Is the US and its NATO "allies" planning to attack Russia and start World War III?

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kropotkin1951

Rah Rah NATO Here is a song for you guys to sing along to. What I love is that this song never gets old because they keep bringing democracy to the same countries over and over and over again. When will those pesky people ever understand that American capitalism is a synonym for democracy. 

From the Halls of Montezuma
 To the shores of Tripoli;
 We fight our country's battles
 In the air, on land, and sea;
 First to fight for right and freedom
 And to keep our honor clean;
 We are proud to claim the title
 Of United States Marines

Of course in the old days they were crass but the new American imperialists are even more full of themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

I used to sing that shit as a kid. Even had dual citizen friends later on who spoke of joining the US Marines. Hard to believe.

Of course, I would set up my G.I. JOE by the creek in an action pose and blow fukcing holes in him with a BB gun. But every kid with access to a weapon did that sort of thing back in the day. It didn't mean anything political. Just that you liked to blow things up real good. We'd all be arrested as children for terrorism now. lol.

Before that there was the Mighy Mo cannon in the hallway of the house. The cat developed excellent skills avoiding high velocity projectiles fired at close range. And I learned about ballistics, aiming ahead of a moving target, and so on. Invaluable, really.

Here, kitty, kitty...

NDPP

Prof Stephen Cohen: Obama Admin Determined to Cripple Trump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIz7rFG5aTY

"Our relationship with Russia is worse than it's been since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. I conclude that we got where we are today, in a new and more dangerous cold war, primarily because of American policy. Not primarily because of Russian policy."

 

Kremlin: New Sanctions Underline Obama Administration's 'Unpredictable & Aggressive Foreign Policy' (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/news/372191-kremlin-obama-administration-sanctions/

"In our point of view such actions of the current US administration are a manifestation of an unpredictable and even aggressive foreign policy. We regret the fact that this decision was taken by the US administration and President Obama personally. As I said before, we consider this decision and these sanctions unjustified and illegal under international law."

 

NDPP

Russian Foreign Minister Suggests Kicking 35 US Diplomats Out of Russia

http://cbc.ca/news/world/russian-minister-suggests-expelling-u-s-diploma...

"Thirty-five Russian diplomats were ordered to leave the US in 72 hours."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Regarding the Obama baby throwing his toys out of the pram; one commentator just noted the obvious. Just let them have their temper tantrum and tire themselves out. Someone has to be the adult in the room.

I'm hoping that the Putin admin will do something small as retaliation, e.g., that they will expel 35 US diplomats ... STARTING on Feb 1, 2017, etc. (after Trump's inaguration and giving the latter enough time to remedy Obama's petulant show) and the new admin will simply belay the order once the Obama infant is nestled all snug in a comfortable golf course.

What a shit show. Americans who follow this stuff must be humiliated by the conduct of their POTUS. And the new guy could well be worse.

Of course, they say that every country gets the leadership they deserve.

Tongue out

iyraste1313

I include this not because I am convinced....but expert feedback is always helpful! if of course this makes it through the Babble moderator...pretty scary if true!

 

Did a Radio Electronic Attack down Russia TU-154 December 25, 2016?

December 28, 2016 by Steven DeNoon 3 Comments

The evidence is starting to come in and though the Kremlin has not made an official announcement as to the cause of the crash of Russia’s military passenger plane the TU-154 off the coast of Sochi – it is starting to look more and more like an act of War according to some experts. We recently listened to a Russian talk show where the guest was a Russian Reserve Colonel, he was the first to suggest that the plane was downed intentionally. The Colonel pointed out that the Pilot had time to contact the flight tower to report problems but failed to do so, he noted that the plane has 3 engines and could still fly with only two, many other points he made that got my curiosity up.

Today Pravda reported according to different experts that the fateful flight may have been downed by a “Radio Electronic Attack” . The article addressed all the evidence that had come to light as of the publication of this article. Life News reported that the flight data recorder had the cockpit crews final words on it: “the flaps, damn it!” followed by “Commander, we’re going down!” according to Life News, citing its source. These words add to the fact that a witness standing on the shore stated that she could hear the engines of the jet then suddenly that stopped followed by a huge splash sound, no doubt the fuselage hitting the Black Sea, the witness testimony was noted in the online French news source; La Cause Du Peuple. This French source also noted:

We saw in our article It’s the CIA that caused the catastrophic fall of the Russian plane in the Black Sea, that this fall is due to a radio-electronic attack commissioned by the CIA. According to the Russian expert Alexander Artamonov, the executants could be French ships that were present in the Black Sea.

Pravada used several experts that noted the fact all engines stopped simultaneously, the flaps were locked and what the public was told the plane turned 180 degrees was not true. Other experts interviewed by Pravda cited the crew did not contact the air-traffic controllers, nor did anyone try to use a cell phone but had time to put on life jackets. All the evidence seem to point to a Radio Electronic Attack.

So the crew had time to warn them, but not the controller. It fits into the electronic version of the attack. But this is not terrorism, it is a war with NATO. Pravada.ru

bekayne

NDPP wrote:

Prof Stephen Cohen: Obama Admin Determined to Cripple Trump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIz7rFG5aTY

"Our relationship with Russia is worse than it's been since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. I conclude that we got where we are today, in a new and more dangerous cold war, primarily because of American policy. Not primarily because of Russian policy."

Was Stephen Cohen hibernating during the early 1980s? 

 

6079_Smith_W

iyraste1313 wrote:

Did a Radio Electronic Attack down Russia TU-154 December 25, 2016?

Like this nonsense is any surprise.

josh

bekayne wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Prof Stephen Cohen: Obama Admin Determined to Cripple Trump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIz7rFG5aTY

"Our relationship with Russia is worse than it's been since the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. I conclude that we got where we are today, in a new and more dangerous cold war, primarily because of American policy. Not primarily because of Russian policy."

Was Stephen Cohen hibernating during the early 1980s? 

 

Well he only has to wait for three weeks, when Russia has their man in the White House, and everything will be just hunky dory.

NDPP

edit

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

bekayne wrote:
Was Stephen Cohen hibernating during the early 1980s?

Stephen Cohen was an important American "Russia expert" at that time, his advice was sought out by the highest authorities in the USA, and the current character assassination was the opposite of how the MSM treated him then. 

Part of the current shrill Russophobia is exactly how American experts on Russia that don't parrot the official line, like Stephen Cohen, have been virtually black-listed. He has made the point many times that the current lack of public debate makes the present much more dangerous than it was in many junctures in the past (like the Reagan 80's, eg).

 

iyraste1313

Like this nonsense is any surprise.....

I wonder what exactly are you referring to...that a number of militaries are not testing possibly experimenting with electromagnetic weaponry?

That some in the Russian military may think that this is what occurred? That a mechanical failure highly unlikely with all engines failing at once?

That there was no bomb explosion so some other explanation is in order?

What is nonsense is your attempts to censure investigations and theories in these pages under the rubro of course of being politically incorrect...... 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

ikosmos wrote:

bekayne wrote:
Was Stephen Cohen hibernating during the early 1980s?

Stephen Cohen was an important American "Russia expert" at that time, his advice was sought out by the highest authorities in the USA, and the current character assassination was the opposite of how the MSM treated him then. 

I have watched Prof. Cohen on television and read his essays in newspapers and magazines, then the internet, since the 80s. I have always considered his opinions to be based on a solid understanding of Russian politics and society, and I have great respect for his ideas. It is a cheap shot to bash a sincere and intelligent scholar like Prof. Cohen.

6079_Smith_W

I'm talking about exploiting a tragedy with zero evidence to score political points.

Mr. Magoo

I love how conspiracy theories can just assume that technologies "must" exist, and "must" work as imagined.

k00K:  The World Trade Center was destroyed by "nano-thermite.

Someone else:  Uh, does "nano-thermite" actually exist?

k00K:  Duh!  If it didn't exist, how could it have brought down the twin towers?  Educate yourself!

NDPP

6079_Smith_W wrote:

I'm talking about exploiting a tragedy with zero evidence to score political points.

You do it all the time ...

6079_Smith_W

Nice try NDPP. But no, I don't.

Fact is, they did this with the last big air disaster, which actually was shot down by trigger happy rebels. So they had a reason to try and pretend it wasn't them when one of their leaders claimed it was just a plane filled with dead bodies and that no one actually was killed.

In this case, it is just their propaganda machine using anything they can as a smear, even if it means exploiting the deaths of one of their greatest cultural institutions.

NDPP

Trump Questions Claim of Russia Hacking DNC, Says He 'Knows Things Other People Don't'

http://rt.com/usa/372400-trump-doubts-russia-hacking

"US President-elect Donald Trump said it was possible 'somebody else' compromised the Democratic campaign servers, as he spoke to reporters on New Year's Eve, adding that he will reveal some previously undisclosed facts in the coming days. 'You wil find out Tuesday or Wednesday..."

6079_Smith_W

Right. Because he's such an inlelligent, insightful guy with no ulterior motive at all. He's just waiting for the proof to arrive by diplomatic courier, I am sure. 

And I guess we are just back to the random shuffle again because this has nothing to do with the impending invasion that we have been waiting for for years now. 

Not that it matters, because we're all Russia all the time now. Nice work boys.

josh

NDPP wrote:

Trump Questions Claim of Russia Hacking DNC, Says He 'Knows Things Other People Don't'

http://rt.com/usa/372400-trump-doubts-russia-hacking

"US President-elect Donald Trump said it was possible 'somebody else' compromised the Democratic campaign servers, as he spoke to reporters on New Year's Eve, adding that he will reveal some previously undisclosed facts in the coming days. 'You wil find out Tuesday or Wednesday..."

I'm sure he does know. Such as how the Russians are blackmailing him. Oops. I didn't say that.

NDPP

Strong Russia, Fake News  -  by Patrick Armstrong

https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2016/12/30/strong-russia-fake-news/

"The combination of two remarks by Russian President Putin and a twitter from US President-elect Trump set off a fake news storm in what should be properly called the Fake Stream Media. This from Canada's National Post will serve as an example...

Well the headline does not accurately quote Putin and the piece makes no mention of US President Obama's trillion dollar nuclear plan announced a few months ago.

What he is saying is that if you attack Russia, you will lose the war. And he's right. It wasn't true 20 years ago, it was arguable 10 years ago, but today, for anyone who can see reality rather than exceptionalist fantasies, it is true.

If you attack Russia, you will lose the war..."

6079_Smith_W

The piece does mention the trillion dollars the Pentagon is planning to spend. It is in paragraph 19.

 

kropotkin1951

6079_Smith_W wrote:

The piece does mention the trillion dollars the Pentagon is planning to spend. It is in paragraph 19.

Yes they mention the PENTAGON program not the Obama program which is what it is called since he okayed it. The National Post just omitted the relevant players in an article about Trump and Putin. Of course they are likely right anyways and it is a Pentagon program and Trump like his predecessors or his opponents would have will get in line with what the real rulers want.

6079_Smith_W

Who gives direction to the pentagon? Who has been giving that direction for the past eight years? 

Patrick Armstong didn't say the article failed to state the obvious - that the president of the U.S. is commander in chief; He claims there is "no mention" of the nuclear plan. That is not true.

 

kropotkin1951

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Who gives direction to the pentagon? Who has been giving that direction for the past eight years? 

Herein lies the center core of your confusion. You think the POTUS directs the Pentagon not the way it actually works. Obama has been a good and obedient President ensuring that taxpayers money has been pumped into the financial markets in record numbers and the perpetual war economy including the new nuclear arms race has continued on unabated. It seems to me that is the only thing that the American ruling oligarchy agrees on. All the candidates they backed will listen to their "advise." Hilary would have been the easiest to control out of her Bernie and Donald. Donald is still  and open book but given the people he has chosen for cabinet it is clear that his wing of the oligarchy will also agree with pumping money to corporations and continuing the war economy.

Of course sometimes from the cheap seats it's hard to tell who is pulling the strings but I can certainly see that Obama like his predecessors is the puppet not the puppeteer. I think Trump is happy to play at being boss so I expect the real rulers will still be firmly in control.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

That is not how the Pentagon or DoD budget is planed, made or enacted.  (nice rant though)

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

That is not how the Pentagon or DoD budget is planed, made or enacted.  (nice rant though)

Is it not true that the high ranking soldiers, bureaucrats, and politicians who do the DoD budget planning are almost always past and/or future employees of the defence contractors who build the weapons systems? Do you not think that this fact is more important to them than who is the current occupant of the oval office?

Edzell Edzell's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Rah Rah NATO Here is a song for you guys to sing along to. What I love is that this song never gets old because they keep bringing democracy to the same countries over and over and over again. When will those pesky people ever understand that American capitalism is a synonym for democracy. 

From the Halls of Montezuma
 To the shores of Tripoli;
 We fight our country's battles
 In the air, on land, and sea;
 First to fight for right and freedom
 And to keep our honor clean;
 We are proud to claim the title
 Of United States Marines

Of course in the old days they were crass but the new American imperialists are even more full of themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

As kids we sang that too, in a different country and with much different words :)

NDPP

US Senators Vow To Push For Stronger Sanctions Against Russia During Georgia Visit (and vid)

http://www.onenewspage.com/video/20170101/6421711/US-Senators-Vow-to-Pus...

"They attacked the United States of America. The hacking was an attack and should be treated that way. We hope to make 2017 a year of offence."

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Who gives direction to the pentagon? Who has been giving that direction for the past eight years? 

Herein lies the center core of your confusion. You think the POTUS directs the Pentagon not the way it actually works. Obama has been a good and obedient President ensuring that taxpayers money has been pumped into the financial markets in record numbers and the perpetual war economy including the new nuclear arms race has continued on unabated. It seems to me that is the only thing that the American ruling oligarchy agrees on. All the candidates they backed will listen to their "advise." Hilary would have been the easiest to control out of her Bernie and Donald. Donald is still  and open book but given the people he has chosen for cabinet it is clear that his wing of the oligarchy will also agree with pumping money to corporations and continuing the war economy.

Of course sometimes from the cheap seats it's hard to tell who is pulling the strings but I can certainly see that Obama like his predecessors is the puppet not the puppeteer. I think Trump is happy to play at being boss so I expect the real rulers will still be firmly in control.

Gee, and nice fancy footwork too.

I didn't say anything about any of that. All I said was the guy claimed something was not in the article, when in fact it was there.

You raised Obama's name and I said that was obvious and beside the point. Not sure where you are going now, but I'm not following, as my point is made.

So again, for good measure. The guy said the trillion dollar (over 30 years) nuclear plan was not mentioned in the article. But it was mentioned in the article.So he either missed it, or was hoping no one would notice he was not telling the truth.

 

 

kropotkin1951

He did not say that. You always read into everything you read. He said the Obama plan was not in the article. Try reading for full comprehension not just to find little things to nit pick at with every article that does not toe the NATO line that you so furiously defend.

6079_Smith_W

kropotkin1951 wrote:

 He said the Obama plan was not in the article. Try reading for full comprehension

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Herein lies the center core of your confusion. You think the POTUS directs the Pentagon not the way it actually works.

Look man, make up your mind, or better still, drop it. I am done with this one.

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

That is not how the Pentagon or DoD budget is planed, made or enacted.  (nice rant though)

Is it not true that the high ranking soldiers, bureaucrats, and politicians who do the DoD budget planning are almost always past and/or future employees of the defence contractors who build the weapons systems? Do you not think that this fact is more important to them than who is the current occupant of the oval office?

True for the most part but it's not a free spending spree for anything they want like your betraying it. There still has to be justification and congressional approval for the expenditure of the budget. You do realize 80% of the defense budget goes toward pay, personnel support (soldiers and their families health care), fuel, support and parts for existing weapons systems and base operating costs. I got to deal with some of it during my 20 years in the army: you guys are being waaaay to simplistic. The Executive branch (President's office) submits the budget; the Legislative branch (Congress) approves it. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Political Insanity: Outgoing President Obama’s “Operation Atlantic Resolve” against Russia: US Sends 3,600 Tanks Against Russia – Massive NATO Deployment Underway

... which is the topic for which this thread was started ...

Quote:
The NATO war preparation against Russia, ‘Operation Atlantic Resolve’, is in full swing. 2,000 US tanks will be sent in coming days from Germany to Eastern Europe, and 1,600 US tanks is deployed to storage facilities in the Netherlands. At the same time, NATO countries are sending thousands of soldiers in to Russian borders.

According to US Army Europe, 4,000 troops and 2,000 tanks will arrive in three US transport ships to Germany next weekend. From Bremerhaven, US troops and huge amount of military material, will be transported to Poland and other countries in Central and Eastern Europe.

USA is sending to Russian borders 3rd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division. Overall, more than 2,500 pieces of cargo are shipped to Germany, where those will be unloaded in the period January 6-8. US military material and troops will continue to Poland by rail and military convoy’s. Massive US military deployment should be ready by January 20.

Give that "lame duck" credit. He may just go out with a bang. An enormous, global "bang".

Hail to the Chief!

 

NDPP

The New Red Scare

http://harpers.org/archive/2016/12/the-new-red-scare/1/

"Reviving the art of threat inflation..."

NDPP

'It's Time To Stop Hugging Russian Bear' - Former NATO Commander

https://youtu.be/3HYMtWZ1bLI

NATO builds up forces along Russian border as part of block's operations

 

Witch-Hunt: Frenzy Over Potential "Russian Hacking' Seizes Europe

https://youtu.be/wrVSJ18ovsw

The frenzy surrounding Russian hackers allegedly meddling in other countries' internal affairs has reached Europe

 

100s More Tanks Arrive in Europe to Keep 'Peace & Freedom' at Russian Borders (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/373016-us-tanks-hardware-europe

Another shipload of American military hardware has arrived at the German port of Bremerhaven. The delivery of US Abrams tanks, Paladin artillery and Bradley fighting vehicles mark a new phase of Operation Atlantic Resolve. Over the last few days 2,800 pieces of military hardware and 4,000 troops have arrived at the port.

US Air Force Lieutenant General Timothy Ray declared: 'Let me be clear: This is one part of our efforts to deter Russian aggression.

Russia has long condemned NATO's activities along its borders as hostile and potentially threatening national security. Moscow has responded by stationing its most modern weaponry and armaments on its western borders."

kropotkin1951

This reminds me of the great power strategies just before WWI.  Line up armies on both sides of a border and what will be the trigger point? I hope we don't see Ukrainian nationalist security types assassinating any of the Russian elite in a move to emulate Gavrilo Princip.

6079_Smith_W

I hear you k, and I am concerned. But I htink the current situation bears a closer resemblance to more recent times. We are nowhere near where we were when Germany had cruise missiles pointed at their own country in case of an invasion. The difference between now, and 1914 is that then no one expected anything would come of it, never mind the end of the world.

If there is any upside to our current way of looking at things, it is that we are overestimating the potential for anything to turn into a flashpoint. In reality, I see far more danger in those areas where it is unexpected, like Trump's overture to Taiwan.

NDPP

Birds of a Feather...

 

Sen McCain Says Putin is Undermining World Order

https://youtu.be/_beYXTfeQaQ

"World order must be maintained!"

Call To Action: Extend Government Military Mission To Ukraine

http://ucc.ca/2016/12/19/call-to-action-extend-government-military-train...

iyraste1313

On Sunday, directly on the heels of Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen’s controversial meeting with U.S. lawmakers in Houston, a state-run Chinese tabloid ran an editorial warning that China would “take revenge” if the U.S. abandoned its one-China policy.

“Trump is yet to be inaugurated, and there is no need for Beijing to sacrifice bilateral ties for the sake of Taiwan,” writes the Global Times. “But in case he tears up the one-China policy after taking office, the mainland is prepared.”

The editorial goes on to state that “Beijing would rather break ties with the US if necessary” and that continuing collaboration between U.S. and Taiwanese officials will “ruin Sino-US relations and destabilize the entire Asia-Pacific region.”

Later in the piece, however, the Times discards pretense and assumes a more threatening tone:

If Trump reneges on the one-China policy after taking office, the Chinese people will demand the government to take revenge. There is no room for bargaining.

Obama vs. trump...different strategies for war? Starting with trade war?

 

re Sen McCain Says Putin is Undermining World Order....keep in mind that he is a bought and paid for agent of the CIA (evidence available if requested)...this is a direct threat by the CIA!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

One columnist looked at recent US machinations wrt Russia and China and suggested US strategy to be one of "Nixon in China" ... only this time, they try to break Russia away from China rather than break China away from Russia.

And Trump, with his key advisor Henry Kissenger (in the wings), may be just the man to do that.

So they think.

NDPP

US Tanks and Soldiers in Poland Pose Threat To Russia - Kremlin

https://www.rt.com/news/373492-peskov-kremlin-usa-tanks/

"Russia sees the deployment of US tanks and other military vehicles, along with army personnel, as a threat to its national security and interests, Kremlin press secretary Dmitry Peskov said.

'We see this as a threat. These actions pose a threat to our interests and security,' Peskov told journalists on Thursday, stressing 'especially when a third country is beefing up its military presence along our borders with Europe.'

'And this is not even a European country,' he added.

NATO describes the buildup along Russia's borders as a defensive measure justified by Moscow's alleged involvement in the UKrainian crisis.

Peskov stressed that 'any country may and will take a build-up of foreign military presence along its borders negatively. 

'This is exactly how we take it,' Peskov said."

 

For perspective, consider a Russian military buildup along the Canadian border with USA..

Edzell Edzell's picture

NDPP wrote:
For perspective, consider a Russian military buildup along the Canadian border with USA.
Perspective ??? Good grief.

Mr. Magoo

Quote:
For perspective, consider a Russian military buildup along the Canadian border with USA..

What did we ever do to the USA that would make them wish to be a partner in this?  That should be the first question.

Kaspar Hauser

If there is any upside to our current way of looking at things, it is that we are overestimating the potential for anything to turn into a flashpoint. In reality, I see far more danger in those areas where it is unexpected, like Trump's overture to Taiwan.

The likelihood of nuclear war resulting from an American confrontation with China and/or North Korea in the next few years seems staggeringly high.

Sean in Ottawa

Kaspar Hauser wrote:

If there is any upside to our current way of looking at things, it is that we are overestimating the potential for anything to turn into a flashpoint. In reality, I see far more danger in those areas where it is unexpected, like Trump's overture to Taiwan.

The likelihood of nuclear war resulting from an American confrontation with China and/or North Korea in the next few years seems staggeringly high.

There are in fact greater dangers where people take things for granted. And this is why some China watchers can be concerned.

The US may think it can get away with some of these things because of the integration of the global economy -- but that may not be the case.

Also China is facing some difficulties in finance -- its ability to dump US dollars has been somewhat reduced so economic revenge is not as easy.

The strategic situation may be seen by the US as positioning whereas by the Chinese it is basic survival.

There are reasons to be worried that both China and the Us could box themselves into a conflict neither wants. Familiar?

US could mishandle Russia in a similar way and take for granted all could be well when it is not.

The US has an impression of itself that is shared by a few key allies but this i not how the rest of the world looks at it and they are a lot more threatening than they are willing to admit.