Racist hate crime: Church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina.

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lagatta
Racist hate crime: Church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina.

At least nine people have been killed in an attack on a historic Black church in the city of Charleston, South Carolina, in what police have described as a hate crime.

The suspect, who is still on the loose, has been described as a clean-shaved, white male aged approximately 21, with a small, slender build, wearing a grey sweatshirt with jeans and boots.

Gunfire erupted on Wednesday inside the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal church, whose pastor Clementa Pinckney, a Democratic member of the South Carolina Senate, was named as one of the dead.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/18/charleston-church-shootin...

Issues Pages: 
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Right wing propagandist media and readily available firearms claims more innocent lives.

The U.S. is a hopeless case and not to be offensive but at this point? Yawn (zzzzz)

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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Right wing propagandist media and readily available firearms

And heavy metal lyrics.

6079_Smith_W

Hey, if we can get all worked up about blackface, we should be able to devote a bit of time to murder, even murder allegedly committed by a quiet, softspoken young man.

Or perhaps you are right, the confederate flag is still flying at full mast at the South Carolina legislature:

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/18/8803661/charleston-sc-shooting-confederate-...

There is a long history of attacks on black churches:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/thugs-and-terrorists...

Quote:

Any one of us might die in a mass murder. But today, as the nation mourns the victims of Charleston and awaits details about the perpetrator of the attack, black Americans will be most awake to the reality that there are bigots who want to see them dead. What they’re owed by their fellow Americans is vocal solidarity, so that they’re as awake to the depth and breadth of the belief that black lives matter. 

 

Unionist

"Hate crime". The fascist authorities are incapable of using the word "terrorist". Because there's no such thing as a White Christian terrorist.

lagatta

Of course he's a terrorist, even if he is a "lone wolf" like the guys in St-Jean and Ottawa. He didn't murder those people because the choir was singing off-key. Even Anders Behring Breivik and Timothy McVeigh aren't always referred to as "terrorists".

6079_Smith_W

http://mic.com/articles/120937/why-charleston-church-shooting-was-act-of...

Quote:

Yet still, we hesitate to use the word "terrorism." In modern Western parlance, that term is used overwhelmingly to describe acts of violence committed by Muslims. It was used when the media reported on the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris and the Muhammad cartoon shooting in Garland, Texas, last month. But when a 21-year-old white man opens fire on a room full of black churchgoers, terrorism charges are not levied so readily by the public or the media.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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CNN reports Roof told another survivor that he "was letting her live so she could tell people what happened."

He evidently wanted her to warn others.  That does distinguish him from someone on a thrill-kill (e.g. Sandy Hook).

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But the killer's alleged statements to one survivor — "You rape our women and are taking over our country and you have to go,"

And a demand.  I think the term "terrorism" fits in this case.

NorthReport

So what is the Dad's role in this as he apparently gave his son a .45 revolver for his 21st birthday? 

This could have been prevented it seems if there were proper community channels in place. Some place where a neighbour could go to express concerns.

Dylann Roof, Charleston Suspect, Wore Symbols of White Supremacy

A neighbor, Debra Scott, 50, said that she had seen Mr. Roof walking to and from a nearby market but that she knew very little about him or anyone else who might live in his house. She described the house as “very quiet” and said Mr. Roof “seemed like a normal kid.”

But Ms. Scott, who is black, said she was “scared to death” after hearing news reports that Mr. Roof wanted to kill black people. “My concern is that he’s saying he’s out to kill black people,” she said. “We’re the closest ones to him.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/19/us/on-facebook-dylann-roof-charleston-...

6079_Smith_W

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/church-shooting-charleston-south...

Quote:

For those who know the institution and its history, what happened on Wednesday evening conjures a particularly bitter irony. The African Methodist Episcopal Church, founded in 1793, is the oldest denomination established by black people in the United States. It owes its origins to white discrimination against black Christians in the eighteenth century, and an incident in which black churchgoers were interrupted while worshipping and directed to the segregated section of an Episcopal church in Philadelphia. For black Christians, the word “sanctuary” had a second set of implications. The spiritual aims of worship were paired with the distinctly secular necessity of a place in which not just common faith but common humanity could be taken for granted.

Meanwhile on Fox news, they're targetting Christians:

http://jezebel.com/fox-news-and-lindsey-graham-lament-hate-crime-against...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
This could have been prevented it seems if there were proper community channels in place. Some place where a neighbour could go to express concerns.

To be fair, what specifically would filter out concerns about Roof from concerns about any "weird" kid?

When some grade 11 student's ENG101 essay is all about the streets flowing red with blood, and school officials step in, don't we usually accuse them of overreacting?

But this one time we could have targetted this like a laser scalpel, if only we cared?

NorthReport

Well his black neighbour apparently who had heard that he wanted to kill black people just might have been on to something, but maybe she just heard that after the fact.

 

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
This could have been prevented it seems if there were proper community channels in place. Some place where a neighbour could go to express concerns.

To be fair, what specifically would filter out concerns about Roof from concerns about any "weird" kid?

When some grade 11 student's ENG101 essay is all about the streets flowing red with blood, and school officials step in, don't we usually accuse them of overreacting?

But this one time we could have targetted this like a laser scalpel, if only we cared?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Should he be put to death like the Boston Bomber? Or will he be pampered and celebrated? America is such a sick society that I see Faux and the like opting for the latter.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Should he be put to death like the Boston Bomber? Or will he be pampered and celebrated?

TWO choices?

You spoil us.

NorthReport

USA needs gun control just like Canada does. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The US is truly a sick society.It's a symptom of unbridled capitalism and 24/7 right wing propaganda,then arm the populace to the teeth...Gee,I wonder what inevitably follows?

Take a good look at it,Canada. And get used to it.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
USA needs gun control just like Canada does.

Do you mean "just like Canada HAS"?

In Canada you can't legally just give someone a handgun as a gift, if you're not legally permitted to buy one and they're not legally permitted to own one.

NorthReport

Bingo!

That's why gun control somehow has to be addressed

alan smithee wrote:

The US is truly a sick society.It's a symptom of unbridled capitalism and 24/7 right wing propaganda,then arm the populace to the teeth...Gee,I wonder what inevitably follows?

Take a good look at it,Canada. And get used to it.

NorthReport

I do not see the need for anyone including the police to have weapons in urban areas unless required by police in an emergency situation.

And what is wrong with obtaining a licence for a hunting gun, if you must hunt until all our animals go extinct as well, like you do for fishing, driving, flying, etc. We screen drivers, pilots, so why are weapons off limits?

NorthReport

Once again it boils down to the rich vs the poor. When a system is too unfair, when the rich are too rich, and the poor too poor, the system breaks down.

So instread of addressing the inequalities, we build gated communities and live in fear of stepping outside them.

Charleston shooting: Five charts that show the ugly truth about hate crimes

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/charleston-shooting-fiv...

NorthReport

And Fox News and their ilk can also take a lot of the blame here for the violence by their constant angry and spiteful rhetoric. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I do not see the need for anyone including the police to have weapons in urban areas unless required by police in an emergency situation.

Do you believe that criminals with guns have those guns because some NON-CRIMINAL supported their need for them?

Quote:
And what is wrong with obtaining a licence for a hunting gun, if you must hunt until all our animals go extinct as well, like you do for fishing, driving, flying, etc. We screen drivers, pilots, so why are weapons off limits?

Are you really saying that I can just go to Canadian Tire and buy a gun the way I can buy a lawn sprinkler?  Nevermind that rabbits are in no danger of becoming extinct even if I could buy ten guns?

NorthReport

What's the advantage to abolishing Canada's long gun registry?  I don't see any - just more people walking around with guns who don't need them, and more hazardous work for the police

Or not having a functioning weapon registry in the USA? Ditto.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

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What's the advantage to abolishing Canada's long gun registry?

What would have been the advantage to keeping it, if this had happened here (with a handgun)?

How, specifically, wouild a long-gun registry in South Carolina have changed anything, in any way?

NorthReport

Let's just keep it simple.

Less cigarettes, less lung cancer

Less guns, less shootings

It's not rocket science.

There are lots of things we used to do before perhaps where weapons were needed tp provide food, protection from wild animals, etc. but hopefully we evolve and do things differently and better now. We are no longer as much of a rural society any more so we don't need to hunt and that's why Safeway was invented. 

 

Todrick of Chat...

NorthReport wrote:

We are no longer as much of a rural society any more so we don't need to hunt and that's why Safeway was invented. 

Maybe us simple rural folk dont want your urban way of living. Last time I check food from Safeway wasn't grown in the city.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:

Let's just keep it simple.

Less cigarettes, less lung cancer

Less guns, less shootings

It's not rocket science.

OK, but your point was about the long gun registry.  That would have changed this?  Please, share with us how.

Because this doesn't look all that different from suggesting that a dog and cat registry would prevent shark attacks.  Can you connect those dots reasonably?

NorthReport

I wasn't equating the long gun registry to this specific incident.

Just suggesting in theory at least that some kind of screening process is better than no process for all weapons. Guns are like a car, serious business

NorthReport

Lack of weapon control is a big problem in the USA? What's not to like about attempting to fix it? 

When will the US learn from Australia?

Stricter gun control laws save lives

This was not the first shooting massacre we had suffered, but it was the largest in living memory. The tragedy ignited an explosion of public outrage, soul-searching and demands for better regulation of guns. We changed our laws. As a result, gun deaths in Australia have dropped by two-thirds, and we have never had another mass shooting.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/14/america-mass-murder...

Unionist

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

We are no longer as much of a rural society any more so we don't need to hunt and that's why Safeway was invented. 

Maybe us simple rural folk dont want your urban way of living. Last time I check food from Safeway wasn't grown in the city.

What about Kellogg's Sugar Corn Pops? They used to be shot with sugar through and through.

 

Todrick of Chat...

Unionist wrote:

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

We are no longer as much of a rural society any more so we don't need to hunt and that's why Safeway was invented. 

Maybe us simple rural folk dont want your urban way of living. Last time I check food from Safeway wasn't grown in the city.

What about Kellogg's Sugar Corn Pops? They used to be shot with sugar through and through.

 

 

I am not sure about that. I am just a simple county-bumpkin, I will let you smart urban folk tell me what is proper.

 

NorthReport

I see.

So you use guns for planting and harvesting. Interesting approach to agriculture.

I don't care if you rural folk want to blow your brains out away from the city.

But us urbanites we are not too cool on that where we live. It is disturbing to us while we are doing our yoga sessions and after when we are having our lattes at our local organically grown coffee shops.

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

We are no longer as much of a rural society any more so we don't need to hunt and that's why Safeway was invented. 

Maybe us simple rural folk dont want your urban way of living. Last time I check food from Safeway wasn't grown in the city.

bekayne

http://jezebel.com/is-south-carolina-just-gonna-fly-that-confederate-fla...

South Carolina, a state that thoughtfully welcomes its 19 known hate groups by flying a Confederate flag over the statehouse, is facing a real quandary today. When a white man walks into a black church—a church that was targeted, surveilled and burned down 200 years ago in a period when black churches were prohibited from meeting without a white person present, and which has since served as a powerful site of resistance to a state that lynched black men asrecently as 1947—and is accepted by them in prayer before he opens fire and kills nine people, including a state senator: what are you gonna do with that damn Confederate flag?

takeitslowly

Smoking definitely is bad. I am not disputing that less smoking would lead to less lung cancer but...

 

I just want to say this thought my mother passed away from lung cancer and she never smoked.

 

A published paper in the Nature magazine ( dated 11 September 2014) stated that " In southeast Asia, half of all the women who develop lung cancer have never smoked. In fact, if lung cancer in never-smokers were considered a distinct disease, it would be the seventh leading cancer killer worldwide".

Todrick of Chat...

NorthReport wrote:

I see.

So you use guns for planting and harvesting. Interesting approach to agriculture.

I don't care if you rural folk want to blow your brains out away from the city.

But us urbanites we are not too cool on that where we live. It is disturbing to us while we are doing our yoga sessions and after when we are having our lattes at our local organically grown coffee shops.

Todrick of Chatsworth wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

We are no longer as much of a rural society any more so we don't need to hunt and that's why Safeway was invented. 

Maybe us simple rural folk dont want your urban way of living. Last time I check food from Safeway wasn't grown in the city.

I didn't realize Canadian cities produced so much local organically grown coffee. 

bekayne

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/18/3671649/nra-board-member-bla...

NRA board member Charles Cotton blamed Clementa Pinckney, a victim of the shooting at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, for his own death. He also blamed Pinckney, the pastor of Emanuel AME and a state senator, for the deaths of the other eight people killed.

As a state senator, Pinckney supported tougher gun regulations and opposed a bill that would have allowed people to carry concealed guns in churches. On TexasCHLForum.com, a message board, Cotton wrote that “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

 

NorthReport

Country life is amazin, isn't it - but only in BC! Laughing

Farmer misses his pig.

Photo: Thinkstock.com

A lawyer for a lifelong farmer says his client wants a couple of his animals back as pets after 51 of them were seized over concerns they were roaming around the neighbourhood.

Jay Michi said SPCA officials executed a warrant on a farm operated by Paul Sabyan, seizing 31 piglets, 18 sows, one boar and one bay stallion.

“They were concerned he’s too old to husband them at (age) 77," Michi said.

“He just wants his horse back and one pet pig."

Michi will apply for the two animals to be returned through an SPCA review process.

Marcie Moriarty, the agency’s chief prevention and enforcement officer, said a review is underway. If unsuccessful, Sabyan can file an appeal with the B.C. Farm Industry Review Board, and ultimately the courts.

Moriarty said the animals were seized on June 2 at Sabyan's farm in Barriere, near Kamloops.

“They met the definition of distress under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act," she said. "The vast majority have been surrendered.”

The animals were placed in foster care, she said.  Laughing

Sabyan pleaded guilty and was sentenced in March under the Livestock Act for allowing his animals to roam on neighbours’ property and a nearby highway.

During sentencing, a Crown lawyer outlined the frustration of neighbours and the danger to motorists from the pigs, which repeatedly escaped an enclosure and ranged in size from 90 to 400 kilograms.

Sabyan also pleaded guilty under the Motor Vehicle Act to allowing domestic animals on a highway.

Provincial court Judge Len Marchand called the matter “more than a nuisance.”

“There was significant damage to neighbours’ property and risks to motorists on the Yellowhead Highway," he said.

As part of his one-year probation term, Sabyan was required to provide proof of his fence repair and evidence of inspections.

Michi said Sabyan has complied with the court order and that the SPCA action is unrelated to his probation.

 

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-142500-48-.htm

 

bekayne
josh
Slumberjack

I like Neil MacDonald's suggestion of arming the pastors.  Gives a whole new meaning to being comforted by 'thy rod.'  Let them open carry right up there on the pulpit I say.  For sure people will think twice about stirring up shit, even giggling at the back of the church.  Logically though, when you have a nation founded on so much openly displayed hatred, it makes sense in that society for everyone to be armed, and for everyone to know that you are.  Open carry states are really just trying to get ahead of the curve when it comes to public safety innovations.

josh

“He voted against concealed-carry,” Cotton said of Pinckney. “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/nra-board-member-blames-charleston-shooting-deaths-on-pastors-vote-against-guns-in-churches/

Slumberjack

Quote:
“He voted against concealed-carry,” Cotton said of Pinckney. “Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

Eight is an optimistic number, but for sure some might have lived who are now dead.  It would all depend on how fast someone so armed in the unfolding melee could have pulled their own weapon, aimed and shot the intruder.  There is also no guarantee that a wild return of fire wouldn't create more casualties than it sought to avoid.  The shorter the barrel of the weapon, the greater the arc of fire that is created with only slight left or right aiming adjustments.  So a handgun in a panic shooting situation would pose quite a risk for everyone unless someone had nerves of steel and a steady hand.  On the other hand, homicidal shooters with intentions similar to this one might be further encouraged by the possibility of going out in a blaze of return gunfire if they knew everyone will most likely be pulling pistols and letting loose.

Unionist

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-governor-calls-death-penalty-church... Carolina governor calls for death penalty in church shooting case[/url]

Quote:
In an interview on NBC's "Today" show, Haley said, "This is a state hurt by the fact that nine people innocently were killed. We will absolutely want him to have the death penalty."

Of course, none of the media report, or recognize, the irony whereby the top government official displays the similar bloodthirsty anti-human instinct which may well have played a role in the murders. These same governments lynched people of colour not long ago, still treat them like a subhuman underclass, and consider firearms to be a greater necessity than food, shelter, and health care. And instead of wondering how their kids went wrong, they call for their execution.

I wish no ill to Governor Haley. Because I personally abhor capital punishment, I sincerely hope she enjoys a natural end.

 

NorthReport

The killer just walked into a store and bot the gun used in the killings. 

It is now way too long overdue - we have to ban guns, all guns, both in the USA and Canada. So you can't go hunting - fuck you. Australia enacted gun control and they have not had any massacres since.

Obama and Mulcair have to lead here and enact and/or propose legislation but we cannot continue to live like this any more.

And that Confederate flag needs to be burned to the ground wherever it is flying.

 

NorthReport

Maybe the Governor and the Mayor might want to consider resigning for having failed to protect the people they represent.

NorthReport

Dylann Storm Roof's friend took gun away during 'crazy' bigoted rant 2 weeks before Charleston church shooting

Mass-murdering racist Dylann Roof prepared for the deadly rampage at a black South Carolina church by honing his killing skills with a 21st birthday present from his father — a .45-caliber handgun.

A troubled portrait of Roof emerged as the shocked nation mourned nine people — ranging from 26 to 87 — gunned down because of their race at a prayer meeting.

In the aftermath of Wednesday night’s massacre at the historic Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, Roof’s own uncle called him “a monster.”

A friend, Joseph Meek, 20, told the Daily News he had taken the .45 Glock away from Roof two weeks ago after Roof went on a drunken, bigoted rant about segregation and killing people.

“He said he was planning for about six months to do something crazy,” said Meek, who is white. “He wanted it to be segregated. He wanted it to be white with the white, black with the black. All the races segregated.

“He wanted to do something big, like the Trayvon Martin case,” said Meek, referring to the unarmed black teen gunned down in 2012 in Florida by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman. “He was upset about it. It made him mad.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspected-charleston-church-sho...

NorthReport

Ya, right.

South Carolina newspaper apologizes for gun ad sticker on front page with church massacre story 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/s-paper-apologizes-gun-shop-ad-...

NorthReport

Why is the flag still flying?

A Confederate flag audaciously flies full-staff in South Carolina after the nine Charleston church murder

s

In South Carolina, the Confederate flag abides by its own rules and its location can be changed only by a two-thirds vote by both branches of the General Assembly

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/why-south-carolinas-confederate-...

bekayne

NorthReport wrote:

Why is the flag still flying?

A Confederate flag audaciously flies full-staff in South Carolina after the nine Charleston church murder

s

In South Carolina, the Confederate flag abides by its own rules and its location can be changed only by a two-thirds vote by both branches of the General Assembly

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/why-south-carolinas-confederate-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America...

As a result of these varying perceptions, there have been a number of political controversies surrounding the use of the Confederate battle flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events, at Southern universities, and on public buildings. In their study of Confederate symbols in the contemporary Southern United States, the Southern political scientists James Michael Martinez, William Donald Richardson, Ron McNinch-Su write:

The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election.[42]

Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:

It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: 'that the negro is not equal to the white man'. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?[43]

 

6079_Smith_W

Charleston and the Age of Obama

Nine people were shot dead in a church in Charleston. How is it possible, while reading about the alleged killer, Dylann Storm Roof, posing darkly in a picture on his Facebook page, the flags of racist Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa sewn to his jacket, not to think that we have witnessed a lynching?

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/charleston-and-the-age-of-ob...

voice of the damned

Unionist wrote:

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-governor-calls-death-penalty-church... Carolina governor calls for death penalty in church shooting case[/url]

Quote:
In an interview on NBC's "Today" show, Haley said, "This is a state hurt by the fact that nine people innocently were killed. We will absolutely want him to have the death penalty."

Of course, none of the media report, or recognize, the irony whereby the top government official displays the similar bloodthirsty anti-human instinct which may well have played a role in the murders. These same governments lynched people of colour not long ago, still treat them like a subhuman underclass, and consider firearms to be a greater necessity than food, shelter, and health care. And instead of wondering how their kids went wrong, they call for their execution.

I wish no ill to Governor Haley. Because I personally abhor capital punishment, I sincerely hope she enjoys a natural end.

 

Well, I'm trying to imagine what the response on babble would be if the governor had called for Dylann to be given something less draconian than a death sentence.

"Ha! In Amerika, the Boston Bomber gets death, but white Christian boys who gun down blacks get the kid-love treatment!!"

As for your argument that "these same governents used to lynch blacks", I'm not exactly sure what that's meant to imply. That governments shouldn't punish people for doing the same bad things that the governments themselves used to do? I guess since Canadian governments used to beat up on First Nations in the residential schools, we shouldn't punish racists who assault First Nations people now?

And, like you, I am also an opponent of the death penalty. But if it's an existing and active punishment in a given jurisdiction, I'm not really gonna complain much about it being applied to someone as allegedly deserving as Dylann Storm Roof.

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