Trade wars and deals

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NDPP

Full-On Trade War: Trump Jacks Up Tariffs on $550 Bn of Chinese Goods, Blasts 'Unfair' Regime

https://on.rt.com/a0gx

"US stock-market indexes fell precipitously on Friday, with the Dow Jones plummeting 700 points at one point amid Trump's threats to cut off all trade with Beijing. When he virtually ordered US companies to 'immediately start looking for an alternative to China,' it inspired further panic. US businesses are growing increasingly desperate over the stalemate, urging Trump to put the tit-for-tat tariff war on hold and seek common ground with Xi."

 

WATCH: @14:35 "Professor Richard Wolff breaks down how the latest round of tariffs on Chinese goods will impact average Americans. 'This isn't working. We must change our relationship with China..."

https://youtu.be/NN5xWGsbhOk

NDPP

Trump is Melting Down Because China Won't Give In On Trade

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/trump-is-melting-down-because-chi...

"President Trump is in the midst of a public meltdown that is humiliating, scary and banana-republic-y even by Trumpy standards. The reason is that Trump started a trade war and China refuses to back down, having announced this morning that it is imposing retaliatory tariffs on $75 billion worth of US goods. Trump has picked fights with lots of countries. Usually they either placate him [Canada/NAFTA] or try to give him a face-saving way of de-escalating it (eg., Mexico, which is never going to pay for the wall but doesn't talk about the fact...). Sometimes they get Trump to fold by stroking his ego (The North Koreans..).

China is playing it differently. This has provoked one of Trump's wilder temper-tantrums..."

Pity Trudeau/Freeland were persuaded to go along with Trump's reckless anti-China moves and throw away such an important trading relationship at great expense to Canada, without any advantage whatsoever. Had we resisted the American's outrageous Meng Wan Zhou kidnap fiasco, which we easily could have done, things might now be very much rosier for Canada than they will be given our perceived stab in the back to the country's second largest trading partner. Instead we are now in the middle of two angry fighting elephants and as the old African proverb wisely cautioned: 'when elephants fight it is the grass that suffers.' Canada will be that grass...

NDPP

Trump Says He Has 'Absolute Right' To Order US Companies Out of China Based on 1977 Law

https://sptnkne.ws/95RF

"After China unveiled a new round of retaliatory tariffs on about $75 billion worth of US goods, Trump told US companies on Twitter to 'immediately start looking for an alternative to China,'..."

The western economic system is already precarious due to the banksters' gaming/bailout in 2008  - Trump's demented Samson shaking threatens to bring it crashing down into the deepest of recessions, as already presaged by the recent stock market crash of 700 points. Is this a deliberate destabilization I wonder? At the least he certainly won't win another election if the downward trend attendant upon his ill considered trade war continues. See marxist Economic Prof Richard Wolff's analysis below.

NDPP

This Economic System Can't Be Fixed: Millions To Lose Jobs in Recession (and podcast)

https://sptnkne.ws/8YeR

"On today's episode of Loud & Clear, Brian Becker and John Kiriakou are joined by Richard Wolff, a professor of Economics, Emeritus, University of Massachusetts, Amherst and founder of the organization Democracy At Work. Prof Wolff's latest book is Capitalism's Crisis Deepens: Essays on the Global Economic Meltdown."

NDPP

Global Capitalism: The US-China Trade Wars

https://youtu.be/xfPEfn_7_Pg

"Causes, prospects, risks - Prof Richard Wolff. (Sept 2019)

NDPP

Look Who's Holding Up  NAFTA 2.0 'Free Trade' Sellout..

https://twitter.com/senatemajldr/status/1178667979728461829

No wonder we didn't hear any Liberal campaign boasting about it. Maybe the American internecine political wars will save us from this awful neoliberal surrender? Canadian 'progressives' certainly won't. They hardly even noticed.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

eta:

..after watching this video my assesment is that it spent very little time on alternatives. most of the time was spent on explaining the current deals. 

Beyond NAFTA and CUSMA: Democracy Not Corporatocracy

The Canada-United States-Mexico Agreement (CUSMA) falls short of any real alternative, rather it follows a long line of neoliberal trade agreements that have little to do with trade and everything to do with facilitating profit generation for multinational corporations.

We discuss the trade agenda and the current political context in Mexico and Canada as well explore alternative forms of trade and build North-South cooperation.

Moderated by Viviana Patroni. Presentations by:

  • Eladio Abuniz: National Coordinator of the Authentic Labor Front. Representative in the External Affairs Commission of the National Workers Union and workers in the hospitality and rubber sector.
  • Anna Zalik: Associate Professor in the Faculty of Environmental Studies at York University where she teaches in the area of global environmental politics and critical development studies. Her research examines and critiques the political ecology and political economy of industrial extraction.
  • Sam Gindin: Former research director of the Canadian Auto Workers from 1974-2000. Adjunct professor at York University in Toronto. Co-author of The Making of Global Capitalism (Verso).

Co-sponsored by: Global Labour Research Centre (GLRC), Social Justice Fund (PSAC), United Steelworkers, OSSTF, Common Frontiers, Socialist Project. Recorded in Toronto, 25 September 2019.

NDPP

Freeland in Mexico Today as CUSMA Meets Its 'Moment of Truth'

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-freeland-treaty-mexico-1.5390452

"Canada's Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland is in Mexico City today in a last-minute flurry to tweak the renegotiated North American trade agreement. Canada's Prime Minister and Trump spoke by phone on Monday evening about 'progress towards ratification of the new North American Free Trade Agreement', according to the Prime Minister's Office. Freeland is expected to hold a media conference at the Canadian Embassy later Wednesday afternoon..."

 

Trudeau: Stop the RAT-ification of CUSMA (the new NAFTA) & petition

https://secure.canadians.org/page/40638/action/1

"CUSMA is still a corporate rights deal that requires significant changes. Call on the Trudeau government to do the right thing and put the brakes on ratifying CUSMA..."

 

Are There Alternatives To Free Trade?

https://canadians.org/blog/are-there-alternatives-free-trade

"Modern free trade agreements, along with deregulation and privatization, have let to the greatest wealth disparity since the robber-barons of the turn of the 20th century. Of the world's top economies, 31 are countries and 69 are corporations. Apple's revenues exceed the GDPs of two-thirds of the world's countries Walmart's annual revenues exceed the GDP of 157 countries. BP is bigger than Russia. Exxon is bigger than India. Trade agreements have little to do with trade..."

You know the drill Canuckleheads. Bend over, touch your toes and say 'Ohhhhh!'

 

NDPP

"Nothing more perfectly embodies the Democratic party then announcing articles of impeachment and a huge deal with the President on his single biggest priority on the same day."

https://twitter.com/PatrioticAction/status/1204224521022164992

 

NDPP

"...New toxic provisions were introduced into the new deal; a binding regulatory chapter which seats corporations at the table where regulations are made, giving them the power to modify and challenge them; the erosion of supply managed markets and sovereignty for Canadian farmers; and ineffective protection for water. The agreement does not mention the Paris climate agreement and still has provisions which further encourage privatization and deregulation of the economy...We are up against unprecedented corporate power. And with the climate crisis we have so little time."

Council of Canadians email, Dec 10, 2019

NDPP

'Positive Step For Trade Certainty in North America'

https://twitter.com/BizCouncilofCa/status/1204477105171521536

"Congratulations to PM Justin Trudeau and Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland and Canada's team of exceptionally skilled trade negotiators. Now let's move forward on ratification and implementation..."

 

"Unifor is encouraged by announced amendments to the CUSMA which clear the path to ratification of a deal re replace the damaging NAFTA trade agreement."

https://twitter.com/UniforTheUnion/status/1204511951365251078

NDPP

"Dark day today for Canadian dairy. CUSMA not only concedes further access to our market for dairy and oversight of our domestic system but will also effectively cap global dairy exports.."

https://twitter.com/cfc-plc/status/1204541144903929857

 

"Other sectors beware...Canada agreed today to what is effectively a self-imposed worldwide cap on its exports of dairy production to please our southern neighbours. This is a dangerous precedent for export sectors in any future trade negotiations."

https://twitter.com/BoileauLucie/status/1204541410688585728

I predict little criticism of this deal from anywhere, least of all from the Hill & Knowlton NDP.  All know the drill and aren't up to opposing the powerful corporate collaborationist forces that want it. Least of all Canadians who have largely ignored the whole business from start to finish.

NDPP

'Nothing Matters Unless It's Enforced' - Richard Woff on the New NAFTA (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/shows/boom-bust/475651-nord-stream-us-sanctions/

"As the USMCA continues to steam forward, what could it mean for both free trade and North American workers? Professor Richard Wolff lends us his expertise to bring us up to speed on the matter...'Most of the specific language of the agreement still has not been released to the public. Why not...?"

NDPP

The Good, the Bad & the Ugly About US-China Trade Breakthrough

https://on.rt.com/a77h

"Washington and  Beijing announced on Friday that they finally reached a 'historic and enforceable agreement' on a phase one deal that cancels looming tariff hikes, which were set to kick in on Sunday, as well as lowering some of the existing ones. Numerous trade-groups, international organizations and officials lauded the deal which could pave the way to an end to the longstanding US-China trade war. US stock indexes hit record highs. However not everyone shared in the optimism..."

NDPP

'We Must Show US That The Jokes Are Over': Top German MP Says Berlin Shouldn't Sit Idle As Washington Hypes Its Energy Projects

https://on.rt.com/a77b

"This week, US lawmakers introduced a bill tightening the chokehold on Germany's flagship energy project it jointly runs with Russia, targeting European companies laying underwater tubes for the much talked about Nord Stream 2 pipeline. Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said that European energy policy is made in Europe, not in the US..."

 

US Treasury Chief Lauds Sanctions as Alternative To Military Conflicts...

https://on.rt.com/a789

"Sanctions imposed on some stubborn countries are a better option than military conflict, Steve Mnuchin claimed, just as the US rolled out fresh penalties against Iran and EU firms helping build a German-Russian pipeline..."

NDPP

Hustle Or Slow Walk? Timing of New NAFTA Now Up To Canada

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-ratification-canada-friday-1.5429181

"US President Donald Trump and his trade representative Robert Lightizer called the shots many times during the renegotiation of the North American free trade agreement. But one final question is completely out of American hands; how soon will Canada ratify? 'All eyes will be on Canada to get the job done quickly so we can all work together to implement this agreement,' Senate Finance Chair Chuck Grassley said Wednesday as the United-States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) reached the floor for debate...The most important thing to understand is that there is no actual 'RATification vote' in Canada's parliament. The federal executive (cabinet) ratifies international treaties once laws and regulations are changed to bring the country into compliance..."

So get ready Canuckle-heads: Bend over, touch your toes and adopt the position. Hope you enjoy it. History will show you did sweet fuck all to stop it.

NDPP

Claims That The 'NAFTA 2' Agreement is Better Are A Macabre Joke

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/17/claims-that-the-nafta-2-agreemen...

"...USMCA or NAFTA2, isn't substantially different and remains a document of corporate domination. Meanwhile, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau [and his henchperson Chrystia Freeland] has been a willing participant in bringing NAFTA 2 to fruition, even going so far as to be a voice for retaining the ability of corporations to use unaccountable tribunals to sue governments, including his own and despite Canada's regulations being the most frequent target.

That dry language may sound neutral, but it is the exact language that is standard in 'free-trade' agreements. This is the language that is invoked by multi-national corporations to demand 'damages' anytime any law or regulation tht upholds health, safety, water or environmental standards prevents them from extracting the biggest possible profit. This is the language invoked in the secret tribunals that adjudicate these cases to rule in favor of corporate plunder and against regulation. When you hear 'customary international law' be afraid. The governments of Canada, Mexico and the United States have once again put a gun to their own heads..."

If only! They will be richly rewarded for their sell out.  It is to our heads and those of our children on behalf of the rich and powerful they put this gun to fire. While we continue to help them by putting the blindfolds on our own eyes to ease the pain of passing. One day very soon that easy excuse for surrender by proxy - 'But I'm all right Jack' may no longer be true.

NDPP

Johnson Will Defy US And Allow Use of Huawei Says Top Security Adviser

https://t.co/ibrlnw5E82

Obviously some US vassals are more subservient than others on this matter.

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Johnson Will Defy US And Allow Use of Huawei Says Top Security Adviser

https://t.co/ibrlnw5E82

Obviously some US vassals are more subservient than others on this matter.

That is unkind. Some are more dependent and vulnerable. Don't think that the UK will be able to resist for long.

kropotkin1951

Canada is not a victim it is an imperial colony of the US empire. Our mining companies kill indigenous people around the globe, our engineering companies are the most corrupt in the world according to the UN and our banks are the main drivers of the tar sands and pipeline expansions. Canada's elite is back to Ready Aye Ready when it comes to pleasing the US oligarchy.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Canada is not a victim it is an imperial colony of the US empire. Our mining companies kill indigenous people around the globe, our engineering companies are the most corrupt in the world according to the UN and our banks are the main drivers of the tar sands and pipeline expansions. Canada's elite is back to Ready Aye Ready when it comes to pleasing the US oligarchy.

I think what you are saying is wrong. It lets Canada off the hook suggesting that its cooperation is due to dominance rather than its own intent. Canada in some of these areas is not a bit player and not dragged along as a depdency but is a fully aware and willing participant. There is no evidence whatsoever that Canada's position would be any different than it is on most of this if Canada were equal in size and weight as the US. Perhaps we should not be so willing to excuse the intention and direction that comes from Canada in these matters. The treatment of Indigenous peoples should expose Canada as the US is not interfering in a significant way to make this happen.

The vassel state allegation about Canada may be intented as a deserved insult but it also a false excuse for a country that can do better. There is no jackboot on our necks making us do these things. Our participation and even our proximity to US interests was a decision made by Canadians and Canada must be responsible for it.

kropotkin1951

Did you even read my post Sean? I don't know why you want to immediately try and distort the simple post I wrote. Canada is responsible for its crimes WTF else could you have gotten from my post.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Did you even read my post Sean? I don't know why you want to immediately try and distort the simple post I wrote. Canada is responsible for its crimes WTF else could you have gotten from my post.

As I said explaining the relationship in terms like vassel state and colony suggests more power over Canada than exists and therefore less control and direction from inside Canada.

I get you say Canada is responsible. I disagree with the extent of outside control you allege and have argued that this means even greater responsibility lies in Canada that you acknowledge. I stand by the logic that if Canada is more independent than you suggest it is therefore more responsible. It is not that complex an argument.

Similarly, I also suggest that putting Canada rhetorically in the same category as colonies who have been forced to participate without any independence (Consider the 20th century) really minimizes the responsibility of this country just as seen in reverse your suggestions suggest greater responsibility on actual colonies of the 20th century than I beleive is fair.

I am objecting to your extreme characterizations and your extreme analysis as I sometimes do.

Canada is more independent than you suggest and more of a willing partner than a colony and in some cases takes a lead role in its participation outside Canada.

I see no reason for you to be particularly upset by this analysis other than the fact you do not like being quesitonned by those who have a different take on things than you do.

kropotkin1951

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

It lets Canada off the hook suggesting that its cooperation is due to dominance rather than its own intent.

..

I see no reason for you to be particularly upset by this analysis other than the fact you do not like being quesitonned by those who have a different take on things than you do.

I get pissed at you because you can't seem to read my posts without bias. What  do you think Ready Aye Ready implies. This was the cry of our elite in the last century when Britannia ruled the seas. It means that our elite are voluntarily engaging in imperialism as a junior partner whenever the senior partner pulls the strings. If you don't think that is our relationship with the US that is fine by me but please try reading what I post instead of reading into what I post. There are many types of colonies and Canada was never a Belgian African one for example. It strove to out British the British and now our elite are trying to out do the US. Tell me why has Canada supported coup d'etats in numerous Central and South American countries, in fact like never previously they have been been point on some of them with our diplomats leading the charge against democratically elected governments and replacing them with fascist regimes. This is not 1995 this is 2020 and you have to wake up to the fact that the opinion that our world is fucked is not an extreme characterization or a extreme analysis. I frankly find your naive view of our actual Canadian values to be vomit inducing much of the time but I try not to say thing like that except in response to your constant attempts to silence any voices that are further left than a left liberal or social democrat. Both of those I find to be of absolutely no use in the fight to gain real change in this country so I wish you would just stop trying to control the debate and remake it into your centrist world view.

 

voice of the damned

Kropotkin:

In your post to which Sean was responding, you said that our "mining companies are killing indiginous people around the world." I'm pretty sure the reason that they do that is because it's good for their own bottom line, not because they are saying Ready Aye Ready to Washington.

Now yes, the countries where the mining companies are doing this are probably ones in which there has already been a significant degree of western penetration, usually led by the USA. But that's not the same thing as saying that the mining companies need American prompting to do the things they do, after the initial western penetration has taken place.

 

 

voice of the damned

If you want an example of capitalists behaving badly irrespective of the colonial status of their nation, look at Nestle. They've been notorious for decades for their corrupt and harmful practices, especially in regards to the third word. And they're headquartered in a famously neutral country, and traded on that same country's stock exchange.

Is there any reason to think that, in the absence of Canada's NATO membership, our mining companies would behave any better in the third world than Nestle does?

Sean in Ottawa

Kropotkin,

I approach all content posts the same way -- I read the content and reply with an answer on the content.

With you it does not end there becuase you object to the idea that anyone disagrees with you and post some shit like you did here. I lost patience with this arrogant tactic becuase of the many posts you have put up like this in the past.

You may not have noticed this but you do not ever debate on what someone says. You either come back with some hypocritical bullshit attacking them for not being pure enough, some what-aboutism, or  for having the gaul to disagree with you. Just like here. 

It always starts with a normal post from me that disagrees with something you said. But a normal debate with you is always impossible becuase you move the territory of the disagreement onto somethign else - like this.

This allows you either to avoid being criticised or to blame other poeple (often me as I have no patience for you left) for the conversation going exactly where you drove it.

I took issues with your suggestion that Canada is guilty of allowing ourselves to be controlled by the US to do their bidding becuase I believe Canada has agency in this beyond aggreement with the US. You refused to engage with this theory -- instead you attack me for disagreeing and then later for the conversation being unpleasant. I know you think you are perfect but why not let the disagreement proceed on the content of the subject and not drive it to the personal in the way you always do so that you can maryr yourself when the person finally blows up and asks you to fuck yourself?

You seem so secure that your posts are perfect and nobody could take issue with them that you think my problem is just with you. I can't stand you becuase of exchanges like every damn one we have. But my reaction is to the content first and then the fighting match because of the garbage you produce after. I read, understood your post, objected to it, explained my objection and have had to argue that my explanation is valid ever since without you saying anything about what my objection actually was. 

This is why we eventually get down to me insulting you -- you ensure that you disagree and respond to a post on every level but what the post actually says.

Sean in Ottawa

I think we are in a world with little hold over corporations. I really do not think that Canadian corporations outside Canada are normally subservient to the US. Our government like most others in the world is subservient to Canadian money -- not some old fashioned empire. 

Canada does not need to pick fights with the US or resist them to behave better. They will not punish us if we behave better on the world stage in most cases. There is no indication that we go out and fuck the world for the stars and stripes. We do it for profit. We would if the US did not exist or if we were bigger than them. That is the ugly truth. We should stop living under the fig leaf of "big bad US made us do it"  -- we are not just weak cowards on the world stage, responsible for our loyalty, but responsible for much of this malevolent, greedy, selfish behaviour in exactly the same way that the US is.

voice of the damned

Sean wrote:

They will not punish us if we behave better on the world stage in most cases.

I could imagine numerous situations where an examination of the historical record would turn up transcripts in which Canadian politicians said "Well, we really don't wanna do this, but with all this pressure from Washington coming in, I guess we'd better do it anyway."

I'm having a hard time imagining such transcripts turning up in the investigation of a mining company, for example. I'm pretty sure that when they, for example, fly their Canadian workers safely into a work site, while allowing the local staff to trudge through a dangerous war zone, it's not because Uncle Sam is pressuring them to cutting back on workplace safety. The pressure is more likely coming from their own accountant.  

Sean in Ottawa

voice of the damned wrote:

Sean wrote:

They will not punish us if we behave better on the world stage in most cases.

I could imagine numerous situations where an examination of the historical record would turn up transcripts in which Canadian politicians said "Well, we really don't wanna do this, but with all this pressure from Washington coming in, I guess we'd better do it anyway."

I'm having a hard time imagining such transcripts turning up in the investigation of a mining company, for example. I'm pretty sure that when they, for example, fly their Canadian workers safely into a work site, while allowing the local staff to trudge through a dangerous war zone, it's not because Uncle Sam is pressuring them to cutting back on workplace safety. The pressure is more likely coming from their own accountant.  

Exactly. We are not otherwise morally correct people being pushed into bad behaviour by some cowardice and misplaced loyalty to the US. Canada is every bit a part of the greed machine capital system and needs no pressure. Canadians companies and individuals and political choices place greed ahead of social justice. suggestions that this is becuae we are not quite free enough or follow the US blindly is actually charitable when considered alongside the role Canada actually plays on the world stage. 

kropotkin1951

Sean in response to your last three pages of diatribe, blah, blah, blah.

Please talk about the issues and not how much you hate me, especially when you require multiple posts to do it.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sean in response to your last three pages of diatribe, blah, blah, blah.

Please talk about the issues and not how much you hate me, especially when you require multiple posts to do it.

Covers a lot more than that. But true- I don't feel like being bullied by you -- and I respond.  I am happy for any neutral person to evaluate the value of my posts in terms of content versus yours. 

I see your streak of responding to posts without actually engaging in their content continues,

kropotkin1951

I am pleased that today you have chosen to fight with a liberal instead of an anarchist. Continue on your crusade.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I am pleased that today you have chosen to fight with a liberal instead of an anarchist. Continue on your crusade.

I know you are posting across multiple threads today begging to be told to fuck yourself. Is this that necessary for you to get through the day? You are really working hard for this. I wonder what you might be capable of if you put this energy elsewhere.

kropotkin1951

Actually I am making fun of you because you can't stop arguing with people. At least I don't take three paragraphs to make a simple point. You are annoying in your attempts to shut down points of view that don't meet your purity test.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Actually I am making fun of you because you can't stop arguing with people. At least I don't take three paragraphs to make a simple point. You are annoying in your attempts to shut down points of view that don't meet your purity test.

This is your problem and our engagement always starts with you being a dick. Then you wonder when you stop being a dick for a day why I am not criticizing you. Then you go back to being a dick and what do you know? It is there again. I wonder why.

Don't you ahve anything better to do rather than chase me around the board to pick a fight with me because things were too quiet fot the last day when you were not engaging in assholishness?

Stop being a dick and I will stop attacking you? Deal?

NDPP

Bipartisan NAFTA 2.0 is Still Fatally Flawed (and vid)

https://therealnews.com/stories/bipartisan_umca_fatally_flawed

"Well, experts said that NAFTA 2.0 or the USMCA is 90% of the original NAFTA agreement. And that agreement was designed to benefit corporations. And I think we can say the same with this agreement as primarily going to benefit elites and giant corporations and is not going to help ordinary working people. One of the defining features of NAFTA is that it was used by corporations to threaten workers in all three countries, to agree to concessions and to threaten them that they're going to lose their job, that production will be moved to another place if they try to organize a union. And that hasn't changed at all..."

 

Trudeau Urges MPs to Move 'Resolutely and Rapidly' to Press North American Trade Deal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-liberal-caucus-retreat-parliame...

"...I look forward to debate on this in the House, I look forward to committees doing their work. But we need to make sure that we are moving resolutely and rapidly to put into reality this new NAFTA deal, that is so good for Canadians from coast to coast,' he said..."

See also #218

kropotkin1951

Actually Sean your problem is your think I care anything about you. I go  from forum to forum reading topics and posting when I feel like it. Please you may think you are the center of some universe but it certainly it is not mine. This thread is a perfect example of you disagreeing with something I didn't say but that you thought I meant by reading between the lines. I cannot help the fact that you misread many of my posts and then when I try to clarify you get even more wound up. I will not stop posting here because you think I am extreme quite frankly I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me just stop insulting me, okay?

NDPP

Trudeau: Stop the RATification of CUSMA (The New NAFTA)

https://secure.canadians.org/page/40638/action/1

Last chance for token resistance...

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

Kropotkin:

In your post to which Sean was responding, you said that our "mining companies are killing indiginous people around the world." I'm pretty sure the reason that they do that is because it's good for their own bottom line, not because they are saying Ready Aye Ready to Washington.

Now yes, the countries where the mining companies are doing this are probably ones in which there has already been a significant degree of western penetration, usually led by the USA. But that's not the same thing as saying that the mining companies need American prompting to do the things they do, after the initial western penetration has taken place.

 

 

I happen to agree with Sean and votd here. Canadian imperialism is a thing, Canada is an imperialist country in it's own right, and Canadian corporations engage in Canadian imperialism abroad. Kropotkin, when you argue that Canada is a US colony, you play into the hands of some on the left who mistakenly think that Canadian nationalism is 'progressive'.

kropotkin1951

NDPP wrote:

Trudeau: Stop the RATification of CUSMA (The New NAFTA)

https://secure.canadians.org/page/40638/action/1

Last chance for token resistance...

Thanks for the link NDPP. I just signed the petition. The Council of Canadians is one of the groups that has been fighting the good fight for decades. The Chapter in my area is suffering from generational burnout. The main active people are now aging seniors not young seniors so it is harder for them to carry on.

Sean in Ottawa

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Actually Sean your problem is your think I care anything about you. I go  from forum to forum reading topics and posting when I feel like it. Please you may think you are the center of some universe but it certainly it is not mine. This thread is a perfect example of you disagreeing with something I didn't say but that you thought I meant by reading between the lines. I cannot help the fact that you misread many of my posts and then when I try to clarify you get even more wound up. I will not stop posting here because you think I am extreme quite frankly I don't give a flying fuck what you think of me just stop insulting me, okay?

How bizarre. I was not thinking about you and yet you managed to go on here and post more than a half dozen posts trolling me. I thinknyou are obsessed with fighting. I don't imagine that it is much to do with me at all. I think you just needed to a have a fight today and crawled all over this site to pick one. You are really pathetic. Now you are trying to turn this on me despite all the incredible effort you took to provoke me after things were quiet.

Of course your comment that I was misreading is also strange since you called me out by name in each of those posts. 

Maybe just grab a drink and relax. Surely you had something else you could have been doing rather than spend some time posting just about me across multiple threads. And yes - most of those posts had absolutely no other value or content than provoking.

 

kropotkin1951

Left Turn wrote:

I happen to agree with Sean and votd here. Canadian imperialism is a thing, Canada is an imperialist country in it's own right, and Canadian corporations engage in Canadian imperialism abroad. Kropotkin, when you argue that Canada is a US colony, you play into the hands of some on the left who mistakenly think that Canadian nationalism is 'progressive'.

I am obviously not making myself clear so I'll try again. We have entered a new stage of global capitalism that has fully integrated the "national" elites into a global system that is clearly led by the US and its allies. When we were part of the Commonwealth in the 19th century we also belonged to a global imperial system where we were a colony while also being the colonizers and mainstay of the imperial order. I think that our elite play the same role in the new global imperial order. In the last two decades I believe there has been a major change and we have evolved into a system where Canadian corporations and banks are fully integrated into the US financial system and now in the last decade the Canadian military is fully integrated with the US system. I think our elite are the junior partners and that makes us a vassal state in my opinion. I don't think that the Trudeau/Freeland foreign policy are the actions of a independent country but the actions of a willing partner in the plunder of other peoples resources to enhance the wealth of the global billionaire class and the minions in places like Canada that make that happen live high on the hog.

Sean in Ottawa

The thing is without the extremes of the conversation, it would be possible to see that there is both a Canadian imperialism that is willful and independent of the US and an integration exactly along the lines Kropotkin lays out. My trouble with his characterization is not that I disagree that this dynamic exists but I do not think it describes the enitre story. I do not think that the objective is the integration. Rather integration is the means to enforce the objectives which are the same as those in the US. 

I think that Canadians support imperial corporate interests for the same selfish reasons US people do and not becuase anyone is making us. Our integration is not like that of a forced colony but more created out of a common set of priorities and willingness on our part. It is not an inferiority complex or desire to be colonized. (Many Canadians on the right would prefer to be a colony of the UK but find integration with the US provides a more sure right wing policy objective.

Drives to be closer to the US have often been initiated by like-minded Canadains and at times these Canadians who wanted closer ties had to work to get the attention and interest of the US which had other focuses. These were not drives to integrate with the US for its own sake but to use integration to achieve a right of centre reality in Canada.

In other words this is not some misplaced loyalty where we do what we do not want to do becuase we want to be loyal to the US or becuase they are making us. I think the dynamic is really driven by those here who want to behave like the US and are seeking to damage Canadian institutions in order to achieve those objectives.

Also to demonstrate this we can see that Canada does not just do what it is told but fails to make other choices when it clearly could. This comes from ideology not support for Canada as a colony.

I think Kropotkin has the motivations backwards in this characterization but he is so sold on the "ready aye ready" quote that he cannot move past it..

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Left Turn wrote:

I happen to agree with Sean and votd here. Canadian imperialism is a thing, Canada is an imperialist country in it's own right, and Canadian corporations engage in Canadian imperialism abroad. Kropotkin, when you argue that Canada is a US colony, you play into the hands of some on the left who mistakenly think that Canadian nationalism is 'progressive'.

I am obviously not making myself clear so I'll try again. We have entered a new stage of global capitalism that has fully integrated the "national" elites into a global system that is clearly led by the US and its allies. When we were part of the Commonwealth in the 19th century we also belonged to a global imperial system where we were a colony while also being the colonizers and mainstay of the imperial order. I think that our elite play the same role in the new global imperial order. In the last two decades I believe there has been a major change and we have evolved into a system where Canadian corporations and banks are fully integrated into the US financial system and now in the last decade the Canadian military is fully integrated with the US system. I think our elite are the junior partners and that makes us a vassal state in my opinion. I don't think that the Trudeau/Freeland foreign policy are the actions of a independent country but the actions of a willing partner in the plunder of other peoples resources to enhance the wealth of the global billionaire class and the minions in places like Canada that make that happen live high on the hog.

I have to disagree. The biggest Canadian companies function as economic empires in their own right, and the Canadian government supports governments around the globe that support the interests of these companies. I consider the actions of large Canadian companies abroad -- Most notably Canadian mining companies in Latin America and Africa, plus Canadian support of governments that provide a favourable business climate for these companies -- as Canadian imperialism.

It so happens that Canadian foreign policy also serves to further the interests of American imperialism, which mostly has similar interests to Canadian imperialism. But this does not mean that Canada is not an imperialist nation in it's own right.

I believe that it is entirely possible to defeat Canadian imperialism without defeating it's American counterpart. Your analysis would seem to suggest that this is not possible.

kropotkin1951

I think in the NATO sphere there is only one imperialism and it knows no national boundaries. According to Oxfam 2,153 billionaires have more wealth than 4.6 billion people. IMO we have arrived at a global feudal system where the "aristocracy" from around the world are all involved in plundering in their own domains. As Chomsky says it is like a gangland enterprise. So indeed the Canadian part of the mob has its own turf but that should not be confused with independence.

Sean in Ottawa

The WTO (outside the US) seems to be fighting back 17 countries inlcuding China, Canada, and the EU are setting up a dispute settlement mechanism along the lines of WTO rules to resolve disputes between themselves. This raises the risk that the US trade would have a penalty for thise persuing it. By itself it will not dampen exiting trade but it may make it harder for the US to expand trade. It opens more secure opportunities for countries other than the US to trade with each other while discouraging new deals with the US.

 

My analysis: For Canada, diversification is hard to achieve given the present deal we have and level of economic integration. However, if this slows US growth it might give Canada (in the future) a little more room and leverage than it has been on track for. In the past Canada was the largest trading partner - by far - with the US. Recently it has been in a three-way competition with China and Mexico. The trend toward fewer energy imports for the US mean that Canada's proportion of US trade would be expected to decline. This might delay the loss of leverage long enough for Canada to have some options or leverage on trade within the block to avoid some of the most devatating of US aggression. The worry of course would be that Canada opt for the latter rather than the former. Canada must use whatever wiggle room it has to pusue trade outside the US and more important rebuild any domestic trade assets it has to be less reliant. This is a tall order and only a small reprieve. The rest of the world might gain more form this of course.

NDPP

"This morning in the House of Commons, I introduced a Ways and Means Motion for the new NAFTA. I ask that all parliamentarians work together to put Canada and Canadians first and get this important work done without undue delay."

https://twitter.com/cafreeland/status/1221963347475750912

Another corporate-rule, ''investors rights', slave-collar to go around your necks Canuckleheads - remember way back when you used to protest these 'free-trade' deals? Now you hardly even notice 'em, right? Selling out gets easier the more you do it.  Or even better - just let your 'representatives' to do the selling out for you. And later when the SHTF you can claim you didn't know because they never told you. Isn't democracy swell!?

NDPP

Despair, Resolve Among Climate Activists Over USMCA Environmental Shortfalls

https://www.nationalnewswatch.com/2020/01/31/despair-resolve-among-clima...

"Climate activists in the United States are shaking their heads in disgust at the latest iteration of the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Prime Minister Justin Trudeau defended Friday as featuring some of the strongest environmental protections ever enshrined in a trade deal. [He lies!] 'A categorical failure, any way you slice it,' said Ben Beachy, director of the Sierra Club's Living Economy program. 'The final deal fails on seven out of seven core environmental priorities,' Beechy said. 'It's fail, fail, partial fail, fail, fail, fail, fail. That's the synopsis..."

And in Canada barely a protest against it from start to finish. With the usual nice liberal-left know-nothings telling us 'it could be worse' and 'besides we have no choice.' These are the voices of a country without any future decided here.

Sean in Ottawa

Interesting to see how the Canada-US free trade deal is being held up as a success story on the other side of the water.

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