NATO's Canadian Commander in Libya, Charles Bouchard Must Stand Trial for War Crimes

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NDPP

Rikardo, you are right and I agree with everything you say about the  ICC. No possibilities there. There are other fora possible including, prosecution of Bouchard under the Canadian Criminal Code. Of course that would first require that Canadians actually learn who he is and what he does. Stupidity and servility are the foremost obstacles to any forward motion on this and other pressing political problems.

Frmrsldr

Rikardo wrote:

It was the World Federalists, Lloyd Axworthy, Canada, Britain and France and other zealous Western "international" legalists that set it [the ICC] up, through the 2002 Rome Treaty. Russia, China, India and the USA don't support it.

If the ICC is not beholden to the U.S.A., Russia, China, India, etc., then one would think there would be less political pressure on the ICC from these countries, the flip side of which is greater political, moral and legal freedom for the ICC.

There's nothing wrong with the laws in place.

It's in the misapplication or lack of application of the laws where we stumble and reveal our shortcomings as human beings.

Frmrsldr

NDPP wrote:

There are other fora possible including, prosecution of Bouchard under the Canadian Criminal Code.

As a signatory to the Rome Statute and that part of the Rome Statue that establishes the ICC, previous Canadian governments have ensured that the Canadian Criminal Code is in line with the Geneva Conventions and the Rome Statute and other relevant laws concerning war, war crimes, human rights and human rights violations/atrocities in war &etc., and that they do not contradict these laws.

NDPP

the problem is the criminals, themselves control the process. And that's before we even get to the little matter of enforcement. This should be the point at which international 'civil society' forces the issue and demands accountablility. But as is probably obvious to you already, there's not a whole lot of fire in the belly especially in these parts to bother with Bouchard's awful crimes. Besides, this was unanimously approved by all parties save one, duly elected to represent us all in the Canadian parliament. Iraq, Afghanistan  and now Libya.  Democracy works. Libya is free eh?

NDPP

Libya: The Criminal Face of Imperialism  - by Bill Van Auken

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/pers-a27.shtml

"Operation United Protector' as NATO dubbed its military onslaught, would have been more accurately described as 'Operation Gang Rape'. The pretense that thsi was a war to protect civilians has been exposed as a moral obscenity with the death toll in Tripoli alone climbing into the thousands and NATO bombs and missiles continuing to fall in heavily populated areas.."

 

NDPP

Never Forgive, Never Forget  -  by Stephen Lendman

http://warisacrime.org/content/never-forgive-never-forget

"After covering Libya's rape since last winter in dozens of articles, no forgiving is possible for one of history's greatest crimes. Nor is ignoring those responsible, condemning them forthrightly and explaining why all wars are waged. NATO outdid Orwell on this one, killing truth by calling war the responsibility to protect - by terrorizing, attacking and slaughtering civilians like psychopathic assassins.

When is war not war? It's when committing cold-blooded murder is called the right thing. When major media scoundrels cheerlead it, and when most people beleive it because they're too indifferent, uncaring or lazy to learn the truth..."

 

NDPP

Atrocities Raise Concerns About Libyan Rebels  -  by Grame Smith

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/africa-mideast/atrocities-rais...

"Individuals within the NATO command structure could be exposed to allegations of aiding and abetting, said Stuart Hardin, a University of Ottawa scholar who specializes in armed conflict and human rights..."

NATO's Commander Lt. Gen. Charles 'The Butcher' Bouchard must answer for these and other crimes. Who will say so?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/libya270811.html]Open Letter to the Peoples of Africa and the World from Concerned Africans[/url]

Quote:
We, the undersigned, are ordinary citizens of Africa who are immensely pained and angered that fellow Africans are and have been subjected to the fury of war by foreign powers which have clearly repudiated the noble and very relevant vision enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations....

On March 10, the African Union Peace and Security Council adopted an important Resolution (3) which spelt out the roadmap to address the Libyan conflict, consistent with the obligations of the AU under Chapter VIII of the UN Charter.

When the UN Security Council adopted its Resolution 1973, it was aware of the AU decision which had been announced seven days earlier.

By deciding to ignore this fact, the Security Council further and consciously contributed to the subversion of international law as well as undermining the legitimacy of the UN in the eyes of the African people.

In other ways since then, it has helped to promote and entrench the immensely pernicious process of the international marginalisation of Africa even with regard to the resolution of the problems of the Continent.

Contrary to the provisions of the UN Charter, the UN Security Council declared its own war on Libya on March 17, 2011....

... this post continues below

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
Thus, first of all, the Security Council used the still unresolved issue in international law of "the right to protect", the so-called R2P, to justify the Chapter VII military intervention in Libya.

In this context the UN Security Council has committed a litany of offences which have underlined, the further transformation of the Council into a willing instrument of the most powerful among its Member States.

Thus the Security Council produced no evidence to prove that its authorisation of the use of force under Chapter VII of the UN Charter was a proportionate and appropriate response to what had, in reality, in Libya, developed into a civil war.

It then proceeded to 'outsource' or 'sub-contract' the implementation of its resolutions to NATO, mandating this military alliance to act as a 'coalition of the willing'.

It did not put in place any mechanism and process to supervise the 'sub-contractor', to ensure that it faithfully honours the provisions of its Resolutions.

It has made no effort otherwise to monitor and analyse the actions of NATO in this regard.

It has allowed the establishment of a legally unauthorised 'Contact Group', yet another 'coalition of the willing', which has displaced it as the authority which has the effective responsibility to help determine the future of Libya.

To confirm this unacceptable reality, the July 15, 2011 meeting of the 'Contact Group' in Istanbul "reaffirmed that the Contact Group remains the appropriate platform for the international community to be a focal point of contact with the Libyan people, to coordinate international policy and to be a forum for discussion of humanitarian and post-conflict support."

Duly permitted by the Security Council, the two 'coalitions of the willing', NATO and the 'Contact Group', have effectively and practically rewritten Resolution 1973....

The actions of its 'sub-contractors', NATO and the 'Contact Group', have positioned the UN as a partisan belligerent in the Libyan conflict, rather than a committed but neutral peacemaker standing equidistant from the Libyan armed factions.

The Security Council has further wilfully decided to repudiate the rule of international law by consciously ignoring the provisions of Chapter VIII of the UN Charter relating to the role of legitimate regional institutions....

The UN Security Council must therefore know that at least with regard to Libya, it has acted in a manner which will result in and has led to the loss of its moral authority effectively to preside over the critical processes of achieving global peace and the realisation of the objective of peaceful coexistence among the diverse peoples of the world.

Contrary to the provisions of the UN Charter, the UN Security Council authorised and has permitted the destruction and anarchy which has descended on the Libyan people....

Those who have brought a deadly rain of bombs to Libya today should not delude themselves to believe that the apparent silence of the millions of Africans means that Africa approves of the campaign of death, destruction and domination which that rain represents.

We are confident that tomorrow we will emerge victorious, regardless of the death-seeking power of the most powerful armies in the world.

The answer we must provide practically, and as Africans, is -- when, and in what ways, will we act resolutely and meaningfully to defend the right of the Africans of Libya to decide their future, and therefore the right and duty of all Africans to determine their destiny!

The letter was signed by more than 200 prominent Africans, including ANC national executive member Jesse Duarte, political analyst Willie Esterhuyse of the University of Stellenbosch, former intelligence minister Ronnie Kasrils, lawyer Christine Qunta, former deputy foreign affairs minister Aziz Pahad, former minister in the presidency Essop Pahad, Sam Moyo of the African Institute for Agrarian Studies, former president Thabo Mbeki's spokesman Mukoni Ratshitanga, and poet Wally Serote.

NDPP

and virtually unopposed in this country, it must be said.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

txs m. spector

..another fucking huge, human disaster. created for the benefit of a few powerful elite.

howeird beale

North Korea, Hoodeet?

Really?

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

They've got the scum of the country marauding through neighborhoods and back alleys to worry about now. Taste the freedom, Libya!

 

What like scum wasnt running their country before? When Karzai gets cut loose from his puppet masters, will he too be transfigured, like Paul the Apostle, into a hero?

 

 

"In July last year, Swiss police arrested him and his wife, then heavily pregnant, for apparently beating up their servants in a Geneva hotel.

The couple were charged after staff at the President Wilson Hotel - where the Gaddafis were staying as Miss Skaf prepared to give birth in a Geneva hospital - claimed they were beaten with a belt and a clothes hanger.

Two of Hannibal's bodyguards were also held after they clashed with police making the arrest.

The couple, who denied wrongdoing, were later released on bail and the complaint was dropped after the two servants received compensation from an undisclosed source.

But the incident led to a long-running diplomatic stand-off, with Libya stopping oil exports to Switzerland, boycotting Swiss imports, cutting flights between the two countries and refusing visas to Swiss citizens.

The playboy, who was educated at Copenhagen Business School, has also had run-ins with the authorities in France.

Hannibal was arrested in 2005 at a Paris hotel for punching Miss Skaf, then his girlfriend, who was eight months pregnant.

He allegedly beat her after she refused to let him into a room at the Grand Hotel. Police were called when he brandished a handgun.

Mr Gaddafi then moved to another hotel where he went on the rampage, smashing furniture in a £500-a-night suite.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1239304/Gaddafis-son-wifes-screams-coming-4-000-Claridges-suite-1-30am-Christmas-Day.html#ixzz1WU9fALUy

NDPP

A few words from 'The Butcher'...

NATO's Operation Unified Protecter:

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_72972.htm

'All NATO's targets are military in nature and have been closely linked to the Qadhafi regime's systematic attacks on the Libyan population and population areas. We do not target individuals,' said Lieutenant-General Charles Bouchard, Commander of NATO's Operation Unified Protector.

As NATO and partner foreign ministers made clear, NATO will continue operations until all attacks and threats against civilians have ceased; until all of Qadhafi's forces, including his snipers, mercenaries and paramilitary forces have verifiably withdrawn to their bases, and until there is full, free and unhindered access to humanitarian aid to all those in Libya who need it..."

Our warcriminal lies badly but kills better

 

The Use of Force Against Libya: Another Illegal Use of Force  -  by Curtis Doebbler

http://jurist.org/forum/2011/03/the-use-of-force-against-libya-another-i...

"International humanitarian law requires that the Western forces may not be directed against civilian facilities in Libya. The Western world has sent undeniable signal to the international community through their actions and despite some of their words, that international law does not matter to them."

Northern Shoveler Northern Shoveler's picture

What kind of fucking warped logic says if your country is run by a corrupt nasty regime then Canada has the right to murder you in your beds but only for your own good.  Of course this only applies to certain countries not our current friendly dictators like the Arab monarchs who rule across the Middle east with a brutal fist.  Those countries we sell small arms and citizen repressing vehicles to.  

Hoodeet

howeird beale wrote:

North Korea, Hoodeet?

Really?

Hoodeet (JW)

Yes, because it's a people's army, not a mercenary army or a simple killing machine like the US and the UK.  An ideologically cohesive army not that different from the Chinese PLA or the Red Army or the Vietnamese and Cuban armies, with political and cultural and athletic programs at the core of its training.  It's one factor that enabled North Korea to fight the combined might of the west to a stalemate and then to be a crucial element in the reconstruction of a country bombed to smithereens by the US when it was unable to force it to surrender.  (All that was left standing  in Pyongyang were factory chimneys.) 

Hoodeet

Northern Shoveler wrote:

What kind of fucking warped logic says if your country is run by a corrupt nasty regime then Canada has the right to murder you in your beds but only for your own good.  Of course this only applies to certain countries not our current friendly dictators like the Arab monarchs who rule across the Middle east with a brutal fist.  Those countries we sell small arms and citizen repressing vehicles to.  

Hoodeet (JW)

 

Hear! Hear!

As for Hannibal Ghaddafi's behaviour with his servants, of course it was beyond the pale.  But then who is going after the Arab, African, Asian and Latin American diplomats and billionaires who use their servants as slaves?  Not to excuse him, but he really was no different from the hundreds of nasty racist classist creeps who hold virtual slaves even outside their own countries, in their residences around the world. 

P.S.:  I thought this thread was about OUR war criminals.

howeird beale

All hail the Korean peoples struggle for 3 generations of dynastic succession!

Hoodeet

howeird beale wrote:

All hail the Korean peoples struggle for 3 generations of dynastic succession!

Hoodeet (JW)

Yeah. Whatever. Of course. 

But rulers were not the topic under discussion in the posts I was responding to, which was about people's armies..

 All I did was include the DPRK army as one modelled on the Red Army and the PLA. 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Just ignore the thread-derailing troll.

Erik Redburn

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

Erik Redburn wrote:

Ahahaha.  Good one.

 

We could hope that the politicians pay for their crimes in this illegal war, but we both know that will never happen.  Most people on this forum are quiet happy with convicting the pawns of this conflict, while maintaining the status quo for their favorite political party.

 

Ok ok.  Just for this I'll keep biting awhile longer.   I'm glad you recognise it'll never actually happen either but really now -MOst people here?  Do you really hold other lefties here responsible somehow?  What exactly are you and NDPP and other hardliners doing about it yourselves?

NDPP

'hardliners'? As opposed to what? Softliners? Noliners? Flatliners? or just Babblers?  I take this Canadian NATO butcher's mass murdering in my name, very seriously. As should you. So everything I can man, everything I can.

NATO's Peaceful and Sustainable Political Solution: Turn Tripoli Into A Slaughterhouse

http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/08/26/natos-peaceful-and-susta...

"NATO has been described as the rebel air force, but it is more accurate to describe the rebels as NATO's ground forces. The National Transitional Council has little independence and NATO controls the rebel ground forces, arms them, trains them, provides advisers, provides massive fire support and decides on strategy. NATO controls the air and sea and little moves on the ground without NATO's permission.

In any case, in an attack coordinated by NATO [Lt. Gen Charles Bouchard, Commander, NATO Operation Unified Protector] rebels from the Western Mountains entered Tripoli from the west and ships delivered fighters from Misrata, fresh from ethnically cleansing Tawergha, into the city, NATO airstrikes were launched against the residential area of Abu Salim.

The short term results from a humanitarian perspective were predictable: widespread destruction, looting, a collapse of public services, executions, widespread death and destruction and the deaths of hundreds of civilians (particularly black people), militia and fighters on both sides."

Warcrimes charges now aginst NATO's Canadian butcher-boy in Libya, Gen Charles Bouchard!

 

Erik Redburn

Demanding that our entire Parliament save one should be deposed over this is a hardline position, yes.   Especially without any apparent thought on who or what we'll replace them all with.  

But again, what are YOU doing about it?   Going to march down to Ottawa, Washington and Brussels to place all the guilty parties under citizens arrest?

NDPP

NTC: NATO Ensured Victory, Must Stay in Libya

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/updates-on-libyan-warstop-nat...

"NATO must extend stay: NTC"

howeird beale

M. Spector wrote:

Just ignore the thread-derailing troll.

 

Hey, I'm not the one who threw that wild card into the discussion: "Hey, y'know who who's really got it goin' on? North Korea!"

 

nice try. LOL

NDPP

'West Aims to Neo-Colonize N. Africa (and vid)

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/196681.html

"Genocide, racism and the forced removal of millions in Libya, are part of a Western scheme to re-conquer and neo-colonize North Africa, says political analyst..."

War crimes charges of NATO's Canadian butcher-boy in Libya, Lt. Gen. Charles Bouchard.

Hoodeet

NDPP wrote:

NTC: NATO Ensured Victory, Must Stay in Libya

http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/updates-on-libyan-warstop-nat...

"NATO must extend stay: NTC"

Hoodeet (JW)

"Butcher" Bouchard is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Hoodeet

howeird beale wrote:

M. Spector wrote:

Just ignore the thread-derailing troll.

that's very different from the armies of capitalist-controlled states.   Please reread the original thread and my post before venting.  

 

Hey, I'm not the one who threw that wild card into the discussion: "Hey, y'know who who's really got it goin' on? North Korea!"

 

nice try. LOL

 

Hoodeet (JW)

Once again:  I was not making value judgments about the Korean régime, just adding the DPRK army to the list of people's armies which follow a model that's quite different from the armies of capitalist-controlled states.

howeird beale

I dont accept the premise that they're a "people's army"

They're a goon squad for a family business. They might as well be Pinkertons.

Also, Qaddafi's kids stayed in $4,000 a night hotel rooms for "the people," cuz the people know a $300 bottle of Johnny Walker Blue just tastes better when you pay a grand to have room service bring it up

Hoodeet

howeird beale wrote:

I dont accept the premise that they're a "people's army"

They're a goon squad for a family business. They might as well be Pinkertons.

Also, Qaddafi's kids stayed in $4,000 a night hotel rooms for "the people," cuz the people know a $300 bottle of Johnny Walker Blue just tastes better when you pay a grand to have room service bring it up

Hoodeet (JW)

You may not think it's a "people's army" but then Gladio doesn't think the Red Army was a "people's army" and others don't think the Chinese PLA or the Cuban FAR are, either.  Your subjectivity aside, they are armies with cultural and political components lacking in our armies. 

End it now, please.  Or go troll on Glenn Beck's or Michelle Bachmann's web sites.

As for Ghaddafi's boys' life style:  that still does not warrant bombing Libyan infrastructure to hell and turning loose thousands of jihadists and of grudgebearers from the days of the old monarchy, all in the name of democracy. We all know why NATO is doing what it's doing. Period.  Or else we'd have stirred up the hornet's nest in Bahrain, Saudi, Kuwait etc. etc. years ago.   

So we should commit war crimes because of the life style of the rich and famous?  Follow that argument and you would have to justify car bombing the likes of Strauss-Kahn with HIS 4,000-a night suite, or Bill Clinton who brazenly pulls in 100K for his lectures while he's figuring out new ways to screw Haiti and help prop up his buddy Kagama in Rwanda.  Give me a break. 

 

 

NDPP

I agree - this country is full of fat cats swigging and guzzling far more than the Ghadaffi's - with a considerably less mean standard accorded the average citizen as well. I continue to be appalled by the support proferred to this evil intervention and the blase attitude towards the reprehensible role of this country. That NATO's Libyan campaign can be led by a Canadian commander, with so much studied indifference or outright cheerleading, on a supposedly progressive board, is a testament to the growing rightist, bankrupcy of Canadian poltiical culture generally. Wake up Canuckleheads - no wonder all the strong genuninely progressive folks are leaving this sinking ship. I hope those that remain stay and defend the territory and that some of those Babblers gone, come back. Their contributions are missed and sorely needed.

NDPP

NATO's Genocidal Rape of Libya  -  by Stephen Lendman

http://mostlywater.org/natos_genocidal_rape_libya

"Continuing NATO atrocities on Libyan civilians gave naked aggression a new name. Call it what it is: Lawless, Wilful, Malevolent, Genocidal Gang Rape, the new supreme international crime against peace ongoing at this time. In times of war, its legal name is Genocide - what NATO planners implemented since last March. [Canada's NATO General, Charles Bouchard, and] Obama's war was naked imperial aggression.

Continued NATO terror bombing is Genocidal Gang Rape. Rebel cuthroats compounded their crimes on the ground. Africa's most developed country is now its least.Thousands of Libyans are dead, many more injured, and the entire country ravaged by mass destruction, deprivation, critical life-sustaining shortages, as well as continuing violence, and Libyans facing dystopian futures unless they're courageous enough to resist what no one should accept.

NATO's war on free Libya may soon end. The liberation struggle has yet to begin. Perhaps its the wild card NATO doesn't expect. Hopefully the human spirit will triumph over imperial might, though never easily or quickly. It's happening in Afghanistan, reemerging in Iraq, blossoming across the region, so perhaps Libyans will surprise NATO planners the same way. Why not when the alternative is too intolerable to accept."

Frmrsldr

NDPP wrote:

NATO's Genocidal Rape of Libya  -  by Stephen Lendman

NATO's war on free Libya may soon end. The liberation struggle has yet to begin. Perhaps its the wild card NATO doesn't expect. Hopefully the human spirit will triumph over imperial might, though never easily or quickly. It's happening in Afghanistan, reemerging in Iraq, blossoming across the region, so perhaps Libyans will surprise NATO planners the same way. Why not when the alternative is too intolerable to accept."

Could very well be.

The situation is similar to Iran.

Briefly, there was a peaceful democratic revolution in Iran in 1953. The Shah fled. The CIA was behind a counterrevolution that succeeded at the time. The Shah was brought back.

Fast forward a quarter century later, the CIA intervention and meddling in 1953 and the years of suppression that followed have their repercussions in the 1979 Iranian Revolution with consequent anti-U.S. blowback.

The same thing could happen in Libya.

We (the U.S./NATO countries) have "succeeded" for the moment.

There may or may not be an interminable quagmire insurgency as there are in Iraq and especially Afghanistan.

But perhaps like Iran, decades down the road Libya might have a "Second Arab Spring" Revolution (assuming what occurred in February and March was the First) that will overthrow this pro-West, pro-American Empire puppet client state regime and establish a truly national and representative Libyan government with an undertone of anti-U.S. blowback.

By then I suspect, NATO, the CIA/Pentagon and the American Empire will no longer even exist.

Frmrsldr

howeird beale wrote:

"In July last year, Swiss police arrested him and his wife, then heavily pregnant, for apparently beating up their servants in a Geneva hotel.

The couple were charged after staff at the President Wilson Hotel - where the Gaddafis were staying as Miss Skaf prepared to give birth in a Geneva hospital - claimed they were beaten with a belt and a clothes hanger.

Two of Hannibal's bodyguards were also held after they clashed with police making the arrest.

The couple, who denied wrongdoing, were later released on bail and the complaint was dropped after the two servants received compensation from an undisclosed source.

But the incident led to a long-running diplomatic stand-off, with Libya stopping oil exports to Switzerland, boycotting Swiss imports, cutting flights between the two countries and refusing visas to Swiss citizens.

The playboy, who was educated at Copenhagen Business School, has also had run-ins with the authorities in France.

Hannibal was arrested in 2005 at a Paris hotel for punching Miss Skaf, then his girlfriend, who was eight months pregnant.

He allegedly beat her after she refused to let him into a room at the Grand Hotel. Police were called when he brandished a handgun.

Mr Gaddafi then moved to another hotel where he went on the rampage, smashing furniture in a £500-a-night suite.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1239304/Gaddafis-son-wifes-screams-coming-4-000-Claridges-suite-1-30am-Christmas-Day.html#ixzz1WU9fALUy

To help put things into context:

http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2011/08/31/irresponsibly-exposing-gadhafi-to...

NDPP

Libya: NATO Acquires Military Outpost in Third Continent  -  by Rick Rozoff (STOPNATO)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26327

"The intent of UN resolution 1973 adopted in March to 'use all means necessary to protect Libyan civilians' has been extended and in essence violated by France, Britain, Italy, the US, CANADA and other major NATO nations to wage what can only be characterized as a war against the incumbent government in Libya.

The coordination of NATO's aerial bombing and naval blockade of Libya with rebel forces is unquestionably an act of participation on behalf of one of the belligerent forces against the other - the government of Libya...

Far from NATO's role ending, it may in a certain sense just be beginning."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

NDPP wrote:

Libya: NATO Acquires Military Outpost in Third Continent  -  by Rick Rozoff (STOPNATO)

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26327

"The intent of UN resolution 1973 adopted in March to 'use all means necessary to protect Libyan civilians' has been extended and in essence violated by France, Britain, Italy, the US, CANADA and other major NATO nations to wage what can only be characterized as a war against the incumbent government in Libya.

The coordination of NATO's aerial bombing and naval blockade of Libya with rebel forces is unquestionably an act of participation on behalf of one of the belligerent forces against the other - the government of Libya...

Far from NATO's role ending, it may in a certain sense just be beginning."

 

That was a good one NDPP... but I also seen on the news this morning before work (it's morning for me, evening for you; I'm in Korea right now) where the Libyans have already said no to this "plan" ie  the observers and police. I hope it stays that way.

In the defense of the UN a plan is only a plan till it's executed... just saying.

By the way I plan on being a millionaire by next month; the party will be at my place and your all invited.

Frmrsldr

Herr Harper expressed today that Canada will remain in Libya "for as long as they're needed."

Whatever that means.

Erik Redburn

NDPP wrote:

I agree - this country is full of fat cats swigging and guzzling far more than the Ghadaffi's - with a considerably less mean standard accorded the average citizen as well. I continue to be appalled by the support proferred to this evil intervention and the blase attitude towards the reprehensible role of this country. That NATO's Libyan campaign can be led by a Canadian commander, with so much studied indifference or outright cheerleading, on a supposedly progressive board, is a testament to the growing rightist, bankrupcy of Canadian poltiical culture generally. Wake up Canuckleheads - no wonder all the strong genuninely progressive folks are leaving this sinking ship. I hope those that remain stay and defend the territory and that some of those Babblers gone, come back. Their contributions are missed and sorely needed.

 

So, once again, what are you doing about it, any plan?

NDPP

Anonymous: Operation Truth of Libya (and vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYdUDN8t4e4

"An informed country is the worst enemy of a corrupt government [or 'loyal opposition'] that wages war for profit..."

Erik Redburn

So.  You have no plan yourself then, other than posting a bunch of articles on a website few people even know about.   Thanks for answering my question. 

NDPP

You answered your own question. I think you prefer it that way. I think I do too.

 

Erik Redburn

Oh I do, nice to see we have something in common.  But if you fail to answer the obvious question, when you issue a demand on others, you shouldn't be surprised if they draw the only logical conclusion.  

NDPP

NATO Has Conducted 7920 Strike Sorties Since March 31, 2011: Its Mandate is R2P

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26332

 

NATO's Secret Weapon - Racism

http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/09/01/natos-secret-weapon-racism

"Human Rights investigations has been repeatedly warning about the Libyan rebels and it has become increasingly clear that racism lies at the heart of the conflict in Libya. Many of the fighters have been recruited and motivated on the basis of psy-ops about African mercenaries, fired up with Viagra, mass-raping women and pillaging their cities - discredited stories which have been spread and amplitied by rebel commanders, NATO ministers, the media and ICC prosecutor Moreno Ocampo..."

Hoodeet

That is a valid question and challenge, if a very uncomfortable one.  Are we to start a citizens' campaign to bring charges against Bouchard et al.?  I mean, another campaign on top of:  tar sands, unethical CPP investments,  keeping the NDP from being a centrist-right party, shale gas, protection of water, saving the CBC,  fighting free trade agreements (now, CETA), setting stories from the MSM straight at every turn, etc. (forgive me if the list is incomplete - for a more complete list go to rabble topics)?

But to be fair, Erik Redburn, even if only relatively few people follow rabble, one would expect these readers to spread the word and share posts beyond this site.   I think that's what I get from NDPP.  Knowledge is, if not power, at least not-powerlessness.  So when they come for us we'll know why, I guess, unlike the unsuspecting innocents... 

NDPP

I already answered this question: 'Everything I can'. I hope others do as well. Putting out good information to replace the pro-war nonsense of our domestic MSM is certainly preparatory to citizen action. I suggest forwarding it as well to your MP and other war-supporters within reach. The MPS do as they're told but its important to let them know you're not buying their RP2 nonsense.

An excellent suggestion for this might be an Asia Times piece posted by Hoodeet to the Libya thread:

Why Gaddafi Got a Red Card  -  by Pepe Escobar

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MI01Ak02.html

or you could just do nothing, vote NDP and wait for them to 'transform NATO from within'

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20040530/ndp_nato_040529

 

 

NDPP

NATO Prepares Bloodbath in Sirte  -  by Bill Van Auken

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/sep2011/pers-s02.shtml

"The sheer contempt shown by [Canada,] the US and the European powers for legality and world public opinion is breathtaking. The pretense that NATO is acting under the terms of the UN resolution that provided a fig leaf for its intervention is more than absurd: it has become obscene.

One has to go back to the crimes of the fascist powers in the 1930s and 1940s to search for parallels to such a siege: the bombing of Guernica in the Spanish Civil War, the siege of Leningrad and the Warsaw Ghetto.

The crimninal methods eimployed by NATO and its 'rebel' proxies - the bombing of cities, attempted assassinations, massacres and the lynching of black sub-Saharan African immigrant workers - are in sync with the aim of the war: imperialist conquest."

Down with NATO warcriminals! Viva Libya!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5EpvO47CUE

Erik Redburn

Hoodeet wrote:

That is a valid question and challenge, if a very uncomfortable one.  Are we to start a citizens' campaign to bring charges against Bouchard et al.?  I mean, another campaign on top of:  tar sands, unethical CPP investments,  keeping the NDP from being a centrist-right party, shale gas, protection of water, saving the CBC,  fighting free trade agreements (now, CETA), setting stories from the MSM straight at every turn, etc. (forgive me if the list is incomplete - for a more complete list go to rabble topics)?

But to be fair, Erik Redburn, even if only relatively few people follow rabble, one would expect these readers to spread the word and share posts beyond this site.   I think that's what I get from NDPP.  Knowledge is, if not power, at least not-powerlessness.  So when they come for us we'll know why, I guess, unlike the unsuspecting innocents... 

 

Well, I post, paste and fwd all the time but I'm cautious about sources and the intended audience.   Re what to do I have lots of ideas now, as I think we may indeed be coming to the point of needing to lay charges and try and bring down some long established but thoroughly corrupted institutions.  However.   I also think its going to take a number of steps to achieve this, and its going to have to be done in just the right way, as the imminent fascism were now seeing isn't going to give any of us a second chance.  I think any legal challenges are going to have to begin on the domestic scene regading issues that effect fellow citizens directly. Theyre going to have to succeed on all levels, as the media will try to ignore and spin and the courts may not be dependable themselves, if we get close to the real sources of power here.  That's all I'm going to say on that here.   At least for now.

NDPP

My own preliminary investigations into this matter of laying charges against Bouchard under the Canadian Criminal Code, suggest that it is first necessary to obtain the consent of the Attorney General before the laying of any charges could proceed.

'NATO Eyeing Libya's Riches (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/nato-libya-oil/

"I think right now the commander, the NATO commanders, and also officials here in the US, must be held accountable for those violations of international law and criminal actions against the Libyan government' - US presidential candidate Stewart Alexander

'Doubtful NTC Can Fulfill its Promises (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/libya-un-gaddafi-intervention/

"It was clear from the outset that this mission, as executed, had very little to do with the Security Council authorizing resolution that several important countries abstained from because they were dubious about any use of force' said UN Special Rapporteur, Richard Falk.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

What Redburn has trouble wrapping his head around is the idea that the purpose and aim of calling for war crimes charges against Bouchard is not to secure a conviction (which of course will not happen), but to propagandize around Canada's criminal role in the assault on Libya and maybe change a few people's minds about supporting Harper's war agenda - a goal that is well within reach.

It's about raising people's political consciousness, not about playing lawyer.

NDPP

Yes of course - precisely. And not only won't there be a conviction, but as noted, the state won't even permit such charges to proceed, as near as I can tell. But potentially it could, as you appreciate, bring some very much needed attention to Canada's/ NATO's crimes in Libya.  More on this anon...

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