Syria #6

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kropotkin1951

Fidel wrote:

The NDP should probably go with the flow until next election instead of chowing down on the colder war baloney. Who wants to challenge the propaganda machine? Bad move imo. This is FPTP, and, yes, it's dirty. Oh so dirty. No points will be awarded for pursuit of truth in this one.

Well said Fidel.  A perfect description of the NDP, spineless in the face of the MSM.  Societal change comes from citizens discussing issues and politicians enacting the citizens will. The MSM is dedicated to stifling any debate on the real issues.  The MSM's elite probably loves the idea that the elected politicians don't even dare raise issues because they stand in fear, trembling at the thought of risking the medias wrath.

Fidel maybe you missed the memo.  It doesn't matter what platform the NDP runs on they will be the subject of an all out filthy and negative disinformation campaign from all the MSM outlets.  IMO given that reality they might as well have the discussions on all the major issues because the MSM will damn them if they do and damn if they don't.

CDN_FORCES

The Saudis and Emirates (for example) say they're religiously conservative but they're not. I've spent a lot of time in the UAE and Qatar. Open displays of sexuality, drunkeness, and immorality are cruelly punished, but behind closed doors anything goes for anyone. The truly fortunate can always jet away to Europe for fun and games.

The only truly religious, extreme far right government that has ever existed in the area is Afghanistan under the Taliban. The Taliban were true believers, and in that sense not too far removed from certain individual US politicians. It would be a stretch though to claim that the US government is anywhere near to the Taliban. There are hundreds of examples of right wing politicians who claim to be nearer to God than anyone else who nevertheless get caught in sex scandals (wide stance, anyone?).

The point all that is that governments choose allies on the needs of the day, not religious compatibility. When the needs change they get a bus any throw their former "friends" under it. I don't see any big conspiracy in that approach to international relations.

Fidel

CDN_FORCES wrote:
The only truly religious, extreme far right government that has ever existed in the area is Afghanistan under the Taliban

And the Taliban were proxies for the US from 1996 to 2001. In 1992 Tajiki warlord Ahmed Shah Massoud declared war on the Taliban. The US ambassador to Kabul advised Massoud to simply surrrender to the Taliban. Massoud's US funding was promptly cut off. 

It's said that the recipient of the largest dollar amount of US aid in the 1980s was warlord and drug baron Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. Hekmatyar became infamous for throwing acid in the faces of female university students in the 1980s. They chose to back ruthless mofos like Hekmatyard and Rabanni partly because those warlords actually have/had little support among ordinary Afghans. Without US funding they knew they were nothing and held no power over anyone. They were controlled more easily by Washington and Langley and by Saudi princes. And then the first doublecross in Pakistan occurred, only it wasn't the ISI crossing their CIA partners but the other way around when after 1989 the CIA began funding the most vicious warlords directly. NATO turned their backs on the carnage that ensued.

CDN_FORCES wrote:
The point all that is that governments choose allies on the needs of the day, not religious compatibility. When the needs change they get a bus any throw their former "friends" under it. I don't see any big conspiracy in that approach to international relations.
 

The whole point of the proxy war in Afghanistan for the west, their Saudis friends and Pakistani elite was to extirpate secular socialist thought from the region. Military dictator General Zia basically transformed Pakistan into a lawless militia state used as a staging country to launch attacks against the PDPA governnment in Kabul, Jalalabad etc. The Talibanization of Pakistan and Afghanistan since the latter half of the 1980s was deliberate and methodical according to Tariq Ali, Khalid Ahmed, British and Pakistani journalists who've written extensively on that part of Central Asia's recent history.

 

NDPP

Syria Now in State of Civil War - UN (and vid)

http://www.rt.com/news/syria-civil-war-un-669/

"Following 15 months of violence the Syrian conflict has now been described as a 'civl war' by the UN peacekeeping chief. Coming as it does amid repeated attacks on UN observers the statment may endanger the whole peace plan in Syria..."

 

Russia Will Confront Any US-Led Attack on Syria: Analyst (and vid)

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/06/13/246066/powers-on-verge-of-conflict-...

"Israel is apparently laying the groundwork for a possible military attack on Syria by alleging that Damascus could be using chemical weapons against the Syrian people. Interview with Webster Tarpley.

 

Some UN Monitors Spying in Syria

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/06/13/245983/some-un-monitors-spying-in-s...

"A Jordanian member of the UN Observer team in Syria says some of his teammates are carrying out spy missions collecting information about Syria's military..."

 

NDPP

The Language of War 

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/americas/language-war

"...It is also unlikely that other diplomats will define the conflict as a civil war because labelling the conflict as such has repercussions under international law. For one, the laws of war would apply to both the Syrian government and opposition fighters.."

Syria Accused of Organised Attacks (and vid)

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/blog/middle-east/syria-accused-organised-attacks

"Syria is commiting crimes against humanity.." Amnesty International

clearly AJ is again to play its accustomned role as chief cheerleader for the western warparty. (big hi to Tony Burman!)

NDPP

Harper Calls on Russia to End Opposition to UN Sanctions on Syria

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/harper-calls-on-russia-to-end-op...

"Prime Minister Stephen Harper urged Russia to stop blocking United Nations attempts to impose sanctions on the 'murderous' Syrian regime of Bashar Assad. 'We encourage Russia and others to join with us to apply binding sanctions against what is a murderous regime,' Harper said, calling the Syrian situation unacceptable to Canadians and the international community. Harper spoke in response to a question by NDP Leader Tom Mulcair, who asked the Prime Minister specifically about diplomatic attempts to sway Russia. 'We have all witnessed the horror in Syria with the Assad regime, where innocent children are now being targeted,' Mulcair said..."

'murderous regime, innocent children now being targeted'...

 

 

Hillary's Little Startup: How the US is Using Technology to Aid Syria's Rebels

http://world.time.com/2012/06/13/hillarys-little-startup-how-the-u-s-is-...

"..As US officials have revealed to TIME, the Obama administration has been providing media-technology, training and support to Syrian dissidents by way of some small nonprofits like the Institute For War & Peace Reporting and Freedom House..."

'dissidents' by way of some'small nonprofits' lol!

CDN_FORCES

It's hard to sweep this sort of thing under the rug. Assad deserves a visit to the ICC.

 

U.N. Monitors Find Vast Devastation in Syrian Village

United Nations monitors in Syria reported fiery devastation, the smell of death, vacated homes, looted stores and vestiges of heavy weapons on Thursday during a visit to what had been a Sunni-populated village besieged for days by Syrian forces and pro-government militiamen who said they had cleansed it of rebel fighters.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/15/world/middleeast/monitors-report-vast-...

Unionist

CDN_FORCES wrote:

It's hard to sweep this sort of thing under the rug. Assad deserves a visit to the ICC.

 

All I read was a description of armed insurgents using civilian neighbourhoods as bases and civilians as human shields. Isn't that the way your bosses describe things when they're trying to demonize insurgents? Did you lose your speaking notes, or what?

 

CDN_FORCES

Unionist wrote:

CDN_FORCES wrote:

It's hard to sweep this sort of thing under the rug. Assad deserves a visit to the ICC.

 

All I read was a description of armed insurgents using civilian neighbourhoods as bases and civilians as human shields. Isn't that the way your bosses describe things when they're trying to demonize insurgents? Did you lose your speaking notes, or what?

 

 

Still the little thread stalker, aren't you? And why no denunciation of Assad? Hmmm? Oh, right...

NDPP

Syria: NATO Plans New Sykes-Picot, Middle East Chaos  - by MD Nalapat

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31586.htm

"...Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq by the US and Iraq's former colonial master, the UK, NATO has been transparent in its desire to once again exercise direct control over the countries in the region. The few regimes that are opposed to NATO hegemony are being faced with a concerted effort to overthrow them.

After Iraq, it was the turn of Libya, followed by Syria. Next will be Iran. Unlike Libya, Syria is not in an isolated corner. An intensification of the NATO-sponsored civil war in that country, which is pitting Salafists and Wahabis against Shia, Druze, moderate Sunnis and Christian, would set off sectarian unrest in the entire region.

If this has not happened so far, the credit must go to Russia and China.."

Israel May Use Military Force 'To Secure' Syria's Alleged Chemical Arsenal

http://www.rt.com/news/israel-syria-chemical-weapons-803/

"Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shaul Mafoz believes the world should unite to crush Assad's regime, the same as it did in Libya, where coalition forces overthrew Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. 'A crime against humanity, genocide is being conducted in Syria today. And the silence of the world powers is contrary to all human logic,' Mofaz announced."

That quote's a keeper!

Fidel

[url=">http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/02/if-its-good-for-al-qaeda-can-it-b..."If Its Good For Al Qaeda, Can It Be Good For Us?"[/url] asks U.S. Politician

[url=U.S">http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/02/even-after-admitting-that-the-syr.... Confirms Syrian Bombings Were Carried Out By Al Qaeda "Opposition" ... But We're Still Fighting On Their Side[/url]

Al-Qa'eda is supporting the Syrian opposition.

So is the Muslim Brotherhood.

And Hamas.

"Al-Qa'eda" = Al-CIA'duh

And our vicious toadies in Ottawa just do as they are told by Warshington as usual. Same old Same old.

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Fidel maybe you missed the memo.  It doesn't matter what platform the NDP runs on they will be the subject of an all out filthy and negative disinformation campaign from all the MSM outlets.  IMO given that reality they might as well have the discussions on all the major issues because the MSM will damn them if they do and damn if they don't.
 

So you're saying the NDP should fall on their swords an side with the Russians and Syrians in the Middle East? Why? Do you like Harper that much? What can the NDP do about it anyway? 

 

NDPP

NOT VOTE UNANIMOUSLY FOR NATO WAR AS LAST TIME!!

Fidel

Okay I hope the NDP doesn't vote for WW III to get under way the Middle East, either. 

I hope the NDP is written up in the anals of history as having voted against the "battle of Armageddon."

Happy?

Prism, 1979 wrote:
Jerry and Linda in the whitehouse
President sleepin' in his shoes red phones ring in the blackout
Ain't got time to lose U-boats off New England
Enemy submarines from Boston to Miami
On a red alert, you better scramble all the F-15's

Armageddon carry me home
Armageddon carry me home

CDN_FORCES

This person has a truly horrible worldview.

Inside Syria’s shabiha death squads

LATTAKIA, SYRIA AND BEIRUT, LEBANON — As Syria descends into civil war, Abu Jaafar said he is ready to kill women and children to defend his friends, family and president.

“Sunni women are giving birth to babies who will fight us in years to come, so we have the right to fight anyone who can hurt us in the future,” said the Allawite militiaman, a member of the ancient offshoot of Shiite Islam to which Syrian President Bashar Assad and the powerbase of his regime belong.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1212059--inside-syria-s-shabih...

kropotkin1951

Yes and Iraqi soldiers threw babies out of incubators and  Libyan troops were given Viagra and then engaged in gang rape. Bahrain citizens need the steady hand of the Saudi troops do restore order.

Any other crap article you can share with us. I notice that the "reporters" are not even in Syria.  Like most of the Western media they sit in hotel rooms in other Middle East countries away from the action and rehash the spin they are fed by the multitude of foreign intelligence agencies actively working in the region.

This piece is a disgusting attempt at guilt by association.  All you need to know is which church someone prays at to condemn them as terrorists. This type of drivel is the standard fair in the lead up to NATO opening a new front in its ongoing thrust to rule the world.

NATO is the worlds largest and most murderous criminal organization.  It drops more bombs on civilians than all the "evil dictators" in the world combined.  How many wars does it take to make the world save for oil companies? I'll bet you have talking points to vilify all the other countries on the NATO list for future regime change. 

Pax Americana is a dictatorship of the 1%. The Exceptional Empire has lackeys in the military, police and security apparatus in countries all over the world. Paid killers for  the oligarchy that rules the world are what NATO troops are.  I don't understand people who kill for a living but many seem really good at self justification of their moral failings.  "Sure  I might be a murderous NATO soldier but the other guy is worse," leaves me cold since I have to foot the bill for the destruction that is wrought in the name of "democracy." 

 

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NATO is the worlds largest and most murderous criminal organization.  It drops more bombs on civilians than all the "evil dictators" in the world combined.  How many wars does it take to make the world save for oil companies?

 

Hardly. NATO has procedures to avoid bombing civilians, whereas certain countries make a point to do so in order to inflict collective punishment.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Hi CDN_FORCES, I'm reminding you that babble has an anti-imperialist mandate. Justifying killing civilians because the bomber promises to try really hard not to kill them falls rather outside its perimeter. For that matter, so does mocking people who "stay at home" rather than go kill people for freedom.

If you want to take NATO's side in this conflict, you need to find other rhetoric.

kropotkin1951

CDN_FORCES wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

NATO is the worlds largest and most murderous criminal organization.  It drops more bombs on civilians than all the "evil dictators" in the world combined.  How many wars does it take to make the world save for oil companies?

Hardly. NATO has procedures to avoid bombing civilians, whereas certain countries make a point to do so in order to inflict collective punishment.

Thank you for your justification for the bombings.  I knew you had it in you.

NATO's procedures? Do you mean like counting ALL males of military age as combatants?  Doesn't matter who they are any military aged male is not considered civilian by the NATO killing machine.  As well the policy is to not include as civilians anyone who was with the person targeted by NATO's killing machine.  If you are the wife or child of a freedom fighter you too are not a civilian when murdered.  That is indeed execution for the crime of guilt by association.  If your father is fighting an occupying enemy then you as a child are also guilty.  If you are a cousin or brother and you go to a wedding and a targeted person is also attended then you too are not a civilian.

Yup great procedures to obfuscate.  Just call everyone you kill an enemy and voila almost no civilian causalities.

 

CDN_FORCES

No one justified killing civilians, except the Alawi guy in the Star story.

Fidel

Not all of their procedures are widely publicized for sure.

[url=[/url]">http://worldcrunch.com/bombed-libyan-village-where-natos-collateral-dama...

Our corrupt stoogeaucracies can't afford full blown military occupations Vietnam-style anymore. The future of fascism is with blitzkriegs and robotic warfare/terrorism.

kropotkin1951

CDN_FORCES wrote:

No one justified killing civilians, except the Alawi guy in the Star story.

Don't trust those Alawi is your not to subtle message and it a disgusting one.  Dehumanizing the "enemy" is the first priority of any propaganda spewed out on behalf of an empire about to inflict more pain and suffering on millions of people. Again as in all the recent NATO invasions and incursions into other nation's sovereign affairs the reason is to protect the people from themselves. The Syrian government has been a brutal dictatorship and some of the people in the streets are democracy seekers.  However those people are vastly out numbered by thugs armed by NATO countries and their allies like Saudi Arabia and Israel. 

Both the Libyan and Syrian dictators lost most of their usefulness to the NATO machine when NATO built its own gulags and are using their own torturers instead of out sourcing that task. I look at Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia and see broken countries where the people have no peace or security and that is certainly going to be the same thing in Syria if NATO gets its way.  How many Iraqi's would the Baathist's in Iraq have murdered in a decade. A few thousand a year at most seemed to be what they required to keep the country under their thumbs.  That outrageous body count though pales in comparison to the actual death and destruction inflicted on the population to "free" them.  Millions displaced, hundreds of thousands killed. The destruction of Fallujah and the ongoing health problems from the illegal and immoral ordinance used on a population trapped in a city as it was reduced to rubble.  All serious observers agree that there is sign of a secular democracy breaking out any time in the near future and the actual safety for civilians to live and work in peace is far worse than under the brutal dictator.  Under totalitarian governments  you only have to mind your tongue and keep your head down, you know like a recruit into the military.  In Iraq it is still the case that no one is really safe on the streets and gangs of thugs roam at will.

However it is worth noting that in those areas of the world the civilians may not have peace and security but the oil facilities are all well guarded and working just fine.  You may not want to risk your live in the streets of Tripoli unless you belong to a militia but the oil is flowing freely.

The Syrian people have more to fear from the evil empire with its unquenchable thirst for oil than from their own petty dictators.

 

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 

The Syrian people have more to fear from the evil empire with its unquenchable thirst for oil than from their own petty dictators.

 

 

Cute statement, but factually incorrect. I doubt that Mr Assad is looking after the interests of all the Syrian people. But don't take my word for it, just listen to the UN Observers who are in country witnessing some very horrible atrocities. In the interest of fairness, the Syrian Army is also suffering from attacks by the armed opposition, but from what's been published by the UN the Army is responsible for the vast majority of killings.

The comment about oil is always brought out. The reality is that if the US wanted Syria's oil they could just buy it. But they can't because of the sanctions imposed by the UN, and those sanctions were put in place after Assad decided to repress the "Arab Spring" using shells and bombs. But it would be a huge stretch to claim that any war against Syria (which won't happen by the way) would be about getting access to their oil. US oil production has climbed steadily over the past 5 years, and the ME now accounts for significantly less of their imports. It would be about stopping the killing of civilians. But like I said, there won't be a Libyian-style war in Syria, so Assad will probably get his way and just sell oil to China or on the black market.

 

kropotkin1951

Actually it is factually correct and I don't find anything about our evil empire's murderous behavior to be cute. 

I also doubt Assad is looking after the interests of all the people. Who the fuck said he was?  That's the best you got for a rationale debate? The UN reports are not neutral they are biased. I can imagine what would happen in the streets of Montreal if people started bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure. I am sure our police and military would not respond with excessive force. [sarcasm alert]

This is a civil war and the best that can be said for NATO is they are pouring gasoline on the blaze while screaming we saw the arsonist who lit this.

Fidel

CDN_FORCES wrote:

The comment about oil is always brought out. The reality is that if the US wanted Syria's oil they could just buy it.

They don't want Syria's oil so much as Iranian oil. 

The Gladio Gang and blood for oil hounds want Iran's oil. And Syria is Iran's only ally in the region.

Moreover, Murder Incorporated has coveted Russia's natural resource wealth and meddling in that country's affairs since turn of the last century. Basically whichever country denies corporate America's access to natural resource wealth and-or cheap labour, they are considered part of the evol empire of darkness or whatever.

NDPP

Pentagon Finishes Contingency Plan for Syrian Invasion

http://rt.com/usa/news/pentagon-syria-us-forces-923/

"...CNN's report confirms that the military has indeed drafted instructions that lay out the implementation of the no-fly zone. Additionally, officials say that a large number of US troops could soon be installed overseas to aid in the war.."

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

CDN_FORCES wrote:

No one justified killing civilians, except the Alawi guy in the Star story.

Don't trust those Alawi is your not to subtle message and it a disgusting one.  Dehumanizing the "enemy" is the first priority of any propaganda spewed out on behalf of an empire about to inflict more pain and suffering on millions of people.

Allow me to bust in on this one. And I snipped-off what was an excellent post by you, kropotkin, because I wanted to expand on our previous exchange as to why the NDP hasn't contested any of the faulty lapdog newz media reporting since NATO-Qa'eda forces laid siege to Tripoli and are now working hand-in-glove to arm various "rebel groups" in Syria and using Turkey as a staging country to launch terrorist attacks against Assad's government troops and civilians. 

I'd just like to point out that like the events surrounding the infamous terrorist attacks on 9/11/01, the lapdog newz media are basically reporting whatever US Government and NATO countries instruct them to WRT Syria similarly. There is no fourth estate anymore. Lapdog newz media is a long-time organ of the state capitalist setup including NATO's ambitious push Eastward since the end the end of the cold war. 

It makes no sense to me that the NDP should shift gears now and challenge the official NATO-Gladio colder war version of events in Syria. The truth would necessitate pointing to the fact that US Government has colluded with righ wing religious fundamentalists, mujahideen, Al-Qa'eda and Qa'eda affiliated terrorists and mercenaries for hire from over 40 countries and dating back to 1980's Afghanistan, and 1990's Bosnia and Macedonia. How can the NDP begin to afford the time and effort and party resources to research this colder war issue and especially at a time when large numbers of even the left are still under the illusion that 9/11 was not an inside job to launch ten years of global warfiteering and imperialist maneuvering on the other side of the world?

I really don't believe this is what NDP delegates hired Mulcair to do. Like 9/11 truth, truth about Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Syria is simply too much for one oppostition party in Ottawa to take on. First things first we have a corrupt stoogeaucracy to clean out of in Ottawa. Like 9/11 truth is far too much for voters to focus on leading up to elections in 2015, so, too,  is this colder war maneuvering in the Middle East too much for the NDP to tackle. It would be political suicide. Eyes on the prize. And I think those who agree that 9/11 truth is too far gone down the rabbit hole to pursue politically, so is the current NATO agenda in Syria. Colder war events will unfold in the Middle East regardless of whether the NDP chooses to fall on their swords over Syria or not. Let's not make it easy for them to retain phony-majority power in Ottawa by 2015.  In Canada the real conspiracy is our obsolete electoral system. And if the NDP can overthrow our FPTP electoral regime, I think it would be significant for the left in general.

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Actually it is factually correct and I don't find anything about our evil empire's murderous behavior to be cute. 

I also doubt Assad is looking after the interests of all the people. Who the fuck said he was?  That's the best you got for a rationale debate? The UN reports are not neutral they are biased. I can imagine what would happen in the streets of Montreal if people started bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure. I am sure our police and military would not respond with excessive force. [sarcasm alert]

This is a civil war and the best that can be said for NATO is they are pouring gasoline on the blaze while screaming we saw the arsonist who lit this.

People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.

Fidel

CDN_FORCES wrote:
People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.
 

Yeah but what if Russia, China and Cuba were to start funding(and arming) a long list of right wing militias and other armed extremists in order to destabilize America similarly? What would happen is that those countries would soon be identified as having perpetrated acts of war against America. Similar occurs when Warshington funds legitimate political opposition groups around the world. That's crossing the line, too.

kropotkin1951

CDN_FORCES wrote:

People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.

Try sticking to what I write not what you think it sounds like.  Once again that style of argument belies the fact that you really have no facts.  NATO is once again engaged in regime change and the civilians are suffering and will suffer a whole lot more. Those are the facts full stop.

There was a reform process in place and the NATO backed terrorists refused to take part in it.  The voter turnout for the referendum on the proposed changes was higher than in Canadian federal elections and the new constitutional process was passed overwhelmingly. The brutal dictator agreed to a peaceful process to restrict his regimes power. NATO's response was fuck you we demand you leave.  The western backed terrorists bombed infrastructure in response to the people voting to go a peaceful route.

The imperialist bullshit you are spewing is dangerous to the health and safety of people all over the globe.. Your an advocate of murder and destruction and what the fuck that has to do with a progressive site is beyond me.

Fidel

One of us is as a sponge for the pro war propaganda. And I'm pretty sure it isn't me or Kropotkin1951.

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

CDN_FORCES wrote:

People don't just wake one morning and decide it be jolly good fun to go "bombing police stations and launching armed attacks against vital infrastructure". They're pushed to it by heavy-handed government oppression. What you wrote makes it sound like the Syrian people are responsible for their current misfortune.

Try sticking to what I write not what you think it sounds like.  Once again that style of argument belies the fact that you really have no facts.  NATO is once again engaged in regime change and the civilians are suffering and will suffer a whole lot more. Those are the facts full stop.

There was a reform process in place and the NATO backed terrorists refused to take part in it.  The voter turnout for the referendum on the proposed changes was higher than in Canadian federal elections and the new constitutional process was passed overwhelmingly. The brutal dictator agreed to a peaceful process to restrict his regimes power. NATO's response was fuck you we demand you leave.  The western backed terrorists bombed infrastructure in response to the people voting to go a peaceful route.

The imperialist bullshit you are spewing is dangerous to the health and safety of people all over the globe.. Your an advocate of murder and destruction and what the fuck that has to do with a progressive site is beyond me.

If you don't want me calling out your silly statements about mythical bombings at Montreal police stations and armed attacks against vital infrastructure, don't make them.

NATO isn't involved in regime change in Syria, and any civilian suffering is being caused by Assad's government. Those are the UN's facts by the way.

As for facts, everything I post here is factual and open source. And your timeline regarding Syria's current crisis is way off. K.A. as the UN special envoy came up with a peace plan that everyone agreed with, on paper at least. As soon as the UN monitors left Assad's forces resumed killing civilians.

My last point is that no one here (i.e. me) is supporting armed intervention in Syria, what you call imperialism. I've been very clear that that's not going to happen. Once Assad wins by killing a whole bunch of people I fully expect the usual suspects to come out of the woodwork bemoaning the fact that "The West" did nothing to help them - similar to Rwanda or South Sudan.

NDPP

Russian Warning Shots  - by Thierry Meyssan

http://www.voltairenet.org/Russian-Warning-Shots

"...Any interpretation that what is currently happening in the Levant is the result of an internal dynamic of revolution/repression within Syria is not only false but a distortion of the real stakes involved...The Syrian crisis is first and foremost a further stage in the project of 'remodelling of the greater Middle East' a further attempt to destroy the 'Axis of Resistance' and the first 'war for gas' being played out.

What is actually at stake in Syria is not whether Bashar al Assad will be able to democratize the institutions he has inherited or whether the Wahhabist monarchies of the Gulf will succeed in destroying the last secular regime in the region and impose their sectarianism, but to determine the lines of separation between the emerging power blocks of NATO and the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Council).

Some of our readers will be startled to read the preceding phrase. Indeed, the Western and Gulf media have been hammering the point day after day that President El Assad is a sectarian dictator working to the advantage of the Alawite minority, while the armed opposition to his authority is portrayed as the incarnation of democratic pluralism.

Just a glance at recent events is enough to belie this version..."

 

US Holds High Level Talks With Syrian Rebels Seeking Weapons in Washington

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9334707/US-ho...

"A senior Free Syrian Army representative met in the past week at the US State Department with the US ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford and Frederick Huff, special coordinator for the Middle East, sources have confirmed. The rebel emissaries, armed with an iPad showing detailed plans on Google Earth identifying rebel positions and regime targets, have also met with senior members of the National Security Council, which advises President Obama on national security policy.

The move towards what was described as a 'Libya-lite' intervention in Syria is expected to gather force following the anticipated failure of the Annan peace plan and the meeting of the Syria Contact Group scheduled for June 30 in Geneva. 'The intervention will happen, it is not a question of 'if', but 'when'.."

quizzical

CDN_FORCES wrote:
I fully expect the usual suspects to come out of the woodwork bemoaning the fact that "The West" did nothing to help them - similar to Rwanda or South Sudan.

couple quick questions...who are the "usual suspects"? and why are you labelling them as alleged criminals?

Fidel

That's an insult to the ringmasters who played more of a hand in Rwanda than he cares to give them credit for.

howeird beale

Fidel wrote:

Yeah but what if Russia,,, were to start funding to destabilize America similarly?

 

I remember when the USSR went out of business, they found entire warehouses in Russia full of nothing but unread copies of the Canadian Tribune.

Fidel

They say the landscape resembles Canada except with fewer absentee corporate landlords siphoning-off the oil and gas and old growth forest to be made into luxurious toilet paper. And the logging roads better maintained in Canada.

Fidel

CDN_FORCES wrote:
NATO isn't involved in regime change in Syria, and any civilian suffering is being caused by Assad's government. Those are the UN's facts by the way.

As for facts, everything I post here is factual and open source.

Anyone can see that this is another proxy war between the U.S.-led NATO countries and Russia and SCO countries supporting Syria. The countries funding and arming the "Free Syrian Army" are Saudi Arabia and Qatar, two undemocratic imperialist countries friendly with the Atlantic Alliance nations. There is no indication whatosoever that these imperialist countries intend to install a democratic government in Damascus. It's more likely that another regime friendly to Al-Qa'eda and Qa'eda affiliated terrorist groups would fill the power vacuum in Syria.

The truth is that most Syrians back the Assad government in Damascus. And it's likely that R2P "humanitarian" intervention in Syria could end up causing 100,000 deaths.

kropotkin1951

CDN Forces I trust the UN on very few issues.  Its like saying the Greeks must be subjected to austerity because the World Bank and the IMF say it is good for them.  The UN has lost all credibility in this new century when it comes to international affairs.  The Duty to Protect is the antithesis of the idea that sovereign nations should not have their affairs interfered with by other countries. It leads to war mongers being able to say we had to or we would have been damned for inaction.  You effectively highlighted this dynamic in your post above.  The idea of war making as a good is immoral, illogical and either hypocritical or naive.  There can be no peace when there is war.  Starting wars always breaks the peace.  Going to war to bring peace is like fucking for virginity.

Sanctions like the ones being imposed that are designed to destroy an economy are in fact an act of war.  The arming of insurgents and provision of logistic and financial support as NATO and its allies are currently doing is a violation of international law. They are engaged in regime change and your efforts at obfuscating the truth are pathetic.  I wish that instead of firing environmental scientists our government would give people like you your pink slips and send you out to get a real job.

NDPP

US Attempting to Trigger Full Proxy War in Syria  - by Tony Cartalucci

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2012/06/us-attempting-to-trigger-full-p...

"...There is no turning back for the West, it has created a global cascade of destabilization, revealed its hand that it is aiming not only to overrun all of the Middle East, Central and Southeast Asia, but eventually Moscow and Beijing as well."

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

CDN Forces I trust the UN on very few issues.

Really? 

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Duty to Protect is the antithesis of the idea that sovereign nations should not have their affairs interfered with by other countries. It leads to war mongers being able to say we had to or we would have been damned for inaction.  You effectively highlighted this dynamic in your post above.  The idea of war making as a good is immoral, illogical and either hypocritical or naive.  There can be no peace when there is war.  Starting wars always breaks the peace.  Going to war to bring peace is like fucking for virginity.

Total gibberish. The duty to protect those who can't defend themselves is rooted in thousands of years of human history. It's one of the things that differentiates us from the animals. Your way is the law of the jungle, where the Kosovo Muslims are exterminated.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I wish that instead of firing environmental scientists our government would give people like you your pink slips and send you out to get a real job.

I'm sure you feel like that right now, today. But someday when you or your family are in peril and require help that the military is best positioned to provide I'm sure you'll change your mind. No athiests in foxholes and all that.

Fidel

CDN_FORCES wrote:
Your way is the law of the jungle, where the Kosovo Muslims are exterminated.

Yeah and NO THANKS to Gladio ringleaders, either. They were moderate Muslims in Eastern Europe and edge of Europe until NATO sword operators intervened in the 1990s. From terrorists and war crims to drug dealing mafia and partners in crime.

CDN_FORCES wrote:
I'm sure you feel like that right now, today. But someday when you or your family are in peril and require help that the military is best positioned to provide I'm sure you'll change your mind. No athiests in foxholes and all that.

False flag terror is preventable. We just have to be vigilant is all.

kropotkin1951

CDN_FORCES wrote:

Total gibberish. The duty to protect those who can't defend themselves is rooted in thousands of years of human history. It's one of the things that differentiates us from the animals. Your way is the law of the jungle, where the Kosovo Muslims are exterminated.

Unlike me it seems that your areas of expertise are neither law nor political studies. Once again your use of language like "total gibberish" shows you have no facts and do not want to actually debate the essence of the issues. You are here to spew venomous propaganda.

My way is the way of international law and treaties that say interfering in the internal affairs of a sovereign nation is not allowed.  It is not a centuries old doctrine but rather one from the last century. The impetus for the change to that model were the endless wars that plagued Europe in the 18th, 19th and first half of the 20th century.  Most empires and wanna be empires in those centuries used the excuse of protecting minorities to go to war.  Your postings above remind me of the infamous WWI propaganda showing German soldiers bayoneting babies.

As to needing your protection could you please tell me who is going to invade Canada? It occurs to me that the more we extend the range of Canadian military might in conjunction with NATO the more people in the world hate us.  We need coast guard and a small standing army trained to deal with natural disasters and an air force capable of operating in our north and other isolated areas to ensure those communities have security from natural disasters as well.  We don't need to project ourselves into civil wars on the other side of the planet.

quizzical

CDN_FORCES wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:
CDN Forces I trust the UN on very few issues.
Really? 
kropotkin1951 wrote:

The Duty to Protect is the antithesis of the idea that sovereign nations should not have their affairs interfered with by other countries. It leads to war mongers being able to say we had to or we would have been damned for inaction.  You effectively highlighted this dynamic in your post above.  The idea of war making as a good is immoral, illogical and either hypocritical or naive.  There can be no peace when there is war.  Starting wars always breaks the peace.  Going to war to bring peace is like fucking for virginity.

Total gibberish. The duty to protect those who can't defend themselves is rooted in thousands of years of human history. It's one of the things that differentiates us from the animals. Your way is the law of the jungle, where the Kosovo Muslims are exterminated.

na not so gibberish unlike yours. could ya give some examples of the 1000's of years of protection? 'cause  i don't believe it for a NY minute. i won't wait for a response to my  examples question as you have 2 outstanding to answer already...and there just aren't any (nor are Kosovo Muslims).

war is the way of the jungle. tipping truth on it's head  must pay well.

kropotkin1951 wrote:
I wish that instead of firing environmental scientists our government would give people like you your pink slips and send you out to get a real job.

I'm sure you feel like that right now, today. But someday when you or your family are in peril and require help that the military is best positioned to provide I'm sure you'll change your mind. No athiests in foxholes and all that.

families in peril????? YGTFK...

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

As to needing your protection could you please tell me who is going to invade Canada?

 I never claimed Canada was at risk of being invaded; you inferred that all by yourself. What I said was "peril".

Let's suppose you're in northern Ontario during fire season and need immediate evacuation:

http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/v2/nr-sp/index-eng.asp?id=11974

July 22, 2011

OTTAWA - Since Wednesday evening, the Canadian Forces have evacuated over 500 more Canadians from northern Ontario communities, which continue to be threatened by wildfires. Five Canadian Forces CC-130 Hercules transport aircraft began flying at first light this morning from Winnipeg, Manitoba, picking up people from Sandy Lake, Kingfisher Lake and Deer Lake First Nations communities and delivering them to Thunder Bay, Ontario.

Or let's say you're in peril from flooding:

Canadian military rush to Manitoba flood zone

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/environment/extreme-weather/red-ri...

At the height of the battle, over 8000 soldiers - one-tenth of the Canadian military - are on duty in the Manitoba flood zone. They come from all over - Canadian Forces Bases Petawawa, Kingston, Gagetown and Edmonton - to help in all sorts of ways. Engineers help the highways department. Other personnel build and patrol dikes and evacuate communities, police empty towns and provide medical assistance and, once it's all over, help thousands of people return home. CBC TV's Robert Enright was there to watch Canadian heroes at work.

Or your fishing boat is sinking:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2011/10/31/north-igloolik-survivor.html

Igloolik survivor calls rescuers 'heroes'

One of the survivors of last week's fatal rescue mission near Igloolik, Nunavut, describes his rescuers as heroes.

"The one who came to us truly saved our lives, bailing water from the raft. We were helpless and he saved us," said David Aqqiaruq.

 

Page Break

Back to foreign intervention. I don't agree with the idea that a government can do whatever it wants to the people living with the borders of a sovereign country.I believe that if civilians are being massacred by their government, that government is longer legitimate. I can't see any justification for shelling any unarmed civilians.

That also applies to Israel by the way, not only Syria.

 

 

 

 

 

NDPP

I'm sold. But keep them at home, enhance their search and rescue capabilities and no more international hired gun lap-dogging for imperialist US/NATO interests.

Fidel

NDPP wrote:

"... and no more international hired gun lap-dogging for imperialist US/NATO interests."

 

Pfffff!  Laughing Who's an errand boy sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill? 

NDPP

UK, US Spying for Syrian Rebels: Report

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/06/18/246736/uk-us-spying-for-syrian-rebels/

"British and American spy satellites have been listening in on Syrian government forces and passing the intelligence to rebels through spies on the ground, British media reports.."

kropotkin1951

For those of you that don't trust Press TV here is its source. This is an act of war.  NATO is actively involved in a civil war taking place within Syria. So much for people who try to deny that regime change is the game being played out in Syria.

Daily Star wrote:

A SPY-IN-THE-SKY is listening in on President Assad’s ruthless killers to save the lives of ­innocent men, women and children. The British and US ­satellites pick up their plans then pass them on to dissident leaders through MI6 and CIA ­officers who have ­infiltrated Syria.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/257143/Satellites-target-Syrian-lea...

 

CDN_FORCES

kropotkin1951 wrote:

For those of you that don't trust Press TV here is its source. This is an act of war.  NATO is actively involved in a civil war taking place within Syria. So much for people who try to deny that regime change is the game being played out in Syria.

Daily Star wrote:

A SPY-IN-THE-SKY is listening in on President Assad’s ruthless killers to save the lives of ­innocent men, women and children. The British and US ­satellites pick up their plans then pass them on to dissident leaders through MI6 and CIA ­officers who have ­infiltrated Syria.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/257143/Satellites-target-Syrian-lea...

 

 

Truly a fantastic source that Daily Star. Not sexist or tabloid-y at all...

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/babes/ (Not safe for work.)

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