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Watson: I will vote for your deal, Theresa – if you put it to the people

Tom Watson is set to announce that he will vote for Theresa May’s Brexit deal as long as she agrees to hold another referendum.

In a keynote speech at the Put It To The People march on Saturday, the deputy Labour leader will say: “I have an explicit message for Theresa May: I will vote for your deal or a revised deal you can agree with my party.

“I will help you get it over the line to prevent a disastrous no deal exit. But I can only vote for your deal – or any deal – if you let the people have a vote on it too.”....

NDPP

A Petition Against the People

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/03/22/a-petition-against-the-people/

"The petition to revoke Article 50 is a terrible spectacle. We have to reckon with the incredible, discomfiting fact that a significant number of people in the UK would like to see democracy overthrown. Make no mistake: that's what we're dealing with here.

How tragic that now, in 21st-century Britain, a petition is being made for the disenfranchisement of the public. Everyone who has signed this petition should be ashamed of themselves."

NDPP

George Galloway: TMOATS, March 22, 2019 (podcast)

https://talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1553281200

Opening monologue on Brexit begins @ 05: 45

"I watched Sky News last night. I watched abject national humiliation turn into abject international humiliation. I saw svelte, well-fed, well-watered multi-millionaire bureaucrats that run the EU. I watched them diplomatically reduce, diminish, humiliate my country. And I've had enough.

I've had enough of the endless perigrinations over the leaving of a trading block, which we joined without a referendum in 1973, and which was supposed to be a common market but which has become steadily over my lifetime, a hydra-headed, grotesque, ugly, antidemocratic, super-state. I'm not prepared to live in such a state.

It's because I love democracy, where the people rule, that I cannot accept that a decision made by 17.5 million people, the largest number of people ever to vote for anything or anyone in our entire history of democracy can be set aside by a lobby and lobbyists growing fat on their lobbying. I cannot accept MPs deciding whatever the people decided or thought the people were wrong and therefor the MPs will decide what we get. Because there are certain unassailable facts that will never change.

The British government and parliament decided to give the British people a referendum and told them that the government and parliament would abide by the result. This is a fact which cannot be changed. And when the referendum came and went and the decision was made, the parliament in overwhelming numbers, at least two-thirds or more, voted to trigger Article 50, to begin the ineluctable, unstoppable process of leaving the European Union.

Moreover, when the General Election was so foolishly and peremptorily called by Theresa May, both of the major parties, both Labour and Conservatives, explicitly, not implicitly - explicitly - accepted the results of the referendum and said that they would implement it. 

Both parties, which attracted 80% of the votes in the election of 2017, promised in their Manifestos that they would accept and respect the results of the referendum. And implement it. And these facts too, can never be changed however much money is spent to obscure, to obfuscate and to lie about these essential facts.

So this is no longer about Brexit. This is about democracy. It's about whether the people's will can be set aside by vested interests with enormous wealth and power. Tony Blair, Alistair Campbell and all the fat-cats that vainly try to persuade you through 'Project Fear' that you must back the EU. All of them are sucking on the teet of vested interest. And the vested interests in this case, are the richest people on both sides of the Atlantic and the richest people on the mainland of the continent of Europe.

The fact that they are all so desperate that you should remain in the European Union should tell you something, shouldn't it? Shouldn't it tell  you something that every banker in the city of London wants you to remain in the European Union? Every fat-cat in Brussels wants you to remain in the European Union? The multi-national American banks plowed millions into persuading you that you must remain in the European Union. Why do you think they did that? Because they care about your life?

Leaving the European Union is not a sufficient condition for making our country better but it is a necessary condition. We have no future in the EU. If you didn't think that in 2016, surely you know it now? Surely, you've seen the way they have behaved - these gangsters, these Sopranos in better suits over there in Brussels that are twisting and turning and yes, blackmailing you, your country, your government, your parliament,  your prime minister.

We already voted. And we're not going to vote again. And we're not going to go away until the results of our vote are implemented..."

nicky

One million people are marching against Brexit today in London.

Are you one of them Ken?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit

Or are you marching with Farage?

Fromage not Farage

nicky

 4h4 hours ago

More

Thousands of marchers chanting “where’s Jeremy Corbyn” - complete absence of leadership from the Labour Leader on the Brexit crisis

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1109438474795532289

josh

nicky wrote:

One million people are marching against Brexit today in London.

Are you one of them Ken?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit

Or are you marching with Farage?

Fromage not Farage

Why would he march in support of something he, and the majority voted against.

Bangers, not bankers.

josh

nicky wrote:

 4h4 hours ago

More

Thousands of marchers chanting “where’s Jeremy Corbyn” - complete absence of leadership from the Labour Leader on the Brexit crisis

 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1109438474795532289

Head of PR for the SNP.

NDPP

"People who support the EU have the right to campaign and march today. But the undemocratic 'People's Vote' organisation is a comeback vehicle for Blairite war criminals who delivered illegal war. Don't be used. Criminals should not be platformed whatever platitudes they spout."

https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1109398084294008832

 

"If you are a socialist and you are marching with people like this, then maybe you are on the wrong march."

'Put it to the people' indeed...

https://twitter.com/BrianHTweed/status/1109360494744240128

nicky

Gosh, NDPP, I never realized there were one million war criminals marching today!

who wudda known?

nicky
Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

One million people are marching against Brexit today in London.

Are you one of them Ken?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit

Or are you marching with Farage?

Fromage not Farage

I don't live in the UK. And you know perfectly well I despise Farage and his agenda.  I'd have voted Remain-as Corbyn did, after doing everything he could possibly have done to stop the Leave victory, but what's done is done.  The only possibilities are soft Brexit or no-deal Brexit.   You are only obsessing on this issue because you care more about removing Corbyn from the leadership and restoring Blairite domination within Labour than you do about defeating the Tories.

 

Aristotleded24

Why were people who voted "leave" any more misinformed than "remainers?"-Jonathan Pie

Quote:
It's too f***** easy to say that more people voted differently to me because they didn't know what the f*** they were talking about than it is to admit to ourselves that we lost the debate because we weren't persuasive enough

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
One million people are marching against Brexit today in London.

Are you one of them Ken?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/gallery/2019/mar/23/fromage-not-farage-best-placards-peoples-vote-march-brexit

Or are you marching with Farage?

Fromage not Farage

So by that logic, we must all be fascists because Donald Trump was against the Iraq war and in many aspects campaigned on cutting back US military adventurism abroad?

nicky

Ah, Aristotle, where were you when Ken proclaimed that I was an imperialist warmonger because I had a good word to say about TOM Mulcair, or because , together with a vast majority of Britons, I think Corbyn is a dismal leader?

perhaps you can apply your Aristotelian logic to that non sequitor?

and Ken, are you serious in pretending that Corbyn did all he could to oppose “leave” in the referendum? That certainly wasn’t the view of 80% of Labour MPs or any number of commentators who described Corbyn’s efforts with words like half-hearted, begrudging, desultory and lip-service.

are you as serious in that dubious assertion as you are in maintaining that Corbyn bears absolutely no responsibility for his overwhelming unpopularity?

Corbyn has been a Brexiterfor decades and even now is trying to frustrate the new referendum favoured by 70% of Labour voters.

nicky

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

  • Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
  • In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
  • Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.

josh

What’s your point?  One can say that’s it’s a tribute to his leadership that he’s willing to put his personal feelings aside for the good of the party, while at the same time adhering to the decision of the people.

nicky

Sorry you find my point obscure Josh.

it is to contradict Ken’s Trumpian misstatement that Corbyn did “ everything he could possibly have done to stop the Leave victory.”

josh

You think had he embraced neo-liberalism and wrapped himself in the EU flag, or whatever it has, it would have changed the result?  People voted on the issue, not on what their leaders told them to do.

nicky

You are probably right Josh that Corbyn’s personal ambivalence was not decisive. Especially given the level of disrespect in which he is held.

But, things might have been different if he had allowed Labour’s machine to weigh in unambiguously for remain.

NDPP

The Left Case Against the EU/Aaron Bustani Meets Costas Lapavitsas

https://youtu.be/PFnrWbo6uJA

"The EU is now basically a neo-liberal machine that imposes market discipline and serves the interests of big business against labour..."

'Ah, well that's the position for me.' - some babblers.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture
josh

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

NDPP

Labour Leave: Full Interview w Costas Lapavitsas *Must Hear*

https://youtu.be/n8IBJCmTiuU

"So if the Labour Party wants a radical strategy -  as it should - If it wants to change and transform British society- as it should - then it should be in favour of Brexit. And that to me is the meaning of Brexit - really the only Brexit that makes sense and the only Brexit that is coherent and what people want.

The EU faces an existential crisis, with the biggest crisis in its core. It's stagnant. In big trouble. From now on it's only a question of managing its own instability and decline..." 

nicky

Just what kind of “leave” did the public vote for Josh? Hard, soft, customs union! Canada style, Norway style, backstop or hard border?

josh

They voted to leave.  Leave means leave, whether by deal or not.  Enough with the anti-democratic obstructionism.

NDPP

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

Majority voted leave. It's a done deal. Leave means leave. 

iyraste1313

UK Coup Erupts: Theresa May Cabinet In Revolt, Plotting Her Imminent Overthrow

 

Theresa May may have days, if not hours, left as prime minister of the UK following a full-blown cabinet coup on Saturday night as senior ministers moved to oust the UK prime minister and replace her with her deputy, David Lidington.

According to the Sunday Times, following a "frantic series of private telephone calls", senior ministers agreed the prime minister must announce she is standing down, warning that she has become a toxic and “erratic” figure whose judgment has "gone haywire."

The plotters reportedly plan to confront May at a cabinet meeting on Sunday and demand that she announces she is quitting. If she refuses, they will threaten mass resignations or publicly demand her head. The "conspirators" were locked in talks late on Saturday to try reach a consensus deal on a new prime minister so there does not have to be a protracted leadership contest....

So who will our oligarchs replace Trudeau with?

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

iyraste1313 wrote:

So who will our oligarchs replace Trudeau with?

The smart money seems to be on Chrystia Freeland.

JKR

josh wrote:

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

JKR

NDPP wrote:

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

Majority voted leave. It's a done deal. Leave means leave. 

It’s already been extended once.

josh

JKR wrote:

josh wrote:

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

That was never made a condition of the vote, and what does that even mean.  Beneficial to whom?  How is beneficial measured?

This refusal to accept the results of the vote is not only contemptuous of democracy, but dangerous.  How do you think a lot of the voters who voted leave will react if they get double crossed?  In their, justifiable, bitterness, they could very well make Tommy Robinson PM.  Is staying in the EU worth that?

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

  • Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
  • In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
  • Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.

Corbyn made more appearances for the Remain side in the referendum than any other Labour politician-including any of the Labour politicians who've spent the last four years slandering him with false accusations that he doesn't care about anti-Semitism.  He didn't make a passionate case for Remain because a passionate case for Remain doesn't exist.   It's a mundanely decent institution on the questions of immigration rights and opposition to bigotry, but it's hopelessly reactionary in its insistence on perpetual austerity among EU nations and in its barbaric treatment of Greece.  And it's simply wrong to argue that everybody in Labour who wants the party to carry on the unwinnable fight for a referendum to reverse Brexit is against Corbyn as leader.    

I didn't say you were an imperialist because you support Mulcair-although, with his pro-corporate, anti-peace foreign policy views, a strong case can be made that he is an imperialist-is it even possible to be a hawk on foreign policy and war spending and have any right to claim to be antiimperialist?-I was saying that because, to want Corbyn dumped as Labour leader-unless you'd want him replaced with John McDonnell, which would be fine-it means you want Labour led by someone who is an unquestioning supporter of the status quo in UK foreign policy-which can only mean you want Labour led by someone who still thinks the Anti-Muslim wars are right and should be carried on and that you want Trident replaced, even though the costs of replacing it make it virtually impossible to carry out any distinctly Labour domestic policies. 

If you were just against Corbyn as an individual, that would be fine.  But you also clearly want his supporters kicked out of the party and the restoration of the way things were run before that-even though the pre-Corbyn status quo had led to to bad electoral defeats and virtually guaranteed a third would follow.

The EU doesn't matter more than full employment, human equality, a peaceful foreign policy, and the election of a government that fights all forms of bigotry and strives for climate justice.  None of Corbyn's policies are wrong or unpopular, and nothing to the right of his policies is going to make Labour more popular.  Labour has to have a massive turnout of the young to win, and that massive turnout can't be achieved under any leader you would approve of.

Ken Burch

nicky wrote:

You are probably right Josh that Corbyn’s personal ambivalence was not decisive. Especially given the level of disrespect in which he is held.

But, things might have been different if he had allowed Labour’s machine to weigh in unambiguously for remain.

He didn't stop-or at that point even have the ability to stop-"Labour's machine" from weighing in unambiguously in favor of the EU.  It's also not possible to be an unambiguous supporter of the EU and have socialist values.

What was Corbyn supposed to do?  Deny that the immiseration of the North and Northeast of England caused by EU policies had anything to do with support for Remain?  Was he supposed to tell those left to rot in those areas to "suck it up, snowflake!"  

Those were the voters who needed to be persuaded to back Remain.  There was nothing in the status quo that could possibly induce them to do so.  What do you think "Labour's machine" could have said, but that Corbyn somehow stopped them saying-and stopped them saying at a time when much of said "machine" was controlled by those in the party who were refusing to accept that Corbyn had won the leadership fair and square and that the greater good of the party required them to get fully behind him-that would somehow magically have persuaded these people that the misery the EU had inflicted on them wasn't actually real?

And why do you not indict the same right-wing anti-Corbyn "machine" for not doing what they SHOULD have done and called for an all out fight to rid the EU of its mandatory austerity requirements?  Why do you not call out Corbyn's opponents in the party for refusing to see that the issue was poverty and hardship, was despair about the future, and committing themselves to a battle for change within the EU?  For the love of God, do you believe the Blairite/Tory-controlled Remain campaign was flawless?  That it bore no responsibility at all for the result?

Ken Burch

BTW, Corbyn never said the Remain campaign should have presented arguments in support of Leave-what he said, and he was guilty of no crime other than honesty in saying this-was that the others in the Remain campaign should have acknowledged that there were and are valid issues with the EU status quo, that it should have admitted the EU needs to change.  What possible problem is there with that?

Remain didn't lose because it's campaign wasn't loud enough, strident enough, or dishonest enough.  It's not as though the voters would have chosen Remain if only Corbyn had sounded like an arrogant, dismissive jerk in arguing for it.  And no good was going to come of refusing to accept that there are legitimate grievances with the EU and how it is run.

It sounds as though you'd have wanted Corbyn to campaign for Remain in the way an American tourist in Paris communicates with waiters and hotel desk clerks: not by making any attempts to speak French, but by shouting at them over and over again, in a continually louder and more pompous tone of voice, using words that can't possibly communicate anything.

It simply wasn't possible for Remain to win.  The EU, despite its handful of good features, did too much harm to too many people, and the political establishment wasn't addressing any of that harm.  Corbyn didn't stop anybody from making a "passionate" case for Remain...it's just that, as I said above, the role the EU played in the UK simply made it impossible for anyone in the UK to make a passionate case for it.

Why don't you hold the Labour Right figures who refused for decades to oppose the EU austerity requirements responsible for the Leave victory?  Why don't you hold the Tories who helped impose those requirements responsible?  Why can't you see that the only chance that ever existed for stopping the Leave victory was a Labour consensus that the EU austerity policies needed to be returned and, if necessary, defied?

 

Aristotleded24

nicky wrote:
and Ken, are you serious in pretending that Corbyn did all he could to oppose “leave” in the referendum? That certainly wasn’t the view of 80% of Labour MPs or any number of commentators who described Corbyn’s efforts with words like half-hearted, begrudging, desultory and lip-service.

Who cares what these MPs think? Politicians generally tend to be lying, backstabbing, elitist pampered twits who are more into power games and live a life of priviledge, luxury, and comfort that their constituents cannot imagine. They are not in any way in touch with the day-to-day concerns and struggles of the constituents they claim to represent. Looking at Caucus endorsements, remember how the federal NDP Caucus endorsed Bill Blaikie in 2003? Remember how the Caucus again endorsed Mulcair in 2012? Remember how the Manitoba NDP Caucus endorsed Greg Selinger in 2015?

These politicians don't know what they are talking about. Any politician running for leadership who has the support of Caucus is a huge red flag for me.

Ken Burch

Aristotleded24 wrote:

nicky wrote:
and Ken, are you serious in pretending that Corbyn did all he could to oppose “leave” in the referendum? That certainly wasn’t the view of 80% of Labour MPs or any number of commentators who described Corbyn’s efforts with words like half-hearted, begrudging, desultory and lip-service.

Who cares what these MPs think? Politicians generally tend to be lying, backstabbing, elitist pampered twits who are more into power games and live a life of priviledge, luxury, and comfort that their constituents cannot imagine. They are not in any way in touch with the day-to-day concerns and struggles of the constituents they claim to represent. Looking at Caucus endorsements, remember how the federal NDP Caucus endorsed Bill Blaikie in 2003? Remember how the Caucus again endorsed Mulcair in 2012? Remember how the Manitoba NDP Caucus endorsed Greg Selinger in 2015?

These politicians don't know what they are talking about. Any politician running for leadership who has the support of Caucus is a huge red flag for me.

That, and it's in the interest of the anti-Corbyn cabal to blame Corbyn for a referendum defeat that was entirely and exclusively their fault, that was caused almost exclusively by the dismissive, arrogant campaign that the Tories and the Blairites ran in support of Remain, and to never let the referendum issue go just as they will never let the anti-Semitism slur go.  They know full well that if they move on, they would no longer have anything to verbally bludgeon Corbyn on.  They will have no means to stop him from consolidating personal popularity, unifying the party behind him, and bringing the years of austerity and perpetual war to an end.

 

JKR

josh wrote:

JKR wrote:

josh wrote:

Leave:  17.4 million.  The public was told that the vote would be respected and enacted by parliament.  

The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

That was never made a condition of the vote, and what does that even mean.  Beneficial to whom?  How is beneficial measured?

This refusal to accept the results of the vote is not only contemptuous of democracy, but dangerous.  How do you think a lot of the voters who voted leave will react if they get double crossed?  In their, justifiable, bitterness, they could very well make Tommy Robinson PM.  Is staying in the EU worth that?

I think the consensus position in the UK that should be followed is for the UK to leave the EU and to establish a customs unit and single market with the EU. I think that position would be easily ratified by a second referendum.

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
The public was also told that the UK would also sign a beneficial deal with the EU.

What, specifically, makes the deal currently on the table not beneficial?

I'm not asking whether MPs like it or voted for it.  I'm asking whether, just as an example, it includes increased tariffs on UK exports or some similar thing.

And it remains curious to me that the actual specific terms of the proposed deal don't seem to be part of the discussion the way you might expect.  To be honest, I really can't tell if MPs are voting on the deal itself, or if they feel they're voting on "Brexit" or "Theresa May" when they vote it down.

Aristotleded24

Mr. Magoo wrote:
And it remains curious to me

I'm sorry, I just have to laugh at this one. Was that a deliberate pun on your part? :D

NorthReport
NDPP

The Soft-Shoe Shufflers of the People's Vote Crowd

https://twitter.com/iarentspartacus/status/1109819152993263617

 

"France Protests AGAINST Neoliberalism."

"London Protests FOR Neoliberalism."

https://twitter.com/BungaCast/status/1109786076313538560

NorthReport

Another remarkable day in British politics, eh!

Brexit news - live: Three ministers resign as MPs vote to seize control over EU exit from May​

Cabinet members have warned a new election is nearing as Theresa May lost grip on the Brexit process during another fraught night in the House of Commons.

A series of top ministers raised the prospect of a third UK election in four years after MPs voted – by 329 votes to 302 – to take control of parliamentary process away from the prime minister so that they can set out how they think Britain should escape its political crisis.

The loss saw three remain-minded junior ministers quit their jobs so they could join forces with a cross-party drive that is now likely to push the government towards a longer delay to Britain’s departure and a much softer Brexit. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/

 

NorthReport

So is another election coming in Britain? If so, how many will that be in the last 5 years?

NorthReport

Who can forecast today what will happen tomorrow in UK politics!

The Conservative Party is assuring its own destruction over Brexit

It looks increasingly likely that both Brexit and no Brexit will lead to electoral wipeout

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-theresa-may-boris-johnson-gove-iain-duncan-smith-chequers-a8838816.html

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
So is another election coming in Britain? If so, how many will that be in the last 5 years?

From the quote that you posted a mere six minutes before asking this:

you forgot that you wrote:
A series of top ministers raised the prospect of a third UK election in four years

NorthReport

It must quite lucrative to be a poll clerk there these days!

What if they don't have the money to pay for another election?

Or being Tories maybe they just won't pay the election workers, eh!

cco

The last British election cost £140 million. Military spending, by contrast, is about £37 billion. I don't think a snap election is going to clean them out.

NorthReport

I think you are right!

nicky
NDPP

EU Neoliberalism: Let's Remain under its bootheel!

The New EU Copyright Law Closes the Lock on Free Speech Online (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/9qw3

"...It's almost surprising that the EU isn't trying to sell this law as the killer weapon in the ongoing War on Fake News, given its member-countries' use of that trendy advertising to justify increasing draconian speech restrictions - from the proposed end of anonymity in France to criminal charges for platforms that don't take down 'problematic' speech quickly enough in the UK. 

But then, EU leaders aren't actually elected, so they didn't have to sell the people anything. Like the monopolies Article 15 enables, the EU gives users no choice - accept this degraded deliberately hobbled, entropically eviscerated parody of the internet, or stay offline (by the time they're done with it, you'll hardly be able to tell the difference anyway)."

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