U.S. air strikes against Iraq

43 posts / 0 new
Last post
Unionist
U.S. air strikes against Iraq

*

Unionist

It's to help save civilians.

The ones who survived the previous U.S. air strikes.

 

Unionist

A bloodthirsty bastard weighs in:

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/08/08/john-baird-iraq-airsrikes-isis_n... Baird: Canada Fully Supports U.S. Airstrikes In Iraq[/url]

His drinking supply had obviously been running low.

 

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

Between Gaza, Iraq, and Russia, we can see how two sides are lining up. Let us hope there is less death than bloodlust would cry for.

josh

In an area of bad choices, I don't have a problem with this limited action. From all reports ISIS is seeking to either exterminate a particularly group or sell the women into slavery. Of course this all is the result of the chaos caused by the U.S invasion and occupation. But that shouldn't be an excuse for not taking limited action to try to prevent an extermination of a people. IMO.

Unionist

Josh, maybe "all reports" are accurate. But who appointed the U.S. the Cop of the World?

Oh, and perhaps you can remind me of the last time the U.S. and its allies committed naked aggression and murder without their new pretext, which is "saving civilians".

It used to be "combatting Marxist guerrillas", "defending our puppets against phoney invasion", etc. But it's saving the women and children which seems to resonate the best with focus groups.

Except when it's Gazan women and children.

The U.S. action - and the craven support by non-human regimes like those of Harper - must be condemned by progressive people everywhere. Sorry to be so harsh. But you and I are not in charge of the world.

 

josh

ISIS are a bunch of sick fanatics bent on exterminating a people. Tensor thousands of whom are hiding in mountains. The attacks are an effort to buy time to save these people. Along with airlifts of food and water. I don't care who does it, but the U.S. has at least indirect responsibility for creating the situation.

Unionist

No one seems to know how ISIS has made such powerful and rapid advances.

My theory: they have been stockpiling weapons of mass destruction.

josh wrote:
the U.S. has at least indirect responsibility for creating the situation

So... air strikes on Libya next?

 

KenS

For what its worth, I think that the real politics of power here is that no one expected that ISIS would be a match for the Kurdish pashmeerga.

As long as it was Iraqi Shia and Sunni's killing each other, the US would find the cosequent erosion of the fragile Iraqi state most unfortunate, but not something they wanted to take risks to stop.

But incursions on the de facto state of their #1 friend, the Kurds, that is another matter. So air strikes it will be.

Thats not a knock on the Kurds for the company they keep. Just facing the realities.

dedelste

Unionist, are you saying that because the U.S. is bad, leftists should oppose anything it does, even if its actions prevent genocide?

Unionist

dedelste wrote:

Unionist, are you saying that because the U.S. is bad, leftists should oppose anything it does, even if its actions prevent genocide?

No. I'm saying the U.S. has no business in Iraq. The U.S. has already committed genocide in Iraq. Do you need some reference material?

The U.S. doesn't give a flying fuck about preventing genocide, and it will never prevent genocide anywhere. It will only commit aggression and kill people in order to give itself and its puppets an advantage in a particular political context.

Actions of this sort are up to the United Nations and no one else (and even the U.N. can make mistakes - but that's its prerogative). Do you remember the lying hypocrites who claimed that "we" needed to invade Iraq in 2003 and kill Saddam Hussein because he was murdering his own people and had weapons of mass destruction? I remember that.

Leftists should oppose everything the U.S. does - when the U.S. commits aggression and violates international law. "Preventing genocide" - I call bullshit. Read "Manufacturing Consent".

 

NDPP

US Fighter Jets Bomb ISIS Artillery: 'Washington Only Interested in Splitting Iraq' (and vid)

http://youtu.be/0ZHiArPVBAg

William Engdahl interviewed on real US agenda

 

Sneaking Back into Iraq  -  by Justin Raimondo

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/08/07/sneaking-back-into-iraq/

"In the name of 'humanitarianism', no less!"

 

ISIS in Iraq: A Disaster Made in the USA  -  by Barry Gray

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/09/pers-a09.html

"The launching of a US air war against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) will only compound a catastrophe that has 'Made in the USA' stamped all over it.

The very same people who have set aflame the entire Middle East are preparing a similar disaster in Ukraine..."

also more bg on ISIS/ISIL and USA on 'Iraq' thread

Paladin1

josh wrote:
In an area of bad choices, I don't have a problem with this limited action. From all reports ISIS is seeking to either exterminate a particularly group or sell the women into slavery. Of course this all is the result of the chaos caused by the U.S invasion and occupation. But that shouldn't be an excuse for not taking limited action to try to prevent an extermination of a people. IMO.

 

I agree with you Josh.   I'm not naive enough to think the US isn't responsible for ISIS either indirectly or even directly but consigning thousands of people to death by having their heads cut off or whatever doesn't sit well with me.

 

Airstrikes are still going to kill human beings but I can only hope the there will be far less deaths of bystanders or innocents (non-ISIS I mean) than letting these guys run rampant.   We need to stop our western governments from giving birth to these nutbars.

Unionist

It's so easy to see the evil in past imperialist interventions.

The litmus test is always how we respond to the present ones. Gee do people ever get confused for a while.

U.S. intervention in Iraq must be condemned.

 

Godwin

Seeing evil is obviously a selective process when all paths lead to condemnation of the US but giving the monstrous transgressions of Islamic terrorists a pass.

Genocide, stonings and other brutal relics of feudal Islamist perversions are all ok with useful idiots as long as they can get a swipe in at the Great Satan.

What is the answer? Leave the various factions have at it and let Allah sort it out?

Godwin

Where is the commitment of political capital from 'world leaders', especially middle east nations to resolve some of these conflicts?

kropotkin1951

Godwin wrote:

Genocide, stonings and other brutal relics of feudal Islamist perversions are all ok with useful idiots as long as they can get a swipe in at the Great Satan. What is the answer? Leave the various factions have at it and let Allah sort it out?

If that is the answer to nasty Islamic theocracies then tell me why are there no airstrikes on Saudi Arabia or Kuwait? The ISIS government seems to be very similar. Why are all the foreign slaves in Saudi as well as the human rights of its citizens less of a concern? 

 

Godwin

They are not less of a concern to those who care about peace and a decent standard of living for all. Neither is Boku Haram or all the other opportunists who terrorize, murder and enslave in the name of religion or ideology but one must be able to differentiate between an expansionist agenda and the moral imperative of the right to protect.

NDPP

Godwin wrote:
Seeing evil is obviously a selective process when all paths lead to condemnation of the US but giving the monstrous transgressions of Islamic terrorists a pass. Genocide, stonings and other brutal relics of feudal Islamist perversions are all ok with useful idiots as long as they can get a swipe in at the Great Satan. What is the answer? Leave the various factions have at it and let Allah sort it out?

Actually, what apparently does gets a pass here is  vile Islamophobic screed such as this. Try substituting 'Jewish' for Islamic/Islamist and watch how quickly it's remarked. As for 'useful idiots' those especially useful are the ones that haven't realized that al cia-duh/ISIS/ISIL are creations of a distinctly western Dr Frankenstein, paid to serve his master's imperial ends, such as mass murdering Syrians, Iraqi Shiites or Christians, and have nothing whatsoever in common with the majority practice of Islam.

kropotkin1951

Godwin wrote:

one must be able to differentiate between an expansionist agenda and the moral imperative of the right to protect.

Haven't a clue what you mean they seem like very different concepts to me.  I suspect that we disagree fundamentally on when military action is ever a moral imperative. If the UN thinks it is necesary then maybe I might agree but even then I would have reservations and would want to see a very defined mandate. I disagree fundamentally with the idea that the POTUS has any moral imperative to bomb anyone so this is merely another rogue state action by the most heavily armed bully on the block.  I get it that these people are nasty but so far they have caused far less death and destruction than other foreign invaders into Iraq in the last twenty years.  Strangely though it seems that the ISIS campaign has Shocked and Awed the west.

Unionist

NDPP wrote:

Godwin wrote:
Seeing evil is obviously a selective process when all paths lead to condemnation of the US but giving the monstrous transgressions of Islamic terrorists a pass. Genocide, stonings and other brutal relics of feudal Islamist perversions are all ok with useful idiots as long as they can get a swipe in at the Great Satan. What is the answer? Leave the various factions have at it and let Allah sort it out?

Actually, what apparently does gets a pass here is  vile Islamophobic screed such as this.

Quote:
Try substituting 'Jewish' for Islamic/Islamist and watch how quickly it's remarked.

You don't have to do your Jewish conspiracy thing to make your point, NDPP. Your main point is 100% correct. Godwin is some Islamophobe racist pro-imperialist troll who showed his colours too quickly to fool anyone.

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

The Battle for Iraq by VICE News

Not bad watch all 5 if you want an interesting prespective on how this started. 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

double post

NDPP

Unionist wrote:

You don't have to do your Jewish conspiracy thing to make your point, NDPP. Your main point is 100% correct. Godwin is some Islamophobe racist pro-imperialist troll who showed his colours too quickly to fool anyone.

 

and yours as well U

NDPP

Don't necessarily support the conclusions but more useful information on how this started:

 

Do We Now Support Obama's Strike in Iraq?

http://cannonfire.blogspot.ca/2014/08/do-we-now-support-obamas-strikes-i...

"...We had hoped to use these Sunni warriors as a weapon against Bashar Assad's Alawite regime in Syria, and after that, the Shiite regime in Tehran. Although ISIS was an army of fanatics, they were supposed to be our fanatics, striking at our enemies. (Or at least Israel's enemies.)

 

The Islamic State Prepares For A Big Attack - Baghdad or Aleppo?

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/08/the-islamic-state-prepares-for-a-bi...

"...But Obama and the people informing him still believe that the Islamic State, which they partially helped to grow, is some cuddly homegrown Al-Qaeda that can be used to further this or that geo-political phantasy. They are wrong to believe this."

Godwin

Unionist wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Godwin wrote:
Seeing evil is obviously a selective process when all paths lead to condemnation of the US but giving the monstrous transgressions of Islamic terrorists a pass. Genocide, stonings and other brutal relics of feudal Islamist perversions are all ok with useful idiots as long as they can get a swipe in at the Great Satan. What is the answer? Leave the various factions have at it and let Allah sort it out?

Actually, what apparently does gets a pass here is  vile Islamophobic screed such as this.

Quote:
Try substituting 'Jewish' for Islamic/Islamist and watch how quickly it's remarked.

You don't have to do your Jewish conspiracy thing to make your point, NDPP. Your main point is 100% correct. Godwin is some Islamophobe racist pro-imperialist troll who showed his colours too quickly to fool anyone.

 

Nope. ISIS is a collection of nutters who use Islam as a ruse to embrace medieval perversions like stonings and enforced sexual mutilation of women as a method of instilling fear while they plot their Caliphate. The CBC news today mentions foreign fighters with ISIS number among them hundreds of french and British, 70 Americans and 30Canadians.

it really doesnt have anything to do with Islam. More to do with the radicalisation of disaffected youth.

NDPP

Thanks for the clarification Godwin..

DaveW

the only good news out of the Mideast these days is that the Kurds, among the great losers of the imperial divvying of the Middle East after the Treaty of Versailles, then split among 4-5 authoritarian states, are now giving a real battle to ISIS, which has never faced an organized national Army

and with their hands freed by the collapse of the Iraqi state and army, Kurds will probably become independent by the end of the year; the Iraq constitution called for a referendum on that by 2007, but of course Maliki squelched it -- too late now, Baghdad is powerless to control its territory

the Kurds form a clearly coherent, organized, prosperous electoral democracy, and instead of beating up their minorities, they have been giving them refuge, Christians and Shiites alike

Long live free Kurdistan.

 

 

Unionist

DaveW wrote:

and with their hands freed by the collapse of the Iraqi state and army, Kurds will probably become independent by the end of the year; the Iraq constitution called for a referendum on that by 2007, but of course Maliki squelched it -- too late now, Baghdad is powerless to control its territory

Of course, that will require splitting up and re-defining Iran, Syria, and Turkey as well, right?

After that, Khalistan.

More popcorn, please!

 

montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

In order to prevent more military action, the U.S. should bomb itself.

DaveW

no actually, Unionist, Turkey has  changed its position, and its PM noted earlier this year that an independent Kurdistan would not be a cause for Turkish alarm .... no reason for all regional States to fracture because Iraq did

like Yugoslavia, Iraq  was made of constituent parts that likely only a strongman could hold together long-term; as soon as some constituents see the exit door, a la Croatia 1991, they are outta there... ditto Kurdistan

 

 

MegB

Godwin, you seen to have stumbled into the wrong place. This board is for progressives, which you obviously are not. Buh-bye.

josh

A rescue effort has freed 20,000 of the Yazidi refugees trapped on a mountain in northern Iraq and surrounded by ISIS forces, CNN reports, but thousands remain trapped with limited food and water supplies.

As the U.S. military hit ISIS targets on Sunday, the Kurdish military was able to reach some the Yazidi Iraquis and help them board trucks. They were then taken to the Syrian border town of Hasaka, Iraqi Ministry of Human Rights spokesman Kamil Amin told CNN.

From Hasaka they were taken to the Iraqi border city of Dohuk, where they were given shelter.

Between 30,000 and 40,000 Yazidis remain on Mount Sinjar, where they fled after ISIS attacks last weekend. The U.S. military is airdropping food and water to the Yazidis after President Barack Obama announced the humanitarian effort late last week.

 

http://www.aina.org/news/20140811131421.htm

Paladin1

josh wrote:

A rescue effort has freed 20,000 of the Yazidi refugees trapped on a mountain in northern Iraq and surrounded by ISIS forces, CNN reports, but thousands remain trapped with limited food and water supplies.

As the U.S. military hit ISIS targets on Sunday, the Kurdish military was able to reach some the Yazidi Iraquis and help them board trucks. They were then taken to the Syrian border town of Hasaka, Iraqi Ministry of Human Rights spokesman Kamil Amin told CNN.

From Hasaka they were taken to the Iraqi border city of Dohuk, where they were given shelter.

Between 30,000 and 40,000 Yazidis remain on Mount Sinjar, where they fled after ISIS attacks last weekend. The U.S. military is airdropping food and water to the Yazidis after President Barack Obama announced the humanitarian effort late last week.

 

">http://www.aina.org/news/20140811131421.htm

 

I'm sure KBR is making a lot of money off those humanitarian meals.

Paladin1

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraq-crisis-islamic-...

 

Quote:
Iraq crisis: Islamic militants 'buried alive Yazidi women and children in attack that killed 500'

 

Quote:
A further 300 Yazidi women have been kidnapped as slaves

NDPP

Why Obama is Bombing the Caliph  -  by Pepe Escobar

http://rt.com/op-edge/179716-why-obama-bomb-caliph/

"This is the way the multi-million dollar Global War on Terror (GWOT) ends: not with a bang, but with a bigger bang.

As for the much peddled Washington myth of 'good' and 'bad' jihadists, the Caliphate also exploded it. Virtually every jihadi Washington - and Riyadh weaponized and trained in Jordan and in the Turkey-Syria border is now among the Caliph's goons, wallowing in cash raised from oil smuggling, hardcore blackmail and 'donations', and weaponized to their teeth after looting four Iraqi divisions and a Syrian brigade.

As for the GWOT gift, it will keep on giving in a bigger and bigger bang..."

 

Canada To Send Cargo Planes, 30 Military Personnel to Shuttle Weapons to Kurdish Forces in Iraq

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=37a_1408141303

"Canada is committing two cargo planes to move military supplies into northern Iraq..."

NDPP

Obama Lies - There Never Was 'A Siege of Mount Sinjar'

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/08/obama-lies-never-was-a-siege-of-mou...

"...The only reason Obama sent troops and jets to the area was to protect the city of Erbil with its CIA station, the international airport and the local headquarters of various 'western' oil companies.

When US jets started bombing a few ISIS positions near Erbil most Yazidis were already safe and on their way out of the mountains.

But that good dead was done by the socialists from the PKK and YPG. The US State Department officially designates the PKK as a 'terrorist group' for its fight against the Turkish state.

But that is a story Obama does not want to tell. He needs an excuse to reintroduce US forces back into Iraq, to secure the oil US companies are pumping from there and to pressure for regime change in Baghdad..."

Unionist

josh, on August 5 wrote:
ISIS are a bunch of sick fanatics bent on exterminating a people. Tensor thousands of whom are hiding in mountains. The attacks are an effort to buy time to save these people. Along with airlifts of food and water. I don't care who does it, but the U.S. has at least indirect responsibility for creating the situation.

Now that our murderous regime is joining in your imperialist government's war effort by sending troops to Iraq, I was wondering whether you still maintained your apparent support for whoever wipes out Washington's enemy-of-the-month.

Sorry to sound bitter, but after years of reading and appreciating your posts, I'm still rankled by this one. Is that all it takes - some horror stories, true or false - to make us forget who are the worst enemies the world faces today??

 

josh

I never supported, and do not support, sending troops to Iraq. I did support, and still support, air strikes, not as a matter of course, but where necessary to save civilians whose lives are endangered by ISIL and where it can be useful in stopping ISIL's advance on key cities.

NDPP

ISIS Atrocities and US Imperialism  -  by Patrick White

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/04/pers-s04.html

"Now the late US ally against Assad is being utilized to provide one last service for American imperialism. The crimes of ISIS are to be the pretext for a massive escalation of the US military intervention in the Middle East, including stepped-up bombing in Iraq and its eventual extension into Syria, and the reintroduction of US troops on an increasing scale..."

see also:

US Forms Ten-Nation Coalition To Escalate War in Iraq, Syria

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/09/06/isis-s06.html

"US Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel met on the sidelines of the NATO summit in Wales with their counterparts from Australia, Britain, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Poland and Turkey.

Meanwhile, in an announcement that underscores the imperialist interest...BP said Thursday that it had reached agreement with the Iraqi government to extend its lease on the enormous Rumalia oil field, the second largest in the world..."

 

NorthReport

My hunch is Obama is not the only one

ISIS and the coalition of the unwilling

One is tempted to think that Obama is not really all that worried about ISIS as a strategic threat. One is further tempted to speculate that he has learned not to care too much about what happens in the Middle East any more. 

 

http://www.straight.com/news/732511/gwynne-dyer-isis-and-coalition-unwil...

NorthReport
NorthReport

Doubt cast over seniority of Isis leader killed by US special forces in Syria raid

  • Defense secretary hails death of Abu Sayyaf as ‘significant blow’
  • Isis specialist says man killed was ‘very close’ to chief spokesman

The name Abu Sayyaf has not been on lists of top-line Isis leaders and he is not known to have had a price put on his head for his death or capture – unlike at least 10 other men who form the nucleus of the group’s leadership. His lack of profile led to speculation on Saturday among Iraqi officials and western diplomats in the region that the target of the raid may have been a more senior figure.

“He was very close to Adnani,” said a Baghdad-based specialist on Isis, Hisham al-Hashimi, referring to the chief spokesman of the group, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani. “They were together often.”

US defence officials said Sayyaf was an instrumental money man, who had raised money through gas and oil sales. Until last July, Isis had been yielding at least $1m per day from illicit sales of oil to Turkish and Syrian buyers.

However, a US-led air campaign has destroyed or damaged many of the crude refineries that Isis was using in the Syrian deserts, not far from the scene of Friday’s raid near the eastern city of Deir el-Zour.

Officials in Washington portrayed the raid as a success, but disclosed nothing more about the value of its apparent target.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/16/isis-leader-killed-us-speci...