Syria

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WilderMore

Frmrsldr wrote:

I have read accounts of these groups being armed by the Mossad (state of Israel's intelligence.)

 

Yeah, that Stormfront site has lots of "objective" accounts of Israel carrying out nefarious deeds. But please stay focussed; we're taling about Syria and how Assad murders his own people (well. not "his" people. people from other ethnic groups who oppose him).

Frmrsldr

WilderMore wrote:

Frmrsldr wrote:

I have read accounts of these groups being armed by the Mossad (state of Israel's intelligence.)

Yeah, that Stormfront site has lots of "objective" accounts of Israel carrying out nefarious deeds. But please stay focussed; we're taling about Syria and how Assad murders his own people (well. not "his" people. people from other ethnic groups who oppose him).

Yeah, the precooked pablum that the mainstream media spoonfeeds those who have the stomach to swallow it about Assad and Syria is the same as that of Gadhafi and Lybia. Noticed? No surprize there.

The American Empire grows even though the Emperor has no clothes.

What "Stormfront" site is that?

The site I'm talking about is antiwar.

That is a "Stormfront" site?

Syrian soldiers have not been killed by armed protesters?

Remember, for every issue there are at least two sides.

The mainstream media does not have a monopoly on the truth.

Oops. Am I shattering some illusions, waking people up from their dreams?

welder welder's picture

howeird beale wrote:

Yeah, thing is welder, in the tinfoil hat brigade there is only one international actor, the US. So if you try to analyze how any other player may try to shape global events, such as, say, the People's Republic of Walmart, or, say various leaders of Gulf emirates who also provided material assistance to the Libyan rebels, well, then you're "drinking koolaid."

This, of course, includes the people of all these countries which are in upheaval as well. Very few of the posters on this board have organized a bake sale, never mind a mass demonstration, so the concept of people participating in their own civil society is like a message from Mars to them. People cant be naturally inclined to fight people who enslave them, they must be dancing on their masters puppet strings

I wont even call it analysis, its just boring binary thinking.

 

Spot on...

 

It's this pathetic mindset that allows that certain cadre of folks here to claim "progressivity" all the while tacitly(sometimes openly) backing despotic dictators,such as Col. Mo,because of their blind hatred of all things linked to the US.Interestingly,these same people who stand up for many minority causes in the West,some necessary some not,back certain factions in the Arab world who would openly slit their collective throats for their thinking,simply because a certain country in that region is backed by the US.

 

They seem to have glombed onto the PRC as some sort of twisted evidence that Marxism,in some form or another,really works.Even the Chinese realized that it does'nt and began their descent into Corporate Fascism over 2 decades ago.Yet somehow this group still clings to Chairman Mao and his twisted Agrarian Communism,which failed miserably with the requisite human tragedy...And was roundly eschewed by Deng Xiaopeng.

 

(By the way,let's await the usual suspects who will get all relativistic and say that Capitalism has killed as many people)

 

The problem with this cadre is that they cannot come to grips with the reality of thier ideological situation,so they have to come up with hairbrained conspiracy theories to explain why they've essentially been defeated...I'm speaking of the hardline "Hammer and Sickle" crowd here...Their Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital is on fire over there on the scrapheap of history along with Mein Kampf...

 

And you are correct,it's not analysis at all..It's the same two dimensional ideologically driven thinking that permeates the hard Right...Simple minded drivel dressed up as intellectualism,if you ask me...

Fidel

Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme

Kapitalism, that monstrous ideology with 100, 000, 000 skeletons in its 20th century closet alone.

Kapitalism has failed in various experiments since 14th century Italy. It did the big swan dive in 1929 America, 1985 Chile, and again in 2008.

Kapitalism is a monumental failure.

And all their friends will be going to hell in a handbag, too.

Fidel

NDPP wrote:

Syria: Who Is Behind The Protest Movement?   -  by Michel Chossudovsky

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24591

"...There is evidence of gross media manipulation and falsification from the outset of the protest movement in southern Syria on March 17.."

 

So just as the case was in Libya, this is an armed insurrection supported by NATO countries, Israel, Turkey etc. 

What it is not is a spontaneous people's rebellion. They are death squads and U.S.-backed al-Qa'eda mercenaries confronting police and Syrian military face to face, and NATO countries are aiding and abetting the armed insurrection by Muslim Brotherhood affiliated Islanic groups. But there are no peaceful protests happening in Libya as the lamestream newz media, fake lefties etc have claimed to be the case.

welder welder's picture

Fidel wrote:

Le Livre Noir du Capitalisme

Kapitalism, that monstrous ideology with 100, 000, 000 skeletons in its 20th century closet alone.

Kapitalism has failed in various experiments since 14th century Italy. It did the big swan dive in 1929 America, 1985 Chile, and again in 2008.

Kapitalism is a monumental failure.

And all their friends will be going to hell in a handbag, too.

 

Right on cue...Moral relativism reigns supreme on the extreme Left!!!

 

Laughing

 

Absolutely...

 

Unfettered Capitalism is a horrific extreme.You are absolutely correct...

 

Unfortunately for folks like you,it's counterbalance(namely Marxism),is equally horrific...Perpetrated by equally sociopathic mass murderers who will also have goldplated condominiums in hell...

 

Folks like Chairman Mao Tse Tung,Vladimir Lennin,Joseph Stalin,Leon Trotsky,every other Chairman of the Soviet Politburo,FIDEL Castro,Pol Pot,Karl Marx,Friedrich Engels etc...

 

As I said,your defeated ideology is over there on the scrapheap of history...Must be why folks like you stick up for every murderous authoritarian dictator and movement that stands in direct conflict with the "Great Satan"?

Merowe

WilderMore wrote:

Frmrsldr wrote:

I have read accounts of these groups being armed by the Mossad (state of Israel's intelligence.)

 

Yeah, that Stormfront site has lots of "objective" accounts of Israel carrying out nefarious deeds. But please stay focussed; we're taling about Syria and how Assad murders his own people (well. not "his" people. people from other ethnic groups who oppose him).

Even the New York Times reported Israel's air strike on the rumoured Syrian nuclear facility: if they're prepared to mount logistically demanding raids deep in enemy territory, arming a few desperadoes is child's play. If you actually read the links up-thread so that you had a clue, you'd have come across various video documentation of armed non-government actors and their bloody work, and wouldn't be cluttering the board with such uninformed comment. That is not a plug for Assad: simply a recognition of a reality more complex than the black and white construction the western press is dealing in: the same one you're currently operating with.

The thread title is 'Syria' which obviously does NOT limit us to discussion of the multiple failings of the Assad regime.

Frmrsldr

welder wrote:

... Interestingly,these same people who stand up for many minority causes in the West,some necessary some not,back certain factions in the Arab world who would openly slit their collective throats for their thinking,simply because a certain country in that region is backed by the US.

Saudi Arabia is a country backed by the U.S. in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia would openly slit the collective throats of any "progressive"/"lefty"/"Marxist" for their thinking.

welder wrote:

The problem with this cadre is that they cannot come to grips with the reality of thier ideological situation,so they have to come up with hairbrained conspiracy theories to explain why they've essentially been defeated...I'm speaking of the hardline "Hammer and Sickle" crowd here...Their Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital is on fire over there on the scrapheap of history along with Mein Kampf...

Capitalism hasn't been able to leave the "Boom and Bust Cycle" in the dustbin of history either.

The 1930s were marked by the Great Depression and a number of wars: 1931 Manchurian War, 1936-45 Sino-Japanese War, 1935-36 Italy-Abyssinia (Ethiopia) War, 1936-39 Spanish Civil War, World War 2.

The first decade and counting of the 21st Century is marked by a number of wars: 2001 - (    ) Afghan War, 2001 - (    ) covert Pakistan War, 2003 - (    ) Iraq War, Somalia War, Yemen War, March 19, 2011 - ? Libya War.

We are in the Great Depression II:

Look at the American economy - bankrupt.

Look at the EU economy - teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

Look at the economy of Greece. Bailing out Greece's economy has drained the economies of the stronger E.U. countries. Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany has stated that Germany (and the E.U. for that matter) cannot afford to bail out Greece another time.

Look at the economies of Iceland, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Italy - they are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. France's economy is not doing so well either. If one or more of these economies goes bankrupt like Greece, Germany and the other E.U. countries will not be able to bail them out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no champion of China, but if we look at what's going on, China is the rising Empire. All these wars in Central Asia, the Middle East and the American Empire's 21st Century meddling in Africa is all about a mad scramble for oil and other strategic resources in the attempt to squeeze out China and prevent the rise of the Chinese Empire and the decline of the American Empire.

 

Frmrsldr

Double post.

Fidel

welder wrote:
As I said,your defeated ideology is over there on the scrapheap of history...Must be why folks like you stick up for every murderous authoritarian dictator and movement that stands in direct conflict with the "Great Satan"?

Well we have socialism in Cuba. None of the 900 million to a billion chronically hungry around the capitalist third world are Cuban. 

And the Chinese miracle would never have happened without Maoists chasing the mass murdering, U.S. and British backed Chiang Kai-shek and his gangsters out of the country by 1949. China was a fourth world country in 1949 and behind even democratic capitalist India in every social measure. By 1976, Chinese infant mortality was better than democratic capitalist India's same social statistic today.  China was a basket case with the US and British and Japanese trying to hack off pieces of China for themselves. Illiteracy was 80% and average life expectancy about 30 years. 

Meanwhile, democratic capitalist India continues producing as many skeletons every eight years as what China did in all its years of shame from 1958 to '61.

Robert Lindsey wrote:
It is possible that no system in human history ever saved so many lives so quickly as Maoism.

World Bank statistics stand as testament to the miraculous improvements in health care and education in China in Mao's time.

The smallest gains against premature death and disease in China began in Deng's time and the experiments in state capitalism.

According to Amartya Sen's numbers, democratic capitalist India alone produced about 100 million skeletons prematurely between the years 1947 and 1979. 

Today there are about a billion chronically hungry people around the democratic capitalist third world. None of them live in socialist Cuba. All Cuban children have a right to see a doctor and go to school. That's just not true in Haiti, the "freest trading nation in the Caribbean" according to Washington. And it's not true in third world capitalist hellholes just a few day's drive from Texas where child labour and grinding poverty are a way of life for millions of desperate humanity living under the tyrany of U.S.-backed regimes.

Capitalism has failed in various experiments since 14th century Italy and under mostly optimal peace time conditions and with access to significant regions of the world's most arable lands and cheap/slave labour in Latin America and beyond.

Capitalism is a monstrous ideology even when it isn't waging dirty wars against developing countries trying to exist outside the sphere of a vicious empire.

welder wrote:
As I said,your defeated ideology is over there on the scrapheap of history..

Socialism is all around you. It was laissez-faire capitalism that died in 1929 America and 1985 Chile. Look it up for yourself. It's collapsing again today after trying on laissez-faire a second time between 1980 and 2008.

Socialism is there in 30 rich OECD countries with socialized medicine, national pension plans, public works and social spending. In Sweden they plough a third of GDP back into socialism for Swedes. Sweden is typically ranked in the top five most competitive economies in the world.

Socialism is there in countries like Singapore in various social spending and state owned entities. 90% of the people live in state housing. Singapore's is also one of the most competitive economies in the world.

Socialism is even there in the most capitalist country in the world with its significant spending in social sectors, health care, research and development in publicly funded universities and even the military and supplying "the free market" with new product ideas and innovation, public pensions keeping millions of Americans out of dire poverty, Soviet-style soft budget constraint spending on all manner of public enterprises and taxpayers spending a source of stimulus for very many private sector businesses. Warren Buffet is running around talking up America's "capitalist" advantage over Europe in that the U.S. has maintained certain powers of government money creation(socialism) while the most neoliberal experiment ever conducted is falling apart in the EU today. The US economy would surely collapse tomorrow if it wasn't for so much public spending in the economy(socialism). :-)

If you weren't so willfully blind to it all, you'd realize that socialism is one of the few things that does work in this screwed up world.

MegB

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