ones who want those NATO troops there far more than the U.S. and western European members. Pretending that the only dynamic here is U.S. aggression is willful ignorance.

So... Lithuania doesn't want to become Novo-NovoRussia?

What about all those ethnic Russian colonists?  Should they all just die??

6079_Smith_W

No, I didn't miss the point. My main question was why wagenknecht is bringing it up now, considering it has zero  chance of happening in the short term. I see it as amping up the tensions, rather than reducing them. Like I said, great in theory, except that in an even more perfect world there would be no need for military alliances at all.

iyraste1313

It`s called movement! One starts a trend, and others jump on it.......it`s called developing useful strategy to transform the planet....so all these it will never happen people are really just obstructions to movement...

we are on a roll now...and we need a movement in Canada that will jump at the chance!

iyraste1313

Donald Trump BATTERS Brussels with order to STOP EU Army plans or lose US Nato supportPRESIDENT TRUMP will demand Brussels abandons plans for an EU Army if it wants the US is to continue its support for Nato.By MARCO GIANNANGELI AND CAROLINE WHEELER - EXCLUSIVE....

His ignorance can only help the forces to free Europe from US control...great news!

NDPP

NATO And Western Militarism In A Multipolar World (and vid)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/nato-and-western-militarism-in-a-multipolar...

"Michael Welch, Radhika Desai, Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya, Paul Kellog, Roger Annis."

NDPP

"NATO Is Committed To Diversity and Inclusion..."

https://twitter.com/Gottemoeller/status/864874129597640704

And war.

NDPP

Halifax International Security Forum: CDN/US Ambassadors To NATO and Presser

https://www.facebook.com/HalifaxTheforum/videos/vb.217717424959003/16411...

Western imperialism's NATO warmongers speak in Halifax. @30 minutes

NDPP

International Criminal Court To Investigate CIA Black Sites in Afghanistan

https://on.rt.com/8spe

"The investigation will also examine war crimes and human rights violations committed by the United States AND ITS ALLIES..."

Sajjan: nervous?

NDPP

 NATO's Canada-Trained Ukraine AZOV Nazi Troops Receive Commemorative Maple-Leaf Medallion

https://twitter.com/mikolaswed/status/913468028741996545

For those who've forgotten...

Amnesty International Documents War Crimes By Pro-Kiev Militia

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/11/ukra-s11.html

"Members of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion are playing the central role in the authorities' battle for control..."

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