Recall Newsom 2021

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Aristotleded24
Recall Newsom 2021

So a big story happening in the United States right now not receiving the attention it deserves is the recall election of California governor Gavin Newsom. It's very difficult to have a true sense of how things are playing out on the ground. California is a blue state, and there is a vocal Republican minority that struggles to accept that. It is clear that he has run the state into the ground, in particular because of ruinous lockdowns that destroyed the economy, closed schools, and failed to protect public health. The recall itself could not have achieved enough signatures to proceed without support from Democrats, progressives, and people on the left who were disssatisfied with Newsom.

So how will this thing go? Current polling suggests most people don't support recall. The other complication is that yes, people are leaving California, but it stands to reason that those who leave would be precisely those who would vote for the recall.

Caitlyn Jenner is running for the Republicans. This is very interesting. Could Jenner be the first transgender govenor in the United States? It's usually Democrats who champion LGBQT issues, how would Jenner's election as a Republican affect that dynamic. Jenner would still face a Democratic Senate and state house. Would she be able to govern effectively, or would she face obstructionism? If successful this year, could she be re-elected next year and would her coat-tails help elect more Republicans to the state house and senate?

I don't know how I feel about this, but if she's the one who can dismantle the Democratic power structure in that state, then that is enough for me.

Aristotleded24

California loses people for the first time in its history:

Quote:
California's population fell in 2020 for the first time since the state population estimates started being recorded due to Covid-19 deaths, a decline in immigration and a lower birth rate, according to the California Department of Finance.

Between January 2020 and January 2021, the state lost more than 182,000 residents, per population estimates and data released in a report by the department, bringing the total population to 39,466,855. That represents a 0.46% drop.

More than half of the decline -- a loss of about 100,000 residents -- was attributed to federal immigration restrictions, the report said, while deaths stemming from the Covid-19 pandemics accounted for the loss of about 51,000 residents, about 19% above the average death rate for the preceding three years.

California's population fell in 2020 for the first time since the state population estimates started being recorded due to Covid-19 deaths, a decline in immigration and a lower birth rate, according to the California Department of Finance.

Between January 2020 and January 2021, the state lost more than 182,000 residents, per population estimates and data released in a report by the department, bringing the total population to 39,466,855. That represents a 0.46% drop.

More than half of the decline -- a loss of about 100,000 residents -- was attributed to federal immigration restrictions, the report said, while deaths stemming from the Covid-19 pandemics accounted for the loss of about 51,000 residents, about 19% above the average death rate for the preceding three years.

I'm wondering if the drop in the birth rate has to do with California's lockdowns, as low birth rates are associated with lockdowns worldwide and California had one of the toughest in the United States.

Aristotleded24

California remains a dream destination every American wants to move to:

Quote:

New figures offered further evidence of a California exodus, showing an increasing number of people moved out of the Golden State in 2020.

Moving company U-Haul ranked California dead last on its list of state growth, giving it the distinction as the state with the steepest migration out. The study said that California ranked last by a wide margin, replacing Illinois which took the No. 50 spot the previous year. 

U-Haul conducted its analysis based on migration patterns, calculating the net gain of its one-way trucks entering a state versus leaving that state.

"People coming to California in one-way U-Haul trucks decreased by more than 12% year-over-year, while departures fell more than 10% from 2019," the company explained, adding, "Arrivals accounted for slightly more than 49.4% of all one-way U-Haul traffic during 2020, down from 49.8% the previous year."

JKR

During the last 50 years California's population doubled. California's population is a bit greater than all of Canada's. California has the largest population of U.S states.

NorthReport

California Dreamin' https://g.co/kgs/pk59wV

Ken Burch

Who would you replace him with, Aristotle?  In the U.S. there is no such thing as a political figure who is both humane and progressive AND an opponent of lockdowns, social distancing and vaccination- South of the border, every Covid denier is right-wing and always will be.  

There is also the small but real possibility that, if Newsom were to be recalled, he could be replaced by Caitlyn Jenner, a right-wing reality tv star and a transgender public figure who is implacably opposed to trans rights.

You can't seriously think SHE would be an improvement.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
Who would you replace him with, Aristotle?  In the U.S. there is no such thing as a political figure who is both humane and progressive AND an opponent of lockdowns, social distancing and vaccination- South of the border, every Covid denier is right-wing and always will be.  

There is also the small but real possibility that, if Newsom were to be recalled, he could be replaced by Caitlyn Jenner, a right-wing reality tv star and a transgender public figure who is implacably opposed to trans rights.

You can't seriously think SHE would be an improvement.

Any viable candidate not backed by the Democratic Party who can weaken the power of the Democratic Party machine in that state is good enough for me. We hear a great deal of talk on the left about third parties and the Movement for a People's Party. I can't think of a better opportunity for third-party organizing than for third parties to seriously back the recall campaign while trying to get their message out.

After the clear left-right divide on lockdowns throughout most of the industrialized world, the damage that lockdowns have done, the verifiable fact that states led by right-wing governments did better overall, massive expansion of state powers shrugged off by people who shouted "defund the police" last summer, and hearing that people who gather in church are superspreaders of covid but it's okay to gather in large crowds to shout anti-cop slogans, I'm tired of the progressive left assuming the moral high ground on issues of human rights, and I'm done with the idea that progressive politics is inherently humane.

JKR

Sounds like you've joined the non-progressive right.

josh

Sounds like a Trumper to me.  As for Covid, here's one of his right-wing states:
 

Noem's state now ranks eighth in deaths per capita, with four times as many deaths than similarly populated but tightly compacted San Francisco.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/south-dakota-kristi-noem-covid-1142068/

Aristotleded24

In any event, while a Republican candiate would have an uphill battle being elected to statewide office in California, a Trump-Republican would have no chance whatsoever. It would be interesting to see what kind of rebranding/communication effort would make a Republican candiate more palatable to California voters, especially former Democrats unhappy with Newsom's leadership. The other problem is that should the Republican candidate become governor, they would be faced with an obstructionist Senate and State Assembly that are both controlled by Democrats. The question is, are the anti-Newsom forces within California capable of the coalition-building that would be required to topple him?

Aristotleded24

Here's another governor who needs to be recalled yesterday:

Quote:
The Board of State Canvassers "correctly" approved the six recall petitions against Whitmer and one against Lt. Gov. Garlin Gilchrist, Judges Kathleen Jansen and Michael Gadola of the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled on Thursday, rejecting one argument made by counsel for the governor as "unpersuasive."

JKR

Are there any Republicans you want recalled or do you just hate Democrats? I guess you think states like Alabama and Mississippi are governed better than California?

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:
Are there any Republicans you want recalled or do you just hate Democrats? I guess you think states like Alabama and Mississippi are governed better than California?

Mississippi and Alabama right now are taking steps to ensure that your private medical decisions remain private and cannot be held over your head in order to restrict or deny access to any services or employment.

JKR

What do you think of the health care systems, education systems, social programs, justice systems, and labour laws in Republican "right-to-work" states like Alabama and Mississippi? What do you think of the racism, classism, and poverty rates in those kinds of states?

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

What do you think of the health care systems, education systems, social programs, justice systems, and labour laws in Republican "right-to-work" states like Alabama and Mississippi? What do you think of the racism, classism, and poverty rates in those kinds of states?

The only thing that matters is whether or not a jurisdictions COVID response was libertarian enough.

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:
What do you think of the health care systems, education systems, social programs, justice systems, and labour laws in Republican "right-to-work" states like Alabama and Mississippi? What do you think of the racism, classism, and poverty rates in those kinds of states?

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. Also when you look at the fact that the murders of George Foyd and Eric Garner took place in staunchly-blue states, (remember that it was a Democrat-controlled council that blocked attempts to defund the Minneapolis police department) the Democrats have a great deal to answer for in terms of racism as well.

The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that Republicans are more honest in their contempt for average people. If Democrats are so great for health care, why haven't New York, Michigan, or California rolled out single-payer health care systems with the urgency of the pandemic?

Educational systems? Red states kept their schools open, and it was the blue states where they were kept closed longer. How does that impact education?

There's a reason (besides voter ID laws) that voter turnout among ethnic minorities in the United States is abysmally low.

jerrym

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. Also when you look at the fact that the murders of George Foyd and Eric Garner took place in staunchly-blue states, (remember that it was a Democrat-controlled council that blocked attempts to defund the Minneapolis police department) the Democrats have a great deal to answer for in terms of racism as well.

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. Also when you look at the fact that the murders of George Foyd and Eric Garner took place in staunchly-blue states, (remember that it was a Democrat-controlled council that blocked attempts to defund the Minneapolis police department) the Democrats have a great deal to answer for in terms of racism as well.

The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that Republicans are more honest in their contempt for average people.

There's a reason (besides voter ID laws) that voter turnout among ethnic minorities in the United States is abysmally low.

I don't have any faith of a great awakening occurring amongst Democrats. But I know which is worse. As for honesty the Republican record is consistent: Trump won the election; their purging the election rolls to ensure their is no fraud; people of colour are the principal cause of voter fraud; the second amendent was created to allow armed rebellion if needed against the government and therefore guns must never be restricted in any way, at least with regards to white supremacists; you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, so therefore we need to eliminate all social programs created since FDR was president; climate change is not real; what is real and never denied by Trump, McCarthy or McConnell is the government and Hollywood elites eat children and need to be eliminated by having them sent to Guantanamo where they will be executed, which is Trump's real goal according to his followers including Republican members of Congress; and the assault on Congress on January 6th was actually a peaceful visit by tourists.

This is your version of honest? You prefer this to government officials who impose Covid lockdowns?

Aristotleded24

jerrym wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. Also when you look at the fact that the murders of George Foyd and Eric Garner took place in staunchly-blue states, (remember that it was a Democrat-controlled council that blocked attempts to defund the Minneapolis police department) the Democrats have a great deal to answer for in terms of racism as well.

There's a reason (besides voter ID laws) that voter turnout among ethnic minorities in the United States is abysmally low.

I don't have any faith of a great awakening occurring amongst Democrats. But I know which is worse. As for honesty the Republican record is consistent: Trump won the election; their purging the election rolls to ensure their is no fraud; people of colour are the principal cause of voter fraud; the second amendent was created to allow armed rebellion if needed against the government and therefore guns must never be restricte in any way, at least with regards to white supremacists; you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, so therefore we need to eliminate all social programs created since FDR was president; climate change is not real; what is real and never denied by Trump, McCarthy or McConnell is the government and Hollywood elites eat children and need to be eliminated by having them sent to Guantanamo where they will be executed, which is Trump's real goal; and the assault on Congress on January 6th was actually a peaceful visit by tourists.

This is your version of honest? You prefer this to government officials who impose Covid lockdowns?

While Republicans do have some crazy ideas, this looks to me like a caricature of Republican voters and Republican politicians that I am supposed to hate because I came out of the left tradition. People have all sorts of crazy ideas about those who don't share their same political beliefs and try to box people in based on their stereotypes. You can find all kinds of crazy things that Republicans like to say about people on the left that isn't true either. It's essentially an Orwellian Two Minutes Hate exercise designed to have regular people fighting with each other to distract them from the government malfesance that happens regardless of which party is elected, especially in the last 40-ish years with the ascendency and supremacy of neoliberal economics and politics.

Ken Burch

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:
Are there any Republicans you want recalled or do you just hate Democrats? I guess you think states like Alabama and Mississippi are governed better than California?

Mississippi and Alabama right now are taking steps to ensure that your private medical decisions remain private and cannot be held over your head in order to restrict or deny access to any services or employment.

IOTW, they are fighting for the rights of selfish jerks to expose other people to Covid.  That is the only reason anyone ever opposed masking, social distancing or vaccination.

The need to stop a pandemic that has now killed well over 620,000 people in North America far outweighs the arrogant, entitled right-wing vision of "individual rights" that you are effectively defending.

It's not about "individual rights" when Covid doesn't stop at the perimiters of your own body.

There is no such thing as a right to infect.

Repeat:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A RIGHT TO INFECT.

 

jerrym

Aristotleded24 wrote: 

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. 

The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that Republicans are more honest in their contempt for average people.

There's a reason (besides voter ID laws) that voter turnout among ethnic minorities in the United States is abysmally low.

Jerrym wrote:

I don't have any faith of a great awakening occurring amongst Democrats. But I know which is worse. As for honesty the Republican record is consistent: Trump won the election; their purging the election rolls to ensure their is no fraud; people of colour are the principal cause of voter fraud; the second amendent was created to allow armed rebellion if needed against the government and therefore guns must never be restricte in any way, at least with regards to white supremacists; you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, so therefore we need to eliminate all social programs created since FDR was president; climate change is not real; what is real and never denied by Trump, McCarthy or McConnell is the government and Hollywood elites eat children and need to be eliminated by having them sent to Guantanamo where they will be executed, which is Trump's real goal; and the assault on Congress on January 6th was actually a peaceful visit by tourists.

This is your version of honest? You prefer this to government officials who impose Covid lockdowns?

Aristotleded24 wrote:

While Republicans do have some crazy ideas, this looks to me like a caricature of Republican voters and Republican politicians that I am supposed to hate because I came out of the left tradition. People have all sorts of crazy ideas about those who don't share their same political beliefs and try to box people in based on their stereotypes. 

Jerrym wrote

This is not the Eisenhower Republican Party, not even the Reagan or Bush Republican party. The leadership fo Trump, McConnell and McCarthy and all but a few holdouts push these policies and actions whether they believe them or not, because they help keep them in power. Whether they are true believers or careerists doesn't matter, when it comes to the destructive impact they have on middle and working class people, to say nothing of the even greater impact they have on people of colour. In state houses they are passing legislation that would allow them to throw out elections even when they can't demonstrate fraud with absolutely no evidence. Since the states also control the national vote, this also applies to the country as a whole.  Any problems that arise from lockdowns are mild in comparison to where the Republicans intend to go. I don't plan to waste any more time dealing with your total state of denial of reality, which you use to invade thread after thread after thread. You simply deny any evidence to the contrary of your ironclad belief system on this or other threads. 

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

JKR wrote:
Are there any Republicans you want recalled or do you just hate Democrats? I guess you think states like Alabama and Mississippi are governed better than California?

Mississippi and Alabama right now are taking steps to ensure that your private medical decisions remain private and cannot be held over your head in order to restrict or deny access to any services or employment.

IOTW, they are fighting for the rights of selfish jerks to expose other people to Covid.  That is the only reason anyone ever opposed masking, social distancing or vaccination.

The need to stop a pandemic that has now killed well over 620,000 people in North America far outweighs the arrogant, entitled right-wing vision of "individual rights" that you are effectively defending.

It's not about "individual rights" when Covid doesn't stop at the perimiters of your own body.

There is no such thing as a right to infect.

Repeat:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A RIGHT TO INFECT.

Whatever Ken. After a year, the emprical data comparing states that did lockdown to those that didn't, on covid and all other metrics (economic, education), speaks for itself.

For millenia, elites have looked down upon peasants as dirty spreaders of disease. It is also one of the most handy tricks that demagogues and authoritarian governments resort to in order to demonize their target populations. The "right-to-infect" trope does more to enhance social divisions, stigmatize people with illness, and to separate society into the "clean virtuous" and the "disease spreaders" and acutally undermines public health and social solidarity.

JKR

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. Also when you look at the fact that the murders of George Foyd and Eric Garner took place in staunchly-blue states, (remember that it was a Democrat-controlled council that blocked attempts to defund the Minneapolis police department) the Democrats have a great deal to answer for in terms of racism as well.

The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that Republicans are more honest in their contempt for average people. If Democrats are so great for health care, why haven't New York, Michigan, or California rolled out single-payer health care systems with the urgency of the pandemic?

Educational systems? Red states kept their schools open, and it was the blue states where they were kept closed longer. How does that impact education?

There's a reason (besides voter ID laws) that voter turnout among ethnic minorities in the United States is abysmally low.

In general what sort of policies do you support in areas such as health care, education, social services, civil rights, the judicial system, housing, the environment, democratic rights, etc.... Which party's policies do you prefer, Republicans or Democrats? I think the Democrats policies are infinitely better than the Republicans. In general what political philosophy do you prefer? I consider myself a social Democrat and look to countries like Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland as examples of states headed in the right direction.

josh

Far-right Christian talk show host Rick Wiles has been hospitalized after contracting the novel coronavirus, less than a month after he said he would never get vaccinated.

Right Wing Watch reports that Wiles's TruNews website announced over the weekend that Wiles had come down with COVID-19 and was placed on oxygen while in the hospital.

Wiles last month told his audience that he was not getting vaccinated against the virus because he believed the vaccine was being used to commit a "genocide" that would wipe out hundreds of millions of people.

https://www.rawstory.com/rick-wiles-hospitalized/

robbie_dee

Looks like Newsom is going to beat the recall effort handily and may end up in an even stronger political position after doing so.

https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/05/28/republicans-1384576

Quote:

Democrats seem well aware of their sudden run of good political fortune. Newsom is on a fundraising binge, sounding the alarm to small donors every day while collecting big checks from the likes of Netflix co-CEO Reed Hastings, who gave $3 million last month. On Friday alone, Newsom’s campaign reported more big checks from key California donor groups: $300,000 from a Northern California labor union; $200,000 from Silicon Valley angel investor Ron Conway; and $40,000 from Paramount Pictures.

Steve Glazer, a state senator who advised former Gov. Jerry Brown for years, has begun lobbying to hold the recall election as soon as possible.

“Right now, Gavin Newsom has control over vaccine distribution and the budget ... so when you’re in a strong position to win the battle — then get in the battle," Glazer said.

Aristotleded24

JKR wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

Democrats pay lip service to those issues but generally do very little about it when elected. Also when you look at the fact that the murders of George Foyd and Eric Garner took place in staunchly-blue states, (remember that it was a Democrat-controlled council that blocked attempts to defund the Minneapolis police department) the Democrats have a great deal to answer for in terms of racism as well.

The main difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that Republicans are more honest in their contempt for average people. If Democrats are so great for health care, why haven't New York, Michigan, or California rolled out single-payer health care systems with the urgency of the pandemic?

Educational systems? Red states kept their schools open, and it was the blue states where they were kept closed longer. How does that impact education?

There's a reason (besides voter ID laws) that voter turnout among ethnic minorities in the United States is abysmally low.

In general what sort of policies do you support in areas such as health care, education, social services, civil rights, the judicial system, housing, the environment, democratic rights, etc.... Which party's policies do you prefer, Republicans or Democrats?

Neither. The Democrats and the Republicans are both in the back pockets of the same corporate interests that have been making life difficult for average people in the United States for decades. Furthermore, military adventurism and imperialism continue to flourish regardless of whether the federal government is controlled by Republicans or Democrats. It's a question of branding rather than substance.

If I'm walking on the street, and someone comes up to me and says, "I'm going to mug you, either by kicking you in the stomach or punching you in the mouth," which of those 2 options should I pick? That's how most people feel about all politicians these days.

Aristotleded24

Political winds shifting in Michigan?

Quote:
44 percent of respondents said they currently disapprove of the job the Democratic governor is doing, compared to 50 percent who said they approve of her job performance. That approval rating is eight percentage points lower than a similar survey taken in February. The recent Detroit Regional Chamber poll was conducted with 600 registered voters in May and had a margin of error of plus or minus four percentage points.

Not only did Whitmer's approval rating fall from 58 percent to 50 percent from February to May, but the rate of respondents that disapprove of the governor's job performance rose from 38 percent to 44 percent.

josh

California is one of only two states considered to have low levels of community coronavirus transmission, a designation that underscores its continued progress toward extinguishing the pandemic a week ahead of the planned reopening.

https://ktla.com/news/california/california-now-has-one-of-the-lowest-co...

 

Thank you Governor Newsom.

MegB

JKR wrote:

What do you think of the health care systems, education systems, social programs, justice systems, and labour laws in Republican "right-to-work" states like Alabama and Mississippi? What do you think of the racism, classism, and poverty rates in those kinds of states?

You can add the criminalization of women's reproductive rights to that list. Women are tired of re-fighting for their bodily autonomy - something men take for granted - decade after decade. There is nothing admirable in those states.

JKR

Yeah. Just looking at the issue of reproductive rights shows there is a world of difference between Democrats and Republicans.

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

Yeah. Just looking at the issue of reproductive rights shows there is a world of difference between Democrats and Republicans.

In Canada we have the Charter, in the US you have only the rights that politicans grant you. So you have the right to carry an uzi down manisteet but not to have control over ones reproductive health. In the US the Equal Rights Amendment can't even get passed. The problem is that all Americans have been brainwashed into believing their Constitution is the best document every written by humans and must be followed, when in fact it is an out of date instrument of control designed by slave owners and genocidal ethnic cleansers.

voice of the damned

Kropotkin:

The reason that Canada has no abortion law is because the Senate(via a coalition of pro- and anti-choicers) killed the restrictive abortion bill that Mulroney tried to get through parliaiment(it basically resurrected Trudeau's old abortion committees, but with doctors instead of panelists). Not because the SCOC ruled that there can never be another abortion law in Canada.

In fact, when the court struck down Trudeau's law in the 1980s, their decision explicitly stated that the government COULD pass another law, and have it tested by the courts. That that has not happened is because of the POLITICAL unwillingness to pass such legislation, not because the constitution makes it impossible.

(And up until a few years ago, abortion access in some maritime provinces was worse than in many US states, because politicians didn't care to fund clinics.)

And the fact that the US Constitution doesn't guarantee abortion-rights doesn't change the fact that Democrats, in general, are more likely to cast votes that are better for reproductive choice than Repuicans are. Including votes about who gets appointed to the courts.

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

JKR wrote:

Yeah. Just looking at the issue of reproductive rights shows there is a world of difference between Democrats and Republicans.

In Canada we have the Charter, in the US you have only the rights that politicans grant you. 

Except for such things as the right of speech, the press, due process, equal protection of the law . . . .

voice of the damned

josh wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

JKR wrote:

Yeah. Just looking at the issue of reproductive rights shows there is a world of difference between Democrats and Republicans.

In Canada we have the Charter, in the US you have only the rights that politicans grant you. 

Except for such things as the right of speech, the press, due process, equal protection of the law . . . .

The British journalists who helped Snowden publish his leaks stated in their book about him that they got WAY MORE harassment from the UK government than from the US, and that it was like night and day reporting in London vs. New York. They specifically attributed this to the protections of the First Amendment(though it would be more accurate to add "...as interpreted by some relatively recent court decisions").

The flip side of that was the reporters thought that the media culture of the UK, despite being more hamstrung by restrictions, was far more critical in its coverage of government actions than in the US. This they attributed partly to the more competive ownership structure of British media, reporters trying to beat each other to scoops and whatnot.

cco

Yeah, having lived in both countries, the idea that the Charter is an ironclad guarantee of rights while the American Bill of Rights is a flimsy useless bit of rhetoric is utterly unsupported by facts. If the casual disposal of section 6.1 (under the Oakes test, maybe, if it makes it to court before becoming moot) over the past year didn't demonstrate that, the forthcoming censorship bill will make it even more obvious. The thought of what Trump would've been able to do under the Canadian system is staggering.

NDPP

Biden's continuing attempts at extradition/prosecution of Julian Assange cast serious doubt on the continuity of 1st amendment protection for journalists who dare expose and publish on government criminality or war crimes.

kropotkin1951

voice of the damned wrote:
Kropotkin: The reason that Canada has no abortion law is because the Senate(via a coalition of pro- and anti-choicers) killed the restrictive abortion bill that Mulroney tried to get through parliaiment(it basically resurrected Trudeau's old abortion committees, but with doctors instead of panelists).

They did and everyone knew it would be immediately challenged and many on both sides of the issue were convinced that bill would not pass a Charter challenge.

voice of the damned

kropotkin1951 wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:
Kropotkin: The reason that Canada has no abortion law is because the Senate(via a coalition of pro- and anti-choicers) killed the restrictive abortion bill that Mulroney tried to get through parliaiment(it basically resurrected Trudeau's old abortion committees, but with doctors instead of panelists).

They did and everyone knew it would be immediately challenged and many on both sides of the issue were convinced that bill would not pass a Charter challenge.

 

Possibly that was true of Mulroney's law in particular, given that, as I say, it was basically an attempt at reviving the old committee system that had been struck down. 

However, it's not entirely clear to me that ANY restrictions would have been shut down, considering that the same judges who wrote the majority opinion also explicitly suggested that the government submit a new law. 

In the majority opinion, all of the judges decided that the federal authority must provide the required security of a fetus by integrating criminal law jurisdiction. However, none of the judges discussed the given length they would provide in regard to the protection of a fetus. Despite the final decision to abolish Canada’s abortion law, what many people failed to understand is that the Supreme Court of Canada did not acknowledge a legal right to abortion. Also, the Court failed to resolve this matter as is generally intended or demanded. Instead, the Supreme Court of Canada decided to hand over to Parliament the responsibility of creating and putting in place a new law concerning abortion. The purpose of the creation and establishment of this new law was to stabilize the importance of  women’s rights in regarding the security of an unborn child, while not antagonizing the nation’s Charter.

As the judges mentioned the security of the fetus in particular, I suspect they were hinting that they might be more open to a trimester approach, rather than an explain-your-story-to-some-bureaucrats approach, in deciding when the law should permit abortion. Of course, it's possible that a court today would be more liberal in their approach, but I don't know what evidence there would be either way.

https://tinyurl.com/en9dz5ve

 

 

 

kropotkin1951

I agree that our Charter system is deeply flawed. Not the least of which is the fact that it is unenforceable against our government. The indigenous groups who have been trying for twenty years to get the DFO to institute fisheries as dictated by the SCC know full well the meaning of the term justice delayed is justice denied.

The Not With Standing Clause was the NDP Premier's contribution to the Charter because Allan Blakeney's Scottish tradition said the King's courts could never be given the power to completely overrule a sovereign parliament.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Not With Standing Clause was the NDP Premier's contribution to the Charter because Allan Blakeney's Scottish tradition said the King's courts could never be given the power to completely overrule a sovereign parliament.

Interesting. I never knew that.

kropotkin1951

laine lowe wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Not With Standing Clause was the NDP Premier's contribution to the Charter because Allan Blakeney's Scottish tradition said the King's courts could never be given the power to completely overrule a sovereign parliament.

Interesting. I never knew that.

I had the privilege of taking a constitutional law, seminar course from him, when I was in law school.

kropotkin1951

laine lowe wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Not With Standing Clause was the NDP Premier's contribution to the Charter because Allan Blakeney's Scottish tradition said the King's courts could never be given the power to completely overrule a sovereign parliament.

Interesting. I never knew that.

He could see that Liberal and Conservative governments were likely to be appointing Judges forever so he did no trust them to serve the people's interests.

josh

 

A cashier in DeKalb County, Georgia was just trying to do her job and enforce a grocery store mask mandate, now she is dead. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution writes, “The shopper, identified as Victor Lee Tucker Jr., 30, of Palmetto, left the Big Bear supermarket after the argument but came back with a gun, according to the GBI. 

https://www.newsandguts.com/video/grocery-cashier-killed-deputy-injured-...

 

josh
josh

California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

The Golden State has no peers when it comes to expanding GDP, raising household income, investing in innovation and a host of other key metrics. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-14/california-defies-...