Taiwan

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NorthReport
Taiwan

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NorthReport
NorthReport

Same old game playing out in Strait of Taiwan, but risks of disaster are higher

Most news agencies reported Sunday that China sent large groups of fighters and bombers into Taiwanese airspace two days in a row. Much fluttering in the dovecote: the Chinese are testing the resolve of newly installed U.S. President Joe Biden.

Considerably fewer agencies also reported that an American aircraft carrier group sailed between Taiwan and the Philippines into the South China Sea at the same time. Yet the American warships must have sailed first. It takes time to get there from the U.S. navy’s Pacific bases.

Given the timing, it was probably ex-president Trump who gave the order to sail; however, Biden had just enough time to countermand it if he was willing to take the blame for “betraying” the Taiwanese, who are understandably nervous about U.S. willingness to defend them from a Chinese attack.A He didn’t give that order.

What China did was not illegal. The Chinese aircraft only entered Taiwan’s unilaterally declared air defence identification zone, which is not sovereign Taiwanese territory. They were almost certainly responding to the U.S. naval presence, and the actions of both sides are entirely legal and purely symbolic. Nobody is going to get hurt this time, but there will be a next time.

https://lfpress.com/opinion/columnists/dyer-same-old-game-playing-out-in...

kropotkin1951

So NR  are you not aware of the fact that Taiwan is an island province of China. The Chinese flew airplanes in their own airspace and you think it is a provocation. The fascists losers of the Chinese civil war fled to Taiwan and from 1949 to 1972 they insisted that China was one country and they were the rightful government and most of the "free" world agreed with them. The Chinese government allows them far more autonomy over their affairs than the US allows Puerto Rico. I also know that if one believes in the people ruling then it has to be noted that the Taiwanese are almost equally split over whether they want to be controlled by China or be independent. The best thing for them would be for us imperialists to just let them decide for themselves.

NDPP

US Sends Another Warship Through Taiwan Strait

https://news.antiwar.com/2021/02/25/us-sends-another-warship-through-tai...

"A US warship sailed through the sensitive Taiwan Strait on Wednesday, the second such passage under the Biden administration. The US Navy's 7th Fleet said the guided missile destroyer USS Curtis Wilbur made the provocative maneuver. Beijing denounced the provocation..."

JKR

kropotkin1951 wrote:

So NR  are you not aware of the fact that Taiwan is an island province of China. The Chinese flew airplanes in their own airspace and you think it is a provocation. The fascists losers of the Chinese civil war fled to Taiwan and from 1949 to 1972 they insisted that China was one country and they were the rightful government and most of the "free" world agreed with them. The Chinese government allows them far more autonomy over their affairs than the US allows Puerto Rico. I also know that if one believes in the people ruling then it has to be noted that the Taiwanese are almost equally split over whether they want to be controlled by China or be independent. The best thing for them would be for us imperialists to just let them decide for themselves.

Taiwan independence - Wikipedia 

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Public opinion

According to an opinion poll conducted in Taiwan by the Mainland Affairs Council in 2019, 27.7% of respondents supported Taiwan's independence: 21.7% said that the status quo has to be maintained for now but Taiwan should become independent in the future, while 6% said that independence must be declared as soon as possible. 31% of respondents supported the current situation as it is, and 10.3% agreed to unification with the mainland with 1.4% saying that it should happen as soon as possible.[44]

Taiwanese Public Opinion Foundation poll conducted again in June 2020 showed, 54% of respondents support official independence for Taiwan: 23.4 percent prefer maintaining the status quo, 12.5 percent favor unification with China, and 10 percent do not hold any particular view on the matter. This represents the highest level of support for Taiwan's Independence since the survey was first conducted in 1991.[45]

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Accordng to these polls few Taiwanese want to be controlled by China. Almost 90% seem to want Taiwan to be sovereign, either as an independent province or independent state.

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

Accordng to these polls few Taiwanese want to be controlled by China. Almost 90% seem to want Taiwan to be sovereign, either as an independent province or independent state.

I love your math. 54 + 24= nearly 90, not even nearly 80 but nearly 90. Exaggerating is a piss poor debating technique.

Here is a link to the actual survey's done by MAC and they clearly show that the people of Taiwan don't support being a Chinese province especially in the long run. However the idea that, "almost 90% seem to want Taiwan to be sovereign" seems to be a conclusion you have drawn. Here is the latest 2020 MAC poll and their quote about that issue. This poll does clearly show that 90% the people of Taiwan do not want the Chinese military playing war games in the Strait. You would have made an excellent point for your argument if you had emphasized that instead.

By the way MAC is a Taiwanese government agency that does polling among many other things but its primary purpose is Cross Strait relations with China, Hong Kong and Macau. In the meantime Canada and the US should stay the fuck out of the internal affairs of other countries. After all if you believe in democracy you should respect the fact that nearly 90% of the people of Taiwan support the status quo because frankly who needs endless war to gain some nebulous "freedom." I emphasized the quote so you can't miss it.

More than 80% support that Taiwan's future and the development of cross-Strait relations must be decided by the 23 million people of Taiwan (86.4%). People in favor of "maintaining the status quo defined in a broad sense" still account for the great majority of the public (87.6%), maintaining a long-term stable trend. Regarding the current pace of cross-Strait exchanges, 43.7% of the public believe the pace to be "just right," while 7.5% and 32.6% believe it to be "too fast" and "too slow," respectively.

https://ws.mac.gov.tw/001/Upload/297/relfile/8010/6039/754712bc-be5f-4ad...

JKR

I think it's fair to say that most Taiwanese support basically the status quo, namely maintaining their independence from China without becoming an independent state.

kropotkin1951

JKR wrote:

I think it's fair to say that most Taiwanese support basically the status quo, namely maintaining their independence from China without becoming an independent state.

Wow you agree with the poll. What do you think is a proper role for Canada in this matter? Should they be playing war games in the Strait and should we be funding political parties and movements inside Taiwan? Personally I believe in sovereign nations being governed by their own people and so I really wish my government would stop spending my tax dollars on imperial war games on the other side of the Pacific.

JKR

 

Poll shows highest ever support for Taiwan independence

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Over 50% of Taiwanese favor de jure sovereign state, less than 13% support unification with China.

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — Over half of Taiwanese support formal independence for their country, according to a survey released by the Taiwanese Public Opinion Foundation (TPOF) on Monday (June 22).

Around 54 percent of respondents support official independence for Taiwan. Meanwhile, 23.4 percent prefer maintaining the status quo, 12.5 percent favor unification with China, and 10 percent do not hold any particular view on the matter, the survey found.

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kropotkin1951

Wow you agree with the poll. What do you think is a proper role for Canada in this matter? Should they be playing war games in the Strait and should we be funding political parties and movements inside Taiwan? Personally I believe in sovereign nations being governed by their own people and so I really wish my government would stop spending my tax dollars on imperial war games on the other side of the Pacific.

 

JKR

I basically agree with you. Sovereign nations should be governed by their own people and Canada should only intervene in other nations if the U.N. Security Council explicitly supports such an extreme action.

NDPP

Microchips and the Macro World: Semiconductor Shortage Ushers in East-West Tech War

https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/status/1365420453188284420

"If Taiwan were no longer the center of the semiconductor manufacturing universe, would the US relinquish its influence over the island or would it continue to use it as a pawn against...the next global nemesis of the 'free world'?"

melovesproles

only intervene in other nations if the U.N. Security Council explicitly supports such an extreme action.

I highly doubt that will ever happen again after what happened with Libya. Those days are over unless there is a complete rehaul of the UN Security Council.

JKR

I don't see the U.S. or China giving up their vetoes or being forced to. Russia, France and the UK might be "persuaded" to but they would require something big in return. Maybe the Security Council could be expanded to the top fifty countries according to population with the current vetoes remaining with China, France, Russia, the UK, and the US?

kropotkin1951

The UN is now as irrelevant to the world as the League of Nations was in 1936 because the US/NATO empire does not follow international law and the UN has no way to enforce it. Canada follows the US in illegal sanctions against other countries and in illegal incursions into sovereign territories and the UN says nothing.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

The UN is now as irrelevant to the world as the League of Nations was in 1936 because the US/NATO empire does not follow international law and the UN has no way to enforce it. Canada follows the US in illegal sanctions against other countries and in illegal incursions into sovereign territories and the UN says nothing.

I agree with all points.

NDPP

Empire strikes back: China deploys fighter jets to Taiwan

https://youtu.be/Kcjzu5bvLbY

"Ever greater closeness between Taiwan and Washington, puts the longstanding 'One China' doctrine in jeopardy..."

NDPP

Empire strikes back: China deploys fighter jets to Taiwan

https://youtu.be/Kcjzu5bvLbY

"Ever greater closeness between Taiwan and Washington, puts the longstanding 'One China' doctrine in jeopardy..."