Russia 3

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NDPP

"...Today we're all expected to be freaking out about Russia again because Russia hacked the United States again right before a new president took office again, so now it's very important that we support new cold war escalations from both the outgoing president and the incoming president again. We're not allowed to see the evidence that this actually happened again, but it's of utmost importance that we trust and support new aggressions against Russia anyway. Again."

Secret, invisible evidence of Russian hacking is not actually evidence

https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/secret-invisible-evidence-of-rus...

JKR

Following Putin and state media's lead, many Russians dismissive of Navalny poisoning case; CBC News; December 18, 2020

Quote:

"Who needs him?" Putin said of political foe Alexei Navalny during a news conference, laughing as he dismissed news reports that members of Russia's federal security service, the FSB, specializing in nerve agents, followed Navalny during a trip to Siberia in August, where he was poisoned by the nerve agent Novichok and nearly died.

"If someone had wanted to poison him, they would have finished him off," said Putin, returning to the well-worn Kremlin talking point that Russia's secret services are too good to make such clumsy mistakes.

Putin denigrated Navalny as a nobody striving for political legitimacy, even providing a mocking imitation of his rival.

"Pay attention — it means I am a person of the same calibre [as Putin]," he said.

NDPP

German Government's Navalny Novichok Concocted for Parliament Dissolves into Lies

https://twitter.com/bears_with/status/1335895479234781184

"Liane Theuerkauf analyses the fine print of the German Government's report to the Bundestag of its allegations in the Navalny case.."

See also #675

josh

“The Cyber Hack is far greater in the Fake News Media than in actuality. I have been fully briefed and everything is well under control,” Trump tweeted. He also claimed the media are “petrified” of “discussing the possibility that it may be China (it may!).”

There is no evidence to suggest that is the case. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said late Friday that Russia was “pretty clearly” behind the cyberattack against the United States.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/donald-trump-russia-cyberattack

melovesproles

I'd be alright if the US did more cyberhacking if it meant they bombed fewer civillians overseas. Maybe they could cut their grotesque military budget and buy better computers for the public sector.

kropotkin1951

On the other hand the NSA has never hacked into any sovereign nation's political parties. Clearly in comparison to the Boy Scouts the Russians are truly evil in their computer spy games.

melovesproles

kropotkin1951 wrote:

On the other hand the NSA has never hacked into any sovereign nation's political parties. Clearly in comparison to the Boy Scouts the Russians are truly evil in their computer spy games.

Oh of course not. Targeted ssasinations, coups and bombing campaigns are totally legitimate tactics, but using computers, the scoundrels!

The Democratic Party and the War Machine – Vijay Prashad

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

On the other hand the NSA has never hacked into any sovereign nation's political parties. Clearly in comparison to the Boy Scouts the Russians are truly evil in their computer spy games.

No question.  U.S. administrations have done tons of evil shit over the years,  But not the issue here.  Russia and its defenders continue to deny it, and that Russia hacked the DNC.  

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

On the other hand the NSA has never hacked into any sovereign nation's political parties. Clearly in comparison to the Boy Scouts the Russians are truly evil in their computer spy games.

No question.  U.S. administrations have done tons of evil shit over the years,  But not the issue here.  Russia and its defenders continue to deny it, and that Russia hacked the DNC.  

Why is that such a big issue in a world where every major government is involved in spying on its neighbours. You and I live under the watchful gaze of the FiveEyes and I am sure they spy on all our Canadian political parties. It is just more more distraction from the imperial masters to suck people into thinking they are on the side of progress when they are merely parroting the word of the propaganda spin doctors employed by billionaires.

Guess what spies always deny their covert operations so what the fuck do you expect the Russians to be doing?

NDPP

Helmer: The Hype of the Hack

https://twitter.com/bears_with/status/1340932505835347968

"If true, the US cyber-war is doomed to fail. If false, the outcome is the same..."

kropotkin1951

NDPP wrote:

Helmer: The Hype of the Hack

https://twitter.com/bears_with/status/1340932505835347968

"If true, the US cyber-war is doomed to fail. If false, the outcome is the same..."

Good joke.

melovesproles

Guess what spies always deny their covert operations so what the fuck do you expect the Russians to be doing?

Bend the knee and promise Uncle Sam never to behave badly again?

That seems like an achievable goal progressives in the West should be supporting.. Once we get Russia in line we can look at our own governments.

JKR
JKR
JKR
Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

JKR wrote:

Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny releases call with security agent who admits role in poisoning plot

This is behind a paywall, so I can't read it without subscribing to the Globe, which I do not intend to do. So, to anyone who has read it, does the article say how it was authenticated that the voice making the damaging admissions was actually a Russian intelligence operative?

NDPP

'CNN Exclusive: A Russian officer is duped into telling Alexey Navalny how he was poisoned through his underpants.'

https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/1341125779879583748

"The latest phone prank fable out of the CIA's literal preferred fringe far right figure to rule Russia for them would have you believe [and they will!] that Putin novichoked Navalny's penis with magic underpants. Seriously."

JKR
NDPP

A standard feature for heads of state the world over. Do you think Stephen Harper or the Parliament that unanimously approved NATO's destruction of Libya and the murder of its leader will ever stand trial over it?

NDPP

re Navalny novichok nonsense...

The Hoax Call

https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2020/12/23/the-hoax-call/

"The hoax is audacious..."

JKR

NDPP wrote:

A standard feature for heads of state the world over. Do you think Stephen Harper or the Parliament that unanimously approved NATO's destruction of Libya and the murder of its leader will ever stand trial over it?

Harper and his family don't have special legal status. Harper served only 9 years. Putin has arranged to be "leader for life."

JKR

NDPP wrote:

re Navalny novichok nonsense...

The Hoax Call

https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2020/12/23/the-hoax-call/

"The hoax is audacious..."

Like it or not, Putin attempted to assassinate Novolny Novichok. 

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

re Navalny novichok nonsense...

The Hoax Call

https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2020/12/23/the-hoax-call/

"The hoax is audacious..."

Like it or not, Putin attempted to assassinate Novolny Novichok. 

Really so please tell us who that is. Strange name is all I have to say. A misspelled first name and the name of a poison for a last name. Did Putin try to shoot him personally or did he order a drone strike or what?

JKR

kropotkin1951 wrote:

JKR wrote:

NDPP wrote:

re Navalny novichok nonsense...

The Hoax Call

https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2020/12/23/the-hoax-call/

"The hoax is audacious..."

Like it or not, Putin attempted to assassinate Novolny Novichok. 

Really so please tell us who that is. Strange name is all I have to say. A misspelled first name and the name of a poison for a last name. Did Putin try to shoot him personally or did he order a drone strike or what?

I misquoted. His name was Alexei Navalny. It very much looks like Putin unsuccessfully tried to assassinate him.

Badriya

Michael Moriarity wrote:

JKR wrote:

Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny releases call with security agent who admits role in poisoning plot

This is behind a paywall, so I can't read it without subscribing to the Globe, which I do not intend to do. So, to anyone who has read it, does the article say how it was authenticated that the voice making the damaging admissions was actually a Russian intelligence operative?

Here are the segments that might be pertinent to your questions.  I used ellipses to indicate where there were breaks in the article.

The result is an astonishing video that the Russian opposition leader posted online Monday. In it, he calls up a man identified as part of an FSB team that has been accused of tracking Mr. Navalny for years – and of attempting to poison him in August with the chemical agent Novichok.

In the recording, Mr. Navalny identifies himself as an assistant of Nikolai Patrushev, the head of Russia’s Security Council and a former FSB boss. Explaining that he is writing a report on the failed assassination attempt, Mr. Navalny dupes the man into admitting his own role, as well as analyzing why it did not succeed.

Over the course of a 49-minute phone call – which was recorded by Mr. Navalny’s team – a man identified as Konstantin Kudryavtsev implicates several other FSB agents and says the operation “would have all gone differently” if the pilot hadn’t made the emergency landing in Tomsk.

If [the plane] had flown a little longer and they hadn’t landed it abruptly somehow and so on, maybe it all would have gone differently,” the avowed assassin continues in the video, which was viewed more than three million times on YouTube in the first four hours after it was posted.

Over the course of his phone conversation with Mr. Navalny, Mr. Kudryavtsev is defensive of the work done by the FSB team, despite the failure of the operation. “In our profession, you know this yourself, there are a lot of unknowns and nuances,” he tells Mr. Navalny. “We are trying to take everything into account so there will be no mistakes. You understand me, right?”

NDPP

Berlin Doctors' Report on Navalny Case Reveals New Evidence, Raises New Questions

http://johnhelmer.net/berlin-doctors-report-on-navalny-case-reveals-new-...

"...The German medical report flatly contradicts recent allegations by Navalny."

 

'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Badriya wrote:

Here are the segments that might be pertinent to your questions.  I used ellipses to indicate where there were breaks in the article.<snip>

Thanks for the info. As far as I can see, the only way we know that the person in the video is a Russian agent is that he and Navalny say so. Am I correct in that? So, it could be an actor, or a member of some western intelligence agency as far as the information provided shows?

NDPP

Ray McGovern Discusses the RussiaRussiaRussia-HackHackHack Pandemic (and vid)

https://raymcgovern.com/2020/12/23/ray-discusses-the-russiarussiarussia-...

"Still no evidence..."

Badriya

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Badriya wrote:

Here are the segments that might be pertinent to your questions.  I used ellipses to indicate where there were breaks in the article.<snip>

Thanks for the info. As far as I can see, the only way we know that the person in the video is a Russian agent is that he and Navalny say so. Am I correct in that? So, it could be an actor, or a member of some western intelligence agency as far as the information provided shows?

That was my interpretation also.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

'Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.' Voltaire

Putin understands this very well.

JKR

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Badriya wrote:

Here are the segments that might be pertinent to your questions.  I used ellipses to indicate where there were breaks in the article.<snip>

Thanks for the info. As far as I can see, the only way we know that the person in the video is a Russian agent is that he and Navalny say so. Am I correct in that? So, it could be an actor, or a member of some western intelligence agency as far as the information provided shows?

Did Navalny poison himself to make Putin look bad?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

JKR wrote:

Did Navalny poison himself to make Putin look bad?

Well, I have been skeptical of the whole affair from the beginning. If you dig back, you may find my posts at the time of this event. I don't care enough to search for them. But my point was that Navalny is a nobody, and not even a tiny threat to Putin. There is no upside for Putin in doing something like this. Why don't you tell me how Putin wins by poisoning Navalny? I have no idea what actually happened, but I would be more suspicious of western spooks than Russian ones in this case. They are all amoral monsters.

melovesproles

The timing of it with the pressure the US was putting on Europe to not go through with Nordstream 2 was a little suspicious too.

I agree with Michael. I don't see how anyone who doesn't have some connections with the secret services of the US, Canada, UK or Russia can claim to know with any certainty what is going on here.

If we want to know these kinds of things we should be putting pressure on making these agencies in our countries more transparent and accountable as well as supporting the protection of whistleblowers and journalists like Snowden and Assange. What does holding Russia to a different standard than our own spy agencies accomplish? That kind of hypochrisy doesn't do anything to help those who might be working for transparency and democracy in Russia so what is the desired goal of the Russia-bashers here? Is it just to get a l'et's not-think-too-hard-about-it' feeling of smugness?

JKR

Michael Moriarity wrote:

JKR wrote:

Did Navalny poison himself to make Putin look bad?

Well, I have been skeptical of the whole affair from the beginning. If you dig back, you may find my posts at the time of this event. I don't care enough to search for them. But my point was that Navalny is a nobody, and not even a tiny threat to Putin. There is no upside for Putin in doing something like this. Why don't you tell me how Putin wins by poisoning Navalny? I have no idea what actually happened, but I would be more suspicious of western spooks than Russian ones in this case. They are all amoral monsters.

Didn't this assassination attempt take place in Russia? Wouldn't it be difficult for western spooks to do this in Russia?

JKR

melovesproles wrote:

The timing of it with the pressure the US was putting on Europe to not go through with Nordstream 2 was a little suspicious too.

I agree with Michael. I don't see how anyone who doesn't have some connections with the secret services of the US, Canada, UK or Russia can claim to know with any certainty what is going on here.

If we want to know these kinds of things we should be putting pressure on making these agencies in our countries more transparent and accountable as well as supporting the protection of whistleblowers and journalists like Snowden and Assange. What does holding Russia to a different standard than our own spy agencies accomplish? That kind of hypochrisy doesn't do anything to help those who might be working for transparency and democracy in Russia so what is the desired goal of the Russia-bashers here? Is it just to get a l'et's not-think-too-hard-about-it' feeling of smugness?

People who are working for transparency and democracy in Russia are fighting a losing battle against Putin. Putin has made himself Russian leader for life.

melovesproles

People who are working for transparency and democracy in Russia are fighting a losing battle

Not just in Russia. Why not focus on the battle in Western countries? Solidarity is a lot more meaningful when it isn't rooted in hypochrisy.

Putin has only been empowered by US belligerence. And you didn't acknowledge my point about Nordstream 2. The US/UK has motive to worsen relations between Europe and Russia. For all the 'Putin is Trump's boss' BS, there has been crickets from the MSM on Nordstream 2 but astute observers of geopolitics have noted its significance and how hard the US has been trying to scuttle it. Of course that doesn't fit into the conspiracy theory that American interests have been subservient to Russian ones in recent years. It isn't just MAGA types that have been wearing tin foil hats.

JKR

Most Germans support Nordstream 2 and most Germans also think Putin poisoned Navalny. Most Western democracies have much higher levels of democracy and transparency than Putin's Russia. Countries like Finland, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, and Canada are among the countries with the highest levels of democracy in the world. The U.S. does have serious problems with democracy as can be currently seen. Putin seems to like the idea that the U.S. and Russia should be similarly weak when it comes to democracy. Trump looks to Russia as an example when he dreams of becoming U.S. president for life.

NDPP

Mass Media Propaganda is Enemy #1

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1343031967877492736

"The ability of the plutocratic class to manipulate public thought at mass scale is the single most over looked and under appreciated aspect of our society.

JKR

Russia’s ultimatum to Navalny: Return immediately or face jail; Al Jazeera; 28 December 2020

Quote:

Russia’s prison service has given Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny a last-minute ultimatum: fly back from Germany at once and report at a Moscow office early on Tuesday morning, or be jailed if you return after that deadline.

Navalny, one of President Vladimir Putin’s leading critics, was airlifted to Germany for treatment in August after collapsing on a plane in what Germany and other Western nations say was an attempt to murder him with a Novichok nerve agent.

JKR
kropotkin1951

He is serving a suspended sentence. In Canada going abroad is a breach of a suspended sentence, how about in the US? Of course any one reading the US press as a main source of "news" might actually believe that Navalny's theft conviction was just politically motivated because Russia hasn't got a functioning legal system only cronyism completely controlled by one man. He couldn't just be a loud mouthed, third rate politician who spewed venom at officials and got targeted for the kinds of theft that lots of people get away with, could he?

JKR

Did he poison himself?

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

Did he poison himself?

Damned if I know anymore than you do. I just don't swallow US propaganda, on face value, like some people do. For all I know he could have been on the the assassination list that is vetted every week in the Oval Office. You know the one Obama started to decide who to murder without trial based on the word of spooks, with no recourse for the accused to refute the evidence.

JKR

Russia menaces Alexei Navalny after he exposed its agents' ineptitude; The Economist

Quote:

Stay abroad or rot in jail. That was the choice Vladimir Putin offered this week to Alexei Navalny, the opposition politician currently in Germany recovering from an attempt by Russian security agents to assassinate him last August. The new threat was delivered by Russia’s federal prison agency, which accused Mr Navalny of violating a probation period imposed as part of a trumped-up embezzlement conviction in 2014. It was an obvious sham: the probation period expired on December 30th, but on December 28th Mr Navalny was ordered to attend a parole hearing in Moscow at 9am the following morning, or trigger a suspended sentence of three and a half years.

The following day, Russian authorities launched a new and larger embezzlement case against Mr Navalny. He remained unfazed. “Putin desperately does not want me to return to Russia,” he told The Economist. “I am planning to do what I always said I would do: come back."

melovesproles

JKR wrote:

Russia menaces Alexei Navalny after he exposed its agents' ineptitude; The Economist

Quote:

Stay abroad or rot in jail. That was the choice Vladimir Putin offered this week to Alexei Navalny, the opposition politician currently in Germany recovering from an attempt by Russian security agents to assassinate him last August. The new threat was delivered by Russia’s federal prison agency, which accused Mr Navalny of violating a probation period imposed as part of a trumped-up embezzlement conviction in 2014. It was an obvious sham: the probation period expired on December 30th, but on December 28th Mr Navalny was ordered to attend a parole hearing in Moscow at 9am the following morning, or trigger a suspended sentence of three and a half years.

The following day, Russian authorities launched a new and larger embezzlement case against Mr Navalny. He remained unfazed. “Putin desperately does not want me to return to Russia,” he told The Economist. “I am planning to do what I always said I would do: come back."

Did you find the Economist a good source of reliable analysis on the propaganda put forward in the lead-up to the Iraq war?

The war in Iraq
The case for war—revisited

Why we still think, on present information and trends, that the war was justified

I followed the lead-up to the Iraq war very closely. The Economist supported US/UK lies. Why are you so sure they are not lying now? 

JKR

Very many other sources are also reporting this. Countries like Germany are also stating this. How are you so sure Putin isn't lying?

melovesproles

JKR wrote:

Very many other sources are also reporting this. Countries like Germany are also stating this. How are you so sure Putin isn't lying?

I'm absolutely not sure. I would love to live in a world with that kind of transparency and wish I could trust the government and mainstream media not to peddle lies.

But they did during the Iraq war, it was obvious what they were doing, and there was absolutely no consequences for the liars or their organizations.

The only reason we know the Canadian government's true position on the Iraq war is Wikileaks. I don't consider Canada a completely independent country and our parent countries just had a showtrial to condemn the person responsible for us knowing that. Many legal experts say this sets a very dangerous precedent for jounalists globally. Top Ten Transparent and Democratic country of 2020, Canada has said nothing.. We also have a federal police force which has some major issues with transparency despite extremely disturbing behaviour popping up again and again.

If someone had never been to Canada and only heard the negatives, they would have a pretty distorted view of the country and the people who lived here. Luckily, we have context and know that isn't the whole story. 

melovesproles

I can't believe the Economist, who lied unrepentedly to help start a regional war and massive refugee crisis can be quoted as a reliable source for why we should not consider that there might be more to see here. The amnesia is incredible. 

NDPP

LMAO...

https://twitter.com/AlanRMacleod/status/1344644392586457089

"US intelligence are like that kid who tries to do the 'pull my finger' trick on the whole school..."

josh

Leading Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny departed from Germany on Sunday to return to Russia, where he faces the threat of arrest, after recovering from his poisoning in August with a nerve agent.

https://apnews.com/article/moscow-russia-vladimir-putin-berlin-germany-7...

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