Ukraine - closed

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Unionist wrote:

So please don't twist and distort my words for some weird purpose. If you haven't absorbed my point about how Canada must not interfere in the internal affairs of Ukraine - just go look at the thread I opened to make precisely that point.

Who's twisting what, Unionist?

I know what you wrote about the G20. And my comment wasn't a condemnation of the throne speech protest either; merely pointing out a discrepancy in how you're spinning this.

There was nothing in my post about Canadian interference, and although there is a comment from John Kerry at the bottom, the bulk of it is about Ukrainians dealing with the Ukrainian situation.

If some of them are thankful for international pressure, guess what: that is also their right. None of this happens in a vacuum, no matter how much some of us might want to selectively invoke that rule. And there is a difference between legitimate support, and exploitation.

And again, a handshake from John McCain doesn't change the fact that many of the far right protesters don't want any association with the west either. And before you tar them all with the same brush, you might want to take a closer look at who is doing what, and how many people in each group we are talking about.


For instance, the activist who was tortured and accused of being a spy was not a member of the far right. He was with AutoMaidan, and aligned most closedly with Klitschko's UDAR party.





How the West Manufactures 'Opposition Movements'  -  by Andre Vltchek

"More than a month ago, a bizarre deal was proposed, where European companies would be allowed to enter and clean Ukraine of all its natural resources, but the people of Ukraine would not be allowed to even come and work in the EU. The government, logically and sensibly rejected the deal...

Be aware of the 'uprisings' or 'anti-government protests'. Which one is genuine and which one is unnaturally created by imperialism and neo-colonialism."


Unionist wrote:
And in the case of the G20, I like others condemned the police repression. I also condemned the provocateurs who torched cars and smashed windows in an obvious attempt to: (a) serve the interests of the state; or (b) give vent to some peculiar ideology far removed from the wishes of the vast majority of Canadians; or (c) finish growing up.

By 'growing up' I take it that you mean finding some niche within the political establishment and running with it?  BTW, into which category, a, b, or c, would you assign the police car torching protesters from NB last year?


That was the only sentence in that entire article that had anything to do with Ukraine, NDPP.

And actually, if we are talking about international interference, I think we have to look not just at western pressure, but also at Russia's decision to withhold its funding to Ukraine until their issue of a new prime minister is settled.

Odd that Ukraine is forced into a position where they are having to be bailed out by Russia, considering that Russian gas exports flow through Ukraine.

And causing greater delays and friction at the Russian border? I'm sure that's going to make want opposition parties forget all about trade with the EU.



6079_Smith_W wrote:

That was the only sentence in that entire article that had anything to do with Ukraine, NDPP.


Better read it again, you seem to have missed a few things...


I waded though it again, NDPP (no small feat). There's plenty about Thailand, Egypt, Venezuela, Cuba, Congo, and other places, but on Ukraine, only two or three sideways references trying to equate it with those situations. And aside from that sentence, nothing else directly about Ukraine at all.


wage zombie

Unionist wrote:

The Yanukovych government was democratically elected in 2010. If some Ukrainians can't wait till 2015 - and if they want to use Molotov cocktails and other means to lobby (or replace) the government - then surely that's their right. We have no right to interfere. 

That seems pretty clear to me, and isn't inconsistent with Canadians supporting protests in Canada.

Unionist wrote:

The more I read about the protests in Ukraine, the less sympathy I have for their "cause". The fact that unregenerate nazis, fascists, Banderists, and anti-Semites are part of that movement has, I'll admit, prejudiced me against them. I certainly hope they stay safe and don't suffer the same bloody end as my family did - you know, the victims of their forebears. That would be so sad. Losing an ear. Tragic.

That is interesting to me, because it is different than my take.  The more I read about the protests in Ukraine, the greater sense I get that it is not about the Russian faction vs the EU faction, but that it is a people's movement against a repressive government.

Maybe this is influenced by talking with some of my friends who grew up there who recently visited.  They grew up in Ukraine but they speak Russian and identify as Russian.  They went last summer and it sound spretty dire over there (they are barely able to talk about it at all).

I agree that Canada should not be interfering.


Ukraine on Brink as Turmoil Hits Currency

"Ukraine is on the brink of economic disaster as its currency plunges to a four-year low amid political turmoil and a tug-of-war between Russia and the European Union.

The Ukrainian currency -- the hryvnia -- which is pegged to the value of the US dollar, has plunged because the central bank is running out of foreign currency reserves.

Catherine Ashton, the EU's top representative on foreign policy, said the EU was ready to give further support to help resolve the crisis provided Ukraine signs up for an IMF program of reform."


Canada Keeps Wary Eye on Ukraine: Baird

"Baird reiterated the government's position that Ukraine faces a prosperous economic future if it embraces Europe, instead of bowing to its old Soviet Union master..."


Ukraine and the Pro-Imperialist  Intellectuals  -  by Alex Lantier

"...It is Ukraine - with its energy pipeline network, strategic military bases and heavy industry - that is emerging as a major prize in an aggressive thrust by US and European imperialism to plunder the region and target Russia.

While US and European imperialism threaten to attack Moscow's main Middle East allies Syria and Iran, they are threatening Russia's main Eastern European ally, Ukraine, with regime change."


US and EU Wade Deeper in Ukraine Standoff With an 'Aid' Package

"Exactly who is going to be aided by this package? It very clearly is not the Ukrainian people. But then this was never, ever about what was good for the Ukraine or her people..."


Russian Offical Accuses US of Fueling Ukraine Crisis (and vid)

"According to our information, American sources spend $20 million a week on financing the opposition and rebels, including weapons. We have information that the militants are briefed on the territory of the US Embassy..."


Global Gas Grab - Solidarity Ukraine Style

"Ukraine is not only the latest battlefield in the North Atlantic's attempts to stem the rising tide of BRICS economic influence. It is also the site of a contentious civil society resisting government repression..."


Maidan Puppets: 'FUCK THE EU'- Snr US State Department Official Caught in Alleged Phone Chat on Ukraine (and vid)

"The leaked chat fuels earlier allegations that Washington is heavily meddling in the Ukrainian political crisis by manipulating the pro-EU opposition and helping it in its efforts to oust President Viktor Yanukovich.

Victoria Nuland: 'That would be great I think to help glue this thing and have the UN glue it and you know, 'fuck the EU'...



So two Americans want to influence what is going on there, and they seem to want to talk to Fatherland, UDAR, and even Yanukovich. Sounds like a good diplomatic strategy of not keeping all the eggs in one basket.

How is that surprising, or how does it justify the "puppets" comment? Sounds like they are trying to persuade, not give marching orders.

One thing of note is that they said nothing about talking to Svoboda, or any of the right-wing street gangs that the U.S. is supposedly controlling.In fact, they specifically talked about trying to push them to the sidelines.

And I'm also not sure where this leaves the conspiracy theory about the U.S. being part of the plot to drive Ukraine into the clutches of the EU.

Of course it's embarrassing; no diplomat wants to have in camera conversations leaked. But a smoking gun?  I think the most embarrassing thing is the word "fuck". Yanukovich has already invited Yatsenyuk to be prime minister (and he has refused) so them talking about wanting the European favourite - Klitschko - sidelined is hardly conspiracy to overthrow.

On the other hand:


Separately on Thursday, a senior Kremlin aide accused the United States of arming Ukrainian "rebels" and warned Russia could intervene to maintain the security of its neighbour.




Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:


Separately on Thursday, a senior Kremlin aide accused the United States of arming Ukrainian "rebels" and warned Russia could intervene to maintain the security of its neighbour.

Sure why not, and while the Russian army is at it they may as well take back Belarus as well.Undecided





for serious information, Canadian Bohdan Nahajlo worth following on Facebook


Angela Merkel condemns EU insult


However, state department spokeswoman Jen Psaki suggested that the tape could have been leaked by Moscow, noting that a senior Russian official was one of the first to draw attention to the audio.

"We think this is a new low in Russian tradecraft. This is something they've been actively promoting, posting on, tweeting about," she said.

Why, those low-down, sneaky Russians. Next thing you know, they'll be tapping her phone.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LIKE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


US Says 'F--- 'em all, Here's the New Ukrainian Government!'


Nuland Apologized, But Didn't Mention US Plans to Midwife A New Govt in Ukraine'

"...She has apologized for a comment that she is not admitting she made, which is itself a confirmation that the comment was indeed made. But what she hasn't apologized for is the plan to midwife a new government in Ukraine.

Consider who is funding these rebels and protesters, where the logistics are coming from. They say 'OK; we need an international personality to visit' and there is an international personality. They say 'We need a high government official identified by name to bless it.' and he does exactly that.

There is obvious evidence confirming what is going on there. Considering that there have been pamphlets found among the rioters, there are exact replicas that have been used previously in Serbia and in Egypt, offered by the people who are on the pay roll of the US government through various non governmental institutions...Again it's not very difficult to piece the picture together."


US 'Ukraine-Gate' Threatens To Blow Up Into Major Conflagration

"This is a major international scandal, and the implications of this clear evidence of direct US involvement in civil unrest in Ukraine are much more serious than most in the US and EU realize.

Caught red-handed actively planning and manipulating internal politics and acting as if Ukrainian opposition politicians were literally US agents to be ordered into this position or that in a new government, the US State Department behaved as a child with his hand discovered in the cookie jar..."


Washington Destabilizes Ukraine -  by Paul Craig Roberts

"Of all the violent protests that we have been witness to, the Ukrainian one is the most orchestrated...Nuland is incensed that the European Union has not joined Washington in imposing sanctions on the Ukrainian government in order to complete Washington's takeover of the Ukraine.

Nuland speaks as if she is God with the God-given right to select the government of Ukraine, which she proceeds to do..."


What About Apologizing To Ukraine, Mrs Nuland?

"In short, it turned out that US officials were coordinating their actions on how to install a puppet government in Ukraine..."


Ukraine, Another Operation Regime Change

"Quite often, history does not provide good choices. The issue is not whether President Yanukovich is a nice guy. The question is about the constellation of forces seeking to overthrow him.

Clearly we have a regime change operation in progress in Ukraine. It is backed by the West and is in alliance with the extreme right.

It is also part of a larger agenda to contain Russia. The slogan may be democracy, as it was in Syria, Libya and Iraq. The reality is expanding the Empire.

Which makes all independent powers - from Iran to Russia -



US Response to Leaked Call Confirms US/EU Regime-Change Plot in Ukraine   -  by Alex Lantier

"Far from 'helping the people of Ukraine' to establish a democratic government, they are engaged in secret, back-channel maneuvers with far-right parties to violently impose a fascistic pro-imperialist puppet regime on the Ukrainian people."


BTS: Hijacking Ukraine's Revolution (and vid)

"In this episode of Breaking the Set, Abby Martin remarks on the latest State Department scandal involving Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland discussing a regime-change strategy with US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt..."


Fake Images in Ukraine

"The images of a naked Ukrainian prisoner in the snow, surrounded by police forces taunting him, has been spread around the world. They show the brutality of the regime that the glorious activists of Maidan Square are trying to overcome.

There is only one problem..."


Maidan Activists Trained by NATO in 2006

"A group of young Maidan Square protesters, members of the Nazi organization Ukrainian People's Self-Defense (UNA-UNSO), were trained in NATO terrorist camps in Estonia in 2006. The training included manufacturing and handling of explosives as well as shooting.

These young people went to fight alongside Georgian forces during their aggression against South Ossetia."




What Cold War? This Cold War: Death Follows McCain to the Ukraine as the Armenia Ultimatum to Screw Over Russia, Fails Again (and vid)

"What's going on in Ukraine is an economic proxy war that has turned sour.."


Are there any actual sources for those voltairenet pieces? They're getting plenty of circulation, all link back to the voltairenet piece, and there are no corroborating sources other than the original vremia piece, which also has no sources.

Is there anything identifying that police officer as who they say it is or is it just someone who bears a resemblance? And if it was him, why would he let himself be filmed like that?

In fact, the only reference to "Andrei Dubrovik" in google is that voltairenet piece.

As for that second piece, who are those people, what relation at all do they have to Ukraine, and what is the source?

I have seen voltairenet pieces posted before. None has piqued my interest enough to actually check out what they were all about:

Besides Kharkov News Agency has a different story for explaining the incident: apparently they weren't torturing him; they were stopping him from setting himself on fire. That's more believable, isn't it?






Actually I searched his name in cyrillic, and found him. Here's a picture of the real Andrei Dubrovik, in a story in which he denies the person in the video was him.

Google translate:

"The site posted photos lieutenant who really like me, but he's younger than me, and visually see that it is not me. Misrepresented the real me, and I want to file a complaint with the court and the prosecutor's office," - said the ex-special forces "Alpha" .



Journalistic Malpractice & the Danger of Russia-Bashing

"While the media spotlight is on Sochi, other places and events in the world demand our attention. Ukraine is in political deadlock and is teetering on the brink of becoming a failed state. Western audiences are told it is all 'Putin's fault'. The fact is we have irrefutable evidence ('Nulandgate') Washington is stoking the flames of division in Ukraine. Before the violence in Kiev, Russia called for trilateral consultations involving Ukraine, the EU and Russia.

Needless to say, mainstream media is reluctant to inform its audiences of this. Instead, the narrative invented and spread by the Western mainstream is how the West wants to save Ukraine from its 'evil neighbor'. This is a recipe for disaster - and possibly (though completely unnecessary) conflict involving the West and Russia..."


CrossTalk: Nuland's Cookies (and vid)

"How will Victoria Nuland's embarassing leak impact the political battlefield in Ukraine? CrossTalking with Alexander Mercouris, Nebojsa Malic and Taras Kuzio..."


Ukraine President Agrees to Coalition Govt (and vid)

"Ukraine President Vicktor Yanukovych has agreed to appoint a coalition government with participation of opposition leaders..."

howeird beale

NDPP wrote:

Ukraine President Agrees to Coalition Govt


So does that make HIM a nazi ???!!!???


my 4th International Bolshevik Machine supercomputer is overheating

...illogical... error... error!... ILLOGICAL!! ERROR!! ERROR!! processing processing ERROR!! ERROR!! proshessshhhing prossssshhhhesssssssinnnnng eeehhhrrrrruuuuuuurrrrrr





Talks Between Ukrainian Govt, Opposition Fail as 25 Killed in Kiev Unrest (and vid)

Live UPDATES, Live Feed from Central Kiev

"At least 25 people have been killed in Kiev as the Ukrainian capital plunges back into chaos..."


The Geopolitics of Ukraine's Schism  -  by Immanuel Wallerstein

"Let me therefore propose that Ukraine is merely a convenient excuse or proxy for a larger geopolitical division that has nothing whatsoever to do with its internal schism..."


Ukraine: US's Revenge on Russia For Halting War Against Syria

"US attmpts to influence situation in Ukraine are desire to take revenge for defeat in Syria - Pushkov

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Or... this could be the work of Russian agents to give Russia an excuse to occupy the Ukraine (after the Olympics of course).


Canada Closes Embassy in Kiev as Ukrainian Violence Escalates

"Canada strongly supports the Ukrainian people in their fight for a free and democratic Ukraine,' Mr Baird said in his statement."


Ukraine Conflict Spinning Out of Control: James Jatras (and vid)

"There is no indication I saw that the police are the ones who initiated this attack but rather the protesters..."


Kiev: Masks of Revolution (and vid)

"RT's crew managed to visit both sides of the barricades to hear from residents of the Ukraine.."


Clashes in Ukraine Signal Escalation of US-EU Intervention

"The US and German responses signal an intensification of the imperialist drive to install a puppet regime in Kiev and transform the Ukraine into a bastion for further provocations and intrigues aimed at dismembering Russia itself and reducing it to a dependent semi-colony..."




howeird beale

After starving seven Million Ukrainians to death, I think it would be in good taste for Russia to shut the fuck up about this topic.


Ukraine's President, Opposition Agree To A Truce (and vid)

"However the far-right of the Ukraineian opposition refuses to observe the truce. The leader of Right Sector said the group did not sign any agreements and called for the continuation of the 'offensive of the resurgent people.'

US President Barack Obama and Canadian PM Stephen Harper reacted cautiously to the news of the truce in Ukraine, stressing that the will continue to monitor the situation closely."


'Ukraine is Just A Stepping Stone in Europe's Global Game'

"It's very close to a civil war steered from the outside and it reminds me of Syria where the US is threatening a no-fly zone...humanitarian concerns will be quoted by the US and Germany to interfere further.

So we have a situation where Russia is prudent, but one thing is very clear - and this is a most important issue. The Ukrainian government has to address the rightful wishes of the people of Ukraine.

That has nothing to do with this kind of bloody interference and unless we see very intelligent and wise steps by the government to address these woes, unless we have that, we cannot have a solution for the Ukrainian situation no matter what."


Ukraine Truce Fails Rioters Renew Offensive in Kiev, Death Toll Rises to 35 [Now 64 - Health Ministry] LIVE UPDATES (and vid)

"The protesters are openly using fire-arms against the Berkut [special Forces] wrote the Interior Ministry in a statement..."


Radical Protesters in Ukraine Neo Nazis: Analyst (and vid)

"Extremist nationalist groups are sparing no efforts to seize power in Ukraine. They hope to come to power on the back of these extremists and one more terrible thing is the fact that the EU [AND CANADA!] supports these nationalists,' said the analyst."


Democracy Now: A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates (and vid)


* "....What comes as a double surprise is the latest news that ambassadors of several EU-member states, the US and Canada have paid another visit to Maidan to meet Pravy Sektor activists and...'the headquarters of national resistance'...RT News #62

Ghislaine"Snipers stalk protesters in Ukraine as Kiev hotel becomes makeshift morgue":

[quote]The vanguard of Ukraine's insurrection broke through riot police lines on Thursday morning in a hail of gunfire that left at least 10 dead. They advanced up the steps and across a blazing metal bridge to the south of Independence Square. Behind white sandbags close to a yellow and white theatre, at least two police marksmen aimed rifles with telescopic sights and opened fire.

A few hundred metres to their rear, by the metro station on Instytutska Street, lurked another brace of police snipers training their guns on the marauding youngsters who, on Thursday at least, routed the police, the special Berkut units and interior ministry troops massed in their thousands.

"They're shooting at the people with Kalashnikovs," said Ruslan Koshulansky, an opposition leader from the Svoboda or Freedom party of Ukrainian nationalists. There was little doubt about that. Amid the deafening din of percussion and smoke grenades fired from police lines, there was also the specific quickfire rattle of automatic weapons.

At the back of the towering Soviet-era Ukraina Hotel, a large window was perforated by four perfectly round bullet holes. Protesters' flak jackets also betrayed the evidence of live rounds. But it was the dead who most starkly indicated the sinister turn of events in the battle for Kiev: the open use of live weapons and the deployment of police snipers to sow fear and terror.




After what has happened this week the current Ukrainian president has no future as leader of his country. 


Cannonfire: Ukraine

"God damn but the propagandists are hitting us hard. We haven't seen a blitzkrieg like this since 2003 and the run-up to the Iraq misadventure. (Although we did see something similar when Assad was accused, probably falsely of using CBWs against the rebels in Syria)

Both The New Republic and George Will are beating the same war drum. You know mayhem is at hand when mainstream 'liberals' and establishment conservatives get with the rhythm..."


EU Ministers Face 'Night of Difficult Negotiations' With Ukrainian Leaders, Oposition (and vid)

"This is brother fighting brother', said Iryna, a local woman walking to Independence Square to donate syringes for blood transfusions. 'We need to realize we're all one people.

Kviv residents emptied bank machines of cash and stockpiled groceries, with many staying off the streets. 'Would you go out if there were snipers on the roofs of your city? This is essentially war,' Iryna said."




Embattled Ukraine: Kiev's Vicious Cycle of Violence Rages On (LIVE UPDATES)

Friday, February 21

"At least 75 people have died in the street violence..'

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

The contradictions of the Euromaidan uprising

Editor’s Note: Now that the mass protests against the pro-Russian government of Viktor Yanukovych have escalated into open revolt in the Europe-oriented West of the country, and now that Kiev is witnessing scenes of outright civil war — with many dozens left dead after another bloody day of gun-fighting between government forces and opposition militia — a proper understanding of the nature of the Euromaidan revolt seems more important than ever.

In this extensive interview, revolutionary syndicalist Denis — who is a member of the Autonomous Workers’ Union in Kiev — provides some invaluable insights into the class composition of the protests, the role of nationalist, far-right and neo-Nazi groups in the mobilizations, the political economic background against which they are taking place, and the way in which the left should insert itself into this profound political crisis while avoiding support for either the murderous government or the far-right and neo-Nazi opposition.


Denis: Yes, your account is more or less correct. But you should understand that from the very beginning people had a very peculiar understanding of “Europe”. They pictured a very utopian ideal – society without corruption, with high wages, social security, rule of law, honest politicians, smiling faces, clean streets, etc. – and called it “EU”. And when one tried to tell them that actual EU has nothing to do with this pretty picture, that people there actually burn EU flags and protest against austerity etc. – they retorted: “So would you better live in Russia then?” So, yes, from the very beginning the protest was driven by the false consciousness of “civilizational choice”, by nationalist ideological patterns which didn’t leave any room for the class agenda. These are the results of the bourgeois cultural hegemony, in Gramscian terms, and this is the main problem we should fight in this country over next years (or even decades).

But “Europe” was never actually the main aim of the protesters. Anti-government and anti-Russian sentiments were much stronger, so they naturally overtook the pro-EU rhetoric after the police crackdown of December 1, and now most people hardly even remember what the initial cause of the demonstrations was. Many people agree that the very term Euromaidan is already anachronistic. The far right groups, which initially had to hide their traditional attitude to the “liberal decaying EU” in order to infiltrate the protests, now openly state that they don’t care about the EU and only want a regime change. This sentiment is accepted in the wide circles of the protesters....


Election now scheduled for May 25

Ukraine protests: Parliament votes to oust Viktor YanukovychElection set for May 25; ex-PM Yulia Tymoshenko freed


Presidential Impeachment Bill Introduced in Ukrainian Parliament (and vid)

"...Even though the deal was signed thousands are still protesting in central Kiev. Rioters are now in full control of Kiev's government district. They have taken over parliament, the president's administration quarters, the cabinet, and the Interior Ministry, protesters told"


'US Blaming Ukrainian Authorities For Violence is Catastrophic Move' (and vid)

"...It's a catastrophic move, it's a revolutionary move. There are far greater dangerous implications to this than anybody in Washington or Western Europe seems to realize. It is placing the European Union and the United States on the side of revolutionary chaos and disorder not just in other countries around the world, which would be bad enough, but in the heartland of Europe.

This is very dangerous..."


CrossTalk: Kiev's Agony (and vid)

"Why has the situation in Kiev become so violent and dangerous? And is Ukraine heading toward civil war? CrossTalking with Marcus Papadopoulos, Robert Oulds and Ariel Cohen."


The so-called "issue" at hand might be which empire is going to loan Ukraine debt money?

But maybe Ukraine is being used in a proxy war, or to distract from a proxy war, between the United States and Russia.


The Collapse of Ukraine’s Brief Hope for Peace?

President Yanukovych flees Kiev as protesters take control of his palace.

How far will Putin go to regain his grip?

And will Obama try to stop him?


Ukraine: The Brown (Shirt) Revolution - Prof Francis Boyle

"It is a fact that since 9-11-2001, the US Government has been in the business of destroying countries and using NATO as its principle instrument. That was stated more than a decade ago by the US Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and later by General Wesley Clark.

The Pentagon drew up a list of 7 states that were to be destroyed: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Syria and they have systematically proceeded to destroy off of the countries on the list.

The strategy in Ukraine is the same, US/NATO/EU are promoting the destabilization and the breakup of Ukraine in order to achieve the NATO goal of moving into Ukrainian territory closer to Russia..."


Dangerous situation indeed.

Russia Stung By Ally Yanukovych's Defeat in Ukraine


CIJA: UJA Jewish Ukraine Crisis Fund - Donate Now

"UJA of greater Toronto has launched the Jewish Ukraine Crisis Fund..."



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